Dicipline System in DoDDS Schools

[wenjam]

Coming from the USA, and my daughter changing from a State school, to a DoDDS school, I have noticed in the DoDDS school, a lack in dicipline. By Dicipline, I mean reinforced manners, more name calling, less time taken with each individual student. Granted, my daughter does very well in school, and uses her manners at home, and public. But, if someone, even her were to get into trouble, they put their name in a 'box'. And nothing else gets said.

What happened to the dicipline that used to be in the schools when I or, we were young. I would say about 20+ years ago...?

I would appreciate anyones opinion on this matter.

[Jazz]

Discipline is illegal?

[Asshat]

It is hard to understand your post. "

By Dicipline, I mean reinforced manners, more name calling, less time taken with each individual student."

Do you mean the school should call students names or take less time with them?

[badkitty]

Really?!?!? I don't have that problem. My son goes to BHPS and I have had a wonderful experience with his teachers, counselors, and principals. I do however, notice other children's behavior and i see some teachers not taking care of the situation. I think that teachers can only do so much as far as discipline goes. But it all does boil down to the parents. Maybe it's just me but I have met some assshole parents and their kids are total nightmares. Some parents don't really teach kids manners.....

[wenjam]

To ryukyuchina:You would think dicipline is illegal in schools anymore. Seems like kids get away with so much.

[wenjam]

It is hard to understand your post. "

By Dicipline, I mean reinforced manners, more name calling, less time taken with each individual student."

Do you mean the school should call students names or take less time with them?


I mean the name calling between students is far worse, as well as the teachers have so many students in their classroom, they can't deal with one on one if they need it.

There are 27 students in my childs class.

[wenjam]

Really?!?!? I don't have that problem. My son goes to BHPS and I have had a wonderful experience with his teachers, counselors, and principals. I do however, notice other children's behavior and i see some teachers not taking care of the situation. I think that teachers can only do so much as far as discipline goes. But it all does boil down to the parents. Maybe it's just me but I have met some assshole parents and their kids are total nightmares. Some parents don't really teach kids manners.....

My daughter goes to BHPS too....Like I said though, coming from a State School, to this one is so much different. There were only 16 kids in her class, vs. 27 now...that is too much for a teacher, and aide to handle.

[badkitty]

My daughter goes to BHPS too....Like I said though, coming from a State School, to this one is so much different. There were only 16 kids in her class, vs. 27 now...that is too much for a teacher, and aide to handle.


I came from Vegas and it was 30 kids in one class and it's alot better but i still say that dependent kids are for the most part undisciplined monkeys. There is a minority that actually have respect for others and have manners.

[wenjam]

before my father retired from the military i attended dodds schools in england.. personally the education and experience at dodds school was better than stateside schools i attended... the dodds school all had gifted and talented programs.. the stateside schools i attended didnt..

also when we moved to the states the curriculum seemed behind..

once you hit high school i am not sure of the difference.. i speak on my experienes in elementary through middle school... junior high and high school i was in jersey which is another thread within itself

Good experience it sounds like...Alot has changed though....I agree that DoDDS has a lot to offer kids...I just don't agree with the class size, and dicipline system...or lack there of.

[wenjam]

I came from Vegas and it was 30 kids in one class and it's alot better but i still say that dependent kids are for the most part undisciplined monkeys. There is a minority that actually have respect for others and have manners.

Both my kids...6 & 3 are a part of that minority I guess. Please and thank you are a part of their everyday vocabulary, at home as well as when we are out. Of course, they will have their slip-ups now and then, but what kid doesn't?? For the most part, they are great kids. I have seen my share of undiciplined monkeys too, but, they are not that rare....

[Crazysix]

hey just do your job as a parent and you will have nothing to worry about

[Crazysix]

stae schools sounds too much like supermax fed pen

[Asshat]

I mean the name calling between students is far worse, as well as the teachers have so many students in their classroom, they can't deal with one on one if they need it.

There are 27 students in my childs class.

A few things have changed since you went to school regarding acceptable standards among discipline accumen.

I would like to refer you to the DoDEA 2500.1 (From memory, let me know if you can't find it)

The student/teacher ratio is within NAC limits. You are simply "lucky" if you fall into a classroom with a lower ratio. That has not changed.

What are experiencing is the effects of the largest population school here.

Next year, you should see some relief on that as re-zoning and some other changes take effect.

