questions for dk

[afansi]

Since you're the administrator of this site, please come clean about exactly who and what you are targetting in the following message and and why.

"You locked down your troops over nothing, Condoleezza Rice apologizes over nothing, this girl's family drops the case! Two out of four cases that mangaged to bring this on the international level have been dropped.

Do not brush this under the rug! Otherwise the rape card can be used again and again, which, in my opinion, is what happened in this case!

You expect your people to fight for you and their nation and receive no support whatsoever? Stand your ground. You have lost the faith of your troops. You. Your fault, not theirs.

Expect anger. Expect outrage. EMBRACE IT. Otherwise this will all happen again given enough time.

All those affected, do not stand by. Don't let this wash over you. Don't just take it. Be angry. Do what you need to do."

To spare the innocent, also please let us know who should "embrace outrage" and who should this be directed at?

At the same time who should "do what you need to do," and what does this mean: mutiny, attacks on Okinawan civilians, desertion or what?

And, by the way, are you about to fire the first shot?

[dk]

This is targetting those responsible for unfairly punishing the masses over the actions (in which two weren't even prosecuted and I have a feeling the other rape case will probably be dropped as well) of a few. These people did not stand behind their troops. They bent to the will of the vocal minority.

Embrace outrage means don't just do what many are doing and push this off as if nothing ever happened. Be pissed off. After talking to someone affected by this lockdown, the person told me, "at least this will all be over soon" and wasn't angry anymore about being unfairly punished. Don't let that anger just wash away until next time. Write letters. Make phone calls. Send emails. Do whatever you need to do so that this does not happen again.

Do what you need to do explained above. Write letters. Send emails. Make phone calls, or hell, just be angry, but don't be a pushover. If you're convinced nothing can be done, you're right.

Edited to add: And if you feel the need to protest, have at it. Not that your leaders will listen to a word you have to say anyway.

I fired the first shot. This was it. I am not military or SOFA so this is as much as I am going to do.

[z's inmate#2341]

dk, you are correct about the army/filipina case. according to an owner of several juicy bars that I know, she is not pressing charges. In fact there wasnt any rape involved. this is as of a week or so ago.

[dk]

lol... I should work in weather.

[Fonze]

questin for dk. How are you today?

[dk]

A little busy, but not feeling bad. How are you?

[Fonze]

Headache, itchy stuffed nose:o. One kid with a fever, the other with the runs:crying:.
We did go to the flea market and made $270:thumbup:. So i say pretty good.

[dk]

Daaaaaayum dude. I've got less than a dollar in my wallet right now...

Payday is Tuesday though, but come on, it's the weekend and I can't even buy beer!!! Time to beg the wife for money again lol.

[P_chan]

To dk:

How dare you have an opinion that goes against the US military!:D

[dk]

To dk:

How dare you have an opinion that goes against the US military!:D
I don't know if I've ever had an opinion that goes WITH the US military. :o

[Kitty Meow]

DK:

Just curious about your avatar, what are you cutting there?

[Isaak Brodsky]

DK:

Just curious about your avatar, what are you cutting there?

Let me take a stab at this one first. The gentleman featured in the image is splitting beef - a knock on AR theorists.

[Fonze]

http://www.filetmignons.info/wp-content/uploads/2006/01/cow-cuts-diagram.jpg

[Isaak Brodsky]

Let me also add, Kitty Meow ... you have a totally cool pen-name and avatar.

[Kitty Meow]

Let me take a stab at this one first. The gentleman featured in the image is splitting beef - a knock on AR theorists.

Just making sure!

Let me also add, Kitty Meow ... you have a totally cool pen-name and avatar.

Lol thank you! I like to say Meow all the time. :p

[Isaak Brodsky]

... Embrace outrage means don't just do what many are doing and push this off as if nothing ever happened. Be pissed off. After talking to someone affected by this lockdown, the person told me, "at least this will all be over soon" and wasn't angry anymore about being unfairly punished. ...

Just seems to me that it'd be much better to reject the outrageous wholesale punishment of all those under SOFA. Maybe focus outrage on some third party - whomever that may be??

Someone on this forum observed recently that SOFA folks are effectively just sheep. Maybe your point here, dk, is to encourage sheep to stray from the fold, so to speak, and to confront the wolves that freely impose their will on the flock. Am I readin' you right here?

Anyhoo, I think that the issue is much too complex to be spouting off all of this pent up anxiety over a week or two of confinement. Maybe the General will be moved to devise alternative means of encouraging compliance to his policies - maybe not. I agree that something must be said so that this method of widespread punnishment will remain a part of history the next time something happens. But, as I've been saying all along, the military is NOT a democracy. It is an aristocracy, and it just so happens that the General now on the seat of power here wears three silver stars instead of rubies and emeralds.

[dk]

Let me also add, Kitty Meow ... you have a totally cool pen-name and avatar.
I second that. :)

[Rachel]

Assuming this lockdown is lifted, does anyone posting here want to stoke up more violence? I would like to ask this question especially to MR DK, who seems inclined in this direction. As for me, I would rather you American soldiers went back to your own country now and forever, and leave us alone. We managed for centuries without you, and look forward to doing without you again in the extremely near future. Tomorrow is not a day too soon, and since your war economy is almost bankrupt anyway, anyone with any brains knows we won't have to wait too long. Failing that, you guys can carry on stewing on the base and abusing members of your own families instead of ours. We didn't vote to pay for the consequences of your PTSD: you Americans did! See George W. Bush for more on this matter. On the other hand, if you're talking about a mutiny, I know many people here will support it. We also hate the war crimes the US military has been forced to commit in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, and detest the fact that our once-tranquil island has been used as a platform to perpetrate them. Let's stick up for life, liberty and freedom and say がんばってor go to hell, whatever the case may be!

[Tanimaga]

and since your war economy is almost bankrupt anyway, anyone with any brains knows we won't have to wait too long.


Didn't we all just get a payraise? :thumbup:

[Muku]

Rachel.....

http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20021223_05_mistake.gif

[P_chan]

Assuming this lockdown is lifted, does anyone posting here want to stoke up more violence? I would like to ask this question especially to MR DK, who seems inclined in this direction. As for me, I would rather you American soldiers went back to your own country now and forever, and leave us alone. We managed for centuries without you, and look forward to doing without you again in the extremely near future. Tomorrow is not a day too soon, and since your war economy is almost bankrupt anyway, anyone with any brains knows we won't have to wait too long. Failing that, you guys can carry on stewing on the base and abusing members of your own families instead of ours. We didn't vote to pay for the consequences of your PTSD: you Americans did! See George W. Bush for more on this matter. On the other hand, if you're talking about a mutiny, I know many people here will support it. We also hate the war crimes the US military has been forced to commit in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, and detest the fact that our once-tranquil island has been used as a platform to perpetrate them. Let's stick up for life, liberty and freedom and say がんばってor go to hell, whatever the case may be!


Seems like one of those notes the anti base chicken shits leave on my car.

[Tanimaga]

Rachel...

How much is Brom nowadays? I heard it was making a comeback.

[Isaak Brodsky]

...probably cheaper than crack.

[dk]

Assuming this lockdown is lifted, does anyone posting here want to stoke up more violence? I would like to ask this question especially to MR DK, who seems inclined in this direction.
More violence? What violence? So far 2 out of 4 of the criminal cases were a complete waste of police time. What violence are you talking about?

[DougP]

Assuming this lockdown is lifted, does anyone posting here want to stoke up more violence? I would like to ask this question especially to MR DK, who seems inclined in this direction. As for me, I would rather you American soldiers went back to your own country now and forever, and leave us alone. We managed for centuries without you, and look forward to doing without you again in the extremely near future. Tomorrow is not a day too soon, and since your war economy is almost bankrupt anyway, anyone with any brains knows we won't have to wait too long. Failing that, you guys can carry on stewing on the base and abusing members of your own families instead of ours. We didn't vote to pay for the consequences of your PTSD: you Americans did! See George W. Bush for more on this matter. On the other hand, if you're talking about a mutiny, I know many people here will support it. We also hate the war crimes the US military has been forced to commit in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, and detest the fact that our once-tranquil island has been used as a platform to perpetrate them. Let's stick up for life, liberty and freedom and say がんばってor go to hell, whatever the case may be!

Thank you for your prejudice and lack of goodwill towards others. Your ability to lump others into one group without actually taking the time to get to know them is astounding. I personally find it difficult to make sweeping generalizations like that. Never once have I ever been able to collectively describe a particular group in a negative way. You may be on to something. Ignorance is bliss and we could all use a little bit of "bliss" right now.:)

[P_chan]

More violence? What violence? So far 2 out of 4 of the criminal cases were a complete waste of police time. What violence are you talking about?

There is no point in asking her questions, she's probably not coming back.

[Isaak Brodsky]

On one hand, I can see Rachel’s points; on another the approach here paints every foreigner with the same broad stroke. You can argue equally well, I suppose, that the present arrangement of geo-politics was set in motion by our grandfathers. Who can justifiably be blamed for the present American strategy in Asia? Both America and Japan. Both parties are complicit here: (a) America for maintaining such a lopsided presence on this tiny island, and (b) Japan for goading Okinawa into accepting such a massive foreign contingent. Imagine how Americans would feel if China or Korea maintained garrisons in Bermuda. Geo-political relationships are under constant revision. Maybe its time the US and Japan took another more introspective look at its ties.

[P_chan]

.....Where do babies come from?

[TheLastDon]

Where do newbie ignorant people come from?:scared:

[okisteve]

Imagine how Americans would feel if China or Korea maintained garrisons in Bermuda. Geo-political relationships are under constant revision. Maybe its time the US and Japan took another more introspective look at its ties.

Yep, I recall that we got a little antsy when there were Soviet missiles in Cuba.

[Sex Wax]

Dear dk,
Would you be so kinds as to buy me some Gyros and deliver them to my prison of residence...err...place of residence?

[okisteve]

Is this what it's all about - CHICKEN gyros?????

[Sex Wax]

Them chicken Gyros is tasty also. I'll take either one. :thumbup:

[KumaNoPooh]

Its funny that person failed to mentioned Japan in all of that talk about war crimes, I think we should ask korea, china, and for that fact most of the pacific for there opinon.

[ryukyuboi]

Japan's military presence on Okinawa is very small compared to that of the US military today. If the OP is Okinawan, there is probably no love for Japanese militarism either.

[Rachel]

Since burgers and guns take priority over health and education in most walks (or should that be drive-ins and drive-byes) of life in the US, I suppose I shouldn't have been so surprised that most people on this forum were unable to understand my first message. A couple of years ago I had the privilege to listen to a real American hero, Alan Nelson, talk about how the marines trained him to kill but not how to bring life into this world. Any American here who is pro-life because they are against war and against killing is a friend of Okinawa and the world. As I wrote in my last message, good luck to them. As for those who support the US military presence in Okinawa and the crimes it is responsible for here and around the world, please refer back to the end of my last message.

[DougP]

Since burgers and guns take priority over health and education in most walks (or should that be drive-ins and drive-byes) of life in the US, I suppose I shouldn't have been so surprised that most people on this forum were unable to understand my first message. A couple of years ago I had the privilege to listen to a real American hero, Alan Nelson, talk about how the marines trained him to kill but not how to bring life into this world. Any American here who is pro-life because they are against war and against killing is a friend of Okinawa and the world. As I wrote in my last message, good luck to them. As for those who support the US military presence in Okinawa and the crimes it is responsible for here and around the world, please refer back to the end of my last message.

and please refer back to my reply to your last message. Bigotry is not a useful instrument in any conversation.

[Tanimaga]

I'm very interested in what your talking about Rachel. Please attend the next JU function so we can all discuss these things!

[TheLastDon]

Yeah Rachel keep posting away and insulting members, that will get you far.

[dk]

Dear dk,
Would you be so kinds as to buy me some Gyros and deliver them to my prison of residence...err...place of residence?
Dude, I brought some gyros to the gate for you today but you didn't show up. What's up with that?

[Crazysix]

DK I have a question...If a tree fell in the woods and no one was around to hear it would still make a sound???? And rachel I love guns, hot women, motorcycles and alcohol..does this make me a bad person?????I am going to hell or am I gonna manage a department....I want soul torture and disembowelment .....cheers

[afansi]

So are we all supposed to think that the aggrieved party in this instance is the US military, GI Joe, the average American, or in fact, anyone except the young girl and her family, who are the real victims?

Is anyone really so deluded they think this whole story was made up by communists and terrorists or 'Okis'?

Has it ever crossed anyone's mind that pursuing this case might just be a bit much for a fourteen year old girl who will certainly be haunted by it for the rest of her life?

I'm sure the girl's family is also consumed with questions about whether they could have done more to prevent what happened.

It's not "Soviet Okinawa" but US military occupied Okinawa which chooses to ignore these questions, and instead to blame her for what happened and scratch around for any excuse to absolve its own from taking responsibility for their own actions.

Thanks Muku and Rachel and a few others for bringing some sanity to bear over all this.

[P_chan]

So are we all supposed to think that the aggrieved party in this instance is the US military, GI Joe, the average American, or in fact, anyone except the young girl and her family, who are the real victims?

Is anyone really so deluded they think this whole story was made up by communists and terrorists or 'Okis'?

Has it ever crossed anyone's mind that pursuing this case might just be a bit much for a fourteen year old girl who will certainly be haunted by it for the rest of her life?

I'm sure the girl's family is also consumed with questions about whether they could have done more to prevent what happened.

It's not "Soviet Okinawa" but US military occupied Okinawa which chooses to ignore these questions, and instead to blame her for what happened and scratch around for any excuse to absolve its own from taking responsibility for their own actions.

Thanks Muku and Rachel and a few others for bringing some sanity to bear over all this.

I don't think anyone has came out and said it was her fault. Well, let me correct that, MOST people know they're both to blame for this incident.

As far as "Soviet Okinawa", a little internet humor never hurt anyone. Except those with thin skin, and thick heads.

[Tony Stacks]

So are we all supposed to think that the aggrieved party in this instance is the US military, GI Joe, the average American, or in fact, anyone except the young girl and her family, who are the real victims?

Is anyone really so deluded they think this whole story was made up by communists and terrorists or 'Okis'?

Has it ever crossed anyone's mind that pursuing this case might just be a bit much for a fourteen year old girl who will certainly be haunted by it for the rest of her life?

I'm sure the girl's family is also consumed with questions about whether they could have done more to prevent what happened.

It's not "Soviet Okinawa" but US military occupied Okinawa which chooses to ignore these questions, and instead to blame her for what happened and scratch around for any excuse to absolve its own from taking responsibility for their own actions.

Thanks Muku and Rachel and a few others for bringing some sanity to bear over all this.






Wow! So you KNOW for a FACT that he is guilty. Just because the news says he admitted to something means her did? The news never lies huh?:rolleyes:

[Crazysix]

So are we all supposed to think that the aggrieved party in this instance is the US military, GI Joe, the average American, or in fact, anyone except the young girl and her family, who are the real victims?

Is anyone really so deluded they think this whole story was made up by communists and terrorists or 'Okis'?

Has it ever crossed anyone's mind that pursuing this case might just be a bit much for a fourteen year old girl who will certainly be haunted by it for the rest of her life?

I'm sure the girl's family is also consumed with questions about whether they could have done more to prevent what happened.

It's not "Soviet Okinawa" but US military occupied Okinawa which chooses to ignore these questions, and instead to blame her for what happened and scratch around for any excuse to absolve its own from taking responsibility for their own actions.

Thanks Muku and Rachel and a few others for bringing some sanity to bear over all this.
You actually beleve everything the news here sales damn you are gonna have hard time....she was a slut and he was an idiot plain and simple...now back to porn

[Fonze]

It's not "Soviet Okinawa" but US military occupied Okinawa which chooses to ignore these questions, and instead to blame her for what happened and scratch around for any excuse to absolve its own from taking responsibility for their own actions..

It could easily have been a Soviet Okinawa if the big bad GI's din't occupy and feed these retarted farm folk that believed we were devils in WWII. Imagine all the freedoms those occupiers would have granted you. What a beatiful place this would have been.

Sorry dk for fudging up your shit.

[dk]

It could easily have been a Soviet Okinawa if the big bad GI's din't occupy and feed these retarted farm folk that believed we were devils in WWII. Imagine all the freedoms those occupiers would have granted you. What a beatiful place this would have been.

Sorry dk for fudging up your shit.
Doesn't bother me. The thread concluded after my first reply. :p

[dk]

DK I have a question...If a tree fell in the woods and no one was around to hear it would still make a sound????
Of course it would! Duuuuuuhhhh!

[DougP]

Of course it would! Duuuuuuhhhh!

No not if you had the volume turned down way low or your sound card wasn't working... sheesh:rolleyes::argh3:

[P_chan]

......why do I rack a disciprine?

[Mad Hatter]

Assuming this lockdown is lifted, does anyone posting here want to stoke up more violence? I would like to ask this question especially to MR DK, who seems inclined in this direction. As for me, I would rather you American soldiers went back to your own country now and forever, and leave us alone. We managed for centuries without you, and look forward to doing without you again in the extremely near future. Tomorrow is not a day too soon, and since your war economy is almost bankrupt anyway, anyone with any brains knows we won't have to wait too long. Failing that, you guys can carry on stewing on the base and abusing members of your own families instead of ours. We didn't vote to pay for the consequences of your PTSD: you Americans did! See George W. Bush for more on this matter. On the other hand, if you're talking about a mutiny, I know many people here will support it. We also hate the war crimes the US military has been forced to commit in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, and detest the fact that our once-tranquil island has been used as a platform to perpetrate them. Let's stick up for life, liberty and freedom and say がんばってor go to hell, whatever the case may be!

Maybe I can't read good, speak much English more gooder than the next quy... but did your long, lame, unedgamactacted response have a question in it or did you just want use to be more dumber for reading that long line of crap? HAPPY POSTING!! :D

[Mad Hatter]

Dear dk,
Would you be so kinds as to buy me some Gyros and deliver them to my prison of residence...err...place of residence?

Dude i told ya i would, but Gyros is closed because of the lockdown... now go pee in a cup you PHEN:D

[dk]

I don't think I've ever eaten a Gyro. Is that the term in singular format?

MH, lets go get some Gyros when they re-open. I'm hucking fungry.

[Mad Hatter]

You got it man... by the way, you only need two more people to log in with the next 22 minutes and you will have 600 today

[dk]

I noticed that. :)

[Isaak Brodsky]

Since burgers and guns take priority over health and education in most walks (or should that be drive-ins and drive-byes) of life in the US, I suppose I shouldn't have been so surprised that most people on this forum were unable to understand my first message. A couple of years ago I had the privilege to listen to a real American hero, Alan Nelson, talk about how the marines trained him to kill but not how to bring life into this world. Any American here who is pro-life because they are against war and against killing is a friend of Okinawa and the world. As I wrote in my last message, good luck to them. As for those who support the US military presence in Okinawa and the crimes it is responsible for here and around the world, please refer back to the end of my last message.

Sure, it is easy to state the obvious that the US is the fattest nation on earth, perhaps in the history of civilization, and that education has clearly taken a back seat to a widespread fascination with professional and amateur athletics, and that a plethora of legal and illicit intoxicants have poisoned the minds of generations, BUT you must also realize, Rachel, that America’s incredible ills are due in large part to its incredible prosperity. With great prosperity come untold excesses in terms of fat consumption and creative chemical experimentation as well as a rise in demand for 24-hour entertainment and related forms of mass media mediocrity.

I sense from the various responses to your post here that folks have construed your words as a direct attack on every single American, as though we were all fat and over-medicated willing cogs in the military’s war machines and blind and enthusiastic supporters of America’s strategic agenda.

Most folks here, seems to me, who take immediate issue with what seems a hasty insinuation feel like pawns too because the system is set up in such a way that ordinary citizens feel only a remote connection to real self-sustaining socio-economic power. We’re made to consume things because consumption creates for our neighbors only an illusion of wealth. As a decent college education remains out of reach for so many people, one alternative way in which to participate in the consumer market is to join forces with the Machine which guarantees education. Most folks I knew when I served the Machine were decent law-abiding hard-working citizens. Doesn’t seem to be an entirely accurate portrait so far painted here.

[proudtobnotpc]

Sure, it is easy to state the obvious that the US is the fattest nation on earth, perhaps in the history of civilization, and that education has clearly taken a back seat to a widespread fascination with professional and amateur athletics, and that a plethora of legal and illicit intoxicants have poisoned the minds of generations, BUT you must also realize, Rachel, that America’s incredible ills are due in large part to its incredible prosperity. With great prosperity come untold excesses in terms of fat consumption and creative chemical experimentation as well as a rise in demand for 24-hour entertainment and related forms of mass media mediocrity.

I sense from the various responses to your post here that folks have construed your words as a direct attack on every single American, as though we were all fat and over-medicated willing cogs in the military’s war machines and blind and enthusiastic supporters of America’s strategic agenda.

Most folks here, seems to me, who take immediate issue with what seems a hasty insinuation feel like pawns too because the system is set up in such a way that ordinary citizens feel only a remote connection to real self-sustaining socio-economic power. We’re made to consume things because consumption creates for our neighbors only an illusion of wealth. As a decent college education remains out of reach for so many people, one alternative way in which to participate in the consumer market is to join forces with the Machine which guarantees education. Most folks I knew when I served the Machine were decent law-abiding hard-working citizens. Doesn’t seem to be an entirely accurate portrait so far painted here.

I'm sorry can you give me the short version of this?

[Isaak Brodsky]

I'm sorry can you give me the short version of this?

I've just given a supremely condensed impression of Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent. A three-hundred page tome in three paragraphs. Cheers.

[Crazysix]

Assuming this lockdown is lifted, does anyone posting here want to stoke up more violence? I would like to ask this question especially to MR DK, who seems inclined in this direction. As for me, I would rather you American soldiers went back to your own country now and forever, and leave us alone. We managed for centuries without you, and look forward to doing without you again in the extremely near future. Tomorrow is not a day too soon, and since your war economy is almost bankrupt anyway, anyone with any brains knows we won't have to wait too long. Failing that, you guys can carry on stewing on the base and abusing members of your own families instead of ours. We didn't vote to pay for the consequences of your PTSD: you Americans did! See George W. Bush for more on this matter. On the other hand, if you're talking about a mutiny, I know many people here will support it. We also hate the war crimes the US military has been forced to commit in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, and detest the fact that our once-tranquil island has been used as a platform to perpetrate them. Let's stick up for life, liberty and freedom and say がんばってor go to hell, whatever the case may be!
wow spoken with eloquence of true ass backward potato farmer, as long as your govt wants us here , here is where we stay, As far violence goes, if one of you inbred rice eaters even think of raising a hand to my family or me then well you can guess the rest . You have you opinions and we have ours. Do I look down on the Japanese...yes i do. In a society that predates the US by hundreds of years, you still have no sense of national pride or individualism. Your young want to be American , Your Old you push aside and then when the next generation comes along, no one teaches them a damn thing ,they become like your possessions not family. You shove them aside to make decisions on their own and with out guidance you get what we had happen a few weeks ago. You live in a bubble thinking you live in utopia, when this place is just a step up from some third world shit holes Ive been to. But your right we should leave your country, so the Okinawans can go back to being a third class citizen w/o a country that gives a shit about them, other than food and jokes.
So good luck luck with that you idiot and kiss my American ASS:cool::cool::army::army:

[Fonze]

Well put crazy.

