Disciplining your children, or your perception of it?

[Muku]

This thread is born out of a couple of replies and statements made on the following thread...please refer to posts 27 through 38 to get an idea of what I am talking about here. Thank you.

http://www.japanupdate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=866
Included in on of the posts was this comment;
My daughter can do whatever she pleases, she can say whatever she likes, if she is offended she will snap back.

In my opinion this is too much freedom for a child to have, I write my opinions about how I feel about this in the link above.

How much freedom do you allow? How much would you discipline your child if they snapped back at an adult or you from a comment that they didnt feel was right?

I have 3 kids, aged 20 to 8, I rarely have had the need to discipline them. They usually do as they are told, are excellent students, help out quite a bit. But as kids and human beings get angry or do something thoughtless that gets them into trouble. They are not spoiled and do not get what ever they want, nor can they do whatever they want either. Even my 20 year old when she is home, understands that she has responsibilities to the family and cooperates accordingly.

Now then here is another comment that was directed towards me;
Yep, you are american alright..
Because I wouldn't allow my child to do as they please I get accused of being an American?:rolleyes: Like that is some crime?

Now wait this is about kids and discipline, since I wouldn't allow my kids to throw fits or do as they choose somehow that makes me or singles me out as American? :rolleyes::rolleyes: Didnt know you could tell the nationality of a person just by the fact that they/me discipline their kids or have good kids, or have an expection of the level of proper behavior expected from children.

On the other hand to extend the logic of that comment could I safely assume that she "isn't" American and somehow that gives her the right to let her kids run free. :-|

How do you deal with discipline, how far do you let your kids, or would you let your kids go before drawing the line? I have found that generally speaking here American's in comparison to Japanese are much more strict, however that is a generalization as I know some Japanese families that are stricter than the average American. Another thing, Americans usually are more strict with their younger kids than Japanese parents are.

I have made some generalizations in the previous paragraph only because there are too many different examples that could be given. Each individual is different and each people or culture has their own way of handling issues like this. So please take that into consideration when thinking about this topic.

Well what about you? What are your thoughts or ideas on the subject of discipline and kids?

[thistle]

Interesting topic, I have to say I think a lot of japanese kids get away with bloody murder, especially the under 5's. When my children were under 5 and were throwing a tantrum or refused to do something they were supposed to do they just got the heavy hand from me, shout at them in public, never
bothered me if I had to. However now they are older, esp. 15 year old they
basically get to think and do what they want for themselves, I do not interfere too much with what he wants to do. I'm just around to keep him on the straight and narrow.
The Japanese however seem to spend hours trying to persuade a wailing child to see things their way, waste of time, just pick him up and move him out of here!
I sometimes wonder if they give them so much freedom when they are little because they lose their freedom and childhood after entering Junior High school here in Japan. No time for play or fun - just study, club, study. For
most kids anyway.

[thistle]

Just wanted to add to this, I was watching my american friend disciplining,
well trying to get her son from taking food and eating it in the water the other day, and I was actually pretty surprised. He did not listen to her and just kept on doing it, and she did not get angry or upset with him, eventually just said ' you're not listening very well today are you?'.
I guess I just don't have that kind of patience. However I don't agree with her, what he was doing was wrong and she should have stopped him.

[Muku]

I guess I just don't have that kind of patience. However I don't agree with her, what he was doing was wrong and she should have stopped him.
I dont know if I would call it a lack of patience on your part.

I am curious however if the woman actually disciplines her child, or is she too, lazy, (probably not a good choice of words here), to actually do anything about it?

[P_chan]

This may sound wrong but I think kids should be beat. Not beat in a abusing your child sense, but in discipline sense. If your kid is being bad, yell at them and smack their ass, even if you are in public. I think it's a joke once I see someone threaten their kids with a time out or say something along the lines of "Thats not nice of you to hit mommy you better stop". Almost like they are giving them a choice in the matter. I saw some lady with her kid in jusco and the kid was running around going crazy. Smacking his mom, throwing stuff off the shelves, and just being loud and annoying. What did the mother do? Just a bunch of "That's not nice" and "You need to be more respectful". Like a 2 or 3 year old has the mental capacity to tell what is wrong and what is right sometimes. He knows that if he keeps acting up he will eventually get what he wants. Now if he knows that if he acts up the only thing he will get is a smack on the ass, then he won't act up.

I also think people are too scared to discipline their kids in public. They think that someone is going to call child services if discipline their kids in public. Unfortunatly, this is true sometimes. But hey if your not really beating your kids at home then whats the problem?

[dk]

I got the leather belt when I was a kid. Most of the time, I got spankings. The belt was for when I really really acted up. After one or two times getting the belt, just being told that "if you don't stop, you're going to get the belt", I learned pretty quickly to take it seriously.

I'm all for spankings. I'm not too keen on yelling at kids. Just take them in the next room and a good spanking should do the trick. Or, at least it worked on me.

[P_chan]

I agree! You don't have to scream bloody murder at your kids. Just a swift smack on the ass and stern voice is all you need. Timeouts don't work because you just put them in their room with their toys. Smack em', give them a talking to, and deny them something or make them do something. Like no dessert or now they don't get to go to the park.

[dk]

Or put them in the corner. I used to hate that. No toys. No talking. No nothing. Ten minutes in a corner feels like an eternity for a kid.

"No mac & cheese for you tonight" was pretty rough punishment for me too.

[Tempestuous]

Interesting thread.

Our children are allowed to play and be rough and rowdy boys.....when the time is appropriate. They also know how to sit and behave. We have never been ones to freely leave our kids with babysitter, so they are very regularly in situations where they have to have control of themselves. If they fail to keep control of themselves we will step in and force some control.

I feel that if you do not teach your children how to control & manage themselves they aren't going to otherwise just magically pick up the ability.

And if they do not learn as youngsters to do this, they will grow up to be out of control adults that will likely need the law to step in to control & manage them.
I think it is a much better scenario to take the time to instill good conduct in a youngster than to have to have the law step in and "teach" them how to follow that instruction under the confinement of a 8x8 cell.

Ex- Paris Hilton- her Mom did an interview once and she said she NEVER tell her children no. If they want something they can have it......look where that got her. Luckily for her, with her name & wealth it wasn't as bad as it would have been for an average joe's kid.

[P_chan]

Or put them in the corner. I used to hate that. No toys. No talking. No nothing. Ten minutes in a corner feels like an eternity for a kid.

"No mac & cheese for you tonight" was pretty rough punishment for me too.

The corner works, but you have to add something to it. Like the smack in the butt, and the no mac and cheese. Otherwise they will just get used to the corner and it won't bother them.

:edit: Now that I think about it, "No mac & cheese", damn that would be harsh for me as a kid. I love mac & cheese, and still do!

[Tempestuous]

....time out is effective when the consequence is severe enough to warrant a change & the consequences are clear & consistent.

This 1 min per year crap, is a bunch of time wasting CRAP (for the majority of kids I work with)!!!!

[Muku]

time out is effective when the consequence is severe enough to warrant a change & the consequences are clear & consistent.


I agree that consistency is the key.

[Tempestuous]

The corner works, but you have to add something to it. Like the smack in the butt, and the no mac and cheese. Otherwise they will just get used to the corner and it won't bother them.


This is when you up the anti.

They go to corner, time out seat whatever, and come out still having a chip on their shoulder, back in they go for twice the duration. The consequence was not enough to warrant a behavior change, so back at it they go.

An extra carseat with a 5pt harness works well for youngsters as it keeps them from being able to get into things while they sit there, keeps them safe and out of danger as well as teaches them they have to sit, so as they get older they are in the habit of just sitting. Also need to be somewhere away from the happenings of the family/group.

I don't think there is a one size fits all. We have one kid you use a stern voice and he truly changes his behavior.

[Tempestuous]

I agree that consistency is the key.

I think it really plays a big part.

[IndyGal]

I think things you see on a daily basis makes it out that it is okay for kids to be out of control. I know I hear the term "free spirit" a lot. Like if you discipline your child you are squashing their spirit and creativity. I will never forget seeing the remake of the movie "Yours, Mine and Ours". I felt very angry after seeing that. You have the dad's side that the kids are disciplined and well behaved because he is in the military and the mom's side where the kids are "free spirits" and allowed to do whatever they want. Horrible remake of the very good original with Henry Fonda and Lucille Ball. Anyway...

My kids are very well mannered kids. I can honestly say that I have acheived that with very rarely having to spank them. I agree that consistency is the key as well. We too, my husband and I, rarely have used the services of a babysitter. Our kids go most places with us with clear expectations on how they need to behave.

It really irritates me to go to a movie, restaurant or shopping to have to listen to someone's brat. You hear the parent talking in their sweet voice and saying stuff like "That's not nice.", "Now don't do that" while the kid is screaming and beating the crap out of them. Or hearing the parent continue with their threats that you know will never actually happen.

Child rearing is certainly very different from when I was a kid.

[Tempestuous]

I think things you see on a daily basis makes it out that it is okay for kids to be out of control. I know I hear the term "free spirit" a lot. Like if you discipline your child you are squashing their spirit and creativity. I will never forget seeing the remake of the movie "Yours, Mine and Ours". I felt very angry after seeing that. You have the dad's side that the kids are disciplined and well behaved because he is in the military and the mom's side where the kids are "free spirits" and allowed to do whatever they want. Horrible remake of the very good original with Henry Fonda and Lucille Ball. Anyway...

My kids are very well mannered kids. I can honestly say that I have acheived that with very rarely having to spank them. I agree that consistency is the key as well. We too, my husband and I, rarely have used the services of a babysitter. Our kids go most places with us with clear expectations on how they need to behave.

It really irritates me to go to a movie, restaurant or shopping to have to listen to someone's brat. You hear the parent talking in their sweet voice and saying stuff like "That's not nice.", "Now don't do that" while the kid is screaming and beating the crap out of them. Or hearing the parent continue with their threats that you know will never actually happen.

Child rearing is certainly very different from when I was a kid.

I agree with ya.

Or the 1....2.....3....3.25.....3.5......3.75.......THEN parent gets up and the kid stops whatever it was they were doin. They know that parents only mean it when parent cares enough to get up, otherwise they can keep doing whatever it was they were doing.
Kids learn parents don't mean it until the 5th or 6th time they say it, which in certain situations could cost a kid their life, like a parking lot.

[Muku]

Or hearing the parent continue with their threats that you know will never actually happen.
Which is why in my opinion that the kids rule the roost and the parents end up scratching their heads wondering where they went wrong. Kids are spoiled in comparison to when I was a child. Sure I spoil my kids at times too, what parent doesnt. But it isnt because of their antics that I make the choice to spoil them on occasion, rather out of respect for them doing the little things day after day.

I draw a rather flexible line in the sand, it bends but never have I allowed it to break in regards to disciplining my children.

[IndyGal]

Have a few kids just in my neighborhood that are constantly showing up with something new for no reason. We are not talking about some inexpensive toy either. We are talking about a new PSP, or game system, games, MP3, etc. These same kids run around outside with them leave them and lose them. Parents just buy them another. One of my neighbors found a kid's gameboy outside in her back yard. She was pretty sure who it belonged to and held onto it to see if he would come looking for it. Never did after about two weeks she asked him if he had lost his. He said yes, but it didn't matter his mom already bought him a new one.

Had another neighbor that was always buying her kids everything when they wanted. This same kid was trouble. Always threatening her verbally or physically if he didn't get what he wanted or being in the middle of trouble somewhere else but of course he didn't do anything. Anyway when she did actually tell him "no" once he ended up getting caught trying to shoplift the item at the px.

I thought I was a very lucky kid to get a bigger ticket item at Christmas or on my birthday. I would NEVER ask for something like that and think my parents would get it for me just because I wanted it then.

[Hollarey]

Or put them in the corner. I used to hate that. No toys. No talking. No nothing. Ten minutes in a corner feels like an eternity for a kid.

"No mac & cheese for you tonight" was pretty rough punishment for me too.


I make mine sit on the bottom step of the stairs for time out. It works for me and they seem to really hate doing it so when I threaten it(and only I do this once) they seem to straighten up. However, depending on the what they are doing wrong they may go straight to the stairs. When I put them on the stairs though I explain to the what they did wrong and then after their time is up I ask them why they were placed on the stairs and they tell me and apologize as well. Then it usually ends in a great big hug.

Now, I have given my oldest (8) a good smacking on the butt in public when he was doing something to influence the other two to act up. I have also made them stand in a corner in public. Talk about making them feel embarrased.

[Tempestuous]

*smacks head!!*
UGH! What are people thinking?!?!?!(in reference to post #18)

[Hollarey]

....time out is effective when the consequence is severe enough to warrant a change & the consequences are clear & consistent.

This 1 min per year crap, is a bunch of time wasting CRAP!!!!

I use the 1 min. per year...works for me.

[Tempestuous]

I work with children with whom majority of time this technique is ineffective for. But like I later mentioned, I don't think there is a one size fits all or every situation.

@ 9minutes, my kid is just warming up on his over dramatized rant of why he reacted the way he did. And honestly when he gets going......its best to let him sit alone and work it out himself, as you can't try an reason with him as you will will simply drive yourself up the wall & make you both crazy!!! :)

Though after he has sat by himself for a bit, we can usually talk sensibly and handle it.

[IndyGal]

I have also had situations where the parent (I am friends with) isn't getting anywhere with their out of control kid and then threatens them that I will do something to them if they don't straighten up. Or you see someone out with a kid acting out and the parent sees a cop and says they will have them come get them!

[Tempestuous]

I have also had situations where the parent (I am friends with) isn't getting anywhere with their out of control kid and then threatens them that I will do something to them if they don't straighten up. Or you see someone out with a kid acting out and the parent sees a cop and says they will have them come get them!

LoL, thats always a good fear to instill in your kid!!! :)
Now if your kid needs help, they will be afraid to approach a police cause police are out to "get them"

[IndyGal]

But like I later mentioned, I don't think there is a one size fits all or every situation.

Yes, I agree with that. I did home daycare here for two years. Between that and my own kids you do find out that what works for one doesn't always for the other.

[Muku]

*smacks head!!*
UGH! What are people thinking?!?!?!(in reference to post #18)


Spoiled brats, it the nicest thing that comes to mind when I think of kids like that. Well at least that is about all I can actually write here without it getting censored out.:cursing::D

[Hollarey]

Yes, I agree with that. I did home daycare here for two years. Between that and my own kids you do find out that what works for one doesn't always for the other.


I will be finding that out soon when I open my home daycare next month. However, I am not going to spank someone elses child therefore using other methods of punishment will be enforced. There is only so much you can do. Of course if it got so bad that I spend my entire day disciplining one child then I will terminate that child.

[Hollarey]

Speaking of spankings, my youngest just got a good one.

[DoctorP]

I will be finding that out soon when I open my home daycare next month. However, I am not going to spank someone elses child therefore using other methods of punishment will be enforced. There is only so much you can do. Of course if it got so bad that I spend my entire day disciplining one child then I will terminate that child.

In my book termination = death and that is far worse than a time out! Remind me not to let you watch my kids! :scared::D

[Hollarey]

In my book termination = death and that is far worse than a time out! Remind me not to let you watch my kids! :scared::D



I knew putting "termination" would get a comment like that...haha. More so terminating the contract and further care. Not the child itself.....haha.

[DoctorP]

I knew what you meant, but I just couldn't resist!

[ststephen65]

wow, good topic, interseting views. this is something im dealing with right now. my daughter is barely over one year. ive NEVER been around kids until her. like i dont want her not to do something because she fears my wife and i but she is def to young for reasoning. she is def already starting to test us. like we tell her NO and she will inch her way back over to whatever it was she was doing and watching us at the same time. to see what we are going to do. ive been smacking her hand out of the way but i feel terrible doing it.

also, the temper tantrums......what do you do? throwing the tantrum she is looking for a reaction from us. do we give her that reaction or try to ignore her so she will learn that tantrums arent effective for her??????!!!!!!! def a learning situation and the crappy thing is once i fig it out its gonna be to late. i just dont want to end up on a maury povich show 13 yrs from now lol

[P_chan]

If she throws a tantrum just leave here there. Seriously it works, we used it on my little brother. He would throw a tantrum in the store and my mom said "i'm going to leave you here is you keep acting like that". Then she would just go into the next isle, and he would stop, get up, and start looking for her. Usually he would stop his tantrum after that.

[Muku]

I agree with P here as well, the more attention you give her when she is having a tantrum will probably in the long run make her think that if she has a tantrum you will give in to her whims.


she is def already starting to test us. like we tell her NO and she will inch her way back over to whatever it was she was doing and watching us at the same time. to see what we are going to do. ive been smacking her hand out of the way but i feel terrible doing it.

Sometimes the smack is probably necessary, yet another option would be to remove the distraction, if that is not possible then you may have to move her out of the area. Dont give in to her, but be reasonable, it what she doing really "that" bad or is it just an annoyance to you. Only you can answer that and make the necessary judgment.

Noones perfect and dont worry about making mistakes, there is no way you can cover every little detail. Just be firm and consistent. She will get the message eventually. Also have patience and dont give up.

[Hollarey]

Gotta have the Patience!!! Not sure how my patience will be 10 years from now when they are all teenagers. OYE!!!

[dk]

I knew putting "termination" would get a comment like that...haha. More so terminating the contract and further care. Not the child itself.....haha.

In that avatar of yours, is that red stuff in your drink.... blood? :scared:

j/k j/k

[Hollarey]

In that avatar of yours, is that red stuff in your drink.... blood? :scared:

j/k j/k


haha..sure..goes well with the terminating comment. Yeah, you figured me out!!:eek:

[ststephen65]

haha..sure..goes well with the terminating comment. Yeah, you figured me out!!:eek:
lol ha ha ha

[coldnoodles]

My daughter can do whatever she wants, she knows what she can and can't do.. She spends most of her time at school and youth center, she is in all the clubs, volunteers for everything, is in sports. Straight A student, misses lots of school, cuz of her illness. Here those are the things she wants to do. Me and her go everywhere together off base. She helps me around the house as much as she can; she helps cook food and washes the rice, does laundry, does dishes, sweeping floors, and help takes care of her sisters. Here she will go to school, youth center, and sports when she is ill, or has a severe migraine, cuz she rather be there than stay home. And there are some days when she is in too pain she will stay home until the pain lets down some, but still she wants to go to school, youth center, and sports. I always know where she is at and what she does. She tells me everything if she needs something she will call on her cell phone. Here she is losing her vision, she has a 85% chance in going blind, I do let her do the things she wants, before she goes blind and before her illness gets worse. Every 2-3mo I have to buy new lenses for her - higher strength. She doesn't want people to know that she is sick or going blind. She speaks her mind says what she has to say, sorry if it offends you. We always tell her speak her mind, don't shy, speak up. She has lots of great ideas.

I could never hit or spank a child and I never will. Everyone is different and was raised different and learned how to raise their kids from their past.

[DoctorP]

My daughter can do whatever she wants, she knows what she can and can't do..

Do you see the contradiction in this sentence?

Here she will go to school, youth center, and sports when she is ill, or has a severe migraine, cuz she rather be there than stay home.

I hardly know you, and I could say that I would do the same!


She doesn't want people to know that she is sick or going blind.

Thanks to you for announcing it to us!


She speaks her mind says what she has to say, sorry if it offends you. We always tell her speak her mind, don't shy, speak up. She has lots of great ideas.

She will not offend me, and there is nothing wrong with speaking your mind. There is a problem if it leads to disrespect. Do you understand this? Interupting when others are speaking, yelling at authority figures (and this means other adults as well).


My little kids go time out (have to sit in a chair facing wall, no tv on, no nothing), or their dad will pinch them.

Careful there...pinching is considered abuse in some circles!

I could never hit or spank a child and I never will.

I commend you for that, but I do not look down upon those who choose to spank...as I said, spanking and beating are two different things...at least in my book.

[socalheart]

I don't like when a child throws a tantrum or runs around like a little heathen in public, but it's ultimately up to the parent in attendance to control the child's behaviour. According to my mom, my worst public outbursts were touching stuff in stores and walking away to talk to strangers. I probably did worse, but when a parent can only come up with those two things, then the child was disciplined well. My grandmother had nothing bad to say about any of her three children. My aunt is the same. To me, that's blindness. Every child has at least one thing he or she did that required discipline more often than usual, unless a child is catatonic or comatosed.

A child is as free to speak his or her mind in the privacy of the home as is permitted by the parents. It's the parents' responsibility to teach the child what is acceptable to say in public. Unfortunately, some parents have no sense of what is appropriate in public. Eg.: A child casually pointing out that a stranger smells bad is acceptable, but can be corrected politley in public accompanied by an apology. After all, he or she is a child. A child casually cursing at a stranger for smelling bad is unacceptable and should've been stopped in the home.

This is in regards to children, not teenagers. Regardless of how mature a parent believes a child behaves, a young child hasn't the full ability to think maturely. As a child ages, he or she matures into a teenager where they begin to practice maturity learned as a child from parents.

These are my opinions on the discipline of children. Spanking the butt or slapping the hand is acceptable, but beating the child's body is reprehensible and criminal. Scolding a child who consistently misbehaves is understandable, but yelling at child for everything is emotional abuse. Letting a child "get away with murder" is a disservice to the child. We will disicipline our child as best we can, hopefully careful to not repeat the errors of our parents. This is the best a parent can do, because to do nothing is as criminal as doing too much.

My husband and I have discussed disciplining our child. She's not born yet, but we believe it's important to agree on it best we can before it's an issue. He has a son from a prior marriage, who he never disciplined physically. His son is also not spoiled by him, and understands his responsibilities for chores and schoolwork. On the other hand, the boy lives with his mother who holds him in an emotional cage of fear. This is one of those subjects that doesn't have a blanket answer that works for everyone.
(Please pardon this long post. I wasn't able to find a post cut option.)

The following are instances of special needs children of my friends and how they were disciplined, which I share to show disiciplining children is different for each family.

My friend has a child who is a high functioning autistic (Asperger's Syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspergers_syndrome)). She's a single mother. She's yelled at her child since the girl was at least two years old, which is when I met them. She also spanked the child, but never more than on the butt. Time outs didn't work though. The child was in diapers until age four and on the bottle until age six. The mother simply didn't want to deal with the child's rearing, other than to discipline her. They still lived with the child's grandparents at the time, and they spoiled her in every way. When one of her friends tried to guide the child to do a chore, eat her dinner or stop a tantrum, my friend would either ignore the child or give her an excuse to continue carrying on. I believe the only reason the child came out of diapers and off the bottle is due to the boyfriend who took a firm hand in raising the child. Once the child was on track, doing well in school and had a handle on her autism, my friend left the boyfriend of five years for another guy. They now live in her parents' home with a new baby...

My other friend has a child with low functioning autism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism) and a hearing deficiency. For his first three years, she refused to believe anything was wrong with him. Since her husband cheated on her and left her for his "other baby's momma", he's absolutely useless in the rearing of the boy. She taught him how to use the toilet and everything he knows. In the beginning, she ignored the boy and his issues. Although better now, she has a tendency to do it in front of her friends. One day we all attended a birthday party for another friend's girl. The boy, age five, decided he had to relieve himself. His attempt to notify his mother fell on deaf ears. I happened to be watching the children play, and saw the boy begin to remove his clothes in the middle of the living room. (o.O) I told his mom, who yelled at him and dragged the crying boy into the bathroom. They now live with her mother...

[dk]

On with the show. I edited out the generalization. Please don't dwell on that. This discussion can continue.