What do Christians mean by "a personal relationship with Jesus"?

[TheNoNamedOne]

I value words, and I value their common usage when they are used in every day speech. However, I find it strange when Christians say that one can, and they indeed do have a personal relationship with Jesus.

What does that mean?

I have personal relationships, and that means we go to movies together, call each other up, talk to one another, go on vacation together, have fights from time to time etc...

I also have an internal voice that is a dialogue, but I don't confuse that for an invisible person, even if I do hear it say, "Dude, it is late. Get to sleep or you will regret it." It is just me talking to myself and that is all.

I think Christians confuse their internal dialogue with themselves as a personal relationship with Jesus.

[Talindra]

ok so i was really debating posting what i thougth or not. Religion is always a touchy subject and seeing how i am a non believer in anything of the sort my opinion often offend people. so i replied to this via PM...and he wanted me to post my reply here lol...
so here goes. this was my PM to the prosecutor


"well I couldn't just post what i was thinking withough insulting people and well.. I don't want to insult anyone.
But what i think comes down to this (hope it don't offend you lol..)
Know how kids get lonely? Know how they often create imaginary friends? Know how they can really believe plush toys can talk?
well
I don't believe in god or an after life. I pretty much believe in nothing.
What i think is this
people who believe strongly in something
or someone,
Like jesus or god. and talk to them everyday. Pray to them. Ask for guidance. all that. everyday. Believe strongly that what ever happends, is in jesus's hands. that their futur is already set. that everything happends for a reason, and that Jesus is really there, everyday, listening to them.
well.. it becomes as much real to them, as an imaginary friend to a child.
My best friend is christian and more into it then the avrage person, and she describs it as a direct link to jesus. not just a name in text...
I honestly cannot understand it other then its all in their heads...
I don't mean they are insane...but prolly overly lonely...idk... this is what i think and hope it don't offend you lol I just couldn't post that withough prolly creating some kind of debate and being told off
I've had it happend before lol."

I really don't want to be fighting over if god is real or not. If people can feel something more, feel theres a god or what ever, i'm really happy for you. but to the point of saying you're connected and he listens to each and every one of us, and we can all have a relationship with someone, to the same being. Idk. to me its far fetch. and besides... I don't know much about religion really. I never really was interrested in it. but i was always under the impression, atless with christian and the bibble and all that story that... Jesus was only doing the miracles he was doing so we would open our eyes and believe in god, and see how good he is. not how good jesus is. I will never understand why people pray to jesus instead of god. Or to his mother, but not the man who raised him. sure she gave birth to jesus...but she was not any more special then her husband... now i'm sure i'm prolly missing stuff about her history but somehow i don't really care what she did that made her worthy of being prayed to. And I'm not saying praying is a waste of time.
I respect people who believe in something greater them themselves.
once one of my friend was in hospital and she was in grave danger of diying. I was still in school then, and i saw one of my teachers to explain to them that i was not gonna be coming to classes that i'd be in hospital with her. and the teacher god this idea that i should call this church in a city next to the one i live in, the only have err...(gah whats the english words....) sisters that don't go out >.> sorry lack the correct term.. ya know thoses that arent allowed contact with the outside of the church.. anyway she said that i should call them and ask them to pray for my friend. i was not so into it but i took in concideration seeing how my friend does believe in god and all that. so i called. and talked to one of them, told them of my friend, and the lady told me "You're in luck today... this week is the (ack more english missing lol...) celebration (that should be ok a term..) of sister "blablabla" (what ever her name was) who was the founder of the church and we pray extra long in theses time to thank her and ask her for more guidance" and stuch... and that she would ask them all to pray for my friend. so i had about 100 woman praying for my friend. I told her this and she was really happy.
I don't think about this much. She did get better, Could be she got lucky. could be the doctors did a good job. Could be she had help from beyond. what ever.
Believing in something is great. But idk how healthy it can be to think you got a relation with someone who's long gone and (in my opinion) can't hear you.
now i think i talked long enough lol...
I'll be quiet now >.>

[thistle]

I am kind of with Talindra here, I can relate exactly to what she said.
I was brought up a christian, that is to say I went to Sunday school every
week, till I was about 13, but I have never been very religious, and have
certainly never had any kind of relationship with God or Jesus.
It is not for the lack of trying and have at various times in my life gone back to church, looking for it, but I never found it.
Something inside me has this belief that I should believe in something, I should believe in the word of God, but it has just never worked for me.
Never did find it.
For those, who do go to church and read the bible and believe it all makes a difference in their daily life,then that is great.
When people ask me, I say yes, I am a christian, but I and only I know that I am not really. However, I am not a non-believer, and I know there is a God there, but he is in many different forms to many different people.
I just never really found him.