Ian I also like how you call it a machine as if it never has done good for anyone one on earth.

[dk]

Machines do good things for people on Earth.

[afansi]

I don't think anyone has came out and said it was her fault. Well, let me correct that, MOST people know they're both to blame for this incident.

As far as "Soviet Okinawa", a little internet humor never hurt anyone. Except those with thin skin, and thick heads.

Maybe we should forward the message to the girl's family or the local press to test your hypothesis.

[DougP]

Maybe we should forward the message to the girl's family or the local press to test your hypothesis.

Sounds good to me.. anyone have their email?:D

[Crazysix]

Maybe we should forward the message to the girl's family or the local press to test your hypothesis.
yep lets send it to her, family, friends...Im all for it

[afansi]

I can't promise anything, but I'll do what I can to make sure the views represented on this thread get out to the general public in Okinawa.

[Muku]

I don't think anyone has came out and said it was her fault. Well, let me correct that, MOST people know they're both to blame for this incident.

Ok this question is not just directed towards P Chan although I am quoting him here......

What age do you absolve a child from their actions? What percentage of "guilt" or wrong to you apportion to each side?

He is 38, she is 14, from the sound of numerous posts here, oh and this really has nothing to do with her being Japanese, and him being American either, the girl is equally responsible for what happened.

I think that there are reasons why we consider people to be adults at a certain age, here in Japan it is 20, for voting purposes in the US it is 18, because we do not hold "children" to the same standard as we do adults. That is a nobrainer in my opinion, however like I wrote here previously, I continue to view many of the posters here calling this child all sorts of names, and accusing her of actions that we honestly have no viable proof of because she is child as being misguided in their opinions and venting their anger at the wrong target.

Are people here so willing to hang her out to dry as well because of their own problems that occured due to the lockdown? Doesnt that sound the least bit like revenge. Are you, who find her so "guilty" here that hurt that you have to take your revenge and your feelings out on a misguided child?

I'm sorry but I just can not believe that all these men and women posting here dragging her down into the dirt. Granted her judgement was wrong, she made a mistake, yet why is everyone, or many here, insisting on judging her as an adult when she most definitely is not one.:cursing:

Why are you so wiling to burn a child at the stake for their errors?

[afansi]

And of course, Muku, I wouldn't be stupid enough to give this lynch mob her family's contact details, even if I knew them. At the same time, though, I think we should let people in Okinawa know what this sample of public opinion has to say about the incident. Otherwise they might be fooled into thinking that "day of reflection" or whatever it was called, did what it said on the box.

[Isaak Brodsky]

... did what it said on the box.

Sorry, Afansi, for my uninformed question, here, but what is meant by "... on the box" ??

Cheers, ib

[okisteve]

I think I can answer that - it's like saying "performed as advertised". I never heard it before either but a it's good figure of speech (note how I deftly avoid identifying what kind).

[Muku]

And of course, Muku, I wouldn't be stupid enough to give this lynch mob her family's contact details, even if I knew them. At the same time, though, I think we should let people in Okinawa know what this sample of public opinion has to say about the incident. Otherwise they might be fooled into thinking that "day of reflection" or whatever it was called, did what it said on the box.
I would like to add one other comment here to everyone that is reading here....

I truly pray that noone of the people that are posting here on this thread condemning this girl and her family for her misguided childish actions ever have to face having their child put under such venonmous scrutiny and hatred from so many different angles.

I hope that no one here condemning this girl and her family for her actions are ever faced with having to eat their own words that they have posted here.

We can only raise our children the best that we know how, but there will come a time in just about every child's life when they are faced with making a decision on their own that may not be in their best interests and in fact could alter their lives forever.

We can not keep our children under lock and key and can only hope that we have guided them and raised them to have the moral fiber to make difficult and at times unpopular decisions.

I agree with the people that want to lay the blame at the feet of the parents of this child. They are the one's more to blame in this case than the girl. Look I know what I am talking about when I say that I am responsible as well for my child's actions.

If they do wrong, I am also to blame for not preparing them to make "right" decisions. Until they are of age, my wife and I are 100% responsible for them, noone is going to take that from me, and neither would or do I expect it either. I am far from perfect but I try my best and then hope that my best is and was enough, as I have one child that is an adult and two that are not.

It's not easy raising a child, not by any means, but to me it is THE most rewarding, thankless job that I have ever had. But one I would never trade for anything. It's called love.

[Crazysix]

ok why should we reflect?, yes one person brought this on, however he was not alone in the act, All parties involved should be held accountable and after that the parents should be called into question. They were both stupid. So No i do not feel sorry for the okinawan people.....they commit crimes everyday but if a foreigner does it its headline news. SO Afansi, if you feel this is your cause, do what you want, its your right. All Okinawans I know and have talked to about this, we all agree on this point.

[The Truth™]

I would like to add one other comment here to everyone that is reading here....

I truly pray that noone of the people that are posting here on this thread condemning this girl and her family for her misguided childish actions ever have to face having their child put under such venonmous scrutiny and hatred from so many different angles.




I try to refrain from saying negative things about the girl (though I question her judgement and motives). Just like the SSgt, she is innocent until proven guilty.

There are reasons that nobody was whispering things about the truly innocent victimized girl in 1995, yet many things are said about the most recent girl. I leave those reasons up to each reader to consider.

[Bones]

As posted by "The Truth":

There are reasons that nobody was whispering things about the truly innocent victimized girl in 1995, yet many things are said about the most recent girl. I leave those reasons up to each reader to consider.

True enough, and I remember a posting not too long ago, where the local off-base PTA warned local parents about things that they may have not been aware of. Such as where is the money coming from to pay for the fancy clothes, cell phones, etc....

Truly innocent? As far as the latest rape charge leveled at Hadnot, a 38 year old man, knows how old a girl is just by looking at her. With Asian women it's sometimes difficult, but what is a 38 year old guy doing picking up girls in School uniforms?

Charges were dropped, but the investigation should continue. He's one sick puppy.

NBTP

[Isaak Brodsky]

... He is 38, she is 14, ...

Muku's gem, here, so squarely strikes at the heart of the argument.

No one can reasonably justify the non-commissioned officer's secret night-time inquiries, given the clearly obvious mismatch in emotional development, physical and intellectual.

What motivates a fully grown man to seek refuge in the sultry voluptuous curves of a post-pubescent nymph? Nothing but a depraved mind and an inability to recognize reality. The cult of cute in Japan is an illusion, and Hadnott fell for the mirage, like any thirsty predator.

[Crazysix]

Muku's gem, here, so squarely strikes at the heart of the argument.

No one can reasonably justify the non-commissioned officer's secret night-time inquiries, given the clearly obvious mismatch in emotional development, physical and intellectual.

What motivates a fully grown man to seek refuge in the sultry voluptuous curves of a post-pubescent nymph? Nothing but a depraved mind and an inability to recognize reality. The cult of cute in Japan is an illusion, and Hadnott fell for the mirage, like any thirsty predator.
this is true Ian

[Rachel]

Are you, who find her so "guilty" here that hurt that you have to take your revenge and your feelings out on a misguided child?

Is it even fair to say the girl was "misguided" without asking who or what misguided her? Maybe a good part of the answer to that is the US military's "good neighbors" policy, designed to get everyone to think the marines are really Disneyland extras in disguise.

[Crazysix]

Is it even fair to say the girl was "misguided" without asking who or what misguided her? Maybe a good part of the answer to that is the US military's "good neighbors" policy, designed to get everyone to think the marines are really Disneyland extras in disguise.
whatever, maybe her sorry ass parents didnt give a damn about where or what their precious little angel was doing.......
As far as misguided goes, Americans do not guide okinawan households, or did you forget....and what disney land did you go to cupcake where mickey mouse carries an m-16????? weirdo

[Isaak Brodsky]

... to think the marines are really Disneyland extras in disguise.

Strange paradox at work here. Highly-trained, highly-mobile and motivated fighting force doubles as run-of-the-mill next-door neighbors. In all fairness to those trained to send rounds down range, it is sometimes not easy to pull Ronald McDonald out of John Wayne.

[The Truth™]

As posted by "The Truth":



Truly innocent? As far as the latest rape charge leveled at Hadnot, a 38 year old man, knows how old a girl is just by looking at her. With Asian women it's sometimes difficult, but what is a 38 year old guy doing picking up girls in School uniforms?



I'm not sure what you mean with the question mark. (I was referring to the girl in 1995 with that remark). It's also been said about 1000 times that there is no account showing the girl was wearing a school uniform. They usually don't wear them on a Sunday evening.

[The Truth™]

Is it even fair to say the girl was "misguided" without asking who or what misguided her? Maybe a good part of the answer to that is the US military's "good neighbors" policy, designed to get everyone to think the marines are really Disneyland extras in disguise.


Now you really are insulting the locals by assuming they are that stupid. I like a good exaggeration, but only when it's tongue in cheek. I'm afraid you actually believe your own nonsense, here.

[Rachel]

whatever, maybe her sorry ass parents didnt give a damn about where or what their precious little angel was doing.......
As far as misguided goes, Americans do not guide okinawan households, or did you forget....and what disney land did you go to cupcake where mickey mouse carries an m-16????? weirdo

So does that mean that any girl out after dark should blame her 'sorry ass' parents when the same thing happens again? It's 8.20pm, and my friend who is a high school teacher here just called me to say she had finished club activities at her school. Hundreds, if not thousands, of elementary and junior high school students are attending juku, and plenty of high school students have part time jobs they'll be walking home from.

If any of these people are abducted by a thirty-something US marine on the way home, should they blame their 'sorry ass parents,' or someone else?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the good neighbor policy doesn't include having marines wandering the streets brandishing m-16s.

And by the way, what's with this "cupcake" thing?

The sad fact is that this incident, and others like it, do mean that Americans guide Okinawan households who might otherwise have felt the streets were safe.

That's one reason why the 'lock-down' was the minimum gesture the US military could get away with given the anger this has generated.

And while we're at it, since the US military has created gated communities for itself which cover 25% of this island, what's the big deal about making sure they stick to their own occupied territories until they eventually clear off?

[Anterrabae]

......until they eventually clear off?

http://smiliesftw.com/x/hsugh.gifwat?

[Isaak Brodsky]

http://smiliesftw.com/x/hsugh.gifwat?


Your "wat," I presume, represents a need for clarification in Rachel's last post?

[TheNoNamedOne]

And while we're at it, since the US military has created gated communities for itself which cover 25% of this island, what's the big deal about making sure they stick to their own occupied territories until they eventually clear off?

Good point, Rachel.

Perhaps the military family housing areas should be ungated so that Japanese nationals can roam through them just as military persons are permitted to roam through Japanese residential areas. I think that would be rather fair.

Perhaps the only gated areas with security should be those areas with sensitive equipment vital to war fighting.

[Mad Hatter]

Good point, Rachel.

Perhaps the military family housing areas should be ungated so that Japanese nationals can roam through them just as military persons are permitted to roam through Japanese residential areas. I think that would be rather fair.

Perhaps the only gated areas with security should be those areas with sensitive equipment vital to war fighting.

Why, so the next time some child hookin on Gate 2 and screams rape, the Japanese "300" can march up to base housing and protest there? Maybe key a few cars, throw some eggs or roll some yards? God for bid they do something more than that to require a show of military force.

We are guest here, but we are also PROTECTOR. We protect the Japanese from other countries that would love to take this little island over.

And for all those that say that we need to go, The Japanese are the reason that we are over here. If they wouldn't have pulled that BS to start WWII, then we might not be over here right now. But as we all know, America don't play that way. Not only will we teach you a lesson and spank that ass, but we'll help you out when we are done.

Let that swim around in ya head for a minute before you say "gajin go home"

[TheNoNamedOne]

Why, so the next time some child hookin on Gate 2 and screams rape, the Japanese "300" can march up to base housing and protest there? Maybe key a few cars, throw some eggs or roll some yards? God for bid they do something more than that to require a show of military force.