I can't tell you about an individual educator's operations in discipline. However you have the right to discuss that and any other issue with the teacher or the administrator...great guy by the way.

[wenjam]

my daughter will be going to zukeran most likely when she is old enough.. she is 4 now so a yr or so to go.. i have heard that zukeran elementary is one of the better schools..

most of the problems in schools nowadays are the bad ass kids and teachers can only do but so much...

you suspend a kid - then they miss school - their grades suffer - they fail - the kid gives up - next year the kid is worse etc...

i think the staff and admin has their hands tied to a certain extent.. until we as parents start raising our kids right schools will continue to get worse


Unfortunately, you are right...I think some parents don't see that. Some think the school is supposed to raise them. My daughter came home yesterday upset because someone was calling her "fat". She is not fat by any means. She is 6 y/o, and 56" tall. She is bigger than the others. of course. I always tell her to ignore them, but she is 6, it hurts her, and Like I said, when she said something to her teacher, she put the other kids name in a "box"....Did not say anything to the other kid.

[wenjam]

A few things have changed since you went to school regarding acceptable standards among discipline accumen.

I would like to refer you to the DoDEA 2500.1 (From memory, let me know if you can't find it)

The student/teacher ratio is within NAC limits. You are simply "lucky" if you fall into a classroom with a lower ratio. That has not changed.

What are experiencing is the effects of the largest population school here.

Next year, you should see some relief on that as re-zoning and some other changes take effect.

I can't tell you about an individual educator's operations in discipline. However you have the right to discuss that and any other issue with the teacher or the administrator...great guy by the way.

I heard about the re-zoning thing...Do you know when we are going to know something?

[wenjam]

isnt there a policy about one kids parents are not supposed to know about altercations with other kids...

or they are not supposed to know the punishments other kids get or something.. i know its like that at my daughters cdc..

if she gets bitten or bites akid.. i am not supposed to know who the kid is and what action was taken

That is one thing that is different here that I do not agree with. If some kid comes up to your kid, and calls them a name, and smacks your child, wouldn't you want to know if that child got punished, or something said to about it?

I don't care about knowing who the child is, but knowing what kind of action that was taken against that child is what I would want to know about.

[Asshat]

That is one thing that is different here that I do not agree with. If some kid comes up to your kid, and calls them a name, and smacks your child, wouldn't you want to know if that child got punished, or something said to about it?

I don't care about knowing who the child is, but knowing what kind of action that was taken against that child is what I would want to know about.

As a parent, you do want to know. But my question to you is "why?"

Do you not trust the school? Or is it a degree of justice you seek? Either of those two are not the schools problem, but the parents.

I PM'd you also.

[Sex Wax]

Them kids need
Discipline !!
http://www.clubfuji.com/Ash/A%20Nun.jpg

School discipline refers to regulation of children and the maintenance of order ("rules") in schools. These rules may, for example, define the expected standards of clothing, timekeeping, social behaviour and work ethic. The term may also be applied to the punishment that is the consequence of transgression of the code of behavior. For this reason the usage of school discipline sometimes means the administration of punishment, rather than behaving within the school rules.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discipline

[SGT_OKINAWA]

Live in Virginia.
Kids go to public schools.
Both are American -Japanese nationality.
Daughter 10
Son 8

My son has had a problem with a kid in his class, yes I KNOW, kids are just kids, but kids are a product of parents! So I take this as if they (The problem child’s parents) are doing this to me!

The problem child:
a. Calls my son "Jap boy" and “Dumb” etc.
b. More then 3 times has pushed him off the slide face first onto the ground, my son has scratches and bruises from it.
c. Pushed my son down and called him names.
d. Has chased my son and his friends around saying "I will get you"
e. The problem child has been given time out by the teacher and "red light" = no recess time at all before during the school year.

The teacher:
a. Tells my son he (The problem child) will not get recess in 3rd grade for a month.
b. Has given him (The problem child) the silent lunch time. Means he has to sit at the no talking lunch table.

My wife:
a. Wants me to call the school and see what they will do for this school year not for the next year, 3rd grade.
b. Gets mad at me when I tell my son to fight back, and he has, he got “Time Out” too, but the other kid just keeps on doing it.

Son:
a. I taught him how to land really good punches, block, and fight well, to use "Big" words like intelligent, articulate, etc. to tell this kid, "You say and do mean things because you are unintelligent" and things like that.
b. Told me "Dad, I will take care of it." Yet he is only 8 years old and knows that I am concerned, so he is trying his best to deal with it, and /or make it stop.