[TheNoNamedOne]

In reality, when someone has a personal relationship with someone and one finds themselves in a really horrible life threatening situation, if that 'other' in the relationship has the power to rescue you from that and save you from experiencing pain, suffering, and death -- they will do so.

That is what true personal relationships do. Even if my neighbor, a person who I don't have any deep personal relationship with, were about to walk next to a habu snake and I saw it, I would yell and tell him to get out of the way, or even grab him by the collar and throw him in the opposite direction.

Jesus on the other hand, has let many people who thought they had personal relationships with him go to their doom, and in many times in pain and agony with terrible suffering preceding that.

Strange notions of personal relationship, indeed.

[Isaak Brodsky]

In his book, "The Tacit Dimension," Michael Polanyi describes fairly nicely the sort of knowledge, it seems to me, your original question poses. To paraphrase Polanyi, we know more than we can tell. He spends hundreds of hours in lectures and countless words in epistemological arguments explaining how this can be so.

A so-called personal relationship with Jesus means no more than what it suggests. To those who maintain such kinship, the words "personal relationship" are to be taken literally. Other believers know what this expression means because of shared experience.

A non-believer in the gospel message of salvation, though, sees the words "personal relationship" as no more than figurative language, such as hyperbole or metaphor, or delusional language, such as that uttered by a schizophrenic. To the non-believer, these words are entirely empty because they are not connected to anything in the non-believer's material experience.

As many words, of course, have concrete meanings, they therefore have referents to the natural world--or at least super-natural one. Human language, that is the words and gestures and facial expressions we must use to express what we feel we know, is sometimes quite inadequate. Sometimes experiences betray our limited abilities to express in words what they really mean.

This is why we can recognize joy in the face of, say, a friend yet be unable to describe precisely how we knew it was joy.

[TheNoNamedOne]

A so-called personal relationship with Jesus means no more than what it suggests. To those who maintain such kinship, the words "personal relationship" are to be taken literally. Other believers know what this expression means because of shared experience.

All that means Ian is, "we can never tell you what it means because you don't have a personal relationship with Jesus." Or, "Because you don't have a personal relationship with Jesus you can't know what it means."

I mean, what does a personal relationship entail with Christians? First, what does it mean to a Christian to have a personal relationship with their friend? Then spouse, children, co-workers etc...? How are those relationships defined? Once we get an idea about what a personal relationship means to Christians in reality is, then I would like them, or someone to contrast that with a person who has died 2000 years ago.

[dk]

Which is probably why most Christians will most likely not take this thread seriously. You're not here for discussion. You've already gone out of your way to put them on the defensive. Your question was "What do Christians mean by a personal relationship with Jesus" but what your motives actually say by your third post is "How can Christians be so delusional to believe that they actually have a relationship with a guy who died 2000 years ago".

This is how I read it at least. Correct me if I'm wrong. Are you actually asking Christians what they mean? Or was the question a front?

It's like when a person comes to you with a pseudo-smile acting friendly with motives to actually convert you. Some people, like you, will want to hold a deep discussion with them, already knowing in the back of your minds that they will never change you.

And some people, like me, just see a fake smile on someone who just wants to convert me.

That's why I don't go to Church. And it's also why most Christians will most likely avoid this topic.

Maybe you'll meet someone on these forums who is your polar opposite and will want to actually debate religion with you. But most people I've seen on any JU forums just don't seem ballsy enough.

Which is why, if this was my topic, I'd probably keep it as neutral as possible until at least page 2 or 3. But that's just me.

Enjoy your thread.

[TheNoNamedOne]

This is how I read it at least. Correct me if I'm wrong.Are you actually asking Christians what they mean? Or was the question a front?

