Let him, who is without sin, cast the first stone.

[okimisfit25]

U.S. military crime: SOFA so good?
The stats offer some surprises in wake of the latest Okinawa rape claim
By MICHAEL HASSETT
Special to The Japan Times
"In 2006, the Okinawan islands had a population of 1,368,000 people, 6,808 of which were registered foreign residents not covered by the SOFA. In 2006, there were 4,188 arrests for penal code offenses and 605 arrests for special law violations. Foreigners not covered by the SOFA were responsible for 44 of these penal code offenses, and we can use partially reported figures to estimate that this group committed around 22 special law violations.

Doing the math gives us an arrest rate of 0.342 percent for Japanese in Okinawa, a bit lower than the rate for the entire country.

Now let's turn to the U.S. military in Okinawa. There are about 42,570 SOFA-covered Americans living in the prefecture. In 2006, 63 SOFA-covered individuals were arrested for penal code offenses such as murder, bodily injury, bicycle theft and the like. Eleven arrests for special law violations can be estimated.

What's a "special law violation"? Basically it's a breach of a certain established law, such as the Stimulants Control Law, Firearms and Swords Control Law, or even the Horse Racing Law.

A little math using these numbers gives us an arrest rate of 0.174 percent, about half that of Japanese in Okinawa (0.342) and the entire country (0.351).

Shocked? I am! It's particularly surprising when you consider that almost half the U.S. military population is 25 years old or younger. In fact, 80 percent of U.S. service members are younger than 35. And men comprise nearly 85 percent of the U.S. military force.

If we were to attribute 80 percent of arrests of Japanese in Okinawa to men and women aged 15 to 64, a group that makes up 65.1 percent of the prefecture, the arrest rate among Japanese in this age bracket in Okinawa would rise to 0.420 percent. In fact, we would have to attribute 67 percent of arrests in Okinawa to those under the age of 15 and over the age of 64 before the arrest rate of Japanese in the 15-to-64 age bracket would fall below that of SOFA-covered individuals in the area. Shocking indeed!

[Muku]

Let him, who is without sin, cast the first stone

That's me in the front.....:rolleyes:


http://a.abcnews.com/images/International/b77dbdcf-c90e-445c-a067-3b9aacf29f3f_ms.jpeg


This kind of repetitive post of the same/similar material is getting more than boring it's gone beyond that.......please learn to use the search button first before posting the same information. Thank you.

[Fonze]

New people don't know this muku and should be allowed to post it shouldn't they?:)

Sure you are that guy muku:rolleyes:

[Muku]

New people don't know this muku and should be allowed to post it shouldn't they?:)

Sure you are that guy muku:rolleyes:

Fonze it is called netiquitte.....usually when someone joins a new forum it is just polite to at least scan through the rules of the forum before posting any material.

And checking to see of the same information or a similar post was already made before posting this type of material.

Plus just copying and pasting articles from other sites is not good manners on a message board, and it is against the rules here as well.

There is a great link here somewhere....if I remember correctly posted by eelecurb that would be very informative for new members posting here.

Dont have time right now to search for it, hopefully someone else can. Otherwise I will find it later.:D

[TheLastDon]

Yes, the search button what a great tool! Should have a tutorial for people to go through before they can start posting.

I doubt it would help much, everyone thinks their fecal matter no longer carries an odor and believes their post is awesome. If they only would search and see it has been said about a dozen times already.

[Fonze]

Well I don't see it as a problem because it really nisn't. Next time don't read it or respond to it.:D

[TheLastDon]

There is a great link here somewhere....if I remember correctly posted by eelecurb that would be very informative for new members posting here.

Dont have time right now to search for it, hopefully someone else can. Otherwise I will find it later.:D

I bumped it about a week ago Muku; a lot of good it did and then eel responds in
a nice condescending way to me as well for his own thread. :cursing:

[TheNoNamedOne]

That's me in the front.....:rolleyes:


http://a.abcnews.com/images/International/b77dbdcf-c90e-445c-a067-3b9aacf29f3f_ms.jpeg


You mean the one in front on the other side leaning back holding his jewels? :rolleyes:

[Fonze]

I bumped it about a week ago Muku; a lot of good it did and then eel responds in
a nice condescending way to me as well for his own thread. :cursing:

Speaking about eel where is that anti-american anti-military. How his highness took a blow after last weeks events. So funny.

