Vegaterian/saving money [Archive]

TheNoNamedOne

08-01-2007, 04:06 PM

Hi Temp. Thanks for thinking about me outside of the virtual world here. Glad to know I am in your thoughts at times, or that things trigger you to think about me.

Btw, great article you have linked to there. I recommend others to read it in full.

From the article:
...many people suspect that a vegetarian diet is more expensive than one that includes meat.

But that's generally not true. And though it's difficult to tally the savings of illnesses or diseases avoided with a plant-based diet, the financial worth of good health is unquestionable.

Vegetarianism could extend your life by several years, as well as lower your risk of heart disease, cancer and dementia. It's better for the planet, reducing water usage and global-warming gases.

Tempestuous

08-01-2007, 04:12 PM

Hi Temp. Thanks for thinking about me outside of the virtual world here. Glad to know I am in your thoughts at times, or that things trigger you to think about me.

Alright, don't let it go to your head! :)

I didn't have to post it, but I thought you would like it, and I did it to be nice to you. Cause I am on occasion one of those nice/caring type of people. :D

TheNoNamedOne

08-01-2007, 04:19 PM

lol. Well, honestly, I do appreciate you posting that. Excellent story.

What points in the story surprised you that you may have not been aware of before?

Tempestuous

08-01-2007, 04:23 PM

Well I actually plan on keeping it in a file. I have facilitated health classes and the number one complaint about eating healthy is cost. I think it would be beneficial to have something this to help back up what I'm saying

Tempestuous

08-01-2007, 04:24 PM

Vegetables & fruits cost, but in the long run they are so much more cost efficient for your health & weight!

TheNoNamedOne

08-01-2007, 04:27 PM

Has the article made you consider going vegetarian, or at least consider reducing your meat intake?

Tempestuous

08-01-2007, 04:29 PM

Ummm, not really. We have more than enough money to support our eating habits.
And I actually have one kid that has MAJOR health related & functioning issues if he does not eat animal protein in high enough quantities.

TheNoNamedOne

08-01-2007, 04:40 PM

And I actually have one kid that has MAJOR health related & functioning issues if he does not eat animal protein in high enough quantities.

Interesting. I have never seen this type of condition addressed in any medical journals or research. I would think that if it existed, there would be some papers on it.

I have seen allergy issues with kinds of vegetables or fruit, but never nothing in the way of "animal protein" being needed. Protein is protein. Just as vitamin C is Vitamin C.

Perhaps it is just a psychological dependence on it that causes some physical manifestations.

Tempestuous

08-01-2007, 04:55 PM

He has had his body chemistry assessed by an alternative specialist in the human chemistry.
Even before that the base specialists had us doing a food diary to help pinpoint the cause of his "episodes" the only common denominator was lack of animal protein. They told me to ensure he eats X amt of servings of meat a day.
Then we had the alternative assesment done and they too confirmed he needed X amt of protein with each meal.

Now we have tried plant protein such as nuts and beans but the issues still arise.
There is a component (mineral combination? nutrient combination?) that he does not get from the plant proteins.

So we stick with what works.

TheNoNamedOne

08-01-2007, 05:01 PM

DoctorP

08-01-2007, 05:03 PM

They told me to ensure he eats X amt of servings of meat a day.

That is all the justification I need...I'm off to buy more meat!

Tempestuous

08-01-2007, 05:11 PM

That is all the justification I need...I'm off to buy more meat!

Glad I could be of help to ya!

Boost

08-03-2007, 07:10 AM

Probably iron or Vitamin B12.

Still interesting. If you ever find a study on it please post it, because I haven't read anywhere that some protein is different from other protein. Protein is just protein no matter where it comes from.

Something else was just lacking.

We do not need a study to verify the existence of this condition, whatever it is. Simple observation on our part has been evidence enough that it does exist. Whatever it is that he is lacking be it from protein or something else, it is contained in meat. We have varied his diet in a number of ways, and it was always when meat was removed that the symptoms he displayed became present. We would then return the meat to his diet and the symptoms would go away.

TheNoNamedOne

08-03-2007, 12:37 PM

Boost, you mean you and Temp and the family actually DID go vegetarian?

I am not saying you need a study, but because I have not seen anything like you guys are saying reported on before with a formal study, and since I don't really have access to your personal lives and things are just testimoney, and since what you guys are saying seems to not go with the fact that a vegetarian diet can indeed meat all our nutritional and dietary needs, it is I who needs the study or some research to give credence to your claim.

For those who never do try a planned vegetarian diet and insist on meat is a must for them or family member, I often wonder if the medical excuse is more of a convenient magic wand to wave when asked why they don't become vegetarians?

Boost

08-03-2007, 12:56 PM

it is I who needs the study or some research to give credence to your claim.

Your credence to our claim is unneeded.

I often wonder if the medical excuse is more of a convenient magic wand to wave when asked why they don't become vegetarians?

No need for a magical wand, the answer to the question is because I do not have the desire to become one.

TheNoNamedOne

08-03-2007, 01:00 PM

No need for a magical wand, the answer to the question is because I do not have the desire to become one.

Fair enough, Boost.

So, if you could confirm, you and your family actually never did become vegetarians on a well planned vegetarian diet, right?

Boost

08-03-2007, 01:17 PM

So, if you could confirm

For what cause or purpose? Surely not yours.

TheNoNamedOne

08-03-2007, 01:20 PM

For what cause or purpose? Surely not yours.

That point is irrelevant. Just want you to clear up some confusion. Sounded like from what Temp said that you guys had removed meat products from your diet at one time, and that made me think you had tried vegetarianism and hence your son did not do well on that. However, from later posts it sounds like that you did in fact never tried vegetarianism -- regardless of cause or purpose. Right?

08-03-2007, 01:21 PM

We would then return the meat to his diet and the symptoms would go away.
Maybe it's a psychological thing and he just REALLY loves meat! I know I'd fake a sickness if my wife tried to put me on a strictly vegetarian diet! Shoot, I'd probably fake a near death experience!

Boost

08-03-2007, 01:22 PM

What the family's diet was is irrelevant to the diet we placed him on. The post you are referring to stated we changed his diet.

TheNoNamedOne

08-03-2007, 01:23 PM

Maybe it's a psychological thing and he just REALLY loves meat! I know I'd fake a sickness if my wife tried to put me on a strictly vegetarian diet!

Exactly, dk! And I suggested that in an earlier post in this thread.

TheNoNamedOne

08-03-2007, 01:25 PM

What the family's diet was is irrelevant to the diet we placed him on. The post you are referring to stated we changed his diet.

Ok, but did you change HIS diet to a planned vegetarian diet?

btw, why would you just change his diet and not the whole family's? This makes me presume that he was having diet/health problems before you had even tinkered with it.

Boost

08-03-2007, 01:26 PM

Maybe it's a psychological thing and he just REALLY loves meat! I know I'd fake a sickness if my wife tried to put me on a strictly vegetarian diet! Shoot, I'd probably fake a near death experience!

If that is the case, then that is pretty good for a 3-4 year old as he was when we noticed something odd. Really good if you consider he fooled professional doctors and nutritionists as well.

08-03-2007, 01:28 PM

If that is the case, then that is pretty good for a 3-4 year old as he was when we noticed something odd. Really good if you consider he fooled professional doctors and nutritionists as well.
That's impressive. :first:

Tempestuous

08-03-2007, 01:29 PM

That's impressive. :first:

You aren't kidding! When you can change your blood composition to fit your desires....that's pretty cool!
:)

08-03-2007, 01:31 PM

You aren't kidding! When you can change your blood composition to fit your desires....that's pretty cool!
:)
I need to get your kid's number! Which side did he learn his tricks from? You, or Boost? Who's the sneaky one?!

Boost

08-03-2007, 01:31 PM

Ok, but did you change HIS diet to a planned vegetarian diet?

With the aid of his doctor and nutritionist.

btw, why would you just change his diet and not the whole family's?

It is easier to change one person's diet when you are evaluating the issue then the whole familys. It was trial periods to isolate if it was the food causing the conditions.

This makes me presume that he was having diet/health problems before you had even tinkered with it.

Would we have tinkered with his diet if we weren't under the assumption something was off?

Boost

08-03-2007, 01:32 PM

I need to get your kid's number!