The question is not a front. Yes, I am asking them what it means and to describe it so that a non-Christian person can understand it. The phrase "personal relationship" asserts something very clear and within the last 20 years that has become a phrase Christians often use. It should be clearly easy to explain that and see exactly what it means so that others can understand it. Of course I may question it. Nothing wrong with that.

Nothing tricky or deceptive on my part. Yes, you are reading it wrong.

Already two people have weighed in, so I don't see any reason why you had to jump in with cold water as a thread killer by deriding it or questioning my motives. If you are not going to address the issue, why not just let it go? No rule violations were had.

[Isaak Brodsky]

Soren Kierkegaard deals with it in “Fear and Trembling,” Rudolph Otto in “The Idea of the Holy,” Leo Tolstoy in “The Kingdom of God is Within You,” and Carl Jung who confesses, “I could not say I believe. I know! I have had the experience of being gripped by something that is stronger than myself, something that people call God.” Other noted authors, philosophers and poets throughout history have also tried to express this sense of fellowship with the risen Christ too.

The major premise upon which those who reject the Gospel base their argument contains an inherent flaw for the believer. The non-believer already rejects what the Christian already accepts: Jesus is alive. It’s no mere accident that Christ is referred to as the Was, Is and Is to come.
His death on the cross 2000 years ago is a historical fact backed by witnesses and testimonies and documented in sources outside the Christian canon, yet nevertheless, his resurrection from death is a historical fact backed by countless witnesses and testimonies. A non-believer can’t seem to wrap his or her mind around the second historical detail substantiated by Jews and some select Gentiles alike.

An answer to the question about the meaning of “personal relationships” with friends, family members and co-workers seems self-evident, if I’m reading it correctly. My atheist friends, colleagues and family members can only know a portion of the theist part of me that my Christian friends, colleagues and family members know. A full range of metaphors that, say, Christians know because of their shared experiences in fellowship only carry vague or figurative meanings for non-Christians.

Perhaps the most significant title of Christ is Logos (Word). The notion behind this title embodied God’s revelation of Himself to humanity. The Word experienced in Scriptures comes alive in the heart of man through humility and prayer. This point, I think, at least approximates what “personal relationship” means to the believer in the Gospel message.

[dk]

The question is not a front. Yes, I am asking them what it means and to describe it so that a normal person can understand it. The phrase "personal relationship" asserts something very clear and within the last 20 years that has become a phrase Christians often use. It should be clearly easy to explain that and see exactly what it means so that others can understand it. Of course I may question it. Nothing wrong with that.

Nothing tricky or deceptive on my part. Yes, you are reading it wrong.

Already two people have weighed in, so I don't see any reason why you had to jump in with cold water as a thread killer by deriding it or questioning my motives. If you are not going to address the issue, why not just let it go? No rule violations were had.
I'm not killing the thread. I'm saying that you're very likely to only pick up members of the same mindset (which has happened).

And the only reason I haven't jumped in on this is because I AM of the same mindset.

I would LOVE to be proven wrong on this. And maybe Ian is that person to prove me wrong.

[TheNoNamedOne]

I'm not killing the thread. I'm saying that you're very likely to only pick up members of the same mindset (which has happened).


Then you might want to take a look at Ian's post, for he is not of the the same mindset, or haven't you noticed? If one, two, or just three Christians join in, I am fine with that. Perhaps others will lurk in and jump in later.

[dk]

Ian confused me. I'm still not quite sure where he stands. So far, he's just citing literature. Either that or I'm just a terrible reader today for some reason.

Edit: Well crap, I'm reading him wrong. I thought he was citing large blocks of text. He just writes exceptionally well.

[Asshat]

Historical "facts" have a tendancy to become embellished over a few thouand years. The canonization and decanonizations starting near 400 AD for example leave me with the uneasy feeling that Christianity and politics have always walked hand-in-hand as they do now. Over 30 percent of America's phillanthropic donations currently end up in the hands of Churches- whose lobby is felt across America. (Stem Cell research funding-and withdrawl of Fed. funds for those who engage in it, Terry Shiavo, etc)

How ever for one to desribe themselves as having a "personal relationship" with Jesus, God, St. Anthony, or a rock is simply what it is implied. Perhaps English is not the language of choice to desribe the relationship since it is merely a human emotion that is at stake. In other words, it is someone's preception of their own reality or being and is not open to question or debate. It simply "is."

There is ample evidence of mankind in love with an idiology. Why can this not be extended to include theologistic areas too?

[Talindra]

So i ask a good friend of mine whats his definition of it.
ME> whats a personal relationship with jesus mean? I mean...not like he can come over for beer now can he?
him> Sure he can!!
Him> Varies from person to person, a personal relationship with jesus can be what ever you want it to be. Because beliving in jesus is faith, hense "Be" anything.


I asked an other friend and she pretty much said the same thing. I don't think it can be clearer then this. but at the same time. I really do not get it.
I think its kinda sad that I cannot grasp a concept this simple. It seems far more complicated in my head.

[Asshat]

I think its kinda sad that I cannot grasp a concept this simple. It seems far more complicated in my head.

Nah, it is simple. It only becomes complicated when we get wrapped around the axle with the language choice. Simply yet another colloquial term some people use to tell others which "team" they are on.

I've got a close, personal relationship with single malt scotch. See how easy it is?

[TheNoNamedOne]

So i ask a good friend of mine ...
Him> Varies from person to person, a personal relationship with jesus can be what ever you want it to be. Because beliving in jesus is faith, hense "Be" anything.

I asked another friend and she pretty much said the same thing.

If it can mean something different to every different person, then it renders the concept meaningless at best, and nonsensical at worse.

Kind of like what the definition of how terrorism could be used. As long as someone is terrified from the actions of another, that person doing the action could be labeled a terrorist. See:

My daughter said she is terrified to come out of the bathroom because her brother said as soon as she did he was gonna put a whoop ass on her for some slight earlier in the day.

There. My son is now a terrorist.

But precisely because of the slippery concept of terrorism, government agencies and law continuously strive to hone in on the meaning that best lets us understand it so we can use the term in real life with dealings of others. Christians need to do a much better job at refining and explaining this concept rather than saying it can mean something different to each and separate person.

[Asshat]

Christians need to do a much better job at refining and explaining this concept rather than saying it can mean something different to each and separate person.

Why do Christians "need" to do anything for you? Remember the Harley T-shirts which said, "If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand?"

This is one of those things. Quit screwing with the Christians and let them verbalize like they want to.

And if your kids are anything like mine were, then yes, they are probably terrorists. :D

[TheNoNamedOne]

Why do Christians "need" to do anything for you?

Uminchu, those Christians who are members here do not "need" to tell me or us anything. My use of the word "need" is clearly rhetorical and not put forth as an imperative. I fully respect their right to ignore this whole thread if they choose to do so -- just as you may.

Remember the Harley T-shirts which said, "If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand?"

Well, scriptures which Christians base their beliefs on do not come from some Harley T-shirt. And in fact the Bible states that if one were to ask for something, it will be recieved. Furthermore, it implores Christians to preach the Good News. If the Good News includes the ability to have a personal relationship with Jesus, then that is fair play to discuss and inquire about.

This is one of those things. Quit screwing with the Christians and let them verbalize like they want to.

They are free to verbalize anyway they want, just as are those who hear those verbalizations are allowed to inquire more deeply about them.

Now, do you have anything more to shed light on what is meant by a "personal relationship with Jesus" that would make the meaning a less slippery one and easier to grasp for non-believers? If not, but you want to infer or convince me of something I need to stop doing that you find wrong or not applying to the OP topic, or counter to the rules of the forum or spirit of them, then PM me and we can discuss it there. Or you can take it in the open down to the forum feedback area.

Trust me, I will be thorough in addressing your comments/objections and not brush them off.

[Isaak Brodsky]

And in fact the Bible states that if one were to ask for something, it will be recieved. Furthermore, it implores Christians to preach the Good News. If the Good News includes the ability to have a personal relationship with Jesus, then that is fair play to discuss and inquire about.


Ask and you shall receive; seek and you shall find; knock and the door shall be opened unto you. A favorite refrain. I'm not sure that a Christian is so much implored to share the Gospel so much as he or she cannot help but talk about this good news. Even the expression 'good news' seems trite to the point of meaningless. It is, in effect, great news to the one whose heart is circumcised by the Spirit. Even my way of turning this phrase has no meaning whatsoever beyond the reader whose own experience with the Spirit can verify Gospel truths.

