E-4 no longer considered NCO's in Marine Corps

[billythekid]

Well I guess they still are but not according to the new liberty order just signed. "Armed Forces perssonel in the grades from E1 to E4 must have a liberty buddy for off base liberty".

[OkinawaStud]

Damn, E4 is considered NCO in USMC? AF E5 is NCO.

[Courtney]

sucks to be you guys...

[Samusan1986]

Well I guess they still are but not according to the new liberty order just signed. "Armed Forces perssonel in the grades from E1 to E4 must have a liberty buddy for off base liberty".

Where in the order does it say a Corporal is not an NCO? it just means that most problems occur with E-4 and below, and yeah there are some jackass Corporals who act like boot ass b1tches which in turn makes NCOs look like shit thats why it says E-4 and below...

[Samusan1986]

E-4 were never really "considered" NCO's
they were merely Super senior lance corporals :D
notice when many SGT's screw up the punishment is usually less severe than if it were a CPL

you my friend are a jackass. Cpl and SSgt are the two hardest and possibly the most important ranks in the Marine Corps, most Corporals earn there bloodstripe, stop posting this bullsh1t

[OkinawaStud]

You 2 guys get a room.

[billythekid]

Where in the order does it say a Corporal is not an NCO? it just means that most problems occur with E-4 and below, and yeah there are some jackass Corporals who act like boot ass b1tches which in turn makes NCOs look like shit thats why it says E-4 and below...

aggree, it is disapointing that happens, you would think this guys have a bit more common sense.

[OkinawaStud]

before I go any further please get a dictionary and correct your post...........


YES!!!! Another grammar Nazi! Welcome to the club:thumbup:

[socalheart]

you my friend are a jackass.

I'm just letting you know as a nice gesture that actually calling another user this or similar term is frowned upon by the moderators and is seen as breaking a rule of using this public forum. Even if it is guyjin, :p there's no need to call him names like that.

[OkinawaStud]

Giddyup! I know what socal is talking about.

[OkinawaStud]

It wasn't you she was warning.

[Samusan1986]

That doesn't bother me in the slightest
for you see I have developed thick skin which repels any words or utterances thrown at me:D

so ur skin absorbs gayness :thumbup:

[P_chan]

Welcome to the club! E4 has never been an NCO in the air force. But then again, if a AF E4 goes to the army he/she gets E5.

ur skin absorbs gayness :thumbup:

That's a pretty "gay" thing to say. Sounds like an insult a 4th grader would throw at somebody:-|

[billythekid]

I agree, it is disappointing that this happens, you would think these guys would have a bit more common sense.
There I went through the task of correcting it for you,and they say I am not nice!:-|
Do you have chubby fingers by the way?

Thanks man, but no is worse than having chubby finger, I am an Admin. lol.

[Samusan1986]

Is that the best you can do?
Come on do better,I know you can i have faith in you.

its was a joke, I dont mean to offend anyone, I just wanted to talk about the actual post, sorry to you and anyone else for the immaturity

[DocTurtle]

Samusan, I have a good feeling that Guyjin was just joking. Pull back the reigns, kick off your shoes, and relax. Pride is one thing, I can understand that, but you have to also realise the difference between joking and a personal attack...this was not a personal attack against the USMC.

I remember when I was deployed the running joke was that the quickest way to pick up PFC was to make CPL. The reason behind that was because everyone that promoted to CPL out there, the same day or the day after they were demoted to PFC because of something stupid they did.


***EDIT***
nevermind that first part Samusan... :p

[OkinawaStud]

Pull back the reigns, kick off your shoes, and relax.

Now that's GAY!!

[DocTurtle]

Now that's GAY!!

Could be worse...could be an IT guy. :thumbup:

[DoctorP]

It seems as though the name calling and insults are out of the way. Let's keep it that way. Thanks to the members who kept this from blowing up!

[DOCROB]

Ok this is just Bullsh1t in my book pure and simple I think this should be done by age not rank. I'm in the same age bracket as most E-6 yet I'm only a E-4 and this is how I'm going to be treeted FVCK that. Thank God I get out in Nov 08. If this sh1t keeps up they might as well call it Bahrain II.DOCROB

[DoctorP]

Age is not a reliable measure of maturity...there have been several screwups who were in their 30's....Remember Maj. Brown?

[DougP]

shoot how old was Hadnott? and wasn't he also an SNCO? double doh.:D

[Muku]

not to say Corporals don't garner respect but with the way the marine corps functions,"rank" seems to be "everything" and the more you have the more regarded you seem to be in the eyes of "most"
The higher the rank the "smarter" you are assumed to be.

Or at least supposedly able to handle more responsibility.

[proudtobnotpc]

Age is not a reliable measure of maturity...there have been several screwups who were in their 30's....Remember Maj. Brown?

didn't he get busted again in Florida for kidnapping and rapping a teenage girl:cursing:

[billythekid]

Two Words "BABY NCO" that colum was right, this guys are picking up way too fast, way to inmature, and one tells them they must now carry them self on a higher level, don't fraternise with E-3's and below, just call them Specialist, strip them of their blood stripe you don't rate. I fell sorry for the Sergeant Major that tried to say Corporal means a crap, this is proof it aint shit. No disrespect to my fellow NCO's.

[Tony Stacks]

you my friend are a jackass. Cpl and SSgt are the two hardest and possibly the most important ranks in the Marine Corps, most Corporals earn there bloodstripe, stop posting this bullsh1t


Actually in my time in the Corps I can say that the ones who actually EARN Cpl are the minority.

[Bones]

E-4 used to carry NCO status in the Air Force, until the Senior NCO's started complaining about not having enough "Prestige".

While the entire world is looking at pounding enlisted people for being stupid, little or no attention is being paid to the Officer Corp's. Since I've been here, I've seen Colonel's being busted for Sexual Harrassment/Rape, and a JAG losing his command, because his license to practice law was revoked 20 years ago. The first story made the cover of A.F.Times, the second, S&S, not too long ago.

The only people that I frown upon, are those that have been convicted. They should never have gotten through the screening process to begin with. The fact that they did, and abused their authority, only makes us look that much worse.

Then again, it goes to show you that stupidity does not confine itself to a certain rank.

NBTP

[Brand_X]

THe actual problem with the Cpl's is the fast rate of picking up and their not wanting to separate them selfs from their old pier group. Many (not all) NCO's and SNCO's are not doing their jobs. I always made sure to keep track of everything my Marines did. It isnt hard if you know your marines to keep a counseling sheet (or sheets) to make sure a nonrec sticks. Sgt's and many Cpl's do a great job of getting work done. Though they need to be there for their juniors they sometime look out for their interests rather than looking out for the Marine Corps.

[whatthe...!!]

THe actual problem with the Cpl's is the fast rate of picking up and their not wanting to separate them selfs from their old pier group. Many (not all) NCO's and SNCO's are not doing their jobs. .

I agree here. A number of my old marines now SNCO's say the same thing. Some even say that there is so much paperwork work now involved (may be different between commands) with tracking their junior Marines and all of the regular reports that they do not even have enough time to get face to face with them. I even see many problems on base, but no one seems to come out correct our military members. People constantly out of uniform and civilian regs at all of the establishments and not one person getting in their face. Hate to say it, but this needs to be fixed from the top down.

[DoctorP]

didn't he get busted again in Florida for kidnapping and rapping a teenage girl:cursing:

It was Virginia...and some asian girl. He pretended to be a federal agent and told her and her father that he needed to go with her.

I knew the guy and his family personally when they were here...sad to find out how strange he really was!

[DOCROB]

Well if you look at it the military we're fvcked anyway you look at it, pretty soon we will all need libo buddies to go off base. Just goes to show the military isn't military any more it's turned politician.

[Spadesy]

I don't know. I can understand if it is that way because E-4's and below are found to have the highest numbers of incidents, but it feels like they're specifically targeting corporals because somebody feels "they don't rate." As for the baby NCO thing...I don't understand how corporals from a decades-old peacetime are being compared with wartime corporals of today.

(Warning, vent ahead):

It's just frustrating because it's like being an 18 year old PFC with a red card all over again. I volunteered for a tour in Iraq, came back, and enjoyed it until morons started with incidents. I used to date somebody out here, but it's hard to keep a girl interested when you can't drink, stay out past midnight, or, now, go somewhere without dragging a peer with you (how awkward). I heard there are plans to stop corporals from getting POV liscenses too (though I admit that's not based on anything more than hearsay, but with the way things are now, it isn't too unbelievable). :thumbdown:

[Rollin_J's]

E-4 in the Marine Corps is the entry level NCO. He/She is expected to uphold the professional core values and ensure that the UCMJ is adhered to and enforced. With that said:

Most of the offenders on the island of Okinawa are E-4's. Look it up...call PMO...if you have access you can get the real figures.

I am a Marine SNCO and guess what...looking back only a few people really cared about being an NCO (Corporal) and truly exercised their privelages and lived up to expectations. I know that I did not, but as I MATURED...I learned what my role as an NCO was and what responsibilities I was expected to maintain.

It is true that a lot of the NCO's today pick up rank to fast...but if they didn't....what would be the incentive to staying in the military.

I...as have others...have witnessed people getting promoted to ranks they clearly did not deserve or could handle. But that is the machine that we live in...and it is not perfect...there will always be those NCO's that carry a heavier load because they deliver....versus the immature NCO's who do not.

Roll On

[Tyru]

Ok this is just Bullsh1t in my book pure and simple I think this should be done by age not rank. I'm in the same age bracket as most E-6 yet I'm only a E-4 and this is how I'm going to be treeted FVCK that. Thank God I get out in Nov 08. If this sh1t keeps up they might as well call it Bahrain II.DOCROB

What's Bahrain II? I just got back from a year tour there and didn't have any restrictions like this. Yes, 2 am curfew for e-6 and below and off-limit places but that was it. Did something happen a long time ago?

[Dingo]

Most of the offenders on the island of Okinawa are E-4's. Look it up...call PMO...if you have access you can get the real figures.

I am a Marine SNCO and guess what...looking back only a few people really cared about being an NCO (Corporal) and truly exercised their privelages and lived up to expectations. I know that I did not, but as I MATURED...I learned

It's funny that officers get in a bunch of trouble too but no one talks about that and apparently SNCO's aren't gods either. Okinawa should not be a first duty station for anyone cause apparently people act like retards when they are boots. Plus I hope they keep it dry out in town for us.

NCO's don't care out here cause we are all treated like 12 year olds. I'm twenty 28 and a Cpl and I can't even go out to dinner with my girlfriend unless I bring a third wheel, how romantic! The marine corps wonders why it has no retention, plus my MOS was one of the one's that got it's bonus taken away.

Talking about statistics of problems....why don't you look at race too, not just rank??? Hummm, there is a trend there too. but they are not punishing the race.

I'm proud to say "only 9 more months" till I can just live and be my self.

[DOCROB]

I can not comment any more on this as I am to irratated over this new order. when I get out then I will voice my opinion on this matter.DOCROB

[Tony Stacks]

I'm twenty 28 and a Cpl and I can't even go out to dinner with my girlfriend unless I bring a third wheel, how romantic! .


She can't be your libo buddy?

[Dingo]

Nope, my "libo buddy" has to be a service member. I asked my command for clarification and that's what they said. stupid!!! Maybe SNCO's should have to have libo buddies since they were the one's that caused all this stuff....I'm not saying a bunch of idiots didn't do crap after him but whats the point of giving them all gold cards right away??? so, there is no difference but they have a plastic card in their wallet that they give 2 craps about cause it doesn't affect them....at all.

This is frustrating. I was wanting to get an apartment with my GF in the near future so our relationship can progress....but the military makes it impossible, I'm glad she is a great GF cause she has to put up with all this crap.

I can't wait for the career planer, CO and sgtmaj to ask me why I'm not reenlisting...I will probably laugh and ask them if they seriously just asked me that question.:w00t:

[Tony Stacks]

I can't wait for the career planer, CO and sgtmaj to ask me why I'm not reenlisting...I will probably laugh and ask them if they seriously just asked me that question.:w00t:


That's basicly what I did lol

[Spadesy]

Old thread, but I just wanted to announce that one of our higher ups will see whether or not having a local national counts as a liberty buddy. As our first sergeant said, "somehow I think that a Marine and Okinawan lady are much less likely to cause trouble out in town than two jarheads." :thumbup1: So true.

[Sex Wax]

I'll be someones libbo buddy. They just have to buy me beer, then they can crash at my place off base. As long as they dont mind kids running all over the place, and changing diapers.

[tank03]

Dingo, I feel your pain, I've been on island for two and a half years, met my gf after being on island for 6 months. We saw each other everyday, and in those times I had a certain number of friends who knew I wanted to spend time with my girlfriend, so they went to the arcade while I hung out with her at Jusco and nearby resturants. I asked her to marry me November last year, and around that time those friends of mine PCS'd, I was a Corporal w/ a gold so I could go as I pleased.

First came the restriction, and that was cool, we hung out at the E-club and my room. Then came the order that we needed liberty buddies and all hell broke loose. I don't go out with E-3's and below, and most of the NCO's in my barracks just go base to base since they been here so long and struck out so many times out in town they just said forget it (I don't know).

I remember I told her that I have to get a liberty buddy to go out, and I literally spent 3 hours asking people to go with me. Finally I got one guy, but he was not having too much fun just looking at us so we had to come back early. This routine kept up and I couldn't even to another base because you can only travel there by bus/your car/SOFA. So we were stuck with either Futenma E-club or my barracks room with my roommate playing COD4 the whole time.

My girlfriend does not understand the concept of a "liberty buddy," and she took it as "she's so boring I had to bring someone around everytime I'm with her". I can tell by the expression on her face that she's not having fun watching Marines yell at each other and walk around drunk at the E-Club. I also know she does not like going to my room with another guy in there because she rarely talks or touch me.

The only time we have time to ourselves is when I walk her to her car in the parking lot, most times we just sit there and talk, but you always have the PMO walking around every now and then telling me I have to leave.

On a darker side, most likely because of the curfew, I've seen a lot more female Marines acting a little more promiscuous than usual. I see a lot more of them hanging out at the E-club and drinking a lot more alcohol. I also know of six newly pregnant females over the last 4 months, and a rise in females getting abortions there are nearly no secrets on base. I've seen a lot more Marines getting in trouble for sexual harassment, but you won't hear about this in the news or the Oki Mar (maybe a commercial) because the truth is restricting Marines opens the door to stupidity.

On base, Marines feel safer, there's no worry about getting lost, locked in up Japanese prison, not being able to find a taxi, running out of money to pay for a taxi, or drinking until you are blacking out because your room is a hop, skip, and a jump away. Marines will drink excessively until they vomit, then stagger to their rooms. Yes, I am aware it happen before the curfew, but my point is that it is happening more often. Try to bring a resolution to this and what is the answer? Counseling, and talking about feelings. You get in the circle jerk secession on Friday and come back with black eye Monday.

I also see a lot of the SOFA kids hanging out late at night, sometimes in the E-club (for you Foster/Kadena ppl). 18 year old daughter + drunken Marines does not = good...well not for the daughter in most cases. Not even going to start on the Kadena flying foxes (or Airmen wives if you don't know)

I'm a faithful guy, so I don't partake in those activities (weird, huh?). But if any parents of kids who are over 18 and suspect their kids hang out at the E-Clubs are reading this, make sure to tell your daughter(s) that yes I know my face is cute, no I do not know who Chris Brown is, and no they cannot hang out at my barracks.

Thank you for your time

[uriel]

bigmonsta, if you look at the regs for alcohol, neither can sgt's. Marines have a negative image partly because of what we (I ain't part of that crowd, just we because I also happen to be a Marine) do to ourselves, but partly because a lot of the guys/gals that I've met and known, get this attitude like everyone is out to get them, and they can't even understand that they are messing up and acting the fool and are bringing the heat on themselves.

As for Dingo wanting to get an apartment, GET MARRIED!!! It's too damn bad you would like to get an apartment with your GIRLFRIEND and move up a level. Almost no one gets to move off base if you ain't married. Deal with it. This is only what, a 1 or 2 year tour? Stop your crying and figure out a way around it. Request exceptions. They have been awarded, I've seen it. And before anyone starts flaming me for not understanding the woes of the poor lower ranks, I did my first enlistment and then some in Iwakuni. 2000 to 2005, so I know a little bit about liberty buddies and curfews. I figured out how to do it without breaking the rules, can't you?

[InDuhUSA]

E-4 used to carry NCO status in the Air Force, until the Senior NCO's started complaining about not having enough "Prestige".


The Air Force had two E-4 ranks - Senior Airman and Seargent. One stripers up to senior airman had an uncolored star and seargent up to chief had their star colored in on their stripes.

A person was promoted to Senior Airman after so many years as an A1C (unless they won one of those "Senior Airman below the zone" things) and then one year after being a senior airman, if they kept their nose clean, they received their colored star stripes. This was considered a promotion to the NCO rank, though the person remained an E-4 so their was no real increase in pay.

This all began to change just before I got out. They discarded the seargent rank of E-4 and clored everybody's star.

[DoctorP]

Old thread, but I just wanted to announce that one of our higher ups will see whether or not having a local national counts as a liberty buddy. As our first sergeant said, "somehow I think that a Marine and Okinawan lady are much less likely to cause trouble out in town than two jarheads." :thumbup1: So true.

Tell that to rape victims!:thumbdown:

[OkinawaStud]

The Air Force had two E-4 ranks - Senior Airman and Seargent. One stripers up to senior airman had an uncolored star and seargent up to chief had their star colored in on their stripes.

A person was promoted to Senior Airman after so many years as an A1C (unless they won one of those "Senior Airman below the zone" things) and then one year after being a senior airman, if they kept their nose clean, they received their colored star stripes. This was considered a promotion to the NCO rank, though the person remained an E-4 so their was no real increase in pay.

This all began to change just before I got out. They discarded the seargent rank of E-4 and clored everybody's star.


Giggity, giggity!!! I was one of those "Old Skool" Bucks before I got out. I remember it well.

[tank03]

bigmonsta, if you look at the regs for alcohol, neither can sgt's. Marines have a negative image partly because of what we (I ain't part of that crowd, just we because I also happen to be a Marine) do to ourselves, but partly because a lot of the guys/gals that I've met and known, get this attitude like everyone is out to get them, and they can't even understand that they are messing up and acting the fool and are bringing the heat on themselves.

As for Dingo wanting to get an apartment, GET MARRIED!!! It's too damn bad you would like to get an apartment with your GIRLFRIEND and move up a level. Almost no one gets to move off base if you ain't married. Deal with it. This is only what, a 1 or 2 year tour? Stop your crying and figure out a way around it. Request exceptions. They have been awarded, I've seen it. And before anyone starts flaming me for not understanding the woes of the poor lower ranks, I did my first enlistment and then some in Iwakuni. 2000 to 2005, so I know a little bit about liberty buddies and curfews. I figured out how to do it without breaking the rules, can't you?

Its still not a solid bet to move out in town or have base housing even if you are married. I know two Sgt's that got married and was still in the barracks waiting for approval 4 months after they got married before they were denied. It depends on your command, not the Marine Corp. Its just like the situation that if you work night crew (1600-when you are done), you should be given comrats, right? Wrong.

