Independence Day flag incident irritates university president

[JUNewsBot]

JUNewsBot Has Just Posted the Following:

An associate professor and ten students at Okinawa International University marred American 4th of July celebrations by hanging an American flag upside down from a school balcony.The move by Peter Sympthon and ten of his students brought criticism from the Okinawa International University president and other faculty members, who ordered the offending flag removed from the laboratory building 4th floor balcony.

Click here to view the article. (http://www.japanupdate.com/?id=7708)

Feel free to hold a discussion regarding this article here.

[Steven]

Peter Sympthon is an imbecile. The US Flag is ONLY flown upside down as a signal of IMMEDIATE distress, not to make some asinine statement.

He needs to use some of those brain cells that landed him his job as a professor and realize that helicopters, airplanes, cars, trains, ships, and any conveyance built by man is susceptible to accidents.

Also, this person talks about freedom of speech like it gives him the right to do or say whatever he pleases. Maybe that is how it is in England, but not American or Japan.

I hope that enough people complain and this jerk gets his papers handed to him.

Get a life, professor, a real life.

[dk]

The flag was removed by Sympthon, who said he was displeased at being ordered to do so. “I just expressed our spirits about how much we are against Futenma Air Station, which poses a grave danger to near-by communities. I don’t think I humiliated Americans.” He and the students hung the Stars & Stripes upside down from a balcony facing the U.S. airfield, to protest the U.S. Marine Corps helicopter crash nearly three years ago.
One crash, three years ago. No one died. Hardly a grave danger.

“Can we not express our SOS sign to America?” he asked. “Since the helicopter crash, three years have gone by and nothing is changing.

What he means to say is that since the crash, three years have gone by and nothing HE HAS NOTICED has changed. He's not actually "in the loop" so how would he know one way or the other?

Sympthon says he’ll appeal to the university, seeking approval to display the flag in the future. If his request to fly the American flag upside down is disapproved, he promises to turn to the general public for support.
Okinawans won't care one way or the other. And he won't get any support from the bases. So... go ahead?

[soldave]

If it's "ONLY flown upside down as a signal of IMMEDIATE distress", then I really don't see what the problem is here.

[DoctorP]

The flag itself is not a problem...the nutcase professor is the problem!

[soldave]

So his views are a little skewed. If that's affecting his ability to educate his students then it's an issue that should be looked at.

If not, I would say he's entitled to whatever strange opinions he has. But each to their own (freedom of speech & rights) :)

[DoctorP]

So his views are a little skewed. If that's affecting his ability to educate his students then it's an issue that should be looked at.

If not, I would say he's entitled to whatever strange opinions he has. But each to their own (freedom of speech & rights) :)


Yes you are right...in America. Last time I checked he wasn't in America though. But to be honest, I really don't care. It is a flag...not a human life.

[Isaak Brodsky]

Steven, your response to Sympthon’s (a.k.a. Simpson) imbecilic actions suggests at least a few things: (a) you likely don’t know much about the history of this base, how the land to create it was seized from the local people through a terrorist campaign of bayonets and bulldozers waged by American troops during WWII; (b) you likely don’t know much about symbolism, how flags, for example, flown upside down can stir patriotic automatons such as yourself to hastily attack someone for expressing his full constitutional right to express his resistance to a military base that represents a danger to local citizens (not to mention an unsightly annoyance); (c) you likely don’t know much about the humour of contradiction, how your own words, “…this person talks about freedom of speech like it gives him the right to do or say whatever he please” represent the best oxymoron I’ve yet seen on this topic.

Now, you might say that Okinawans should be happy that the US military is here flying their necessary training missions over our heads to prepare for some impending war with whomever, but the fact remains that aircraft do fall out of the sky. A simple search of the US military’s training accidents in the past five years alone will reveal just how much danger the machines of war represent to civilian populations in close proximity to military members on manoeuvres. How can you or anyone else possibly defend reasonably the continued operation of aircraft out of Futenma when the base is entirely surrounded by communities made up of real people with real lives who go to real jobs and schools and churches and hospitals? Even the Marine Corps operating in stateside facilities abide by their operating procedures and fly only within strict limited corridors over unpopulated areas because of the danger that aircraft represent.

Lastly, the comment of yours I’d quoted earlier seems to suggest that you really don’t know much about the history of free speech and popular American resistance aimed at oppressive, authoritarian, autocratic regimes with unreasonable and/or unbearable public and/or foreign policies.

The passionate hasty generalizations such as yours and some others in this forum illustrate how little reading you do and how much can be gained by thinking freely instead following blindly.

[Boost]

how the land to create it was seized from the local people through a terrorist campaign of bayonets and bulldozers waged by American troops during WWII;

But not before the Japanese military took it from the locals first, or are we just going to leave that part out?

And I would hardly call it a "terrorist campaign," though as dk's favorite quote goes, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

[TheNoNamedOne]

The US Flag is ONLY flown upside down as a signal of IMMEDIATE distress,...