Daughter:
a. Does not have recess at the same time my son does, otherwise I would send her over to this kid and have her knock him out cold!

Me:
a. I am going to go to the school and watch them during recess, without them knowing I am there, (Yes school will know I am there, what I mean is through the windows of the class room, or from the car. etc.)
b. I am going to ask the school to do something to my liking, I am raising a smart well rounded child and it is not the schools job to do that, yet it is my responsibility to make sure this other kid does not mess with my kid, that is called good parenting.
c. If at worst, I'll write a letter to the other kids parents’ and tell them what is going on.

At least I will go to the school and sit in the class room and watch them during recess. If this problem child does something to my kid, I either want:

1. I am going to inform the school that I want the problem child taken out of the class
2. My son taken out of the class
3. The problem child not allowed to have recess at all
4. I will ask that my son be allowed to have computer time during recess instead of going outside (I really don't want that though.)

Peace!:army:

[wenjam]

Great job on your part..sorry for the problems...My daughter's problem is not an every day occurrence. We have been here for 3 months, and it has happened two times.

The thing I think needs to happen more is the teachers need to get the parents more involved if their child were to do something to hurt another child. It needs to be documented, and a conference needs to be held. If the parents don't know what is going on in school, how can it be corrected?

[wenjam]

As a parent, you do want to know. But my question to you is "why?"

Do you not trust the school? Or is it a degree of justice you seek? Either of those two are not the schools problem, but the parents.

I PM'd you also.

It's not that I don't trust the school, I just would like to know how they are handling the situation there. I have it on my end...that is, if they let me know something IS happening.....I usually hear it from my daughter, not the school.

[Asshat]

Great job on your part..sorry for the problems...My daughter's problem is not an every day occurrence. We have been here for 3 months, and it has happened two times.

The thing I think needs to happen more is the teachers need to get the parents more involved if their child were to do something to hurt another child. It needs to be documented, and a conference needs to be held. If the parents don't know what is going on in school, how can it be corrected?

Wenjam if one student hurts another student, you bet your bippy the parents get involved. What does not happen, and what you may be advocating, is some sort of mediation process between the two sets of parents.

That is a recipie for disaster. The parents do know what is going on at the school. However, it is none of anyone else's buisness what action the school takes against another student.

[wenjam]

Wenjam if one student hurts another student, you bet your bippy the parents get involved. What does not happen, and what you may be advocating, is some sort of mediation process between the two sets of parents.

That is a recipie for disaster. The parents do know what is going on at the school. However, it is none of anyone else's buisness what action the school takes against another student.

I do agree.....it is none of my business what happens to another student. After all, it is not my child. The only thing I would like to know, is that the situation was taken care of...Don't care about details, just something to assure me that something was done.

[Asshat]

I do agree.....it is none of my business what happens to another student. After all, it is not my child. The only thing I would like to know, is that the situation was taken care of...Don't care about details, just something to assure me that something was done.

That is fair enough. But if you think about it, the answer to that would be obvious. Many times when dealing with issues concerning our children, we fail to take the "reasonable person" approach. The issues are simply too close to us, and we are too emotional with those issues.

I could speak more on that, but I don't want to put the wrong idea out there. Again, I can appreciate the feelings all parents have when it comes to their kids.

[wenjam]

i may be wrong or old school for thinking this but...

my son was getting picked on by one kid.. he told the teacher.. teacher did nothing.. he told the kid to leave him alone.. the kid continued..

i told my son the next time that he messes with you bust his ass... period point blank...
i dont care what the mom or the wife says... that is not her realm...

so basically my son busted that kids ass... my son got suspended for a day... i took my son out to the movies, got ice cream and went to shopping...

he was also 8 at the time...


Good for you!! That is what we tell our daughter....take up for yourself.

[Asshat]

i told my son the next time that he messes with you bust his ass... period point blank... i dont care what the mom or the wife says... that is not her realm.

Good for you!! That is what we tell our daughter....take up for yourself.

I am sure I told my kids many years ago to deal with things in this manner as well.

Currently however, bullying is not tolerated at the schools. If you have an educator that does nothing when you or your child complains about bullying, call the Principal immediately.

Also, if your kid "busts another kids ass" I can assure you that your kid will see much more than a three-day suspension right now.

[Crazysix]

Live in Virginia.
Kids go to public schools.
Both are American -Japanese nationality.
Daughter 10
Son 8

My son has had a problem with a kid in his class, yes I KNOW, kids are just kids, but kids are a product of parents! So I take this as if they (The problem child’s parents) are doing this to me!

The problem child:
a. Calls my son "Jap boy" and “Dumb” etc.
b. More then 3 times has pushed him off the slide face first onto the ground, my son has scratches and bruises from it.
c. Pushed my son down and called him names.
d. Has chased my son and his friends around saying "I will get you"
e. The problem child has been given time out by the teacher and "red light" = no recess time at all before during the school year.

The teacher:
a. Tells my son he (The problem child) will not get recess in 3rd grade for a month.
b. Has given him (The problem child) the silent lunch time. Means he has to sit at the no talking lunch table.

My wife:
a. Wants me to call the school and see what they will do for this school year not for the next year, 3rd grade.
b. Gets mad at me when I tell my son to fight back, and he has, he got “Time Out” too, but the other kid just keeps on doing it.

Son:
a. I taught him how to land really good punches, block, and fight well, to use "Big" words like intelligent, articulate, etc. to tell this kid, "You say and do mean things because you are unintelligent" and things like that.
b. Told me "Dad, I will take care of it." Yet he is only 8 years old and knows that I am concerned, so he is trying his best to deal with it, and /or make it stop.

Daughter:
a. Does not have recess at the same time my son does, otherwise I would send her over to this kid and have her knock him out cold!

Me:
a. I am going to go to the school and watch them during recess, without them knowing I am there, (Yes school will know I am there, what I mean is through the windows of the class room, or from the car. etc.)
b. I am going to ask the school to do something to my liking, I am raising a smart well rounded child and it is not the schools job to do that, yet it is my responsibility to make sure this other kid does not mess with my kid, that is called good parenting.
c. If at worst, I'll write a letter to the other kids parents’ and tell them what is going on.

At least I will go to the school and sit in the class room and watch them during recess. If this problem child does something to my kid, I either want:

1. I am going to inform the school that I want the problem child taken out of the class
2. My son taken out of the class
3. The problem child not allowed to have recess at all
4. I will ask that my son be allowed to have computer time during recess instead of going outside (I really don't want that though.)

Peace!:army:

I teach my son, do not turn the other cheek. I was raised like monsta . Girl or boy, man or woman, you touch me, with out my consent, I will bring home that body part. I remember as a child, being told you better protect yourself because no one else will. Teach your kids to standup for themselves, and not to be intimidated by others.

[Sex Wax]

I teach my son, do not turn the other cheek. I was raised like monsta . Girl or boy, man or woman, you touch me, with out my consent, I will bring home that body part. I remember as a child, being told you better protect yourself because no one else will. Teach your kids to standup for themselves, and not to be intimidated by others.

Education through superior firepower !!

http://www.clubfuji.com/Ash/a%20kid%20gun.jpg

[Asshat]

Wax, I remember that photo. If I am not mistaken, it is of a Myanmar youth who is now revered because he dreamed of a Government ambush and warned the men. They made him a saint.

Is that it?

[Sex Wax]

Wax, I remember that photo. If I am not mistaken, it is of a Myanmar youth who is now revered because he dreamed of a Government ambush and warned the men. They made him a saint.

Is that it?

i got the pic from here. Doesnt really say any thing about the pic.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.instablogsimages.com/images/2007/12/05/child-soldiers_7866.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.stolenchildhood.net/page/3/&h=320&w=450&sz=53&hl=en&start=38&um=1&tbnid=Y4-Bv9fimqaudM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3DKids%2Bwith%2Bguns%26start%3D36%26nds p%3D18%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN

[Asshat]

i got the pic from here. Doesnt really say any thing about the pic.

Yep, that was the one...Myanmar. lol...shoot, I saw that pic about nine years ago and still remember it. Who said I was killing brain cells! lol.....

[Asshat]

so you are telling me that one kid defending his self from another kid gets more than a 3 day suspension...

wow

I sure am...just like in the real world. Look, I am the last person to tell someone how to raise their kids.

Consider this though. You and me...at work, and I shove you. You tell the boss, but the boss doesn't do much..so you hit me in the jaw.

What is going to happen to you under the law? More than a one-day suspension.

