Do US bases make Okinawa a target?

[RosaL]

Critics of US bases in Okinawa often say that instead of protecting Okinawa from attack, the bases make the island a target. What do forum members think?

[Isaak Brodsky]

I'd agree with the critics. Weaponry invites challenges.

[P_chan]

I'd have to say it makes it a target. After all, if we weren't here who would they attack? The freaking sugar cane fields and soap lands?

[Trail]

I agree with P and Ian.

[InDuhUSA]

Critics of US bases in Okinawa often say that instead of protecting Okinawa from attack, the bases make the island a target? What do forum members think?

I disagree with the critics. I believe that the bases are a deterrent for those regions like North Korea, China, and others who desire to spread their Communist manifesto. If the bases weren't there to challenge them then they would most certainly take Okinawa and the rest of the Pacific.

I think the critics need to brush up on their history. It is the lack of protection that makes a place an easy target. No one should ever believe that if Americans left the Pacific region that North Korea and others would smile and say, "Well, they're gone. Let's just leave Okinawa in peace."

[Ammoyankee]

I believe the island would be a secondary target because of the limited capabilities of our fleet. Although, I don't see enemy troops parachuting in, someone with long range capability might decide to drop a few on us.

[dk]

I'm with Ian and P_chan, but what do I know.

[Ammoyankee]

I'm with Ian and P_chan, but what do I know.

DK, aren't you the 150lb cannon fodder? Did you enlist yet???:clear19:

[okisteve]

I believe the island would be a secondary target because of the limited capabilities of our fleet. Although, I don't see enemy troops parachuting in, someone with long range capability might decide to drop a few on us.

It sure isn't going to be a safe haven once the nukes start flying!

[Ammoyankee]

It sure isn't going to be a safe haven once the nukes start flying!

That's a fact!

[P_chan]

Run! The (insert random asian country with a grudge against japan) are coming!

[dk]

DK, aren't you the 150lb cannon fodder? Did you enlist yet???:clear19:
After I get this degree out of the way! :grin1:

[InDuhUSA]

Run! The (insert random asian country with a grudge against japan) are coming!

Or how about the "If I close my eyes and pretend that everybody will all just get along and there is no need for an American military presence then everybody will be sooooo happy."

I love Japan, Japan loves North Korea
Let's kick out the military, and tell them, "see ya'"
With a great big hug and a kiss from us to them
Let's make sure we vote for Dems

[P_chan]

Or let's blow everything out of proportion and jump to conclusions? Or better yet let's blame everything on the liberals! Damn liberals need the fear of god instilled in them! Agree with america! Come on duh......you know that favorite conservative saying! America: obey it or leave it! Or how about the whole "christian nation"? Sorry, but I'm not serving for any christian nation.

[InDuhUSA]

Or let's blow everything out of proportion and jump to conclusions? Or better yet let's blame everything on the liberals! Damn liberals need the fear of god instilled in them! Agree with america! Come on duh......you know that favorite conservative saying! America: obey it or leave it! Or how about the whole "christian nation"? Sorry, but I'm not serving for any christian nation.

Don't know about a "Christian Nation" but all of the anti-god and anti-military rhetoric that comes along with the liberal agenda is pretty scary to me. I've met very few liberals who cheer the removal of all public religion who also do not advocate a downsizing (if not a downright disarming) of the military.

Liberals have the fantasy that if we just engage in "peace talks" with our enemies then we can work things out. They have this fuinny idea that our military presence invites the wrath and hatred of our enemies and believe we should just vacate the region. Sometimes I wish the American military would leave the region just so that they coukld see reality.

But then again, if the Americans did withdraw all troops and bases from that region and one of our enemies attacked and took over, say, Okinawa, you would all still find a way to blame it on George Bush and the military. :thumbdown:

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=DXZKz0c7_kc&feature=related

[InDuhUSA]

Yet, the Church of the Liberal agenda and their worship upon the altar of dead rock legends :grin1:

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Is it really that difficult to even imagine Duh?

[dk]

Is it really that difficult to even imagine Duh?
Only Jesus can bring you peace.

