us navy trips principles anger [Archive]

DougP

08-08-2007, 03:12 PM

I'm guessing its about the latest school entry

Wandering U.S. Navy truck trips school principal’s anger
Date Posted: 2007-08-08

A US military truck drove onto the Maehara High School grounds Monday, went around the rotary, and returned to the main street in the Agena area.

The seconds-long transit triggered an outburst of anger and irritation from Uruma City Assembly members, the Board of Education and the high school principal. Principal Junko Oshiro wants to know “why an American truck came into my school?” She noted it was only last month that an armored vehicle had made an incursion onto the grounds of a nursing school, and “we had asked the American military to say it would never happen again.”

A witness described the truck as “a long type, about two tons, with two military guys in it. The license number was Navy 95 29619, and it came to the rotary from the main entrance to the school, went around the rotary, and back out. It was less than a minute, but we saw it.” A Parent-Teacher Association member asks if “they did it purposely, to get into the school.”

Morikazu Nakamura of the Uruma City Board of Education says “We’ll protest strongly to the military, and discuss with related institutions what to do next.” Maehara High School is asking the Naha Self Defense Agency to investigate and tell the truth. The Self Defense Agency says “we are checking with the American military. Please wait.”

P_chan

08-08-2007, 03:20 PM

The whole situation seems like it was blown way out of proportion if you ask me.

JUNewsBot

08-08-2007, 03:31 PM

JUNewsBot Has Just Posted the Following:

A US military truck drove onto the Maehara High School grounds Monday, went around the rotary, and returned to the main street in the Agena area.The seconds-long transit triggered an outburst of anger and irritation from Uruma City Assembly members, the Board of Education and the high school principal.

Click here to view the article. (http://www.japanupdate.com/?id=7811)

Feel free to hold a discussion regarding this article here.

Muku

08-08-2007, 03:34 PM

Firstly and foremost thank you for posting the article.

Secondly and this is not directed towards DougP, I would like to request that whomever is responsible for the original article rephrase the following statement, that is if it came from JU.

She noted it was only last month that an armored vehicle had made an incursion onto the grounds of a nursing school,
It was the high school for the handicapped

U.S. armored vehicle enters Okinawa school for handicapped (http://www.japantoday.com/jp/news/412881)

Next in response to the Fonze here who wrote;

people make mistakes when driving all the time. this could've been a new driver to oki and confused by the streets. how ridiculus to say an icursion like they came in with ground troops, apache helicopters, and tanks waving the american flag. then the pta wondering if they did it on purpose to get in to the school like they rape and pillaged it. WAA WAA WAA even if ndsa says it was a mistake the people are going to cry foul
Damn straight they are going to cry foul, with all justification as well. Next time I hope the damn truck rolls into your front yard to make a Uturn and see how the hell you feel.

The military does try hard at training its folks to use discretion when driving their vehicles on the roads here in Okinawa. However for what ever reason the driver should have used better sense than to use a private driveway, whether he or she knew it was a school or otherwise, to make his u turn.

There was a lack of training somewhere, and that is where the problem is. Unless of course the driver was just out on a joy ride somewhere. Which has been known to happen. I have often seen US Military vehicles parked at Lawson, as an example, an truly wondered wtf were they doing there.

Next time I see one, after all this bs, I am going to call the Road Master or PMO and let them know that their vehicles are in unauthorized locations.

Your comments here Fonze are something I might expect from............:cursing:

Muku

08-08-2007, 03:36 PM

The whole situation seems like it was blown way out of proportion if you ask me.
Purely depends on which side of the fence you are sitting on. I dont blame the principal one bit for getting upset, not after what happened previously and the military stating that they would take all care an precaution in ensuring that it doesnt happen again.

3 weeks later similar situation.....what kind of precaution is that?

The license number was Navy 95 29619,
I'm glad they got the license number, so they should be able to figure out who was driving the damn truck at the time.

Time to make an example out of somebody here.

Muku

08-08-2007, 03:37 PM

Already a thread started here.... (http://www.japanupdate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=810)

No need for two now is there?

Fonze

08-08-2007, 04:07 PM

i hope that it was a mistake and next time they take precautions but there was no mention of people in the area of were the truck turned. you uchi make it seem like the truck tore down a fence rolled over kids and the driver was drunk with mad rage against the school. GET A CLUE WAWAWAWAW

Fonze

08-08-2007, 04:10 PM

i would understand if they rolled in my lawn and chewed it up as long as it wasn't a deliberate and i wouldn't cry about it

08-08-2007, 04:17 PM

This is the official thread, created by the JUNewsBot. :P

Already a thread started here.... (http://www.japanupdate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=810)

No need for two now is there?

I'll merge the threads when I get a few minutes.

Muku

08-08-2007, 04:26 PM

i would understand if they rolled in my lawn and chewed it up as long as it wasn't a deliberate and i wouldn't cry about it

Ok how about if it was the Mexican Army or the Israeli SDF, then how would you feel?

Fonze

08-08-2007, 04:32 PM

Muku

08-08-2007, 04:33 PM

I'll merge the threads when I get a few minutes

Thank you very much.

Unbashfully making an unneeded reply just to up my post count to be able to waste a few more minutes playing in the arcade. :(:):D

08-08-2007, 04:35 PM

You sure uchinamuku is Japanese?

Muku

08-08-2007, 04:38 PM

you fail to remember this thing called WWII in which ur country got put in its place after something it did! america is not here cause it said hey theres an island lets occupy it.. expect the US here for many years to come. your questiopn has no merit
It has plenty of merit, I am attempting to get to you think about it from someone elses point of view.

america is not here cause it said hey theres an island lets occupy it..
Actually from my point of view yes it is. The US didnt occupy every piece of territory it took during WWII. It had a plan and a purpose for staying in Okinawa, and for continuing to stay here.

Dont ever think that WWII or what happened is something that I will forget. Not that you would know this and just to let you know, I had relatives from both sides of my family, my wifes and mine, that were killed here in Okinawa. That of course is another story.

Muku

08-08-2007, 04:41 PM

You sure uchinamuku is Japanese?

For those of you that dont know or weren't sure, or even if you really couldn't give a >>>>>> one way or the other, and just to let you and everyone else know,I am American.

On the same thought here btw...Uchinamuku means that I am the husband of an Okinawan woman, and I am not Okinawan.

But thanks for putting that there, I was begining to think that Fonze thought I was Japanese or Okinawan as well:D

Fonze

08-08-2007, 04:51 PM

DougP

08-08-2007, 04:58 PM

on the ligher side of things here's what it may have looked like :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/DougGTR32/school.jpg

btw not sure where the orig came from but you're right the incident that occurred a few weeks back was not at a nursing home.

08-08-2007, 05:00 PM

I should take that picture and slap it on the website to accompany the original story. :D

Fonze

08-08-2007, 05:00 PM

nice picture

DougP

08-08-2007, 05:01 PM

I should take that picture and slap it on the website to accompany the original story. its ok by me lol

nice picture

thanx

Muku

08-08-2007, 05:03 PM

but u sure as hell take one side(japanese), and uchi u make it seem like they didn't use the road. also your point of view is wrong, they occupied it as soon as they landed and 12,000 americans died

TO THE VICTOR THE SPOILS
Yes I often take the Japanese or Okinawan's side on many issues like this. The US military are guests here, no longer the hosts.

Dude the war ended over 60 years ago, time to use a time machine and get into the 21 Century with the rest of us.

No I never said they didnt use the road, however they did travel on private property, abeit school property, still private property and THAT was improper.

@doug....great picture there, you work rather quickly with photoshop huh!:first:

P_chan

08-08-2007, 05:04 PM

08-08-2007, 05:06 PM

I bet you none of the student population really cared. More then likely they started shouting "gaijin da!!".

I can understand both sides of the story. I can understand how the teachers would be a little peeved, but come on. COME ON. It's not like they parked there all day or got out and had a cigarette.

Edit: woops, I thought this was about an Elementary school. Ignore the kancho remark. :p

Muku

08-08-2007, 05:09 PM

i can understand being a little upset but not that upset. It's not like it was doing donuts or burnouts in the front lawn, it just turned around. I bet more then half of the student population didn't give two shits about it either.

The students were, excuse me are on vacation, and you miss the entire point of the matter. It's the arrogance that the drivers showed,and a lack of judgement.

Lets put it this way, I am trying to find an example that will get it through to you that dont get it yet.......

Ok how about a Japanese ASDF Jet making a touch and go at Kadena Airbase without permission?

Or a JSDF truck going through the gate at Camp Lester and making a uturn, without stopping and asking permission first?

Really tongue in cheek here, how about if I just walked into your house to use the bathroom because I had to take a dump?

Would you make a big deal about it?

DougP

08-08-2007, 05:10 PM

@doug....great picture there, you work rather quickly with photoshop huh!

ha ha more like MS paint, I need to get photoshop

08-08-2007, 05:14 PM

Your house is a little more private than public school grounds. Pretty much anyone can drive onto public school grounds. I've gotton lost and had to make u-turns in private residential areas. Who's to say that the drivers didn't simply make a mistake? Why should they be punished when it's simply not a huge deal.

From the story:

...it came to the rotary from the main entrance to the school, went around the rotary, and back out. It was less than a minute, but we saw it.”
It was less than a minute. That's about what it takes for me to back myself out of a public/private area when I get lost. They didn't get out of their truck and hang out with the schoolgirls in the lobby or grab a cup of coffee in the teachers' lounge. They got in and got out. A simple mistake.
A Parent-Teacher Association member asks if “they did it purposely, to get into the school.”
Yeah, because the simplest explanation is usually wrong, right? The simplest explanation being that they made a wrong turn.

DougP

08-08-2007, 05:16 PM

Why would they want to get into the school? Did they forget their books?
Come on..

P_chan

08-08-2007, 05:18 PM

The students were, excuse me are on vacation, and you miss the entire point of the matter. It's the arrogance that the drivers showed,and a lack of judgement.

Lets put it this way, I am trying to find an example that will get it through to you that dont get it yet.......

Ok how about a Japanese ASDF Jet making a touch and go at Kadena Airbase without permission?

Or a JSDF truck going through the gate at Camp Lester and making a uturn, without stopping and asking permission first?

Really tongue in cheek here, how about if I just walked into your house to use the bathroom because I had to take a dump?

Would you make a big deal about it?

Those are TOTALLY different circumstances. Trust me I get it but it was blown out of proportion I don't care what you say. How about they make the U turn in a busy intersection like the rest of the dumb asses on this island and hold up a bunch of traffic and possibly cause an accident? People are calling for some heads to roll because someone made a U turn, clean the sand out of your vagina an move on.

Sure they kids are on vacation but they can't care about what happens back at their school while their on vacation?

PS: If you took a dump in my house I would take a dump on your face.

08-08-2007, 05:19 PM

Pchan, tone it down a little and calm down. No need to get worked up.

Fonze

08-08-2007, 05:20 PM

Muku

08-08-2007, 05:20 PM

Your house is a little more private than public school grounds. Pretty much anyone can drive onto public school grounds. I've gotton lost and had to make u-turns in private residential areas. Who's to say that the drivers didn't simply make a mistake?

From the story:

It was less than a minute. That's about what it takes for me to back myself out of a public/private area when I get lost. They didn't get out of their truck and hang out with the schoolgirls in the lobby or grab a cup of coffee in the teachers' lounge. They got in and got out. A simple mistake.

Yeah, because the simplest explanation is usually wrong, right? The simplest explanation being that they made a wrong turn.

Doesnt matter if it took 10 seconds or not, the principal is within her right to complain. It is an incident, that will put more pressure on the US military to keep its people in line and not have things like this happen.

Look at it this way, it was unwanted and unwarranted, granted it was probably an honest mistake, but there was no need for it to happen.

I feel for the idiots that made the mistake, however I appreciate more the concerns that the Okinawan community has about thoughtless actions like this by the US military.
Why should they be punished when it's simply not a huge deal.

That's the military, sometimes you make mistakes you have to pay for them.

P_chan

08-08-2007, 05:22 PM

08-08-2007, 05:25 PM

Doesnt matter if it took 10 seconds or not, the principal is within her right to complain. It is an incident, that will put more pressure on the US military to keep its people in line and not have things like this happen.

Look at it this way, it was unwanted and unwarranted, granted it was probably an honest mistake, but there was no need for it to happen.

I feel for the idiots that made the mistake, however I appreciate more the concerns that the Okinawan community has about thoughtless actions like this by the US military.

That's the military, sometimes you make mistakes you have to pay for them.
I can understand what you're saying, I just don't see it as a big deal. I do agree that the teachers had every right to complain, but the fact that this made headlines just shocks me. Back in the day you had to do something terrible like rape someone to make the news. Now it seems like any little thing will get you attention.

I sometimes wonder about these stories being placed into our (I work for JU) paper. I'm wondering if the editor decided to post it in the paper to get a rise out of you guys, or to point out how overreactive the locals are about little :cursing: sometimes.

They have every right to complain. If a fleet of local police cars dropped by my office just to make a u-turn, I'd be pissed off. I can understand they felt threatened, but geez.

Muku

08-08-2007, 05:26 PM

if you want to make others see ur point can u at least agree with the rest of us and think it over before crying bloody murder. if its so bad gather ur anti base people and make a stand. like the other guy said not that many give a shit.
No, I am sorry I do not need to agree with anything I dont think is right, and I havent cried murder either.

the war isn't that long gone for me and others maybe just you and ur few
OK are you a WWII vet? Maybe then I can understand a bit better where you are coming from.

DoctorP

08-08-2007, 05:28 PM

P_chan

08-08-2007, 05:29 PM

Dude I wish I had footsie pjs, legend of zelda footsie pjs.