My perspective is that the civilian communties that are flown above are in constant risk of harm. A symbolic SOS is quite appropriate. And, flags can be handled anyway they like in making a statement. That is apparant.

...not to make some asinine statement.

Why, because it bothers you and you have some particular sentimental feeling to a cloth? Would you feel the same way about someone hanging a Nazi flag upside down? I wouldn't, but then I am not letting my prejudices get in the way of reason.

It was statement that was far from being inherently asinine. Just one from your perspective.

[Isaak Brodsky]

Dear Boost,
You'll need to do a bit more research. A number of small communities were razed to the ground by the US military to make way for what is now called Futenma Air Station. Check the maps and the overhead imagery before, during and after. It's all on hand at the Ginowan City archives.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Yes, Ian. And I think they used to have a set of photos in the lobby area of before and after communities that were and were no longer concerning Futenma Air Station. Maybe you are referring to those same pics.

[Isaak Brodsky]

Yes. I'm referencing the mosaic-ed photos on display as well as others published in studies of community development since WWII on hand at the library at Ryudai.

Other issues, of course, that no one has raised are the very names of individuals cited in the Japan Update article that so many folks have so far responded to with knee-jerk reactions. The academic cited in the article as "Sympthon" is a laughable mis-spelling, suggesting that no one has actually checked the facts of what really happened on campus that day. The quotes attributed to him by Japan Update rise to the level of yellow journalism. Were the Update seen as a serious outlet of news and information, Simpson would likely have a liable case against its editors. Just putting that out there for anyone to mull over.

[TheNoNamedOne]

I am wondering if JU is using a Jpn-Eng translater application. I suspect so, because I don't think they have enough staff to be translating stories every day from the Jpn papers. Also, I notice that JU doesn't cite their source where they got the story from i.e. Ryukyu Shimpo, Okinawa Times, Kyodo etc... and I know they do not have beat journalists running these news items down themselves.

But, why not just cite the original source? That is journalistic courtesy amongst newpapers.

[Isaak Brodsky]

Excellent question. It is a mystery why the Update’s editor would let such inconsistencies fly.

The broader question, nevertheless, remains open to inquiry. Why has the Japanese press tried to mollify any dissenting voices expressing outrage over the unresolved Futenma issue? Seems everyone who has an opinion on Simpson’s demonstration has ignored or forgotten Bill Clinton’s promise during the summit here to get rid of Futenma in rather short order.

[TheNoNamedOne]

The broader question, nevertheless, remains open to inquiry. Why has the Japanese press tried to mollify any dissenting voices expressing outrage over the unresolved Futenma issue?

I think it is due to those papers being in Mainland Japan. The editors of those papers often write editorials saying how vital it is that the U.S. remain in Okinawa, citing strong opposition from Mainland communities of any notion of moving them there.

Seems everyone who has an opinion on Simpson’s demonstration has ignored or forgotten Bill Clinton’s promise during the summit here to get rid of Futenma in rather short order.

Agreed, and Sympson's stunt is merely a way to bring the issue back to the fore, and it should be. I mean, there are helicopters flying right over pre-schools practicing hop take offs and landings, drowning out a lot of sound that in daily lives, education, and business transactions. Besides the safety issue, it is a real nusance.

In the U.S. and Europe campuses are usually hotbeds for activism as yuong people tend to want to act on their idealism. In Japan, however, activism at the University level is pretty weak. I imagine that Sympson's students really respect him and his views to support him and agree to participate in his activism.

Usually it is frowned upon for faculty to join in and lead activism, but it is not necessarily wrong or prohibited at many places. I imagine that the university here has only had to deal with a passive faculty and student body all these years so they have never drawn up any guidelines about it to be issued to professors.

[Isaak Brodsky]

Boost's signature tag featuring a quote from Kierkegaard appears to betray Boost's own remarks.

As “Boost” noted much earlier, and quite incorrectly, “But not before the Japanese military took it from the locals first, or are we just going to leave that part out?” This obvious mangling—indeed re-construction—of history illustrates how so many concerned Americans serving here have no idea what the recent history of Okinawa actually is.

Much like the inability or unwillingness of contemporary Japan to observe in its own history texts the details of imperial Japan’s wartime indiscretions, there seems to be a tacit willingness or perhaps an explicit desire to blur the events of what really happened.

Ejecting wartime foes from this island is one thing, but launching on the local population your own campaign of aggression to merely secure land for an impending airstrip is quite another. Of course, it is only natural that a foreign military force as mighty as the present one occupying this land would want to gloss over facts about its own wartime past here. A vague notion of historical facts serves to perpetuate the level of arrogance that some of these other respondents have offered up.

If Americans serving on this island really want to be good neighbors, the ignorant among them would be well served to learn just a bit more about America’s own dubious campaigns. Leveling communities however small in seemingly insignificant and driving their citizens away is not at all in keeping with the ethos of a liberating force.

Blurred facts are perhaps the most convenient way for both seats of power in Tokyo and Washington to maintain the status quo here.