My point is that "I" think we should teach kids to behave within the law. If the law isn't working, then change the law...in this case, march into the Principal's office.

Again, I tell no one how to raise their kids. I only point out my thought process on the subject of dealing with aggressive fellow humans.

[SGT_OKINAWA]

I sure am...just like in the real world. Look, I am the last person to tell someone how to raise their kids.

Consider this though. You and me...at work, and I shove you. You tell the boss, but the boss doesn't do much..so you hit me in the jaw.

What is going to happen to you under the law? More than a one-day suspension.

My point is that "I" think we should teach kids to behave within the law. If the law isn't working, then change the law...in this case, march into the Principal's office.

Again, I tell no one how to raise their kids. I only point out my thought process on the subject of dealing with aggressive fellow humans.


Okay, UPDATE:

Thanks to all that provided the advice and kind words.

I am proud that we have really great kids, in fact they both got straight A's and we are entering the science fair this week, whew lots to do and help them with... anyhow I digress...

and on that note, I don't want him to think that dealing with a problem child his age the answer is to FIGHT, YES that is a an option, trust me, I am about to let the Tiger out the cage, but..

Good news, my son told me that the problem child's recess privileges have been modified, he is not allowed on the jungle gym equipment for the rest of the year, that is where my son and his friends play. so it is like he (we) will not have to deal with him.

But tomorrow 22 May 2008, (I live in the USA, yeah a day behind you guys) I am going to the school all afternoon for a "Field day" event the school is having, the entire school will be outside all afternoon and the problem child will be let outside too, so I will be watching like a hawk.

Yes, going to the school is plan A.
Plan B. is the letter to the parents and the school telling them I am calling the cops.
Plan C, I tell my son, if his hand touches you, DON'T COME HOME UNLESS YOU HAVE HIS HAND IN A PAPER SACK!

I'll keep you posted.

Peace!:D:army:

[wenjam]

You guys do what you wish...I am not too anal about it. I can only take so much of peoples rant and raves on the same thing over and over. He said he is done, now we will see. If you look at some other threads, he keeps bringing in God on everything. My problem is, if he wants to talk about it so much, he needs to start his own thread, and quit derailing the other ones.

[DougP]

You guys do what you wish...I am not too anal about it. I can only take so much of peoples rant and raves on the same thing over and over. He said he is done, now we will see. If you look at some other threads, he keeps bringing in God on everything. My problem is, if he wants to talk about it so much, he needs to start his own thread, and quit derailing the other ones.

I'm going to take that first part as a go ahead to do a little cleaning and to give RM a place to officially preach.:thumbup1:

And here (http://www.japanupdate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6339) it is.

Enjoy!

[gunny8511]

Dang! What a mess!

I tell my boy that he doesn't have to be physically abused by anyone, and that I will back him when he defends himself. The pansies that make the rules here declared that BOTH parties in a fight will be suspended. That means that if my son is attacked by a dirtbag kid, and defends himself, my son will be suspended alongside the dirtbag kid. That's bull$hit. I told my son that I would happily jump up and down on his principal's desk (maybe even take a steaming dump on it) if he's ever suspended for defending himself.

FAR too many parents are raising knuckleheaded kids. They're raising kids with no moral compass, and no sense of wrong and right. The rest of us have to put up with them, and are expected to let our kids be victimized by these little pieces of garbage. I don't EVEN think so sparky. You have an open invitation to kiss the one festering pimple on my ass if you think I'm going to teach my kid to accept the pacifist bull$hit that schools are offering these days.

[Asshat]

The pansies that make the rules here declared that BOTH parties in a fight will be suspended.

I'm assuming you are still active duty GySgt, perhaps just back to the "Fleet" after a successful tour as a "hat."

So I'll lay this out succinctly for you- realizing this is just internet talk and what not. Those "pansy's" making the rules is the current Secretary of Defense.

That means that if my son is attacked by a dirtbag kid, and defends himself, my son will be suspended alongside the dirtbag kid.

This is not "in stone" Gunny. The school administrators have leeway in assigning the "DoD Recommended" consequences, and certainly a student who is in danger of physical harm has every right to defend him or her self.

I told my son that I would happily jump up and down on his principal's desk (maybe even take a steaming dump on it) if he's ever suspended for defending himself.

As a father, I assume that you are exagerating here. Your consequences of course for threatening a US Government Official in the performance of his/her duties carry consequences that you really don't want to deal with at this point in your career.

