Are our grandchildren's welfare as important as our own?

[TheNoNamedOne]

There is no guarantee that tomorrow, let alone 50 years from now, will exist, so perhaps it is better to use all we have at our disposal now without a second of thought to the future decades when our grandchildren will inherit whatever we have left them.

The cost of trying to reverse global warming could be 20 trillion dollars -- and all for a gamble that we can reverse it in order to stave off ecological and human disasters decades later. Couldn't that money be better spent today in addressing the hardships we face now and to alleviate that suffering as immediately as possible?

Our children and their children can't vote, so why not let them pick up the tab for whatever we leave behind? Also, there is the real possibility that affluence will continue and our children and their children will be richer, so they will better be able to pay for everything. Advanced technology should also make things easier, more productive, and more efficient to clean up the mess, too, then.

Time to just move to Florida like our grandparents, but instead of leaving anything, spend it all.

http://www.thirdage.com/features/money/inherit/images/mm.bumper.jpg

http://www.killcar9.com/Portals/0/Daffy-Duck.jpg
So long, SUCKERS!

[Odie]

I'm absolutely shocked to hear something like this coming from you TP. I'm going to go ahead and assume that this some sort of reverse psychology type of post which leads into how the consumption of animals and their by products is impacting the planet but just in case.. I'll bite :D

I think that the statement could be argued and argued for a good 4 pages however the way I look at it, it's simple. If you respect and love someone and if these are your grandchildren, why would you not take them into consideration when making important decisions. Let's just put it this way what sort of person would let the house they live in go to crap in the last year that they lived there since they were moving out. Let the floors rot, the dog take a poo all over, the paint chip off the walls, the bathroom ceiling get full of mold and so on and so forth. What sort of person would do that, well a real flaming douche that's who. So we have to ask ourselves do we want to be flaming douches? I think not. :D

P.S The extra :D is for OkiSteve cause I know how he hates them

[okisteve]

Thanks heaps for that Odilie....

I suspect TP is using a rhetorical approach to get us thinking. I think a lot about it even though I have no grandkids.

Hell, even ol" assbite Limbaugh was creaming today over how important it is for the grandchildren that everyone should be a good conservative today.

If that means conserving what we have so little left of now, and trying to make the future less bleak than it might otherwise be, then....

....I agree with Rush!:D

[TheNoNamedOne]

What's wrong with hedonism as a philosophy to guide us?

[Isaak Brodsky]

There is no guarantee that tomorrow, let alone 50 years from now, will exist, so perhaps it is better to use all we have at our disposal now without a second of thought to the future decades when our grandchildren will inherit whatever we have left them. ...

Sounds like we should "party like it's 1999."

[Isaak Brodsky]

What's wrong with hedonism as a philosophy to guide us?

Nothing, I suppose, if you like dying of a coronary at 34 and screwing the senators' wives.

[Tony Stacks]

Global warming is NOT caused by humans. It is natural, the earth has always had changes in temp from much hotter than now, to an ice age, to everything in between.

MIT Scientist Richard Lindzen says:
http://www.cdfe.org/global_warming_religion.htm

Rush Limbaugh on Global Warming
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/tools/search.guest.html

Myth of Global Warming
http://www.ourcivilisation.com/aginatur/moregw.htm


I am TS

[Odie]

There is a group of people, including scientists that will tell you that global warming is made worse by humans then, there is another group, including scientists who will tell you it is not. Until there is definitive scientific proof then the jury is still out and even then there will be those who won't want to believe since doing so would greatly inconvenience them.

Furthermore Rush Limbaugh is a political pundit and therefore has no credibility when it comes to expounding upon scientific matters. Even if he reads from a study you know that he has a clearly biased agenda just like say John Stewart reading a study on his show. Therefore an unbiased person who actually seeks the truth should not take what is said at face value but study reputable sources and come to their own conclusion. Would you quote me if I chose to write an article on nuclear fusion and post it on the net knowing full well that I am not a scientist?

Philip Atkinson is a self proclaimed philosopher

http://www.ourcivilisation.com/author.htm
Early in 2004 I realized that not only did my theory clarify the subject of civilization, but it also clarified that of Philosophy, so ever since then I have considered myself a philosopher.

He is also an online publisher
In January 2000 I became an Internet publisher, placing a variety of books 'online' at my own expense, in an attempt to preserve some of the vanishing wisdom of humanity.


