Do you fear an Orwellian society coming about?

[TheNoNamedOne]

Orwell's book "1984" depicted a world in which the movement of the citizenry was constantly monitored. At one point after realizing the system in which society was set up was oppression despite the propoganda from the government, the protagonist finally felt compelled to rebell against it. But with cameras and monitors virtually everywhere he found it impossible to do so successfuly.

In the U.S., our country was born of rebellion, and that was made easier due to the remoteness from the government of England. Intelligence was hard to have as our rebels had plenty of frontier space to meneuver and weaken the government forces.

However, if the U.S. government were to ever fall under a dictatorship as more freedoms are eroded through legislature or executive order, that ability to rebel could be seriously hampered if cameras and monitors to track the citizenry were well in place.

Do you accept and think it is a good thing that government surveillance of society is getting better and better and more intrusive when if they put forth the reason that it is for security? After all, crime and murders have been solved or foiled through surveilance cameras. Why not increase them so that we are under the microscope even more?

Perhaps the right to privacy is our bigger enemy and we should give that up?

[dk]

Surveilance is one thing, but it can be taken too far.

Yeah, I really believe it's only a matter of time. There's a lot of similarities between the novel 1984 and what's already going on. You could teach a whole college course just on 1984 if you wanted to, but I'd probably group that in with Brave New World.

The details are a little foggy for me at the moment though. I haven't read 1984 again in probably 3 years.

[silviasichigo]

Die Hard 4.0 is a poor example of the book 1984 but it just goes to show what we are becoming as a country. And it was a Kick ass movie.

[Asshat]

Do you accept and think it is a good thing that government surveillance of society is getting better and better and more intrusive when if they put forth the reason that it is for security? After all, crime and murders have been solved or foiled through surveilance cameras. Why not increase them so that we are under the microscope even more?

Perhaps the right to privacy is our bigger enemy and we should give that up?

Fear. We live in fear and we need our government to protect us from our sworn enemies. The Patriot Act is an excellent example of that as well as a record number of signing orders. (if that is the correct term)

We have hoards of Gov. employees monitoring every aspect of our lives, from the telephone, the computer, to the library.

Welcome to 1984. Yes, I fear our government more than our enemies.

[Bones]

To be perfectly honest, I could care less. Everyone is so worried about this surveillance thing, but most normal people have nothing to fear from any of this.

What I find amusing is that so many people have set themselves up to monitored and have never realized it. Social Security number, library cards, credit/debit cards, cable tv (if you have box for premium services), cell phones, GPS devices, the list is endless.

Is this news to anyone?????:rolleyes:

Anyone caught doing something illegal from this kind of surveillance, deserves to be caught, and deserves no sympathy from anybody.

For the rest of us, we have nothing to fear or complain about. It's the price you have to pay for wanting to play with all of the latest electronic gadgets, that this society just can not seem to get enough of.

NBTP

[dk]

You haven't read 1984 NBTP?

[Bones]

quote:

Originally posted by the new ruler of Canada:You haven't read 1984 NBTP?

Sure I have dk, as well as Animal Farm, and some of his other works. Watched a movie some time ago, I believe it was called "Equalibrium", which was also disturbing.

I just do not think that having the government look over my shoulder is such a big deal. What? They going to arrest me for reading "Dilbert" on-line?

My whole point in my response was, with all of the new technological developments these days, as it relates to new gadgets, why are so many people surprised (or even worried) about being tracked. The new cars have sensors (sort of like a black box in an airplane) which the Police, insurance companies, heck, even mechanics) can tap into to see what parameter a certain vehicle was operating at ( let's say how fast it was going...), and that's just a small dent into how much your privacy is supposedly being invaded.

Let's say that you are driving home, are talking on your cell phone, speeding, and then BAM!!!, you're in an accident. The technology has advanced to the point that a skilled investigator, can actually tap into all of this data and determine who was at fault for the accident. This is good news if the accident that you were involved in was the fault of the other driver.

Bad news, if it was your bad.

But the bottom line, unless you are doing something really bad, why would anyone care?

Somebody was talking about scare tactics, not really sure if it related to this thread. Someone else floated a story about surveillance, 1984, etc....

Fine, I guess. I just can't believe that there are so many supposedly "SMART" people out there, who have failed to grasp onto the concept that this has been happening all along.

In my opinion, it's old news.

And how has it affected our lifestyles? It hasn't.

YAWN!!!!

NBTP

[dk]

I guess at the moment it doesn't really affect our lifestyle. It really won't affect our lifestyle until the government has the right to determine what is devient thinking/lifestyle according to their standards, which was the problem in 1984, equilibrium, V for Vandetta, We, etc.

[Bones]

Good point,dk.

I really don't think that your biggest fears will come to pass for a long time to come. Hopefully, never.:D

But, I will bet you a cup of coffee, everything within these forums is being scrutinized by someone, somewhere.

Since the number of members appear to be rising, and since nobody has been conspicuous by their absence, there really isn't anything to worry about.

Just a thought.

NBTP

[dk]

Good point,dk.

I really don't think that your biggest fears will come to pass for a long time to come. Hopefully, never.:D
Yeah, I doubt it'll be a while. The fact that databases like this (http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN2135960020070821?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews) keep/kept a record of peaceful protesters kind of makes me wonder though. It's interesting to wonder what kind of databases we've all appeared in without even knowing for anything we might have ever said in the past. I went to an anti-war thing once a few years back. Bet I've been flagged somewhere lol.

But, I will bet you a cup of coffee, everything within these forums is being scrutinized by someone, somewhere.
I don't doubt it at all.