[Fonze]

TP nice one.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

I bumped it about a week ago Muku; a lot of good it did and then eel responds in
a nice condescending way to me as well for his own thread. :cursing:
I believe I said something like "I'm glad you found the link useful or interesting." I'm not sure why you see that as condescending. I was genuinely happy that someone appreciated the link. Here it is again for those that would like to see it.

http://uploads.ungrounded.net/188000/188612_Posting.swf

[sweetzen]

This is why everyone should be required to take a full year of statistics in high school. This has been posted before, and it doesn't tell the whole story. It disregards two things:

Crimes committed on base by Okinawans.
Crimes committed on base by Americans.


Given the relative size of the population, and the number who work/shop/play on base, the number of crimes committed by Okinawans on base is likely statistically insignificant.

However, given the number of Americans who work/shop/play/live on base, the number of crimes committed by Americans on base is significant enough to completely invalidate this article's claims. For instance, a friend of mine works in security for AAFES. The shoplifting numbers alone, were they reported, would be more than enough to bump the crime rate by Americans up to a comparable level.

You can't ignore the fact that crimes committed on base by Americans go unreported and then claim to have reliable evidence that Americans here are less likely to commit crimes. Statistically, this article is incomplete, and thus untrustworthy.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Thank you for that sweetzen. I made very similar remarks regarding on-base crime in one of the many threads on this topic. Your assessment is accurate, both about crime on Okinawa, and also about people's ignorance of statistics.

[Muku]

Well I don't see it as a problem because it really nisn't. Next time don't read it or respond to it.:D
Fonze how would you like to open up ten or twelve different threads with the same information in them? The same could be said to you as well about dont read or respond, but how the heck are you going to know what it is about without reading it, but that isnt the point really.

Also Fonze take a look at the rule 9 here....

9. Do not post copyrighted material in full. When quoting news stories or copyrighted material, please post a link to the story. Post only the excerpts of those points which are most important for discussion.


The link provided here courtesy of eelcurb is just plain good manners, and makes life easier for everyone participating on a web forum like this.

Internet Forum Manner's (http://uploads.ungrounded.net/188000/188612_Posting.swf)

or for those that dont want to hit a link here it is "live".

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw5-GOG8SXo

Did you watch it Fonze?:)

[The Truth™]

Thank you for that sweetzen. I made very similar remarks regarding on-base crime in one of the many threads on this topic. Your assessment is accurate, both about crime on Okinawa, and also about people's ignorance of statistics.


While I can't argue merits of this point without assured data, I do have a point of my own to make:

The locals don't care about on-base crime.

The argument that SOFA personnel statistically commit fewer crimes in the local community is a perfectly relevant argument in a discussion revolving around SOFA personnel's level of negative effects on said local community.

The only ones feigning perfection are the locals themselves. Americans admit their fallibility.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

I would argue that, given the very small proportion of their total time on Okinawa being spent off-base, their crime rate is still actually quite high. The fact that Okinawans, or Japanese, or anyone else also commits crime is irrelevant. If foreign teachers, out-of-prefecture tourists, or any other group of guests commit high-profile crimes on a regular basis, they are going to attract a lot of attention.

[The Truth™]

I would argue that, given the very small proportion of their total time on Okinawa being spent off-base, their crime rate is still actually quite high. The fact that Okinawans, or Japanese, or anyone else also commits crime is irrelevant. If foreign teachers, out-of-prefecture tourists, or any other group of guests commit high-profile crimes on a regular basis, they are going to attract a lot of attention.


I disagree that they do not spend much time off base. That would negate a lot of the arguments local propagandists in this forum say about improved conditions during the lockdown, it also defies logic.

Secondly, if it can be demonstrated that "foreign teachers, out-of-prefecture tourists, or any other group of guests commit high-profile crimes" at a rate equal or higher than the general population, yet the SOFA personnel (whether or not aided by their base domociles) commit those same crimes at a lower rate, it is still a wonderfully poignant argument against the hyperbole strewn about against SOFA personnel in Japan.

I'm afraid, it is very relevant.

[DougP]

Everybody racks disciprine!:) so says the statistics..