[P_chan]

wow p chan you are normally more on point than this...

in the AF e-4 used to be called buck sgt...

and last time i checked.. if an AF e-4 attempts to join the army.. before the retention issues the army has now and attrition due to iraq.. before all this you would lose a rank.. and you have to go through army basic training...

Key words in that sentence are "used to be", they're not anymore. So I guess my "never has been" doesn't apply, my bad. And according to the whole "blue to green" thing they got going on now, if you gain one rank once going to the army. But maybe that's for E5 and above, never really looked into it much.

[Old Timer]

Giggity, giggity!!! I was one of those "Old Skool" Bucks before I got out. I remember it well.



Old school is Corporal Junior DI’s, troop handlers etc. E5/ Sgt & below used to be required permission prior to marriage, and the chin scratching was endless. Most were denied, for good cause. Technology has required most Marines to be adept at everything other than leadership, rather than communication and expertise in the military skills being a Marine. In addition, leadership expects all to be gentlemen, rather than excepting whoring and drunkenness. Right now, you cannot even get a good f**k book on base. Times change, and I see the restrictions and “Jerry Falwell” military reaping the rewards they expected, especially in any foreign land. They want regimented, quiet troops, celibate for the most part leaving little mark on the countries we have to deal with. It makes sense.

**Any enterprising Marine should be able to escape most of the foolishness if he uses his noggin. I truly believe you can find a get over on these rules if you look hard enough. :old:

[P_chan]

If you honestly think the average E5 has only 2-3 troops, you are sorely mistaken. While there are those out there with only 2 or 3, there are those out there with more. If you're in a unit like combat comm you can end up with quite a few airman. I agree with the whole leadership thing, but not all E5s in the AF still act like E3s.

I've also seen E4s with people under them and I've seen E4s take the positions of E6s and run entire shops for months at a time (me).

[uriel]

Its still not a solid bet to move out in town or have base housing even if you are married. I know two Sgt's that got married and was still in the barracks waiting for approval 4 months after they got married before they were denied. It depends on your command, not the Marine Corp. Its just like the situation that if you work night crew (1600-when you are done), you should be given comrats, right? Wrong.

Allow me to clarify. If you get married, and request either an IPCOT or tour conversion (and I mean really, who wouldn't do that if they got married. Even if you are an E-3 or an E-4, the worst they can do is say no). If they didn't request, but all they were asking for is to move off base, I can see that being denied with a quickness. I'm not saying I agree with it, because I don't. I can just see i happening because, a) if you are unaccompanied, you won't be getting OHA, b) if you are unaccompanied, you're new wife won't be getting command sponsorship, i.e. no benefits like married housing allowance, acc. COLA. Again, I don't agree with it. However, those are the rules in writing, and as much as I tried to go around, bend, break, finnagle, or otherwise get around them when I got married in the 'Kuni. And believe me, I did everything legal, and some things shady, to try to get it. So I have felt that pain.

[P_chan]

What? I got command sponsorship for my wife once we got married? How do you not get it? Besides not taking the time out to apply for it.

[uriel]

What? I got command sponsorship for my wife once we got married? How do you not get it? Besides not taking the time out to apply for it.

What I mean when I say command sponsorship is when they consider you accompanied and actually give you the privleges that come with it. The allowances, higher COLA... When you get married you immediately get things like med, dental, and being able to come on base whenever she likes. For some reason, HQ here, for some reason, actually differentiates between "Accompanied" command sponsorship, and "Unaccompanied" command sponsorship, not in writing, but just the privleges they give to you. It's kind of a messed up system really...

[Tyru]

[QUOTE=bigmonsta;116075


e-6 and above... are senior NCO's


OUT[/QUOTE]

An E-6 in the Air Force is NOT a Senior NCO. E=6 is junior.

I know your next sentence said "That's the way it should be". Not sure what you are referring too. That what you said the enlisted tiers are or that's what you want the tiers to be?

[P_chan]

What I mean when I say command sponsorship is when they consider you accompanied and actually give you the privleges that come with it. The allowances, higher COLA... When you get married you immediately get things like med, dental, and being able to come on base whenever she likes. For some reason, HQ here, for some reason, actually differentiates between "Accompanied" command sponsorship, and "Unaccompanied" command sponsorship, not in writing, but just the privleges they give to you. It's kind of a messed up system really...

Well I just applied for command sponsorship and all the accompanied benifits followed after that.

[uriel]

Wow. You may have gotten lucky. What rank are you? E-5 or below? Which service are you in? I don't doubt, just curious.

[P_chan]

Air force, e-4. Yeah that was the big thing you had to get done right after you got married. That way you can get your housing, full BAS, and full COLA. You couldn't get any of those without command sponsorship nor could you get your wife on your orders once you left without command sponsorship.

[Tyru]

Air force, e-4. Yeah that was the big thing you had to get done right after you got married. That way you can get your housing, full BAS, and full COLA. You couldn't get any of those without command sponsorship nor could you get your wife on your orders once you left without command sponsorship.

P you don't need command sponsorship (CS) to get OHA, or COLA. That changed. I got all that last year without CS. Your

BAS has nothing to do with being married. BAS is for the member and only the member. It depends on if you live in the dorm or not, or the availability of the dining facility.

[Tyru]

forgive me.. that was a type.. i meant e-7 and above are senior NCO's and in my opinion that is the way it should be in all branches...

e-1 thru e-4 junior enlisted

e-5 thru e-6 junior NCO

e-7 and above senior NCO..

sorry for the mistype...

No problem. I thought this was another myth about the AF.

[Redsox'sNation]

Cpl's in the Marine Corps are NCO's... Plain and simple! I treat my Cpl's with dignity and respect and expect them to lead Marines. Marine Corps Doctrine states that a Cpl, during the time of war, can assume the billet of Company Commander if the Chain of Command is killed on the battle field. That is what I tell my NCO's and it works! I have some fire ball NCO's that do all the damn work for me. When I want to yell at someone in my office they walk in and tell me they got it, and they do...

Certain situations dictate the enviroment which out juniors are developed. Not all people are ready for the rank which he or she is about to fufill but they will learn what is correct with the right guidance. I have NCO's who are in charge of a small number of Marines. Theuy do great jobs and love them for it!

[NotSoAverageWife]

E-4 used to carry NCO status in the Air Force, until the Senior NCO's started complaining about not having enough "Prestige".