FAR too many parents are raising knuckleheaded kids. They're raising kids with no moral compass, and no sense of wrong and right. The rest of us have to put up with them, and are expected to let our kids be victimized by these little pieces of garbage. I don't EVEN think so sparky. You have an open invitation to kiss the one festering pimple on my ass if you think I'm going to teach my kid to accept the pacifist bull$hit that schools are offering these days.

I am not an educator, nor am I an administrator. However, I can tell you that "problem" dependants are dealt with fairly severely across all branches of the service. Obviously, these actions are not made public, but they are reported, and "turds" of any age are quickly refered to police agencies (for example) and at a mininum reported to Service Agency employees who work directly for the Installation Commanders.

I hope this clarifies things a little bit. Many of us live in a "fish bowl" where our (and our dependants) every action is scrutinized. I suspect that the infererence that "every kid is a douche-bag except mine" mentality is a challange all parents live with. Trust me, there are not that many douche bags, and those students who **** up are dealt with long before anyone needs to take a steaming shit on anyone's desk, hopefully.

As an aside, I grew up in a rough place. (Rural as opposed to urban) I think I had a fight after school every day for at least eight years of education and more black eyes that I can count. It is my observation that we had more knucklehead kids in the 60's and 70's than we do now.

Feel free (anyone) to PM me for any clarification, cites for references, etc.

SF- (some of you know what that means):old:

[okifamily3]

I think the school system is afraid of repercussion. Let's say Im a teacher and I scold a child for wrong-doing, but I didnt actually do anything wrong, a parent would probably freak out on me. It's diffrent then back in the day. I'm not saying that they shouldnt, have you seen some kids now a days??? Lack of discipline, in my opinion. All I know is when I was in 5th grade in K.E.S on Kadena, a kid got slapped by a teacher with a ruler. All hell broke loose! That was waaaay too far. She still remained a teacher and was back the next week. It was crazy.

[uriel]

I sure am...just like in the real world. Look, I am the last person to tell someone how to raise their kids.

Consider this though. You and me...at work, and I shove you. You tell the boss, but the boss doesn't do much..so you hit me in the jaw.

What is going to happen to you under the law? More than a one-day suspension.

My point is that "I" think we should teach kids to behave within the law. If the law isn't working, then change the law...in this case, march into the Principal's office.

Again, I tell no one how to raise their kids. I only point out my thought process on the subject of dealing with aggressive fellow humans.


I think you may have misunderstood. I don't think he meant tell the teacher when the kid does it, teacher does nothing, then go back and mess the other kid up. I saw it as this: kid gets picked on by other kid, tells the teacher, teacher does nothing, punk kid comes back and is picking on him again physically, punk kid gets knocked out. It doesn't really work that way outside school where if you feel physically threatened because someone is making physical threats and you feel in danger and you defend yourself you get thrown in the clink. I do agree that if you went back and hit him, you would get in trouble. Sorry about the long windedness.

[Asshat]

I think you may have misunderstood. I don't think he meant tell the teacher when the kid does it, teacher does nothing, then go back and mess the other kid up. I saw it as this: kid gets picked on by other kid, tells the teacher, teacher does nothing, punk kid comes back and is picking on him again physically, punk kid gets knocked out. It doesn't really work that way outside school where if you feel physically threatened because someone is making physical threats and you feel in danger and you defend yourself you get thrown in the clink. I do agree that if you went back and hit him, you would get in trouble. Sorry about the long windedness.

A lot of parents will believe what their second grader tells them before they believe what a teacher will tell them. The teacher will always do something if something is warrented. On the other hand, with 28 second graders in the classroom, someone is always unhappy with someone else.

"Johnny hit me." "Go sit down." "Mommy, Johnny hit me and the teacher did nothing."

In reality, the teacher already knows Johnny has problems keeping his hands to himself and has already talked to Johnny's parents about it. Johnny's father is deployed in Iraq again, and Johnny's mommy has three other children all younger than Johnny and having issues coping.

So what does the administrator do with Johnny and his family? Suspend him for three days? What next? Report them to the police? (Yes, that is done very often) In the end, the Commands have a large say in what happens in the schools here. What impact would it have on Johnny's daddy who is in Iraq when he finds out his family is not suitable for command sponsorship any longer and is invited to leave the island?

This does not justify anything really, but I hope sheds light on what the schools are up against.