I tend to agree with the Prosecutor's much earlier suggestion that certain doctrines are slippery or ambiguous precisely because we only have language to rely on to express arcane truths. It is difficult enough, at times, to get the right word for the right concept in the concrete world, let alone getting the right word to embody other worldly experience.

[Mad Hatter]

I think that the reason that you got everyone so up at arms about what your debating... is because it seems to me that you stopped debating the subject and started attacking it. I kinda know what your saying Prosecutor, but everyone else has a good point too!

The fact of the matter is as simple as this...
Have you truely accepted Jesus in your heart?

You might not even know what that means, but it's ok. I know it sounds all out there, but if you know for a fact that Jesus is your heart and watching over you... and that you are doing right by Him... Then you know what it's like to have a personal relationship with Jesus.

But don't knock... until you try it.

[Asshat]

Rhetoric- good word, because in the end, that is what this thread is based upon.

If one does not understand theology enough to recognize Christianity as a mystical religion, hence "faith based" how can one move past the fact that an intangible doesn't need to be proven?

I don't see very much difference between what a Harley Tee shirt signifies and the Bible. Both were written by "man" yet both are revered.

It is surprising to me that after two-thousand years, the Christians are still being "fed to the lions" under the guise of intelligent prose.

[TheNoNamedOne]

(A)Even my way of turning this phrase has no meaning whatsoever beyond the reader whose own experience with the Spirit can verify Gospel truths.

(B)I tend to agree with the Prosecutor's much earlier suggestion that certain doctrines are slippery or ambiguous precisely because we only have language to rely on to express arcane truths. It is difficult enough, at times, to get the right word for the right concept in the concrete world, let alone getting the right word to embody other worldly experience.

Wow. I am amazed. It seems like the only person who is not offended by the topic and replying, able to discuss it, is the Christian here. I thought that if the non-Christians entered the discussion they would be the ones handling it without criticism or ire at the topic.

Anyways, thanks, Ian, for not being offended by the topic and discussing it. Some have felt an imaginary need to try and erect some kind of barrier or protection between my topic, replies and questions, as a way to soften or eliminate the impact of them to Christians. You have demonstrated you do not need their help in that to protect you.

(A)I understand what you are saying here, Ian. I geuss my objection to the phrase is that it is used as a kind of marketing ploy by some Christians as they speak of their "personal relationship with Jesus." I know they may not purposely mean it to be a marketing ploy, and probably mean it as a testimoney, but that seems to be rolled out as an inducive to people seek out Christianity. And I am fine with that, but, however, I think that if the term is going to be used in discussion or testimoney to non-Christians, it is slightly misleading to speak of something the listener cannot understand if they have not been, as you put it, "circumcised by the spirit." If the word is non-understandable to a non-Christian, then it would be like speaking Chinese to Frenchmen as to why communism and Mao Tse Dong are superior to democracy and liberty. In order to be effective, the Chinese would have to learn how to explain their concept, or one of their principle marketing point.

(B) Thank you, and fair enough.

[Isaak Brodsky]

... it is used as a kind of marketing ploy by some Christians as they speak of their "personal relationship with Jesus." ... but that seems to be rolled out as an inducive to people seek out Christianity.

I absolutely agree that Christians can come off at times as unsophisticated boorish and ignorant marketers. I came of age at a time when Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggert were prostituting the Gospel on TV. I would therefore take every opportunity to slap my friends in the forehead to "heal" them from saying the dumbest things in public -- an obvious act on my part to mock and ridicule the public exhibitionism of certain Christian rites. It was all in fun. (Of course, I was then a beer-bong guzzling frat boy satisfied to pass out in a pool of his own puke each weekend night.)

I was always very suspicious of Christians attempting to sell me something that I would have to waste a great deal of time and energy maintaining, such as faith or prayer time.

The problem is is that our post-industrial culture is replete with metaphors peculiar to marketing and other capital interests. Our discussions of important topics and concepts can't help, at times, to be imbued with the sorts of metaphors that appear in our common vernacular. In our culture, we tend to draw from the same well of expressions. Mis-understanding takes hold when the expressions I use have slightly different referents than what my interlocutors have in mind. This is why I said, or I think I said earlier, that human language meant to treat mutual understanding of universal truths is itself inherently unstable or imprecise.

