Vegetarian Yes or No!

[Muku]

Personally I am a meat eater, I have nothing against people who are vegetarians however I do not appreciate vegetarians that attempt to push their values or life choices on to others. People that come across as condemming others for the "slaughter" of animals for consumption.

I believe that each person has his or her own right to choose what they want to put into their own bodies for nutritional purposes.

Well comments anyone.... here is your chance to discuss issues related to vegetarianism, their lifestyles, for or against.

Oh yes don't forget to vote as well.

[dk]

Definitely not a vegetarian.

I've already posted in a few vegetarian topics, so I'll just leave it at that. :p

[TheNoNamedOne]

I like this OP topic and new thread because it addresses the right or nonright, or the correctness of, 'pushing' (I would call encouraging) a vegetarian diet.

Uchinamuku, what qualifies as "pushing" in your opinion as opposed to "encouraging", and why would those words be applicable and acceptable/appropriate to other things in history that some saw as injustices and fought for change, even if that meant condemning what was a personal choice at those times as opposed to now and diet?

[Muku]

Uchinamuku, what qualifies as "pushing" in your opinion as opposed to "encouraging", and why would those words be applicable to other things in history that some saw as injustices and fought for change, even if that meant condemning what was a personal choice at those times?

Good question, first off what is the definition of a vegetarian?

Definitions of a Vegetarian on the Web. (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:Vegetarian&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title)

Oh pushing and encouraging depends on who is doing the pushing or encouraging and who is listening. It's semantics.

Also much depends on what one person considers to be condeming or injustice. For example I have zero problems with people raising and slaughtering beef for my consumption. However I never push anyone into making the same choices I do, even if I believed it to be the right personal choice.

I do not like people telling me that I am wrong for eating meat or wear the hides of animals as being immoral. The choice of vocabulary for vegetarians also bothers me as well;

Vegans choose to act positively to reduce this cruelty by abstaining from animal-derived products and thereby reducing the demand for them. Vegans realise that it is unnecessary to inflict suffering on animals in order to lead a healthy, happy, normal life.

Scroll down to Definition of "Veganism" on the following link;
Definition of a Vegan (http://www.vnv.org.au/Definitions.htm#Definition%20of%20"Vegetarianism")

If one wants to get totally technical about this, vegetarians are harming, inflicting suffering and are cruel towards all vegetables and plant life as well. Just because a plant doesnt necessarily communicate in the same manner as an animal does not make it a lesser for of life. Humankind depends on nature and many different types of plant life for our own survival. Vegetarians are assisting to kill off that plant life through consumption of plantlife.

Now you can take that last paragraph tongue in cheek but it does make a point in my opinion about the level of caring that vegetarians show towards "intelligent" life.

[DougP]

In this case, once again, not for or against but I'd rather have a steak then salad. But I also enjoy a salad with my steak. I'll probably stop smoking long before I stop eating meat :)

[Muku]

applicable to other things in history
I wanted to keep my reply to this separate because I am not sure what exactly you are refering to and what "things in history" that would make a difference in this discussion.

[socalheart]

I like this OP topic and new thread because it addresses the right or nonright, or the correctness of, 'pushing' (I would call encouraging) a vegetarian diet.

HA! :D Dude, it's a YES/NO type of question. :confused: How does the OP post/thread address anything but the inexplicable urge to answer a poll question? I joke, but seriously, where's that nifty "would you like to take a survey" gadget? Is it part of the forums?

[Muku]

HA! :D Dude, it's a YES/NO type of question. :confused: How does the OP post/thread address anything but the inexplicable urge to answer a poll question? I joke, but seriously, where's that nifty "would you like to take a survey" gadget? Is it part of the forums?
When you start a new thread, look down towards the bottom of the page you will see a check box if you want to add a poll to the post as well. After submitting the new thread you will be taken to the poll options page, where you can create your own poll. Key word here is new thread.

[TheNoNamedOne]

HA! :D Dude, it's a YES/NO type of question. :confused: How does the OP post/thread address anything but the inexplicable urge to answer a poll question? I joke, ...

<sigh>

From the OP, look here:

Well comments anyone.... here is your chance to discuss issues related to vegetarianism, their lifestyles, for or against.

I joke, but seriously I don't see the need --- oh forget it, it may be lost on you.

[dk]

Still waiting on your vote TP! Wonder which way you're gonna vote! *bites nails*

[dk]

In this case, once again, not for or against but I'd rather have a steak then salad. But I also enjoy a salad with my steak. I'll probably stop smoking long before I stop eating meat :)
If you eat meat, you're not a vegetarian, so the answer is "No" lol... Way to waste that vote man!! :D

[DoctorP]

Wow no vegatarians here at all huh?

[DougP]

If you eat meat, you're not a vegetarian, so the answer is "No" lol... Way to waste that vote man!! :D

oops. didn't read that one all they way. I thought it was one of those "for it or against it" kind of things. I'll probably never be a vegetarian but I don't have a problem with those who are.

[P_chan]

I eat meat, just ate a lot tonight

Let's not forget about the animals that live in fields that get crushed and killed by harvesting machines. Limit the suffering my behind!

[dk]

I'll probably never be a vegetarian but I don't have a problem with those who are.
Same here man. Great mindset. :first:

[P_chan]

I too don't have a grudge against vegetarians. That is as long as they don't push their beliefs on me and look down on me because of my personal preference.

[DoctorP]

Put it this way. I don't have a problem with Gays, but then they aren't walking around trying to sway me their way. Then their is TP...trying to sway me to be vegatarian! I just don't want other people trying to tell me what to put in my mouth! Is that clear enough?

:barf:

[dk]

DoctorP, eat that steak OR ELSE.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Still waiting on your vote TP! Wonder which way you're gonna vote! *bites nails*

I think you know which way I would vote. However, I have never participated in forum polls (except for the skins here).

I will tell you right now, that the number of pure vegetarians within the U.S. is usually pegged at around 1.5~2.5% of the population (some estimates are higher). If we go on this very conservative estimate and if the membership represents a good cross section of U.S. society, then when we have 100 votes here, it should be about 2.5%.

However, I think that within the sub community of the military as part of society, the percentage is even lower, for the military has often been viewed as a conservative part of society. I would bet that the percent would actually be about 1% and throughout the voting will probably reflect that. I think a poll like this should have waited until a larger membership base of active voters came about.

But that is just my opinion. Vote away and just impose my vote within your mental calculations to get the final vote.

[DoctorP]

I think a poll like this should have waited until a larger membership base of active voters came about.

But that is just my opinion. Vote away and just impose my vote within your mental calculations to get the final vote.

What difference does it make? The poll doesn't have a closing date, and new members can vote anytime.

[dk]

Exactly. We'll just leave this running forever. I don't see what the issue is about voting. Our results will be off without you.

I could vote for you, but that'd be a real richardish thing of me to do so I won't. :p

[TheNoNamedOne]

Good question, first off what is the definition of a vegetarian?

Uchi, since it looks like I will be the sole person arguing here, eventhough I am a vegan, I will argue from the pure vegetarian or vegan point, which was posted in your second link above.

Basically, I consume no animal products.

Oh pushing and encouraging depends on who is doing the pushing or encouraging and who is listening. It's semantics.

Also much depends on what one person considers to be condeming or injustice.

Then it sounds like you are going to set the post for the difference in meaning arbitrarily based on your prejudice of what is condemning and injustice and that willl be linked to the one doing such.

If someone travels to Africa to campaign against clitoral mutilation and speaks against it there, are they "pushing against it" or "encouraging those people to give it up"? If either term is acceptable, then you and I do not have a difference on this. But since you qualified your answer with "depends on" I am expecting you to be prejudiced on the use of terms.

For example I have zero problems with people raising and slaughtering beef for my consumption. However I never push anyone into making the same choices I do, even if I believed it to be the right personal choice.

That is because you do not see it as an ethical or moral problem. Others do. Would you have zero problems with people mutilating young girls' clitoruses in your community so that they would be good choices for older men to chose as wives? Would you remain silent on that? Or would you try and persuade others to abandon such a custom -- a custom you have not chosen.

What if it were human sacrifice? Would you still be mute on the point? I think once you view it as a moral or ethical question, you are obligated to speak against it. Or perhaps you would still remain silent. I don't know. In history though, such as Abolitionists, they spoke up against what they saw as an ethical and moral question. I am glad they did, and did so on what they believed was the right moral choice -- even at a time when they were a minority and in the beginning derided for their beliefs and attempts at pushing for change.

I do not like people telling me that I am wrong for eating meat or wear the hides of animals as being immoral.

That is ok. You are permitted to not like it.

The choice of vocabulary for vegetarians also bothers me as well;

What specifically?

If one wants to get totally technical about this, vegetarians are harming, inflicting suffering and are cruel towards all vegetables and plant life as well. Just because a plant doesnt necessarily communicate in the same manner as an animal does not make it a lesser for of life. Humankind depends on nature and many different types of plant life for our own survival. Vegetarians are assisting to kill off that plant life through consumption of plantlife.

Now you can take that last paragraph tongue in cheek but it does make a point in my opinion about the level of caring that vegetarians show towards "intelligent" life.

I addressed this here (http://www.japanupdate.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3897&postcount=66). Why don't you, if you would like, pick up on that theme there if you want to continue it.

[DougP]

Well I hope nobody gets offended by this pic but

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/DougGTR32/peta_rabbits.jpg

I guess its almost the aniti-vegetarian's way of flag burning

[dk]

That made me lol hard hahahaha.

[P_chan]

PETA does in fact suck.

[Muku]

Others do. Would you have zero problems with people mutilating young girls' clitoruses in your community so that they would be good choices for older men to chose as wives?
Sorry I missed this post, but I can not even image making the analogy that being a meat eater is anything even close to what you are infering here.

I am not talking about the mutilation of human beings I am talking about my right to eat a steak without you or anyone else in fact trying to tell me I am wrong.

Your choices are your choices, I respect you for that, however I think it is rather insulting to attempt to make the analogy that these two issues are even closely related.

And I agree with Doc P as well when he wrote;
Put it this way. I don't have a problem with Gays, but then they aren't walking around trying to sway me their way. Then their is TP...trying to sway me to be vegatarian! I just don't want other people trying to tell me what to put in my mouth! Is that clear enough?


And lastly;

What specifically
Using words such as animal cruelty, slaughter, and many others along these lines to describe not only the animals but the people that eat them.

I dont make insinuations about people that are vegetarians, I would appreciate them not doing the same to us carnivores.:D

[TheNoNamedOne]

Sorry I missed this post, but I can not even image making the analogy that being a meat eater is anything even close to what you are infering here.

Uchinamuku, the point is not one of clitorus mutilation and eating meat being close to each other. Obviously they are two different things.

The point, which you seem to not be grasping, is that of being obligated by those who perceive either one of those to be wrong, immoral, or an injustice, to speak out against them. Their perception and belief compels them to do so, and just because you do not have the same perception, does not mean that their right to attempt to persuade you is wrong by default -- regardless of whatever customary or legal right you have now or not.

You may not like it. Fine. But your dislike is no bulwork for protection, or even a reasonable defense to say that people do not have the right to state that a meat eating diet is immoral or unethical in today's modern world.

Indignation is not a valid argument. It is merely a sloppy, if not lazy defense. It has never stood up in the long run against rights won at the expense of the status quo in winning rights and lessening suffering.

The choice of vocabulary for vegetarians also bothers me as well;

Using words such as animal cruelty, slaughter, and many others along these lines to describe not only the animals but the people that eat them.

Well, the acceptance of those words on behalf of animals in winning legislative decisions and ballot referendoms are a fait accompli. They have already entered the vernacular of AR lawyers who fight and argue their cases before judges and the voting public. You just have to deal with it. If you refuse to, then you can just deny reality as those words are used more and more.

What words would you have animal/vegetarian advocates use to describe those things if you were to deny those words for them to use? Would you sanitize them to take away any emotional element from the process of meat production? That would be rather unfair to say that you or the agri corps get to decide the vocabulary of those who are pushing and persuading against you, wouldn't it?

In any event, your indignation there, too, is moot. It, too, is a fait accompli.

I dont make insinuations about people that are vegetarians, I would appreciate them not doing the same to us carnivores

We don't make insinuations against you carnivores in that we don't say, "people who eat meat are cruel people." Rather, we say, a "meat diet is a cruel one." It seems like a subtle difference, but it in fact it is a large difference, just like saying:


John is an idiot.


versus


John said an idiotic thing.


Do you see the difference? You should, and if not you should familiarize yourself with it, because whether you like it or not, a lot of change is going to happen in the courtrooms, and there in the legal speak of reason before judges and juries, the technicalities count.

[Fonze]

Hey iv'e been reading many threads with you TP and you seem very anal, not to say your not good in your responses. You seem like a very smart articulate person , but you question not only other responses but also there questions. I will continue to read your other comments to see if you have just agreed to disagree or agree and question the the reason you agree.

Are you a part time veg or can you answer the poll, or are you better than the rest of the people that answered the poll?

[dk]

Are you a part time veg or can you answer the poll, or are you better than the rest of the people that answered the poll?
I think you know which way I would vote. However, I have never participated in forum polls (except for the skins here).

That's why.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Hey iv'e been reading many threads with you TP and you seem very anal, not to say your not good in your responses. You seem like a very smart articulate person , but you question not only other responses but also there questions. I will continue to read your other comments to see if you have just agreed to disagree or agree and question the the reason you agree.

Hi Fonze, thanks for some of the nice things you said there and for continuing to read my comments.

As for being "anal" -- lol. Well, I tend to focus on the more serious controversial topics, and I like to in a more serious tone. We all have our reasons for posting on forums. My main one is that I am not in the English speaking community here and really like the opportunity to speak at a higher level than just daily conversation -- which is what most Japanese around me can only handle.

Though, splattered throughout the forum, you will come across some of my postings that are more light in nature. I did that more when the forum first came on line, I guess in an effort to help fill out the topics for more talking points. Since there are many more members now, I really don't see a need in posting so much in the daily banter. I can do that with people in the real world around me.

Are you a part time veg ..., or are you better than the rest of the people that answered the poll?

lol. Nahh, on both counts. dk briefly reminds us why in the post prior.

See ya on the boards.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

I don't know if people who believe that meat production is not cruel have ever seen the process of meat production, from farm to plate. To get a big supply of cheap meat, you need to mass produce. That means overcrowding, force-feeding, use of hormones, anitbiotics, and so on. Animals react to these conditions in similar ways to people...various psychotic behaviors.

People get up in arms very quickly when hearing about dog meat consumption in some Asian countries, horse meat being eaten in France and Japan, wildlife poached for Asian medicine and aphrodisiacs. But they rarely extend that thinking to animals commonly consumed for meat in the West. The pet lobby seems far stronger than the livestock lobby. I guess it's built in to the language, viewing some animals as "stock", as opposed to living creatures.

I think it would be healthier to reduce the proportion of meat in the average Western diet. It is certainly out of balance with what is necessary and healthy. It would also be a more realistic target to aim for than complete vegetarianism.

[P_chan]

I don't know if people who believe that meat production is not cruel have ever seen the process of meat production, from farm to plate. To get a big supply of cheap meat, you need to mass produce. That means overcrowding, force-feeding, use of hormones, anitbiotics, and so on. Animals react to these conditions in similar ways to people...various psychotic behaviors.

Trust me I think a majority of us know how it is. He'll I've heard about the 'horrors' of the meat industry in this forum more then anywhere else in my entire life. It still doesn't change the fact that I love meat. Sure I know animals have to suffer but you know what, I don't care they're animals.

It would bother me a bit if they took free roaming animals and slaughtered them. But they don't, those animals were raised for slaughter.

I think it would be healthier to reduce the proportion of meat in the average Western diet. It is certainly out of balance with what is necessary and healthy. It would also be a more realistic target to aim for than complete vegetarianism.

Good point, I agree with you on that matter.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

It would bother me a bit if they took free roaming animals and slaughtered them. But they don't, those animals were raised for slaughter.

By the same logic, it would be ok to raise humans in a lab for scientific research, wouldn't it?

[DougP]

humans are not animals. Animals are animals.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

humans are not animals. Animals are animals.
Actually, humans are a type of animal:D
And, I believe animals (certainly at least mammals, and very likely many other types) have feelings. I have seen too many pets and farm animals display what can only be called emotions to think differently. Your comment leads me to conclude that perhaps you think they don't. That is kind of the crux of the issue, wouldn't you say?

[DougP]

Until I can sit down and talk with the other animals I'll never know for sure if animal feelings are like people feelings. I can only speculate like everyone else.:)

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Until I can sit down and talk with the other animals I'll never know for sure if animal feelings are like people feelings. I can only speculate like everyone else.:)
Are words the only form of communication? Then how do we know baby feeling are the same as adult feelings? We'd only be able to speculate that they are in pain and so on. Clearly that's not the case. Body language, sounds other than words, and other behaviors can give a careful observer a lot of information. If animals were nothing but biochemical machines, why would they hover for hours and hours over a lost offspring, vocalizing and acting very much in distress? Why would a mere automaton do that?

[dk]

So, eelecurb... Are you a vegetarian? Did you vote?

[DougP]

Are words the only form of communication? Then how do we know baby feeling are the same as adult feelings? We'd only be able to speculate that they are in pain and so on. Clearly that's not the case. Body language, sounds other than words, and other behaviors can give a careful observer a lot of information. If animals were nothing but biochemical machines, why would they hover for hours and hours over a lost offspring, vocalizing and acting very much in distress? Why would a mere automaton do that?

I never know what babies are trying to say. That's why I either feed them, burp them, change their diaper, sing to them etc. Until we can communicate through words we can only guess what they're feeling. Still doesn't mean that people feelings and animal feelings are the same. And until I can talk to animals I can't effectively communicate with them enough to know. I can only guess like I do with a human baby. At least after a while the Human child and I can have a conversation.:D

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

I'm not a vegetarian. I try to eat meat in moderation, and eat as healthy as possible. I am sypathetic to the animal rights people. I grew up in a small rural community, and have been to farms, feedlots, abbatoirs. I worked with experimental animals in my university days, and spent a lot of time both in and out of class learning about animal welfare and animal rights (they are different). I worked in the ag biz for a time after finishing school. So the topic interests me.

I didn't vote, as I don't think the choices were designed to give a meaningful answer. I enjoy the discussion, however.

[dk]

Well, you're more than welcome to discuss this. :) Was just wondering.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

I never know what babies are trying to say. That's why I either feed them, burp them, change their diaper, sing to them etc. Until we can communicate through words we can only guess what they're feeling. Still doesn't mean that people feelings and animal feelings are the same. And until I can talk to animals I can't effectively communicate with them enough to know. I can only guess like I do with a human baby. At least after a while the Human child and I can have a conversation.:D
My wife knows when the baby is hungry, wet, gassy, etc. by the sound of the cry, the timing, and intuition.

Is verbal communication the only way to understand? I'm not sure you answered. Since I can't speak Chinese, I'll never understand the feelings a Chinese person has? How do you know feelings are applicable across races and cultures? You can't speak with all of them.

[DougP]

My wife knows when the baby is hungry, wet, gassy, etc. by the sound of the cry, the timing, and intuition.

Is verbal communication the only way to understand? I'm not sure you answered. Since I can't speak Chinese, I'll never understand the feelings a Chinese person has? How do you know feelings are applicable across races and cultures? You can't speak with all of them.

