Divorce w/ Local National Help Please..

[Jrocka83]

3 Years now and the Marriage has spiraled into insanity ever since the honey moon phased away. We got married becuase of our child together. Iv have done everything I can to salvage our marriage, and so has she. We have tried everything. We are just incompatable. She dislikes everything about me, and I dislike everything about her. We are just making eachother misserable. So it is time to face the light and depart are ways, lest a life time of missery and suffering.

Has any one been through the divorce process w/ a Japanese national here in Japan under Millitary guidance? Can you shoot me some advice to best protect my well being? How can we make the process as smooth as possible?

[macker]

Just go to a lawyer off base (look in Okinawa yellow pages) and they will guide you through the process.
If all is amicable, it should be painless enough!!

[DoctorP]

This is why it is advisable to marry then have a child, not the other way around.

Fortunately I have not gone through the process, but wait around, there are a couple of posters here that have. Someone will have an answer for you.

[macker]

DocP...That comment was uncalled for and VERY condescending.....

Not all people have everything planned and mapped out as good as others...

[DJ Tak]

DocP...That comment was uncalled for and VERY condescending.....

Not all people have everything planned and mapped out as good as others...

Did I miss your appointment as "Proper Posting Police" or sumthin?

[thistle]

I am not military but do know a lot about getting divorced in Japan, just have not done the deed yet.
Also used to work in a lawyer's officer here for a while so I do know quite a lot of the ins and outs.
If you want any infor you can pm me, and see if I can help you with your questions.

[z's inmate#2341]

The base legal office should have a list of english speaking local lawyers you can pick from. Divorce is a pretty simple process as long as there are no disagreements about anything. The kid may make it a bit more complex. The lawyer should provide you with a certified translated into english copy of the divorce decree once it is finalized.
You can even divorce a fellow American citizen here as well. Same procedures.

[thistle]

This is why it is advisable to marry then have a child, not the other way around.

Fortunately I have not gone through the process, but wait around, there are a couple of posters here that have. Someone will have an answer for you.

At least the guy gave it a try, which is a helluva lot better than what a lot of servicemen may have done, IMO. No one has statistics, but a good many just disappear from the pregnant mothers life.

[DoctorP]

At least the guy gave it a try, which is a helluva lot better than what a lot of servicemen may have done, IMO. No one has statistics, but a good many just disappear from the pregnant mothers life.

That is true thistle. I do give him credit for that.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

List of English-speaking lawyers from the US Embassy (for the Okinawa region):
http://tokyo.usembassy.gov/e/acs/tacs-nahalawyers.html

I would also recommend Children's Rights Network of Japan for various info that could be of assistance:
http://www.crnjapan.com/en/

[Rossi46]

I got divorced in mainland about 6 years ago, it was a simple process that took about a week getting all the forms together, translated and $300 dollars later it was done. We agreed on everything and never had to hire a lawyer. We showed up to family court and 10 mins later we walked out free. Keep in mind we didn’t have kids. You might have a more lengthy process with children involved. I would take a trip to your spouses city hall to get things rolling as well as your leagal office. Best of luck to you.

[hankypanky]

been there, done that. pm me.

[RenaissanceMan]

EC Law is a great place to start. She is the only American lawyer (offbase) here for 13 years. She deals with this all the time. She also takes frequent flights to the US to track down dead beat military dad's who think the ocean can help them forget about the babies they left in Japan.

[uriel]

At least the guy gave it a try, which is a helluva lot better than what a lot of servicemen may have done, IMO. No one has statistics, but a good many just disappear from the pregnant mothers life.

It goes the other way too. Doesn't take much for a Japanese woman to say the hell with that and walk away and there ain't a damn thing the guy can do. Remember that.

EC Law is a great place to start. She is the only American lawyer (offbase) here for 13 years. She deals with this all the time. She also takes frequent flights to the US to track down dead beat military dad's who think the ocean can help them forget about the babies they left in Japan.

So who helps the guy when the Japanese wife decides she wants to take the kids and walk? At least for the woman, she can come after us. Go ahead, ask what the Japanese take is on child abductions by a parent when that parent is a Japanese national.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

It goes the other way too. Doesn't take much for a Japanese woman to say the hell with that and walk away and there ain't a damn thing the guy can do. Remember that.

So who helps the guy when the Japanese wife decides she wants to take the kids and walk? At least for the woman, she can come after us. Go ahead, ask what the Japanese take is on child abductions by a parent when that parent is a Japanese national.
Yup. Big problem. Lotsa stories out there. Japan *just* decided to sign the Hague Convention on Child Abduction, and may actually get around to it as early as 2010 (you know, the one the US signed back in 1980).

http://familylawinternational.blogspot.com/2008/05/japan-to-sign-parental-abduction-treaty.html

or

http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-asahi/TKY200805100051.html

Know your rights. Every foreign parent in Japan should have access to this resource:
http://www.crnjapan.com/en/

[uriel]

I hope nobody took that the wrong way. I in no way meant to imply that Japanese women are money grubbing, child thievin women. Women like that are international. Every country's got them. I'm just tired of hearing the same old "deadbeat" military dad story. Sometimes people need to open their eyes and try to look at both sides. If she's certifiable, that could be a reason to walk away. What if she says hey, your life's over. Your freedom is gone because you have to give up xxxxxx...? Then what? I wouldn't stick around for that. Child support? Yeah, probably. Unless of course she pulls the I'm not going to let you see your kid because he/she is mine, but I still expect your check? There are 2 (or more) sides to every story. Getting to the truth isn't always as straight forward as he has a dick, he must be guilty.

[Jimmy Hoffa]

So I guess since full custody goes to the mother and there is no visitation rights than how can they enforce child support?

[uriel]

"They" don't. The military does. But, visitation "priveledges" are not always withheld. It is only the vindictive ones that do. And there aint jack you can do. Why? Because even if the courts award you rights, the police won't enforce it because she's the mother. Sucks, but for the moment, there isn't much that will be done.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

They can't. No enforced visitation, no enforced child support.

[uriel]

I'm speaking from what I heard as far as child support. DOn't know firsthand though... thank God.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

As there are no penalties in the law for ignoring court-ordered visitation, nor for non-payment of child support, enforcement is rather problematic...

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

I'm speaking from what I heard as far as child support. DOn't know firsthand though... thank God.
All you have to do is check for yourself.
http://www.crnjapan.com/en/

[thistle]

You want to have a discussion on this Uriel, I'm up for it:)

[Jimmy Hoffa]

"They" don't. The military does. But, visitation "priveledges" are not always withheld. It is only the vindictive ones that do. And there aint jack you can do. Why? Because even if the courts award you rights, the police won't enforce it because she's the mother. Sucks, but for the moment, there isn't much that will be done.

So if the person is not military anymore than they can't enfore anything right? So how will that lawyer "track" down a civillian and they can't be forced to pay?

[thistle]

So if the person is not military anymore than they can't enfore anything right? So how will that lawyer "track" down a civillian and they can't be forced to pay?



No, they don't have to be military to be tracked down. But child support payment can only be enforced once the father has gone back and is living in the States. He can be tracked down with s/s number.
And if he still does not pay up it can be deducted from his salary. In
some cases, if there is a court order.

[Jimmy Hoffa]

No, they don't have to be military to be tracked down. But child support payment can only be enforced once the father has gone back and is living in the States. He can be tracked down with s/s number.
And if he still does not pay up it can be deducted from his salary. In
some cases, if there is a court order.

No there wouldnt. There wouldnt be a court order because Japanese courts do not enforce child support.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Dear god, man! Do you have to work at it to be that thick...?

http://www.crnjapan.com/issues/en/visitation_orders_unenforceable.html

[DoctorP]

It's like he's bringing a knife to a gun fight. Unbelievable!

[thistle]

No there wouldnt. There wouldnt be a court order because Japanese courts do not enforce child support.

Right, Japanese courts don't enforce it.
So they will go through EC Law office, through an american lawyer here in Japan.
However they will have to have money to pay for consultations, and various other fees to track them down.

Sometimes they run out of money, looking for them. Some of them give up trying. A few are lucky.

[Jimmy Hoffa]

Right, Japanese courts don't enforce it.
So they will go through EC Law office, through an american lawyer here in Japan.
However they will have to have money to pay for consultations, and various other fees to track them down.

Sometimes they run out of money, looking for them. Some of them give up trying. A few are lucky.


But there is nothing that lawyer can do. What court will issue the order? How? If they find him they can't make him pay a dime.

[thistle]

Some people don't want to go through and read through pages and pages of links, eel.

Unless it is something that involves them directly.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

No problem This. But, I would expect those very same folk that don't have the time or inclination to read and learn about issues also refrain from commenting on them. That's the least they could do.

[vvloc]

True dat!!!

[TheLastDon]

I'll third that one!

And eel they are good links!

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Domo desu.

[uriel]

You want to have a discussion on this Uriel, I'm up for it:)

What do you mean you are up for it? A no kidding discussion, or what?

[thistle]

What do you mean you are up for it? A no kidding discussion, or what?


What do you mean by a 'no kidding discussion'?

[uriel]

I just don't want it to turn into a "men are evil pigs who like to dump off their poor, pitiful, innocent pregnant wife/girlfriend/neighbor, etc...". Know what I mean?

[uriel]

you know, back and forth. mostly civil. often mildly heated...

[thistle]

Of course, I can keep it mild mannered. I won't start shouting abuse at you because you are a man.

I actually think in a lot of the cases in Okinawa, involving local women and military members, both parties are often to blame.
The women, because they are naieve and believe what the man says and that when he says he wants the baby he is going to marry her and stay with her.
The man is usually at fault because he lies to her from the start, and even though he says he wants to have a baby he suddenly gets cold feet and then runs away.

If the man never said in the first place that he would go along with the pregnancy then the women may have done the right thing and had an abortion.
Instead as it is in a lot of cases, she is left high and dry.

[uriel]

How, though, do you know that is what he said? Because she told you? That's the problem though, it's always your perverbial word against mine. Guess who wins that little battle? Unfortunately, its usually her. How about when a woman tells the guy that hey, she can't get pregnant because of whatever, knowing it's a lie? I don't want to disbelieve anyone off the bat, but you seem, from your post, to be automatically more than a little bit biased against the guy from the start. Although, I may have read it wrong.

[thistle]

How, though, do you know that is what he said? Because she told you? That's the problem though, it's always your perverbial word against mine. Guess who wins that little battle? Unfortunately, its usually her. How about when a woman tells the guy that hey, she can't get pregnant because of whatever, knowing it's a lie? I don't want to disbelieve anyone off the bat, but you seem, from your post, to be automatically more than a little bit biased against the guy from the start. Although, I may have read it wrong.

Of course, no-one really knows whose word is right do we? I am only going by stories that I have heard, (not ficticious one's either).
But put young naieve, japanese girls with some young, not very bright marines and what are you going to get?
And more often than not you are going to end up with a kawaii-half baby who is brought up by grandma.

There are however, in these parts, some girls who think half babies are so cute they may indeed just go ahead and get pregnant, and not really care if the father is going to stick around or not.

[Bones]

As posted by thistle:

There are however, in these parts, some girls who think half babies are so cute they may indeed just go ahead and get pregnant, and not really care if the father is going to stick around or not.

And I would add to that, there are some members over here who have married Okinawan women who have had kids from a prior marriage to Okinawan husbands. Those of us in that category, support those kids even though they are not our own.

It's not a burden, it's a blessing.

Bones

[hankypanky]

No there wouldnt. There wouldnt be a court order because Japanese courts do not enforce child support.

if you work for an american company that reports your ssn for salary reasons, they can deduct funds from your pay. if you get ANY government money they can take some.. Don't worry what you think, listen to what i know. it can and will happen if she has some good sea lawyer friends, or friends of friends. been there done that.