[Asshat]

I sure wasn't "offended" by the terminology, only the insistance upon the verbose explanation of something we all live with. Perhaps I haven't seen enough Christian salespersons yet.

Then again, I was never into joining fan clubs...theological or otherwise. Real life sort of gets in the way.

[Isaak Brodsky]

... only the insistance upon the verbose explanation of something we all live with. ...

Then again, I was never into joining fan clubs...theological or otherwise. Real life sort of gets in the way.

Would you kindly clarify what you mean precisely by only the insistance? Who, in your experience, has done or is doing the insisting? And, what is meant by the verbose explanation of something we all live with?
What is the something here you reference that is verbose? If you say explanation, then the explanation of what?

My impression so far in a number of the threads that you seem to swoop in on and throw a wet blanket over with contemptuous, condescending lines like, Real life sort of gets in the way, is that you don't much care to take up reasoned discussions. What is your purpose, here, beyond weighing in with vague quipps.

[Asshat]

What is your purpose, here, beyond weighing in with vague quipps.

My purpose here is entertainment.

As far as the wet blanket comment, I have posted numerous times with specific comment.

My comments in this thread were also specific. The fact that they were my own comments should support the fact that I intended more than merely a vague quip.

I apologize to everyone for my sarcastic comments. I will endevour to take the necessary steps to not be so offensive.

[brs3842]

Going back to the root question, "what is a personal relationship with Jesus". This is a tough question to answer. If I have never been to combat in Fallujah, but I ask someone who has been there, they can tell me all about it, but I still can't fully grasp it. A personal relationship is indescribable. It's not something that you can "try" and get a refund if it doesnt work. It is something you have to do, fully committed.

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart; do not depend on your own understanding. Seek his will in all you do, and he will show you which path to take."
Proverbs 3:5-6

This verse says "IN ALL YOU DO". It is not something you can try, nibble around the sides with. Me personally, I think that this is one reason that a lot of people "find God" during times of tragedy. Someone stated that people always look for the relationship when trouble comes. Think about that time when you hit a wall, you couldn't go any farther, nowhere to turn. When people get to this point, they can turn to something, and give everything they have. God is there to accept us. God uses very unusual situations to bring people where they are, in life, and in their relationship with Him. So basically, to sum it up, unless you have everything to put into it, everything to give to Him, turn everything over, our sinful lives, desires, and when we WANT to change, not forced to change, this is when the Lord can work miracles in your heart. Until you reach that point, the concept of a personal relationship, built on faith, is going to be unfathomable to you. It was to me until I was saved. The Bible tells us this.

"He(Jesus) told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that, "they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!"

Jesus is basically saying that "outsiders", or non-believers, will not perceive or understand these concepts. If they did understand and perceive, they would turn from their ways, be forgiven, and be saved.

I hope this helps answer your question.

[Blues]

In my experience, an honest dialog between Christians and atheists are far and few in-between. Most of them seem to just want to further cement what they already know rather than learning something new. It usually ends up with the atheist antagonizing the Christian. Religulous is an example of bating and attacking. In essence, they are in a way, preaching atheism.

Note: This is not my opinion of all atheists. Some of them are giving the name a bad rap. Whiny atheists are just as bad as fundamental Christians.

In my opinion, preaching just needs to stay out of the way in most situations. Every modern country has a means of finding a religion. The only place I can see it being needed are third world countries. All it takes nowadays is to turn on the tv on sunday and church is in your home.

[brs3842]

This is why the way I think about it is "Relationship, not Religion". The word religion has been misinterpreted so many ways, in the sense of Christianity. You don't get to heaven by religion. Jesus didn't even agree with some of the "Religious Leaders" of His time. Christianity needs to be focused on Jesus. A relationship with the one and only savior of the world, who died for all sins. Not the religious controversies it brings. I don't know if that makes sense, but I hope you get the picture.