..( o ) <- halo
(^_^)v

[P_chan]

Only Jesus can bring you peace.

..( o ) <- halo
(^_^)v

And vengeful retribution at the same time:confused:

With Jesus you can have your cake AND eat it too!

[Crazysix]

I love having a bullseye on my back, it keeps me on my toes

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=SzvnM9aO8mE&feature=related

[vvloc]

And vengeful retribution at the same time:confused:

With Jesus you can have your cake AND eat it too!

Uh, I think it's a cracker these guys eat, maybe sembei.

[Crazysix]

Run! The (insert random asian country with a grudge against japan) are coming!
I say it will be French Polynesia.....they have the need to spread french dressing and french bread to all of Asia .......one country at a time.:scratchchin:

[ryukyuboi]

The US military has left Taiwan, Vietnam, and the Philippines in the last 40 years. This notion that the "evil empires" will fill the void and take over once the US military departs has no basis in fact in the Pacific region. Yes, let's not forget history, AND present day reality.

I think a military base makes for a military target.

[InDuhUSA]

Is it really that difficult to even imagine Duh?


Sure, send bucket loads of LSD, Marijuana, and "The Best of" CD collections of the Beatles (and some John Lennon solo music) to all of the world leaders that are hostile to the USA and we know that when they are all high and strung out with their hippy hair and peace signs then the world will be a better place.

Yep, I can see Kim Jong-Il making his peace sign :grin1:

[InDuhUSA]

The US military has left Taiwan, Vietnam, and the Philippines in the last 40 years. This notion that the "evil empires" will fill the void and take over once the US military departs has no basis in fact in the Pacific region. Yes, let's not forget history, AND present day reality.

I think a military base makes for a military target.


There is the small possibility that the hostile forces do not attack because THE US MILITARY STILL REMAINS IN THE PACIFIC REGION AND CAN MOVE IMMEDIATELY TO DEFEND THOSE NATIONS!!!

Of course I could also be dead wrong but something about those continued joint exercises in places like the Philippines and Thailand tells me that I am not too far off.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Yep, I can see Kim Jong-Il making his peace sign
I thought he directed soft-core porn.

[afansi]

Ignorance must be bliss

[InDuhUSA]

Fergettuboutit

[ryukyuboi]

There also is a small possibility that with a foreign military policy of the US to surround China and NK with US bases, containment, that those nations would naturally arm themselves for self-defense against foreign aggressors. It is not China or NK that has bases outside their territory. And it has not been China or NK that has invaded other countries, unlike the US. The policy of containment is nothing but a relic from the post WWII era. There has to be a better foreign policy the US could pursue within Asia in the 21st century besides a forward based military presence in allied Asian nations.

[Isaak Brodsky]

I disagree with the critics. ...

One way to solve the matter is to reference those nations that have renounced violence and have beatin their swords into plowshares. It seems fairly self-apparent that the neutral nations win out over those who turn to violence.

[Oki0619]

The US presence does make Okinawa a target, but no more than Japan itself is a target. The Chinese and Koreans (north and south) Have not forgotten what the Japanese did to them 65 years ago, nor will they soon forget with the Japanese refusal to admit their wrong doings. Granted no one in Goverment today was calling the shots then, but the emperor's father was. Beyond that there is no doubt a terrorist presence on Okinawa, I mean 50,000 Americans and lax security it is just a matter of time. If the North Koreans can kidnap Japanese right off the beach, I am sure they can get weapons ashore. But then I am a paranoid republican, who is scared of the foreshadowing welfare state America will soon become.

[Muku]

Critics of US bases in Okinawa often say that instead of protecting Okinawa from attack, the bases make the island a target. What do forum members think?