[sweetzen]

The locals don't care about on-base crime.

This is a Red Herring. Whether or not locals care about on-base crime says nothing about the statistical evidence. The simple fact is, we don't know how law-abiding Americans here are, because we do not have accurate data. It could be that only 10% of crimes by Americans are unreported, and it could be 90%. Either way, the article is refuted.

[Rollin_J's]

These arguements....rantings are starting to sound like:



" Every minute I stay in this room I get weaker. And every minute the Okinawans squat in the bush he gets stronger. " ( DougP )

" I watched a snail crawl along the edge of a straight razor. That's my dream. That's my nightmare. Crawling, slithering, along the edge of a straight razor, and surviving. " ( Tony Stacks high on ether)

" We must kill them. We must incinerate them. Pig after pig, cow after cow, village after village, army after army. And they call me an assasin. What do you call it when the assasins accuse the assasin ? " ( F0nze )

" Out there with these natives it must be temptaion to be God. 'Cause there's a conflict in every human heart between the rational, the irrational, between good and evil. And good does not always triumph. " ( Muku )

" Every man has a breaking point. You and I have. The Prosecutor has reached his and obviously he has gone insane. " ( DocP )

" We do a lot of surfing here. I like to finish operations early. " ( dK )

" Never get out of the boat. Absolutely god damn right. Unless you were going all the way. P_Chan got off the boat. He split from the whole ****in' program. " ( Gunny8411 )

" The Okinawans are dug in too deep, or moving too fast. His idea of R&R was cold rice and a little rat meat. He had only two ways home, death or victory. " ( eelcurb )

" It was the way we had over here of living with ourselves. We'd cut them in half with a machine gun and give them a bandaid. It was a lie, and the more I saw of them, the more I hated lies. " ( TheTruth )

" The heads ? You're looking at the heads. Yeah, sometimes he goes too far, you know. He's the first one to admit it. " ( LtGen Zilmers Aide de Camp )

"Do you know what the man is saying? Do you? This is dialectics. It's very simple dialectics. One through nine, no maybes, no supposes, no fractions. You can't travel in space, you can't go out into space, you know, without, like, you know, with fractions. What are you going to land on, one quarter, three-eighths, what are you going to do when you go from here to Venus or something -- that's dialectic physics, OK? Dialectic logic is there's only love and hate, you either love somebody or you hate them." ( AIMHIGH )

" We train young men to drop fire on people. But their commanders won't allow them to write **** on their airplanes because it's obscene! "
( okisteve )

Just poking fun... :cool:

[okisteve]

I would argue that, given the very small proportion of their total time on Okinawa being spent off-base, their crime rate is still actually quite high. The fact that Okinawans, or Japanese, or anyone else also commits crime is irrelevant. If foreign teachers, out-of-prefecture tourists, or any other group of guests commit high-profile crimes on a regular basis, they are going to attract a lot of attention.

Since the statistical concept seems confusing to some people, let's just narrow it down to crimes committed by military personnel (not all SOFA) and just for argument's sake let's limit it further to single males. What percentage of their time would they be spending off base? Let's say 10%. If they commit crimes against Okinawans off base at half the rate of the general population (who spend 100% of their time off base), then in effect, per hour spent off base, they would be committing crimes at 5 times the rate of the Okinawan population.

[Oxmix]

My take is that the only acceptable crime rate that the Okinawans will accept is ZERO percent. That may not be enough considering that they want the US off the Island.

Point is, your damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Regards

Ox

[Nullis_Sum]

Rollin J's...too damn funny! Thanks.:thumbup1:

Nice to have voices to go with the forum reading...

[The Truth™]

This is a Red Herring. Whether or not locals care about on-base crime says nothing about the statistical evidence. The simple fact is, we don't know how law-abiding Americans here are, because we do not have accurate data. It could be that only 10% of crimes by Americans are unreported, and it could be 90%. Either way, the article is refuted.

You missed the point. Even if it was "Escape From New York" within the fence line, it wouldn't change the fact that our per capita effect on the locals is less than the general population. It's genius in its simplicity.