[uriel]

Judging by how many of the "girls" here act, it would seem like there really aren't that many "naive" ones left here. Men have been playing women here pretty hard for years, and I would be remiss to think that women have not learned that turnabout is fair play.

As far as your not very bright bit, who's the brighter bulb? The girl who believes a guy's every word of their undying love, or the guy who says what it takes for him to get in her pants? Don't get me wrong, guys who do that to a girl don't get any support or understanding from me. I personally would prefer a to be with a woman without having to lie to her or trick her. You know the old saying about a woman scorned...

[DoctorP]

if you work for an american company that reports your ssn for salary reasons, they can deduct funds from your pay. if you get ANY government money they can take some.. Don't worry what you think, listen to what i know. it can and will happen if she has some good sea lawyer friends, or friends of friends. been there done that.

Yep...and doesn't matter where you work. Each year you get a refund check (hopefully) well, it will be garnished if there are any types of reports out for you. Then that big check you were hoping for at the end of the year will no longer be there.

Of course then you can just change your withholding status.

[thistle]

Do you think that the 'girls' here act differently from those on mainland?
It is a long time since I have lived up on honshu and cannot tell.

Everyone makes mistakes and will fall for the wrong guy, especially when there is a language barrier. But it is what they decide to do after that mistake, that is the problem.
Sometimes they just make that decision too late. Then there is no turning back.
So do you say that the man should not be held financially responsible in any way. Just get on with his life?

[uriel]

Depends on the situation. If he got screwed (pun intended) into getting involved with a woman who gets vindictive and says you don't have the right, nor will I allow you to see your child, then no, he should not be held responsible. But anything short of that, then yes, he should be held financially responsible. What is your poing with how the "girls" act here versus there? I think they act very similar, to a certain degree. Here, the military is thrown in their face from birth, and the rumors, lies, ways to get things, etc is more out in the open as opposed to up there. Here, it is pretty well known that if an American guy gets you pregnant, the military will basically force him to pay. Whereas if a Japanese guy does it to a Japanese girl, who's gonna force him to pay? The courts? Laughable at best. I did not, however, say anywhere in my post that the man should not be held responsible. What I am saying, and will forever say, is that the courts, the police, etc, need to stop immediately assuming the man is at fault and look at BOTH sides. Last I checked, if she didn't lie down, she probably wouldn't be pregnant. Unless she's the Virgin Yuko. And if he wasn't there, it wouldn't have been him to get her prenant.

[RenaissanceMan]

It goes the other way too. Doesn't take much for a Japanese woman to say the hell with that and walk away and there ain't a damn thing the guy can do. Remember that.



So who helps the guy when the Japanese wife decides she wants to take the kids and walk? At least for the woman, she can come after us. Go ahead, ask what the Japanese take is on child abductions by a parent when that parent is a Japanese national.

I know a few people whose wives took their kids and went and hid in a friend's house, or on mainland somewhere and told them they will never see their kids anymore. Matter of fact, I got a good buddy that got divorced up on mainland and has not been able to track his ex down for years and years. EC can definitely find ANY American, through military or through computer "forensic" linking any emails, chat rooms, anything listed with your name and they will find you faster than fast. For the Japanese wives who run off, I will have to ask her about that. I talk to her all the time, so hopefully I will get back to you on this one soon. Probably in the next few weeks, cause she is at a Child Support Conference in the US...irony I know.

[thistle]

[QUOTE=uriel;134900]It goes the other way too. Doesn't take much for a Japanese woman to say the hell with that and walk away and there ain't a damn thing the guy can do. Remember that.

Yes, you are right here. I did not see this post.
Foreign men in Japan get a rough deal. Unless the divorce is amicable and
the parents agree on visitation rights verbally, most likely the father will never see the child again.
For foreign women, it is not quite as bad, as long as they have a job which can support them and the child/ren then they will more than likely get custody.

As to what Renaissance Man wrote about EC office, they will only look and track down the american father once they have gone back to the States. Knowing where they are in Japan is useless, because they cannot ask for child support while they are still residing in Japan.

