think about what you say.. read Ryukuy Shimpo

[acidcrash]

Just as a little heads up....
I read an article in the RYUKYU SHIMPO. To basically paraphrase what it said;

The Americans obviously don't get it. All they are concerned about is getting off base to go out to eat.

meaning,we are not taking responsibility and apologizing enmasse for the events that have taken place recently.

http://ryukyushimpo.jp/news/storyid-31868-storytopic-1.html

(you can use google to translate)

That might seem funny to us as Americans, however, it is very serious to Japanese society.

Some people on here are posting some things as hurtful as the mayor of Okinawa City. Remember, do not lower yourself, we are not the only ones who can read English.

On that note, I am very frustrated too. I have been posting with as much fervor as anyone else, but I don't think name calling, and generalizing is going to help much.

[RODSCALIP5]

What exactly do we have to apologize for? The JP's jumping the gun on a "RAPE CASE" or the JP's jumping the gun on a "TRESPASSING CHARGE".........These politicians are a F****n joke, someone hit it right on the head when they said the Politicians will now expect a "Lockdown" for every single incident.

[dweener]

Just as a little heads up....
I read an article in the RYUKYU SHIMPO. To basically paraphrase what it said;

The Americans obviously don't get it. All they are concerned about is getting off base to go out to eat.

meaning,we are not taking responsibility and apologizing enmasse for the events that have taken place recently.

http://ryukyushimpo.jp/news/storyid-31868-storytopic-1.html

(you can use google to translate)

That might seem funny to us as Americans, however, it is very serious to Japanese society.

Some people on here are posting some things as hurtful as the mayor of Okinawa City. Remember, do not lower yourself, we are not the only ones who can read English.

On that note, I am very frustrated too. I have been posting with as much fervor as anyone else, but I don't think name calling, and generalizing is going to help much.

The crazy thing is a lot of people only care because they can not go off base and eat! Are they so wrong to think that? Me, i refuse to apologize....i did nothing, nor will i ever do anything. Nor do i think the military should apologize. The military did not order anyone to do stupid acts, those guys did it on their own.
Plus, if all of these americans are doing bad things, why are they being released?? From what i hear, most facts on these cases have been grossly exaggerated. Is what i am reading wrong?

[Alana]

we as Americans did nothing wrong, we as Americans have no need to apologize. The ones that should be apologizing have in the end had no charges brought against them or already did apologize.

[P_chan]

I think you all just proved his point! Way to go:thumbdown:.

[Fonze]

Just as a little heads up....
I read an article in the RYUKYU SHIMPO. To basically paraphrase what it said;

The Americans obviously don't get it. All they are concerned about is getting off base to go out to eat.

meaning,we are not taking responsibility and apologizing enmasse for the events that have taken place recently.

http://ryukyushimpo.jp/news/storyid-31868-storytopic-1.html

(you can use google to translate)

That might seem funny to us as Americans, however, it is very serious to Japanese society.

Some people on here are posting some things as hurtful as the mayor of Okinawa City. Remember, do not lower yourself, we are not the only ones who can read English.

On that note, I am very frustrated too. I have been posting with as much fervor as anyone else, but I don't think name calling, and generalizing is going to help much.

Yet when all the incidents started you were no were to be found about others generalizing were you? I hope to never lower my standards to the way some of these locals did. What a shame to be Okinawan right now. It will pass but damn does it hurt them as a whole as the allegations hurt us as a whole.

[acidcrash]

Way to fly off the handle..
I was trying to explain a different view. I didn't ask anyone to apologize.
Thats nothing. You should read the blogs on mixi...

Think about a Japanese base in Mississippi. A Japanese soldier is accused of raping a local girl... he would be lucky to survive police custody.

I still have heard NO CREDIBLE evidence that she was or was not raped. I have heard NO CREDIBLE evidence that a drunk Marine did not trespass into an Okinawans house (he would have been shot in the states)

Until I see hard facts I will reserve judgement about the girl being a hooker since she was 12 or that she was really 17, and that the corporal was an invited guest.

But anyway, good job showing your open mindedness in understanding my post. I guess it was just a waste of time typing.

[Nullis_Sum]

Never post when angry. I need sleep.

[trianglechoke]

lets be honest. the locals are just resentful that there is still some semblance of american occupation and they want us out. it's understandable -- it sucks to be a subjugated society. nobody wants to be the loser.

[dweener]

Nullis, who are you responding to? Or, are you responding to everyone???

[Fonze]

Way to fly off the handle..
I was trying to explain a different view. I didn't ask anyone to apologize.
Thats nothing. You should read the blogs on mixi...

Think about a Japanese base in Mississippi. A Japanese soldier is accused of raping a local girl... he would be lucky to survive police custody.

I still have heard NO CREDIBLE evidence that she was or was not raped. .


On the first part I don't want to imagine a JP base in America cause that would mean that The JAPS would have won the WAR. We see how they treated everyone they ever occupied.:thumbdown:. We are here cause they got there asses handled to them. Imagine how the Russians or the Chinese would treat them. I would love the day we leave that China gives Japan a litlle of there own medicine.


On the second part you just don't want to believe it that she was a liar at best and skank at worst. IT THE US MILITARY PROPAGANDA MACHINE RIGHT?:old:

You were right stop posting.

[acidcrash]

I love the Americans who have "Gone Native". You made me sick in Europe, you make me sick here. Since you seem to have forgotten what it is to be American (Heck, Western) let me remind you of the disconnect here:

Japan = The group pays for the wrongs of the individual.
West = The individual pays for his conduct.

Yes, we are being treated like chilren. We are going to VENT. Locals want to see it, please feel free to hop into the forums and read the anger to your hearts content. I could give flying f%ck if the local papers catch wind of it. Really, I don't give a damn. I am not here to impress them. I am here to do my job. I am also not here to impress YOU. You and the other Apologists (Either for the Okinawans/Japanes o the Military command)actually get my dander up more than the Okinawans OR the flippin' 3 star.

Perhaps some cultural awareness on their side as well, but wait! Don'tneed that. WE are the filthy barbarians. I had forgotten...need to find a spot to Kowtow.

Rant over.

#1
#2
#3 no one is asking you to broaden your narrow view of the world. You can still scream America #1 as long as you want.
#4 If you knew the numbers of Okinawans that have been contacting the local media to report fairly you would probably be surprised at the numbers
#5 If you learned a little bit from your time in Europe and Asia, you might understand why things work differently from the USA in the geopolitical arena

And by the way, how have you tried to help resolve the situation? Other than saying everyone else except you sucks?

[acidcrash]

lets be honest. the locals are just resentful that there is still some semblance of american occupation and they want us out. it's understandable -- it sucks to be a subjugated society. nobody wants to be the loser.

Rome could only stay in Briton for so long....

[Sex Wax]

Sorry, I do want some gyros, but I also want to go down to Awase Sports Park with my kids and go surfing, not only eat. Well, some nice live music and beverages would be nice too. And i need to take some fish pics for my art. So, it is not just because i wanna eat that i want to leave the house. Plus, my wife is ready to kill me anyway. :thumbup1:

[Gadget]

I've lived here for almost 15 years now. That doesn't mean I'm not an American anymore. I used to get into "arguements" with my wife and in-laws about the Japanese custom of apologizing. But now they've figured out that we are different, and always will be. Although I've somewhat assimilated into their culture (language, certain customs etc), that doesn't mean I have to give up all of my beliefs cause I live here.

All of the Americans who are stationed here do not need to apologize for the wrongs of a few people. A few people in leadership positions maybe, but everyone? Bu!!sh!t!!!

These people aren't asking everyone in the Japanese Navy to apologize for running over that fishing boat last week. Why do they thing we all need to aplogize for the screw ups of a few people?

As for reflecting???

I'll start doing that when they start reflecting on the real meaning of Pachinko parlors and Snacks...not to mention the soapies and massage parlors...

[Nullis_Sum]

You know, I didn't even stop to think about WHO I was responding to. Probably P_Chan. He was the last one I read before I blew up. Normally I agree with much of whathe says (Anti-racist, anti-group everyone together) but after today, Screw it.

[trianglechoke]

Rome could only stay in Briton for so long....

hah, trust me, if we decided to leave, i would be volunteering as the first person to go!

[acidcrash]

On the second part you just don't want to believe it that she was a liar at best and skank at worst. IT THE US MILITARY PROPAGANDA MACHINE RIGHT?.

No but when you grow up, you learn how to comprehend what you read....
I said I will reserve judgement until I know the facts.

You should try it sometime.:thumbdown:

[Fonze]

These people aren't asking everyone in the Japanese Navy to apologize for running over that fishing boat last week. Why do they thing we all need to aplogize for the screw ups of a few people?.

Okinawans wouldn't dare question there Masters from there north. Remember they chose to live there lives on there knees and bowed down instead of fighting for hundreds of years now. Plus there hand probably came out before anything else.

[Fonze]

No but when you grow up, you learn how to comprehend what you read....
I said I will reserve judgement until I know the facts.

You should try it sometime.:thumbdown:

I do and maybe your saggy wrinkled ass shouldn't be so pompous. Im sure you condemned him when news first broke:thumbdown:. And now your loser ass is trying to take the high road. Facts are facts, you don't release a guilty person.

Why are you still wasting typing time?:thumbdown:

[trianglechoke]

Agreed.

Being a peace loving society is noble if you are capable of threatening your neighbors or exerting your will on others forcibly.

In contrast, claiming moral superiority because you are peace loving -- when in fact you lack any capability except surrender -- is just weakness in a cuter outfit.

Okinawans wouldn't dare question there Masters from there north. Remember they chose to live there lives on there knees and bowed down instead of fighting for hundreds of years now. Plus there hand probably came out before anything else.

[Kye77]

A three year old got the brunt of angry locals!? That's horrible. If only you kept a camera in the car & did some clicking... Harassment is a crime!

Gee, don't you feel like running to a local car & doing the same to their little 3 year olds? The answer is NO, right? These people are just not rational at all!

[dweener]

You know, I didn't even stop to think about WHO I was responding to. Probably P_Chan. He was the last one I read before I blew up. Normally I agree with much of whathe says (Anti-racist, anti-group everyone together) but after today, Screw it.