While the entire world is looking at pounding enlisted people for being stupid, little or no attention is being paid to the Officer Corp's. Since I've been here, I've seen Colonel's being busted for Sexual Harrassment/Rape, and a JAG losing his command, because his license to practice law was revoked 20 years ago. The first story made the cover of A.F.Times, the second, S&S, not too long ago.

The only people that I frown upon, are those that have been convicted. They should never have gotten through the screening process to begin with. The fact that they did, and abused their authority, only makes us look that much worse.

Then again, it goes to show you that stupidity does not confine itself to a certain rank.

NBTP

I see where you are coming from. I won't throw out any names....but a certain SgtMajor we know may find himself in some hot water over something stupid he did.:thumbdown:

[Mayberry]

Just to clarify, do these restrictions apply to married marines as well? Does my husband need a liberty buddy to go out in town with me? If so that's the biggest BS I've ever heard!

[xXNothingnessXx]

Just to clarify, do these restrictions apply to married marines as well? Does my husband need a liberty buddy to go out in town with me? If so that's the biggest BS I've ever heard!

Technically yes but the commands make usually exceptions for married Marines. It is mainly geared toward the single Cpl's. I guess the powers that be think that married Cpl's have a better head on thier shoulders...plus I wife to lead them in the right direction.

[xXNothingnessXx]

bah...

i was army.. certain e-4' IF they were in a position of leadership were authorized the rank of CPL.. they are still not a FULL NCO...

the way the marines treat these so called e-4 NCO's is bullshit.. if you are gonna give them all of that responsibility and so on... give them the perks as well.. i feel bad whenever i see a CPL in the shoppette that cant buy more than a 6 pack and 2 shooters.. liberty buddies.. bah.. give me a break..

you dont even realize how big of a hipocrite you are being...

if i had a dollar for every staff NCO who spouts off about hwo his CPL's do everything for them..

pfft... thats leadership for you.. WTF ever.. man up and lead from the front.. dont just sit there and HAZE and delegate down and think you are eing some kind of great leader.. your not..

in the army that is a piss poor leader...

and coming from lowly E-6's... lmao...

as i said in an earlier post

E-1 thru E-4 junior enlisted
E-5 and E-6 Junior NCOS
E-7 and above Senior NCOs

the army and air force have it right...


I don't agree with what the policy either but at the same time back before GWOT it would take a Marine about 4 years depending on MOS to pick up Cpl. Now with the Corps upsizing, atrition, and deployments it takes about half that time. Which makes younger less experienced Marines NCO's. I am not saying they aren't worthy of the title, just not a mature, in military life, as thier counterparts years ago. Plus as we all know we are under the micro scope out here...in the states there is no liberty buddy plan. We have Cpl's filling CWO and sometimes Officer billet, that doesn't mean they should have the perks Officers or even Staff NCO's get. Hell there are LCpl squad leaders, which 4 years ago was unheard of. Billets are responsibilities and ranks are symbols that don't nessisarily equate to leadership or maturity.

[Redsox'sNation]

bah...

i was army.. certain e-4' IF they were in a position of leadership were authorized the rank of CPL.. they are still not a FULL NCO...

the way the marines treat these so called e-4 NCO's is bullshit.. if you are gonna give them all of that responsibility and so on... give them the perks as well.. i feel bad whenever i see a CPL in the shoppette that cant buy more than a 6 pack and 2 shooters.. liberty buddies.. bah.. give me a break..

you dont even realize how big of a hipocrite you are being...

if i had a dollar for every staff NCO who spouts off about hwo his CPL's do everything for them..

pfft... thats leadership for you.. WTF ever.. man up and lead from the front.. dont just sit there and HAZE and delegate down and think you are eing some kind of great leader.. your not..

in the army that is a piss poor leader...

and coming from lowly E-6's... lmao...

as i said in an earlier post

E-1 thru E-4 junior enlisted
E-5 and E-6 Junior NCOS
E-7 and above Senior NCOs

the army and air force have it right...

Buddy, you must have been really smoking crack when you wrote that reply! I was not spouting how my Cpl's do anything for me jack arse, I was making a point that Cpl'c are NCO's and they should act like that. And by the way moron I am not an E-6! I do not know where you are trying to get your information from but coming from and Army guy and trying to speak about NCO's being NCO's I guess I am just wasting air.

Lead from the front? Why don't you take your fat ass of your couch and do something worth running your mouth about before you judge me jack ass!

[DoctorP]

Buddy, you must have been really smoking crack when you wrote that reply! I was not spouting how my Cpl's do anything for me jack arse, I was making a point that Cpl'c are NCO's and they should act like that. And by the way moron I am not an E-6! I do not know where you are trying to get your information from but coming from and Army guy and trying to speak about NCO's being NCO's I guess I am just wasting air.

Lead from the front? Why don't you take your fat ass of your couch and do something worth running your mouth about before you judge me jack ass!



Please refrain from name calling when responding.

[Tanimaga]

Why don't you take your fat ass of your couch and do something worth running your mouth about before you judge me jack ass!

Don't make PJ post his stats again!

[P_chan]

Buddy, you must have been really smoking crack when you wrote that reply! I was not spouting how my Cpl's do anything for me jack arse, I was making a point that Cpl'c are NCO's and they should act like that. And by the way moron I am not an E-6! I do not know where you are trying to get your information from but coming from and Army guy and trying to speak about NCO's being NCO's I guess I am just wasting air.

Lead from the front? Why don't you take your fat ass of your couch and do something worth running your mouth about before you judge me jack ass!

Oh no he didn't! You gonna let someone talk e-smack to you PJ? Watch out! He might get his E4s to rough you up. That is as long as they beat you up before curfew, and with a liberty buddy. Better watch your fat ass:rolleyes:

/instigating:D

[Ammoyankee]

Oh no he didn't! You gonna let someone talk e-smack to you PJ? Watch out! He might get his E4s to rough you up. That is as long as they beat you up before curfew, and with a liberty buddy. Better watch your fat ass:rolleyes:

/instigating:D

Yeah Pimpjuice, you f@t@$$, are you going to take that shit???:w00t::thumbup:

[tim duncan]

not in the army anymore...but when i was e4 . i always was in the middle zone in between the e-lower number, and the e-higher number, but i always had the e-5 taking most of the responsibility/flack.

i could screw around and get scoldings by the trusty e-5....who i respected, but who was also some person i worked with closely...so it was not really a big deal....

also, remember that it was a big step up at the e-5 level...and if you screwed around there, then, the first sgt/ platoon leader...would get on your ass...big time...if you messed up.....

it used to be a big step...when getting promoted from a e-4to a e-5....seems like it is still the case.....

fyi to any body still reading this stuff and you are a e-4 and are unsatisfied by the lack of respect.....just some advice..

the military has a "hard on for educated NCO's".

ask yourself this........do you think of going out and partying...or do you think of studying and making your unit better, on "any".... saturday night...when all the e- lowers are drinking themselves silly.... if you are of the latter group...then you are ready to be a NCO.:)

just remember if you choose to become a e-5...you will get more responsiblitiy....and your life may get a lot harder....but also in a good way..too....:)

[The One]

http://www.japanupdate.com/forum/photoplog/images/351/medium/1_ArmyStrong.jpg

ARMY STRONG 6"8' 300 lbs

[DoctorP]

my ETS award was a MSM.. Meritorious Service Medal...

This is the only part about your post that I take issue with.

If you were doing your job...why did you get an ETS? Those are BS (IMO)...you earn an award during your time....not for doing your time.

Too many times I saw SNCO's get ETS's for work that was done by the lower ranks (not referring to you). WTF??? This guy gets a NavCom for sipping coffee for 3 hrs each morning and going to the gym at 1pm everyday for 3 years?

PJ this rant is not directed at you...just the BS that goes on in the military everyday.


[/rant]

[The One]

When you all say work done by the lower rank? What exactly does that mean? Does that mean you are talking about the lower ranks actually going out and executing the order of which the SNCO has planned? I don't get it! If a good SNCO has done all the planning and then delegates to his NCO's, does that make him a bad SNCO.
When I was a NCO I wouldn't want the SNCO to micro manage. I would want him sitting behind his desk drining coffee. I thought if he was out there with me then I wasn't doing my job as a NCO.
If I am out of line then let me know. Because SNCO's become planners and preparers for what is to be executed. If they needed to be out doing the execution there would be no need for NCO's.

[The One]

LMAO.... this actually made me laugh my ass off...

as an e-5 i didnt need or want any one above me over my shoulder.. they had their own realm of repsonsibilities...

as an e-6 yes you do (depending on your MOS and position) do some planning.. or preparing.. but never was it within me to sit behind my desk drinking coffee doing nothing..

if my soldiers were out busting their ass on a task.. UNLESS i had some other pressing work issues to handle.. i was out their with my soldiers.. teamwork
leading by example.. not just delegating and directing others.. that is only part of being a leader..

as you progress in rank your job should get harder and more involved.. not the other way around.. UNLESS you dont give a **** about those who you are responsible for..

I am happy that you found some humor in my post. But you just repeated exactly what I said.
As a NCO I didn't really care what my SNCO was doing. As long as I was in charge. He would tell me the plan and made sure that I understood it. Then he would let me execute. I have much more respect for my past SNCO's that let me lead and not look over my shoulder. We tend to emmulate the good leaders that lead us and if you were brought up to micro-manage then fine. I am sure that there was a lot of talk about you being a micro-managing SOB.
Let it be drinking coffee or planning for the next event. Didn't matter in my eyes. Yes of course situation dictates when we all should be out there working. I know that Marine NCO's want more power and we should give it to them. It is slowly being taken away. The job will get done no matter what because we are Marines. No task is too big for our Marines.
That is the reason for knowing your Subordinates. Don't give them a task that is too large that can't be completed. Ensure that they understand the task at hand and let them lead. That is why the E-4s today believe that they are losing power.
I could go on and on about this. So I will stop. But I think that we are saying the same thing. But your words say that you should be out there all the time. That is not what the NCOs want.

[The One]

at what point do you see anything about micro managing in my post.. if my soldiers are digging foxholes.. if i can i am out there diggin with them.. i was not above doing menial labor..

my mos was power generation and distribution.. so when my guys were in the shop working on all kinds of equipment... i was around to make sure if they had any questions about something they are working on they could find me.. i did not dictate and run around behind barking orders.. my indiviual team leaders e-5's ran their squads.. i ran my section.. but depending on what we had going on in a 3rd shop direct support maintenance unit i was out there working on equipment as well... period.. and if you have any question as to the kind of leader i was well.. there are a couple of my former soldiers on this island.. hmm.. also there is an E-8 who i used to work for here as well.. i could probably shoot you the emails of many of my soldiers or their myspaces and let you ask them how they felt about me...

but i could give 2 shits what you think.. lol.. i dont work for you and you dont work for me..

LMAO...
We are still saying the same thing.

[DJ Tak]

PimpJuice,

If you don't mind, what did you do in Iraq because these two don't add up.

my mos was power generation and distribution.. so when my guys were in the shop working on all kinds of equipment... i was around to make sure if they had any questions about something they are working on they could find me.. i did not dictate and run around behind barking orders.. my indiviual team leaders e-5's ran their squads.. i ran my section.. but depending on what we had going on in a 3rd shop direct support maintenance unit i was out there working on equipment as well...

and last but not least.. last time i checked i did lead from the front.. in my 6 yrs active duty from 98 -04 i served in every hostile fire zone and every warzone that there was.. i went from e-1 to e-6 in 4 yrs in one of the hardest MOS's to get promoted in.. my ETS award was a MSM.. Meritorious Service Medal... I have led and brought home soldiers from the streets of Iraq... i have escorted the bodies of fallen soldiers.. friends home to their families... i have been hit by IED's mortars and almost anything else you can think of... but i brought all of MY soldiers home...
my friend.. i am well aware of what leadership is and all it entails... been there done that...

[DJ Tak]

It was hard for me to imagine a utilities guy doing this:

I have led and brought home soldiers from the streets of Iraq... i have escorted the bodies of fallen soldiers.. friends home to their families... i have been hit by IED's mortars and almost anything else you can think of... but i brought all of MY soldiers home...

[The One]

http://www.japanupdate.com/forum/photoplog/images/351/medium/1_ArmyStrong.jpg

ARMY STRONG 6"8' 300 lbs

???:thumbup:

[DJ Tak]

how hard is that to imagine.. especially in the early days of the war..

we were all soldiers.. we all went through intensive training... reflexive fire.. all kinds of good stuff..

so are you telling me that a marine with a support MOS does not ever function in any other capacity then his support MOS in a warzone..

have you even been to a warzone???

you do know that to get to jobsites you have to convoy right.. and convoys constantly get hit by IED's.. convoys constantly get ambushed.. by small arms fire and RPG's... are you aware that most units get taskers to provide soldiers for checkpoint or patrol duty...

do you know that even in combat/infantry/artillery/mortars units the do have support personnel... i.e.. admin, mechanics etc.. do you realize that when you are part of these units you pull patrols right along with everyone else..

are you aware that even 3rd shop maint ops have tons of missions outside of the wire.. recovery ops for disabled vehicles.. supply and logistics...

do you have any idea WTF you are talking about and what you are questioning

Thanks for the info. If not for what you typed I would have never known about combat service support.:rolleyes:

SSgt E
OIF 2003, 2005
OEF 2002

[POWNASAURUS]

EVERY MARINE IS A BASIC RIFLEMAN, your MOS comes second, I know cooks withe confirmed kills, so dont give me that bullshit...