[uriel]

so stay in japan? sorry, i'm not at top form. lik e oi said in the crocs thread, i'm only 2 sheets to the wind at the moment. to be continued... when i get back into my head...

[uriel]

[QUOTE=uriel;134900]It goes the other way too. Doesn't take much for a Japanese woman to say the hell with that and walk away and there ain't a damn thing the guy can do. Remember that.

Yes, you are right here. I did not see this post.
Foreign men in Japan get a rough deal. Unless the divorce is amicable and
the parents agree on visitation rights verbally, most likely the father will never see the child again.
For foreign women, it is not quite as bad, as long as they have a job which can support them and the child/ren then they will more than likely get custody.

As to what Renaissance Man wrote about EC office, they will only look and track down the american father once they have gone back to the States. Knowing where they are in Japan is useless, because they cannot ask for child support while they are still residing in Japan.

First, what's the EC office? Second, that would suck hardcore, the wofe walking away and taking everything with her... i'll just stay out of theat situation if at all possible. if not... life will suck i guess.

[thistle]

[QUOTE=thistle;135156]

First, what's the EC office? Second, that would suck hardcore, the wofe walking away and taking everything with her... i'll just stay out of theat situation if at all possible. if not... life will suck i guess.


The EC Law office. American civilian lawyer here in Okinawa. She has been here many years and became well known among the Okinawan community for her great efforts to help women with child support from american father's at very little cost to them.

[uriel]

good thing I don't plan on running off. but if I did, not even EC gonna find me. why? because the US is one country. i could make do in any other one, if I was the type to run. which I'm not. i've grown kinda attached to my munchkin!

[RenaissanceMan]

[QUOTE=uriel;134900]It goes the other way too. Doesn't take much for a Japanese woman to say the hell with that and walk away and there ain't a damn thing the guy can do. Remember that.

Yes, you are right here. I did not see this post.
Foreign men in Japan get a rough deal. Unless the divorce is amicable and
the parents agree on visitation rights verbally, most likely the father will never see the child again.
For foreign women, it is not quite as bad, as long as they have a job which can support them and the child/ren then they will more than likely get custody.

As to what Renaissance Man wrote about EC office, they will only look and track down the american father once they have gone back to the States. Knowing where they are in Japan is useless, because they cannot ask for child support while they are still residing in Japan.

I am not sure all the details about it, since I have not be in this situation. But I wonder why that is, I will have to ask her about that. I would think that tracking them down here on in Japan is the same thing. Their money is coming out of an American bank account.. I don't know, will have to ask. Thanks for the info though.

[socalheart]

EC Law is a good place to go, if you can afford it. We've known her for many years on a professional level. Our family lawyer uses her offices sometimes even when he visits here.

I only know of one difficult divorce here that ended in the father's favor. The mother was a known "soapland girl" and drug user who let her boyfriend abuse her child. So, good luck with that.

[RenaissanceMan]

good thing I don't plan on running off. but if I did, not even EC gonna find me. why? because the US is one country. i could make do in any other one, if I was the type to run. which I'm not. I've grown kinda attached to my munchkin!

Well, if you were running you would have to be a computer genius not to get caught, or you would NEVER be able to do anything. Computer forensics, the wave of the future...

It really just depends on how much money the person is willing to spend to find someone, or.... depends on who you know. I remember when I was back at Ft. Hood, I had a great friend whose wife was cheating on him. He knew but could not find that guy, then after a while he found out the guys name and then he went to his "computer friends" and brought up everything on the guy WITH JUST HIS NAME. Bank accounts, emails, and everything he ever did in his whole life. So he tracked him down and everything turned out....great....in...the...end.

In today's world almost every machine is trackable, and there is really nothing you can do about it. The only thing keeping any of us from having our identity stolen is that maybe we are not as important as we think we are. ....Locks are made to keep honest people honest.....but they don't stop a determine crook, or someone trying to track you down. I could go on and on, but I think you have the gist of what I am trying to say.