Hell yes it makes it a target......think people like Tyronne Hadnott and guys that have an;

http://members.cox.net/bluegargoyle/images/Otaku-Phen-5.jpg


And Tomon Misuko the "mayor" or Okinawa City;
http://www.kyudan.com/2003hirei/img/tomon_mitsuko.jpg


What other targets could there possibly be?:scratchchin:

[okisteve]

The US presence does make Okinawa a target, but no more than Japan itself is a target. The Chinese and Koreans (north and south) Have not forgotten what the Japanese did to them 65 years ago, nor will they soon forget with the Japanese refusal to admit their wrong doings. Granted no one in Goverment today was calling the shots then, but the emperor's father was. Beyond that there is no doubt a terrorist presence on Okinawa, I mean 50,000 Americans and lax security it is just a matter of time. If the North Koreans can kidnap Japanese right off the beach, I am sure they can get weapons ashore. But then I am a paranoid republican, who is scared of the foreshadowing welfare state America will soon become.

Too late, it already is one, and you are boring to boot.

[Oki0619]

Yes I am boring, and old, and senile, and sh!t I forgot what I was gonna say....

[InDuhUSA]

There also is a small possibility that with a foreign military policy of the US to surround China and NK with US bases, containment, that those nations would naturally arm themselves for self-defense against foreign aggressors. It is not China or NK that has bases outside their territory. And it has not been China or NK that has invaded other countries, unlike the US. The policy of containment is nothing but a relic from the post WWII era. There has to be a better foreign policy the US could pursue within Asia in the 21st century besides a forward based military presence in allied Asian nations.

If the Japanese (and Okinawans) can make the JDF a true military presence to be reckoned with then I am all for closing the bases and us leaving that region.

But reality says It ain't gonna happen in this lifetime. First, one is going to have to do something about that MacArthur Treaty, and second, Japanese people, especially those "we just want a peacful island" OKINAWANS are actually going to have to understand that peace comes with a PRICE! They are actually going to have to be prepared to fight and defend their peace when it becomes necessary.

Personally, if I was a warlord ruler bent on taking over the Pacific region, the first thing I would want is to see America leave the island so that I can step right in and build my base of operations there and take over the rest of Asia. Unfortunately I can't be a warmongering Asian ruler because my wife says I can't. Women! They never let a guy have a little fun :cursing:

[InDuhUSA]

One way to solve the matter is to reference those nations that have renounced violence and have beatin their swords into plowshares. It seems fairly self-apparent that the neutral nations win out over those who turn to violence.

Can you name a few of them? Sounds like you are quoting a prophesy from Isaiah. Isn't there suppose to be a war of Armegeddon before the swords are finally beat into plowshares?

[Muku]

Personally, if I was a warlord ruler bent on taking over the Pacific region, the first thing I would want is to see America leave the island so that I can step right in and build my base of operations there and take over the rest of Asia. Unfortunately I can't be a warmongering Asian ruler because my wife says I can't. Women! They never let a guy have a little fun

How old are you?

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

http://members.cox.net/bluegargoyle/images/Otaku-Phen-5.jpg

What do the teachers at your school say when you have these photos on your monitor Muk?

[Old Timer]

If the Japanese (and Okinawans) can make the JDF a true military presence to be reckoned with then I am all for closing the bases and us leaving that region.

But reality says It ain't gonna happen in this lifetime. First, one is going to have to do something about that MacArthur Treaty, and second, Japanese people, especially those "we just want a peacful island" OKINAWANS are actually going to have to understand that peace comes with a PRICE! They are actually going to have to be prepared to fight and defend their peace when it becomes necessary.

Personally, if I was a warlord ruler bent on taking over the Pacific region, the first thing I would want is to see America leave the island so that I can step right in and build my base of operations there and take over the rest of Asia. Unfortunately I can't be a warmongering Asian ruler because my wife says I can't. Women! They never let a guy have a little fun :cursing:


:rolleyes: Okinawans have paid the price caught between a rock and a hard place some sixty years ago. There is no strategic value in Okinawa itself. Okinawa is of little value, except for the US position now. Others would find the logistics a total nightmare.

[Muku]

What do the teachers at your school say when you have these photos on your monitor Muk?

I have no idea, now then where I work now they laughed at the irony of it, seeing as how the "medicine" would be appropriate for plenty of Japanese "oyaji" as well.:D

[InDuhUSA]

:rolleyes: Okinawans have paid the price caught between a rock and a hard place some sixty years ago. There is no strategic value in Okinawa itself. Okinawa is of little value, except for the US position now. Others would find the logistics a total nightmare.