[Boost]

Ian,

You flatter me with your targeted response. Whatever I have posted, whether it be in this thread or others, that has ticked you off enough to target me in a second post, even though I did not reply to your first, then I am quite satisfied with myself.

Have a spectacular day.

[Boost]

On a side note Ian, did you come here to actually share with us your "infinite wisdom" on these topics or just to criticize other posters?

[Bones]

Perhaps the people responsible for flying the flag inverted, was an attempt by the students to show that our current policies are failing.

T.P., in his infinite wisdom, made the poor mistake of using the "Nazi" flag flying other than intended. It looks the same, no matter which way you hang it.

And while Ian has made some good arguments, he fails to grasp reality.

The Okinawans' , at least the ones that I've had the pleasure of meeting, would rather be living under American rule, than Japanese. Too many taxes, too many minor issues that are to be decided currently, too much of this, or that....

They just want their lives back.

NBTP

[TheNoNamedOne]

On a side note Ian, did you come here to actually share with us your "infinite wisdom" on these topics or just to criticize other posters?

Boost, everything Ian has said is true. And you are a prime example of not understanding the history of Futenma and therefore perpetuate innacurate -- if not down right false notions.

There is nothing wrong with Ian addressing you pointedly whether or not you have addressed him. Why don't you respond to his points rather than trying to escape them by just addressing his addressing to you?

A simple retraction would be fine, too. If one cannot do that, then it is known on forum boards that to somewhat accept a point of view without fully conceding is done with a "fair enough." Why don't you try and muster doing that if you can't lay to rest his remarks?

[Boost]

Boost, everything Ian has said is true. And you are a prime example of not understanding the history of Futenma and therefore perpetuate innacurate -- if not down right false notions.


Fair enough :) Though perhaps he could share some of his knowledge on the subject rather than make belittling comments?

And my comment, correct or not, was not specifically about Futenma but rather Okinawa as a whole.

[Isaak Brodsky]

Dear Boost, many thanks for the back-handed compliment.

My knowledge of the issue of Futenma is hardly infinite but a bit more informed by years of research. If you're going to attack a person for simply citing facts and attempting to set the record straight, what is the use of carrying on a dialogue in this public forum?

Nevertheless, what're at issue are the real problems that Futenma represents to the local community here. Beyond the methods by which land was appropriated to construct the base, other issues loom.

Why should college professors, people charged with the duty of encouraging citizens (their students) to think critically about vital issues, be targets of unwarranted and irrational attacks such as those in this forum? A university education entails both knowledge and critical thought.

Even today in times of great prosperity, an informed citizenry remains pivotal to the success of any representative democracy. A flag turned on its head harms no one yet does the job of calling some much-needed attention to more pressing issues.

[Boost]

If you're going to attack a person for simply citing facts and attempting to set the record straight, what is the use of carrying on a dialogue?


I believe the previous posts would show you "attacked" first, but that is irrelevant now.

The use of carrying on the dialogs would be to inform me on the topic, though you have elected to resort to insults instead. I would be willing to read about the history of the air base if you were willing to share in a civil manner. I didn't turn up any informative links with a web search though perhaps "The history of Futenma" wasn't specific enough.

P.S. I am not a service member, but that was a wonderful generalization.

[TheNoNamedOne]

I would be willing to read about the history of the air base if you were willing to share in a civil manner. I didn't turn up any informative links with a web search though perhaps "The history of Futenma" wasn't specific enough.

Boost, here is something to show that Futenma AB was not taken over from the Japanese in its present form. While this doesn't say anything about civilian displacement for the construction of the base (and there are sources that do, just couldn't track them down), just knowing that it is in the center of Ginowan it is obvious that civilians had to be displaced for such a large project -- if not from its original form, then through enlargement of it after the war and into the 50s and 60s as some of the transport planes of the Marine Corpes using it got larger and larger.

Marine Corps Air Station (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/futenma.htm), Futenma began in 1945 as a bomber base. Construction of hangars and barracks began in 1958. The airfield was commissioned as a "Marine Corps Air Facility" in 1960 and became an Air Station in 1976.

[Boost]

In relation to the displacement of Okinawans in WWII, did not the Japanese army arrive first and started displacing Okinawans in anticipation of a U.S. invasion?

Again I am meaning Okinawa as a whole, not just the area where Futenma is located.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Yes, Boost. In many cases that is correct.

I guess that was considered something akin to our imminent domain laws -- if it is better for the community or nation, the government can take it from you.

[Boost]

Yes, Boost. In many cases that is correct.

That is what I had thought when I originally replied to Ian about "not before the Japanese took it first," and meant with that statement.

imminent domain laws -- if it is better for the community or nation, the government can take it from you.

I have qualms with those laws. But that would be best saved for a new thread.

[Isaak Brodsky]

George Fifer's article published in World Policy Journal offers a really nice backdrop of Okinawa's modern-day problems.

The style he uses is also very clear.

http://www.worldpolicy.org/journal/feifer.html

Cheers.

[Boost]

George Fifer's article published in World Policy Journal offers a really nice backdrop of Okinawa's modern-day problems.

The style he uses is also very clear.

http://www.worldpolicy.org/journal/feifer.html

Cheers.

Thank you Ian, have only read a few paragraphs so far but Mr. Fifer does have a great writing style.

[thistle]

Thanks for the link, just read half of it, really well written, I like his style too.

I really need to go back and study the history of Okinawa some more myself,after living here for so long.

[Boost]

Thanks for the link, just read half of it, really well written, I like his style too.

I really need to go back and study the history of Okinawa some more myself,after living here for so long.

Almost half way through also, but being it is going on 22:30 here and I have a 5 AM alarm clock just waiting to ruin my morning, I should probably save the rest for tomorrow.

Probably being the operative word :)

[Isaak Brodsky]

If anyone has perceived my responses as personal attacks, I apologise.

I find it frustrating, though, that the Update would actually publish an article laced with so many distortions and manufactured truths. The subsequent series of knee-jerk patriotic responses trotted out by some of the participants further fueled frustrations to separate Simpson's act from the intended meaning behind it.

It would be a fantastic step forward for local journalism if the Update would come forward and correct its errors and actually seek firsthand accounts of what actually went down and why.

What do you think?

[TheNoNamedOne]

If anyone has perceived my responses as personal attacks, I apologise.

...

The subsequent series of knee-jerk patriotic responses trotted out by some of the participants further fueled frustrations to separate Simpson's act from the intended meaning behind it. ...

What do you think?

I didn't see any personal attacks. No need for an apology, Ian.

I think the intended meaning of Simpson's acts were quite clear from the act itself and does serve a purpose. Pride and patriotism sure can cause people to not catch the meaning or see value in it.

I am curious as to the development of this story within the university. Is Simpson still persuing an apology from the Uni Pres and trying to get it so he and his students can exercise freedom of expression by displaying it upside down? or has he let the issue go away?

[Boost]

so he and his students can exercise freedom of expression by displaying it upside down?

Would not a sign worked just as well? Why does his freedom of expression have to involve showing disrespect to a nation's flag?

[TheNoNamedOne]

Would not a sign worked just as well?

I doubt a sign would have worked just as well, because drawing media attention was also a major goal. Their choice of how to grab that attention was successful. It proved quite effective.

Since a flag is looked upon emotionally it is quite right to assume that it will draw more attention than a few words written on a sign.

Why does his freedom of expression have to involve showing disrespect to a nation's flag?

Nothing "have to" about it. Just a choice of many choices.

[okisteve]

I doubt a sign would have worked just as well, because drawing media attention was also a major goal. Their choice of how to grab that attention was successful. It proved quite effective.

Since a flag is looked upon emotionally it is quite right to assume that it will draw more attention than a few words written on a sign.

Nothing "have to" about it. Just a choice of many choices.

Wow, talk about bumping up a dead thread. Actually I was hoping to find that original discussion because that incident came up recently in an offline discussion.

I respect our flag when it flown as a symbol of American justice and freedom, not of power. I especially like the stripes. The stars are like notches on a stick, symbolic of, well, ask some native Americans or Spaniards how pleased they are that their territories became states... Within my own lifetime, star #49 (Hawaii) was added and is an example of American imperialism that I don't especially like to be reminded of.

[Boost]

I doubt a sign would have worked just as well, because drawing media attention was also a major goal. Their choice of how to grab that attention was successful. It proved quite effective.

Since a flag is looked upon emotionally it is quite right to assume that it will draw more attention than a few words written on a sign.
You are probably...well no doubt correct that a sign wouldn't have gained as much attention. I guess even though I wouldn't consider myself the most patriotic person in the world, I take offense at such things being I am by birth American, and it seemed like a gesture to slap all Americans in the face regardless of their positions.

[RChan]

Steven, your response to Sympthon’s (a.k.a. Simpson) imbecilic actions suggests at least a few things: (a) you likely don’t know much about the history of this base, how the land to create it was seized from the local people through a terrorist campaign of bayonets and bulldozers waged by American troops during WWII; (b) you likely don’t know much about symbolism, how flags, for example, flown upside down can stir patriotic automatons such as yourself to hastily attack someone for expressing his full constitutional right to express his resistance to a military base that represents a danger to local citizens (not to mention an unsightly annoyance); (c) you likely don’t know much about the humour of contradiction, how your own words, “…this person talks about freedom of speech like it gives him the right to do or say whatever he please” represent the best oxymoron I’ve yet seen on this topic.

Now, you might say that Okinawans should be happy that the US military is here flying their necessary training missions over our heads to prepare for some impending war with whomever, but the fact remains that aircraft do fall out of the sky. A simple search of the US military’s training accidents in the past five years alone will reveal just how much danger the machines of war represent to civilian populations in close proximity to military members on manoeuvres. How can you or anyone else possibly defend reasonably the continued operation of aircraft out of Futenma when the base is entirely surrounded by communities made up of real people with real lives who go to real jobs and schools and churches and hospitals? Even the Marine Corps operating in stateside facilities abide by their operating procedures and fly only within strict limited corridors over unpopulated areas because of the danger that aircraft represent.