But something more on topic. Like I said earlier I can see why they were upset. But, they don't need to make such a big deal about it, especially since the kids aren't even in class right now. Thats like shooting the McDonald's cook because he got your order wrong.

Ever see that SNL skit with will ferrel and he is that office supervisor and people make small mistakes and he explodes on them? Yeah it's kinda like that.

LOL now I want to watch that dvd. "I am this close to raping you!!"

Fonze

08-08-2007, 05:30 PM

my great uncle was, were u . now what?

08-08-2007, 05:30 PM

Yeah, good point DoctorP. Maybe I'd understand the other side better if I could actually grasp the actual size of these trucks.

08-08-2007, 05:31 PM

Ever see that SNL skit with will ferrel and he is that office supervisor and people make small mistakes and he explodes on them? Yeah it's kinda like that.

LOL now I want to watch that dvd. "I am this close to raping you!!"
No need to watch the dvd. That's one of the first posts I made in the funny video's topic.

P_chan

08-08-2007, 05:32 PM

I understand why they were upset. Why use the school? Why couldn't they go further down the road and turn around in a large parking lot, or circle a block?

The big reason people get upset over things like this though is how does it happen? The drivers are supposed to be briefed about where they are going and have some idea how to get there. If you are getting lost, perhaps you shouldn't be driving! I'm not talking about POV's, but when we are talking military trucks from 2-7 tons, yeah!

Thats what I was thinking too, why not just go around the block. Then I remember how the roads are in okinawa. They would have to find another major street and who knows when that will connect back to their original route. That is unless you know the streets really well around here.

BTW, I love your pic of the school yard DougP. We should make an art gallery on the forum and put it in there. I'm still laughing at it!

Muku

08-08-2007, 05:36 PM

my great uncle was, were u . now what?
My father fought in WWII, I lost an Uncle here in Okinawa, and another somewhere off the Philippines. I guess that puts me one up one you.:D

60 years is ancient history to people like you and me, you shouldnt be carrying a grudge unless of course you were educated or brainwashed into thinking so, I dont know which.

sometimes wonder about these stories being placed into our (I work for JU) paper. I'm wondering if the editor decided to post it in the paper to get a rise out of you guys, or to point out how overreactive the locals are about little sometimes.

They have every right to complain. If a fleet of local police cars dropped by my office just to make a u-turn, I'd be pissed off. I can understand they felt threatened, but geez.
Actually I think it's great he does, at least then you get an idea of what the Japanese are reading in their newspapers. Just wait this one will hit the TV news as well.

No these little incidents have been reported in the Japanese/Okinawan press for ages now, it isnt something new. It's just something new for many of the Americans to hear about it now.

08-08-2007, 05:37 PM

Yeah, you're probably right. I guess JU was just a little more selective before, and this is my primary source for English news about Okinawa.

Muku

08-08-2007, 05:44 PM

Yeah, you're probably right. I guess JU was just a little more selective before, and this is my primary source for English news about Okinawa.

FYI I dont have, or should I say didn't have or need an English source for news about what happens here in Okinawa. I have always relied on the Japanese sources, mainly TV.

I have found some of the articles in JU rather interesting. Yet unfortunately on occasion I have found mistakes in what has been reported.:(

08-08-2007, 05:46 PM

Yep, a few others have pointed out mistakes as well. Wish I worked for a perfect company, but like the rest of you, the company I work for has its own flaws. :p

One being my dang salary. :army:

N3philum

08-08-2007, 06:49 PM

Uchi.. if i was to take my car and make a U-turn in your driveway... without asking.. would you get pissed at me?

It is kind of the same thing.. they came into a parking lot.. and left.. it just happened to be a school parking lot. The biggest reason why (if I were driving) I would not continue down the street and turn around later is 1. If im U-turning.. I am already lost. Continuing on would probably get me more lost. 2. The signs are in Japanese (a foreign language) and it would be difficult for me to find my way back. (Maybe not so much me but the driver probably doesnt know his way around the island. )

I am NOT saying it was okay.. but I really dont think the guy needs to be made an example of for turning around. As a matter of fact, if anyone was talked to it would be his Assistant Driver. He should have been the one watching where he was going.. ensuring he made the correct turns, and in general helping the driver get around. The driver should be focused 100 percent on driving. I have as much love for Okinawa and its people as anyone else, but making an example of someone just because he got lost is VERY extreme. They didnt hurt anyone in ANY WAY WHAT SO EVER. They didnt damage ANY property WHAT SO EVER. A simple apology (IMO) would suffice.

08-08-2007, 06:57 PM

### PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT ###

I deleted a few of the posts (bukake, bathrobes, etc) for having no relevance whatsoever to the topic. I try to not get out of hand with my finger on the trigger, but felt that a few things would be better off left out. I'm sure there are other off-topic posts in here, but I'm hungry and I want my dinner. Try to stay on topic as much as possible. A few jokes from time to time is fine, but continuous one-liners isn't all that necessary in this section of the forums. :p

Sorry for being a forum nazi. I know some of you won't appreciate the deletions, but it's what I saw fit to do in this case.

### PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT ###

Muku

08-08-2007, 07:05 PM

DoctorP

08-08-2007, 07:07 PM

I wouldn't like a military vehicle doing this in my driveway...it has actually happened twice, at two different houses. I also don't like it if a delivery truck does the same thing. Now if you are talking a sedan then I don't have a problem with it.

Muku

08-08-2007, 07:13 PM

Yep, a few others have pointed out mistakes as well. Wish I worked for a perfect company, but like the rest of you, the company I work for has its own flaws. :p

I understand and agree with you, however and please dont take this wrong, I think that as a part of the "media" your company is or should be held to a different set of standards, or should I say higher? At least with regards to the "news" that you publish. If you are inaccurate in your reporting or publishing of material there are consequesnces as well, is that correct?

I might be out of bounds here in saying this and I truly mean no insult either but it isnt like JU is just this forum where people can post and make comments in any fashion they choose, without having to backup what they say is it?

Granted even mainstream media makes mistakes from time to time, and they get taken to the carpet for it as well. Not suggesting that this should happen to JU.

One being my dang salary. :army
You are not alone.:eek::crying:

N3philum

08-08-2007, 07:14 PM

DoctorP

08-08-2007, 07:19 PM

Exactly the point i was making though.. If a "passenger vehicle" made a u-turn in my driveway.. not big deal. small vehicle .. small road.

Military vehicle made a u-turn in a "big" school "driveway".

No Harm.. No Foul

I would have to see the school in question...but most of the schools I have visited, I would not call the driveway "big". Either way, I would not want a truck turning around at the school. As I said earlier, use a large parking lot, or a cross street...I don't put the blame on the driver though...I suspect the a-driver was sleeping, and usually (at least in my day) the a-driver is required to be senior to the actual driver...so he would be more at fault!

N3philum

08-08-2007, 07:24 PM

required (Marine) to be an NCO not sure about Navy or Airforce

08-08-2007, 07:25 PM

I understand and agree with you, however and please dont take this wrong, I think that as a part of the "media" your company is or should be held to a different set of standards, or should I say higher? At least with regards to the "news" that you publish. If you are inaccurate in your reporting or publishing of material there are consequesnces as well, is that correct?
I wholeheartedly agree that this company should be held to a high standard with their accuracy. You will find no disagreement from me on this.

I might be out of bounds here in saying this and I truly mean no insult either but it isnt like JU is just this forum where people can post and make comments in any fashion they choose, without having to backup what they say is it?
No, JU isn't just this forum, etc, but I am. My job here is to serve as the webmaster. JU staff sends me news (that I trust they've been accurate in putting together), pictures, etc, and I put it online. I also take care of all the classifieds and deal with a lot of customer support via email. I have no other part in this company besides the actually programming that goes into the various content management systems that run this website as well as day to day administrative duties.

So I don't take any offense whatsoever because at least I'm doing my job right. All I can really do is complain to the editor that he needs to be more accurate with his stories because it's making the company as a whole look bad whenever a big mistake is found.

But he reads these forums, so I'm sure he'll see your comments. :)

Granted even mainstream media makes mistakes from time to time, and they get taken to the carpet for it as well. Not suggesting that this should happen to JU.
It wouldn't bother me if we were criticized from time to time on our *real* mistakes. I say real because some complaints are just complaining and other complaints actually have substance. Yer website suxxors doesn't count as a real complaint. :p Stuff like you've posted about our accuracy does.

You are not alone.:eek::crying:
I'm hoping my boss sees that part I wrote about my salary. lol.

Crazysix

08-08-2007, 10:02 PM

I dont ubderstand the problem as many as you don`t, other than a reason to complain about something, Mein Gott, the driver made a U turn, end of case. Some of you are close to the okinawans, Im not nor do I feel a need to sympathize with every little problem they have, as far as someone mentioned if a foriegn military made a U turn, honestly as long as they were safe about it no problem. To me everyone is still pissed about he rape that occured back in 95,no matter how sad and disgusting it was, its the past and it happens everyday, with little or no news coverage,, this was the catalyst that sparked all the overt anti base sentiment. Mistakes happen and no one one this island is treated like a concured people, I dont have any Okinawan slaves or serveants, we do treat people with respect most of the time with more than they deserve. If those of you who feel so draw to the Okinawans plee for justice, I suggest you redirect your energy to something useful, like having WWII actually taught rather than a quick brief, go into the battles and events that lead up to Japans defeat and the use of the bomb. The principle should also take note as should any other anti-base sympathizer, that USFORJAPAN have bent over backwards for the japanese, more so than any other host country. In closing get over it mistakes happen.

socalheart

08-08-2007, 10:57 PM

The JUNewsbot thing posted the original article, so you may read what they quoted the principal saying about the previous incident. Perhaps you could recommend that JU should print a retraction to conform to your post about the school you mentioned.

I think the principal overreacted to the situation. I do think the driver used poor judgement in using the school rotary as a turn-around point. I also like to believe that the driver simply didn't know where he or she was at the time the turn-around was necessary.

Even I have used a police station, public school (many times), fire station parking lot or private driveway to turn myself around. True, I'm not in a cammo-painted eighteen wheeler, but driver err is human. I'm lucky enough that I'm able to ask directions in what sounds like Japanese. heh. (And if the driver was a man, you know they never ask directions... heh. I'm just kidding; don't get bent.)

Fonze

08-08-2007, 11:26 PM

Few Agree With You Here Uchi As Im Sure In The Public, Would You Rather The Truck Had Blocked Traffic And Flipped A U-turn In The Road, That Wouldv'e Affected Alot More Of The Pop And Maybe U Wouldv'e Like That

08-08-2007, 11:46 PM

It's Cool To Type Like This? :confused:

I'm Just Wondering Because Everytime I've Ever Had To Read Writing Like This, I've Wanted To Puncture My Right Lung With A Traffic Cone Just To Escape The Agony.

08-08-2007, 11:53 PM

Man, stick to a writing style. All lowercase is cool. That's fine. I'm just... man, who types like that?! :scared: Do they teach that somewhere?

socalheart

08-09-2007, 12:03 AM

dude. i missed something somewhere. i must be tired. when i posted a reply less than hour ago (?), i only saw the one page. now there are eight pages. whoa. i need sugar... :scared:

08-09-2007, 12:23 AM

You missed this thread. It's been going on since this afternoon. :)

Fonze

08-09-2007, 01:16 AM

I Think The Forum Does This When You Type In All Capital

08-09-2007, 01:22 AM

Ah, maybe try not typing in all caps then. BECAUSE THAT'S LIKE SCREAMING AT SOMEONE.

Not trying to offend, but do people still not know better? If you haven't been on the web very long, I'll give an explanation:

small tiny text like this isn't offensive and is generally accepted, though slightly looked down upon because if you can't take the time to properly form a sentance based on english standards, why should anyone take the time to read your post.

AN ALL CAPS MESSAGE LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE PISSED OFF AT SOMEONE

And This Just Looks Like You Can't Quite Grasp The Idea That Standards Exist.

I'm sincerely not trying to offend. If you don't know any better, it's all good. But worst case scenario, go all lowercase. People will appreciate it more.

socalheart

08-09-2007, 01:26 AM

for me, all lowercase is me being lazy. :D

08-09-2007, 01:27 AM

All lowercase is just fine. I went with that for several years. :p But all caps is like

HAY GUYS! WHAT'S GOING ON?! COOKING MARSHMELLOWS ARE YA?! WOW!

08-09-2007, 02:04 AM

And, in case anyone throws a ___-fit at me for heavily moderating this thread yet allowing my posts on proper forum etiquette to stay, I will be moving my posts very soon as well.

It's not against the rules to type in all-caps. It's just kind of... unacceptable? You will get ridiculed, and belittled, and I won't do a thing about it in your defense. So now's a good time to pick that up.

Misspellings are not a huge issue. Ur welcome to spell words wrong 4 ever. Nobody ever seems to ever have a HUGE problem with that. Just don't nail us with a wall of text, ALL FREAKIN CAPS, or Whatever In The World This IS and we'll all get along just fine.

DoctorP

08-09-2007, 02:09 AM

08-09-2007, 02:11 AM

This story actually was in S&S today too. The big point of this story is that this was the 3rd incident in a month. I think we can all understand how/why they are ticked off over such a "small" incident to many of you.
Third? I knew it was at least the second. Can you give me a quick summary of the other two? I'm missing one.

DoctorP

08-09-2007, 02:23 AM

Let's see...according to the story...

On July 18th a LAV stopped at the Okinawa High school for the Disabled
That same day (I believe) 7 LAV's stopped at the flea market in Ginoza
Now this one with the truck turning around.

Muku

08-09-2007, 06:35 AM

Few Agree With You Here Uchi As Im Sure In The Public,
Depends on which public you are refering to, and btw posting here is not a popularity contest for me. I dont give a damn if you or anyone else for that matter agrees with me or not.

Like you wrote in a previous post;
if you want to make others see ur point can u at least agree with the rest of us and think it over before crying bloody murder.
If you need that feeling of acceptance, well and good for you. I don't, I think I have gotten past the age of caring about what anyone and everyone thinks about who I am or what I write.

That same day (I believe) 7 LAV's stopped at the flea market in Ginoza
Yeah, Doc P is right about this one. However it was duly reported as well that the appropriate commander notified the local authorities that the LAV's would be stopping there for a brief safety check. The people at the market were rather surprised, but the Marines finished their checks in less than a couple of minutes each and there were no problems.

Not really an incident in this case as the authorities were notified and it was in a location that frequently has military traffic. So it was not unexpected. Side note here; military vehicles often break down on the Xway here nobody notices, it isnt a big deal. I agree as well, no biggie.

What they hell was the Navy truck doing anywhere near the school in the first place? Lack of training, and like DocP wrote the A drivers responsibility. Question here, do all services on island require an A driver when going off base?

Boost

08-09-2007, 06:45 AM

While I will agree the I don't think it was that big of a deal, I am sure the driver of this vehicle could have found a more suitable place to perform the U-turn. I am not familiar with the area that the incident took place, but I am sure there would be somewhere he could have turned around that would have been less intrusive.

silviasichigo

08-09-2007, 01:18 PM

Depends on which public you are refering to, and btw posting here is not a popularity contest for me. I dont give a damn if you or anyone else for that matter agrees with me or not.

Like you wrote in a previous post;

If you need that feeling of acceptance, well and good for you. I don't, I think I have gotten past the age of caring about what anyone and everyone thinks about who I am or what I write.

Yeah, Doc P is right about this one. However it was duly reported as well that the appropriate commander notified the local authorities that the LAV's would be stopping there for a brief safety check. The people at the market were rather surprised, but the Marines finished their checks in less than a couple of minutes each and there were no problems.

Not really an incident in this case as the authorities were notified and it was in a location that frequently has military traffic. So it was not unexpected. Side note here; military vehicles often break down on the Xway here nobody notices, it isnt a big deal. I agree as well, no biggie.

What they hell was the Navy truck doing anywhere near the school in the first place? Lack of training, and like DocP wrote the A drivers responsibility. Question here, do all services on island require an A driver when going off base?

First of all none of you have any idea why they were there lost or not. YOU are ALL speculating on this matter. Okinawa/Japanese media is one sided/ biased news that only hits on things they care for the public to see, I have watched it every day for that past 10 years because I don't have sky perfect and I hate AFN. Uchinamuku, you are the total opposite of Fonze as far as points of view go. Reading you post you seem like a very bitter person ready to pounce on anyone who has an opinion. Back to the point No one knows what the guy was thinking and as far as the guy getting reprimanded he was Navy they do things differently than the Marine Corps as far as military vehicles and the road. So despite the attention he received from the media I doubt anything more than an “I am sorry will happen” Big Deal he u-turned in a school parking lot with a military truck, if the JSDF would have drove to a base they would have been stopped by the Gate by guess what the gate guard, and probably been told sure make a u-turn, as far as the jet landing on Kadena come on that is just ridiculous if it would have been damaged and had to make a landing I am pretty sure the ELP would have been in effect.

Fonze

08-09-2007, 01:25 PM

Muku

08-09-2007, 02:23 PM

Uchi i would be interested in knowing how many anti-base functions you've attended, basically to see if your'e just a talker or if actually walk for what you believe. The reason is that your post here might lead to you actually starting a movement with you and the principle in the lead.to see if your'e actually doing something the okinawan cause.

Now then, noone has actually asked me what my opinion is about the bases here, and some of you have gone right ahead and made a whole bunch of assumptions. Are you familiar with the phrase about people who make assumptions?

I have been attempting to illuminate you and a few others here on how many Okinawan's feel about issues like this. All you and others have done is sit here and defend them without taking a moment to think about it from another angle. Yet I fear that you choose to stay in your own little corner of the world and belittle the Okinawan and Japanese people for complaining about issues like this. That is sad.

That my friend is also being narrow minded, and that is what causes conflict between people, failure to look at all sides of the issue at hand.

Keep your thoughts and your opinions, doesnt bother me one iota, however I will continue to voice my thoughts and opinions on these and other matters as I see fit.

DougP

08-09-2007, 02:25 PM

Now then, noone has actually asked me what my opinion is about the bases here, and some of you have gone right ahead and made a whole bunch of assumptions. Are you familiar with the phrase about people who make assumptions?

I have been attempting to illuminate you and a few others here on how many Okinawan's feel about issues like this. All you and others have done is sit here and defend them without taking a moment to think about it from another angle. Yet I fear that you choose to stay in your own little corner of the world and belittle the Okinawan and Japanese people for complaining about issues like this. That is sad.

That my friend is also being narrow minded, and that is what causes conflict between people, failure to look at all sides of the issue at hand.

Keep your thoughts and your opinions, doesnt bother me one iota, however I will continue to voice my thoughts and opinions on these and other matters as I see fit.

What's your opinion of the bases here?

silviasichigo

08-09-2007, 02:32 PM

How about this Why don't you "Illuminate" everyone on how on RBC, OTV that the only thing that makes the local news is a problem that some American Military person has does something wrong. THe only other major news I see is murders in Mainland Kids dying, people jumping off bridges. "Illuminate" the rest of us on how the Okinawa people as a whole (That is who you seem to be representing) feel about that as well. NO ONE says not to voice your opinion but to be abrasive and raw is just lame and makes no one care for your opinion. That is just me. I honestly have no idea who you are you could be the coolest guy I have ever met but jeez lighten up.

Muku

08-09-2007, 02:32 PM

First of all none of you have any idea why they were there lost or not. YOU are ALL speculating on this matter.
Quite true, but to throw this back your way, what in the world were they doing needing to turn around in a school courtyard in the first place, lost or otherwise?

Okinawa/Japanese media is one sided/ biased news that only hits on things they care for the public to see,
Yes so it is, do you know of any media that isn't? One can hardly blame them either.

When you have a large portion of the population against having the bases here in the first place issues like this help to turn public opinion away from having them here.

Remember Subic?

Reading you post you seem like a very bitter person ready to pounce on anyone who has an opinion.
Bitter? Interesting choice of words, I would say I thought I was coming across as annoyed at ignorance of a different culture.

Big Deal he u-turned in a school parking lot with a military truck,
Yes it is a big deal.:) Refer to paragraph one here.

Oh and the examples I gave were just that, examples, I know damn well they wouldn't happen, one reason being the JSDF would have more common sense than to use a school to make a Uturn. I am sorry you took them so literally that was not the intent.

Muku

08-09-2007, 02:40 PM

How about this Why don't you "Illuminate" everyone on how on RBC, OTV that the only thing that makes the local news is a problem that some American Military person has does something wrong.
True enough, they do not want to put a decent face to the US Military being here in Okinawa. I personally have issues with all 4 TV news outlets here, you missed NHK and QAB, not paying more attention to the community activities that the Military particpates in.

THe only other major news I see is murders in Mainland Kids dying, people jumping off bridges. "Illuminate" the rest of us on how the Okinawa people as a whole (That is who you seem to be representing) feel about that as well.
Different subject, different issues. I might suggest a different thread?:)

NO ONE says not to voice your opinion but to be abrasive and raw is just lame and makes no one care for your opinion. That is just me. I honestly have no idea who you are you could be the coolest guy I have ever met but jeez lighten up

Thanks for the vote of confidence, however if you stop and reread some of the replies I have written you might get a better insight on where they are coming from and more importantly who they were in reply to. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

P_chan

08-09-2007, 02:40 PM

I have been attempting to illuminate you and a few others here on how many Okinawan's feel about issues like this. All you and others have done is sit here and defend them without taking a moment to think about it from another angle. Yet I fear that you choose to stay in your own little corner of the world and belittle the Okinawan and Japanese people for complaining about issues like this. That is sad.

I have looked at it from the okinawan's point of few and I still think it was blown out of proportion. Like I said before, I understand being upset especially since it has happened before. However, saying things like they were trying to get into the school on purpose is just asinine.

DougP

08-09-2007, 02:49 PM

Well from what I've gathered from friends, in laws, my wife etc. (all okinawan) It really isn't that big of a deal. In fact when we read about it in the paper my wife just rolled her eyes.

08-09-2007, 02:50 PM

However, saying things like they were trying to get into the school on purpose is just asinine.
I completely agree.

Muku

08-09-2007, 03:00 PM

What's your opinion of the bases here?
I was waiting for this one....thanks for not making me wait too long:).

I am a realist when it comes to the issue of having the bases here in Okinawa. There is truly very little that the local people can do to change the current situation any time soon either. I am not against the bases here in Okinawa , just that the bases, in my opinion, could be better organized as to ease the burdens that the Okinawans truly have.

Also I feel that the national government here needs to grow a bigger backbone and force other prefectures in mainland to take some of these bases away from here.

Living, working and depending upon the bases for a living under SOFA status and then in the local community rather far away from any bases has opened my eyes up to a different reality of what the Military is here in Okinawa.

I could reminisce about the way things were here a long time ago, but that would be counter productive. I also believe that in comparison to the past the US Military has done a tremdous job of working at alleviating the incidents that occur off base.

A bit off topic in relation to the question but one of the best moves I think it made was increasing the number of accompanied tours that it grants. I personally believe that a person feels much more comfortable in their environment if they have their family around as well.

I could go on, but for now I think that this explains my position a little bit.

Thanks for asking:D

Muku

08-09-2007, 03:02 PM

However, saying things like they were trying to get into the school on purpose is just asinine.

Could you please refresh my memory here, who wrote that they were trying to get into the school on purpose?

Thank you.

08-09-2007, 03:04 PM

It's in the story at the very bottom Uchinamuku.

A Parent-Teacher Association member asks if “they did it purposely, to get into the school.”

Fonze

08-09-2007, 03:08 PM

Muku

08-09-2007, 03:09 PM

It's in the story at the very bottom Uchinamuku.

Thank you, I know it's semantics here but was it a question or statement made by the PTA member. I would just like to know.

A Parent-Teacher Association member asks if “they did it purposely, to get into the school.”

Either way, the PTA member is, in my opinion, probably off their rocker. However and dont everyone here go and get crazy on me here for saying this but, probably was concerned that someone was going to snatch one of the kids.

Muku

08-09-2007, 03:11 PM

youre also making assumptions to say we are taking one angle just cause we dont agree with ur radical one sided view you. you havent made any suggestion to be open to the other side. I can agree with the reasonable view that they should have back up plans to driving and use caution, but to think narrow mindedly like uchi as to ASSUME that the driver said hey lets hurt feelings and piss people off and cause attention to a mistake please. Open your mind to the other side too.

You actually made a good point here, like I am saying some of the people here are going to play it up for all it's worth, and NO they will NOT look at it from the US Military's point of view. Not now nor ever.

Fonze

08-09-2007, 03:16 PM

I enjoy having this time with you Uchinamuku to discuss these issues with you. No harm no foul.

08-09-2007, 03:23 PM

Either way, the PTA member is, in my opinion, probably off their rocker. However and dont everyone here go and get crazy on me here for saying this but, probably was concerned that someone was going to snatch one of the kids.
I agree, she was off her rocker and she probably was concerned that someone was going to snatch one of her kids. But seriously, how often does a US servicemember drive a 2-ton military truck onto school property and kidnap kids. This man/woman has issues.

I enjoy having this time with you Uchinamuku to discuss these issues with you. No harm no foul.
Good to see you guys getting along. :)

ryukyuboi

08-09-2007, 03:25 PM

The local teachers' union and PTA have very strong links to the Communist and Socialist Parties in Japan, which have long opposed the US military within Japan. These parties seize upon each and every opportunity to discredit the US military. Most of their "issues" are attempts to gain some publicity - which the local newspapers provide them. As anti-base proponents, it's only natural for them to attempt to make a mountain out of a molehill.

The driver should have raised his/her arm, kinda wave, slightly bow, smile the gomenasai smile, and leave. How often has that happened to you from a local driver? Guess I should call the JPs the next time that happens to me, huh? I am positive the results would be satisfactory. *smirk*

Peace.

silviasichigo

08-09-2007, 03:26 PM

well scan across you own post before you start the judging ignorance of others ( Assuming that the JGDF is any smarter that any other military is ignorant), I am not sure if the Navy guy knew what he was doing, I don't care what he was doing because how much did it affect me.........0 (Zero), How much did it affect the lady at the school....Well....0 (Zero) she has a perfect opportunity to incite hatred towards someone and she took it. But as we ALL know this is my opinion

P_chan

08-09-2007, 05:31 PM

What dk said, it was in the original article at near the end. I believe it was one of the teachers who said it.

What did she think they were coming to the school to abduct some little girls to rape?

:edit: It was the PTA lady like dk said. Sorry I didn't catch that before I posted.

Go-Shay

08-09-2007, 06:22 PM

Okinawa must be a safe place if a truck making a U turn makes the news. I would like to ask the principal if she has ever made a wrong turn? or is there something else going on there that they don't want extra attention? Hmmmm

Muku

08-09-2007, 06:48 PM

You know I was going to post an update about this topic and the evening news but I get the feeling that it would just be a waste of breath.:(

08-09-2007, 06:50 PM

The news update would probably be something along the lines of "we're still mad as hell about this!" lol

Muku

08-09-2007, 07:05 PM

The news update would probably be something along the lines of "we're still mad as hell about this!" lol

However when you, not directly meaning you personally but you as in a plural to all members, create an atmosphere on a message board where as people, probably only me however you never know though, dont feel like posting information out of either frustration or prior knowledge that it will be rejected out of hand it leesens the potential of the board to include people with different opinions. In other words, it scares them off.