Aw......that is going to cut down the group hug time considerably.....

[BleuEneG]

[QUOTE=Nullis_Sum;75199]I Since you seem to have forgotten what it is to be American (Heck, Western) let me remind you of the disconnect here:

Japan = The group pays for the wrongs of the individual.
West = The individual pays for his conduct.

While stopped at the intersection (Hamagawa) two men (Young men) walked up to my daughters side of the window. My 3 year old. She smiled and waved at them. They SPIT on my window and yelled at my wife and daughter. My 3 year old was (probably still is) in hysterics. I KNOW these were probably some of those as#holes from mainland. I don't care. My little girls wave at everyone every time we stop at red lights. A 3 year old for f$cks sake. I didn't believe the rumors I have been reading about in here. Figure it was as everyone else said, simply BS. Now, I know some of it isn't. I arrive back on Friday. How in the hell can I explain this away to my daughter? QUOTE]

How do you explain this to your daughter? What you posted yourself should answer that. It was the two individuals who were the assholes who spit and yelled...not the whole of Japan and/or Okinawa. Tell your little girl there are nasty people everywhere and they come from everywhere. If we want others to hold us to the standard you mentioned above, should we not also do the same to them?

I know I would be pissed too but you can turn this into a great opportunity to show your daughter how to rise above other people's hate.

[sweetzen]

...anyway, good job showing your open mindedness in understanding my post. I guess it was just a waste of time typing.

Hardly a waste of time. Fresh input is always rejected before it can be accepted. I think the issue here is that the order was sooooo vague regarding just what it was we were supposed to do during this "period of reflection." Reflect on our role as ambassadors? WTF? How about something more concrete, like, "Reflect on the fact that you will be judged by the actions of your countrymen, and they will be judged by your actions." Or even, "Reflect on the fact that you are not an individual here, you are a subset of a group."

No one even knows exactly what the goal of this "Period of Reflection" is. Is it to keep us safe? Is it to separate us from the locals (a "mourning period")? Is it to show that we can be controlled? Is it to punish the local economy? Some guidelines would be extremely helpful, but we have received none. Absent some kind of information from the leaders who ordered us to do this, we are left to guess at what it all means.

Americans are pragmatists. Give us the information we need to succeed, or we will flounder. Forget abstractions. Forget assumptions that we will somehow "figure it out" (we won't). We are also individualists. We know whether or not we are doing our best, and we rely upon our neighbors to do the same.

All I am saying here is that cultural misunderstanding is a two-way street. I know many of the locals here do not feel safe around us. Heck, when we go back to the States, I tell my daughter, "You're in America now; it's not safe here." But I also know of no one who is more pissed at the people who have been messing this up than the Americans. At this point, I think a lot of people here would be content to tie a rock to their ankles and throw them into the East China Sea.

The problem with Americans failing to see this "period of reflection" in the same light as the Okinawans is that we have different responses to injustice in general. We see it as the misguided actions of a few individuals. They see it as representatives of a group ("the apple doesn't fall far from the tree").

Can we find a common ground? I don't know. But I do know that this "Period of Reflection" has to end... not because it is inconvenient, but because it is ineffective. If Americans here are in permanent lockdown, simply waiting for that statistical "outlier" to screw up (one quarter of one hundredth of a percent), then what is the point? Of course there are going to be problems. That's the nature of the individual.

However, if we have a reasonable plan in place for when these problems occur (and they will), we should be fine... by everyone's standards.

[Tony Stacks]

we are not taking responsibility and apologizing enmasse for the events that have taken place recently.





But the only ones who are responsible and who should be responsible are the people that broke the law. That's it!

[proudtobnotpc]

I guess it was just a waste of time typing.

yeah but thanks for trying.

[P_chan]

You know, I didn't even stop to think about WHO I was responding to. Probably P_Chan. He was the last one I read before I blew up. Normally I agree with much of whathe says (Anti-racist, anti-group everyone together) but after today, Screw it.

What did I do? All I did was say the people who posted immediately after the first post proved his point by flying off the handle in a very stereotypical way!

[DougP]

I do and maybe your saggy wrinkled ass shouldn't be so pompous. Im sure you condemned him when news first broke:thumbdown:. And now your loser ass is trying to take the high road. Facts are facts, you don't release a guilty person.

Why are you still wasting typing time?:thumbdown:

You know the rules. Name calling doesn't fly around here. Its been hard to keep up with as of late with all the posts flying around. Even harder to keep all the new posters in line but you're one of the ancients on this site.

[P_chan]

This is how I interpreted his post. All he asked was for people to step back and take a look at the situation through someone's eyes beside their own. That some people on this forum are getting as bad as the mayor of okinawa city with their comments. Then the first replies he gets are basically "I ain't apologizing for shit!". Hence why I believe he proved his point.

[proudtobnotpc]

This is how I interpreted his post. All he asked was for people to step back and take a look at the situation through someone's eyes beside their own. That some people on this forum are getting as bad as the mayor of okinawa city with their comments. Then the first replies he gets are basically "I ain't apologizing for shit!". Hence why I believe he proved his point.
and why do you feel you need to defend yourself?