Lastly, the comment of yours I’d quoted earlier seems to suggest that you really don’t know much about the history of free speech and popular American resistance aimed at oppressive, authoritarian, autocratic regimes with unreasonable and/or unbearable public and/or foreign policies.

The passionate hasty generalizations such as yours and some others in this forum illustrate how little reading you do and how much can be gained by thinking freely instead following blindly.



When you said terrorist campaign you lost creditablity. If your going to respond wih some google babble then I might inform you I know alot about Okinawan culture as a tour guide here.

[VWBOYAF1]

Happy 4th of July! Oh wait a minute, I had to check the calender there. I really don't care if an Okinawan professor flies the flag upside down. Its the crazy professors in the states that I'm worried about.

I had a bunch of radical teachers while I was in high school. I went to school in Brattleboro, VT. If anybody knows anything about that place, it that it is more liberal than San Fran. Anyway their antics indirectly convinced me to join the military and later become a republican. Hopefully that is how some of these college students will react to the radical professor's behavior.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

OMG! This is gonna be so exciting!! A tour guide is going to educate the professor...

[dk]

Man, what in the world. I'm starting to really enjoy reading Eel's posts...

[Boost]

OMG! This is gonna be so exciting!! A tour guide is going to educate the professor...

*Popping some popcorn, and grabbing a drink*

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

http://fc03.deviantart.com/fs5/i/2004/305/4/6/Dick_Cheney_by_snowpiece.jpg

[Boost]

No thanks, he's not my "type".

[DoctorP]

TP...you are so wrong bringing this thread back just so Yankeegrl would have a place to vent.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Not the same as Peter Simpson doing it from his classroom window in view of Futenma AB, but still good for piquing thought on why an upside down U.S. flag in Okinawa is symbolically appropriate.

http://www.flagsbay.com/flag/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/peteruhlendorfprotestflag.jpg

[Crazysix]

Not the same as Peter Simpson doing it from his classroom window in view of Futenma AB, but still good for piquing thought on why an upside down U.S. flag in Okinawa is symbolically appropriate.

http://www.flagsbay.com/flag/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/peteruhlendorfprotestflag.jpg
If im not mistaken doesn't the upside flag mean SOS or an international distress call. OKINAWA aint in trouble:scratchchin:

[uriel]

Unfortunately, it depends on from whose point of view you are looking at it from.

[soldave]

If im not mistaken doesn't the upside flag mean SOS or an international distress call. OKINAWA aint in trouble:scratchchin:

It is indeed. It means the person putting up the flag is requiring assistance and is an internationally recognized distress call.

So unless it's appropriate due to Okinawa being invaded by pachinko parlours or Softbank stores, or I missed the memo saying Okinawa is under attack, then it's merely a feeble attempt to make a statement. Said statement will probably be taken up by the PC-crazy, feminists, anti-war groups, anti-capitalists, Mayday protesters, people who put grafiti on the cenotaph, chess-playing vegans etc, but most educated folks can easily see through it.

[soldave]

Unfortunately, it depends on from whose point of view you are looking at it from.

It will mean he's in distress and requires assistance, won't it?

[uriel]

Not really. I take it as an attempt at sending the message that some Okinawans feel they are in distress because of the US "occupation" of their island. Doesn't mean I agree with it, but I can see why some would feel that way.

[vvloc]

but most educated folks can easily see through it.

Hmmm. here's some educated people who see things differently:

http://www.japanupdate.com/forum/showpost.php?p=121207&postcount=32

[Muku]

Not really. I take it as an attempt at sending the message that some Okinawans feel they are in distress because of the US "occupation" of their island. Doesn't mean I agree with it, but I can see why some would feel that way.
Although I would highly doubt that the Japanese or Okinawan's would have any idea what the symbolism of an upside down flag represents.

[TheNoNamedOne]

...it's merely a feeble attempt to make a statement. Said statement will probably be taken up by the PC-crazy, feminists, anti-war groups, anti-capitalists, Mayday protesters, people who put grafiti on the cenotaph, chess-playing vegans etc, but most educated folks can easily see through it.

I dunno, Soldave... your dismissal sounds all wet.

Mr. Simpson's attempt to make his statement was not feeble because it most certainly did attract the attention of media. That it did not change the status quo is irrelevant.

But, if ya wanna wave the colours of the country that schooled your country 200+ years ago, go at it.

[soldave]

Unfortunately, it depends on from whose point of view you are looking at it from.