I would question why Mr. Atkinson had to resort to publishing his own material online rather than through a publisher. I understand that there is that liberal bias in the media and all but if people like Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter and Bill O'reilly can get published why can't he? Therefore I would also question what sort of credentials he has to be held up as a source on a scientific subject. Also if you would believe what other internet articles say specially that of E. Steward Rhodes

E. Stewart Rhodes, ex-paratrooper, disabled vet, ex-firearms instructor, former Ron Paul staff member, Yale Law grad/Research Scholar, & Montana/Nevada lawyer. Stewart has written for Gerry Spence's The Warrior, for moreliberty.org, writes the Enemy at the Gate column for S.W.A.T. Magazine, and is writing a book on the dangers of applying the laws of war to the American people in the "war on terror." Stewart is NOT a liberal, unless you want to consider him a classical liberal.
http://stewart-rhodes.blogspot.com/2007/08/philip-atkinson-on-americas-choice-and.html


Mr Rhodes states about Mr Atkinson
Philip Atkinson wrote back in May of this year that the U.S. should enslave or exterminate all illegal Mexican immigrants and then invade and conquer Mexico, to impose our culture on them

If what Mr. Stewart says is true why would anyone listen to someone who proposes slavery and genocide as an option for civilized humans.

So if one is to believe any article without credible sources found on the net then there are always other articles to refute it.

Since there is conflicting information and the jury is still out it's up to each individual to make a personal decision as to how they want to live. Even if each person takes steps to live "greener" and it turns out that that we have no impact on global warming we can still say that we contributed to a cleaner, healthier world. Let's not get so wrapped up in the argument of global warming that we forget that man made pollution and waste impact us and will impact our children.

[Odie]

I can only speak for myself but I find hedonism detestable. Hedonism as an individual philosophy is little more than selfishness, which is NOT a good characteristic in a person. As a wider social tenet I see how it could lead to the decline of a society.

[okisteve]

http://www.thirdage.com/features/money/inherit/images/mm.bumper.jpgTP - can't this bumper sticker be read two ways?

[TheNoNamedOne]

Yes, Steve. You mean "financial" and "environmental", right?

[kombu_kid]

I don't know......there always seems to be some life-or-death crisis that needs our immediate attention......and the solution always seems to be funneling money towards it and cramping our lifestyle somehow.......less driving, more crowding in schools, water conservation (less plants/trees on my property), using public transit that's filthy & packed.

I've got this theory......and it's that Republicans always want to romp around the world chasing imaginary foes, so they can "hook up" all their buddies & huge corporations with gov't contracts & "spread the wealth"....

....and Democrats want to create 50,000 stupid, unneeded programs that are financed by the taxpayers and chase imaginary problems such as "global warming", so they can "hook up" all their buddies & huge corporations with gov't contracts & "spread the wealth". One difference is that Republicans pretty much leave us the f**k alone.....while the Dems are busy like beavers pushing to take away guns, and every other freakin' right we've got. Maybe that's what give them a hard-on.......controlling people's behavior and cramping everyone's freedoms for the good of society, animals, the environment,...you name it.

BTW, I'd say we're pretty close to perfecting an electric car and getting mass transit more user friendly. But if any of the political parties were actually serious about energy conservation & global warming, there would have been some immediate, serious funding of mass transportation a good while back.

[Sex Wax]

There is no guarantee that tomorrow, let alone 50 years from now, will exist, so perhaps it is better to use all we have at our disposal now without a second of thought to the future decades when our grandchildren will inherit whatever we have left them.

The cost of trying to reverse global warming could be 20 trillion dollars -- and all for a gamble that we can reverse it in order to stave off ecological and human disasters decades later. Couldn't that money be better spent today in addressing the hardships we face now and to alleviate that suffering as immediately as possible?

Our children and their children can't vote, so why not let them pick up the tab for whatever we leave behind? Also, there is the real possibility that affluence will continue and our children and their children will be richer, so they will better be able to pay for everything. Advanced technology should also make things easier, more productive, and more efficient to clean up the mess, too, then.

Time to just move to Florida like our grandparents, but instead of leaving anything, spend it all.


OK..Cool. However, comma, pause for effect..............................Not to sound all tree hugging hippy and shite, but the kids now are our future. Our actions today do have effects on the generations that follow. I believe we should not only be responsible for our present, but try to do what we can to make a better future, and in some cases, atone for the past. I think that as far as "global warming" is concerned, maybe at the moment there is a human impact. But i think that we may be just helping along a natural cycle in the earths evolution. I dont think the cavemen and the saber-tooth tiger contributed to the last ice age. The Earth is changing, and it will continue to change. Good sand bar surfing breaks change just as much naturally as they do when man changes conditions on the shorelines. Sometimes, I see what we do to the planet and it makes me sick. But it also makes me sick when we are so arrogent as to say we can make a difference or we have messed something up. Oh, dont get me wrong, i know we peeps is some nastys, all the pollution and what not. And Its wrong, but the Earth will get over us and our mess over time. We may not be around forever. But I think we should be good custodians of the ever changing earth while we are here. And go to the beach. AND PLEASE PICK UP TRASH WHEN YOU SEE IT !!!!! ITS EASY.

ok...rambling done.

:thumbup1: