Futenma (this isn't new... but it is to me)

[quietasariot]

I moved here about a year and a half ago after having lived here as a kid for almost five years. My husband had the choice of a new duty station, and, since he didn't want to be gone again to Iraq right away after returning, he requested we come to Okinawa.

I moved here thinking we were liked... I had no clue of just what reputation the military had for themselves, here. I was just a kid last time I was here (1992) and I'm sure things have changed drastically even since then.

I heard things about Kadena being loud, and then Futenma. One day, I was at Urasoe Park with a friend, her son, and my daughter. We were just walking around, putting the kids on the slides, etc. and suddenly this loud, booming noise was looming over us. Well, what do ya know, THAT is what all of the talk is about. THAT is the reason Okinawans really want us gone. It scared the daylights out of my daughter, so I can only imagine living that close to the base, under the flight path.

We (my husband and I) would love to spend the rest of our lives here. This is home for the both of us... but we both know that staying here forever isn't an option, at least not while he's in the Marine Corps. Are we the only ones? We meet so many people that say, "Yeah, it's great, but I want to go back to the USA".

To me, despite all the changes since living here in my younger years, Okinawa is still beautiful. Okinawa still has the nicest people, the most amazing culture, and it's always going to be home for me.

[dk]

Okinawa is an all-around decent place to live.

I feel ya about the loud airplanes though. The office I'm at 5 days a week is pretty rediculous. We're RIGHT under the takeoff/landing path of Kadena Air Base and it gets LOUD. Not just loud, LOUD. If you're outside trying to have a conversation, you pretty much have to stop for a minute or two and just wait for the steam of jets to finish taking off / landing.

There's NO WAY it'd be possible to live near where I work and keep the doors and windows open all day. That'd just drive me up the wall. It's bad enough anytime I go outside.

[Tempestuous]

Question for one of you knowledgeable folks, does atmospheric pressure, altitude of the location, spaciousness of the area make a difference on the sound? More or less buildings?

We spent 6yrs listening to the jets & heavy planes take off over there. I remember sitting at the park quite a distance from the flight line having to stop the conversation and cover kids ears for protection it was so loud.

Where we are now we actually live on one of the landing paths in a little valley actually below the base, you see the planes EVERY day, yet the noise factor is GREATLY decreased from Oki.
Our kids' school is on the direct end of the landing strip (directly across from it, only our little valley separates the bases ridge from the schools ridge) and they hear the planes and only occasionally is it loud enough to draw their attention. The school is likely closer to the line than the park in Oki I previously mentioned.

Just last night at the field of the school a jet flew over and only 4 out of the group of 50 parents even noticed it.
Occasionally people here complain as they can't hear on the phone as one goes by but seriously it pales in comparison to the noise on Oki.
What makes the difference?

[newvalor]

air density does play a factor in noise, being if the air is thicker with humidity it will disperse sound over a larger area. when air is thinner it has to travel further and less broader to disperse, that's why it is louder. elevation can also play a part, with different angles that the noise comes from and disperses. there's been times where I've been at the end of the runway at work and it's almost like nothing is going on with the door shut, but then the other days where I wear my earcovers from the noise.

it's something I've gotten used to. this place is not even close to what it's like in korea where the runway is practically next to do the dorms.

[DoctorP]

I live in Kadena's flight path, and even after having the "sound proof" construction done on my home, I can't hear the TV when they fly over with all the doors and windows closed. Much worse than when I lived at Cherry Point...but not as bad as San Diego's airport.

[Honduh]

Let me get this right, your in the military, and complaining about the jets. :w00t::rolleyes: Quite histarrical if you ask me.

Tell your kids to get over it. Bet they get pissed when a 7 ton goes screaming by too.

And those people who wanna go back to the USA, are also the same people who live life on base, and who dont even know that such place called urose is in existence. Those are the people who cant wait to hit up a walmart. Those are the people who get pissed when they go to McDonalds and can't understand what the Okinawan behind the counter is saying. Get where i'm going with this...

As for the 'Okinawans' who hate us here, 99% of those 'Okinawans' are mainlanders who are paid to come down here to protest. ;) True, some dont want us here, thats a fact of life...but for the most part, they dont mind us...

[P_chan]

LOL tell your 3 or 4 year old to get over it? I'd be surprised if you have kids.

I'm in the military and I hate the freaking jets. Just because I'm in the military doesn't mean I have to love it. I can see where the okinawan's are coming from. I would be annoyed if I had to hear that day in and day out for my entire life.