But not all Japanese would do that. Only a few. Or, is your argument that a few is what makes it ok to punish the whole and makes it ok to keep them out of that community? If so, then the few military or SOFA status who have committed crimes against Japanese in Japanese communities, makes it ok to keep all the Americans on base and out of the local community -- hence keeping them on base like Rachel and Gen Zilmer have done.

You seem to be using prejudicial reasoning here, madhatter.

[Mad Hatter]

That's because I'm a prejudicial type of guy! I'm all about me and mine. Then I'm about helping and the cares of others.

So what your saying is that we are punishing the Okinawans for not letting them roam through the bases?

Now that you picked apart the first part of my post... please... continue

[TheLastDon]

ungated?!? What language is that?:p

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

We are guest here, but we are also PROTECTOR. We protect the Japanese from other countries that would love to take this little island over.

Could you tell us some of those countries? I think the Ruskies took back some of the Kuril islands north of Hokkaido the Japanese had gained back in 1904-5. Korea got most of its territory back after WWII, and though the Ryukyu Kingdom was a tributary state to the Chinese before annexation by the Japanese in 1879, it was never occupied or claimed by the Chinese. What country would like to occupy Okinawa MH?

[Mad Hatter]

The United States


You think that the Japanese can fend off all threats: foreign and domestic?

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

So the US is protecting Okinawa/Japan from Americans. Absolutely brilliant. Kinda like the clusterfvck in Iraq. Everyone loves you there too, huh!

[TheNoNamedOne]

That's because I'm a prejudicial type of guy! I'm all about me and mine. Then I'm about helping and the cares of others.

That seems apparent. So, if prejudicial reasoning is fine with you and or others, then you and they shouldn't cry foul when it is used against you from a stronger position.

So what your saying is that we are punishing the Okinawans for not letting them roam through the bases?

Well, you are the one who put forth the point that having lost WW2, the Japanese have brought the present situation upon themselves with us here.

Japanese society is less violent than American society, so SOFA and military communities on base, such as residential areas, should feel quite safe with Japanese being able to have access to their residential areas, like driving through them to shorten routes between their movements, or jogging through them or using some of their commercial, entertainment, and recreational facilities -- which are all non mission critical to war fighting.

Now that you picked apart the first part of my post... please... continue

I thought the other parts were so hilarious, that another poster would soon tear it apart and save me the time from having to focus on all of it. But, if someone does not, I may come back to it soon to do so. We'll see.

[Mad Hatter]

What country would like to occupy Okinawa MH?

I'm sorry I forgot the quote button... didn't mean to state an opinion without the quote button to see what question i was answering.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

The United States


You think that the Japanese can fend off all threats: foreign and domestic?
Since you've tried to change tack, unable to name a foreign power with its eyes on occupying Okinawa, pray tell what domestic groups threaten the stability of Japan? Don't tell me the Amur River Society is still active?!

[Mad Hatter]

Guys... TP and Bruce... I really could care less what happens to this countries. I very randomly come into to thread and post very little, but I really don't care. You both know this, because I have told both of you before.

You act like your Americans, attitude wise, but I don't know. The only thing that gets me is that your so damn Anti-American that it makes me wonder. Flammers, you can keep your little crappy island. I mean I married out here and it was great for the time that i've been out here. If you want to make this your home, that's cool too. This would be a cool place to retire... but I'm all about the USA. I'm going back, I'm just waitin around till I can.

So until then, put me on your ignore list, or do whatever it is that that you do... just do me a favor...

Can you take two steps back and GET OFF MY NUTS!

[TheNoNamedOne]

No one said anything negative about your person, madhatter. No flaming whatsoever. Your argument was addressed and you have failed to defend your argument.

Has nothing to do with liking or hating the United States.

Can you take two steps back and GET OFF MY NUTS!

Sounds like sour grapes from someone who just can't defend his opinion.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Just wondering if you mean anything you say. What evidence or logical reasoning brought you to this way of thinking?

[TheLastDon]

You guys just got sucked ino the world of the Mad Hatter. Don't ou get it? Look at the user name Mad Hatter. :D

[s-pAH]

Japanese society is less violent than American society, so SOFA and military communities on base, such as residential areas, should feel quite safe with Japanese being able to have access to their residential areas, like driving through them to shorten routes between their movements, or jogging through them or using some of their commercial, entertainment, and recreational facilities -- which are all non mission critical to war fighting.


I'm not sure if you're American or Okinawan by the way you communicate but even english-readers can gain access to local news. I'm assuming that when you say "Japanese society...." you are including the island of Okinawa. If you were to look at the local news you would know that Okinawa and Mainland Japan have the same crime we have in our own country. 14 year old girl and 18 year old playmates beat a 15 year old girl for 5 hours because she refused to play with them, Okinawan grandfather impregnates 14 year old granddaughter, woman found in street, murdered....there's a ton more that happens here, the same that happens in America. I've read these types of stories and was shocked because before arriving here I had the same misconception you apparently do- that Japanese (in this case Okinawans) are a much more disciplined and peaceful people than we aggressive and arrogant Americans are. Not so. Unfortunately not even this beautiful, well-placed island is not the Utopia we thought it was.

[Crazysix]

So does that mean that any girl out after dark should blame her 'sorry ass' parents when the same thing happens again? It's 8.20pm, and my friend who is a high school teacher here just called me to say she had finished club activities at her school. Hundreds, if not thousands, of elementary and junior high school students are attending juku, and plenty of high school students have part time jobs they'll be walking home from.

If any of these people are abducted by a thirty-something US marine on the way home, should they blame their 'sorry ass parents,' or someone else?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the good neighbor policy doesn't include having marines wandering the streets brandishing m-16s.

And by the way, what's with this "cupcake" thing?

The sad fact is that this incident, and others like it, do mean that Americans guide Okinawan households who might otherwise have felt the streets were safe.

That's one reason why the 'lock-down' was the minimum gesture the US military could get away with given the anger this has generated.

And while we're at it, since the US military has created gated communities for itself which cover 25% of this island, what's the big deal about making sure they stick to their own occupied territories until they eventually clear off?

1. Time has nothing to do with it. She was dumb enough to jump on a total strangers motorcycle, so I guess common sense is out the window. Any parent who doesnt educate their child about the dangers in their social surroundings is pretty sorry or just doesnt care. As I remember most okinawan parent have no Idea where there child is after school. I mean even your own people were shocked when the PTA went out on the hunt last week. The places they hung out , the activites ect. So Yes the parents are partially to blame. So tell your teacher friend to teach them common sense and self respect, it seems from the actions of your youth no one else is

2. Good neighbor policy goes both ways...what happened to the filipino janitor(a resident alien), that "touched" the 8y/o in school on base. What happened to the cabbie the killed the american and fled the scene, a few years ago???? Why is we never hear what happens to these people????? What about the young punks that scream insults like NIGGER GO HOME, GO BACK TO AFRICA, HEY MONKEY GO BACK TO THE JUNGLE....oh yeah you people are excellent neighbors. What about the money ,time and effort given by base, to support he ameraisan school, these kids are your people and you cast them off into a subpar education, that should be held to the same standard as all the others.

3. cupcake is a nice way of saying bitch

4. We created bases with gates for security reasons ...god knows we dont want some dumbass okinawan wandering onto the range and getting killed. Why should we stick to our own communities? Its part of the joy of being in foreign country, going out and meeting people and experiencing the culture, I guess by your tone you would want us to that. You demand total separation of your race.

5. As far feeling safe on your own streets, that too is a joke. Your crimerate is much higher than that of Sofa personnel. It seems your people love to rape each other, children killing parents and siblings, dumping your bastard children in dumpsters, what an example to set. Safe LOL. Base is much safer. As for the lockdown that was mistake, to try to appease the unappeasable and you mentioned anger about the incident, We were not exactly laughing about this situation but it did not warrant a LOCKDOWN. I bet your mayors feel pretty stupid when he walked out of the police station free from a japanese indictment . So yes you are not innocent victims,naive but not innocent.

6. You hate Americans, and use the base as crutch for this. SO just come out and say it, be honest. SO when/if we are gone, who is he next target of your hate?? all foreigners left behind??

[Mad Hatter]

You called me prejudice. Just because I love my country and the things that pertain to it. I submitted one post... and you and the bruce almighty tear into it... the fact that I'm try to state is that it would NOT be good policy to allow just anyone to come onto bases just because the base is in Japan. How do we know that one of the Japanese aren't terrorist in disguise? Unlikely, but are you willing to bet your life that nothing would ever come of opening the gates like you describe?

And as for other countries that have their greedy little eyes on Okinawa... You don't think that North Korea would be interested in Japan or China... or anyone else? Does Okinawa even have ballistic missiles anymore? They are a defense force with little numbers in their ranks. You don't think that having American bases over here is a nice show of force and a strategic location for American forces?

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Just wondering if he (MH) can share with who has been responsible for more deaths in Japan since the end of WWII - the USFJ, or Aum Shin-rikyo, one of the more dangerous cults in post-war times. Domestic threats, help us out Hatter!

[Mad Hatter]

OHHHH I get it now... so if it's not in the news or the paper... it isn't real? MainLand Japanese (from the stories that i've heard) use to kill Okinawans for speaking hogan. Mass deaths by your own country. I guess the okinawans should be happy that they have strong willed people like you and TP to protect them from their fellow Country men.

That is, if the USFJ isn't the direct source for every wrong doing on Japan.

[TheNoNamedOne]

You called me prejudice.

No, I called the reasoning you were employing was prejudiced. Here, to refresh your memory from post #86, I think it was:

You seem to be using prejudicial reasoning here, madhatter.

... the fact that I'm try to state is that it would NOT be good policy to allow just anyone to come onto bases just because the base is in Japan. How do we know that one of the Japanese aren't terrorist in disguise? Unlikely, but are you willing to bet your life that nothing would ever come of opening the gates like you describe?

Is it good policy to just allow anyone from the military or SOFA status personnel and their families just to come into Japanese communities because their base is in Japan? How do you know that one of them are not murderers or rapists in disguise as normal and not possessing criminal intent? Unlikely, but are you willing to bet your life and the lives of Okinawans that nothing would ever come from such a gamble that you seem ok with with the present status quo of one way access? Apparently you are!

Why can't the reverse gamble be expected by the military and SOFA status personnel as it pertains to their residential areas?

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

We've gone from stories of Okinawan school-children forced to wear signs that were the equivalents of dunce-caps for speaking Uchinaguchi, to MH's allegations they were killed for using their local language...anyone else have stories like that? So, when the debate isn't going your way, raise the stakes (and the tales - they weren't tall enough, anyway).

[s-pAH]

It seems that we've all forgotten that there probably are very few Americans that actually asked to be here and for the ones that did, they wouldn't have if we (America) hadn't been attacked on our own soil while we were off fighting in Europe. The heads of our respective governments made the arrangements for us to occupy this island for strategic reasons and here we are trying to enjoy life away from our own families and culture that we are much more comfortable with. As a result of that the Okinawans see a wide range of personalities coping with being in a different country for long periods of time. Some of us do nothing but sit in our houses/rooms and play on the internet and gripe that we've found ourselves so bored. Others of us make the best of it and go out into the local communities in search of activities that will teach us about the culture we find ourselves in, becoming friends with local people. And then there are the 10% that were destined to be in trouble no matter what they do because that is how people and cultures are made.

Not making light of the current social climate but this most recent lockdown is just another "scolding" we Americans receive when some of the 10%ers have made enough trouble that we need to remind ourselves that this isn't our country and we need to behave ourselves. It's all in the spirit of preventing those that might have allowed themselves to fall into the category of the 10%er to see the light and pull them back into the 90% of us that want to enjoy life without inconveniencing or offending our neighbors.