I'm sorry. You seem to be a little confused. If what you're saying is that America is a threat, then why would the guy be showing an American flag upside down, which is the sign for distress. Surely it would be the countries that feel threatened and distressed by America that are doing that. Unless, and this is a possibility, that the American flag was the only one the guy had to hand at the time.

file:///C:/WINDOWS/TEMP/moz-screenshot-4.jpgA 2005 BBC poll find that "a plurality of 47% of all respondents viewed u.s. influence in the world as 'mostly negative'"

http://books.google.com/books?id=77L...um=4&ct=result (http://books.google.com/books?id=77LgO2cPfFwC&pg=RA1-PA305&lpg=RA1-PA305&dq=time+poll+us+greatest+threat+to+world+peace&source=web&ots=PYJRMgmMar&sig=SWvztfMmVRE_0Os2aUhymXBGag0&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result)[/url]

Doesn't that mean that 53% didn't view US influence in the world as mostly negative?

And don't trust Europeans: I'm one and we're overrated!

[soldave]

I dunno, Soldave... your dismissal sounds all wet.

Mr. Simpson's attempt to make his statement was not feeble because it most certainly did attract the attention of media. That it did not change the status quo is irrelevant.

But, if ya wanna wave the colours of the country that schooled your country 200+ years ago, go at it.

That's hardly checkmate. Why the "ou" in bold type? I can understand the "u" being in bold as you were making reference to the fact that I'm British, but the "o" in bold type makes it look even more strange

So is anything that gets media attention automatically not feeble? Depends on your perspective I suppose: Jodie Marsh walking around wearing a belt and showing her vertical bacon sandwich to the world isn't what I would call a strong statement, but it was plastered all over the media. And wet would be doing something like claiming you're a vegan, and then eating fries made in animal fat (just an example off the top of my head).

[TheNoNamedOne]

So is anything that gets media attention automatically not feeble?

Not at all. However, you stated it was feeble. What qualifies it as feeble? For the actions of one person and a few students on just a few days that amounted to no more than the energy it took to hang a flag, I think he got a decent amount of coverage for that investment.

How are you measuring it as feeble?

[vvloc]

Doesn't that mean that 53% didn't view US influence in the world as mostly negative?

No, sol, it is not quite as you would wish it to mean, but rather than explain to you the gradations of opinion polls and with your expressed contempt for Europeans, of which you are one; how's about you put this world-wide poll in your pipe and smoke it:

http://www.globescan.com/news_archives/bbcusop/detail.html

[TheNoNamedOne]

Oops, I forgot. Schooled twice (http://www.gazellebookservices.co.uk/Military/originals/Military/19th%20Century/Guide%20Book%20to%20the%20Historic%20Sites%20of%20 the%20War%20of%201812.jpg). Thanks for the favour? -- a lesson in humility?

[uriel]

Although I would highly doubt that the Japanese or Okinawan's would have any idea what the symbolism of an upside down flag represents.

You would be right, but isn't one of the professor's american or something?

[uriel]

I'm sorry. You seem to be a little confused. If what you're saying is that America is a threat, then why would the guy be showing an American flag upside down, which is the sign for distress. Surely it would be the countries that feel threatened and distressed by America that are doing that. Unless, and this is a possibility, that the American flag was the only one the guy had to hand at the time.


I didn't say I believe it, or even think that way. But, seeing how some of the people here react to, and think of us, I can see how they may be led to believe that we are a threat to them.

EDIT: I suck at this multiquoting stuff...

[Crazysix]

Unfortunately, it depends on from whose point of view you are looking at it from.

I guess your right, from my point life is grand, from the okinawa city mayor's point of view, since no companies in her district can win bids for work on base, it maybe semi appropriate

[uriel]

That's what I was originally trying to say. Sometimes the distance from my brain to my fingertips does crazy stuff to my thoughts.

[Oki alumni]

I guess your right, from my point life is grand, from the okinawa city mayor's point of view, since no companies in her district can win bids for work on base, it maybe semi appropriate

C6, you MAY have to change your signature to show the word "F V C K" instead of the ****, LOL. Just trying to be helpful.

-Oki Alumni

[soldave]

Not at all. However, you stated it was feeble. What qualifies it as feeble? For the actions of one person and a few students on just a few days that amounted to no more than the energy it took to hang a flag, I think he got a decent amount of coverage for that investment.

How are you measuring it as feeble?

In the same way you are when you are saying my dismissal was "wet", i.e. in my opinion. Similarly, someone who claims they are a vegan but who eats foods cooked in animal fats would be, in my personal opinion, feeble. Swings & roundabouts.

Oops, I forgot. Schooled twice (http://www.gazellebookservices.co.uk/Military/originals/Military/19th%20Century/Guide%20Book%20to%20the%20Historic%20Sites%20of%20 the%20War%20of%201812.jpg). Thanks for the favour? -- a lesson in humility?

What favour have I done for you, chess boy?

[soldave]

C6, you MAY have to change your signature to show the word "F V C K" instead of the ****, LOL. Just trying to be helpful.

-Oki Alumni

Damn... it's great how vertical bacon sandwich is allowed but saying a word which means fornication in your signature isn't!

[soldave]

I didn't say I believe it, or even think that way. But, seeing how some of the people here react to, and think of us, I can see how they may be led to believe that we are a threat to them.

EDIT: I suck at this multiquoting stuff...

I know. Shame they could only have an American flag to show their distress though. I mean, come on; it's not as if flags from different nationalities aren't available here.

[RenaissanceMan]

Sad story and incident, that it takes a foreigner in Japan to do something like this. Somethings are inevitable, staying in Iraq for at least five more years, the US bases staying in Japan, breathing air... Okinawa should find a way to better coexist with Americans as a whole here on Okinawa, because I can tell you this, the high to do`s of Okinawa are milking the military everyday and creating family empires, while other people just complain about it, pass the complaints on to their kids and the cycle continues from generation to generation. But like I said, find a way to benefit,make it a win win situation. Like in the military, the military is going to get everything they can out of you, so you have to do the same right back to Uncle Sam.

[TheNoNamedOne]

In the same way you are when you are saying my dismissal was "wet", i.e. in my opinion. Similarly, someone who claims they are a vegan but who eats foods cooked in animal fats would be, in my personal opinion, feeble. Swings & roundabouts.

lol. Is that all you have? Yeah, it is true I am not sure at times if some foods are fried in vegetable oil or animal fat oil, and when I do eat out, on those details I do not question the cooks about the oils.

What favour have I done for you, chess boy?

None, diverboy -- the favour was all ours to you in divesting your assets. Of course "you (http://www.intute.ac.uk/sciences/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/uk-ireland.jpg)" is being used in an expanded way -- unless you prefer the lap dog image. Not much honour in the latter, eh?

[Brand_X]

Good teachers dont preach/teach personal opinion to students they teach facts and let the students decide for themselves. He shouldnt be fighting for this the students should. THis is retarded on his part. Schools shouldnt be political platforms for teachers. Students are the only ones who could possible have that right.

What the hell does he teach anyways. Politics? Political science? Chemistry?

[Oki alumni]

Good teachers dont preach/teach personal opinion to students they teach facts and let the students decide for themselves. He shouldnt be fighting for this the students should. THis is retarded on his part. Schools shouldnt be political platforms for teachers. Students are the only ones who could possible have that right.

What the hell does he teach anyways. Politics? Political science? Chemistry?

YESSSSSSSSS! Th' HELL with teaching about freedom and love of country, and respect of others...toss that chit out the window as well!!!!!!!!!! Who needs truth, when you can "gloss over" little facts about WWII?? Op cit "Flannigan brothers circa 1960" regarding other renegade teachings.
-Oki Alumni:old:

[okisteve]

Good teachers dont preach/teach personal opinion to students they teach facts and let the students decide for themselves. He shouldnt be fighting for this the students should. THis is retarded on his part. Schools shouldnt be political platforms for teachers. Students are the only ones who could possible have that right.

What the hell does he teach anyways. Politics? Political science? Chemistry?

Why would anyone go through 20 years of schooling and all the hell that is involved in getting tenure to just teach what is in the textbooks? A good teacher does express opinions and encourages students to formulate and express theirs also. I haven't heard that Dr. Simpson was castigated for forcing any opinions down his students' throats, have you? Universities are not the same thing as military training (just in case that is the major experience you are citing from your life....)

[DoctorP]

Why would anyone go through 20 years of schooling and all the hell that is involved in getting tenure to just teach what is in the textbooks? A good teacher does express opinions and encourages students to formulate and express theirs also. I haven't heard that Dr. Simpson was castigated for forcing any opinions down his students' throats, have you? Universities are not the same thing as military training (just in case that is the major experience you are citing from your life....)

I think he was referring more to teaching opinions. Such as a teacher explaining the increase in gas prices over the past two years, then stating that it was solely due to President Bush, when it was in fact several factors that led to the increase and he may have only been part of it. The teacher should supply the information and allow the student to form his/her own opinion.

[okisteve]

I think he was referring more to teaching opinions. Such as a teacher explaining the increase in gas prices over the past two years, then stating that it was solely due to President Bush, when it was in fact several factors that led to the increase and he may have only been part of it. The teacher should supply the information and allow the student to form his/her own opinion.

Someone's been listening to the Hannity show. (That kid from Tennessee was repeated from yesterday or the day before. I guess they don't get enough smart-sounding callers.) :grin1:

[DoctorP]

Someone's been listening to the Hannity show. (That kid from Tennessee was repeated from yesterday or the day before. I guess they don't get enough smart-sounding callers.) :grin1:

lol...not really listening...but yeah that is where the example came from.

[okisteve]

Not the best example, I'm afraid. First of all, we have only the kids interpretation of what happened in the classroom to go by. Then, there was that ingenious retort by the presenter, something to the effect: "Did the teacher mention that gas was $3.06 a gallon when Nancy Pelosi took over the House?" Doh! What about the rise from $1.25 to $3.06 that happened before that???

I'm not disagreeing with you, but asking the students to figure out for themselves why gas prices are so high based on the "facts" is asking them to do something that legions of professional economists have been unable to do.

Sorry if this makes sense. I'm not drunk.