I did answer the question
And until I can talk to animals I can't effectively communicate with them enough to know

I can't speak Chinese either and when I went to Taiwan I thought everyone was pissed off for a while because of how loudly they were speaking to one another. Sounded like an argument. But in fact that's how it is. A lot of people over there sound pissed off when they really aren't. So yes without being able to effectively communicate via talking its difficult sometimes to understand what others are feeling.

Hell even when my wife tells me in plain english or japanese how she's feeling I'm may not truely understand. Why because sometimes women hide their emotions. So do men.

I'm not saying that animals do not have feelings I'm just saying I have a hard time believing they are the same as human feelings. By that I mean on the same level. And unless anyone out there has talked to the animals how can I think otherwise.

Its like listening to someone arguing that god exists just purely because they believe so. Have you talked to god? No? Have you seen him? No.

You asked: Is verbal communication the only way to understand?

Its the only way for me to understand completely. Yes I can guess other what other people are feeling, thinking etc. But that's because I'm human also.:D

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Its the only way for me to understand completely. Yes I can guess other what other people are feeling, thinking etc. But that's because I'm human also.:D
Do you need to understand completely? Seeing animal grief and human grief I can note similarity. Seeing animal happiness and human happiness I can make some comparison.

How can you equate this with the god issue? I have not, to the best of my knowlege, interacted with the or a god. I have interacted with animals.

[TheLastDon]

I was wondering what vegans feed their pets. Or if you are a vegan are you not supposed to have pets. Say for instance if I was vegan and I have a cat and I buy him cat food with any kind of meat or meat product in it, is that wrong? Aren't cats basically carnivores? Can cats survive on plant products only?

[Muku]

I was wondering what vegans feed their pets. Or if you are a vegan are you not supposed to have pets. Say for instance if I was vegan and I have a cat and I buy him cat food with any kind of meat or meat product in it, is that wrong? Aren't cats basically carnivores? Can cats survive on plant products only?
That is a great question and I would also extend it to dogs and any other pets that eat meat to survive.

But I am going to assume that it is ok for animals to eat the flesh of other animals. The problem is human animals eating the flesh of other animals.

I wonder if there is any case of a vegan being a canibal?

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

I was wondering what vegans feed their pets. Or if you are a vegan are you not supposed to have pets. Say for instance if I was vegan and I have a cat and I buy him cat food with any kind of meat or meat product in it, is that wrong? Aren't cats basically carnivores? Can cats survive on plant products only?
An excellent question! Most meat for pet foods comes from the rendering plant, and originates in the same place as the steak, etc. You'd expect that the cats & dogs would be allowed to hunt, or fed roadkill.

[TheNoNamedOne]

The technical issue regarding ethics in consuming meat for veganism or vegetarianism is not one of eating meat per se` -- it is one of exploiting animals for their meat.

For example, there is no ethical issue involved with eating the meat from road kill, or a carcass you stumble upon in the woods where an animal has died naturally.

Likewise, if scientists ever learn to grow meat in laboratories from cultured cells, then that meat has no ethical issue of exploitation and suffering associated with it.

Eat up that Frankenmeat!

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

The technical issue regarding ethics in consuming meat for veganism or vegetarianism is not one of eating meat per se` -- it is one of exploiting animals for their meat.

For example, there is no ethical issue involved with eating the meat from road kill, or a carcass you stumble upon in the woods where an animal has died naturally.

Likewise, if scientists ever learn to grow meat in laboratories from cultured cells, then that meat has no ethical issue of exploitation and suffering associated with it.

Eat up that Frankenmeat!
I agree with this position. However, the pet food issue would still violate the exploitation prohibition. The source of the meat for humans and pets is ultimately the same. I'm sure vegetarian pet owners exist, and likely feed their pets commerical pet food. While they likely have no bad intentions, they'd be rather hypocritical.

[DougP]

Do you need to understand completely? Seeing animal grief and human grief I can note similarity. Seeing animal happiness and human happiness I can make some comparison.

How can you equate this with the god issue? I have not, to the best of my knowlege, interacted with the or a god. I have interacted with animals.

I see what you're saying. I do. I'm saying I don't think they are on the same level as human emotions feels. I'm skeptic because there is no absolute proof

Seeing animal happiness and human happiness I can make some comparison.

Speculation on whether its on the same level.

Have you ever seen a shrimp express feelings of joy or sadness?

(i'm eating one now that's why I brought that up:) )


I'm not saying its ok to subject animals to poor treatment. But Trying to compare animals to humans and using instances like slavery and the holocaust is absurd. More AR smoke and mirrors tactics. Apples and oranges and I do not see the connection.

[DoctorP]

wow...still no vegatarians in the forums! Woohoo!

[DougP]

The technical issue regarding ethics in consuming meat for veganism or vegetarianism is not one of eating meat per se` -- it is one of exploiting animals for their meat.

For example, there is no ethical issue involved with eating the meat from road kill, or a carcass you stumble upon in the woods where an animal has died naturally.

Likewise, if scientists ever learn to grow meat in laboratories from cultured cells, then that meat has no ethical issue of exploitation and suffering associated with it.

Eat up that Frankenmeat!

If and when they do start making this Frankenmeat and its cheap and delicious and readily available I will jump on the AR wagon for sure.:thumbup1:


Just don't expect too much protesting out of me because I'll be too busy grilling my testtube steaks:D

[Muku]

wow...still no vegatarians in the forums! Woohoo!


WE all know there is one vegan here though:rolleyes:. However he is too afraid to be in the minority to put his vote in the poll I think.

Another word comes to mind but I digress......http://www.oldetimecooking.com/Images/chicken.jpg

[DoctorP]

cornish hen??? :cool:

[Hollarey]

cornish hen??? :cool:

hahahahahaha:thumbup:

[TheNoNamedOne]

One of our members here is bluehen. dk thinks he/she is a bot.

[dk]

TP... come on man... a bot would be an IT!

Well, at least a real bot. When it's a human, it's just a forum spammer.

[P_chan]

Or a forum troll. But there are many different kinds of forum trolls and I think we already have one of those :D

[TheNoNamedOne]

Or a forum troll. But there are many different kinds of forum trolls and I think we already have one of those :D

Then you need to take such serious issues as trolls to the Forum Feedback area below, or report those posts so we can tell you if you are right or wrong on your judgement.

Anything else to add on vegetarianism?

[P_chan]

Nope I've already spoken my mind, numerous times, on the subject. I try not to repeat myself too much, it can get annoying. Also don't like to jump on users for trivial BS like making a comment in a joking manner:D

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Have you ever seen a shrimp express feelings of joy or sadness?

No. But, a shrimp is not a mammal or bird (one of the so-called higher animals). Do shrimp have the capacity for suffering? I don't know. Birds and mammals. Yes.