[s-pAH]

I see some of the members voice their opinions in a very anti-Okinawan/Japanese tone and its no wonder other members are very anti-American. This forum is a reflection of what happens outside of the internet, in the real world we share here on Okinawa, and its no wonder we're not happy with the way we behave as neighbors. Its just unfortunate that the extremists on both sides are the ones being highlighted in the media, ultimately persuading the thoughts and ideas of the people that only listen to/watch the news. I'm fairly new to the island but I have detected a noticeable change in demeanor of Okinawans towards me from now and the time I arrived. I don't blame them but it sure sucks.

[grid123456]

Assuming this lockdown is lifted, does anyone posting here want to stoke up more violence? I would like to ask this question especially to MR DK, who seems inclined in this direction. As for me, I would rather you American soldiers went back to your own country now and forever, and leave us alone. We managed for centuries without you, and look forward to doing without you again in the extremely near future. Tomorrow is not a day too soon, and since your war economy is almost bankrupt anyway, anyone with any brains knows we won't have to wait too long. Failing that, you guys can carry on stewing on the base and abusing members of your own families instead of ours. We didn't vote to pay for the consequences of your PTSD: you Americans did! See George W. Bush for more on this matter. On the other hand, if you're talking about a mutiny, I know many people here will support it. We also hate the war crimes the US military has been forced to commit in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, and detest the fact that our once-tranquil island has been used as a platform to perpetrate them. Let's stick up for life, liberty and freedom and say がんばってor go to hell, whatever the case may be!

Really? What about the 20th century. That didn't work out did it? The fact is China, ROK, and PRK wouldn't piss on Japan if it was on fire becuase of hmmm...let me see, oh yea all the raping and brutal destruction caused by Imperialist Japan "in the last few centuries". You ever heard of the "rape of Nanking", ever heard of "comfort women"? If you want to go back centuries in history, Japan is the last country on earth that should ever accuse anyone of war crimes or raping! Raping was a sport in Imperialist Japan! Let me guess, that was taken out of your history book! So you want to do without us in the near future? With what, the JSDF? Honestly, you really know nothing about deterence and defense. Why don't you protest Tokyo, they are the ones keeping us here, and paying a lot of money to do it!!!

I like Japan a lot, I just hate idiots!

[grid123456]

Since burgers and guns take priority over health and education in most walks (or should that be drive-ins and drive-byes) of life in the US, I suppose I shouldn't have been so surprised that most people on this forum were unable to understand my first message. A couple of years ago I had the privilege to listen to a real American hero, Alan Nelson, talk about how the marines trained him to kill but not how to bring life into this world. Any American here who is pro-life because they are against war and against killing is a friend of Okinawa and the world. As I wrote in my last message, good luck to them. As for those who support the US military presence in Okinawa and the crimes it is responsible for here and around the world, please refer back to the end of my last message.

Are you serious with this incoherant nonsense? Alan Nelson is complaining because the Marines didn't teach him how to make babies? The Marines never promised they would teach people how to procreate! Most real Marines I know of certainly never had any problem figuring how how to procreate! What is crazy is you use the words of an idiot who joined the Corps, went to boot camp and deployments and all of that, and didn't know that killing my be a part of the job. Further, this loon missed all of that and somehow got the idea in his head that the Marine Corps was going to teach him how to F#(K! This is your American hero? This sounds like a world class idiot! Even Forrest Gump knew what his d##k was for. I honestly can't understand how you though qouting him would strengthen you position?

This really takes the cake! Cupcake!

[nana24]

ORIGINALLY POSTED BY CRAZY SIXX;
Your young want to be American , Your Old you push aside and then when the next generation comes along, no one teaches them a damn thing ,they become like your possessions not family.


i do feel you here man!! I STRONGLY AGREE TO THAT

[grid123456]

So does that mean that any girl out after dark should blame her 'sorry ass' parents when the same thing happens again? It's 8.20pm, and my friend who is a high school teacher here just called me to say she had finished club activities at her school. Hundreds, if not thousands, of elementary and junior high school students are attending juku, and plenty of high school students have part time jobs they'll be walking home from.

If any of these people are abducted by a thirty-something US marine on the way home, should they blame their 'sorry ass parents,' or someone else?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the good neighbor policy doesn't include having marines wandering the streets brandishing m-16s.

And by the way, what's with this "cupcake" thing?

The sad fact is that this incident, and others like it, do mean that Americans guide Okinawan households who might otherwise have felt the streets were safe.

That's one reason why the 'lock-down' was the minimum gesture the US military could get away with given the anger this has generated.

And while we're at it, since the US military has created gated communities for itself which cover 25% of this island, what's the big deal about making sure they stick to their own occupied territories until they eventually clear off?


There was no abduction here madam! The girl willing got on the motorcycle! Don't change the facts around to fix your lack of substance.

The point about "sorry ass" parents has "some" merit. This girl wasn't walking home from a hard day of work or school. She was hanging out on gate 2 street! I can assure you my two kids will not be there, ever! That is how I prevent this from happening to my kids.

I am not pointing all of the blame at this girl, in fact, I put the blame on the adult in the situation as I always do. However, your claims were very skewed and I corrected the record!

[FDokinawa]

Rachel.. are you Japanese? your English is very good.. but how is your Chinese? or Korean? I heard that Kim Jong Ill likes 14-year old girls too.. mabey you would rather have him around?? Or mabey you like to become part of China? I too like fried rice..

[Muku]

After reading through this, will have to go through it again for some more details TP raised an interesting question to me.

Why not make the housing areas unfenced?

That is a great question, sure keep the barracks and if necessary higher ranking officers quarters in secured areas as with the rest of the base.

Make it free for everyone to come and go, there are plenty of American's in the US military that live off base, so I dont totally understand the argument about security issues. If people wanted to hassle them it would be oh so very easy.

For one I would think that taking down as many fences as necessary and making it even for appearances be more open would also help to reduce the feelings of US vs them.:D

But not all Japanese would do that. Only a few.

How true, just as only a "few" Americans would break and enter a Japanese persons house to grab some sleep too.:rolleyes:

Or how about this, let's set up a second line of fences around the bases and put Japanese guards there to check on the people coming off the base ensuring that they aren't trouble makers or drunks, or whatever. That would work too.:rolleyes:

[Shakey]

so thats why my checks in the Corps were printed with the disney logo on them;)

[Anterrabae]

Your "wat," I presume, represents a need for clarification in Rachel's last post?

incorrect. It represents the line from her post that i quoted, or did you miss that? the smiley, on the other hand, represents that "that was the the most far fetched, ill conceived notion that i have ever read. ever."

[okisteve]

It seems that we've all forgotten that there probably are very few Americans that actually asked to be here and for the ones that did, they wouldn't have if we (America) hadn't been attacked on our own soil while we were off fighting in Europe. The heads of our respective governments made the arrangements for us to occupy this island for strategic reasons and here we are trying to enjoy life away from our own families and culture that we are much more comfortable with. As a result of that the Okinawans see a wide range of personalities coping with being in a different country for long periods of time. Some of us do nothing but sit in our houses/rooms and play on the internet and gripe that we've found ourselves so bored. Others of us make the best of it and go out into the local communities in search of activities that will teach us about the culture we find ourselves in, becoming friends with local people. And then there are the 10% that were destined to be in trouble no matter what they do because that is how people and cultures are made.

Not making light of the current social climate but this most recent lockdown is just another "scolding" we Americans receive when some of the 10%ers have made enough trouble that we need to remind ourselves that this isn't our country and we need to behave ourselves. It's all in the spirit of preventing those that might have allowed themselves to fall into the category of the 10%er to see the light and pull them back into the 90% of us that want to enjoy life without inconveniencing or offending our neighbors.


Just a small history correction - the US was not off fighting in Europe on Dec. 7, 1941. We were sending supplies to Britain via the Lend-Lease program and some American shipping had been sunk, but there were no US armed forces in Europe.

Second point: 10% bad eggs is way too many! (Is that your opinion? I have no idea myself.) There need to be some processes put into effect to reduce this level. I'm certain that it would not just be a PR problem, but also for internal discipline and efficiency if 10% of the USFJ were bad apples.

Make the buddy system work! Make wearing belts mandatory off-base!

[DougP]

After reading through this, will have to go through it again for some more details TP raised an interesting question to me.

Why not make the housing areas unfenced?

That is a great question, sure keep the barracks and if necessary higher ranking officers quarters in secured areas as with the rest of the base.

Make it free for everyone to come and go, there are plenty of American's in the US military that live off base, so I dont totally understand the argument about security issues. If people wanted to hassle them it would be oh so very easy.

For one I would think that taking down as many fences as necessary and making it even for appearances be more open would also help to reduce the feelings of US vs them.:D



How true, just as only a "few" Americans would break and enter a Japanese persons house to grab some sleep too.:rolleyes:

Or how about this, let's set up a second line of fences around the bases and put Japanese guards there to check on the people coming off the base ensuring that they aren't trouble makers or drunks, or whatever. That would work too.:rolleyes:

One reason why they do not keep those areas unfenced Muku is because if they did, they'd have no way of locking them in. Gotta have the cage in place before you can call for a lock up.

[okisteve]

One reason why they do not keep those areas unfenced Muku is because if they did, they'd have no way of locking them in. Gotta have the cage in place before you can call for a lock up.

Electronic leg bands! Works pretty well for Corrections in the US:rolleyes:

[DougP]

Electronic leg bands! Works pretty well for Corrections in the US:rolleyes:

I'm sure they've considered the option. Probably on back order like all the up-armor for the vehicles:D

[P_chan]

Maybe we should forward the message to the girl's family or the local press to test your hypothesis.

Go ahead and do it!

After all.....

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/1453/internet24591vm9.jpg

[P_chan]

And of course, Muku, I wouldn't be stupid enough to give this lynch mob her family's contact details, even if I knew them. At the same time, though, I think we should let people in Okinawa know what this sample of public opinion has to say about the incident. Otherwise they might be fooled into thinking that "day of reflection" or whatever it was called, did what it said on the box.

So I guess I'm a member of this lynch mob because of my quote:rolleyes:? Please, I've been saying since day one that they're both at fault. No one knows the details of this story, so no one knows for sure if she's a whore or not (IMHO I doubt she is). They both ****** up, and now everyone else is paying for it!

[P_chan]

If any of these people are abducted by a thirty-something US marine on the way home, should they blame their 'sorry ass parents,' or someone else?

Wait a second, rewind that thought for a second. IIRC she got on his bike out of her own free will. You have a strange definition for the word "abducted".

[DougP]

I would say the 38 year old is a bit more at fault... Based on the fact that a 38 year old should be more responsible than a 14 year old. Especially considering the fact he is old enough to be her father.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Really? What about the 20th century. That didn't work out did it? The fact is China, ROK, and PRK wouldn't piss on Japan if it was on fire becuase of hmmm...
Wasn't the argument that USFJ are here to protect Japan/Okinawa from these "enemies", and not, as you suggest, because those same countries won't come to Japan's aid in times of trouble?

let me see, oh yea all the raping and brutal destruction caused by Imperialist Japan "in the last few centuries". You ever heard of the "rape of Nanking", ever heard of "comfort women"? If you want to go back centuries in history, Japan is the last country on earth that should ever accuse anyone of war crimes or raping! Raping was a sport in Imperialist Japan! Let me guess, that was taken out of your history book!
Last few centuries? Just when do you think Japan began her modern imperial drive? As it only came out of three-and-a-half centuries of isolation in 1867, annexed the Ryukyu Kingdom in 1879, Taiwan in 1895, where are these "centuries of imperialism you speak of? Please share with us the title of the history book you studied from.