[DougP]

I know cooks withe confirmed kills, so dont give me that bullshit...

After getting really sick off of chow hall grub several times I believe you:thumbup:

[DJ Tak]

EVERY MARINE IS A BASIC RIFLEMAN, your MOS comes second, I know cooks withe confirmed kills, so dont give me that bullshit...


What bullshit are you referring to and since when does the Marine Corps outside of the sniper community count confirmed kills?

[DougP]

Love the inter service rivalry
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii295/Mesix_Orion/choices.jpg

[Redsox'sNation]

well well well.... first things first... i did not singel you out in my post or name you in anyway... but since you took immediate offense.. hmm.. GUILTY MUCH...

now you did say something to the effect that you have fireball NCO's that do everything for you.....


second.. corporal schmorporal.. marine, sailor, airman, soldier... they are all representatives of our country and are expected to maintain the highest level of professionalism at all times.. we all know that doesnt happen... but i give the same amount of respect to the lowest private as i do the highest general.. i am that way now i was the same way when i was in the army..

third... i did not say you were a SNCO.. i gave my opinion of the majority of SNCO's that i have worked with hand in hand this last year working with the USMC as a civilian.. i have several friends that are usmc SNCO's and offline i.e.. gym or wherever.. when the talk goes to work stuff it seems to consistently come out of their mouths about how they dont do shit cause they make their cpl's and sgt's do it.. not impressive.. that IMO is piss poor leadership.. i am not gonna get into extreme detail as it would turn this post into a novel but i am sure you all can imagine some of the things that go on.. (hazing anyone)...

and last but not least.. last time i checked i did lead from the front.. in my 6 yrs active duty from 98 -04 i served in every hostile fire zone and every warzone that there was.. i went from e-1 to e-6 in 4 yrs in one of the hardest MOS's to get promoted in.. my ETS award was a MSM.. Meritorious Service Medal... I have led and brought home soldiers from the streets of Iraq... i have escorted the bodies of fallen soldiers.. friends home to their families... i have been hit by IED's mortars and almost anything else you can think of... but i brought all of MY soldiers home...
my friend.. i am well aware of what leadership is and all it entails... been there done that...

as far as getting off the couch.... like one of my fellow posters previously suggested...

6ft8 300 pounds.. i get off at 4-430 everyday and i would be more than willing to go for a run.. or you can workout with me.. even though i am awaiting surgery and am at about 30% i doubt you would be able to keep up let alone match what i do in the gym....

any questions..??

have a nice day..

ARMY STRONG

Yes my friend, you were not refering to me but that is okay... As far as your rant about life and how you did this and you are 6 foot that, okay soldier you have earned your right...

Now to pressing matters, I as a SNCO do not need to be out and about looking over the shoulder of every thing that goes on! If I do then something is wrong in my NCO corps and I am not doing my job by teaching our leaders correctly. This is why we say LEADERSHIP AT ITS LOWEST LEVEL! The Army is starting to realize this as to why they are changing doctrine on how they do battle.

I have never said that I do not participate in what my Marines do. I am out there for PT 3 times a week with them letting the NCO's run it 2 of those days. I lead the other day. I am not going to get into the awards thing as the award level between the Marines and Army is not even close. Marines do not give awards for just doing his or her job. Ask any Marine and they will tell you, when you see salad on his chest he has done something.

As far as the whole PT thing, brother I am 36 been in the MC for a minute. I PT 5 times a week with 2 days of crossfit and 2 days of MCMAP. I would welcome the work out you are inviting me too but it would have to be at 0530...

You say you were in the fight since day one in Iraq? What unit were you with? Was it with the 3rd ID? I was with 7th Marines pushing up Highway 7...

[DougP]

Marines and Army is not even close. Marines do not give awards for just doing his or her job. Ask any Marine and they will tell you, when you see salad on his chest he has done something.

Gonna have to agree with this one. The Army does hand out chest candy for every little thing. They give ribbons out for completing AIT for crying out loud.

[Jimmy Hoffa]

Gonna have to agree with this one. The Army does hand out chest candy for every little thing. They give ribbons out for completing AIT for crying out loud.

I hate to say it but I did see some pieces of shits get NAMS though.

[Redsox'sNation]

I hate to say it but I did see some pieces of shits get NAMS though.

NAM's are nothing to the amount of Bronze Stars, MSM and Army Comms that have been handed out over the course of OIF and OEF. It is funny, look at the medals given there have been 10 of thousands of BS's given to the Army vise the MC and the MC has recieved more Silver Stars and above... It if funny...

[P_chan]

It's almost as funny as the BS hate that each service has for the other one:rolleyes:

[Bones]

Nice one, P_chan.:first:

All of of us who wear (or have) worn the uniform, need to learn to depend on each other. Unless you serve somewhere other than CONUS, you'll never be able to appreciate what your sister services do for you. You'll appreciate that even more in an actual "Combat" environment.

Every branch of service has their "Myths", about the other services.

"Don't look at me, you're the one who put you there."

That's my usual response.

Then we settle down and talk about a certain word, "TEAM".

I have yet to see, that this single word, is producing any results.

[Jimmy Hoffa]

NAM's are nothing to the amount of Bronze Stars, MSM and Army Comms that have been handed out over the course of OIF and OEF. It is funny, look at the medals given there have been 10 of thousands of BS's given to the Army vise the MC and the MC has recieved more Silver Stars and above... It if funny...