[The Truth™]

Since the statistical concept seems confusing to some people, let's just narrow it down to crimes committed by military personnel (not all SOFA) and just for argument's sake let's limit it further to single males. What percentage of their time would they be spending off base? Let's say 10%. If they commit crimes against Okinawans off base at half the rate of the general population (who spend 100% of their time off base), then in effect, per hour spent off base, they would be committing crimes at 5 times the rate of the Okinawan population.


Straw man argument. The fact is that they are still in Okinawa, whether behind the fence or not. They are still here, and that is the entire point of the "let 'em stay, or kick 'em out debate"!!!

And hot damned! if they are not having a statistically less negative effect than the perfect local beings, themselves!

Eebily eebily, that's all folks!

[okisteve]

You missed the point. Even if it was "Escape From New York" within the fence line, it wouldn't change the fact that our per capita effect on the locals is less than the general population. It's genius in its simplicity.

But what about people's impressions? You think that Okinawans don't notice a bunch of noisy jarheads taking up the whole sidewalk? Well, that's who they are going to remember when something hits the news, not someone who looks like their Uncle Toro.

[The Truth™]

But what about people's impressions? You think that Okinawans don't notice a bunch of noisy jarheads taking up the whole sidewalk? Well, that's who they are going to remember when something hits the news, not someone who looks like their Uncle Toro.


I agree. In fact, it's the thesis statement of my entire manifesto spread out among my posts here in this forum.

The people ask the impossible. Human beings will continue to demonstrate their deeply ingrained inability for perfection. It's unfair for the locals to expect otherwise. Yet, I understand media hype, victim culture, and the reality of life. I'm just doing what I do best...tell the truth.

I will again invoke my powers to speak for all America:

We will be perfect, if only the locals can show us how they do it.

[okisteve]

I agree. In fact, it's the thesis statement of my entire manifesto spread out among my posts here in this forum.

The people ask the impossible. Human beings will continue to demonstrate their deeply ingrained inability for perfection. It's unfair for the locals to expect otherwise. Yet, I understand media hype, victim culture, and the reality of life. I'm just doing what I do best...tell the truth.

I will again invoke my powers to speak for all America:

We will be perfect, if only the locals can show us how they do it.

You say you agree, but is there something impossible about giving a little more respect to the values of the people you're living amongst? (Please don't mention the noisy scooters again.)

[Fonze]

Fonze how would you like to open up ten or twelve different threads with the same information in them? The same could be said to you as well about dont read or respond, but how the heck are you going to know what it is about without reading it, but that isnt the point really.

Also Fonze take a look at the rule 9 here....

9. Do not post copyrighted material in full. When quoting news stories or copyrighted material, please post a link to the story. Post only the excerpts of those points which are most important for discussion.


The link provided here courtesy of eelcurb is just plain good manners, and makes life easier for everyone participating on a web forum like this.

Internet Forum Manner's (http://uploads.ungrounded.net/188000/188612_Posting.swf)

or for those that dont want to hit a link here it is "live".

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw5-GOG8SXo

Did you watch it Fonze?:)

Well i don't know if im supposed to respond but, I dont think it matters. If the mods did they would have done something about it. I just think you don't like hearing about the truth in the op.

Funny ass video though.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Okisteve, damn you and your logic!

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d164/cmack94/Logicballs.jpg

[The Truth™]

You say you agree, but is there something impossible about giving a little more respect to the values of the people you're living amongst? (Please don't mention the noisy scooters again.)


I never said anything about noisy scooters, but isn't that poor way of demonstrating these special values you assign to them?

I laugh at the notion of their supposed superior values. What American doesn't want peace? What American doesn't want harmony? What American doesn't want to end world hunger, and bring good will toward men?

Love thy neighbor. How about that for a value? It's too bad they're not familiar with this nugget:

"The strangers who sojourn with you shall be to you as the natives among you, and you shall love them as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt."


We all want a perfect world. America calls it a journey. The locals have the nerve to call it a destination, and declare they've arrived.

[sweetzen]

But what about people's impressions? You think that Okinawans don't notice a bunch of noisy jarheads taking up the whole sidewalk? Well, that's who they are going to remember when something hits the news, not someone who looks like their Uncle Toro.