I think that some in our government who have actually done their research would beg to differ with you:

In a report to be released publicly Monday, the Overseas Basing Commission advised the Pentagon to go slow in considering any changes to the troop level on the island.

“Okinawa is the strategic linchpin to operational capabilities in East Asia,” the 262-page report states. “Diminishing our combat capability on the island would pose great risk to our national interests in the region.”

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=28126&archive=true

[afansi]

The obvious answer to the question can be discovered in the way Japanese tourists vote with their feet when it comes to security issues and travelling to Okinawa.

I've never heard of tourists or tour parties coming here for security reasons, but whenever the US starts another war or gets the blowback from the last one, tourists stay away in droves.

Even the US military hasn't got the effrontery to tell them they should come to Okinawa to enjoy the security shield the US provides.

This is because the US military and Japanese government know the same thing as the thousands of tourists who cancel their travel plans.

The US military makes Okinawa a prime target.

How many Chinese missiles, I wonder, are targetting Kume Island or Miyako?

[Sex Wax]

http://www.clubfuji.com/Ash/base%20map.jpg

:scared:

[Asshat]

The obvious answer to the question can be discovered in the way Japanese tourists vote with their feet when it comes to security issues and travelling to Okinawa.

Do you have any evidence to support this claim?

I've never heard of tourists or tour parties coming here for security reasons, but whenever the US starts another war or gets the blowback from the last one, tourists stay away in droves.?

A great percentage of Gaum's tourism is down, as economics have forced the cheaper tours to Okinawa.

How many Chinese missiles, I wonder, are targetting Kume Island or Miyako?

What do Kume and Miyako have to do with anything? Are you implying that the strike range of any modern military delivery system is dependant upon a scant 50 nautical miles? Or a scant thousand miles?

[Old guy]

Critics of US bases in Okinawa often say that instead of protecting Okinawa from attack, the bases make the island a target. What do forum members think?

Hmmmm, military base or the Orion brewery.... I'd hit the brewery but that's just me. Oh! Your question, of course a military base is a MILITARY target.

[Asshat]

Hmmmm, military base or the Orion brewery.... I'd hit the brewery but that's just me. Oh! Your question, of course a military base is a MILITARY target.

I know I have been waiting for a unilateral strike on Orion by Suntori for years! It's emminent! :old:

[thatguy4]

I think that It puts the island on the map but I would have to say that as a defensive position it out weights the threat

[Old guy]

I know I have been waiting for a unilateral strike on Orion by Suntori for years! It's emminent! :old:

Yeah, they've been going slow since Asahi bought out Orion.

[afansi]

Do you have any evidence to support this claim?



I'm amazed you require evidence in this case.

I would have to say this is a matter of public record - it's been discussed in the press even by supporters of the US military.

The Japanese travelling public always avoid Okinawa at the first sign of any trouble: it's a simple fact.

[uriel]

afansi - the Japanese public (the public as a group, not individuals) also have been known to act like sheep in response to what people tell them. BSE scare, paying for NHK, etc... Doesn't mean it is actually based on rational thought.

"The US military has left Taiwan, Vietnam, and the Philippines in the last 40 years. This notion that the "evil empires" will fill the void and take over once the US military departs has no basis in fact in the Pacific region. Yes, let's not forget history, AND present day reality.

I think a military base makes for a military target." - ryukyuboi

Nice try. And while I applaud your attempt at tying the two together, you are wrong. First, answer me this: how many countries did Vietnam, Taiwan, and the Phillipines invade and make a land grab for while committing brutal acts of enslavement, murder, rape and pillage? Give up? Well, let me give you an answer. Zero. None. Those three did nothing of the sort. Second, which country in this part of the world invaded most of it's neighboring countries in this part of Asia with the intent to expand it's empire? Japan. Yes, the country that has given up violence and condemned war. Oh wait, they were forced to give up violence and renounce war initially, and now believe it is the right thing to do (I'm not saying it isn't, I'm just saying it wasn't actually their idea to be peaceful). So, your argument doesn't really hold water.

EDIT: After thinking more on this, they may not want Okinawa, just because it is Okinawa. Japan I could see as a target, and Okinawa by extension since it is part of Japan...

[afansi]

afansi - the Japanese public (the public as a group, not individuals) also have been known to act like sheep in response to what people tell them. BSE scare, paying for NHK, etc... Doesn't mean it is actually based on rational thought.

That livestock metaphor is also applicable to military cannon fodder of course.

Maybe it's better to live like sheep than die like cattle.

[uriel]

Ooohhh. The anti military crowd. It's a necessary evil until peace is worldwide. I say again, they live like sheep because it was forced on them when they were made to stop their efforts at taking asia. Not by their own choices. The only reason they live the peaceful life is because someone else is tending the herd...

[afansi]

Ooohhh. The anti military crowd. It's a necessary evil until peace is worldwide. I say again, they live like sheep because it was forced on them when they were made to stop their efforts at taking asia. Not by their own choices. The only reason they live the peaceful life is because someone else is tending the herd...

So what kind of "partnership" is going on?

[uriel]

We give them defense, they pay less than if they were to do it themselves. The US military also gives them training and weapons with which to build up their own self defense forces so in time they can do it themselves. Seems pretty clear to me. But I don't know what you are looking for with "partnership". I don't remember saying it.

[Old guy]

Ooohhh. The anti military crowd. It's a necessary evil until peace is worldwide. I say again, they live like sheep because it was forced on them when they were made to stop their efforts at taking asia. Not by their own choices. The only reason they live the peaceful life is because someone else is tending the herd...

Maybe we're just too drunk & lazy to be bothered with it. Why do you think the majority of peace protest organziers come from honshu?

UNTIL PEACE IS WORLDWIDE!? When... name one year in recorded history that peace has been worldwide.

....just keep repeating "i believe in fairies""i believe in fairies""i believe in fairies""i believe in fairies""i believe in fairies""i believe in fairies"

[Asshat]

I'm amazed you require evidence in this case.

I would have to say this is a matter of public record - it's been discussed in the press even by supporters of the US military.

The Japanese travelling public always avoid Okinawa at the first sign of any trouble: it's a simple fact.

Well maybe the press and the military should sit in the back of the taxi cabs when the women tourists ask the driver to take them to where the Americans are! You want simple fact, there it is.

If you are American and conversant in Japanese, you will know that the tourists are pretty much a guarentee of a fine evening out.

[Old guy]

We give them defense, they pay less than if they were to do it themselves. The US military also gives them training and weapons with which to build up their own self defense forces so in time they can do it themselves. Seems pretty clear to me. But I don't know what you are looking for with "partnership". I don't remember saying it.

You're out on summer vacation aren't you?

Japan pays billions of $$$ not yen a year for that defense.
Japan buys those weapons and pays for the training, usually old outdated weapons at that.
The Japanese constitution, with heavy U.S. influence after the war was written that Japan could not form an offensive capable armed force. That is why the Japanese military are called Self Defense Forces. BUT... there has been talk recently about trying to change the constitution to allow Japan to create a regular army, but i don't see it happening.

YOU(or your WE) don't GIVE Japan anything.

[Muku]

UNTIL PEACE IS WORLDWIDE!? When... name one year in recorded history that peace has been worldwide.

Ummm.......right before God created Adam and Eve? Or was it before animals evolved into something large enough that they had to eat each other to survive?

Can't remember which, wasnt born yet.......maybe you could ask Bones or Asshat the same question they've been around longer.:D

[DougP]

YOU(or your WE) don't GIVE Japan anything.

But we may be some cool dudes to hang out with from time to time. Hey companionship or buying a round is something isn't it?:D

[uriel]

Maybe we're just too drunk & lazy to be bothered with it. Why do you think the majority of peace protest organziers come from honshu?

UNTIL PEACE IS WORLDWIDE!? When... name one year in recorded history that peace has been worldwide.

....just keep repeating "i believe in fairies""i believe in fairies""i believe in fairies""i believe in fairies""i believe in fairies""i believe in fairies"


Uh, are you lost? I said that the military, any country's military, will be a necessary evil until peace is worldwide. When, you ask, has peace been worldwide? NEVER! That's the point! The point is that the military will always be needed. Wow. When I posted that I hadn't even thought of the off chance that I would have to explain it to someone. I don't live in a dream world, that's the point. With regards to why most of the protestors come from Honshu, it might have something to do with the agenda of people up there, not necessarily the ones here.

[Muku]

I don't live in a dream world, that's the point. With regards to why most of the protestors come from Honshu, it might have something to do with the agenda of people up there, not necessarily the ones here.
Or it also just might be due to the fact that they are jealous that there are Japanese livining here that dont have to work one day of their lives because they can afford to live off the "rent" money that the Japanese government pays them. Read that as pissed off that their tax money goes to others instead of them. They want a piece of the pie.

Or they could just be frigging busy bodies that just love sticking their noses into someone elses business under the guise of feeling sorry for the oppressed Okinawan people.:rolleyes:

[uriel]

old guy, you are taking it to literally. I don't mean give, like, here you go, arms for the poor. I meant that we make available to them our defenses, weapons (even old and outdated, are still pretty good). For the constitution, why do you think it was heavily U.S. influenced? It wasn't because we wanted something to do on a long holiday.

[uriel]

Or it also just might be due to the fact that they are jealous that there are Japanese livining here that dont have to work one day of their lives because they can afford to live off the "rent" money that the Japanese government pays them. Read that as pissed off theat their tax money goes to others instead of them. They want a piece of the pie.

Or they could just be frigging busy bodies that just love sticking their noses into someone elses business under the guise of feeling sorry for the oppressed Okinawan people.:rolleyes:

Come on man. I was gonna cover that next. Darn answer stealers...

[Old guy]

old guy, you are taking it to literally. I don't mean give, like, here you go, arms for the poor. I meant that we make available to them our defenses, weapons (even old and outdated, are still pretty good). For the constitution, why do you think it was heavily U.S. influenced? It wasn't because we wanted something to do on a long holiday.

So are you going to finish this? Since it wasn't for something to do on a long holiday why was it?

[Old guy]

Geez... takes forever to build up credits posting, i'm going back to the casino.

[uriel]

It was because once they surrendered, we were a major influence in the writing of their constitution so that it would be ensured that they wouldn't be able to do what they did again. I'm just wondering, can you fill in the blanks at all, or do I have to spoon feed you? Come on man.

[ssublime1]

Here is how I see it. In the event of a war the bases would absolutely make Okinawa a major target. If the bases were moved to another island in southern Japan that place would become a target and Okinawa would no longer be as important to attack. I don't think Ishigaki is high on anyone's list of targets for example. To think otherwise is turning a blind eye on common sense.

The benefits of flattening this island are pretty great in the eyes of any attacking force. This entire island could be vaporized with one medium sized warhead if it came down to it. Bam 50 thousand plus American military along with billions in assets gone in one afternoon. Not to mention an important staging area being no longer usable.

[Jazz]

The benefits of flattening this island are pretty great in the eyes of any attacking force. This entire island could be vaporized with one medium sized warhead if it came down to it. Bam 50 thousand plus American military along with billions in assets gone in one afternoon. Not to mention an important staging area being no longer usable.

I've had nightmares about this day! My wife and I have a meeting spot chosen, in the event that we survive. God, I hope I never see this shit!

[Sex Wax]

Maybe some of the Okinawan people have a secret pact with countries that would target Okinawa. They could like send a bunch of mortar rounds onto the runways from the rooftops nearby, and shut down the base for awhile and save Okinawa from being a target by taking away the threat factor a little. Hey....it could happen!

[ssublime1]

Well you know if that happened the entire attacking country would most likely experience the same thing. Hopefully that's enough of a deterrent.

Sexwax: Bahahaha! Sounds like something those crafty Okinawans would pull.