[DougP]

Not to side step on this thread but I'm sure you would love the sound of those jets if your life depended on them :)

[Honduh]

LOL tell your 3 or 4 year old to get over it? I'd be surprised if you have kids.

I'm in the military and I hate the freaking jets. Just because I'm in the military doesn't mean I have to love it. I can see where the okinawan's are coming from. I would be annoyed if I had to hear that day in and day out for my entire life.



... go cry with the 4yo.

[quietasariot]

I'm not in the military, but thanks for assuming :) I'm not complaining about the jets either - I grew up in San Diego, so, right near MCAS Miramar (back when it was NAS) and the airport. I'm very much used to the noise, but I can only imagine how people who ARE NOT used to it feel. The noise is LOUD.

And actually, my daughter (don't know where you go the plural from, I only have one.) finds military vehicles fascinating because they're so huge (I'm guessing, she's only 2, but she thinks they're neat).

Honduh, you WIN at being the most rude person I've encountered here! You certainly rock at making assumptions about people you don't even know, too!

Why don't you go cry in a class that teaches proper grammar and spelling?

[Honduh]

Your husband is military, correct? Sorta sad to see that you are your husbands partner, but don't consider yourself military....

How are people here not used to the noise? The shits been here since the 60's ...and in case you haven't been informed, the helo's and the MC c130's are the only thing going away...which are the quietest of the bunch...

[Asshat]

Your husband is military, correct? Sorta sad to see that you are your husbands partner, but don't consider yourself military....

How are people here not used to the noise? The shits been here since the 60's ...and in case you haven't been informed, the helo's and the MC c130's are the only thing going away...which are the quietest of the bunch...

KC-130's. And they're going to Itami...or Iwakuni depending on which plan and the lunar phase.

The Futenma "issue" is laughable. I hope I am still here so I can watch the Japanese conglomerates eat that land up too. If I recall, the last big plan for that valuable land was yet another Free Trade zone! In reality though, it will be more rental housing, a Jusco, a few pachinko places- maybe an izakaya or two....but it certainly will not benefit Okinawans who are once again (and forever) used as pawns in the larger game of real estate aquisition by the Japanese buisness/government.

[CGoki]

Actually I already have planned out a MEGA-StarJus-A theme park for the area. I've got several investors lined up and we are just waiting. What's the theme, about 10 Starbucks, 3 Juscos and 2 San-As all in that area. We are going to make a killing and provide substantial minimum wage jobs to the masses.

[N3philum]

Why don't you go cry in a class that teaches proper grammar and spelling?

http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/mfl/lowres/mfln130l.jpg

[quietasariot]

What, I can't spell or use proper grammar? When have I not?

And yes, I don't consider myself "military". I didn't sign a contract, I don't wear the uniform, I don't wear my husband's rank on my sleeve. I'm the wife of a Marine, and my husband's well aware of how I feel about it, and he's fine with it. :P

[N3philum]

I will fix it for you. :)



I'm not in the military but thanks for assuming. :) I'm not complaining about the jets either. I grew up in San Diego right near MCAS Miramar (back when it was NAS) and the airport. I'm very much used to the noise but I can only imagine how people who ARE NOT used to it feel. The noise is LOUD.

And actually my daughter (don't know where you got the plural from, I only have one.) finds military vehicles fascinating because they're so huge (I'm guessing, she's only 2, but she thinks they're neat).

Honduh, you WIN at being the most rude person I've encountered here! You certainly rock at making assumptions about people you don't even know! Why don't you go cry in a class that teaches proper grammar and spelling?

[TheNoNamedOne]

It is really not good form on forums to point out that spelling and grammar errors appear from time to time. Sure, perfect writing and perfect formatting is appreciated, but so long as one is not blatant in erros consistently (e.g. refusing to upper case words, or paragraphing), then it should be overlooked.

I suggest that we do so and get back on topic.

[quietasariot]

That was a typo, not a spelling error. :)

Thank you for pointing out the grammar errors. I don't see what is wrong with the comma before the too but I probably am wrong with that one.

NOW am I missing a comma? :D

[TheNoNamedOne]

How are people here not used to the noise? The shits been here since the 60's ...and in case you haven't been informed, the helo's and the MC c130's are the only thing going away...which are the quietest of the bunch...

Aircraft from futenma fly directly over us all the time and after living here for more than a few years, I am still not used to it. But, forgetting about me, my neighbors who have lived here all their lives, too, are not used to it. When we may be outside talking to one another and a jet screeches overhead, their whole face grimaces and cringes. If they were used to it, there would be no reaction on their face.

Basically your argument is appeal to tradition. That is a fallacy.

[Asshat]

after living here for more than a few years, I am still not used to it.

Try living at the end of KAB. Drives me frikking crazy. So what do you think the traffic will be like in Futenma and Ojana when MCAS becomes the next great "American Village" or whatever money-making scheme is planned?

[ProtoEVO]

The Futenma topic is hot because it draws the most public sympathy. The fact that it is an active airfield in the middle of a town is a problem. Is it a huge problem? Ask San Diego. The flight line goes right through downtown. First time visitors freak out because the skyscrapers are right outside the window. Point is it can be managed.
Many people want Futenma to move. The politicians are holding it up for their own personal gain. It is not about the citizens or the Dugong or any other thing. The politicians are trying to prove to their constituents that they have the power to stop the US Military.

[TheNoNamedOne]

So what do you think the traffic will be like in Futenma and Ojana when MCAS becomes the next great "American Village" or whatever money-making scheme is planned?

It will suck. I don't look forward to it. But, if I had to choose between that and the situation now, I would probably choose the former.

Hopefully, some city planners take a long term view and would see how eventually everything from Okinawa City to Naha is going to be Hongkongized with huge office and apartment buildings. With that in mind, a tranquil pool of green like Manhatten's Central Park would do good for the spirit of city dwellers. Could also help with the heat island affect that large swaths of concrete cause.

People just do not have the time to drive up north for an injection of green. We need to reserve some spots within the city landscape that are large enough to walk in and not see the concrete. Futenma could be that spot if some look to Central Park as an example -- and no New Yorker would want to see that nonproductive green used in any other way than what it is being used for now -- a place to refresh.

[thistle]

Are N3philum, CGoki and Honduh the same person? Seems like it to me:confused:

The traffic will ease up at Futenma/Ojana once the base has gone, because people will then be able to drive straight to the city office without having to take a detour all the way around the base to get there, because presumably they will build some new roads where the base was.
No doubt it will take another 20years to start developing the land anyway once it has gone.

[CGoki]

Are N3philum, CGoki and Honduh the same person? Seems like it to me:confused:

The traffic will ease up at Futenma/Ojana once the base has gone, because people will then be able to drive straight to the city office without having to take a detour all the way around the base to get there, because presumably they will build some new roads where the base was.
No doubt it will take another 20years to start developing the land anyway once it has gone.

Seems like it, how so, because we all have the same avatar? Do you even read the posts? We have different ways of speaking (typing). And you forgot DougP, he too has the same avatar.

[ProtoEVO]

Hopefully, some city planners take a long term view and would see how eventually everything from Okinawa City to Naha is going to be Hongkongized with huge office and apartment buildings. With that in mind, a tranquil pool of green like Manhatten's Central Park would do good for the spirit of city dwellers. Could also help with the heat island affect that large swaths of concrete cause.



The city planners took a long 20+ year look at Makiminato. That worked out well :thumbdown:.

[CGoki]

Well that old housing area does only have a handful of pachinko parlors in it and another super San-A to compete with the others around the island now. And a museum that I haven't yet gone to, is it even open?

[TheNoNamedOne]

The city planners took a long 20+ year look at Makiminato. That worked out well :thumbdown:.

I didn't say look at it for a long time or 20+ years. I said take a "long term view" of how the land would/could best be used (paraphrased).

[ProtoEVO]

I didn't say look at it for a long time or 20+ years. I said take a "long term view" of how the land would/could best be used (paraphrased).

I know what you said. My point it is it won't matter how long they look at it.
If they stay true to form, it will be a mess.

[Asshat]

The traffic will ease up at Futenma/Ojana once the base has gone, because people will then be able to drive straight to the city office without having to take a detour all the way around the base to get there, because presumably they will build some new roads where the base was.

Past performance doesn't indicate that at all. At any rate, the traffic will increase through Futenma (town) and Ojana if that thruway comes to pass. Those areas, already heavily constructed in the past 15 years are not able to deal with more traffic.

Not to worry however. The Japanese tour companies who will build retirement mansions there wont let you and I in there anyway. ;)

[thistle]

Seems like it, how so, because we all have the same avatar? Do you even read the posts? We have different ways of speaking (typing). And you forgot DougP, he too has the same avatar.


Ok, my apologies, I only read your posts in this thread and they came across as similiar(god, that spelling just doesn't look right today:))
Why do you all choose the same avator then, it is pretty confusing!