[DougP]

They may not have feelings but I still love shrimp. Besides nothing I eat these days is alive and feeling at the time I'm eating it :D I guess I'm not a carnivore in the hunter sense per say but more of a scavenger.:)

[TheNoNamedOne]

Are you getting your shrimp from dumpster diving, DougP? If not, I think your comparison is a little off.

A more accurate comparison would be that you contract your killing out for you with your wallet. But, yeah, you still are not a hunter. You hunt by proxy.

[DougP]

Well I may have to pay some cash for my meal but don't think for a second that I would accept one for free :D Actually even the food in the dumpster could be considered a contract kill. The money has already passed hands long before either me or the dumpster go a hold of it.

[Oxmix]

I'm not a vegetarian. I eat meat, but I don't eat red meat. Chicken and fish.

Regards

Ox

[Isaak Brodsky]

Just fish for me.
Would that count as meat?

[TheNoNamedOne]

Yes, Ian. That counts as meat, too.

Besides the moral issues regarding the killing of fish, which also is unecessary, the fish industry has caused havoc on the oceans in terms of ecology and bringing many species close to collapse.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Simple vegetarian recipes:

http://pureland.blogspot.com/2007/11/simple-vegetarian-recipes-thinly-sliced.html#links

[Isaak Brodsky]

eelecurb,
Great post. I checked it out.
Problem is, I was drinking some red wine when I read a couple of them.
Ever had some Shiraz come travel up through your nasal pharynx??

[Bones]

I love vegetables, fungus(mushrooms), beef, chicken, fish.....

If it's out there, I'll eat it.

Live with it.

NBTP

[dk]

Simple vegetarian recipes:

http://pureland.blogspot.com/2007/11/simple-vegetarian-recipes-thinly-sliced.html#links
That's an excellent diet! :thumbup:

[Isaak Brodsky]

Whenever I see sauteed mushrooms (any variety) steaming on a dish, I have difficulty controlling my motor skills. Something suddenly clicks when my nose detects that smell rising off the 'shrooms. It's a near automatic feeding frenzy.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Yea, Ian. Me, too. Mushrooms are excellent!

[DougP]

Mushrooms are awesome, but they're not actually a vegetable are they? Doesn't matter to me, they taste great. I'm suddenly in the mood for some mushrooms and spinach... :(

[Muku]

Mushrooms are awesome, but they're not actually a vegetable are they? Doesn't matter to me, they taste great. I'm suddenly in the mood for some mushrooms and spinach... :(
Well if they arent vegetables what are they? :w00t:

Practically speaking I would think that they are vegetables but technically they may not be.

As you know a mushroom is a fungus which is neither a plant nor and animal. Sometimes they are used as a vegetable and sometimes as a "meat" like a grilled mushroom on a bun, because some people like their "meaty texture".

Isnt the word vegetable really just a culinary term? Because many of the foods that we think of as being vegetables are actually fruits and vice versa.

Like a watermelon is a vegetable and a tomato is a fruit. Just as grains are not vegetables either.

Well back to the mushrooms here....Have you ever had the Japanese Matsutake Mushroom?
http://www.tjf.or.jp/eng/content/japaneseculture/images/09_02.jpg

The Japanese Matsutake at the beginning of the season, which is the highest grade, can go up to $2000 per kilogram. In contrast, the average value for imported Matsutake is about $90 per kilogram.

Taken from;
Matsutake Mushroom. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matsutake)

[TheNoNamedOne]

I wonder if there is any case of a vegan being a canibal?

Have you heard anything yet about this oxymoron question?

Lots of meat eating criminals in jail.

[Asshat]

And buried in this thread is the assumption that only the liberal, more enlightened in our society are vegetarians. Meat eaters are more conservative in nature, like our ignorant military people out there.

But then I don't think people should be fat from over-eating, or not enough excersize either. So call me too an elitist.

Nothing tastes as good with mushrooms as butter. :)

[Singo_link]

i fell bad if dont eat meat

[Isaak Brodsky]

i can respect those who forgo meats for ethical reasons. it's just so difficult to pass up salmon, shrimp, lobster, etc.

[cohen avshalom]

for the last year i am vegetarian,this is very good for me,i feel more good that what i am eating is not making by dead of other,this better for my feeling that for sure.




cohen avshalom charly
israel/haifa
icarus5

[TheNoNamedOne]

for the last year i am vegetarian,this is very good for me,i feel more good that what i am eating is not making by dead of other,this better for my feeling that for sure.




cohen avshalom charly
israel/haifa
icarus5

Great to hear that, Cohen. What finally made you change your diet? Was it a particular book? Several books? Talking with other vegetarians? An epiphany?

Interested to hear what brought you to it.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

:) Enjoy the slideshow :)


http://webcenters.netscape.compuserve.com/celebrity/gallery.jsp?floc=g-sexiestvegetarians6-slideshow&gname=sexiestvegetarians&pl=true&spd=2000&pi=5&xad=false&grurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dc elebrity%2520vegetarians%26sourceid%3Dmozilla2%26i e%3Dutf-8%26oe%3Dutf-8&photo=6

:star: Sexiest Celebrity Vegetarians:star:

[Asshat]

:) Enjoy the slideshow :)


http://webcenters.netscape.compuserve.com/celebrity/gallery.jsp?floc=g-sexiestvegetarians6-slideshow&gname=sexiestvegetarians&pl=true&spd=2000&pi=5&xad=false&grurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dc elebrity%2520vegetarians%26sourceid%3Dmozilla2%26i e%3Dutf-8%26oe%3Dutf-8&photo=6

:star: Sexiest Celebrity Vegetarians:star:

Uh, yeah, real spanker material there eele...I bet you are scant hours from declaring your new found life-change! LMAO!

I like this quote the best:

"Well-known activist and actress Kim Basinger auctioned a 3.7 carat Tiffany & Co engagement ring from ex-hubby Alec Baldwin to raise money for The Performing Animal Welfare Society."

WoW! How phillanthropic!

[Asshat]

Pure SEX!

http://access.nscpcdn.com/gallery/i/s/sexiestvegetarians/lg2.jpg

Sexy actress Alicia Silverstone changed her life for the better when she became a vegan. This "World's Sexiest Vegetarian" says she's never been happier! Glowing with confidence, she credits her moral decision.

[Bones]

Just out of curiosity, if I ate vegetables for nourishment, and enjoy the fruits of my spouses body, would I be considered a vegetarian?

This is the one thing that always confuses me.

Oh, the steak is almost done.:cool:

Bones

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Natalie's more to my taste, but YMMV :)

http://www.celebrityroyale.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/465825453_5be254ee1d.jpg

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Great blog for vegetarian and vegan folks, or those who wanna get into it.

http://sodelicious.org/

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Just out of curiosity, if I ate vegetables for nourishment, and enjoy the fruits of my spouses body, would I be considered a vegetarian?

This is the one thing that always confuses me.

Oh, the steak is almost done.:cool:

Bones
Wouldn't that make you a vagitarian? :D

[badkitty]

I tried the Vegetarian thing but I need to gnaw on a steak every now and then. I give kudos to people that can give up meat. I don't have the will power.

[DoctorP]

Show me a vegetarian woman, and I'll show you at least one type of meat that she'll take!

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Oh, another pork sword joke! Thing is, with your luck, that woman would be Ellen. ;)

[DoctorP]

Oh, another pork sword joke! Thing is, with your luck, that woman would be Ellen. ;)

Show me a lesbian, and I guarantee there is still a piece of meat she chews on! :D

[Crazysix]

Show me a vegetarian woman, and I'll show you at least one type of meat that she'll take!
I dont know man I have seen a few veggies coming out smiling

[Jazz]

I made and ate a burger last night that I put bacon, grilled onions, sharp cheddar and chipotle bbq sauce on. If that is wrong then I don't ever want to be right.

[Muku]

I made and ate a burger last night that I put bacon, grilled onions, sharp cheddar and chipotle bbq sauce on. If that is wrong then I don't ever want to be right.

Not wrong at all :thumbup: There is no right nor wrong in my opinion about what choices people make on their own in deciding what foods to eat or not eat.

I will also note here that the overwhelming majority of respondents to the poll here have shown that vegatarianism is not the prefered way of life.

To each his or her own:thumbup1:

[thistle]

I am not a vegetarian but if I had the time to go out and prepare all these dishes without meat I would be a vegetarian. I guess I am just lazy, and it is easier to whip up dishes for the family with meat.
Right now they are lucky to even get their dinner on the table by 8pm!

I would much rather eat my meals without meat, my favourite dish is potato omelette with mushrooms and cheese.
In a few years when my kids I will go back to being vegetarian, but not vegan, I love my cheese and eggs too much!

[Sex Wax]

Oh wait...I am on Meatless Mondays.....the other days i'm still a carnivore.

:thumbup1:

[Maggie]

In this case, once again, not for or against but I'd rather have a steak then salad. But I also enjoy a salad with my steak. I'll probably stop smoking long before I stop eating meat :)

Don't bet on that (typed while rolling a fag)

Maggie :)

[Maggie]

Show me a lesbian, and I guarantee there is still a piece of meat she chews on! :D


That is a disgusting feminist remark, which I would have taken great exception to, if I wasn't laughing so much. :cool:

Maggie

[Maggie]

Not wrong at all :thumbup: There is no right nor wrong in my opinion about what choices people make on their own in deciding what foods to eat or not eat.

I will also note here that the overwhelming majority of respondents to the poll here have shown that vegatarianism is not the prefered way of life.

To each his or her own:thumbup1:

I've been a vegetarian for years. My neurologist told me to stay a vegetarian if I wanted to remain as healthy as possible.

I'm not a vegan, but whilst I do eat eggs, I only eat free range unfertilised eggs, and I don't eat any cheese which a baby cow donated part of it's body to.

I feed my dogs fresh meat. I hate handling it, but dogs are omnivores, scavengers and meat eaters, and I want them to be as healthy and fit as possible. I don't think that I'm a hypocrite. I either feed my dogs a natural diet, and enjoy life with them, or I don't have dogs.

I used to eat meat, but when I chose to give it up, because I believe it's immoral to kill something that isn't trying to kill me, I lost loads of weight. I had more energy than ever before, and a much more varied diet.

The down side, is that until your body gets used to it, you are a walking contributor to global warming.

Maggie :)

[gibbonboy]

In a few years when my kids I will go back to being vegetarian, but not vegan, I love my cheese and eggs too much!

That's our problem too. Cheese is the killer. But I don't need it every single day, so it's not a huge issue.

We're L/O vegetarians now, but were (dietary) vegan for 4 years. My son is in the 98th percentile for height, and has not had any real illness for most of his life. I feel much better, but have not lost much weight or anything. I've found that I learned more cooking techniques, and introduced my family and I to so many more different foods than when we ate a lot of flesh.

Of course, if you are living on vegetables from US supermarkets, you might as well eat a pesticide-soaked napkin every day. We grow 90+ percent of our own veggies, and the rest almost all locally-grown.

[Maggie]

I am not a vegetarian but if I had the time to go out and prepare all these dishes without meat I would be a vegetarian. I guess I am just lazy, and it is easier to whip up dishes for the family with meat.
Right now they are lucky to even get their dinner on the table by 8pm!

I would much rather eat my meals without meat, my favourite dish is potato omelette with mushrooms and cheese.
In a few years when my kids I will go back to being vegetarian, but not vegan, I love my cheese and eggs too much!

I'm the worlds worst cook, and that can be substantiated, so I don't even try.

Most delicatessens will knock you up a pile of ready cooked Veggy or Vegan take out, and 90% of supermarkets sell fresh and frozen Veggie and Vegan stuff.

I adore pasta, and almost anything goes with that.

Maggie
I can't believe I wrote a post about food:eek:

[Maggie]

Good question, first off what is the definition of a vegetarian?

Definitions of a Vegetarian on the Web. (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:Vegetarian&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title)

Oh pushing and encouraging depends on who is doing the pushing or encouraging and who is listening. It's semantics.

Also much depends on what one person considers to be condeming or injustice. For example I have zero problems with people raising and slaughtering beef for my consumption. However I never push anyone into making the same choices I do, even if I believed it to be the right personal choice.

I do not like people telling me that I am wrong for eating meat or wear the hides of animals as being immoral. The choice of vocabulary for vegetarians also bothers me as well;


Scroll down to Definition of "Veganism" on the following link;
Definition of a Vegan (http://www.vnv.org.au/Definitions.htm#Definition%20of%20"Vegetarianism")

If one wants to get totally technical about this, vegetarians are harming, inflicting suffering and are cruel towards all vegetables and plant life as well. Just because a plant doesnt necessarily communicate in the same manner as an animal does not make it a lesser for of life. Humankind depends on nature and many different types of plant life for our own survival. Vegetarians are assisting to kill off that plant life through consumption of plantlife.

Now you can take that last paragraph tongue in cheek but it does make a point in my opinion about the level of caring that vegetarians show towards "intelligent" life.

Have they proven that plants are sentient then?
I thought they'd only just decided that octopus were.

Maggie

[Maggie]

That's our problem too. Cheese is the killer. But I don't need it every single day, so it's not a huge issue.

We're L/O vegetarians now, but were (dietary) vegan for 4 years. My son is in the 98th percentile for height, and has not had any real illness for most of his life. I feel much better, but have not lost much weight or anything. I've found that I learned more cooking techniques, and introduced my family and I to so many more different foods than when we ate a lot of flesh.

Of course, if you are living on vegetables from US supermarkets, you might as well eat a pesticide-soaked napkin every day. We grow 90+ percent of our own veggies, and the rest almost all locally-grown.

You can get cheese suitable for vegans now

Maggie

[Maggie]

I wanted to keep my reply to this separate because I am not sure what exactly you are refering to and what "things in history" that would make a difference in this discussion.

As an aside, there would be over eighty teenagers alive now, who died dreadful deaths due to Bovine Spongiform Encephalitis. They're part of history now.

Maggie

[Maggie]

Wow no vegatarians here at all huh?

Sorry. Wrong :D

Maggie

[Maggie]

I too don't have a grudge against vegetarians. That is as long as they don't push their beliefs on me and look down on me because of my personal preference.

I could never look down on you :)

I'm only five foot three inches tall :D

Maggie

[Maggie]

[QUOTE=TheProsecutor;7690]Uchi, since it looks like I will be the sole person arguing here, eventhough I am a vegan, I will argue from the pure vegetarian or vegan point, which was posted in your second link above.]



Errr. I'm here, running around like a blue arsed fly (it's a Brit saying. You wouldn't understand:D) Tee Hee

Maggie

[Maggie]

Well I hope nobody gets offended by this pic but

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/DougGTR32/peta_rabbits.jpg

I guess its almost the aniti-vegetarian's way of flag burning

It's a bit more like Mooning :ohmy:

Maggie

[Maggie]

I don't know if people who believe that meat production is not cruel have ever seen the process of meat production, from farm to plate. To get a big supply of cheap meat, you need to mass produce. That means overcrowding, force-feeding, use of hormones, anitbiotics, and so on. Animals react to these conditions in similar ways to people...various psychotic behaviors.

People get up in arms very quickly when hearing about dog meat consumption in some Asian countries, horse meat being eaten in France and Japan, wildlife poached for Asian medicine and aphrodisiacs. But they rarely extend that thinking to animals commonly consumed for meat in the West. The pet lobby seems far stronger than the livestock lobby. I guess it's built in to the language, viewing some animals as "stock", as opposed to living creatures.

I think it would be healthier to reduce the proportion of meat in the average Western diet. It is certainly out of balance with what is necessary and healthy. It would also be a more realistic target to aim for than complete vegetarianism.

A week working in a slaughter house, would turn most people into Vegetarians.

Maggie

[Maggie]

humans are not animals. Animals are animals.

Unless you're a piece of grass, you are an animal.

Maggie

[Maggie]

I was wondering what vegans feed their pets. Or if you are a vegan are you not supposed to have pets. Say for instance if I was vegan and I have a cat and I buy him cat food with any kind of meat or meat product in it, is that wrong? Aren't cats basically carnivores? Can cats survive on plant products only?

Being a Vegetarian is my choice.

I feed my dogs what is good for them, and that includes meat (and the skirting board, from what I can hear)

If I didn't, I would be an irresponsible, unethical owner.

It's my choice to own dogs, and my responsibility to keep them healthy, no matter what my eating habits are.

I have a choice, they don't.

Maggie

[Maggie]

wow...still no vegatarians in the forums! Woohoo!

Still wrong! Yippeeeee

Maggie

[gibbonboy]

You can get cheese suitable for vegans now

Maggie

You can get a cheese-like substance, it's awful. Like oily, salty, goo. The vegan sour cream is awesome, though! Forget the brand we use, I prefer it over the dairy version. Also not real keen on soy yogurt, but I can live without it.

[Maggie]

WE all know there is one vegan here though:rolleyes:. However he is too afraid to be in the minority to put his vote in the poll I think.

Another word comes to mind but I digress......http://www.oldetimecooking.com/Images/chicken.jpg



I voted.

Why would someone not.

The argument between people who eat meat, and people who don't is a very emotive one, and always will be.

I'll bet you all my credits that TP votes.

Maggie :D

[Maggie]

You can get a cheese-like substance, it's awful. Like oily, salty, goo. The vegan sour cream is awesome, though! Forget the brand we use, I prefer it over the dairy version. Also not real keen on soy yogurt, but I can live without it.

You can get non dairy yoghurts now, and they're very nice. We have hard cheese here, and it's labelled suitable for Vegans. It's really very nice.

Maggie

[Maggie]

No. But, a shrimp is not a mammal or bird (one of the so-called higher animals). Do shrimp have the capacity for suffering? I don't know. Birds and mammals. Yes.


I'm betting they do.

Lobster, crayfish and sea snails make sounds which they weren't making before they got thrown into boiling water.

Maggie

[dk]

I'm betting they do.

Lobster, crayfish and sea snails make sounds which they weren't making before they got thrown into boiling water.

Maggie
Either way..

They still taste ****in good.:thumbup1:

[dk]

WE all know there is one vegan here though:rolleyes:. However he is too afraid to be in the minority to put his vote in the poll I think.

Another word comes to mind but I digress......http://www.oldetimecooking.com/Images/chicken.jpg
He doesn't vote or give kudos. Cool to him. I wouldn't worry about it. There's a chance he hasn't figured out the controlls yet.

[gibbonboy]

We're certainly not as "strict" as we used to be. I don't eat much flesh, but occaisionally I do now. It has to be locally-raised and clean, i.e. no pesticides, hormones, antibiotics, etc. The ONLY reason I don't eat meat is because of the contamination/disease, and to a lesser extent the fact that meat is a waste of resources to raise. It's never been a moral/ethical issue for me. I grew up on a farm, we raised our own beef and rabbit, and bartered for fresh local pigs and chickens. My grandfather lived to be 99, my grandmother 103, so I don't think the diet did them any real harm. I just won't feed my kid the swill that passes for meat in the grocery stores these days.

[Sex Wax]

You can get non dairy yoghurts now, and they're very nice. We have hard cheese here, and it's labelled suitable for Vegans. It's really very nice.

Maggie

Yogurt makes me gassy.

[Trail]

I'm not a vegetarian. We eat meat (not counting eggs) 5-6 times a week, if not more. We could never give up dairy unless forced to.

[TheNoNamedOne]

He doesn't vote or give kudos. Cool to him. I wouldn't worry about it. There's a chance he hasn't figured out the controlls yet.

Nah... I just take the time to write, "Good point" or "excellent point" that gets certain people bent and flustered. :p

[Maggie]

Or a forum troll. But there are many different kinds of forum trolls and I think we already have one of those :D

Are you referring to me?? :crying:

Maggie

[Maggie]

Either way..