[Sea Money]

I don't guess you could hang a japanese flag upsidedown could you? What is an upside down dot? still a dot right? dont know why that I think of this crap

[Oki alumni]

I don't guess you could hang a japanese flag upsidedown could you? What is an upside down dot? still a dot right? dont know why that I think of this crap


DAMN...now you went and put an idea in my head.....call the Commanders' "Hot Line"...."Excuse me sir, but I though you'd like to know...somebody apparently, accidentally, hung the Japanese flag UPSIDE DOWN on the base flag-pole this morning!!!" 'click'! WOOT!

-Oki Alumni:old:

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Well, it'd work with the Hinomaru 'classic'...

http://www.japanprobe.com/may06/kimi/imperial_japan.gif

Then again...

[socalheart]

DAMN...now you went and put an idea in my head.....call the Commanders' "Hot Line"...."Excuse me sir, but I though you'd like to know...somebody apparently, accidentally, hung the Japanese flag UPSIDE DOWN on the base flag-pole this morning!!!" 'click'! WOOT!

-Oki Alumni:old:

Ohmigawd that's hilarious! What a great idea! :grin1:

[Steven]

JUNewsBot Has Just Posted the Following:

An associate professor and ten students at Okinawa International University marred American 4th of July celebrations by hanging an American flag upside down from a school balcony.The move by Peter Sympthon and ten of his students brought criticism from the Okinawa International University president and other faculty members, who ordered the offending flag removed from the laboratory building 4th floor balcony.

Click here to view the article. (http://www.japanupdate.com/?id=7708)

Feel free to hold a discussion regarding this article here.

Didn't that jacka$$ pull that stunt a few years ago?

[DougP]

You mean last year? Possibly. I would imagine that's why this thread is from last year.:D

Wait a second... weren't you the first one to reply to this thread?

[Muku]

You mean last year? Possibly. I would imagine that's why this thread is from last year.:D

Wait a second... weren't you the first one to reply to this thread?


:scratchchin: I see some people read the thread from the begining:p

[Fire4Effect]

If he is not an American citizen then American Constitutional rights do not apply to him. He's just mad because it was his country that got punked. He's got the brains to realize that his country was once a great empire, but now they are not even an ally, but merely a pawn of the foreign policy of the upstart country that put them in their place. But, I must say, the best thing about England is, their flag makes awesome toilet paper...

[Oki alumni]

If he is not an American citizen then American Constitutional rights do not apply to him. He's just mad because it was his country that got punked. He's got the brains to realize that his country was once a great empire, but now they are not even an ally, but merely a pawn of the foreign policy of the upstart country that put them in their place. But, I must say, the best thing about England is, their flag makes awesome toilet paper...

Personally I think that the rolls with pics of Crush Limburger (Brown Monotone) are better...even if they ARE a bit "slick".

-Oki Alumni

YLLYGAF:scared:

[Old Timer]

The limey needs his nuts crushed. I will give an American the benefit of the doubt. Not that worthless F*&k. :old:

[Oki alumni]

:scratchchin: I see some people read the thread from the begining:p

Double-click for FULL view:
688


-Oki Alumni:old:

[Sal_71-80]

My perspective is that the civilian communties that are flown above are in constant risk of harm. A symbolic SOS is quite appropriate. And, flags can be handled anyway they like in making a statement. That is apparant.

At what rate are they in greater danger than being overflown by commercial aircraft?
Got any numbers to support that?

So, what's the SOS for?
Did you not just read that the plane crash under discussion here occurred three years ago and there was no loss of life?

Why didn't this pinhead fly a Union Jack upside down then?

[Maggie]

Peter Sympthon is an imbecile. The US Flag is ONLY flown upside down as a signal of IMMEDIATE distress, not to make some asinine statement.

He needs to use some of those brain cells that landed him his job as a professor and realize that helicopters, airplanes, cars, trains, ships, and any conveyance built by man is susceptible to accidents.

Also, this person talks about freedom of speech like it gives him the right to do or say whatever he pleases. Maybe that is how it is in England, but not American or Japan.

I hope that enough people complain and this jerk gets his papers handed to him.

Get a life, professor, a real life.

Is he English???

We don't want him if he is. He's lucky he's over there.

He'd get the s**t kicked out of him for a stunt like that here.


Maggie

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

So Mags, you advocate violence as a solution to situations and statements you don't like or agree with?

[okisteve]

Sometimes crime doesn't pay:

An upside-down Union Jack is not sufficiently different from a right side-up Union Jack to be useful as a signal of anything except that the person hoisting it wasn't paying attention.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

This one'll work for the locals...

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h214/bakedspam/japanese_flag1.jpg

[jrademacher]

well freedom of speech laws are different in Japan. Just because you can doesn't mean you should and if you are dumb enough to do so you might get some "motivation" from an outside "source" to cease and desist.

[P_chan]

well freedom of speech laws are different in Japan. Just because you can doesn't mean you should and if you are dumb enough to do so you might get some "motivation" from an outside "source" to cease and desist.

So you suggest threating violence against someone who speaks their mind about the american government, or any other government for that matter? I didn't know there was a US branch of the gestapo.