Since the number of members appear to be rising, and since nobody has been conspicuous by their absence, there really isn't anything to worry about.
You never know! :p I'll start to worry when TP dissappears. There's a good chance I'll be next. hehe.

[TheNoNamedOne]

But, I will bet you a cup of coffee, everything within these forums is being scrutinized by someone, somewhere.


IP addresses have shown us that someone from the Justice Department had been popping in for some lurking sessions.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Yeah, I doubt it'll be a while. The fact that databases like this (http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN2135960020070821?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews) keep/kept a record of peaceful protesters kind of makes me wonder though. It's interesting to wonder what kind of databases we've all appeared in without even knowing for anything we might have ever said in the past.

Well, one data base is being shut down. However, a new one known as our Guardian will be started up. Wow! I feel safer now knowing The Guardian is watching over us. Here:

WASHINGTON, Aug.21, 2007 (AP) (http://www.ocregister.com/news/pentagon-database-military-1816247-program-shut)
The Pentagon said today that it will shut down an anti-terror database that has been criticized for improperly storing information on peace activists and others whose actions posed no threat.
It will be closed on Sept. 17 and information collected subsequently on potential terror or security threats to Defense Department facilities or personnel will be sent by Pentagon officials to an FBI database known as Guardian, according to Army Col. Gary Keck, a Pentagon spokesman.

And from 2005 this started by the government to keep bodies ready for the war machine:
Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/22/AR2005062202305.html)
The Defense Department began working yesterday with a private marketing firm to create a database of high school students ages 16 to 18 and all college students to help the military identify potential recruits in a time of dwindling enlistment in some branches.

The program is provoking a furor among privacy advocates. The new database will include personal information including birth dates, Social Security numbers, e-mail addresses, grade-point averages, ethnicity and what subjects the students are studying.

The data will be managed by BeNow Inc. of Wakefield, Mass., one of many marketing firms that use computers to analyze large amounts of data to target potential customers based on their personal profiles and habits.

What MOS would they stick a kid they grab for war into once their surfing habit was known to be internet porn sites with a pinch of sado masochism?

Oh yeah! Prison security personel!! Off to Abu Grahb!!!

I'll start to worry when TP dissappears. There's a good chance I'll be next. hehe.

LMAO! I need to go further underground.

[Asshat]

I really don't think that your biggest fears will come to pass for a long time to come. But, I will bet you a cup of coffee, everything within these forums is being scrutinized by someone, somewhere.
NBTP

That's the thing NBTP- we increasingly communicate in this venue which makes our conversations and lifestyles increasingly exposed. Thus technology is responsible for our loss of privacy-and we have no one to blame but ourselves.

We do have the option of never getting on line, never going to the library, never getting a driver's license, always paying in cash, etc. But it is not a realistic way to live, and even if we do live that way, the gov wants to know why...and then has ATF agents pose as weapons buffs who will tell us how to modify a shot gun..

And then later on attack our home in Idaho and kill our family.

Paranoid? It happens. Ask anyone who has been tagged by the IRS.

[DougP]

Well its not the surveillance that gets to me. Its the fact that its supposed to be a free country and yet there are some places I can't buy beer on sundays. Words I can't say because of the color of my skin. Some places and cities I can't take pictures in... IE Chicago. Can't even smoke outside in some public places yet I could burn the American flag if the mood struck me.
Those are some of the things that remind me America is becoming less of a free country everyday.

[Asshat]

Those are some of the things that remind me America is becoming less of a free country everyday.

Freedom is a word Americans have bandied about since the revolution. At that time, freedom had a specific meaning.

Once we collectively decided that politicians could be bought by the highest bidder, that we needed large government to aid us with welfare, medical, and protection services, we gave up our freedom.

It's the average people dying for corporate America, paying the taxes and earning an average 20K a year where the average home costs 250K. It's the average American who can not afford health insurance, flood insurance, or to send their kid to college.

I wish someone would list those freedoms for me, because I sure as hell don't see them. Freedom is only for the rich. The rest of us toss it around so we can justify lives lived in chains.

[shima]

quote:

And how has it affected our lifestyles?

I just do not think that having the government look over my shoulder is such a big deal. What? They going to arrest me for reading "Dilbert" on-line?



You answered your own question. It desensitizes people to the fact that they are being monitored. For now it's security and safety, later it easliy works it way into all aspect or your life and by then it's too late to change.

Monitoring is not an accepted price of using the new technologies, it's an abuse of them.

[Asshat]

After a hard day, I'm safe at home, Foolin with my baby on the telephone, out of nowhere somebody cuts in and Says, "Hmm, you in some trouble boy, we know where you're been."

I'm out on the border, I'm walkin' the line Don't you tell me 'bout your law and order I'm try'n' to change this water to wine.

[Bones]

I won't try to sway your opinions one way, or another. All of those who have responded to this thread, have made some valid points (at least as far as they are concerned).

But what continues to amaze me, is the fact that all of you out there, are so ignorant of the fact that your usage of a high-tech item is not being tracked. It may be tracked by the company of the product you have purchased, or the Government. Sign up with an ISP, or cable service provider, everything that you do with that service is being monitored. And they are required to keep a log of your activities for 12-24 months, after you have stopped using their services.

I have no problem with it myself. I don't surf porn, not looking to buy drugs/guns, not looking to kill anyone, not planning on taking out any countries anytime soon....

What irritates me most, is the targeted advertisements. I really do not care if the governments of the USA, or Japan, are looking over my shoulder. Just make the commercials go away!!!!:mad: