American base closings

[bokuwa]

When American bases are planned and built the communities surrounding it usually have a lot to say, both pro and con.
When military bases in a area have a lot of bars and strip clubs around them, there are usually problems that communities who do not have bases, don't have.
When bases in America propose to close or shut down operations, there are pros and cons to the suggestion.
I do not know of any bases in America that allow the low level of flight that takes place here in Okinawa, Japan. The communities would fight it tooth and nail such low level take offs and landing. Additionally noise levels at all major airports are monitored for compliance to the laws governing it, apparently the bases here don’t concern themselves with the effects of the take offs and landings.
The bases on the mainland are making extra efforts to get the Japanese communities, around the bases, to see them as nice guys and picking up garbage or playing with kids. Expanding bases the reason. They are planning to have the Japanese built housing for the Americans who get to live off base. All this is what was done a long time ago by giving chocolate to kids and locals when American military showed up to claim stakes somewhere and to win the hearts and minds of the people they plan on controlling in one form or another.
Pretty much the same goes on with what the military says it will do for a community in America, tax incentives and what not to get a foot hold somewhere.
Forgot to add my example, look at North Carolina. They have been for a long time trying to put an air base there near Washington, NC and the people have a lot to say about it, mostly the noise. They would be getting the same benifits almost as Okinawa would be for letting the base be there. Some people who live there changed their minds a few times about okay or not okay to have a base.

[InDuhUSA]

Are you wanting the bases in Okinawa to be closed? If so, do you have any suggestions on how those Okinawans who depend on the bases for their economic well-being on how they can recover fro the closures? Furthermore, do you have any suggestions on how the island can defend itself against attacks from North Korea and China?

[dk]

In all fairness, the Okinawans survived for thousands of years without the US military bases. I'm sure it'd be an awkward transition, but they'd eventually figure it out.

As far as your second point, Japan would have to form it's own military power. I'm sure they'd still be allies with the US, and economically speaking it probably wouldn't be the brightest plan in the world for China to outright invade the country of one of the US's top allies.

[Boost]

I am sure Okinawa would survive one way or another. Perhaps it could transition into the booming tourist location some envision. Or perhaps it would become a major source of farming products with the newly reacquired, abundance of land.

As for the defense side of the argument, Japan has become extreamly wealthy, in part, to it's ability to spend so little on national defense thanks to the U.S. Military presence here. They have been able to utilize that money in other areas to help itself grow into the nation it has become. I am sure the burden of having to build up it's own military if the U.S. left is not something the Japanese government really wants to do at this point.

[DoctorP]

I do not know of any bases in America that allow the low level of flight that takes place here in Okinawa, Japan. The communities would fight it tooth and nail such low level take offs and landing.

Ever been to Cherry Point? And if you included commercial airports with that ever been to Atlanta?

Forgot to add my example, look at North Carolina. They have been for a long time trying to put an air base there near Washington, NC and the people have a lot to say about it, mostly the noise. They would be getting the same benifits almost as Okinawa would be for letting the base be there. Some people who live there changed their minds a few times about okay or not okay to have a base.

Guess you have seen Cherry Point. Wonder why you would say what you did then?

As for what would Okinawa do?

They have taken steps to move into the technology spotlight. Two new colleges have opened in the last 5 years...ok one college and one trade school. Many think tourism is the way to go, others want a casino park, and a few other ideas as well. None of them are very good if you ask me because where they may help to replace jobs lost from the bases, they do nothing to offset the current unemployment rate in Okinawa.

When someone says that Okinawans are getting rich off the bases, it is only a few hands seeing that money. Okinawa is still the pooerest prefecture in Japan, and that will not change anytime soon...hell, not in 20 years. The people here with the money have to do something to create real jobs, and tourism is not it! Tourism depends on seasons, and that means seasonal jobs. What already happens now is that many people are out of work for most of the year. Until Okinawa realizes a way to stop that, they are doomed for failure.

[InDuhUSA]

I enjoyed reading all of the responses, though I think DoctorP's post appears to be the more gloomy reality of this whole thing. I would like to see Okinawa propser and defend itself without military help, even if it did blow any chance I would have of getting a job and going back over there (selfish, selfish me :D)

However, many anti-base Okinawans and their supporters seem to just want the bases gone without working to come up with a plan that will help them to recover from the American departure if we were to ever finally get fed up and give in to their demands (like we kind of did with the Philippines).

I say that people should not just want something without a workable plan for the aftermath.

[dk]

They're mostly just jumping on the bandwagon. I highly doubt the majority of the so-called anti-war crowd actually give much of a care.

I sometimes wonder if ANY of them actually care. If they did, they'd learn how to protest. And they'd learn WHO they need to actually protest to. It does NOTHING to stand outside a base holding hands. They want to make a change? They need to talk to their own politicians in the mainland.

[InDuhUSA]

They're mostly just jumping on the bandwagon. I highly doubt the majority of the so-called anti-war crowd actually give much of a care.

I sometimes wonder if ANY of them actually care. If they did, they'd learn how to protest. And they'd learn WHO they need to actually protest to. It does NOTHING to stand outside a base holding hands. They want to make a change? They need to talk to their own politicians in the mainland.

I'm glad you brought this up. This is a good point. This is another thing I believe is that it is simply FASHIONABLE to protest the bases. It's like a FAD or something. The article I read in JU a couple of weeks ago kind of lead me to believe that the folks lack any real seriousness when they gave up so quickly.

I love the OKinawans and sympathize with their plight. It is unfair for them to bear most of the bases on their little island. Furthermore, with these idiotic Americans going over there and robbing and raping doesn't necessarily help their impression of us (nevermind that their own people do it too but an American doing it just stand out stronger). But if they REALLY want those bases gone, something more than ranting and raving (and voting in socialists like Ota as governor) is going to have to be done.

[dk]

They don't even rant and rave. They just stand around holding hands.

Come on now. If you're going to protest, put on a show. At least in America most protesters aren't afraid to spend a day in jail if they have to to get the point across.

Here, they have this big comfort zone. They're not going to get out of that comfort zone when they protest. You don't make a movement without shaking things up a little.

I'm not advocating violence or breaking the law. I'm just saying, Okinawans really suck at the whole protesting thing.

[bokuwa]

Japan has military forces and ships, all the stuff needed for war. It may not be as much as America has, true. They just purchased f-22's from America as well. They are debating the issue of the constitution on limiting it to only defending it's self from attack.
My post was to address one of the issues about being weak-willed, changing their minds and supporting the bases and then not supporting. Americans are no different was my theme.
I have been to Atlanta a few times and don’t get your point, sorry. They have noise problems also?
Yes, I have been to Cherry Point a few times also and people there are the same, some do and some don’t like the base there.
A while back they had on the news in North Carolina the issue of the economy being devastated when troops were sent out overseas and businesses were having a hard time trying to stay a float. They wanted to do something to help the area recover from this, anyone recall?
Well, my mind says this. The businesses were not sharing any of their profits with me or anyone else when they were doing good and making money, why do I have to share in their losses.
The BIG ATTACK that is coming to Japan.. Are the North Koreans coming to Japan by ships? Are they coming by air, parachuting in? That’s why we need all the men and bases in Japan? Because America will counter attack by sending troops in by ship and planes?
Isn’t the big concern that North Korea will launch missiles onto Japan? If agreed, then how about a new look at what is actually going to be happening in case of attack and what should be in place to best defend from it. When doing that we can take a look at what America is spending “TAX DOLLARS” on having the setup we do in Japan. I see having radar and men to operate it, a few spy planes, maybe. Missiles for counter attack and men to operate them. We already have the satellites looking down on Korea.
One idea is to take the air strips and make one of the best drag strip racing places in the world!! With kiddy racing along side and adult amateur racing as well. A big horse track or a couple of them. Whatever is done with the land returned is a topic for the Japanese people to decide.
:eek:

[DoctorP]

I have been to Atlanta a few times and don’t get your point, sorry. They have noise problems also?

Yes, noise problems and low flying aircraft. Much bigger aircraft in fact.



One idea is to take the air strips and make one of the best drag strip racing places in the world!! With kiddy racing along side and adult amateur racing as well. A big horse track or a couple of them. Whatever is done with the land returned is a topic for the Japanese people to decide.
:eek:


Well sure, a drag strip or race track will fix all of the noise and nuisance problems! :rolleyes:

A horse track won't work at all...it would only be ok for a few months of the year. On top of that, have you seen the way horses are cared for here? (that is a whole seperate rant by itself!)

*Note* You really need to learn how to put distance between your paragraphs. Reading your posts are a real pain in the butt!

[bokuwa]

I was just being a wise guy with the drag race track, sorry. Though a nice horse racing track with all the bells and whistles would be something I would enjoy!
Big boxes with air conditioning, nice big comfortable chairs and room service of course! World class restaurant inside, along with little shops.

[Boost]

I was just being a wise guy with the drag race track, sorry.

You know, when we were still living on Okinawa I had mentioned to the wife that Kadena or Futema should do an amature drag race night once a month or so with the flight line. Thought maybe that would help cut down on the illegal street racing that goes on Sunday nights on 58.

[P_chan]

I was just being a wise guy with the drag race track, sorry. Though a nice horse racing track with all the bells and whistles would be something I would enjoy!
Big boxes with air conditioning, nice big comfortable chairs and room service of course! World class restaurant inside, along with little shops.

I've always wanted to have a drag race on a airstrip. Close down the airstrip for a weekend and hold a car meeting with organized races.

[InDuhUSA]

Yeah, I remember those late night drag races on Highway 58. Annoying. BUt then again, so was getting yen stolen from my car because I did not lock the car at night over there (locking the car at night is a strong habit here in the USA, even though I live in a good neighborhood).

However, I am not sure if legalizing the drag racing will solve the base closure problems.

[Asshat]

In all fairness, the Okinawans survived for thousands of years without the US military bases. I'm sure it'd be an awkward transition, but they'd eventually figure it out.

Once the Shogunate was able to sail against the Kuroshio, they took no time in subjugating the Okinawan people. At the onset of WWII, the Japanese soldiers bombed areas of Okinawa to get them angry at their coming attackers. (And told them of the rapes coming)

This island has never escaped a conqueror, nor has it faired well with a protector.

Here, they have this big comfort zone. They're not going to get out of that comfort zone when they protest. You don't make a movement without shaking things up a little.

I'm not advocating violence or breaking the law. I'm just saying, Okinawans really suck at the whole protesting thing.

You are so right. The protests are usually a place of work-the assigned place to be, or the kumiaii says they must be there, or they are downright paid to be there. Generally, Okinawans do not take an individual stance on anything.

The anti-base rallies right after the rapes ten years ago were headed by mainland Japanese...just like the recent "hands around Kadena" rally.

[TheNoNamedOne]

This island has never escaped a conqueror, nor has it faired well with a protector.

True. A combination of geography and apathy is a bitch -- a kind of embracement of hardship.

The anti-base rallies right after the rapes ten years ago were headed by mainland Japanese...just like the recent "hands around Kadena" rally.

When a leader doesn't rise up from the flock, and if they are not to be continuously fleeced, they need to accept a ram coming from the other pasture to lead them.

Okinawans are sheep. They can't bring themselves to rise up with force of their own will and leadership. But, in general most on any given day will all gripe about the hardships the bases cause them.

Sadly, a sheep waits to be butchered, as it is content in the field its master allows it to graze in.

[Asshat]

As much as I have viewed the direct impact the bases have on this island in the last three decades, I have yet to hear an Okinawan complain that the bases have caused them hardship. Sure, I have read about it, heard it blasted from loudspeakers, but never have I been told this personally. I have heard the America-ta comments and seen the spitting of course.

Many Okinawans are completely unaffected, like my (ex) in-laws near Tomigusuku (way south). Of course specific numbers of IHA and MLC employees are to be found, and it is less than I thought, but still significant. The owners of establishments will feel the effects, (some more than others) and many expats who make a living will be hurt financially.

I do not see a viable alternative for more prosperity. For awhile, the Okinawans were being subsidized to grow, then not grow sato kibi. Then it was flowers. There does remain a solid agricultural base, but it is tiny in comparison.

They say the hopes lay in tourism. But when I go to the hotels, I see young Japanese (I suppose I can say naicha since we use "gaijin" here a lot) making 600 yen per hour. Doesn't seem like much salvation in that. Okinawans meanwhile continue to flock to Tokyo and Osaka with their new families to make a life for themselves.

Oh and....when they closed Hamby field, we used it for drag racing for a couple of years. Sometime after that, they began filling in the reef out there....destroying a reef where we used to go and catch tatchi at night in the winter. I still have a hard time going near that place.

[thistle]

Don't have a lot to add to the last post by Uminchu, except that I totally agree with all of it.
In all my time here, I have never heard anyone I know, including all the students I have
had over the years, actually complain about the bases, the only thing I have really heard
people complain about here is the low wages.
One of the things about this place which does sometimes drive me crazy is the apathy of the
people, but they seem undisturbed, unaffected by the US bases being here.
Ask them about it, and half the time, they will try to change the subject, 'can we talk about
some more lighthearted matter here'.

This is the poorest prefecture in Japan, losing the bases will certainly damage the economy,
but it will survive, but tourism and farming is about all it will ever have.
Of course, I have heard of people complain of the aircraft noise, and I even moved myself once
because of the helicoper noise, but I look at the Okinawan people and I see people who struggle to make a living every day, but they are happy, happy with their Island as it is.
Most of them I guess just have the sense to know if all the U.S. Bases were to close (which of
course would never happen), businesses would start closing, and the economy would plummet. Maybe that is why they don't bother to complain or protest about them, just part of their 'gaman' culture.

[Honduh]

Low Flying aircraft....loud planes...hello. Who would have ever thought of such a thing with a air field? lol.

As for the race park, I personally think its a bad ass idea, look how the place is laid out?

-Considering Okinawa turned down Disney years ago...pfff...and we wanna talk about tourism? Another Jusco and mafia run plachinko parlor is all we need around here.


yeah.

[dk]

Considering Okinawa turned down Disney years ago...pfff...and we wanna talk about tourism? Another Jusco and mafia run plachinko parlor is all we need around here.
My thoughts exactly. You can never have enough pachinko parlors and/or Juscos.:rolleyes:

[TheNoNamedOne]

My thoughts exactly. You can never have enough pachinko parlors and/or Juscos.:rolleyes:

... and concreted out of the way dive spots to handle bus loads of tourists.

[dk]

... and concreted out of the way dive spots to handle bus loads of tourists.
Don't forget to throw some more concrete on more sea turtle nesting grounds.

[Honduh]

I also would make more faculities for the mainlander protesters who come down to protest these base's. ;)

[dk]

I also would make more faculities for the mainlander protesters who come down to protest these base's. ;)
Maybe like a punch & pie booth right outside the bases to make them feel more welcome while protesting? :p

[Honduh]

I still havent figured out why they protest American bases in Japaneese writing. Id like to know what they say...

[DoctorP]

I still havent figured out why they protest American bases in Japaneese writing. Id like to know what they say...

Why would they protest in English? They're trying to sway their own politicians, not ours!

[thistle]

Yes, but they should have them in both japanese and english, in my opinion.

They used to hold little protests at the bottom of the Futenma gate road once a week,and most
of the signs were in excellent english, no mistakes, always wondered who made those.
It could not have been a Japanese, they were just too good!

[Asshat]

Yes, but they should have them in both japanese and english, in my opinion.

They used to hold little protests at the bottom of the Futenma gate road once a week,and most
of the signs were in excellent english, no mistakes, always wondered who made those.
It could not have been a Japanese, they were just too good!

There's a new sign in Chatan (Sunabe) that mentions the Chatan Air Base. It's in the wrong area though. In plain view are hundreds of max. LQA rental units-some 4000 USD per month- as well as some gaigin frequented establishments like U Time, a Pizza Joint, etc.

[ststephen65]

i feel bad about how much land we do take up here, but there are a cpl positives i guess, one is by having the northern training areas up north we are actually helping preserve the natural areas. there are un seen sections of jungle up there.

also i would really hate to see okinawa turn to tourism as their primary source of income, this place would turn into the next hawaii....yuck

[Just VP]

Japan has military forces and ships, all the stuff needed for war. It may not be as much as America has, true. They just purchased f-22's from America as well. They are debating the issue of the constitution on limiting it to only defending it's self from attack.
My post was to address one of the issues about being weak-willed, changing their minds and supporting the bases and then not supporting. Americans are no different was my theme.
I have been to Atlanta a few times and don’t get your point, sorry. They have noise problems also?
Yes, I have been to Cherry Point a few times also and people there are the same, some do and some don’t like the base there.
A while back they had on the news in North Carolina the issue of the economy being devastated when troops were sent out overseas and businesses were having a hard time trying to stay a float. They wanted to do something to help the area recover from this, anyone recall?
Well, my mind says this. The businesses were not sharing any of their profits with me or anyone else when they were doing good and making money, why do I have to share in their losses.
The BIG ATTACK that is coming to Japan.. Are the North Koreans coming to Japan by ships? Are they coming by air, parachuting in? That’s why we need all the men and bases in Japan? Because America will counter attack by sending troops in by ship and planes?
Isn’t the big concern that North Korea will launch missiles onto Japan? If agreed, then how about a new look at what is actually going to be happening in case of attack and what should be in place to best defend from it. When doing that we can take a look at what America is spending “TAX DOLLARS” on having the setup we do in Japan. I see having radar and men to operate it, a few spy planes, maybe. Missiles for counter attack and men to operate them. We already have the satellites looking down on Korea.
One idea is to take the air strips and make one of the best drag strip racing places in the world!! With kiddy racing along side and adult amateur racing as well. A big horse track or a couple of them. Whatever is done with the land returned is a topic for the Japanese people to decide.
:eek:

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????

[Muku]

I'm not advocating violence or breaking the law. I'm just saying, Okinawans really suck at the whole protesting thing.

dk I have heard this phrase used regarding the Okinawan people. Okinawan's are a volcanoe waiting to explode. Dont let the calm demeanor fool you, sure they are in my opinion very peaceful and hating of violence, they can be moved to "protest" as well.

Ever heard of the Koza Riots and why they occured?

http://www.62ndmpco.org/gallery/RIOT/full/Photo1.JPG

http://www.62ndmpco.org/gallery/RIOT/full/photo2.jpg


On December 20, 1970, a vehicle driven by an American soldier hit an Okinawan. The Military Police who rushed to the site paid no attention to the victim and tried to carry away the car to the base. Around 1,000 people surrounded them and protested. The frightened MP started fired warning shots. As the angry people closed in, the MPs ran away firing shots. The soldier responsible for the incident was beaten up. More and more people gathered and started burning the vehicles nearby such as army trucks, MP jeeps and cars with yellow plates that indicated the US ownership. Towards the midnight, the crowd kept growing. One group burned police boxes while the other went to Kadena Base. They broke the gate and set fire on the filing cabinets and the American school. Armed soldiers fired tear gas. Helicopters also sprayed tear gas over the masses. This group was pushed outside by the armed soldiers while the other headed towards the U.S. headquarters. By the dawn, they all dispersed. Some 80 cars were destroyed. 19 were arrested and many wounded. The police applied the crime of riot but could not prosecute any of them. They were charged with other crimes and punished. There was no damage recorded to persons or properties of Okinawa.

In those days, 63% of Koza (present Okinawa city) was occupied by the bases. Koza’s economy was 80% dependent on the bases. On one hand, Koza flourished “thanks to” the war in Vietnam. On the other hand, Koza suffered much by the crimes committed by the GIs. Koza Riot in a way was a natural outcome of this situation. The US government still remembers the fear caused by Koza riot. Though it was a spontaneous riot, there was a certain order and discipline observed by all who joined it.

There was another incident that indirectly led people to riot. On September 18, 1970, a drunken GI driver killed a woman in Itoman-city in the south of the main island. The military court found him innocent on December 11 by reasons of lack of evidence. After 1970, violent crimes committed by American soldiers rose to 1,000 every year. They included homicides, rapes and burglaries. The number of U.S. soldier-caused traffic accidents was over 3000 a year. All the crimes were handled by the MPs who concealed evidence. The accused were tried by closed military courts and declared either innocent or given minor punishments.



In July, 1969, the leak of VX nerve gas from a container in Kadena Base was discovered. The discovery led people to organize action. The US Forces organized a plan called “Operation Red Hat” to transfer the gas to Johnston Island in the Pacific. On December 20, the day before the Koza Riot, there was a big gathering of the Okinawa people to demand withdrawal of poisonous gas. All these incidents served as the background against which the Koza riot exploded.

[ryukyuboi]

I distinctly remember some Japanese "radicals" violently destroying Narita airport when it was first opened. Their acts were an embarrassment to the Japanese government. The Japanese famers did not want to give up their land. I am guessing eminent domain legally trumped the farmers position....Some Okinawans did not want to give up their land when the expressway was built. Again, eminent domain ruled the day. The bottom line is that the Japanese government decides when land is needed for the common good. Presently, the land used by the US military is generously subsidized by the Japanese government to the land owners in the interest of national security - the common good - in conjunction with their mutual defense treaty obligations with the United States. However, the use of most of the land already returned to Okinawan landowners has been decided by the landowners themselves, and not the Japanese government.

There used to be a horse riding stable on Kadena Air Base. That land was taken to build Kadena High School and housing.

People choose where they wish to live. If one lives nearby an airport, and finds that the noise levels are excessive, the person does have the option to move. The person also has option to stay put and file a legal suit. Japanese and Okinawans have taken their noise complaints to court. The outcome from the Japanese courts have been mixed - depending on the case. Compensation awards have been granted and denied. What some people consider noise pollution, others consider the aircraft noise the sounds of freedom. Noise is monitored on Okinawa.

Peace.

[CGoki]

Kind of easy for the MPs to conceal evidence when the US was in control of Okinawa during those times. I'm pretty sure if the US was still in control and just did not hold people accountable for their actions, there would of been more riots going on. I could easily picture so after the infamous rape of the 12yo if nothing had come of those 3 worthless individuals. Hell I might have been one of them rioting against and taken my punishment later on by the military for I guess treason. I really hated being here when that happened, because views really did change and at the same time the military powers at hand went to the condemn everyone because yes we are all bad apples policy. To me, taking action as such just shows how weak of a leader one is, because they have no real leadership skill and no faith in those that work under them. It's quite cowardice.

[Muku]

Here is something I would like to share that I have had for a while it is a short story about how some of the land was appropriated for Cp. Foster.

The outbreak of the Korean War further drove the US Forces to construct new bases. Though the US had practically converted the whole island into one big base, the Korean War urged the US to construct stronger forward bases to control the whole of Asia. People of Okinawa who had barely recuperated from the “Iron Typhoon” had to face another typhoon. Land confiscation began in a village called Isahama and spread all over. In some cases the US prohibited farming under the excuse of mosquito outbreak. The paddy fields and farms carefully cultivated were bulldozed before harvesting. At Isahama, at dawn fully armed soldiers arrived with bulldozers and filled fields with sand from the ocean.

The green rice plants were buried in salt water and sand. People who were not allowed to harvest resisted but in vain. In Iejima, several American soldiers entered a house and asked for matches to set fire and the house was burnt while the residents did not have time to take their belongings out. People deprived of their basic rights to live went around the island asking for support.

Their action was dubbed “Beggars’ March” as the marchers had nothing at all to own and suffered from a terrible inhuman situation. Some of the dislocated people, after moving from place to place in the island, migrated to South America. The land confiscation begun during the Korean War continued to the Vietnam War. The period was characterized as the period of people’s struggle for land.

[hankypanky]

This is why I always try to provide a smile to any okinawan i meet. I love okinawa more than i can say and plan on staying here. Many okinawan's have asked why i don't want to be with my family in the states(noting the close relationship of okinawan family culture). I just find life here too much relaxing even though many hardships. Those that are here for 1-2 years might understand, but to truly live here with no prospect of returning to the states or any other country is only understood by a handfull of americans.

Now i just wish i will be able to vote here before i die!

[DougP]

^ I agree. I have no plans on returning either.

[dk]

Sorry for the delay. Just noticed this post...

dk I have heard this phrase used regarding the Okinawan people. Okinawan's are a volcanoe waiting to explode. Dont let the calm demeanor fool you, sure they are in my opinion very peaceful and hating of violence, they can be moved to "protest" as well.

Ever heard of the Koza Riots and why they occured?
Thanks for the post. Yeah, I've heard a little about the Koza Riots over the years, but I never did any research into it.

Okinawan's are a volcanoe waiting to explode.

I'm sure this is true.

I just think the anti-base protests are rediculous. They never have much if any effect whatsoever.

http://www.japanupdate.com/?id=7763

Now THAT on the other hand really suprised me. You don't hear many cases of Okinawan protesters actually taking the next step. In a way, I applaud that he had the balls to do what he did, but in another way, I laugh at the face I imagine he made when the JSDF turned off his oxygen.

Probably something like this -> :eek:

[DougP]

Wow and now he wants to take it to court pfft

[dk]

Yeah, good luck with that, right? lol...

[Boost]

I just find life here too much relaxing even though many hardships.

No doubt! I miss running on "Okinawan time." Back here in the states man, everybody is about the hurry up.

[JosefK]

First post but I've been lurking around a while...

Just wanted to address a common misconception alot of posters have on this board about the income from the Bases in relation to the overall economy of Okinawa.

The U.S. bases are a drag on the Okinawan economy. According to the best estimates, the incomes generated directly or indirectly by the bases are only 5% of the gross domestic product of Okinawa. This is far too small a contribution for an establishment sitting on 20% of Okinawa's land. Given the choice locations of the bases, if these areas were used as part of the civilian market economy, they should yield more than 20% of Okinawa's GDP. In effect, the U.S. and Japan are forcing on Okinawa's economy a deadweight loss of 15% of its GDP every year.

Of course removal of the bases will impact the local economy but put into context of the above statement the sooner they are removed the sooner Okinawans can start to get the real potential from their land. One of the measures I'd like to see more of is definitely a requirement for mainland companies starting up in Okinawa to hire over a certain percentage of its workers from Okinawa. Okinawa is and has been massively disadvantaged over the years from its location, history, military usage and having affirmative action is one way that this can be redressed.

[ryukyuboi]

You are speculating as to the potential of the land and the income generated from such.

[DougP]

It doesn't take into account the 25,000 or so Japanese base employees with an average annual payroll of over $56,000. If the base slowly go away this wont be much of a problem. But 25,000 unemployed people could put a strain on some local areas. Not too mention on the base employees themselves. No matter what though Okinawa will bounce back fairly easily imo.

[Muku]

It doesn't take into account the 25,000 or so Japanese base employees with an average annual payroll of over $56,000. If the base slowly go away this wont be much of a problem. But 25,000 unemployed people could put a strain on some local areas. Not too mention on the base employees themselves. No matter what though Okinawa will bounce back fairly easily imo.

:w00t::w00t::-|, How many people do you plan on paying with that amount?

[DougP]

I was kinda supprised at the figure myself :) Told my wife she should ask for a raise. What's the average income of Okinawans who are not employed on base? Also I don't think that figure included any of the "NON "MLC IHA workers like contracts for maintenance and construction.

[Muku]

The average income for Okinawan's is roughly 2,125,000 yen per year, wll below the national average of 3,131,000 yen per year. The Okinawa individual average is about 70% of the national average.

The average income in Tokyo is double that of here in Okinawa.

2,000,000 at 115 yen to the $ comes out to about $17,400.

[Fonze]

2,000,000 at 115 yen to the $ comes out to about $17,400.

If you had a family of 4 in the u.s thats below the poverty line significantly.

[Muku]

If you had a family of 4 in the u.s thats below the poverty line significantly.
Yes it is and believe it or not a single parent, usually a mother here in Okinawa survives on roughly 2/3's of that, including all the extra benefits that the Japanese equivalent of social services pays for.

Many people truly fail to see the tight situation many Japanese are in, particularly here in Okinawa.

[DougP]

I wish I was one of those people who fail to see it.:) That would mean I wouldn't be living on such a tight income and in a very small apartment.

Honestly though I can't complain I'm rich in many other ways.:)

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Okinawans get screwed by the mainland Japan companies, and that is as big a problem as the base issues. Big hotel chains, supermarkets and departments stores, travel companies, ad naseum are mostly mainland owned. Sure, a few locals get jobs as chambermaids and store clerks, but the managers and owners are very often Naicha. The company profits flow straight back to Hondo. Being economically tied to Naichi has not been good for Okinawa. It would be better to be a semi-autonomous region and make our own deals with China and S.E. Asia.

[Muku]

Okinawans get screwed by the mainland Japan companies, and that is as big a problem as the base issues. Big hotel chains, supermarkets and departments stores, travel companies, ad naseum are mostly mainland owned. Sure, a few locals get jobs as chambermaids and store clerks, but the managers and owners are very often Naicha. The company profits flow straight back to Hondo. Being economically tied to Naichi has not been good for Okinawa. It would be better to be a semi-autonomous region and make our own deals with China and S.E. Asia.

That is one of the reasons I do a majority of my shopping at San Ei. It is locally owned.

[devine]

You know, when we were still living on Okinawa I had mentioned to the wife that Kadena or Futema should do an amature drag race night once a month or so with the flight line. Thought maybe that would help cut down on the illegal street racing that goes on Sunday nights on 58.

It's a nice idea but they would never do it. There is a liability risks to those sort of things. I know I would be the first one out there each week but again if something happened to a driver or spectator then Military would be responsible.

[Oxmix]

Okinawans get screwed by the mainland Japan companies, and that is as big a problem as the base issues. Big hotel chains, supermarkets and departments stores, travel companies, ad naseum are mostly mainland owned. Sure, a few locals get jobs as chambermaids and store clerks, but the managers and owners are very often Naicha. The company profits flow straight back to Hondo. Being economically tied to Naichi has not been good for Okinawa. It would be better to be a semi-autonomous region and make our own deals with China and S.E. Asia.

There should have been no revision in1972, instead Okinawa should have become an American Territory like Guam. The Japanese see the Okinawans as inferiors, period.
In the 60's the Okinawans knew what was to come. Many Okinawan land owners feared the loss of their land to the Japanese. Many business owners feared the loss of their businesses. Many a young Okinawan girls chose to marry an American rather than face what was coming.
There were those that wanted the revision to take place. Yes, it was a hot topic at the time and the country/ Island was divided.

Regards

Ox

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

There should have been no revision in1972, instead Okinawa should have become an American Territory like Guam. The Japanese see the Okinawans as inferiors, period.
In the 60's the Okinawans knew what was to come. Many Okinawan land owners feared the loss of their land to the Japanese. Many business owners feared the loss of their businesses. Many a young Okinawan girls chose to marry an American rather than face what was coming.
There were those that wanted the revision to take place. Yes, it was a hot topic at the time and the country/ Island was divided.

Regards

Ox
That's just the thing. Japan was in the midst of an economic boom time when the revision issue was coming to a head. Many Islanders wanted a piece of the action. They had a similar situation before being annexed by Japan in the late 1800s. Japan was a rising power then, China was in decline. Plenty remained loyal to the Chinese ties, but many more wanted to get with the new big kid on the block.

Okinawans have had ties with Japan since at least the 1200s. For most of that time the relationship was mutually beneficial. I'm not convinced remaining an American protectorate would have been better in the long run.

[a_bjyrd]

I dont think the military will ever leave okinawa totally

[okiprince07]

okinawans dont want us here so they do protests? thats stupid. they could not survive without our precense here. we give them sooo much money to keep businesses going. if we leave, they are all dead. the governement of japan does not care too much abou tthis island...sad

[P_chan]

okinawans dont want us here so they do protests? thats stupid. they could not survive without our precense here. we give them sooo much money to keep businesses going. if we leave, they are all dead. the governement of japan does not care too much abou tthis island...sad

I was thinking about addressing this, but it's already been addressed so many times in so many different places across this forum. Go look it up, you'll see the answer. They wouldn't "die" without us, and I understand why they are so sick and tired of us. They are sick and tired of being occupied by different countries for a long time. First japan, then america, and now japan again with the americans still around. The common okinawan person is a damn good sport about it too, IMHO.