[malice6969]

I as well as the next person believe that everyone has the right to their opinion. I cannot say that I agree with the Lockdown because I have family that came here from the States to spend time with me and my family. The lockdown is not an effort to fix the problems that we as SOFA members are facing, it is simply a tool used to for time. Gen. Zilmer and other leaders need time to address these issues that keep arising. Yes we all have rights as U.S. citizens and yes we are adults and have minds of our own.
40,000 American in a country of 1 million is not going to cripple an economy. Smaller businesses might fail but on a larger scale what damage will be done. This lockdown will pass but not without some guidelines. People will be people and their ways will always come to light. Should all be punish because of a few, in the grand scheme of things, no. But history has taught us that this is normal behavior. Should we be chastised as a people by the media and politicians, of course not? No one likes to be called names. What has the entire name calling gotten these Politicians, nothing? The same crimes that are committed by SOFA members are committed by nationals. Do we call them savages?
I am one that did not want to come to this Island because of these same exact reasons. But like someone pointed out, you signed a contract and took an oath. Took an oath to protect and serve your country, not to be called names by hypocrites’. Please don't blame the majority for what a few do. Have you ever considered that most of these crimes are committed by teenagers? By kids that just left home and in a normal society would be partying and drinking. Does that give you the right to call me and my family names? I think not. I believe in treating others like you want to be treated. Just certain situations make you mad and upset, but as a person of leadership you should have more class and dignity. Try using a dictionary!!!

Just my two cents

[P_chan]

and why do you feel you need to defend yourself?

I don't even know anymore!

[dweener]

I think you all just proved his point! Way to go:thumbdown:.

Why is everyone freaking out here? I dont recall anyone attacking the original poster at all....me, i found what he said to be riveting, but i still dont feel like any apologizes are owed. Somewhere in here, people are looking for certain keywords to get angry about, and ignoring context. Thanks for the great post, none of the people in the beginning meant any harm, just responding. P Chan, your words started this whole thing....maybe you should learn to step back and try to understand what others are trying to say instead of assuming....

[Kye77]

Bah, I don't care. I'm still going to grouch about NO yakiniku. So there!

Is it wrong to grouch? No. At our expense, this lockdown was carried out. Whether we agree or disagree is irrelevant. We HAVE to adhere to it. We can bemoan the unfairness of it all, right? We were not the ones who did wrong.

On a hindsight, I do agree that this lockdown was neither a torture nor was it a really big deal. I do think that it may have prevented more incidents with the angry locals. If they had no qualms when it came to victimizing the poor 3 year old in the car, imagine what could happen when an adult gets the brunt of it. You think the adult would quietly take that crap? No, it will be another INCIDENT. These people are not rational! I advise anybody, everybody to not go places alone!

[proudtobnotpc]

I as well as the next person believe that everyone has the right to their opinion. I cannot say that I agree with the Lockdown because I have family that came here from the States to spend time with me and my family. The lockdown is not an effort to fix the problems that we as SOFA members are facing, it is simply a tool used to for time. Gen. Zilmer and other leaders need time to address these issues that keep arising. Yes we all have rights as U.S. citizens and yes we are adults and have minds of our own.
40,000 American in a country of 1 million is not going to cripple an economy. Smaller businesses might fail but on a larger scale what damage will be done. This lockdown will pass but not without some guidelines. People will be people and their ways will always come to light. Should all be punish because of a few, in the grand scheme of things, no. But history has taught us that this is normal behavior. Should we be chastised as a people by the media and politicians, of course not? No one likes to be called names. What has the entire name calling gotten these Politicians, nothing? The same crimes that are committed by SOFA members are committed by nationals. Do we call them savages?
I am one that did not want to come to this Island because of these same exact reasons. But like someone pointed out, you signed a contract and took an oath. Took an oath to protect and serve your country, not to be called names by hypocrites’. Please don't blame the majority for what a few do. Have you ever considered that most of these crimes are committed by teenagers? By kids that just left home and in a normal society would be partying and drinking. Does that give you the right to call me and my family names? I think not. I believe in treating others like you want to be treated. Just certain situations make you mad and upset, but as a person of leadership you should have more class and dignity. Try using a dictionary!!!

Just my two cents

short version please

[proudtobnotpc]

I don't even know anymore!

maybe because you are frustrated like everyone else

[nana24]

Me, i refuse to apologize....i did nothing, nor will i ever do anything. Nor do i think the military should apologize. The military did not order anyone to do stupid acts, those guys did it on their own.

[DoctorP]

Me, i refuse to apologize....i did nothing, nor will i ever do anything. Nor do i think the military should apologize. The military did not order anyone to do stupid acts, those guys did it on their own.

No need to apologize...how about just sympathize a little? The fact that you (or others here) didn't do anything doesn't mean that nothing happened. Okinawan's are seeing it as instead of reflecting or just discussion the incidents and how to prevent future ones, too many people are just worried as to when they can get their next bowl of curry!

Last time I checked most Americans (including myself) could stand to miss a few meals anyway.

[EpicTrainwreck]

I have some sorrow in my heart if for no other reason than because I know what a horrible precedent this whole thing has set. It's sad that my Okinawan neighbors might have another reason to resent me or give me dirty looks when I walk hand-in-hand with my Okinawan wife.

