(Graphic Images)Islam's bloody Ashura Festival: child abuse

[TheNoNamedOne]

The chance of geography in birth can save a child from abuse -- like winning the lottery -- particularly if born in a place where the Ashura festival (http://sweetness-light.com/archive/the-muslim-ashura-festival-and-child-abuse) is not practiced by Muslims.

At the Abbas family home, officers found video footage that the family had shot during the ceremony in 2002. Spaced well apart in a circle and beating themselves with zanjeers were the two eldest sons, Firoz and Hanif. But they were not the only children involved: the film showed sons from other families flagellating with the same instrument. According to a report by the Crown Prosecution Service (which was asked by the investigation team to give formal advice), the youngest child at that particular ceremony was just six years old.

This was not a one-off incident in a single area; it is a national issue. In the past few years, there have been similar cases in Bradford and Blackburn, also involving teenagers and children as young as ten. The commemorative festival of Ashura is central to the identity of Shia Muslims…

Should Western Society allow Muslim immigrants to keep these kinds of traditions alive all in the name of respect for tolerance and cultural diversity and tradition?

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/151/375518108_67af72d948_o.jpg
http://www.ortzion.org/ashura_children.jpg
http://everyscreen.com/photos_02/ShiiteAshoura_01.jpg

[BleuEneG]

Are you suggesting that these children have inherit rights to not have this happen to them? hmmmm.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Are you suggesting that these children have inherit rights to not have this happen to them? hmmmm.

Not inherent. Just rights that if possible could be extended to them for protection.

Obviously they are not inherent, for in their culture their families think that that being a part of their tradition, makes it their inherent right to keep subjecting them to that tradition i.e. the right to raise their children the way they wish according to their culture.

Who are we, or anyone for that matter, to tell someone their culture is morally or ethically wrong? And if we do not have that right, if their culture becomes well established in ethnic enclaves in cities in Western countries, why shouldn't we allow them to continue with it out of respect for cultural diversity?

[TheNoNamedOne]

More mommy dearest.

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/1635/screenhunter3015hq.jpg

[Black Orchid]

do you like have something against muslims or soemthing?

i dont really see how this kinda of mutilation is too far off from circumsising your kid

[TheNoNamedOne]

do you like have something against muslims or soemthing?

Not the people who are Muslims. Just Islam, and a belief in that that causes them to be Muslims. Actually, I disagree with the "isms" of all religions. Not singling any one of them out as free from criticism. This thread just happens to be against the tradition of Ashura.

i dont really see how this kinda of mutilation is too far off from circumsising your kid

Really!? In today's modern world of medicine, circumcision is conducted in a clinical environment with precautions against infections taken i.e. keeping instruments and contact with things sterile. How much different is that than cutting people (many children whose immune systems may have not fully developed at a young age) with knives in an open dusty street?

Doctors as they circumcise infants (or adults) are not worked up into an emotional frenzy, and certainly know when to stop cutting. Often adults, as children are flagellating themselves in their state of frenzy have to step in and stop it because the children get carried away and go too far.

In an operating procedure of circumcision there is not blood splashing on others who do not have protections to keep from inhaling that blood or landing on an open wound of their own. When people are flagellating themselves in close proximity to others, blood will be flying, and there is the real possibility that some blood from another could mix into the wound of another nearby or be inhaled by them in trace amounts.

You think these are just all minor differences between the two? I am incredulous that you would think so.

Hell, IIRC, I think on base there are now regs not permitting barbers to use straight razors anymore to shave the sideburns or neck due to concerns for safety reasons. A couple decades ago before the AIDS scare really got going straight razors gave a mean clean feel to the neck and around the ears.

And there in the Ashura festival it looks much more riskier than a shave from a straight razor.

C'mon, BO, are you still going to maintain that it is not too far from circumcision?

[okisteve]

All I can say is...

SHIIIIIIII'ITE

(I saw one such procession many years ago in Kabul. Not too much blood because they were mainly beating themselves with chains!)

What about those people who have themselves crucified in Philippines?

[RandomWalker]

Really!? In today's modern world of medicine, circumcision is conducted in a clinical environment with precautions against infections taken i.e. keeping instruments and contact with things sterile. How much different is that than cutting people (many children whose immune systems may have not fully developed at a young age) with knives in an open dusty street?

Doctors as they circumcise infants (or adults) are not worked up into an emotional frenzy, and certainly know when to stop cutting. Often adults, as children are flagellating themselves in their state of frenzy have to step in and stop it because the children get carried away and go too far.

In an operating procedure of circumcision there is not blood splashing on others who do not have protections to keep from inhaling that blood or landing on an open wound of their own. When people are flagellating themselves in close proximity to others, blood will be flying, and there is the real possibility that some blood from another could mix into the wound of another nearby or be inhaled by them in trace amounts.

You think these are just all minor differences between the two? I am incredulous that you would think so.

Hell, IIRC, I think on base there are now regs not permitting barbers to use straight razors anymore to shave the sideburns or neck due to concerns for safety reasons. A couple decades ago before the AIDS scare really got going straight razors gave a mean clean feel to the neck and around the ears.

And there in the Ashura festival it looks much more riskier than a shave from a straight razor.

C'mon, BO, are you still going to maintain that it is not too far from circumcision?

Bris causes the death of infant in New York via herpes infection. (http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/print.php?id=13676)