[Muku]

http://images.epilogue.net/users/jhoneil/necromancer.jpg

[Jazz]

ok so i was really debating posting what i thougth or not. Religion is always a touchy subject and seeing how i am a non believer in anything of the sort my opinion often offend people. so i replied to this via PM...and he wanted me to post my reply here lol...
so here goes. this was my PM to the prosecutor


"well I couldn't just post what i was thinking withough insulting people and well.. I don't want to insult anyone.
But what i think comes down to this (hope it don't offend you lol..)
Know how kids get lonely? Know how they often create imaginary friends? Know how they can really believe plush toys can talk?
well
I don't believe in god or an after life. I pretty much believe in nothing.
What i think is this
people who believe strongly in something
or someone,
Like jesus or god. and talk to them everyday. Pray to them. Ask for guidance. all that. everyday. Believe strongly that what ever happends, is in jesus's hands. that their futur is already set. that everything happends for a reason, and that Jesus is really there, everyday, listening to them.
well.. it becomes as much real to them, as an imaginary friend to a child.
My best friend is christian and more into it then the avrage person, and she describs it as a direct link to jesus. not just a name in text...
I honestly cannot understand it other then its all in their heads...
I don't mean they are insane...but prolly overly lonely...idk... this is what i think and hope it don't offend you lol I just couldn't post that withough prolly creating some kind of debate and being told off
I've had it happend before lol."

I really don't want to be fighting over if god is real or not. If people can feel something more, feel theres a god or what ever, i'm really happy for you. but to the point of saying you're connected and he listens to each and every one of us, and we can all have a relationship with someone, to the same being. Idk. to me its far fetch. and besides... I don't know much about religion really. I never really was interrested in it. but i was always under the impression, atless with christian and the bibble and all that story that... Jesus was only doing the miracles he was doing so we would open our eyes and believe in god, and see how good he is. not how good jesus is. I will never understand why people pray to jesus instead of god. Or to his mother, but not the man who raised him. sure she gave birth to jesus...but she was not any more special then her husband... now i'm sure i'm prolly missing stuff about her history but somehow i don't really care what she did that made her worthy of being prayed to. And I'm not saying praying is a waste of time.
I respect people who believe in something greater them themselves.
once one of my friend was in hospital and she was in grave danger of diying. I was still in school then, and i saw one of my teachers to explain to them that i was not gonna be coming to classes that i'd be in hospital with her. and the teacher god this idea that i should call this church in a city next to the one i live in, the only have err...(gah whats the english words....) sisters that don't go out >.> sorry lack the correct term.. ya know thoses that arent allowed contact with the outside of the church.. anyway she said that i should call them and ask them to pray for my friend. i was not so into it but i took in concideration seeing how my friend does believe in god and all that. so i called. and talked to one of them, told them of my friend, and the lady told me "You're in luck today... this week is the (ack more english missing lol...) celebration (that should be ok a term..) of sister "blablabla" (what ever her name was) who was the founder of the church and we pray extra long in theses time to thank her and ask her for more guidance" and stuch... and that she would ask them all to pray for my friend. so i had about 100 woman praying for my friend. I told her this and she was really happy.
I don't think about this much. She did get better, Could be she got lucky. could be the doctors did a good job. Could be she had help from beyond. what ever.
Believing in something is great. But idk how healthy it can be to think you got a relation with someone who's long gone and (in my opinion) can't hear you.
now i think i talked long enough lol...
I'll be quiet now >.>

For a woman (seemingly) who is speaking English as a language after her first (seemingly), you sure did speak to me more than most.

[Jazz]

I value words, and I value their common usage when they are used in every day speech. However, I find it strange when Christians say that one can, and they indeed do have a personal relationship with Jesus.

What does that mean?

I have personal relationships, and that means we go to movies together, call each other up, talk to one another, go on vacation together, have fights from time to time etc...

I also have an internal voice that is a dialogue, but I don't confuse that for an invisible person, even if I do hear it say, "Dude, it is late. Get to sleep or you will regret it." It is just me talking to myself and that is all.

I think Christians confuse their internal dialogue with themselves as a personal relationship with Jesus.

i'm just quoting and replying to this because it really pulled some strings, especially in my inebriated state. And my reply is that, damn, I wish I could reply to this in a coherent, and intellectual manner. Of course, when and if I did/do it probably won't lead anywhere productive so........ I'll leave it to y'all to battle out........and probably won't even take the time to read anything more than the OP and first reply in this thread. GOD bless y'all........