[uriel]

Always? How about all the kids out in town who get bullied into suicide? It happens here too. Don't think for one second that just because they work for DODDS they are the greatest thing since sliced bread. However, I do realize and understand that quite often a second grader, or any other child really, perceives things that quite often, in reality, are quite different.

EDIT: I also understand that the schools are up against long odds when it comes to discipline. That fact is not lost on me. I just don't agree with you, not even a little, that the teacher will ALWAYS do something if something is warranted. Doesn't happen. Most of the time, the majority of the time, yes. But, they are human. Things fall through the cracks.

[Asshat]

I just don't agree with you, not even a little, that the teacher will ALWAYS do something if something is warranted. Doesn't happen. Most of the time, the majority of the time, yes. But, they are human. Things fall through the cracks.

Not to you personnaly uriel, but in general:

Then don't let your kids attend school. Homeschool them. Deal with the system in place, or don't.

But don't presume to tell professionals how to do their jobs, unless you understand the big picture. Don't presume to tell the world how you are going to threaten a school official (or a second grader) unless you are prepared to pay the piper.

Show me any organization in which things don't fall through the cracks.

Families arrive over here with their rent paid for, schools free, the entire community on-line in order to serve them and their families, then complain when something isn't perfect.

[Old Timer]

I'm assuming you are still active duty GySgt, perhaps just back to the "Fleet" after a successful tour as a "hat."

So I'll lay this out succinctly for you- realizing this is just internet talk and what not. Those "pansy's" making the rules is the current Secretary of Defense.



This is not "in stone" Gunny. The school administrators have leeway in assigning the "DoD Recommended" consequences, and certainly a student who is in danger of physical harm has every right to defend him or her self.



As a father, I assume that you are exagerating here. Your consequences of course for threatening a US Government Official in the performance of his/her duties carry consequences that you really don't want to deal with at this point in your career.



I am not an educator, nor am I an administrator. However, I can tell you that "problem" dependants are dealt with fairly severely across all branches of the service. Obviously, these actions are not made public, but they are reported, and "turds" of any age are quickly refered to police agencies (for example) and at a mininum reported to Service Agency employees who work directly for the Installation Commanders.

I hope this clarifies things a little bit. Many of us live in a "fish bowl" where our (and our dependants) every action is scrutinized. I suspect that the infererence that "every kid is a douche-bag except mine" mentality is a challange all parents live with. Trust me, there are not that many douche bags, and those students who **** up are dealt with long before anyone needs to take a steaming shit on anyone's desk, hopefully.

As an aside, I grew up in a rough place. (Rural as opposed to urban) I think I had a fight after school every day for at least eight years of education and more black eyes that I can count. It is my observation that we had more knucklehead kids in the 60's and 70's than we do now.

Feel free (anyone) to PM me for any clarification, cites for references, etc.

SF- (some of you know what that means):old:

Well said. Thanks on the way. We have just had a very seriour debacle with a parnet trying to "strong arm" a teacher etc. My youngest went to home schooling because of "turdly" kids & maggot ass teachers. I hope Gunny 8511 is posting for the sake of jest. :old:

[Asshat]

Well said. Thanks on the way. We have just had a very seriour debacle with a parnet trying to "strong arm" a teacher etc. My youngest went to home schooling because of "turdly" kids & maggot ass teachers. I hope Gunny 8511 is posting for the sake of jest. :old:

My youngest did too. Best thing as a parent I ever did....

[uriel]

Okay, I guess I wasn't clear enough. I didn't mean the majority of the time they don't see everything. What I disagreed with was your generalization that they ALWAYS do something when it is needed. These extremes are not realistic. As far as the threats that were made, not by me, they seemed a little excessive. As parents, we have to obligation and right to speak up when we see something we don't agree with or is questionable. Not get aggressive usually, but speak up. It doesn't matter one iota what is given when they arrive here, if something seems amiss with how the school is handling something, does the parent not have the right to voice their concerns in a respectful and intelligent manner? And yes, just because they are professional, I don't believe that means we must be silent if we have concerns. That is the profession that THEY are in. We don't have to just quietly take any decision they make because we aren't "professionals". On the other hand, we also don't have the right on the virtue of being parents to berate and verbally abuse educators. I deal with the system by using it the way it was meant, and voicing any shortcomings I may notice, in order to help improve it. I do not subscribe to the "you aren't a pro, you have no say" school of thought.