If this board is going to be pro-US Military in Japan or specifically Okinawa, then I might suggest making that a part of the FAQ's here. If there is an active interest in seeing this board grow into something other than a "local" thing, I humbly suggest creating an atmosphere as well as guidlines that everyone needs to follow. Including rules for ettiqette and language.

It's your board, you will do as you see fit, however speaking from experience here if you cater to one clientel only it will become a clique and outsiders will continue to stay outside as lurkers only.

08-09-2007, 07:24 PM

We already have rules and regulations set up. And this board isn't necessarily pro-military or pro-anything, but as you can tell, a large number of our members are active duty, so they're going to bring their bais in here with them.

Personally, I'm pretty anti-base, but I don't let it get to me and I don't dwell on it to the point where I can't have polite conversation with people of different views.

Feel free to post yours. It doesn't bother me any. I wasn't trying to be offensive. I just personally figured that if anything was in the news today relating to this story, it'd be "we're still mad as hell about it".

This board is open to anything. Feel free to discuss any topic you like. We've already seen our fair share of diversity on hot topics that a lot of people disagree with. It's ok to disagree. I'm not out to make a clique. If I expressed my total view on some topics I'm sure I'd be in the hot-seat with the general population of this forum, and I'm sure someday I will.

And for the record, I'm not active duty and have never served in the US military and never will. I'm fully 100% working as a civilian and I only go on base once every year or two, if that sheds any insight into the type of person I am. People, feel free to make your assumptions. I am a closet tree hugger by my standards.

P_chan

08-09-2007, 07:29 PM

However when you, not directly meaning you personally but you as in a plural to all members, create an atmosphere on a message board where as people, probably only me however you never know though, dont feel like posting information out of either frustration or prior knowledge that it will be rejected out of hand it leesens the potential of the board to include people with different opinions. In other words, it scares them off.

If this board is going to be pro-US Military in Japan or specifically Okinawa, then I might suggest making that a part of the FAQ's here. If there is an active interest in seeing this board grow into something other than a "local" thing, I humbly suggest creating an atmosphere as well as guidlines that everyone needs to follow. Including rules for ettiqette and language.

It's your board, you will do as you see fit, however speaking from experience here if you cater to one clientel only it will become a clique and outsiders will continue to stay outside as lurkers only.

I think I've had these thoughts with TP numerous times before. The one where you just get frustrated with the other person that you don't want to debate it anymore. Nothing wrong with that, there isn't anyone telling you that you have to stick around and answer every question thrown at you.

Heh at least I, and probably no one else who has argued with you, wont' do what TP does. I won't follow you into other threads and still pester you about your un-answered questions from the previous thread.

LOL sometimes the whambulance must be called.

:edit: Oh and I hope you don't feel that you need to change your opinion on anything just so you'll be less frustrated. Just leave the thread and cool down and maybe come back if you feel like it. If not, hey I don't care and I won't hound you about it.

socalheart

08-09-2007, 07:40 PM

However when you, not directly meaning you personally but you as in a plural to all members ...if you cater to one clientel only it will become a clique and outsiders will continue to stay outside as lurkers only.

The only way I see the JU forums catering to one type of clientele is that it is in English. I've always seen it as an open forum with guidelines similar to most forums in order to maintain common decency and such. Sure, I don't agree with everything posted. Not even my friends agree with every think I think. heh. If you (the generic you, not all of you as previously stated by another) disagree with what I see and think, then you disagree. No one needs to be rude about it with a personal or "blanket" statement like, "you're wrong." :)

GODZIBOY

08-10-2007, 01:50 PM

Its like anything else they are anti military and anti American and anything they can use to make bad press they will

08-10-2007, 02:04 PM

DougP

08-10-2007, 02:20 PM

Hmm, I haven't actually run into any anti-Americans out here. Just anti-military. And that's after being here for a good 18 years or so. I can see how you could mix those up though if you're actually in the military. All you ever hear about is how they want you gone.

If you're a civilian, it's a whole different story. They just put up with me.

I agree its the whole being occupied that they're upset about. Even still though its not on everyone's mind around here either. Plenty of other okinawans go about their usual day without giving a damn about the US military being here or not. Nor does everyone care if a truck did a u-turn on school grounds. Judging from from the people I have talked to, have met etc there are more important things in life for them to think about.
Although they have often asked me why do americans have to be so damn loud all the time lol. I tell them we have to take classes in primary school that teach us how to raise our voice :)

Fonze

08-10-2007, 02:50 PM

DougP

08-10-2007, 02:59 PM

for any one that is anti-base and is american or half american is pretty hypocritical cause if it wasn't for the bases they wouldn't be here or even exist, unless there oki parents came from the u.s. isn't it in the japanese history to be anti foreigner and now they have no choice cause thier daughters and sons(mostly daughters) married americans, regardless of race, and the parents had to accept them or kiss them goodbye

I'm not sure where you get your information from but you are way out there in left field. There have been foreigners here in Japan before there were bases. And I'm sure more will still come after the bases are no more. I was born on FT Polk but could care less if that base were to become part of the gulf of mexico along with the rest of the state its in. I kid I kid. But seriously We don't occupy china but I know a few people with chinese wives and they didn't meet in the US soooooo. I'm American and I'm not anti base... I'm just anti asshole.

08-10-2007, 03:07 PM

Yeah, no kidding DougP. It cracks me up when people make assumptions like that. Sure, if my parents didn't have anything to do with the bases, I wouldn't have grown up here, but the bases do nothing to keep me here whatsoever aside from line my wallet. And as a programmer, I could easily find another group of people to earn my money off of if I really wanted to.

Fonze

08-10-2007, 03:08 PM

yet you fail to answer the question though not put in question form of the hypocricsy. i meant it as in the past now it seems okis are okay with it, but ive talked to peruvians that say when they returned from there that they were treated like shit. IM ANTI MALES WITH OVARIES

Muku

08-10-2007, 03:10 PM

for any one that is anti-base and is american or half american is pretty hypocritical cause if it wasn't for the bases they wouldn't be here or even exist, unless there oki parents came from the u.s. isn't it in the japanese history to be anti foreigner and now they have no choice cause thier daughters and sons(mostly daughters) married americans, regardless of race, and the parents had to accept them or kiss them goodbye
Umm I dont know where you read about Japanese history but it most definitely was anti-foreigner for the longest time. The "west" forced Japan to open up.

On the rest of it I don't follow your logic at all. People from all over the world in all different countries get married whether or not there were bases there or not. In my opinion your views on this are extremely narrow minded.

And btw, I didnt marry my wife because she is Okinawan so that has nothing to do with it at all.

How in the hell did this topic turn in to a discussion about hypocritical American's?

married americans, regardless of race, and the parents had to accept them or kiss them goodbye
So...happens everyday whenever or whereever people get married, it isn't something that is unique to Okinawa or Japan?

Fonze

08-10-2007, 03:10 PM

dk i never said they should keep anyone from staying here but thanks for agreeing with me that if they weren't here chance u wouldn't either

Fonze

08-10-2007, 03:14 PM

sorry from cunfussing you but im not against anyone marrying anyone from anwhere at any place at anytime

DougP

08-10-2007, 03:20 PM

On the anti foreigner side of things. Yes it does exist over here to some degree. As it also exists in America. "You're in America, speak english."

08-10-2007, 03:48 PM

Yeah, there are racists everywhere, but I'm sure even that problem existed before the bases were placed here.

And I'm sorry, but what hypocrasy are you talking about? Being anti-base and living on Okinawa as a foreigner? Better alert JET to their hypocrasy! Quick!

Fonze

08-10-2007, 03:50 PM

i agree completely dougp but were talking about oki, and for u americans being anti-base and wish them gone your stopping futre love from happening after you found love cause of the bases.

DougP

08-10-2007, 03:55 PM

Well as I said before I'm not anti base. and I met my wife after I got out of the military. Plus long before I came into the service I was planning on coming over here anyways.

08-10-2007, 03:55 PM

Learn to read.

I didn't find love because of the bases. I found love at a nightclub.

I just think that the Okinawans could find plenty of use for the land their sitting on. I don't care too much either way.

You're naive and close minded. You make assumptions about people way too quickly and are hardly worth responding to.

08-10-2007, 03:57 PM

How in the hell did this topic turn in to a discussion about hypocritical American's?
This topic will be split into another thread as soon as I can figure out what the F man is even getting at. So far all I'm reading is :barf:.

P_chan

08-10-2007, 03:59 PM

Fonze I have the hardest time following your posts you contradict yourself a lot. I can understand where fonze is coming from once he says the japanese people are xenophobic. Like Umichu said they used to be very xenophobic. I still think the xenophobia still lingers around but it's not as bad as it used to be. A good example of this is the last vollyball championship. It was on the tv every night until japan was eliminated. Then they just stopped showing it all together rather then showing the rest of the championship. I would have liked to see who won!

However there is a huge case of xenophobia in the states too! Just look at the whole immigration reform thing. American's are some of the most ignorant people once it comes to accepting other races and cultures.

Muku

08-10-2007, 04:00 PM

This topic will be split into another thread as soon as I can figure out what the F man is even getting at. So far all I'm reading is :barf:.
Glad to see that I am not the only onw here that is lost.:dead:

08-10-2007, 04:01 PM

Some people just blow my mind.

Fonze

08-10-2007, 04:06 PM

should i change my narrow mind for u cause you dont agree you guys have straight minds that have no room for manuevering

P_chan

08-10-2007, 04:07 PM

wow once again you make no sense. You call yourself narrow minded and us straight minded. That's an oximoron if I've ever seen one.

08-10-2007, 04:08 PM

should i change my narrow mind for u cause you dont agree you guys have straight minds that have no room for manuevering
http://imatt.us/mt/archives/orly.JPG

Muku

08-10-2007, 04:09 PM

should i change my narrow mind for u cause you dont agree you guys have straight minds that have no room for manuevering

Sorry but I have to say this, http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9804/images/oliphant_3.jpg

08-10-2007, 04:10 PM

Nice Uchi, even better than mine. Great minds think alike. :D

Muku

08-10-2007, 04:12 PM

Nice Uchi, even better than mine. Great minds think alike. :D

:thumbup::thumbup:

Fonze

08-10-2007, 04:12 PM

im mean you want me to open my mind yet u dont move one inch from your position, love the pictures though im not uchi im not going to have a stick in my ass about it

08-10-2007, 04:14 PM

We do have an open mind. I'm fully capable of understanding both sides. I'm pretty sure what "open-minded" means, especially in situations like the story the original post was about.

We don't have to change our views to be open minded. I don't have to take your side. I don't expect you to agree with everything I've said. But so far, you've just come across as very judgemental and disrespectful. Which are about the only two things in the world that'll bring me to blowing a gasket.

P_chan

08-10-2007, 04:15 PM

No were just saying at least look at it from another prespective. However that doesn't mean changing your prespective on the subject either.

Fonze

08-10-2007, 04:20 PM

and i can and have my whole beef is that some make it seem as everthing the miltary has done means nothing. yes i know were in oki and only the bad well show, but dont make it seem that the mil comes of base with horns aimed at the okis with malicious objectives. now lets see if i get some agreements?

08-10-2007, 04:32 PM

Who's making it seem that the military is bad? I'm pretty sure the only thing I've really said is that the Okinawans could definitely find a way to put that land to use.

Fonze

08-10-2007, 04:36 PM

disrecpectfull i can be a "sandy vagina" like others and say that to you about your pic but i wont cause i can handle it with a smile cause i understand my post cause stirs in emotions. If i've disrespected anyone i apologize.

if you feel offended blame yourself for taking the time to get offended

08-10-2007, 04:37 PM

Your posts don't stir emotions. They leave us scratching our heads wondering wth?

P_chan

08-10-2007, 04:39 PM

I sad sandy vagina because people were whining about something that didn't need to be whined about. That was not directed at anyone.

I know you don't need to change you mind no one asked you to. But your a hypocrite because in the same post you said we should change our minds.

Muku

08-10-2007, 04:39 PM

im not uchi im not going to have a stick in my ass about it

Are you trying to say that I have;

http://www.pacificsites.com/~lakenews/LCFP%20Graphics/head_up_ass.gif

Another one of those things that make me go Mmmm!

socalheart

08-10-2007, 05:06 PM

There are a lot of posts to navigate around, but will try to touch back on topic as best I can. Please pardon any bits of information that I've repeated to emphasize my thoughts on the subject.

As a civilian growing up as a child on Okinawa, unaffiliated with the military in any way but language and ethnicity, we weren't especially anti-anything. We were simply here doing a job as required by the company. Yes, my only job was to be cute and adorable, but I was three when we moved here. You get what I mean. heh. for any one that is anti-base and is american or half american is pretty hypocritical cause if it wasn't for the bases they wouldn't be here or even exist, unless there oki parents came from the u.s. Although I am half American, I'm not half Okinawa or Japanese. My parents came here as civilians. My mother remains here as a civilian. I met my military husband while on vacation stateside. My personal life didn't rely on the military. However, I can understand how a person previously associated with the military and living on Okinawa might be against maintaining a military presence here. I never felt that the military were "occupying" Okinawa, and I was here in 1976, less than five years after the turnover. Military personnel helped my school build a playground and repair major damge after typhoons. If a military truck pulled into our school, we'd merely be curious, if we even saw it. Again, I was not military, so seeing something military related was actually exciting as a child.

Unfortunately, there are some local Okinawans who have only seen the negative impact the military has had on the island. Unfortunately, the same could be said about the Carlsbad area in California with the rowdiness that sometimes goes on involving the military; or the Antelope Valley in California with the heavy air traffic and noise from the Air Force and NASA. Some people will not be swayed with a thousand good deeds done for them or the community by the military. Some people prefer the isolationist position for Japan and its territories taken by the Japanese Imperial form of government back when they still had active Samurai. Some people may be afraid of any military influence in their communities. Some people may only be pawns and mouthpieces for factions outside the elected government who prefer to cause disharmony in the community to further their own ambitions.

Norobizaka

08-11-2007, 01:52 AM

newvalor

08-11-2007, 02:58 AM

this is just another attempt for the locals to bitch and complain about something. they look for any little thing they can find and try to blow it out of proportion. so what if they made a u-turn at the school, maybe the other entrances were not big enough or there wasn't another available entrance to perform this u-turn, these trucks do not have a good turning radius yet alone are not small either.

How about I report everytime I have a local come tries to come on base cause they are curious or lost. I could blow it out of proportion saying they did it on purpose also and even say they should compensate me for the trouble and mental anguish they put me thru. I felt like my life was threatened.

Muku

08-11-2007, 06:37 AM

I could blow it out of proportion saying they did it on purpose also and even say they should compensate me for the trouble and mental anguish they put me thru. I felt like my life was threatened
Go ahead and do it, dont just talk about oh I should do this or I should do that. Talk is cheap.

However nobody is going to listen to you anyway, and you know why?

It's "their" land you are using.

P_chan

08-11-2007, 09:44 AM

With all of the available turn around points by road and local establishments (KFC, Quickie Marts... and Courtney), what was the motivation behind entering a gated complex in the first place? I wouldn't do that in my car! Let alone a military vehicle.

Ok, so maybe the driver was new to the island? What about the "A" driver? I would find it hard to believe that a command would let 2 guys new to the island drive off base without providing the proper standards for driving a military vehicle "off base".

I can not read Japanese, but I can usually spot a school here.

Just a thought

Have you ever tried to turn around in your own car in a family mart? Now imagine a huge truck trying to turn around in a family mart. Yeah it's not going to happen. There are very few open area parking lots on island, none that I know of. Thats why they build parking garages instead, not enough room for huge parking lots.

Fonze

08-11-2007, 10:14 AM

JSSAUCE

08-11-2007, 10:25 AM

does anybody really believe that okinawa is the host by choice? what i mean before i get eatin alive :) is dont you think the gov't asked the u.s to leave after the return of oki and the u.s. said no you better find a nice way of telling your citizens that were here for the long haul. i'm just looking for opinions.

Of course!!

The few Okinawan people in my little circle of life all believe that the US is here because the Govt of Japan and the US wants it that way.

Now none of my family or friends really care too much. They do not have too many dealings with Americans except ME. But that is only 1 time a year for the month of August.

My wife could care less but she seems to dislike everyone, here in Okinawa and America.

Joel

newvalor

08-13-2007, 05:25 AM

Go ahead and do it, dont just talk about oh I should do this or I should do that. Talk is cheap.

However nobody is going to listen to you anyway, and you know why?

It's "their" land you are using.

hey it's worked for the locals, why can't I be a waste of space complainer like the rest of locals that are.

I either see somebody being payed to be quite on this or just another rape incident and it'll be used as a playing card everytime something happens.

I'm sorry but the okinawans that are like this, complaining about everything we do here should be throat punched for being inconsiderate of what we are doing here and how they would not be here if it wasn't for us in the first place. yeah so what if the war was 60 yrs ago, I'd put people in check "we dropped the bombs"......

Muku

08-13-2007, 08:02 AM

hey it's worked for the locals, why can't I be a waste of space complainer like the rest of locals that are.

Look no ones saying you can't, and to the people making their complaints they aren't wasting their time either. From one point of view it helps to keep reminding people that the military is here.

One other thing, you are a guest here right?

I either see somebody being payed to be quite on this or just another rape incident and it'll be used as a playing card everytime something happens.
It's not fun, it gets annoying to hear the same thing get rehashed from the past but it will be refered to for a few more years I'll bet.

I'm sorry but the okinawans that are like this, complaining about everything we do here should be throat punched for being inconsiderate of what we are doing here and how they would not be here if it wasn't for us in the first place. yeah so what if the war was 60 yrs ago, I'd put people in check "we dropped the bombs"..
Sorry that argument went out the door a very long time ago, to use it now is improper. Think about it a second; How many bases are left in Europe? The US with it's allies won in Europe as well, but it doesnt hold Germany or Italy hostage with bases on their territory as they once did.

The US even got out of the Phillippines, and if any country needs the money I think they do there more so than here in Okinawa.

People see a changing world situation, one very different from 62 years ago and the end of WWII. Other than training and being forward deployed, what real purpose do the bases here in Okinawa have, particularly in regards to US security? Look I know the answer to that question from the US side, and I know the response to that question from the Japanese side. Yet there is a third side, the people that have to deal with and live with bases around them.

Let's never forget that problems like this are NOT unique to Okinawa, they occur at Sasebo, Yokosuka, Iwakuni and any other place there is a US Military facility. It's just the concentration of bases here on this little ass island that causes so much discontent.

Why cant the US make an effort on it's own? Why does the US have to or want to maintain the status quo here, knowing quite well the discontent the local population has with the bases. People here are not ignorant, Japanese happen to be some of the most literate people in the world, just because many dont talk openly about issues like this doesnt mean they arent aware of them. Not saying anyone infered that either. Oh and I know about the proposal to move to Guam, but why in the hell does the Japanese government have to fund it? I say screw it, keep the money here, let the bases stay just reorganize them and make more joint services bases.

Try doing this.....you know how many people here would be estatic?

Naha Port....Uneccessary, use either White Beach or Tengan.
Camp Kinser.......Maintenance and storage, pretty much anyway......move it to either Foster, or Hansen. Put it closer to the troops.
MCAS Futenma....Slated for return.
Torii Station.......Combine with Camp Shields and move both to Kadena
Mc T and Courtney......Move up north to Hansen or to Cp Foster.

Look these are ideas off the top of my head, and the point is not about the people as Americans, the issue is about people that are military.

People affected most by the bases in their areas continually complain the loudest. Most everyone else is pretty quiet, even though they have opinions, about the issues.

As long as you are here, get used to hearing stuff like this. And to be totally honest here, if I wasnt a member of this board I highly doubt that I would be discussing this issue like this with anyone around me. I would have watched the news, thought this guy, the driver, is an ass,:rolleyes: and then went on with my day. :D

JSSAUCE

08-13-2007, 11:51 AM

Naha Port....Uneccessary, use either White Beach or Tengan.
Camp Kinser.......Maintenance and storage, pretty much anyway......move it to either Foster, or Hansen. Put it closer to the troops.
MCAS Futenma....Slated for return.
Torii Station.......Combine with Camp Shields and move both to Kadena
Mc T and Courtney......Move up north to Hansen or to Cp Foster.

Uchinamuku,

If I read you correctly, do you feel VERY anti base and would like to see them go? Its a tough position to take because outside of Okinawa its a moot point. No one seems to care. We live outside of Chicago and besides my friends and family no one really knows Okinawa or its bases. This is the problem.

Unfourtantly it really seems that the main people affected do not really matter. The govt of Japan seems to care 0% about what the Okinawan people say.

As for the USA they have no reason what so ever to move out. What are the costs to the USA to be here? Not much. How about the ideal location? It is.

Going back to the original story. I believe that the principle was 100% correct in being totally outraged. Why? As principle he is charged with many duties among them being responsable for the welfare and saftey of the school grounds and students. Even if it was for show I would expect nothing less from him. He needs to send a message that it is not ok for these things to happen. I agree that no real damage was done and in a "ideal Okinawa" it would not have been an issue but we live in a Okinawa where military is looked at under a microscope.

It may not be the popular opinion to have but after much thought I do believe he was correct even after initially thinking he over reacted.

Joel

Muku

08-13-2007, 12:08 PM

Uchinamuku,

If I read you correctly, do you feel VERY anti base and would like to see them go? Its a tough position to take because outside of Okinawa its a moot point. No one seems to care. We live outside of Chicago and besides my friends and family no one really knows Okinawa or its bases. This is the problem.

Unfourtantly it really seems that the main people affected do not really matter. The govt of Japan seems to care 0% about what the Okinawan people say.

As for the USA they have no reason what so ever to move out. What are the costs to the USA to be here? Not much. How about the ideal location? It is.

Going back to the original story. I believe that the principle was 100% correct in being totally outraged. Why? As principle he is charged with many duties among them being responsable for the welfare and saftey of the school grounds and students. Even if it was for show I would expect nothing less from him. He needs to send a message that it is not ok for these things to happen. I agree that no real damage was done and in a "ideal Okinawa" it would not have been an issue but we live in a Okinawa where military is looked at under a microscope.

It may not be the popular opinion to have but after much thought I do believe he was correct even after initially thinking he over reacted.

Joel
Thanks for your reply, I am less anti-base, rather pro-base reorganization. There are some bases here that just take up too much space for their purpose and could rather easily provide the service that it does combined into or on other locations within the prefecture here.

Back to your comments on the OP, point well made.:thumbup1:

JSSAUCE

08-13-2007, 12:58 PM

Thanks for your reply, I am less anti-base, rather pro-base reorganization. There are some bases here that just take up too much space for their purpose and could rather easily provide the service that it does combined into or on other locations within the prefecture here.

Back to your comments on the OP, point well made.:thumbup1:

Base reorganization. I have never given it much thought. This could be the way to go!!

I'll give it some thought, now off to Itoman and to pay my annual respects at the peace park. Then off to main place, I have 1000 medals to burn through by next Tuesday!

Joel

P_chan

08-13-2007, 12:59 PM

Reorganization is a good idea but you would have to expand the base. Kadena doesn't even have the room for the army patriot guys.

Muku

08-13-2007, 01:09 PM

Reorganization is a good idea but you would have to expand the base. Kadena doesn't even have the room for the army patriot guys.
That depends I think on how much "space" one expects to need. I do not think that Kadena "needs" two golf courses. Plus the road in from 58 to mainside is awfully long with nothing but trees and grass.

My point here is if there was a will there would be a way. Unfortunately I just dont see the will.

08-13-2007, 01:11 PM

Not to mention THREE swimming pools. :D

P_chan

08-13-2007, 01:13 PM

Muku

08-13-2007, 01:27 PM

I agree on the golf course. But they tend to try and keep the area's where you work, and the area wher you live separate. Not to mention the addiontal housing need to house all the new people. Plus I'm sure the air force would rather keep their extra land for development for air force projects, not other branches.

You see where this is leading I am sure. However if the powers that be actually took the time to think this one out and not get into an inter-service pissing contest many of the functions could be made into joint services facilities. Hansen could be the focus of what the FSSG does at Kinser, but then there would be the problems within the same branch of service in having line grunts working in the same proximity of support group personel.

The list would go on and on. Yet Kadena as it is, is a joint services facility, the Navy and AF both utilize the base with a minimum of problems.

Cooperation is the key. Yet I seriously doubt that it would ever happen, too much politics involved within all the services.

P_chan

08-13-2007, 01:34 PM

Your right it probably wouldn't ever happen. The whole, this branch is better then that branch, mentality doesn't help the situation. But the way things are going in the air force it almost seems like we'll be the army air core again someday.

silviasichigo

08-13-2007, 01:36 PM

Foster does not have the land space to house even three of Kinser's warehouses They are about an 1/8th of a mile long and most of them are at full capacity. Fo the exception of a few TMO/PPP. A smaller warehouse just will not cut it for most of the sections down there.

Hansen is a feasible solution as it is already in the works. As far at putting more stuff on to Kadena hmmm not really an option due to flight line proximity restrictions and if you look at an areial map of Kadena it was not laid out well in the beginning so to cram more stuff on there well.... I will give them one thing they finally cleared out that "Forrest" across from the Staff club to build housing.

Sheilds is just a sliver of land well laid out and would have been attached to Kadena but too much un-usable land between the two.

Mc Toureous is a waste of land space, they should have jsut put it up on Hansen or tried to cram it into Courtney, (But they did not want to take away from giving the Generals enough space)

Meh....I have a lot more to say but need to work.

Muku

08-13-2007, 01:59 PM

The first thing is getting people to think about the options that are available. Problems can be overcome with cooperation and money. I would bet that the Japanese government would foot the bill for expansion of existing facilities if it meant closing other bases.

MCAS Futenma is a sticking point, however other bases, including Kinser could be moved if there was a will to do it.

As far at putting more stuff on to Kadena hmmm not really an option due to flight line proximity restrictions and if you look at an areial map of Kadena it was not laid out well in the beginning so to cram more stuff on there well.... I will give them one thing they finally cleared out that "Forrest" across from the Staff club to build housing.

All the Kadena housing could be made into towers, that would save a ton of space for other uses. There is still plenty of room on the south side of the main road in from HWY 58 that could house other facilities.

Many needs are perceived in my opinion, and in some cases wants take presidence over needs.

Fonze

08-13-2007, 03:10 PM

do you know that they're building the new navy hospital where futemna housing is. not to get into a same old conflict as before uchi but just cause for you WWII seems long time ago to many it doesn't and see it as a main reason were here. Not to say that military should run unchecked. All the locals have every right to there feelings and opinions but, in the end I believe to get bases of island they need to show some sort of really effort of protest to the mainland gov't.
On the issue of guest, does anybody really believe that if the gov't would have asked u.s to leave in 76 the u.s would've said "okay!" I think the word guest was something tokyo neede to use in addition to money to quell any uprising among the oki's. If i'm wrong i would love to be educated a bit on that issue.
finally about the p.i the u.s was there for 100yrs from 1896 to1996 which i believe is going to happen here if not more. All in all those are all great ideas you present uchi.

Muku

08-13-2007, 03:56 PM

do you know that they're building the new navy hospital where futemna housing is.
Fon.... The only reason it is being built is so Cp. Lester can be fully returned.

On the issue of guest, does anybody really believe that if the gov't would have asked u.s to leave in 76 the u.s would've said "okay!" I think the word guest was something tokyo neede to use in addition to money to quell any uprising among the oki's. If i'm wrong i would love to be educated a bit on that issue.
finally about the p.i the u.s was there for 100yrs from 1896 to1996 which i believe is going to happen here if not more. All in all those are all great ideas you present uchi.
You know if the national government here refused to resign the base leases the bases would be gone.

That's what happened in the PI and would also happen here as well.

Fonze

08-13-2007, 04:04 PM

Muku

08-13-2007, 04:18 PM

can you agree with me though that if the locals put up some kinda fight directed at the national gov instead of the bases, at reducing the bases here would have a better chance, or would that be fight not worth fighting
It's been tried before when Ota was the govenor. The national government quit funding for a number of projects here. He also refused to sign the leases as well and left it up to the national government as well.

The economy took a huge hit and eventually because his main point was getting rid of the bases the rest of the island suffered quite a bit. He lost the following election.

It's a lot more complicated than just putting up a fight. And in a manner of speaking issues that pop up like this cause problems for the government as well, because local assemblies will pass resolutions condemning these acts and the national government has to respond.

DougP

08-13-2007, 08:54 PM

Fon.... The only reason it is being built is so Cp. Lester can be fully returned.

You know if the national government here refused to resign the base leases the bases would be gone.

That's what happened in the PI and would also happen here as well.

There was a lot more than that going on at the time. To say the gov decided one day to kick the US out would not even be close to telling the whole story on that one:)

Muku

08-13-2007, 10:12 PM

There was a lot more than that going on at the time. To say the gov decided one day to kick the US out would not even be close to telling the whole story on that one:)

I know this however it isn't worth going into all the details, it would be in my opinion a waste of time.

The governor could not do it on his own, it would have to be the national government that ultimately refused to sign the leases. If that would happen the bases here would close. It won't happen but it is one option to get the bases out of not only Okinawa but all of Japan.

However the national government isnt that stupid either.

socalheart

08-13-2007, 10:29 PM

Admittedly not a subject of indepth study for me, I put forth this question: Wouldn't America and Japan be required to rewrite treaties or other government agreements to remove all US military presence from Japan?

Muku

08-13-2007, 10:48 PM

Admittedly not a subject of indepth study for me, I put forth this question: Wouldn't America and Japan be required to rewrite treaties or other govenment agreement to remove all US military presence from Japan?

I dont think so. For example the bases in the PI were under a 100 year lease and despite the best efforts of the US government to renew the leases the PI government refused and the bases closed. Well Clark AB was destroyed by Mt Pintubo.

Anyway something similar would probably happen here as well, yet I think the benefits of having the bases outweighs many of the problems as well.

Plus there is a plan on the table to lessen the burden here in Okinawa, however it hinges upon the new base being built off of Camp Schwab.

DougP

08-14-2007, 01:14 AM

I know this however it isn't worth going into all the details, it would be in my opinion a waste of time.

The governor could not do it on his own, it would have to be the national government that ultimately refused to sign the leases. If that would happen the bases here would close. It won't happen but it is one option to get the bases out of not only Okinawa but all of Japan.

However the national government isnt that stupid either.

Long story short what happened there and what could happen here are two completely different stories. Another thing to think about here is how is the JSDF is thought of amongst the populus. From what I've discovered it seems to be looked apon as a joke. Not a real military and that's coming from okinawans. I was shocked to realize this but I guess it makes sense. They are really ill funded. From what I saw during joint exercises over a 5 year period their communications equipment alone was at least a decade behind the US. If the Okinawans were to wish the bases away, if Japan in fact were to wish the US military off their land completely they would have to do a lot of work improving their self defense force. They realize this and also realize they would have to spend a lot of time and money to get their SDF in the proper condition in order to truley defend their homeland. Keeping the Okinawans quiet and docile is the road more traveled for them
(the japanese gov)and thus easier to continue pursuing.

JSSAUCE

08-14-2007, 02:37 AM

Whats in it for Japan and the US to close/move bases on Okinawa? Nothing, no benefit. They can publicly say they want to lessen the burden etc... but there is no good reason from a National govt standpoint to do so.

Now Japan basically pays the US for its protection and all of the protection is 1000 miles away from mainland. Someone correct me if I am wrong but where are the sprawling US military bases in Tokyo??

The US has key military people and equipment close to China and North Korea. Along with everything else in South Korea. Oh everything is paid for by Japan too!

So when the pressure finally builds up to a breaking point the US/Japan come out with agreements that eyeryone can't agree on:ohmy: Everytime someone gets upset over the new runway shape, location, crabs, algee, rocks, shells, etc...... more time added. All the time the US still flies/crashes choppers in Ginowan.

This is a problem that probaly matters 0.0000000000000001% to the people in the pentagon and then only because that 1 person in some office is tired of getting calls/emails from people. Same too in Tokyo. Its a bullshit issue to all of them which only gets lip service.

I wish I had the solution or a magic wand to fix things but it aint going to happen anytime soon.

Joel

Muku

08-14-2007, 07:37 AM

I wish I had the solution or a magic wand to fix things but it aint going to happen anytime soon.

That's a fact, there are no truly workable solutions for right now.

Off topic reply;
They are really ill funded.

Firstly I do not know where you are getting your information however I think you need to remember that the Japan Sefl Defense Forces are most definitely NOT ill funded. The military budget was once third in the world in terms of total spending this is not including any funds for the US Military bases.

United States $466 billion
China $65.0 billion
Russia $50.0 billion
France $45.0 billion
United Kingdom $42.8 billion
Japan $41.75 billion

Even in the 1980s, defense spending was accorded a relatively low priority. For FY 1986 through FY 1990, defense's share of the general budget was around 6.5 percent, compared with approximately 28 percent for the United States. In 1987 Japan ranked sixth in the world in total defense expenditures behind the Soviet Union, the United States, France, the Federal Republic of Germany (West Germany), and Britain. By 1989 it ranked third after the United States and the Soviet Union, mainly because of the increased value of the yen. In FY 1991, defense accounted for 6.2 percent of the budget.

Japan; Global Security (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/japan/budget.htm)

Next;
From what I saw during joint exercises over a 5 year period their communications equipment alone was at least a decade behind the US
To use this way of thinking that pretty much what 80% of the world is at least twice that much behind then. Just because a country doesnt have the same equipment that the US has doesnt necessarily make it a backward, my words, or ill funded.

if Japan in fact were to wish the US military off their land completely they would have to do a lot of work improving their self defense force. They realize this and also realize they would have to spend a lot of time and money to get their SDF in the proper condition in order to truley defend their homeland.
Agreed, but please dont be fooled, their SDF is well equipped in other areas as well. Did you know that Japan has a larger destroyer fleet that the US? It is for home protection and not offensive in nature, but many of the ships have the AEGIS systems on them. They are also in discussions with the US government to be the first "foreign" country to purchase the F-22 fighter. Just because they use F-4's doesnt mean they dont have anything else, they also have F-15's as well.

Japan Maritime Self Defense Force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Maritime_Self-Defense_Force)

Japan Air Self Defense Forces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Air_Self-Defense_Force)

Japan Ground Self Defense Forces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Ground_Self-Defense_Force)

The US has some where in the neighborhood of 1.5 million men and women on active duty, which is 2nd in the world. Yet for a self defense force only, Japans SDF has something like 240,000 men and women on active duty.

Please take a few minutes to look at those links, you may be surprised at what you see there. Thanks.

Fonze

08-14-2007, 10:16 AM

I dont think that congress is going to let the sale of those f22s go thru because it would revial advanced technology.(mondays edition of stripes)So I read that japan is the process of designing a plane with homemade engine, radar system and jammers thhat would be in production within 10yrs. Im personally split on this cause I believe in protecting technology but thats also hurting the people in the high tech industries job security

Muku

08-14-2007, 10:28 AM

Im personally split on this cause I believe in protecting technology but thats also hurting the people in the high tech industries job security
But the high tech industry is not limited to the US alone, as you probably know. The Japanese have also "supposedly" upgraded the F-15's they bought from the US with their own technological advancments as well.

If you take a look at the link for the Japanese Air Self Defense forces Japan already has its own home built fighter air craft.

Fonze

08-14-2007, 11:06 AM

Muku

08-14-2007, 11:49 AM

how is it called japanese and boeing F15 eagle? oh and i meant they were developing one entirely japanese. Other purchase options include the F-35 joint strike fighter ,F/A-18 and advanced F-15s as well as eurofighter typhoon

I take it you didnt read the link all the way. :-| Not developing actually have their own.

Mitsubishi F-1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_F-1)
This is a totally Japanese fighter aricraft

Mitsubishi F-2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_F-2)
This one is 60/40 Japanese; Mitsubishi Heavy Ind. and American; Lockheed Martin

DougP

08-14-2007, 06:10 PM

That's a fact, there are no truly workable solutions for right now.

Off topic reply;

Firstly I do not know where you are getting your information however I think you need to remember that the Japan Sefl Defense Forces are most definitely NOT ill funded. The military budget was once third in the world in terms of total spending this is not including any funds for the US Military bases.

Japan; Global Security (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/japan/budget.htm)

Next;

To use this way of thinking that pretty much what 80% of the world is at least twice that much behind then. Just because a country doesnt have the same equipment that the US has doesnt necessarily make it a backward, my words, or ill funded.

Agreed, but please dont be fooled, their SDF is well equipped in other areas as well. Did you know that Japan has a larger destroyer fleet that the US? It is for home protection and not offensive in nature, but many of the ships have the AEGIS systems on them. They are also in discussions with the US government to be the first "foreign" country to purchase the F-22 fighter. Just because they use F-4's doesnt mean they dont have anything else, they also have F-15's as well.

Japan Maritime Self Defense Force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Maritime_Self-Defense_Force)

Japan Air Self Defense Forces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Air_Self-Defense_Force)

Japan Ground Self Defense Forces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Ground_Self-Defense_Force)

The US has some where in the neighborhood of 1.5 million men and women on active duty, which is 2nd in the world. Yet for a self defense force only, Japans SDF has something like 240,000 men and women on active duty.

Please take a few minutes to look at those links, you may be surprised at what you see there. Thanks.

Well when I said ill funded I was not getting the information from the internet rather from SDF soldiers themselves and base on the aging equipment they were working with. It appears (by the numbers) alot is being spent on a force only less than 300,000 strong. So yes I may have jumped the gun but its still obvious that something fishy is going on.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/DougGTR32/jsdf.jpg

DougP

08-14-2007, 06:21 PM

I take it you didnt read the link all the way. :-| Not developing actually have their own.

Mitsubishi F-1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_F-1)
This is a totally Japanese fighter aricraft

Mitsubishi F-2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_F-2)
This one is 60/40 Japanese; Mitsubishi Heavy Ind. and American; Lockheed Martin

F-1 introduced in 1978 its about to be completely retired soon

F-2 looks good
The Japanese may eventually make up to 98, at a cost of roughly 100 million USD each in 2004 dollars. Much of the F-16 technology used in the F-2 was the subject of some political debate in the U.S. and Japan in the early 1990s. The technology transfers were authorized however, and the project proceeded.

Muku

08-14-2007, 08:56 PM

F-1 introduced in 1978 its about to be completely retired soon

F-2 looks good

The F-1 is rather old and is being replaced by the F-2 as it comes on line.

So yes I may have jumped the gun but its still obvious that something fishy is going on.
I wouldn't know about that, however it is well known that the cost per unit for material is rather high, due to production costs here in Japan.

Kind of like the time when the US was paying somethin like $400.00 per toilet seat.:ohmy:

DougP

08-15-2007, 01:28 AM

Funny you should mention $400 toilet seats :)
http://www.sandman.com/intimst.html
http://www.totousa.com/productpage.asp?PID=123

Alittle over the 400 dollar price tag.. maybe they're worth it though

Quane1

08-15-2007, 03:17 AM

It seems obvious from the article that the service members took a wrong turn and were only turning around to find their way. The fact that the principal of the school was angered by this only displays her possible prejudice against the US Armed Forces or her lack of intelligence.

Muku

08-15-2007, 06:49 AM

The fact that the principal of the school was angered by this only displays her possible prejudice against the US Armed Forces or her lack of intelligence.

Delete the word possible and you got it. It is not a matter of her intelligence, she is probably 100% prejudiced against the US Military.

Now then here is a question for you; Can you blame her?

Boost

08-15-2007, 07:06 AM

Can you blame her?

Well it depends on factors associated with the incident that we do not know. Was it obvious to a foreigner that the area they were driving into was a school and may not be the best place to perform a U-turn? Did the entry look like a side street offering a turn about that would allow him to safely perform a U-turn without blocking traffic? I highly doubt the driver of the truck had mal-intent when entering the area to turn around in. Had he driven onto a grassy area, or left any part of the drive way for that matter, I could understand her anger. But given what we know from the story, I think it was an over reaction on her part.

Muku

08-15-2007, 07:40 AM

Was it obvious to a foreigner that the area they were driving into was a school and may not be the best place to perform a U-turn?
Yes, I have been to the school in question there is no way in hell they couldnt have know it was improper. The school has a gated entrance, but being during summer vacation as it was when the incident occured the gate was open.

Not a great shot but here is a picture of the rotary inside the school grounds that they made their uturn at.

http://ryukyushimpo.jp/uploads/img46b7be44b4edb.jpg

Why didnt I think of this earlier...sorry about this. Should give everyone an idea of the location, pay close attention please to where exactly the entrance is. Take a look at the attachment please.

There is no way they couldnt have known it was not a proper location to make their turn. If you notice one has to go through the intersection if they were turning left, and look closely and you can see the gate at the entrance as well.

Boost

08-15-2007, 08:38 AM

Okay, I see at the very least they should/would have realized that it was not necessarily a public area or a viable option for turning around in. I think this was stated previously but this was probably a case of poor training and that it needs to be emphasized that, to the best of your abilities, you need to stay on main roads and away from private parking lots and drive ways. Even if this means risking getting lost for a little bit, then so be it. Worse comes to worse, you pull off on the side of the road and phone someone for assistance with navigating your way back.

Fonze

08-15-2007, 11:37 AM

Nice picture. Now maybe just maybe that was the best option, cause the driver might have known if he went straight he would of been worst of or turned right it wouldv'e been worse with no available turn.That rotary seems to me as a good option for a vehicle to use, especially if there was no school and probably not many vehicles, and no children. What kind of truck was it anyways? Also if its such a private place why no gates or why not close them or have signs saying no military vehicles allowed? Now agreed that they should"ve had better info of the area in case of problems and the principle has a right for concern but, anger just seems stupidly unwaranted.

JSSAUCE

08-15-2007, 04:37 PM

Principal Junko Oshiro wants to know “why an American truck came into my school?” She noted it was only last month that an armored vehicle had made an incursion onto the grounds of a nursing school, and “we had asked the American military to say it would never happen again.”

Quote take from Japanupdate.

As I stated pages ago I believe the principal acted properly. In going over her words it does not seem like she went overboard. No calling for protests, no burning of the American flag, no march on the bases. She is the boss and its her JOB to protect the students and school. I see a reaction but not a overreaction. She just has some very specific questions and concerns

In light of recent events I would even agree with a little overaction if she choose to do so.

Joel

Muku

08-15-2007, 05:08 PM

In light of recent events I would even agree with a little overaction if she choose to do so.
I understand where you are coming from, and her as well.

Principal Junko Oshiro wants to know “why an American truck came into my school?” She noted it was only last month that an armored vehicle had made an incursion onto the grounds of a nursing school, and “we had asked the American military to say it would never happen again.”

Side note here;

I posted this previously and evidently there has been no retraction as of yet. The previous excursion was not at a nursing school, but a school for the hanidcapped. I would hope that JU would correct that mistake.

By the way the 2 schools happen to be very close to each other as well, within a few hundred meters.

ststephen65

08-15-2007, 08:44 PM

i sorta see where fonze is coming from, if it had happened here in the states. but we are here in okinawa. there are ALOT of people who dont want us here and i def see their point. honest mistake im sure but def a school of any kind is prob the worst place to drive a military truck. it could be taken almost as if we where rubbing it in their faces. when stories like this come out, yeah some of them are very blown out of proportion but put yourself in their shoes. what if germany or iraq had a huge military presence with huge bases and tanks and missles and what not in the states and your young child came home from school and said there was a military truck at school today, most people would be pretty alarmed.
its not "americans" most okinawans dont like, i think its the bases. i actually have more okinawan friends then american friends here, alot of them go to the rallys and the protests. they know im in the military but they understand it is my "job" to be here and im a nice guy.

JSSAUCE

08-15-2007, 09:24 PM

its not "americans" most okinawans dont like, i think its the bases.

I once thought that too. As the years go by and I talk with more Okinawans I feel Americans are not liked much more then we think. We want to think its the bases but its the people.

Now I know that all the Americans here are not evil but alot of the Okinawan people are fed up. When I talk with them, including my family, they all like to tell the "story" about the stupid American and what they did. Now they most likely encounter other Okinawans everyday who do dumb ass stuff too but it always goes back to us. Why? Because we are guests in their land. This is not our country, never was and never will be.

I too feel that I am a "nice guy" but I still feel like I am viewed as an outsider. Everyone is super friendly but I just don't fit 100%. Never did never will.

Joel

DougP

08-16-2007, 12:19 AM

Now I know that all the Americans here are not evil but alot of the Okinawan people are fed up. When I talk with them, including my family, they all like to tell the "story" about the stupid American and what they did. Now they most likely encounter other Okinawans everyday who do dumb ass stuff too but it always goes back to us. Why? Because we are guests in their land. This is not our country, never was and never will be.

I can see what you mean by that. A lot of it comes from day to day contact too. For example when I first got here I didn't notice it but in the past few years it has become very obvious. For instance out in public especially in restaurants I noticed my fellow Americans can be quite loud. Sometimes I notice one group talking very loudly to another group several tables away, as if they didn't notice they were disturbing others in between them. I see the disgruntled look on the other Okinawans' faces. A look best described as "There goes our quiet evening." Granted I've been in several places where Okinawans are quite boisterous. These places are usually izakayas and bars though. Loud conversations in japanese don't stand out as much as loud conversations in english do around here. This ofcourse is just one example of something that gets on their nerves. Other things are the way we drive, we wear too much cologne, and generally just don't care about others around us. The pervious examples ofcourse are not fact but how we are perceived. Things I try to keep in mind when I go out. Oh, almost forgot, I've seen this quite often. People making comments about how small the servings of food are, saying things such as arigatou in a mocking tone, or rolling their eyes in disgust when an Okinawan can't understand what they're trying to order in english.

Muku

08-16-2007, 06:01 AM

I too feel that I am a "nice guy" but I still feel like I am viewed as an outsider. Everyone is super friendly but I just don't fit 100%. Never did never will.
This as you probably realize has nothing to do with whether you are military or not. It is a part of living in Japan. It is easier here in Okinawa than mainland but as long as your skin is white or black and your face is not "Japanese" you will have an extremely hard time being 100% accepted even if you were to take Japanese citizenship, become naturalized, you would still be viewed as a foreigner.

Once a person can accept that about life and living here, things get a whole hell of alot easier. There is shit that I see daily that if I let it bug me would cause me either to become a mass murderer or raving idiot in an asylum somewhere. Probably somewhere in between.

I know of too many people that end up leaving here because they could not accept it. Families broken up because either, in most cases the "gaijin" husband, for what ever reason can not handle the stress one encounters daily in being "gaijin". It's a shame too, many were good people.

They took too much time and energy in constantly asking "why" instead of just letting things be as they are. I've met people from all over the world here, literally, and this trait of constantly asking "why" about the people, the customs, the cost of things, no English, etc etc etc, is generally an American thing.

Get past the "why" stage and realize your position in society here and you, or anyone for that matter should be fine. Not saying, or meaning to infer you arent, these are just some thoughts in reply to your statement above here.

atb35

08-16-2007, 06:56 AM

In this sense I am glad I am ignorant. Whenver I am out in town either running, riding my bike, or just going to get something to eat, I dont see it.(yes, there are the protests, but that is a small number, hell we have Americans in the US that hate Americans) I was stationed here for three years before, and have been here about a month this time and every time I interact with the local citizens, I have nothing but postive things to say. I have no doubt there are numerous locals that dislike Americans, but I really believe if you are a nice person, courteous, and act as you would like to be treated, it goes a long way.

In all the countries Ive been in, no place has had people treat me as good as when I have been to Okinawa. The rest of the world should take a few notes on customer service from the local people here. I know when I leave Okinawa for the last time and retire from the military, I will always hold it and Japanese people in general in high regard.

If they hate Americans, they do a damn good job of hiding it.

JSSAUCE

08-16-2007, 11:23 AM

No doubt that the service you get here in Okinawa is world class!! There is just no comparison to anything service orientatied in the US.

Its no so much as Okinawans hate the Americans its just that upon careful observation we are becoming more and more of a problem to them.

As for fitting in it does not really bother me. I am not in the military anymore (13 years ago) and we only come for vacation every August. Still in that 1 month I see its difficult to fit in. No don't get me wrong I certanily could and would try to do so if we moved back. We plan on retireing here later in life. It just seems very difficult to get certain things accomplished with out major help if you are not Japanese.

As for being accepted I really could care less. I do not really socialize with anyone back home. I could not tell you the names of any of my neighbors for a million dollars. I trave alot for work and my only concern is for my kids and wife. I do not need to go to bars or parties. But as Uchinamuku said it does affect some to the point where it ruins their life here. Even my wife finds it to be much different here to just plain old live.

Joel

Asshat

08-16-2007, 12:19 PM

They took too much time and energy in constantly asking "why" instead of just letting things be as they are.

This statement is so true of Americans! I travel all over Asia and hear this often: “Why don’t they like us?” The result is Americans groveling all over and apologizing for their heritage/government instead of concentrating on making friends.

As far as the ignorant, loud, Americans...I do my best to avoid them. I seldom go where Americans go. I simply do not want to be associated with them, and I won’t apologize to anyone for their behavior. That's their problem.

I’m not concerned with what the school administrator "said" about this incident. Did she use the word "incursion" by the way, or was that a loose translation of the previous event? The press is no friend of peaceful existence and sensation always sells more papers. (euphemism)

I have never met an Okinawan who hated me because of my ethnic background. However I make no mistake in noting prejudice exists in this country and the only thing I can do about it is to be myself.

JSSAUCE

08-16-2007, 12:58 PM

Muku

08-16-2007, 04:33 PM

I Agree!!

I love it that I hardly see Americans when in Okinawa. We rarely go North past that bridge on 58 before Kinser. In fact next year we will try to stay in Itoman. I would love to retire far South... away from people in general.

Joel

If you are that far south, just out of curiosity here, why does your location state that you are in Oak Park?

JSSAUCE

08-16-2007, 10:13 PM

If you are that far south, just out of curiosity here, why does your location state that you are in Oak Park?

We live in Oak Park IL. Right outside of Chicago 11 month of the year and spend most of August back in Okinawa. We are currently in Naha. I can see the Meiabashi station from our balcony.

Joel

Muku

08-16-2007, 10:22 PM

We live in Oak Park IL. Right outside of Chicago 11 month of the year and spend most of August back in Okinawa. We are currently in Naha. I can see the Meiabashi station from our balcony.

Joel
Gottcha, I'm originally from Milwaukee.:D

The first time I saw your handle I thought of Sauces in Hanby!

P_chan

08-17-2007, 12:09 PM

We live in Oak Park IL. Right outside of Chicago 11 month of the year and spend most of August back in Okinawa. We are currently in Naha. I can see the Meiabashi station from our balcony.

Joel

I know oak park! I'm from hammond indiana which is about a 5 minute drive from Chicago's south side.

Fonze

08-17-2007, 02:59 PM

Muku

08-17-2007, 04:09 PM

wow you guys are from butfuk nowere u.s.a. J/k Thats who usually stays overseas cause there nobody's back home and they can create them selfs over somewere else, marry someone who knows nothing about the losers they were there. Not everyone though overseas like that is that way though , but i have met some people like that.

Come on now, where the hell do you come from that makes our space of the mid-west so butfuk rotten?:scared::D

atb35

08-17-2007, 04:18 PM

Well Im from the biggest city in the world and I like it here...does that make me an honorary butfuk?

Tempestuous

08-17-2007, 04:19 PM

Well Im from the biggest city in the world and I like it here...does that make me an honorary butfuk?

You're from Tokyo, Japan, or Mexico City, Mexico or Mumbai, India?!?!?
COOL!:D

Muku

08-17-2007, 04:29 PM

Well Im from the biggest city in the world and I like it here...does that make me an honorary butfuk?

Youre ok in my book!:thumbup:

Fonze

08-17-2007, 04:33 PM

socalheart

08-17-2007, 05:20 PM

SoCal represent! :thumbup:

I didn't realise that Mumbai has the world's largest population (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_population) these days. wow.
"It's killing, mama. And if it's killing, it's what everyone's wearing in Mumbai."
-- Bride & Prejudice (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0361411/)

Anyhow, what were we all talking about? :rolleyes:

Muku

08-17-2007, 05:24 PM

I was born and raised in Anahiem, CA 3 minutes from Disney then lived in Reno, NV for 7 yrs. I dont know much about the midwest but from what people tell me though. I stayed in great lakes for 6 months during winter and that sucked so much.

Great Lakes as in Boot Camp? If that's so yeah it would suck, but I love Wisconsin winters better than Okinawan summers.

Hell at least in a cold climate you can put clothes on and get warm, plus cuddling up next to people is a great way to conserve body heat.

But hell even nakid' and it's friggin hot here.:w00t:

P_chan

08-17-2007, 08:13 PM

Hehe you went to navy boot camp in near chicago didn't you? God I hope you didn't go in the winter, that would suck.

I love chicago, and it's defiantly not butfuk usa. I live in the suburbs, and we've got stuff to do everywhere! Not to mention downtown is only about 20 minutes away. If you drive just a little bit past the suburbs you will be in rural towns and thats nice to get away from the city.

Muku

08-17-2007, 09:37 PM

One word for Chicago.........

Giordano's (http://www.giordanos.com/menu.php)

bad_karma

08-17-2007, 10:55 PM

Uchinamuku: What part of Milwaukee are you from?

Peace,

BK out

JSSAUCE

08-17-2007, 11:22 PM

wow you guys are from butfuk nowere u.s.a. J/k Thats who usually stays overseas cause there nobody's back home and they can create them selfs over somewere else, marry someone who knows nothing about the losers they were there. Not everyone though overseas like that is that way though , but i have met some people like that.

Well not to sure how to take those comments:confused: Anyhow we just visit once a year in August. Unfourtantly my wife does know the loser that I was/am. :w00t:

Joel

Boost

08-18-2007, 12:03 AM

SoCal represent! :thumbup:

Sweet, are we doin shout outs here now!?

BiG D Texas in tha house!!! :D

Muku

08-18-2007, 12:36 AM

Uchinamuku: What part of Milwaukee are you from?

Peace,

BK out
Well I first grew up around the Sherman Park District and then moved to the area around Capital Court.

I eventually graduated from PiusXI high school and Marquette University.

Where are you from?

JSSAUCE

08-18-2007, 12:41 AM

I stayed in great lakes for 6 months during winter and that sucked so much.

You were right up by where I office when I am not traveling. Highland Park and Lincolnshire.

I had to calm down a couple of sailors just out of boot camp a few weeks ago on the train into Chicago. It ended up fine with me telling stories of my military career and them listening with anticipation. Finally after all of these years and it ends up being a couple of newbe sailors who actually listen to me:)

Joel

bad_karma

08-18-2007, 09:43 AM

Uchinamuku: South side suburb...Cudahy

Peace,

BK out

Fonze

08-18-2007, 09:52 AM

No I have never had the privalage of serving my country due to my run ins with the law. My wife is in the navy and i stayed in Great Mistakes, as people in the navy call it, after she was out of bootcamp during corps school and until they sent us to sunny San Diego. I like Downtown chicago and the tourist spots especially the sears tower.

JSSAUCE

08-19-2007, 12:30 AM

I think downtown Chicago is one of the nicest downtown areas of any major US city. Glad you got a chance to experience it.

Joel

Fonze

08-19-2007, 01:37 AM

San diego is actually really nice after they built the ball park and kicked all the hobos out they completely redeveloped the place.

PKaBooo69

08-20-2007, 09:40 PM

Waaaa Waaa Waaaa, cry me a river. If someone U-Turns in my driveway, know how much I care? None. No harm, no foul. People need to grow up.

P_chan

08-20-2007, 09:42 PM

I think downtown Chicago is one of the nicest downtown areas of any major US city. Glad you got a chance to experience it.

Joel

Heh just stay out of the south side. But heck I'm from the south side and I still love it!

DoctorP

08-20-2007, 09:54 PM

San diego is actually really nice after they built the ball park and kicked all the hobos out they completely redeveloped the place.

Isn't this a pretty sad statement? Built a new ball park and kicked all the hobos out...how about building a slightly less nice ballpark then next door building housing for these "hobos" and put the "hobos" to work at the new ballpark? Everyone wins!

JSSAUCE

08-20-2007, 11:42 PM

Heh just stay out of the south side. But heck I'm from the south side and I still love it!

Its is getting nicer. Mult million dollar condos where the projects once were.

Joel

kilo_four-six

08-21-2007, 06:17 AM

Uchinamuku has it right, the war ended 60 years ago. I had my fun there too and wouldn't trade it for anything but I too take the Okinawans side, time for us to leave and stop ravaging their island. Although I lay the blame for the whole mess squarely on the Imperial Japanese who made it a target for us in the first place just to buy a few months more time for themselves. Guam is not too far away and it's U.S. territory, let's go.

silviasichigo

08-21-2007, 07:54 AM

Muku

08-21-2007, 08:10 AM

Although I lay the blame for the whole mess squarely on the Imperial Japanese who made it a target for us in the first place just to buy a few months more time for themselves.

True, but that era is long over.

CGoki

08-21-2007, 09:51 AM

Really tongue in cheek here, how about if I just walked into your house to use the bathroom because I had to take a dump?

Would you make a big deal about it?

Too damn funny, it makes me envision "Me, Myself and Irene" when Carrey went into the neighbor's house, took back his paper and then proceeded to take a shite on the lawn.:thumbup:

Fonze

08-21-2007, 09:56 AM

ya guam is not to far ,but america has invested to much time and money on japan as a whole. the u.s is trimming down and i think that will buy them about 20yrs.

CGoki

08-21-2007, 10:01 AM

I'm not getting worked up. Seriously if someone came into my house out of no wear to take a dump I would poop on their face.

Now if someone made a U turn in my driveway I would just say 'meh'. I wouldn't come out of the house in a bath robe with a shot gun.

I might come out like Dane Cook and threaten them if they ever came in my driveway again I would cut their head off and then hope they never again came in my driveway or I would have to cut their head off. :first:

Muku

08-21-2007, 10:08 AM

ya guam is not to far ,but america has invested to much time and money on japan as a whole. the u.s is trimming down and i think that will buy them about 20yrs.

Are you aware of the proposal on the table to move 15,000 Marines and families to Guam? It all hinges on the Henoko runways being built and the Japanese Gov. coughing up the cash to upgrade the facilities in Guam.

If Henoko goes through pretty much all of the bases on the southern end of the island will be gone. They were originally scheduled for return by 2014.

CGoki

08-21-2007, 10:19 AM

I agree, she was off her rocker and she probably was concerned that someone was going to snatch one of her kids. But seriously, how often does a US servicemember drive a 2-ton military truck onto school property and kidnap kids. This man/woman has issues.

Even more ridiculous if that was her thinking when the kids were not on school grounds at the time due to vacation.

Fonze

08-21-2007, 10:32 AM

Muku

08-21-2007, 11:02 AM

Thats what I meant by trimming down. I thought that the Japanese govt was coughig up the cash for Guam the problem is with the whole henoko project.

Hey Uchi who do you think is going to give in on the runway project?
I know Nago has the most going and wonder how long the'll stand with the governor.
Personally I think the Japanese government is going to win this one, no matter how much the environmentalists and everyone complains about it.

However in my opinion the Marines and families that they want to move to Guam are not the people that cause the trouble for Okinawan's and Japanese. In my opinion if they are going to move any troops at all it should be the grunts from up north.

Asshat

08-21-2007, 02:13 PM

However in my opinion the Marines and families that they want to move to Guam are not the people that cause the trouble for Okinawan's and Japanese. In my opinion if they are going to move any troops at all it should be the grunts from up north.

Two points here. First one is that the term causing trouble with Okinawans is a widely accepted term, the actual numbers simply do not support such a sweeping statement. What trouble? Is the crime rates of these Marines higher than that of the local populace, or any other demographic group here?

Secondly, the opponets of that Guam move cite the exact thing you said. "The Marines are regularly raping Okinawan girls, and do you want that to happen to your sisters on Guam?" Yet you are correct in infering it will be the older, more senior Marines moving with their families. Not the young rabble-rousers who by the way, must be back on base at a certain time, many of which who are not allowed to leave the base at all.

Muku

08-21-2007, 02:28 PM

Two points here. First one is that the term causing trouble with Okinawans is a widely accepted term, the actual numbers simply do not support such a sweeping statement. What trouble? Is the crime rates of these Marines higher than that of the local populace, or any other demographic group here?

Ok what "numbers" do you refer to? It isnt a sweeping statement either any incident from jaywalking to murder could be prevented if the US Military wasnt here. That is something people have yet to grasp. That black and white way of looking at the problem.

Let me clarify something else here, the term causing Okinawan's and Japanese prolems or trouble by their very existance here.

There that should make it very clear.

Another thing the "local" populace statement means nothing. Doesnt matter if the local populace kills a 100 people a night, it's their community not the US Military's. Demographics are simple, there are three main groups, US Military, "gaijin" residents and Japanese. But like I said it doesnt matter what the crime figures are for any other group, it's the US Military.

Secondly, the opponets of that Guam move cite the exact thing you said. "The Marines are regularly raping Okinawan girls, and do you want that to happen to your sisters on Guam?" Yet you are correct in infering it will be the older, more senior Marines moving with their families. Not the young rabble-rousers who by the way, must be back on base at a certain time, many of which who are not allowed to leave the base at all.
I rarely if ever hear anyone make the comment that Marines are regularly raping Okinawan girls. So I dont know where that came from.

Oh it isnt an inference either about the families moving.

Lastly let it be Guam, it's US territory and not foreign soil.

Asshat

08-21-2007, 02:53 PM

That is something people have yet to grasp. That black and white way of looking at the problem.

Thank you for your clarification.

I rarely if ever hear anyone make the comment that Marines are regularly raping Okinawan girls. So I dont know where that came from.

It is stated regularly on Guam forums. Try the on-line version of the PDN and look around. It's there.

Lastly let it be Guam, it's US territory and not foreign soil.

It's a great idea. My home there is now worth a lot more, and after three decades of living here, it is time to go...as well as the vast majority of the "gaijin community" here who have called Okinawa home....despite the fact that we have soiled the place with our very presence. After all, had I not been here, I wouldn't have had that traffic accident 16 years ago.:thumbup1:

texaninokinawa

08-21-2007, 02:55 PM

I am sad and surprised at many posts from so-called military members. I don't know if you are really posting your true feelings or if you are trying to get a rise out of someone but in both cases, it does not represent the best side of being an American. As a Hispanic, I endured quite a bit of discrimination from so-called better and smarter people. Please stop acting like them and take the high road. I wonder how many of your commanders would feel at reading some of their men and women's post here. Why is it that we have to make such comments about Okinawans as if they are subjects or servants? If this country truly is free and democratic then why do we as Americans expect its people to subject to whatever we want them to do. I hope that my rant causes some do to some soul-searching. Have many of you lost faith in your God? Or just don't believe? I wonder sometimes.... Keep the faith and the truth will be known.

CGoki

08-21-2007, 03:00 PM

Why must religion be brought into it? Seriously.

Muku

08-21-2007, 03:11 PM

It's a great idea. My home there is now worth a lot more, and after three decades of living here, it is time to go...as well as the vast majority of the "gaijin community" here who have called Okinawa home.....
That's because you the vast majority of your "gaijin" community have always depended upon the bases for your living. If the bases leave then your cash cow disappears as well.

despite the fact that we have soiled the place with our very presence. After all, had I not been here, I wouldn't have had that traffic accident 16 years

Well what do you think your legacy will be once you leave?

"Dont let the door bust ya in the butt on the way out":D:rolleyes:

I may not have been here 3 decades but I am getting close.:-|

Asshat

08-21-2007, 03:44 PM

If the bases leave then your cash cow disappears as well.

Yep, and only those who are here because wifey lets them hang out on their gaijin torokusho will be left. LMAO!

Well what do you think your legacy will be once you leave?

A whole bunch of friends from a life of living here, cleaner beaches, a mentality towards a cleaner environment, and a spirit of friendship across Asia that spans ethnic differences.

And four children, and seven grandchildren, but heck, anyone can do that.

I may not have been here 3 decades but I am getting close.:-|

In that case, we might know each other. :)

Muku

08-21-2007, 03:59 PM

Yep, and only those who are here because wifey lets them hang out on their gaijin torokusho will be left. LMAO!

Well I am past that one anyway, dont need the wife to stay here. Nice to have but not a necessity. Just dont tell her that though:scared::eek::D

A whole bunch of friends from a life of living here, cleaner beaches, a mentality towards a cleaner environment, and a spirit of friendship across Asia that spans ethnic differences.
I applaud that, and I hope it sticks.:thumbup::first:

And four children, and seven grandchildren, but heck, anyone can do that.
Not to the grandkids stage just yet, but time will tell.

In that case, we might know each other.
Odds are high that we have at least run into each other somewhere on this "huge" :-| island.

Fonze

08-21-2007, 05:08 PM

Muku

08-21-2007, 08:18 PM

I already put this in the other one, but fyi this principle better get use to seeing more navy here cause the new hospital is going to be bigger than lesters cause it will accomadate more urgent care than this one can provide for all of the pacific theater
Well if the ambulance drivers start making u turns at her school than I suggest that there is a much bigger problem than just somebody being way off course.:D

DougP

08-22-2007, 01:07 AM

How many people here have uchi or umin in there name? pls stand up :)

bad_karma

08-22-2007, 06:30 PM

Well I am past that one anyway, dont need the wife to stay here. Nice to have but not a necessity. Just dont tell her that though

Uchi: Looks like we have yet another thing in common...a fellow eijuusha, eh?

Peace,

BK out

Asshat

08-23-2007, 06:07 AM

How many people here have uchi or umin in there name? pls stand up :)

I was the orginal BEFORE the shirts came out. As if anyone wearing them really knows what or where Yaeyama is! (The people there refer to their island as Okinawa, and refer to Okinawa as the Gunto or "main island.")

Muku

08-23-2007, 08:34 AM

How many people here have uchi or umin in there name? pls stand up

ANother thing my handle isnt just Uchi:eek:. Since people dont know I have been letting it go, however it would be more proper to shorten it to Uchina, which means Okinawa

@bad_karma:thumbup:

Fonze

08-25-2007, 07:51 PM

Is that uchina because Okinawa has a chinese related past.

DOCROB

03-31-2008, 03:02 PM

Oh for FVCKS Sake!(steps on soap box) We are on an Island where people live close together because of space constraints. Things are bound to happen. Stop nit picking over every little thing that happens. I could understand people being mad if it was a Tank, ATV, or a Humvee with weapons on top going on to school grounds but not over a van. Just get over it people no one was or has been harmed, and no damage was done to school property. Why do some Japanese / Okinawan people always seem to or want to blow things WAY out of proportion. Well I think sometimes y'all nit pickers need to get a life!!! It's not like you've never been lost or passed up the place you wanted to go so you pulled in someplace for a u-turn ie: Lawsons, or Familymart. All the Training and Promises in the world are not going to stop things like this from happening, they may be reduced but will never be ceased. If you want to scream about something scream about how the Japanese government keeps screwing you over. As for the people who are not Japanese or Okinawan and want to take the locals side remember Your Gaijin not Japanese and thats the way your looked at, Bottom Line!(Steps down from soap box) DOCROB