Truth's points are well taken, but it still skews the numbers. After all, if we include all the Americans who live on base in the statistics, it serves the purpose of lowering the number of per capita crimes, but it creates a problem (because we've simultaneously discounted all the crimes committed on base as irrelevant). Either we need to count the on-base crimes, or we need to produce separate statistics for those Americans living on- and off-base. That would give us a more accurate picture.

And the question of "time" is most definitely not a Straw Man. It's just a different way of counting the units. One way is to count each individual as a unit, regardless of the time they actually spend in the community. By contrast, we could just as easily count "hours spent in the community" and regard that as an accurate measure of criminal activity. This would also allow us to disregard on-base crime (which is good, because we will never get statistics on it anyway).

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

I laugh at the notion of their supposed superior values. What American doesn't want peace? What American doesn't want harmony? What American doesn't want to end world hunger, and bring good will toward men?

I suspect anyone who makes their living working for the military-industrial complex.

1. The U. S. military establishment

In 1991, at the end of the Cold War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War), the U.S. defense budget was $298.9 billion. In 2006, that budget had increased to $447.4 billion, and this does not included the $100 billion-plus spent in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. It is estimated that American military expenditures represent, at a very minimum, close to half of total world military outlays (http://yearbook2006.sipri.org/) (48 percent of the world total in 2005, according to official figures), while the U.S. accounts for less than 5 per cent of world population and about 25 per cent of world total output. As a percentage, the U.S. military expenses gobble up a minimum of 21 percent of the total American federal budget (2006=$2.5 trillion). Such a military budget is larger than the gross domestic product (GDP) of some countries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal), such as Belgium or Sweden. It is sort of a government within a government.

In 2006, the U.S. Department of Defense employed 2,143,000 people, while it estimates that private defense contractors employ 3,600,000 workers, for a grand total of 5,743,000 defense-related American jobs, or 3.8 percent of the total labor force. In addition, there are close to 25 million veterans in the United States. Therefore, it is safe to say that more than 30 million Americans receive checks which originate directly or indirectly from the U. S. military budget. Assuming conservatively only two voting-age people per household, this translates into a block of some 60 million American voters who have a financial stake in the American military establishment. Thus the clear danger of a militarized society perpetuating itself politically.
http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_1241.shtml/

[okisteve]

I never said anything about noisy scooters, but isn't that poor way of demonstrating these special values you assign to them?

I laugh at the notion of their supposed superior values. What American doesn't want peace? What American doesn't want harmony? What American doesn't want to end world hunger, and bring good will toward men?

Love thy neighbor. How about that for a value? It's too bad they're not familiar with this nugget:

"The strangers who sojourn with you shall be to you as the natives among you, and you shall love them as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt."


We all want a perfect world. America calls it a journey. The locals have the nerve to call it a destination, and declare they've arrived.

They have reason to be happy with themselves but I never heard or heard of any Okinawan saying that this is a perfect society. I am not demanding that Americans should be perfect either, just to behave a little more sedately than they are accustomed to at home when out on the town.

[The Truth™]

Truth's points are well taken, but it still skews the numbers. After all, if we include all the Americans who live on base in the statistics, it serves the purpose of lowering the number of per capita crimes, but it creates a problem (because we've simultaneously discounted all the crimes committed on base as irrelevant). Either we need to count the on-base crimes, or we need to produce separate statistics for those Americans living on- and off-base. That would give us a more accurate picture.

And the question of "time" is most definitely not a Straw Man. It's just a different way of counting the units. One way is to count each individual as a unit, regardless of the time they actually spend in the community. By contrast, we could just as easily count "hours spent in the community" and regard that as an accurate measure of criminal activity. This would also allow us to disregard on-base crime (which is good, because we will never get statistics on it anyway).


To clarify: No SOFA person lives exclusively on-base (other than inmates ;) ).

"Time" was not the straw man I spoke of. The straw man (the one with no brain) says that domociling on base, with the freedom to rome about the island equates to not being on Okinawa and part of the community.

I wish I could be the Wizard of Oki and grant the spry flammable straw gentleman a brain, but alas I am just a man, much like the famed Wizard of Oz.

(that last part was just self-indulgent rambling and not meant to call any forum members "brainless.")

[Asshat]

I suspect anyone who makes their living working for the military-industrial complex.

http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_1241.shtml/

lol... War is the best buisness around. Of course US companies get a boost up on the fallout; under NAFTA they can get underpaid Mexicans and S. Americans to do the labor with none of those pesky income tax, labor standards, or leave and vacation stipulations.