Yes the Marine Corps is the BEST branch of service hands down. But but off topic ALL services are important. The USAF is in charge of AMC, the weather, Cyber Command, Paratroopers, Air Power, The Navy supports the USMC with medical and dental, transportation ie; ships, planes, and the Army deploys for over a year at a time, and I think Delta Force is under the Department of the Army but I could be wrong. Point is every branch has it's purpose.:army:

[Redsox'sNation]

Yes the Marine Corps is the BEST branch of service hands down. But but off topic ALL services are important. The USAF is in charge of AMC, the weather, Cyber Command, Paratroopers, Air Power, The Navy supports the USMC with medical and dental, transportation ie; ships, planes, and the Army deploys for over a year at a time, and I think Delta Force is under the Department of the Army but I could be wrong. Point is every branch has it's purpose.:army:

Gents, although I am a Marine and do think we have a good service I do ot think it is the best... I honestly do beleive that all the services have their piece to the puzzle that without one another the whole concept would not work... I was just making a side not about awards that is all...

[-Rudel-]

Crap Corporal was the first rank in the USMC. And now is considered a true NCO.

Our Marine Corps is becoming younger and fast promoting....with that, a lot of the Marines are still learning life, themselves, and maturity.

[Spadesy]

^ Damn straight. All for the best though. I signed up when I was an apathetic 17 year old, 4 years later with 3 years and 4 months in, I can honestly say I'm not the same person.

[Blues]

Yes the Marine Corps is the BEST branch of service hands down. But but off topic ALL services are important. The USAF is in charge of AMC, the weather, Cyber Command, Paratroopers, Air Power, The Navy supports the USMC with medical and dental, transportation ie; ships, planes, and the Army deploys for over a year at a time, and I think Delta Force is under the Department of the Army but I could be wrong. Point is every branch has it's purpose.:army:

I can't stop laughing at how this quote looks like the other services are designed to serve the USMC. I hope you're joking, because your first sentence is so narcissistic that it's embarrassingly funny. :w00t:

[tommyboy180]

I hate to say it and make some marine get all butt hurt about it but,
E-4 was never considerd an NCO.

Sure your important in the mission, everyone is to include contractors but E-4 was never considered an NCO rank.

Before I get all the marines yelling at me, suck it.

[Jimmy Hoffa]

I hate to say it and make some marine get all butt hurt about it but,
E-4 was never considerd an NCO.

Sure your important in the mission, everyone is to include contractors but E-4 was never considered an NCO rank.

Before I get all the marines yelling at me, suck it.

That's funny because Marine and Army Corporals were ALWAYS NCO's. Airforce E-4 was an NCO used to be Sergeant but that was changed to the Non NCO rank or SrA.
PO3 was always a Petty Officer.
So what are you talking about?

[Blues]

Airforce E-4 was an NCO used to be Sergeant but that was changed to the Non NCO rank or SrA.

From 1976 to 1991, the USAF split the pay grade of E-4 into SrA and Sgt.
*Amn Basic, Amn, A1C, and SrA did not have a star on their chevrons.
*SrA could be promoted to Sgt with 12 months time in grade (~4 yrs TIS) and completing NCO prep school.
*All this did was allow E-4s to become supervisors without getting the extra pay.
*Nowadays E-4s w/ 4 yrs TIS have to go to Airman Leadership School even if they are not selected to be promoted to E-5 SSgt.
*So essentially its the same except all the Airmen have stars. XP

[xxzjxx]

Ok this is just Bullsh1t in my book pure and simple I think this should be done by age not rank. I'm in the same age bracket as most E-6 yet I'm only a E-4 and this is how I'm going to be treeted **** that. Thank God I get out in Nov 08. If this sh1t keeps up they might as well call it Bahrain II.DOCROB

Devildog, if you dont like it, do something to get promoted, like community service and get your reputation built up, then go on a board, that way you can catch up.

If you are going to complain about things not being fair and that you are a man, well, prove it guy, dont just complain about shoulda woulda coulda.:army:

[xxzjxx]

Two Words "BABY NCO" that colum was right, this guys are picking up way too fast, way to inmature, and one tells them they must now carry them self on a higher level, don't fraternise with E-3's and below, just call them Specialist, strip them of their blood stripe you don't rate. I fell sorry for the Sergeant Major that tried to say Corporal means a crap, this is proof it aint shit. No disrespect to my fellow NCO's.

You are an idiot, you need to go to UMUC right now and sign up for an English class... please, this is a MUST for you at this point.:barf:

[greenflash]

Talking about statistics of problems....why don't you look at race too, not just rank??? Hummm, there is a trend there too. but they are not punishing the race.

I'm proud to say "only 9 more months" till I can just live and be my self.

What are the variables for your correlation? Are you saying that race is a causal factor in misbehavior? If so stop tip toeing through the tulips and call it like you see it (blame the Irish!) your not running for office this is a message board. Post data and make your case.


As for Dingo wanting to get an apartment, GET MARRIED!!! It's too damn bad you would like to get an apartment with your GIRLFRIEND and move up a level. Almost no one gets to move off base if you ain't married. Deal with it. This is only what, a 1 or 2 year tour? Stop your crying and figure out a way around it. Request exceptions. They have been awarded, I've seen it. And before anyone starts flaming me for not understanding the woes of the poor lower ranks, I did my first enlistment and then some in Iwakuni. 2000 to 2005, so I know a little bit about liberty buddies and curfews. I figured out how to do it without breaking the rules, can't you?
Yeah, rush right into that lifelong commitment just to make life easier or more profitable. It's worked out well for so many that the divorce rate is 3%. Only 46% of the Corps is married and 91% were from the enlisted ranks Pvt – LCpl 16%; NCOs 49%; SNCOs 26%. That's about 2300 Marines in 2006. But those numbers were from 2006 so a lot has probably changed.

[N3philum]

I didnt read every post.(I think i stopped at page 3). but it seems to me like there is a bunch of "bitchin' 'bouta whole lota nothin'."

CPL is an NCO rank in the MC>.. get the eff over it. If you think you deserve more privileges... get promoted.. if you think someone doesn't deserve to be promoted... say something.. there are systems in place in order to prevent turds (like me) from getting rank. some people (like me) slime by and can now tell you what to do.

(this isnt directed at ANYONE in particular except Uriel.. because he is a giant turd.)

[uriel]

Yeah, rush right into that lifelong commitment just to make life easier or more profitable. It's worked out well for so many that the divorce rate is 3%. Only 46% of the Corps is married and 91% were from the enlisted ranks Pvt – LCpl 16%; NCOs 49%; SNCOs 26%. That's about 2300 Marines in 2006. But those numbers were from 2006 so a lot has probably changed.

what? divorce rate of 3%?

how long have they been together? what is your idea of rushing? if he wants the benefits that come with having a family, but doesn't want the responsibilty of a family, too damn bad. that's like me saying i want the pay of ssgt without being promoted because I "deserve" it.