When I'm together with my Okinawan friends, we are not people of different nations-- just people.

I haven't lost sight of that fact that a little girl was violated, someone's home was invaded, and people were put at risk. Could you imagine if that were your daughter? Or your home? Or even the construction office that was broken in to. I spend more time at my office than I do with my family, sadly. It's something of a sanctuary for me. I wouldn't want anyone smashing it up with a metal bar.

People that I have come to care about are facing hard times... bar & restaurant workers. These are not rich people, most of them are just kids who are out on their own for the first time. Hard-working people who are now suffering and trying to make rent.

I like to blame Zilmer as much as anyone else. I think that the lockdown was the wrong way to go. But I don't forget the deplorable actions of my countrymen. So yeah... if it makes any of the folks who were wronged over the course of the last few weeks feel any better about anything... I'm sorry

[CoachJ275]

or maybe it could be the fact that we as service men still act on our own ideas (the old WWII idea of get drunk, screw anything that walks, fight anyone who says anything, and go to sickcall on monday morning for a couple of shots to fix what we did this weekend thought) of how we should present ourself when we are overseas. the japanese are pacifists but when made fun of constantly or treated like they are below us this is what you get.

[Fonze]

The whole bit sounds good but maybe the girl should apologize to us. She started the whole thing and while yes it wasn't the only thing it made many question the integrity of the pack as a whole.

I suggest Oki and Japan as a whole move away from the Gomen money thing and stand up for justice instead of for a hand out. That would go a longer way to curb stupidity on the part of foreigners here and maybe earn them respect from those of us that see them as bums with there handsout.

[Fonze]

. the japanese are pacifists but when made fun of constantly or treated like they are below us this is what you get.

Pacifist by choice or cause they lost?:rolleyes:

I'll give the Okinawans that label since they aren't technically JP's ,but then again they choose this route so they to are Japanese.

[acidcrash]

I do and maybe your saggy wrinkled ass shouldn't be so pompous. Im sure you condemned him when news first broke:thumbdown:. And now your loser ass is trying to take the high road. Facts are facts, you don't release a guilty person.:

Click my avatar and read my past posts...
The only person I have bitched at on this forum is Lt Gen Zilmer. I have continued to withhold judgement until I hear the facts.

Pompous? you are kidding right?

[okisteve]

Pacifist by choice or cause they lost?:rolleyes:

I'll give the Okinawans that label since they aren't technically JP's ,but then again they choose this route so they to are Japanese.

I don't know.... what can you say about someone who can't spell "retarded"?

[Muku]

I suggest Oki and Japan as a whole move away from the Gomen money thing and stand up for justice instead of for a hand out. That would go a longer way to curb stupidity on the part of foreigners here and maybe earn them respect from those of us that see them as bums with there handsout.

Fonze why is it neccessary for Japanese people to change their way of doing things just to please one group of foreigners?

I would think that the foreigner coming to Japan has an obligation to adapt to the culture here and learn about the reasons for why things are done the way they are before dismissing them out of hand, as being something other than what you have written here.

Oh and that doesnt just go for Japan but any country that someone visits.

To automatically think that "their" country's way of doing things is better or superior is in my opinion arrogance on the part of the foreigner.

Fonze they, the Japanese, are not waiting for a hand out, it is a culturally accepted part of the process of attonement for one's mistakes. Plus if you look into it a bit further the amount of money is not that large in comparison to what US courts hand out in punitive and compensatory damages regularly. A Japanese person is NOT going to get rich on any money paid in compensation here.

[acidcrash]

Pacifist by choice or cause they lost?:rolleyes:

I'll give the Okinawans that label since they aren't technically JP's ,but then again they choose this route so they to are Japanese.

Check your history again.
The Ryukyu kingdom was invaded in 1609 by Satsuma clan of Japan. Satsuma looted Shuri castle, and took the king hostage. They fought back, though it was a weak resistence. However, they got thier king back.
In 1879, during the Meiji Restoration, The Japanese forcibly took the Ryukyuan king to Edo and stripped him of his crown. The Ryukyu kingdom was dismantled, and Okinawa ken was established. The Okinawans appealed to China for military assistance to fight back. They provided none.
After WWII, Amami was returned to the Japanese and suffered horrendously. Okinawa remained under US control and avoided the hardships and poverty that Amami suffered. However, in 1972, the US turned them back over to Japan. This was not accomplished by popular vote (though there was a semblance of a vote). It was done over economics. US did not want to pay to maintain the Okinawan economy.

Either way, there are several people caught in the middle, I don't like either side.. Cooler heads should take this up...

[P_chan]

Check your history again.
The Ryukyu kingdom was invaded in 1609 by Satsuma clan of Japan. Satsuma looted Shuri castle, and took the king hostage. They fought back, though it was a weak resistence. However, they got thier king back.
In 1879, during the Meiji Restoration, The Japanese forcibly took the Ryukyuan king to Edo and stripped him of his crown. The Ryukyu kingdom was dismantled, and Okinawa ken was established. The Okinawans appealed to China for military assistance to fight back. They provided none.
After WWII, Amami was returned to the Japanese and suffered horrendously. Okinawa remained under US control and avoided the hardships and poverty that Amami suffered. However, in 1972, the US turned them back over to Japan. This was not accomplished by popular vote (though there was a semblance of a vote). It was done over economics. US did not want to pay to maintain the Okinawan economy.

Either way, there are several people caught in the middle, I don't like either side.. Cooler heads should take this up...

If I remember correctly, didn't Ryukyu have a decent navy? I read something a while ago describing the Satsuma invasion of okinawa. If I recall correctly, they couldn't get into naha port to because it was defended so well. Of course, after a few attempts Satsuma forces decided it was better to land elseware and try a land assault. Which proved effective because Shuri concentrated all of their forces at naha port, and the road leading to shuri from naha port. They basically came in the back door!

I don't remember the exact facts on this. I'll have to look it up later.

[Rollin_J's]

I have some sorrow in my heart if for no other reason than because I know what a horrible precedent this whole thing has set. It's sad that my Okinawan neighbors might have another reason to resent me or give me dirty looks when I walk hand-in-hand with my Okinawan wife.

When I'm together with my Okinawan friends, we are not people of different nations-- just people.

I haven't lost sight of that fact that a little girl was violated, someone's home was invaded, and people were put at risk. Could you imagine if that were your daughter? Or your home? Or even the construction office that was broken in to. I spend more time at my office than I do with my family, sadly. It's something of a sanctuary for me. I wouldn't want anyone smashing it up with a metal bar.

People that I have come to care about are facing hard times... bar & restaurant workers. These are not rich people, most of them are just kids who are out on their own for the first time. Hard-working people who are now suffering and trying to make rent.

I like to blame Zilmer as much as anyone else. I think that the lockdown was the wrong way to go. But I don't forget the deplorable actions of my countrymen. So yeah... if it makes any of the folks who were wronged over the course of the last few weeks feel any better about anything... I'm sorry

That's pretty noble of you. Do you think a random Japanese will apologize to us for all the White slavery they are involved in....wait....its not Japan it is the Yakuza....but not all of the Yakuza.....just a select few.....but which one of those few gave the order.....hmmmm

I think it is nice of you to offer an apology for your fellow countrymen...but you shouldn't....YOU are not at fault...you have fostered what I would assume to be a good relationship with your wife, raised a family and built lines of communication and in roads with the locals; which you now are...a local. :thumbup1:

I also think to blame the Commander of Marine Corps Bases Japan for all your friends woes (those associated with this lockdown) is somewhat misplaced. He did not tell them to skip out on high schools classes, he did not tell them to get a job in the bar/entertainment industry, he did not tell them to wear short shorts to attract an American, get pregnant, and then have to accept a dead-end job to make rent, he did not say or do anything that prompted these idividuals scraping by for a living not to have prepared themselves for life and its many challenges. Americans not drinking on base affects whom; how? Just because a few young ladies and men will not make rent is of no concern, they will adjust and get a job at Family Mart, Lawsons, San A, DFS, or another fine Japanese institution....do not sell them short.

I disagree with your comment:

"I think that the lockdown was the wrong way to go."

I think it was perfectly timed, it woke some of the newcomers to the island up (SOFA), it showed that we will in fact take necessary steps to keep our military and civilian personnel out of trouble, and we showed that we cared about what the Okinawan government and population care about. Now, that the lockdown is over...we will show how much we continue to care by carrying on our community relation projects, etc.

Most Japanese (to me they are all Japanese) are pretty indifferent to our presence, the ones making the noise and wanting reperations, apologies are usually the ones that are selfish and only think about themselves...to them....NEVER APOLOGIZE.

Being humble is cool....but you gotta be PROUD too...your post almost sounded defeatest..:old:


JMHO....

Roll On

[vvloc]

I don't know.... what can you say about someone who can't spell "retarded"?

I would say that it's not surprising that the same person asks "what is hyaku yen, what is Okinawan black sugar?" Gotta be a record there - never heard of hyaku yen - really qualified to offer commentary on the island.

Hmmm - so much for the educational benefits of the U.S. correctional services.

[Asshat]

I would say that it's not surprising that the same person asks "what is hyaku yen, what is Okinawan black sugar?" Gotta be a record there - never heard of hyaku yen - really qualified to offer commentary on the island.

Hmmm - so much for the educational benefits of the U.S. correctional services.

Hyaku yen? That's what the money does from my wallet!

[DoctorP]

Hyaku yen? That's what the money does from my wallet!

That's why you are "dumber than a soap dish!" :D

[acidcrash]

Hyaku yen? That's what the money does from my wallet!


Money "hundreds" from your wallet?

[Fonze]

Fonze why is it neccessary for Japanese people to change their way of doing things just to please one group of foreigners?

I would think that the foreigner coming to Japan has an obligation to adapt to the culture here and learn about the reasons for why things are done the way they are before dismissing them out of hand, as being something other than what you have written here.

Oh and that doesnt just go for Japan but any country that someone visits.

To automatically think that "their" country's way of doing things is better or superior is in my opinion arrogance on the part of the foreigner.

Fonze they, the Japanese, are not waiting for a hand out, it is a culturally accepted part of the process of attonement for one's mistakes. Plus if you look into it a bit further the amount of money is not that large in comparison to what US courts hand out in punitive and compensatory damages regularly. A Japanese person is NOT going to get rich on any money paid in compensation here.

Never said they should but they should think about it. They should though look for justice before a handout should they not? Then after that they should seek compensation for any distress. I think many see that as a handout don't you?

[Asshat]

Money "hundreds" from your wallet?

play on hyaku. haku vs hai-a-ku.

[Fonze]

I don't know.... what can you say about someone who can't spell "retarded"?

Once again losers like you go after grammer cause your offended at the truth. You and vvloc just don't like whats written. I also got you figured out vvloc your eel's gay ;lover aren't you?:barf: Ya I did time and you did anal.

[vvloc]

Once again losers like you go after grammer cause your offended at the truth. You and vvloc just don't like whats written. I also got you figured out vvloc your eel's gay ;lover aren't you?:barf: Ya I did time and you did anal.

Still waiting to hear about the experiences in stir that caused your obsessive homophobia, fozne.

Aside from your English as a hundredth language, never has anyone known so little about so much.

[DoctorP]

Once again losers like you go after grammer cause your offended at the truth. You and vvloc just don't like whats written. I also got you figured out vvloc your eel's gay ;lover aren't you?:barf: Ya I did time and you did anal.

Please refrain from insulting other members.

[Asshat]

Still waiting to hear about the experiences in stir that caused your obsessive homophobia, fozne.

Aside from your English as a hundredth language, never has anyone known so little about so much.

I suffer from a bit of homophobia. Can't help it. Well, lesbians are okay.:D

[acidcrash]

Once again losers like you go after grammer cause your offended at the truth. You and vvloc just don't like whats written. I also got you figured out vvloc your eel's gay ;lover aren't you?:barf: Ya I did time and you did anal.

Not going after grammar (grammer), just waiting for a valid point to spill from your mouth.
You live on base, seem to have no knowledge of Okinawa other than what others have told you, from your defensiveness, I would say you are young and lack much worldly experience. Am I close?
I included a link to some Japanese media to get some opinions on. Did you click it? Did you read it? I don't think so. All you have done is continue to belittle everyone whose opinion is different than yours.
The whole point of this post was to look from another perspective, altercast, empathize.
I see that is too difficult for some.

[vvloc]

Not going after grammar (grammer), just waiting for a valid point to spill from your mouth.
You live on base, seem to have no knowledge of Okinawa other than what others have told you, from your defensiveness, I would say you are young and lack much worldly experience. Am I close?
I included a link to some Japanese media to get some opinions on. Did you click it? Did you read it? I don't think so. All you have done is continue to belittle everyone whose opinion is different than yours.
The whole point of this post was to look from another perspective, altercast, empathize.
I see that is too difficult for some.

If you're waiting for a valid point to spill (good choice of words there.) from the mouth of fozne, you're in for a long wait.

[Fonze]

Not going after grammar (grammer), just waiting for a valid point to spill from your mouth.
You live on base, seem to have no knowledge of Okinawa other than what others have told you, from your defensiveness, I would say you are young and lack much worldly experience. Am I close?
I included a link to some Japanese media to get some opinions on. Did you click it? Did you read it? I don't think so. All you have done is continue to belittle everyone whose opinion is different than yours.
The whole point of this post was to look from another perspective, altercast, empathize.
I see that is too difficult for some.

Never said anything about you. I have looked at it from the other side and I know I come off as anti okinawan but i'm really not. Exuses for okinawas history are just that. I am running at the mouth to those that talk shit as if these people are high and mighty.

[Fonze]

Still waiting to hear about the experiences in stir that caused your obsessive homophobia, fozne.

Aside from your English as a hundredth language, never has anyone known so little about so much.

Wow homo education is great. Can't even spell a name right. I don't have homophobia I just dislike the homo's here.

Yes english is not my first language, but i'm i'm not ashamed of it like you of your homosexuality.:barf:

Do you write anything besides after me? Contribute or go to sleep.

[Asshat]

If you're waiting for a valid point to spill (good choice of words there.) from the mouth of fozne, you're in for a long wait.

In defense of Fonze, he does come off as a rightwingnut, and a card carrying member of the young republicans.

But I find his terse manner and honesty refreshing in an otherwise verbose and intellectual-combat type of banter here.

In the end, most of us have the right to express anger and indignation of the press, the curfew, etc. etc.

[Fonze]

what is hyaku yen again?

[slickmetal]

I'm sorry great okinawa that I "rack a diciprine" and some douche bags showed you that I did :( Shame! Forgive me please. I don't want or need your food though!

[DoctorP]

Fonze and vvloc take your childish game of "I know you are, but what am I? " to the chat. Do not continue with it here.

[Asshat]

Fonze and vvloc take your childish game of "I know you are, but what am I? " to the chat. Do not continue with it here.

LMAO! Yeah! But bring your nerf noodles!

[Fonze]

sorry DocP but what is hyaku yen? Remember I'm a dumb immigrant ex-convict.

[vvloc]

Remember I'm a dumb immigrant ex-convict.

"I on the other hand was born and raised in the U.S."

Which is it fozne, born and raised or felonious immigrant?

[Fonze]

Look faggot I was talking to someone else. Yes i was born and raisd in the U.S. I was kidding go have sex with your lover get the **** of this shit can't you get a clue. Eat shit rot and then die already.

[vvloc]

Look faggot I was talking to someone else.

Were you talking to someone else or LYING to someone else?

[Fonze]

I wish i saw you in public but i wouldn't want you to get on your knees

[acidcrash]

DOCP kill this thread.. the point was lost on the first page.....

[Fire4Effect]

While stopped at the intersection (Hamagawa) two men (Young men) walked up to my daughters side of the window. My 3 year old. She smiled and waved at them. They SPIT on my window and yelled at my wife and daughter. My 3 year old was (probably still is) in hysterics. I KNOW these were probably some of those as#holes from mainland. I don't care. My little girls wave at everyone every time we stop at red lights. A 3 year old for f$cks sake. I didn't believe the rumors I have been reading about in here. Figure it was as everyone else said, simply BS. Now, I know some of it isn't. I arrive back on Friday. How in the hell can I explain this away to my daughter? QUOTE]

It's not BS. As I posted earlier, I have to get my car re-painted thanks to some bosozuka's Saturday night. They caught me at a red light, and all I was doing was going from Foster back to Futenma.

[dweener]

wow...i missed a lot while i slept

[dweener]

fire...that is the younger generation!!

[dweener]

I have worked with numerous local nationals for the last 4 years...and ammoyankee can back me up on this....these guys are the coolest most laid back people i have ever met. They are nice, generous, hard working when we find something to do, and frankly have most of the qualities i would want to teach me kids. Dont hate the okinawans because of a few dumb kids!

[dweener]

It works the same as them hating all of us because of a few idiots

[acidcrash]

It's not BS. As I posted earlier, I have to get my car re-painted thanks to some bosozuka's Saturday night. They caught me at a red light, and all I was doing was going from Foster back to Futenma.

Bosazuka.. they didn't do it because you are American.. they did because you were there.. Japanese, Japanese police, or Americans get harrassed by these punks.. but they will only do it in groups of 5 or more..

[dweener]

Bosazuka.. they didn't do it because you are American.. they did because you were there.. Japanese, Japanese police, or Americans get harrassed by these punks.. but they will only do it in groups of 5 or more..

Yeah, but before all "this" happened, how many times did you hear of people getting their cars clubbed, or 3 year olds getting spit at?

[acidcrash]

Yeah, but before all "this" happened, how many times did you hear of people getting their cars clubbed, or 3 year olds getting spit at?

in 1998 i had by back window shattered (along with about 30 others by gate two street) by a parade of those guys...

[Meliai]

I agree that issuing a vaguely named "period of reflection" is more or less counterproductive. Were we all being punished? Were we being protected? What precisely were we supposed to be reflecting upon? I find that to be a faulty decision on the part of the leadership ... and possibly an extreme case of PC where being afraid to be open and honest means your words are empty, i.e. modern politics. I don't appreciate politics being played with our troops.

However, a bigger issue I see is the lack of understanding between 3 separate cultures on this tiny island. We are not, for the most part, integrating into their society and neither are they integrating into ours. In fact, Okinawans have hardly integrated into Japanese society. I know the idea of the Global Village is appealing, perhaps in a Communist Manifesto, but in reality, we (humans all over the world) have such different sets of beliefs and standards that it isn't really feasible right now.

As an American, I'm taken aback that any one group could be penalized en masse for the errors of a few, much less for alleged errors. Individualists we are if nothing else. And can you imagine, with the racial, cultural, ethnic, etc. diversity in the US, "locking down" say, all [one group] for every crime committed by a member of that group? We even cringe at the idea of profiling in regards to known terrorist groups because we might offend others who may fit certain racial/religious aspects of those profiles. Essentially, in the US, we kowtow to immigrants and foreigners. (Think illegal immigrants, vocal minority groups, a republic looking out for the little guy, protecting our global image, etc.)

But this is not the US, this is Japan. They don't see things the way we do and they probably never will. The whole a-nail-sticking-out-of-the-board-will-be-hammered-down way of life is what they not only live by, but like, respect and feel to be correct. And none of us can *prove* that we're more right than anyone else. Aside from the nutty vocal minority here and trying to see things from their perspective, I don't think all Japanese want to insult us by asking for an apology or for expecting us all to reflect as a whole on our behavior. See? It's collective. Our behavior, not his or hers. Ours, as Americans. That attitude may never seem fair to us because it is at odds with our values. And it's never easy being the outsider. Something that helps me gain perspective when I'm at odds with other people's words or behavior is the idea that when people seem as though they're being mean or negative towards me, I remember that they are reacting to something within themselves that often has nothing to do with me as an individual. That may not "fix" a situation but it does keep me calm and rational enough to approach the situation responsibly.

All in all, although the lockdown didn't bother me so much in practice, it bothers me in theory and in what it may represent in the future. What precedent has been established for future misconduct and also for US/Japanese relations from now on? I fear this is only the opening act in a long and drawn out drama nobody was expecting to open now.