Then of course once the wars are over, there is always "country rebuilding" available for those companies willing to change tooling from cruise missiles to oil drilling, stamping of aircraft and gun parts for perimeter fencing and anti-instrusion systems.

The possibilities are endless! :D

[The Truth™]

They have reason to be happy with themselves but I never heard or heard of any Okinawan saying that this is a perfect society. I am not demanding that Americans should be perfect either, just to behave a little more sedately than they are accustomed to at home when out on the town.

I agree with your desire.

[sweetzen]

To clarify: No SOFA person lives exclusively on-base (other than inmates ;) ).

"Time" was not the straw man I spoke of. The straw man (the one with no brain) says that domociling on base, with the freedom to rome about the island equates to not being on Okinawa and part of the community.

I wish I could be the Wizard of Oki and grant the spry flammable straw gentleman a brain, but alas I am just a man, much like the famed Wizard of Oz.

(that last part was just self-indulgent rambling and not meant to call any forum members "brainless.")

Agreed, and feel free to ramble. :)

Inmates are actually a pretty good example. If we don't somehow factor time into the equation, then we may as well say that statistically, the places with the lowest crime rates are the prisons (since they bring no crime into a community). And true, the bases aren't prisons, but they do take Americans out of the local community on a daily basis (their "freedom to roam" is a relative freedom).

Personally, I don't care who has the lower crime rate. I just don't like the way this article "fudges" the numbers in favor of the Americans. I wouldn't say it's a sin of commission, but it's definitely one of omission.

Now, if you'll excuse me, after using the word "sin" in a post, I have to go into a dark room and flagellate myself until I feel appropriately penitent. :rolleyes:

[The Truth™]

Agreed, and feel free to ramble. :)

Inmates are actually a pretty good example. If we don't somehow factor time into the equation, then we may as well say that statistically, the places with the lowest crime rates are the prisons (since they bring no crime into a community). And true, the bases aren't prisons, but they do take Americans out of the local community on a daily basis (their "freedom to roam" is a relative freedom).

Personally, I don't care who has the lower crime rate. I just don't like the way this article "fudges" the numbers in favor of the Americans. I wouldn't say it's a sin of commission, but it's definitely one of omission.

Now, if you'll excuse me, after using the word "sin" in a post, I have to go into a dark room and flagellate myself until I feel appropriately penitent. :rolleyes:



I see where you're coming from, and appreciate the humor.

[okisteve]

I see where you're coming from, and appreciate the humor.

Eureka! Gotta hand it to you for coming clean. What is needed is more classes in self-flagellation for newcomers. I think there are some helpful videos on the web.

[capnbilly]

Found this post on another site. Kind of interesting I thought:

Okinawa City Mayor Makes Scathing Comments About
sharky1 Click here to see all messages by sharky1 Click here to see member profile (Mar 3 2008 - 16:16) Rate | Report

The Okinawa City Mayor is again making scathing remarks about the US Military and Americans concerning this incident. The Okinawa Vice Gov. has joined in with her. They are making impossible demands of perfection from the Military. Even though the US Military has the lowest crime rate per capita of any population group in Japan, they continue to portray the US Military and Americans as evil. If they keep up this kind of rhetoric, then we should all go to all the tourism sites on the internet and post comments about how Okinawa treats their guests. Since tourism is their primary industry, we can and should hit them where it hurts. Do it...Do it NOW!!!

[LooseCannon]

That's me in the front.....:rolleyes:


http://a.abcnews.com/images/International/b77dbdcf-c90e-445c-a067-3b9aacf29f3f_ms.jpeg


This kind of repetitive post of the same/similar material is getting more than boring it's gone beyond that.......please learn to use the search button first before posting the same information. Thank you.

You mean the one holding his privates? Or is Airman more correct?:cursing:

[The Truth™]

I suspect anyone who makes their living working for the military-industrial complex.

http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_1241.shtml/

Oops, I missed this gem earlier.


I suspect the anti-base radicals want more school children raped by U.S. servicemembers. It's all an abominable mess, ain't it?

[capnbilly]

Muku...are you the one holding his groin on the front row?