They still taste ****in good.:thumbup1:

Yes they do. Even though I don't eat them, I remember just how nice they are.

Maggie :)

[Maggie]

Yogurt makes me gassy.

LMAO. You're a danger to the Ozone Layer :scared:

Maggie

[Maggie]

I'm not a vegetarian. We eat meat (not counting eggs) 5-6 times a week, if not more. We could never give up dairy unless forced to.

You would never (in our lifetimes), be forced to. Everyone is entitled to a choice :)

Maggie

[Zorro]

You would never (in our lifetimes), be forced to.

Factors beyond our countrol might be having a profound effect on our diets. The price of gas certainly cant go up forever without some big effects on food prices.

[Maggie]

Factors beyond our countrol might be having a profound effect on our diets. The price of gas certainly cant go up forever without some big effects on food prices.

Yes. Soon it'll be drive and starve, or eat and walk.
It's much worse here, and in Europe.:thumbdown:

Maggie

[okisteve]

Factors beyond our countrol might be having a profound effect on our diets. The price of gas certainly cant go up forever without some big effects on food prices.
You don't have to wait, because it happening right now. Go food shopping lately? Flour is up about 20%, I just noticed Philly Cream Cheese 378 -> 500. Scary.

[Maggie]

You don't have to wait, because it happening right now. Go food shopping lately? Flour is up about 20%, I just noticed Philly Cream Cheese 378 -> 500. Scary.

We're expecting a 40% overall rise by the end of the year. I wont need anorexia.

Maggie

[okisteve]

We're expecting a 40% overall rise by the end of the year. I wont need anorexia.

Maggie

Maggie, I just read a review of a new history of Britian in the austerity postwar years (1945-54). The book focused a lot on the diet, which was government-managed in various ways to be minimal and austere, but still nutritious. It also said that people were healthier dUring those years that they are now.....

[Maggie]

Maggie, I just read a review of a new history of Britian in the austerity postwar years (1945-54). The book focused a lot on the diet, which was government-managed in various ways to be minimal and austere, but still nutritious. It also said that people were healthier dUring those years that they are now.....

They certainly worked harder, and pulled together.

I think they still had ration books then, so not eating meat wasn't a choice. I think you were allowed a tiny bit to last you the week. I still remember dripping sandwiches, and pigs trotter as a treat.

I think that the fact that they had to eat less of everything kept them healthier.

There were almost no cars, kids could play in the street, and no one needed to lock their doors :-|


Maggie

[Isaak Brodsky]

Personally I am a meat eater, ...

... i guess that disqualifies me too. like a pissed grizzly, i eat large amounts of salmon.

[Muku]

... i guess that disqualifies me too. like a pissed grizzly, i eat large amounts of salmon.

I love smoked salmon too.....

I will be honest here, I do not eat 1/10 the amount of meat that I used to, mostly because I find myself liking other "flesh" just as much, particularly certain types of fish.

But what I wouldnt give for five or six, 3 inch thick porterhouse steaks.....got a couple hundred bucks for anyone that can fill the order here:grin1:

[gibbonboy]

I love smoked salmon too.....

I will be honest here, I do not eat 1/10 the amount of meat that I used to, mostly because I find myself liking other "flesh" just as much, particularly certain types of fish.

But what I wouldnt give for five or six, 3 inch thick porterhouse steaks.....got a couple hundred bucks for anyone that can fill the order here:grin1:

Fish is meat, at least when it comes to calling yourself a vegetarian. I get from all my relatives, "it's only gravy, there's no real pieces of meat in there!" Like I said though, it's not a moral or ethical choice for me, it's health, so a flavoring or whatever doesn't much matter.

About the steaks, how about for 20 bucks I send you some high-quality poster-sized prints and a napkin dipped in the juice? :rolleyes: Wouldn't want you to clog an artery or anything. I don't think I could eat a whole steak anymore, probably make me sick as a dog. Of course I wouldn't "double eat" like the dog does....

[Muku]

Fish is meat, at least when it comes to calling yourself a vegetarian. I get from all my relatives, "it's only gravy, there's no real pieces of meat in there!" Like I said though, it's not a moral or ethical choice for me, it's health, so a flavoring or whatever doesn't much matter.

About the steaks, how about for 20 bucks I send you some high-quality poster-sized prints and a napkin dipped in the juice? :rolleyes: Wouldn't want you to clog an artery or anything. I don't think I could eat a whole steak anymore, probably make me sick as a dog. Of course I wouldn't "double eat" like the dog does....
Ahh however I never made the claim to be vegetarian here.:D

And I can print my own pictures but thanks for the offer anyway.:thumbup1:

[Maggie]

I love smoked salmon too.....

I will be honest here, I do not eat 1/10 the amount of meat that I used to, mostly because I find myself liking other "flesh" just as much, particularly certain types of fish.

But what I wouldnt give for five or six, 3 inch thick porterhouse steaks.....got a couple hundred bucks for anyone that can fill the order here:grin1:

I never liked red meat, so giving it up was never a problem. But I LOVE smoked salmon.

I always get the urge to wander over to where someone's eating, and dribble all over them.

Maggie

[gibbonboy]

Wish I could really help you out, Muku. We have excellent grass-fed beef here from a local farmer. Sure they'd get ugly at customs- or at least some gov't sandbag would be eating steaks that night!

Used to get steaks from a small local store, old Serbian guy used to hold up his thumb and forefinger, and ask "how much?" you just showed him how thick you wanted, he'd lop them off and wrap 'em up. Lived on steak for the better part of a year.

Kinda in the family, I guess. This is my uncle and cousin:

http://www.bigbuttbbq.com/

Their rub and sauces are great. Thinking of opening a "Big Butt Asia" franchise..

[Isaak Brodsky]

...

But what I wouldnt give for five or six, 3 inch thick porterhouse steaks.....got a couple hundred bucks for anyone that can fill the order here:grin1:

i thought they had porterhouse steaks at sam's, no? or, am i thinkin' of some other cut?

[Muku]

i thought they had porterhouse steaks at sam's, no? or, am i thinkin' of some other cut?

I cant recall Sam's having porterhouses or not, but I am looking for one's I can BBQ at home.

[gibbonboy]

You don't have to wait, because it happening right now. Go food shopping lately? Flour is up about 20%, I just noticed Philly Cream Cheese 378 -> 500. Scary.

Wait.. we just had a truck accident today here on the interstate, it was an entire semi load of Philly cream cheese. If they follow the oil speculation model, cream cheese will be 25 dollars next week. :-|