[CGoki]

Ok, my apologies, I only read your posts in this thread and they came across as similiar(god, that spelling just doesn't look right today:))
Why do you all choose the same avator then, it is pretty confusing!

Must you ask why, you already answered yourself. :thumbup: And apology not really needed, but I'm not a Hoosier nor am I from, damn N3crophiliac where are you from again? Pardon me if I came across too harsh asking if you even read the posts. :w00t:

[TheNoNamedOne]

Why do you all choose the same avator then, it is pretty confusing!

I would assume they have very similar taste in humour and a penchant for double word meanings/puns.

Kuri (nut) to (and) risu (squirel)

Nut and squirel.

Clitoris

[Asshat]

Why do you all choose the same avator then, it is pretty confusing!

Hey Thistle, what do you mean they have the same avtar?

hahaha!

[thistle]

My name should suggest where I came from:D

[silviasichigo]

I would assume they have very similar taste in humour and a penchant for double word meanings/puns.

Kuri (nut) to (and) risu (squirel)

Nut and squirel.

Clitoris

Exactly Right :first:

[Asshat]

My name should suggest where I came from:D

Arizona? Oh...that's "Cactus."

I'm confused on the whole double entendre thing with clitoris. Maybe I just can't get passed the visuals...typical guy.

[thistle]

[QUOTE=uminchu;11056]Arizona? Oh...that's "Cactus."

Guess you guys just don't know where your plants come from!!

How did you do that Uminchu,?:go find your own dog:rolleyes:

[CGoki]

I would assume they have very similar taste in humour and a penchant for double word meanings/puns.

Kuri (nut) to (and) risu (squirel)

Nut and squirel.

Clitoris

Y'all have some dirty minds, the picture is what you wrote out, I didn't even realize the 2nd meaning. :eek:

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: yeah my nose just grew some

[Honduh]

What, I can't spell or use proper grammar? When have I not?

And yes, I don't consider myself "military". I didn't sign a contract, I don't wear the uniform, I don't wear my husband's rank on my sleeve. I'm the wife of a Marine, and my husband's well aware of how I feel about it, and he's fine with it. :P

eh, you know my opinion.


Aircraft from futenma fly directly over us all the time and after living here for more than a few years, I am still not used to it. But, forgetting about me, my neighbors who have lived here all their lives, too, are not used to it. When we may be outside talking to one another and a jet screeches overhead, their whole face grimaces and cringes. If they were used to it, there would be no reaction on their face.

Basically your argument is appeal to tradition. That is a fallacy.

A flight line in the middle of a town isn't anything uncommon, neither is a plane wreck. Yes, I understand they are upset because of it....but ohh well, I guess they get there way. We will throw in the towel and leave.

I'm not gonna say "if you don't like it, leave" but what I will say, its just the way it is. :thumbup1:

[ProtoEVO]

[QUOTE=uminchu;11056]Arizona? Oh...that's "Cactus."

Guess you guys just don't know where your plants come from!!

How did you do that Uminchu,?:go find your own dog:rolleyes:

I would have to go with http://farm.tucows.com/2004/11/angry_scotsmen.jpg
Scotland

[Asshat]

go find your own dog:rolleyes:

It died. :( Can I have Pokey? Is cactus a plant?

[DoctorP]

Y'all have some dirty minds, the picture is what you wrote out, I didn't even realize the 2nd meaning. :eek:

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: yeah my nose just grew some

Everyone is doing better than me...I just figured you were all F'in nuts! :w00t:

[thistle]

It died. :( Can I have Pokey? Is cactus a plant?


No, you cannae have Pokey! Is cactus not a plant, what is it then, a weed?

Anyway the guy before you got it right, wonder how he came up with that pic so quick?

[ProtoEVO]

No, you cannae have Pokey! Is cactus not a plant, what is it then, a weed?

Anyway the guy before you got it right, wonder how he came up with that pic so quick?

I am new here so you don't know this yet, but... I am amazing.:thumbup:

[Asshat]

No, you cannae have Pokey! Is cactus not a plant, what is it then, a weed?

Anyway the guy before you got it right, wonder how he came up with that pic so quick?

Your mood is set to Paranoid! LMAO!! Just right click the avtar, save as, then go set it up under your own profile. Pretty easy really.

Are we off topic or what? Avtars, plants, clitoris' and computerese all in one thread! At least I learned what squirels and nuts were.

[thistle]

It died. :( Can I have Pokey? Is cactus a plant?


Uminchu, still don't see how you knew my dog's name, I cannot see it there on the avator?? should I put my glasses back on.

[P_chan]

... go cry with the 4yo.

Let's not forget that this is also their country, not ours. If they want to complain about something that we do here they have every right to do so. Try being in school and having to stop your lecture every 10 minutes because a jet flies over and drowns out your voice. It's a distrubance on their everyday lives, thats why they complain about it.

Reminds me of my neighbor I heard complaining about the eisa dancers the other nights. Hell, it's their tradition and their country so they can do it if they want. What about every other night once he sit's in his car and listens to his music at full blast? More disturbing then the eisa dancers if you ask me.

[Asshat]

Let's not forget that this is also their country, not ours.

P_chan, there is an important distinction here. Their "country" has made the decision to keep the US here.


Reminds me of my neighbor I heard complaining about the eisa dancers the other nights.

I was having trouble sleeping past the taiko drums myself, however I thought the same thing as you. Tradition....and I was wishing I were there watching them do the Obon thing with a cup of sake in my hand.

[Muku]

P_chan, there is an important distinction here. Their "country" has made the decision to keep the US here.


This probably could turn into a lively discussion about this point alone but I would venture to say that "their" country had no choice in the matter about deciding whether or not to "keep" the US here.

I submit that the US made the decision to stay and didnt give the Okinawan's nor Japanese government any choice in the matter.

I do not know for a fact here so I am asking you or anyone else that may know the answer this question;

Did the US ever give the Japanese government a choice on whether or not they wanted to keep the bases here in Japan, or did it just come about through time and the signing of the security agreements following WWII? Was it similar to "carrot vs the stick" diplomacy on the US's part?

Even if they were given the choice I would bet that the Okinawan's were not consulted with when the decisions were made, because at the time this was a US protectorate and if my memory serves me correctly when the island reverted to Japanese control in 1972 one of the stipulations for reversion was that the bases would stay. If I am incorrect here I would appreciate someone correcting me and if possible give any links to back it up. Thank you:D

[thistle]

Yes, and from what I have read, many of the Okinawans thought that with the reversion back to Japan, it would mean the US bases would go.
But to their shock and dismay nothing changed.

[Asshat]

Yes, and from what I have read, many of the Okinawans thought that with the reversion back to Japan, it would mean the US bases would go.
But to their shock and dismay nothing changed.

Um, no, that wasn't on the table. The deciding issue with that was the medical and other social services, not the bases.

Also, the Japanese government has not been forced into anything. Who do you think pays the utility bills for military here? How much have they invested in JFIP? Billions?

[P_chan]

I was having trouble sleeping past the taiko drums myself, however I thought the same thing as you. Tradition....and I was wishing I were there watching them do the Obon thing with a cup of sake in my hand.

I agree with you there:thumbup:

I didn't have any sake the eisa did march right by my house and I went outside with my wife and dog and we enjoyed the eisa.

Eisa dancers are awesome.:first:

[Muku]

Um, no, that wasn't on the table. The deciding issue with that was the medical and other social services, not the bases.

Also, the Japanese government has not been forced into anything. Who do you think pays the utility bills for military here? How much have they invested in JFIP? Billions?

Yeah but hold on one here, that is rather recent, the Japanese government did not always pay for as much as they are now. It wasnt too far in the past the the US Military paid for the Japanese staff on the bases as well.

Japan was forced to keep the bases here after the reversion. There were no social services provided for to the Okinawan's after the reversion, that was left to the Japanese government.

Maybe I am reading this wrong but are you saying that the Okinawan's expected the US to provide these services?

[Brett23iu]

its game time

[Asshat]

Yeah but hold on one here, that is rather recent, the Japanese government did not always pay for as much as they are now. It wasnt too far in the past the the US Military paid for the Japanese staff on the bases as well.

I don't know how long Japan has funded the Master Labor Contract, nor how long they have funded JFIP, and parts of the LQA. It has been longer than 20years thought.

Japan was forced to keep the bases here after the reversion.

The government of Japan payed the US 685 million dollars for the return of facilities at the time of reversion. The common legend that Japan promised the return of the bases is not entirely true. What was promised was 4 million dollars compensation to the Okinawans...only a quarter of which was actually paid.

There were no social services provided for to the Okinawan:s after the reversion, that was left to the Japanese government.

The driving force behind Okinawa's vote to accept reversion was the addition of social infrastructure from Japan. As a prefecture, they were told they would be on-par with the rest of Japan. The average Okinawan did not care about basing at the time. The benefits associated with health care, better schooling etc. were the deciding factor. At least this is how it was explained to me by someone who voted.