LoL-now that you are bringing that up, if he is capable of doing that at that age, I am really concerned with what he will be able to do in his teen years! :scared:

08-03-2007, 01:33 PM

LoL-now that you are bringing that up, if he is capable of doing that at that age, I am really concerned with what he will be able to do in his teen years! :scared:
Has he started bending spoons with his mind yet?

Tempestuous

08-03-2007, 01:33 PM

LoL-now that you are bringing that up, if he is capable of doing that at that age, I am really concerned with what he will be able to do in his teen years! :scared:

:ohmy: CRAP!!! Now I am scared!!! :crying: Only a few more years!!! :scared:

08-03-2007, 01:34 PM

It is easier to change one person's diet when you are evaluating the issue then the whole familys. It was trial periods to isolate if it was the food causing the conditions.
This is what I figured. Why change the whole family to a vegetarian diet when you're just running a few tests on one person? When I had a bladder infection as a kid, my whole family didn't have to take the treatment!

Boost

08-03-2007, 01:36 PM

This is what I figured. Why change the whole family to a vegetarian diet when you're just running a few tests on one person? When I had a bladder infection as a kid, my whole family didn't have to take the treatment!

I'm sure they were really happy about that!!! Man, if everybody had to change every time something was wrong with one person...we might have a mutiny on our hands! :eek:

Tempestuous

08-03-2007, 01:37 PM

LOL...pictures of trying to get the whole family to drink pure cranberry w/o additives just to treat dk's bladder infection. :)

TheNoNamedOne

08-03-2007, 06:49 PM

TheProsecutor:
Ok, but did you change HIS diet to a planned vegetarian diet?

With the aid of his doctor and nutritionist.

Interesting. On a vegetarian diet, getting all the protein he needs (surely you prepared his meals so he got enough protein), and something was still lacking? I think you may have had a poor doctor and nutritionist. Can't say for sure, though, as I have no access to or confirm what you say you did.

TheProsecutor:
btw, why would you just change his diet and not the whole family's?

It is easier to change one person's diet when you are evaluating the issue then the whole familys. It was trial periods to isolate if it was the food causing the conditions.

You mean he was like a test guinea pig before the whole family was going to change over?

What I am asking you is, what made you and your doctors decide to put him on a vegetarian diet? Obviously he was experiencing some kind of medical or health issue problem, right? What was it?

Would we have tinkered with his diet if we weren't under the assumption something was off?

I don't know. Sounded like you were using him as a test, and your family was the control group before everyone was to switch over (perhaps I am reading it wrong -- but to me that is what it sounds like. Sorry if I am wrong.). What was the specific problem he was experiencing? I am wondering how cutting out meat exacerbated that or caused something else?

Tempestuous

08-03-2007, 07:17 PM

Yes you are wrong.
There were functional issues that arose. There was not a medical disease for what was taking place (checked, checked and rechecked, and doctors could see there was an issue, but were not seeing a disease that was CAUSE for the issue)
So off we go to document everything- blood pressure, body temp, sleep info, bowel movement assessments, urine assessments, blood assessments, food diary, food assessments, dairy of daily routines, etc, etc, etc
While adjusting, adjusting and readjusting what we were feeding him as the process proceeded along.

Long story short- Time passes after reviewing the information doctors & nutritionist both say separately they want him to eat and closely follow the food recommendations for children his age according to the ADA's food pyramid- including consuming meats, eggs & dairy.

We were actually given a food guidance recommendation for him including how often to eat, snack choices to choose from with animal bi-products included.
And wow! Imagine that, we followed those recommendations closely and he functionally improved.

We even followed up with a biochemist who specializes in body chemistry (more alternative practice) and their recommendations were the same. Ensure his diet is balanced including animal bi-products regularly. Electrolytes daily in *gasp* cow's milk. Independently administered minerals that are lacking from the bodies absorption, as well as vitamins that may be needed.

Boost

08-04-2007, 01:49 AM

I think you may have had a poor doctor and nutritionist. Can't say for sure, though, as I have no access to or confirm what you say you did.

That is possible TP, but then again, the recommendations they gave have worked. So I am disinclined to say they are poor at thier job.

You mean he was like a test guinea pig before the whole family was going to change over?

No, the tests of changing his diet was in an effort to see if what he was consuming was actually affecting his functionality. We did not initiate this to see if the whole family should change to this or that diet.