So you want to do without us in the near future? With what, the JSDF? Honestly, you really know nothing about deterence and defense. Why don't you protest Tokyo, they are the ones keeping us here, and paying a lot of money to do it!!!
You are of course aware that except for the actual soldiers' salaries, the government of Japan pays for nearly all base-related expenses. I'll give you a few links to get started on educating yourself on that issue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omoiyari_Yosan
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/ed20000323a1.html

[proudtobnotpc]

I would say the 38 year old is a bit more at fault... Based on the fact that a 38 year old should be more responsible than a 14 year old. Especially considering the fact he is old enough to be her father.
I think he should have his pee pee modified regardless, does not matter what he did or did not do, it's about the trouble and bullshit he caused:cursing:

[grid123456]

Wasn't the argument that USFJ are here to protect Japan/Okinawa from these "enemies", and not, as you suggest, because those same countries won't come to Japan's aid in times of trouble?


Last few centuries? Just when do you think Japan began her modern imperial drive? As it only came out of three-and-a-half centuries of isolation in 1867, annexed the Ryukyu Kingdom in 1879, Taiwan in 1895, where are these "centuries of imperialism you speak of? Please share with us the title of the history book you studied from.


You are of course aware that except for the actual soldiers' salaries, the government of Japan pays for nearly all base-related expenses. I'll give you a few links to get started on educating yourself on that issue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omoiyari_Yosan
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/ed20000323a1.html

You are proving my point for me! So I will set em up for you and maybe you'll get it.

1. The arguement was that without the US, Japan doesn't have a friend in Asia that is capable enough to help repel an assault. I do bi-latteral exercises with the JSDF all of the time. I know what their capabilities are and what they are not!In fact I am the action officer for all related Japan exercises for my unit. I happen to be in ROK right now and everytime I come I ask the ROK military members (over soju) why can't they let the brutal things that Japan did to them years ago be bygones so that the two countries can support each other against PRK and PRC. Trust me the ROK is not about to forgive and make up anytime soon. Which is a shame because the ROK also has no friends in Asia besides the US. Should we debate the intentions of Kim Jong Il? I think not.

2. The last few centuries comment was me qouting a previous post (notice the qoutes). however, lets set it up. First Sino Japanese War began 1894 (19th century)!!!!!!!!! the end of WWII and more important to the point was the signing of the new constitution in 1947 (20th century)!!!!!!!!!! So yea, these things happended during the "last couple of centuries".

3. I am aware of who pays for the local guards and all of the base stuff. Thanks for bringing it up again! Of course what I said was about the Japanese Self Defense Force, not contract cops on base gates. The JSDF, made up of the JMSDF, JGSDF, and JASDF, is weak! It simply isn't strong enough to go it alone. No matter how much throwing money at it you do, developing a modern military can't be done over night. You could conscript a million men and purchase the largest fleet of ships, aircraft and ground equipment in a day (assuming the money was there). But it takes decades if not a century of integration, training, doctrine development etc. to make a military that can decisively win! That was the point! Interestingly enough, my friends in the JSDF openly admit their military is weak and not capable enough. Further, wheh I ask how they are supported by the public they say they are not. They tell me they feel frowned upon and most of thier population doesn't agree with what they are doing. Which is what makes them weak. They could expand the military but the populace doesn't support it. Don't tell me about the constitution we forced either. They could re-write that at anytime and you know it. How sad that they serve a country (a volunteer even) that doesn't care for them or about them. I like the JSDF because all military have a common bond of sacrifice for others: a history of putting ones own wants and needs after that of thier country. What I admire most about my fellow soldiers in the JSDF is they do it with the disdain of their public. I can assure you, public support in the US is overwhelmingly important.

Now lets discuss something that is an undisputed fact no matter how twisted you think.

Prior to 1776, the world was mostly of the imperialistic mindset! When the US declared independence, it too was imperialistic. However, not all states joined the union by annex. One thing is for certain. The US is among the youngest countries in the world however, it is the oldset democracy in the world.

Further, there has never in the history of the world, been a country that has given more aid, defended more allies, or other wise assisted the world at large than the United States. An unbeleivable amount of direct assistance and monetary aid flows from the US every year. Most of it goes unreported because what is popular is attacking the US in the press. This happens everywhere not just Japan. Like I said, no one's record can match that of the US and I doubt none ever will.

Again, if Japan wants to go it alone (which i know it doesn't just loud mouthpieces like you) then you should take it to Tokyo. Demand they make the US leave! Demand they cut funding for the American bases in Japan!

Go it alone! You know as well as I do Kim Jung IL would use Japan for his own missle range and China would step up pressure to promote its agenda knowing that Japan could not counter.

You really seem to fail to understand that often times countries sit down and negotiate and talk because it is backed up with the threat of force or at least they know that a military capability exist! Its called "the balance of power". Countries don't negotiate and get along because they are nice guys, they do it becuase there is something in it for them!

That includes America! We do a ton of great things but there is always and agenda and as well there should be. As a taxpayer i would be angry if my money was being spent with no agenda. Whether that agenda is to maintain friendships and alliances or to pressure countires to comply with others interests, there is always something.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

1. The arguement was that without the US, Japan doesn't have a friend in Asia that is capable enough to help repel an assault. I do bi-latteral exercises with the JSDF all of the time. I know what their capabilities are and what they are not!In fact I am the action officer for all related Japan exercises for my unit. I happen to be in ROK right now and everytime I come I ask the ROK military members (over soju) why can't they let the brutal things that Japan did to them years ago be bygones so that the two countries can support each other against PRK and PRC. Trust me the ROK is not about to forgive and make up anytime soon. Which is a shame because the ROK also has no friends in Asia besides the US. Should we debate the intentions of Kim Jong Il? I think not.
The argument has devolved somewhat from "Okinawa derserves it, because Japan attacked the US in 1941...", through "China and the North Koreans're chomping at the bit to attack Japan..." and on down to "Japan has no allies in the region, so we're doing them a favor...". And, why not debate the intentions of Lil' Kim? Do you think he wants to attack Japan and cut off all the pachinko profits flowing into his coffers?

2. The last few centuries comment was me qouting a previous post (notice the qoutes). however, lets set it up. First Sino Japanese War began 1894 (19th century)!!!!!!!!! the end of WWII and more important to the point was the signing of the new constitution in 1947 (20th century)!!!!!!!!!! So yea, these things happended during the "last couple of centuries".
Let's look at your numbers. From 1894 to present is a grand total of 114 years. "A little over a century from Japan's imperialistic forays to present" would be more accurate, and even better would be "In the 51 years (1894-1945) The Empire of Japan was actively imperialistic". Your fuzzy math is nearly as bad as your president's.

3. I am aware of who pays for the local guards and all of the base stuff. Thanks for bringing it up again! Of course what I said was about the Japanese Self Defense Force, not contract cops on base gates. The JSDF, made up of the JMSDF, JGSDF, and JASDF, is weak! It simply isn't strong enough to go it alone. No matter how much throwing money at it you do, developing a modern military can't be done over night. You could conscript a million men and purchase the largest fleet of ships, aircraft and ground equipment in a day (assuming the money was there). But it takes decades if not a century of integration, training, doctrine development etc. to make a military that can decisively win! That was the point! Interestingly enough, my friends in the JSDF openly admit their military is weak and not capable enough. Further, wheh I ask how they are supported by the public they say they are not. They tell me they feel frowned upon and most of thier population doesn't agree with what they are doing. Which is what makes them weak. They could expand the military but the populace doesn't support it. Don't tell me about the constitution we forced either. They could re-write that at anytime and you know it. How sad that they serve a country (a volunteer even) that doesn't care for them or about them. I like the JSDF because all military have a common bond of sacrifice for others: a history of putting ones own wants and needs after that of thier country. What I admire most about my fellow soldiers in the JSDF is they do it with the disdain of their public. I can assure you, public support in the US is overwhelmingly important.
Quite a tangent from my assertion that Japan pays the great majority of the money needed to keep the bases here and operating.

You do parrot the party line quite well. I'm sure you are a loyal soldier. You have a dreadful time staying on topic and relevant, but then again, look at your leaders.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Really? What about the 20th century. That didn't work out did it? The fact is China, ROK, and PRK wouldn't piss on Japan if it was on fire becuase of hmmm...let me see, oh yea all the raping and brutal destruction caused by Imperialist Japan "in the last few centuries".

The march of time lessens hostile feelings from the past. Where as right after WW2 most Chinese or S. Korean persons would have never dreamed about doing business with Japanese, nowadays there are many joint business ventures and deals between their country's businessmen. China and S. Korea have interest in maintaining stability between them and Japan so that their economies would not suffer.

I am certain that the finance ministers of China and S. Korea would work in some way together to lessen or avoid an economic disaster if they could foresee one coming to Japan.

Perhaps that would qualify as some sort of the piss you refer to.

You ever heard of the "rape of Nanking", ever heard of "comfort women"? If you want to go back centuries in history, Japan is the last country on earth that should ever accuse anyone of war crimes or raping! Raping was a sport in Imperialist Japan! Let me guess, that was taken out of your history book!

Many countries have horrid pasts of raping and murdering the defeated or engaging in genocide. The U.S. government and its armies did so to the Native American Indians little more than a 130 years ago, but yet Indian nations in the U.S. and non Indians have for the most part tried to move past that and heal wounds. The U.S., too, according to your logic, should also be the last country on earth that should ever accuse anyone of war crimes or raping!

Perhaps we should leave countries by name out of the accusing and leave it to scholars and historians, or just individuals, to accuse and pass judgement.

So you want to do without us in the near future? With what, the JSDF? Honestly, you really know nothing about deterence and defense. Why don't you protest Tokyo, they are the ones keeping us here, and paying a lot of money to do it!!!

The Philippines have been holding off the Chinese menace quite well after we left, haven't they? And look how poor they are! Japan only needs to invest enough in their deterrence capability to make it quite painful to anyone who would be foolish enough to attack them. They are rich enough to do so and have the technological ability to do so, too.

[Asshat]

Further, there has never in the history of the world, been a country that has given more aid, defended more allies, or other wise assisted the world at large than the United States. An unbeleivable amount of direct assistance and monetary aid flows from the US every year. Most of it goes unreported because what is popular is attacking the US in the press. This happens everywhere not just Japan. Like I said, no one's record can match that of the US and I doubt none ever will.

Deduct the funding going to "Nation Building" in Iraq and see what the total aide the US provides is. Now compute it as percentage of GDP or any other fair-handed comparison and see where the US lays.

Also, few modern countries have deposed elected governments like the US has. Sure, if compared to the colonialism of the European past, the US looks like the gallant savior. But it's crimes of the 20th century are hardly anything to brag about.

We're tearing the hell out of the "axis of evil" in Iraq, yet providing a mere token presense in Africa as the genocide continues.

[okisteve]

I can understand that when officers sit drinking together they talk about wars and violence, and I also know that there is a lot of mutual distrust between Korea and Japan. But countries don't go to war anymore because they are pissed off at what their grandads did to each other. The stakes are just too high. (OK, Iran and Iraq did. In the Balkans it might look like that, but it was more about religion and economics).

If any nation ever had some grounds for revenge, it might be Israel against Germany, but they reached a point of appreciating that, as TP said, you have to move on, and now there isn't the remotest chance of that happening.

Yes, Japan was one of the worst aggressors in history, but it is no longer seen as a military threat. And compared to how the US viewed Japan in the 1980's, it is not even a serious economic threat. China, on the other hand is a very serious economic threat, but both the US and Japan understand that partnership with China is preferable to mutual economic and physical destruction. I suspect that Korean leaders also know that too. While the North has a powerful military, they could not sustain a war and have no real allies. South Korea knows perfectly well the risks posed by its neighbors, and also that they have a lot more than the North to lose by a war.

Also - we are SO in hock to China that they are now propping up the US economy and dollar so that THEY don't lose their shirt and shorts. And of course the US has even more reason to always seek stability in the relationship. Taiwan? It's economically a part of China, just about the same as Hong Kong was and is.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Seems like a lot of people's pride for their country and fear about the future guides their thoughts and posts rather than some well-needed detached observation of history and economics.

Pride is the well of nationalism. I think a lot of religious scriptures from several religions condemn pride for a reason. Maybe some wisdom in that.

[Asshat]

Seems like a lot of people's pride for their country and fear about the future guides their thoughts and posts rather than some well-needed detached observation of history and economics.

Pride is the well of nationalism. I think a lot of religious scriptures from several religions condemn pride for a reason. Maybe some wisdom in that.

Everything is like that. We are, after all only human. Look at politics in America. All votes are signified right down party lines. If an American declares himself a republican, he must also:

Be for the death penalty
Be against abortion
Be for religious declarations in schools
Be against non-Christian declarations in schools

If Thomas Jefferson were alive today making his speeches, many red-blooded Americans would be asking him "why do you hate America?"

"My country love it or leave it," has now become "my country, obey it or leave it."

[DougP]

Somehow I can personally relate the last part you just posted there Umi. Its really sad to say the least. Your entire post is right on the mark, it is an accurate and disturbing representation of how the gears turn in the majority of American minds.

[afansi]

Seems like a lot of people's pride for their country and fear about the future guides their thoughts and posts rather than some well-needed detached observation of history and economics.

Pride is the well of nationalism. I think a lot of religious scriptures from several religions condemn pride for a reason. Maybe some wisdom in that.

Thanks for this relatively sane contribution, but let's be clear we are not talking about 'nationalism' in relation to Okinawa. The American presence here amounts to military colonialism pure and simple.

Whatever fantasies are peddled by the Stars and Stripes and brain-addled casualties of the American war machine, Okinawa is not 'home' to the US military.

It is occupied territory.

[Asshat]

Thanks for this relatively sane contribution, but let's be clear we are not talking about 'nationalism' in relation to Okinawa. The American presence here amounts to military colonialism pure and simple.

Whatever fantasies are peddled by the Stars and Stripes and brain-addled casualties of the American war machine, Okinawa is not 'home' to the US military.

It is occupied territory.

Your definition of colonialism is faulty. Your post seems intelligent enough for you to grasp my statement. Occupied is also a stretch.

Probably best to get away from the cliches and use a more modern term...perhaps Hitmen for the GOJ?

[Isaak Brodsky]

... Pride is the well of nationalism. I think a lot of religious scriptures from several religions condemn pride for a reason. Maybe some wisdom in that.

Amen to that!

[Isaak Brodsky]

... amounts to military colonialism pure and simple.

It is occupied territory.

Dear Afansi, could you kindly elaborate on your definition of "colonialism" so that your fellow citizens in this community can more readily apprehend the connection you are making here??

Cheers, ib

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

An fascinating debate on military intervention from 1969...still relevant today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt-GUAxmxdk

[kombu_kid]

Since burgers and guns take priority over health and education in most walks (or should that be drive-ins and drive-byes) of life in the US, I suppose I shouldn't have been so surprised that most people on this forum were unable to understand my first message

No, honey.....most people weren't able to understand your first message because it was an incoherant rant.

A couple of years ago I had the privilege to listen to a real American hero, Alan Nelson, talk about how the marines trained him to kill but not how to bring life into this world.

Okay, I know I'm a little late to the party, but could you elaborate on what this means?.......as in, what were they supposed to teach him....that they didn't?

As for the 14-year old girl who was supposedly raped by the 38-year old soldier......who here knows all the facts of this case?.......nobody? Okay, if she was forced to have sex against her will (nothing to do with her age) then that's a tragedy period.......however, if she was hanging out on Gate 2 getting more than a little friendly with an older man.....AND willing to "do the deed" with him, then it's a bit hard for me to feel very sorry for her. I mean, 14 years old is technically still a child, but she is old enough to know she playing with fire by taking a ride from this guy.

Why is it we can prosecute a male at this age "as an adult" for doing drive-by shootings, but if a 14-year old girl wants to "put it out there"........people immediately want to paint her as some pigtailed, innocent girl who thinks babies still come from the stork. As I said, I don't think any of us know the facts here, and clearly the 38-year old was more at fault for pursuing her.

Everyone must agree that there is a certain element in Japan who want the military gone and are just waiting for the next incident to pounce on.....and blow up to further their cause.

BTW, you don't need ships offshore from other countries to realize that Okinawa would be a nice acquisition for China or whoever. With that being said, I believe it's high time for Japan to get their own thing going, and start getting our troops out of a lot of countries. The U.S., IMO, has been running on a maxed-out credit card and I.O.U.'s for too long........kinda wondering if there's gonna be a giant CRASH soon.

[Isaak Brodsky]

An fascinating debate on military intervention from 1969...still relevant today.

Yeah, I saw this in the documentary version of Manufacturing Consent. Chomsky wipes the floor with Buckley. Funny stuff.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

BTW, you don't need ships offshore from other countries to realize that Okinawa would be a nice acquisition for China or whoever. With that being said, I believe it's high time for Japan to get their own thing going, and start getting our troops out of a lot of countries. The U.S., IMO, has been running on a maxed-out credit card and I.O.U.'s for too long........kinda wondering if there's gonna be a giant CRASH soon.
The sovernity of the Senkaku Islands has been disputed between Japan and China for some time. Given their proximity to the Okinawan main island, could you outline the role of the US military in this dispute K_K?

[Asshat]

The sovernity of the Senkaku Islands has been disputed between Japan and China for some time. Given their proximity to the Okinawan main island, could you outline the role of the US military in this dispute K_K?

So...how much oil is shipped from the Senkaku Islands to Tokyo? :)

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Precisely the fact that they are viewed as being potentially rich in resources, they are contested by the PRC, ROC, and Japan. IIUC, since the 1972 reversion, the US has played little to no role in the dispute, other than issuing statements of neutrality and other ambiguous sound bytes from time to time.

[Asshat]

Precisely the fact that they are viewed as being potentially rich in resources, they are contested by the PRC, ROC, and Japan. IIUC, since the 1972 reversion, the US has played little to no role in the dispute, other than issuing statements of neutrality and other ambiguous sound bytes from time to time.

And we're doing it to Taiwan now...but we can not "afford" to do that to Japan. I am not educated enough in the socio-economic impacts and various legal accords to make a qualified guess on the outcome of zero US here.

I can however, surmise the US does not need to be here from a US standpoint.

[kombu_kid]

could you outline the role of the US military in this dispute K_K?

Hell, what do I know? Although I've heard many times that the U.S. has declared that we'll defend Taiwan's independence, c'mon.......I'd say Okinawa is a nice little U.S. outpost in a strategic location. If things got ugly, having the U.S. NOT flex it's muscle would probably go over like a lead balloon. The Japanese would probably think "then what the f**k ya doin' here?" Legal wrangling over those islands is one thing.......why would the U.S. get involved until the s**t hit the fan?

BTW, I read about this today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7276277.stm

I like to keep my eyes on China......they've got a lot of money to go shopping with........:cool:

[Rachel]

Maybe some people think I don't know English or don't like it, but 'abduction' for me seems the best word. If he had just taken her to her home, then I think that criticism of me using the word would be justified. At the same time, remember she is a human being, and her parents are human being too. She has a real life and school friends she has to face. Some of them, like some people here will also be blaming her. She is anonymous for you, but not for them, and this thing will stay with her forever. In thinking about people who are not American, why do so many Americans never feel empathy? Sometimes they can't even bothered to count the dead bodies they leave behind, like in Iraq.

[Tony Stacks]

Maybe some people think I don't know English or don't like it, but 'abduction' for me seems the best word. If he had just taken her to her home, then I think that criticism of me using the word would be justified. At the same time, remember she is a human being, and her parents are human being too. She has a real life and school friends she has to face. Some of them, like some people here will also be blaming her. She is anonymous for you, but not for them, and this thing will stay with her forever. In thinking about people who are not American, why do so many Americans never feel empathy? Sometimes they can't even bothered to count the dead bodies they leave behind, like in Iraq.


Why? Because she's a lying little whore that tried to put in innocent man behind bars. I know for a fact it was her fault. She worked at a whorehouse where Hadnott knew her from and therefore obviously thought she was 18.:cursing:
I have my sources.

[Crazysix]

Abduction....not a good choice as she decided she would go with him, and seeing that you were not there it is not right to claim she had no idea that he planned and that she did or did not agree to it.
She is a person and what separates her from animals is the ability to to think and use reason, which she obviously did not. I feel bad for her for what happened, but not for why it happened. All she had to do is say no and not get on the bike. Now if had not been hadnot it would have been some Japanese. As for counting dead bodies why? Sometimes you have to complete the mission. I say you should keep your outward hate of Americans to yourself, and concentrate on the individual(hadnott) and teach your young girls not to be whores. As far the girl, I hope she and her friends learned a valuable lesson from this because the next time she could become a corpse.
I also want to ask you, you are so busy pointing out how bad we are, what about your own people? Police,Teachers, Principles, business heads ect. that committed the same crimes, i dont hear you telling them to leave. Dont point at my dirt until you clean your own house.

[Crazysix]

Tony, dont waste your breath, rachel is damaged goods, obviously some gi hit it and quit it (LOL)now she hates us all. Fvck it Semper Fi

[Crazysix]

Thanks for this relatively sane contribution, but let's be clear we are not talking about 'nationalism' in relation to Okinawa. The American presence here amounts to military colonialism pure and simple.

Whatever fantasies are peddled by the Stars and Stripes and brain-addled casualties of the American war machine, Okinawa is not 'home' to the US military.

It is occupied territory.
Occupied, Good....get out

[afansi]

Why? Because she's a lying little whore that tried to put in innocent man behind bars. I know for a fact it was her fault. She worked at a whorehouse where Hadnott knew her from and therefore obviously thought she was 18.:cursing:
I have my sources.

Well that does kind of wipe out our friend Rachel's argument.

Or does it?

I'm not much of a one for innuendo and off record anonymous sources.

Why don't you come clean about everything you know? Especially since your testimony could clear an innocent man (however you work out that one).

Given the tone of your remarks, I can't imagine you're holding back because you want to spare the girl's feelings.

[afansi]

I don't know if I've ever had an opinion that goes WITH the US military. :o

In that case though, it helps to make sense.

[Muku]

Why? Because she's a lying little whore that tried to put in innocent man behind bars. I know for a fact it was her fault. She worked at a whorehouse where Hadnott knew her from and therefore obviously thought she was 18.:cursing:
I have my sources.

Tony this is just so wrong.:o

[Muku]

Hey guys take a deep breathe here....I agree, granted the word abduction is probably a bit harsh for this situation but is there any reason to get so hyper about Rachels comments after that? Take a look at the rest of that quote that you are lambasting her for.

At the same time, remember she is a human being, and her parents are human being too. She has a real life and school friends she has to face. Some of them, like some people here will also be blaming her. She is anonymous for you, but not for them, and this thing will stay with her forever. In thinking about people who are not American, why do so many Americans never feel empathy? Sometimes they can't even bothered to count the dead bodies they leave behind, like in Iraq.

She is right you know, oh of course it isnt just Americans that dont feel empathy, however it this case it fits.

She isnt pointing fingers here really, at least not to me, just making a comment about what this girl faces for the rest of her life. I read this as her, Rachel, asking people to cut this girl some slack, let her be, she's the one who now has to live with this.

How many mistakes did you make at 14 that will haunt you FOREVER?

[Muku]

Dont point at my dirt until you clean your own house.
C I am damn sure that you are old enough to actually know better than this.

Is this really a fair statement? The one I am quoting here.

Also I am fairly sure you have heard the phrase hindsight is 20/20.

[kombu_kid]

I'll buy that, Muku. Whether or not she wanted to get with this guy, she's gotta be under a tremendous amount of stress and pressure.......it's gotta be a life-altering experience, especially for a 14-year old. I just hope she doesn't do anything stupid.......like try to "off" herself........that is the very Japanesy thing to do.

[kombu_kid]

Quote:
Dont point at my dirt until you clean your own house.

I think what he means is the Japanese obsession with cuteness and young, sexy, innocent looking chickys, some of which are "shakin' that money-maker" to make some extra bucks.......it sort of seems to be silently accepted in a way, sort of a "don't ask, don't tell" deal when the Japanese men are the ones tappin' dat ass......but not when the gaijin does.

Japanese society sort of feeds on this obsession with young hot chickys........and a lot of people from other countries perceive Japanese men as pegging the perv meter........so, all this hubbub & outrage probably seems hippocritical to those who "know the real deal" in Japan.

But as I said, does anybody really know what happened?

[Tempestuous]

How mistakes did you make at 14 that will haunt you FOREVER?

I didn't get to be this opinionated and hard-nosed about particular subjects by being a good little girl :ohmy:

There is a LOT that I did at the age of 14 that affected my life permanently.

You choose to either let it mold you in a positive or negative way after its all said and done.
You can't go back and UN-do it.
It's in how you move forward, after that.

Other people may have their opinions & want to try to keep you in that box of mistakes forever- but that is their issue to deal with.
You do, what you have to do & they will either get over it & accept you or blame that incident as the stepping stone to your demise.

[Muku]

I didn't get to be this opinionated and hard-nosed about particular subjects by being a good little girl :ohmy:

There is a LOT that I did at the age of 14 that affected my life permanently.

You choose to either let it mold you in a positive or negative way after its all said and done.
You can't go back and UN-do it.
It's in how you move forward, after that.

Other people may have their opinions & want to try to keep you in that box of mistakes forever- but that is their issue to deal with.
You do, what you have to do & they will either get over it & accept you or blame that incident as the stepping stone to your demise.

Temp one thing I would like to point out here though is that you and I were educated a lot differently than not just this girl but Japanese in general.

We are taught from a young age to be responsible for our actions, to think for ourselves, to learn to stand on our own feet, and any other number of cliches that fit this situation, that in my opinion also affects greatly our thoughts, ideas and opinions about this girl.

I have lived here a long time, and one thing that sticks out in my mind quite a bit is that kids here stay kids a lot longer than they do in the states. Physically they may be "grown ups" but emtionally and psycologically they are much younger in comparison to an "average" 14 American kid. They dont know about taking responsibility for their actions or suffering for the consequences of their actions either. THere are exceptions to every rule though.

[Crazysix]

C I am damn sure that you are old enough to actually know better than this.

Is this really a fair statement? The one I am quoting here.

Also I am fairly sure you have heard the phrase hindsight is 20/20.
I think its very fair, especially considering the rest of the statement I wrote, If she is damn literate enough to come and argue the points she has argued and they way she has then she will hopefully understand what and why I wrote this.

[Crazysix]

I'll buy that, Muku. Whether or not she wanted to get with this guy, she's gotta be under a tremendous amount of stress and pressure.......it's gotta be a life-altering experience, especially for a 14-year old. I just hope she doesn't do anything stupid.......like try to "off" herself........that is the very Japanesy thing to do.
Well if she does off herself oh well. It just tells me how strong she really was and it if she is living with a lye she deserves it and if she was telling the truth and is too scared to come forth then I have nothing but 100% sympathy for her.

[Crazysix]

Well that does kind of wipe out our friend Rachel's argument.

Or does it?

I'm not much of a one for innuendo and off record anonymous sources.

Why don't you come clean about everything you know? Especially since your testimony could clear an innocent man (however you work out that one).

Given the tone of your remarks, I can't imagine you're holding back because you want to spare the girl's feelings.
Ok then why doesnt she come forth in public and present her face and story to the world???? Where is he evidence that she was physically raped??? No evidence equals the man is innocent of rape not being stupid nor does it make her innocent by any means.

[Crazysix]

Its seems everytime a crime happens here involving a Gaijin, you dregs come out of the wood work, jesus give it a rest. We are not gonna Leave Okinawa or Japan in your lifetime so except it, deal with it , and move on.

[Muku]

Its seems everytime a crime happens here involving a Gaijin, you dregs come out of the wood work, jesus give it a rest. We are not gonna Leave Okinawa or Japan in your lifetime so except it, deal with it , and move on.
Are you calling me a dreg too? :eek: :D

Although I would make a bet that "some" of the military will be leaving here eventually.

[Crazysix]

Are you calling me a dreg too? :eek: :D

Although I would make a bet that "some" of the military will be leaving here eventually.
look dreg:D, some are leaving to make the cry babies feel better , but realistically not all

[Rachel]

My first thing to say is thanks to Muku.

Second, my dictionary says abduction means, "the carrying away, esp. of a person by fraud or force." Also "fraud" means "a deceptive trick done with the intention of gaining an advantage." If he offered to take her home, is "abduction" right, or my dictionary is wrong?

My last point is I think it's bad any people want to accuse me about my personal life. Do they know anything about me?

[Crazysix]

LOL cowboy up fvcker, you come here with your anti american rantings and expect us to be nice????

[Muku]

look dreg:D, some are leaving to make the cry babies feel better , but realistically not all

Oh I agree, not all will leave.

Plus I feel that the sooner that Okinawan's get accustomed to the fact that for the foreseeable future the Japanese government is not going to let the American military disappear from here, and work towards a better relationship with the bases, is to their advantage.

Oh and that's the first time that I can recall anyone ever called me a dreg<3, how romatic C.....my wife is probably going to get jealous now:-| :ohmy:

[Crazysix]

MUku your welcome pussyboot willow bottom<3<3:barf:

[Isaak Brodsky]

LOL cowboy up fvcker, you come here with your anti american rantings and expect us to be nice????

I thought that this was a public forum and not some board for patriotically tranquilized citizens to submit their xenophobic fears of other peoples and nations.

I'm fairly sure that the members of the Japanupdate community here are not exclusively American.

I know that I'm not exclusively American despite my acculturation. Just been lurking lately but am now wondering why such much emotional venom has been aimed at those with diverging views.

So Rachel has an entirely different viewpoint. What does it profit anyone here to unload so much contempt on her, especially on the personal level? Seems that many folks weighing in are losing sight of the fact that the "whore" is essentially a kid, the mind of a youth with the body of a young lady.

If you really want to continue enjoying your American version of freedom and democracy, you ought to enjoy engaging in an occasional Anti-American rant. Our political process - if any of you haven't noticed lately - is NOT all peaches and cream and so a periodic bitch session is certainly in order.

If you (everyone here) want to take Rachel to the cleaners, you and I should first look more rationally at what the US government has been doing since 2003.

[Crazysix]

OK I an I agree , it is public forum so I publicly expressed my displeasure with this country, the people and her views. Now I will continue to rake her over the coals because according to her , this country would be better off with all foreigners that includes you. Well Maybe my country isnt all peaches and cream but its home and, this place no matter how much you try will never let itself become your home.
Ya the WHORE is a kid and no matter what that will never change, and Hadnott is a Child molesting Idiot.

[mikersoft]

I thought that this was a public forum and not some board for patriotically tranquilized citizens to submit their xenophobic fears of other peoples and nations.

I'm fairly sure that the members of the Japanupdate community here are not exclusively American.

I know that I'm not exclusively American despite my acculturation. Just been lurking lately but am now wondering why such much emotional venom has been aimed at those with diverging views.

So Rachel has an entirely different viewpoint. What does it profit anyone here to unload so much contempt on her, especially on the personal level? Seems that many folks weighing in are losing sight of the fact that the "whore" is essentially a kid, the mind of a youth with the body of a young lady.

If you really want to continue enjoying your American version of freedom and democracy, you ought to enjoy engaging in an occasional Anti-American rant. Our political process - if any of you haven't noticed lately - is NOT all peaches and cream and so a periodic bitch session is certainly in order.

If you (everyone here) want to take Rachel to the cleaners, you and I should first look more rationally at what the US government has been doing since 2003.

I agree that all the bashing doesn't help either cause.

However, calm, rational discussion goes both ways. Rachel set the tone with his/her very first post in this thread.

You can't walk up to someone, punch them in the nose, then say "hey, I think we should talk about our problems". If that's your style, you should expect to get a punch (or two) thrown back at you.

-Mike

[Muku]

You can't walk up to someone, punch them in the nose, then say "hey, I think we should talk about our problems". If that's your style, you should expect to get a punch (or two) thrown back at you.


I can understand a punch or two as well, but I personally think that once the punching is done that people can still discuss the issues without a chip on their shoulder as well.

I hope we are aldults here enough to realize that and not just some payground bully that no matter the situation only sees things their way.:D

[Isaak Brodsky]

... Well Maybe my country isnt all peaches and cream but its home and, this place no matter how much you try will never let itself become your home. ...

I wasn't mixing the concept of "country" with the people "you, me, brothers and sisters" who inhabit the nation.

[Isaak Brodsky]

Are you calling me a dreg too? :eek: :D ...

The dregs will inherit the earth.

[Crazysix]

I wasn't mixing the concept of "country" with the people "you, me, brothers and sisters" who inhabit the nation.
so the same concept applies to Japan and Japanese also

[TheNoNamedOne]

LOL cowboy up fvcker, you come here with your anti american rantings and expect us to be nice????

Do not drag this discussion into name-calling. -- TP

[Crazysix]

What ever Tp, anyway back to how the japanese are bunch of babies.........

[Muku]

so the same concept applies to Japan and Japanese also

C I can understand where you are coming from, but do you honestly feel that Japanese people look at it the same way?

[Crazysix]

HEll no and thats is the problem

[okisteve]

HEll no and thats is the problem

Wrong - it's your problem.

[Muku]

HEll no and thats is the problemWrong - it's your problem.

C I have to say that Steve has a point here. Your wife is Japanese right?
My wife is Japanese too. And if I am not mistaken here so is Steve's wife as well.

Probably going out on a limb here but I would be willing to bet that at least those three people see things differently than what you are generalizing about in your replies.

There are exceptions to every rule, we both know that. Also I have to believe that you know that it is the media circus and politicians that create the overwhelming majority of "problems" blowing crap out of proportion here.

Also I have to say that I think that the people living around the bases dont have the same sense of security than other parts of Okinawa. The odds of any incidents happening where I am living are slim to none. However purely due to the close proximity of their homes to the bases, the noise, the traffic, the incidents, the nature of the military, all increase stress levels for those people. And they have been living with it over 60 years.

To be honest with you, and not wanting to say that I am taking their side here, although it is going to sound that way :o they have been more than patient.

Heck this is their home, how many thousands, or hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of US servicemen and their families have just "passed through" their neighborhoods, walked down their streets, become friends with, argued with, fought with, killed or be killed by, raped everything. Yet they still live there and "you" as in the US military go back to the states.

I would be willing to bet that things here would be totally different if Okinawa became a 20 or 30 year duty station. Never going to happen I know, but I think you know what I am trying to say here.

I realize that the military is not going to disappear either, and things need to change. One thing though is constant....the Japanese and Okinawan's, the "thing" that constantly changes is the military.

Different faces, same problems, a never ending cycle. Also a harsh reality that there will always be those that oppose the military, and there is nothing you nor I nor anyone else can do to change that situation.

You notice though I said military, these people hate the military, but to many that I know they dont hate "you" just what "you" represent. That is something as well that will never change either. Can't change that either.

[Crazysix]

Wrong - it's your problem.
How is my problem Im not japanese, and as I have said before this rock could slide in to ocean for all I care. Their bitches, gripes and concerns, dont matter to me. They should take care of their own problems and not try to capture a headline when an idiot steps out of line... so steve it isnt my prblem

[okisteve]

so steve it isnt my prblemNo, well what you said before is because Japanese and Okinawans see the situation a certain way, it is THE problem, meaning the whole frikkin world's problem, but what Muku and I am saying is that is just the way things are in this world and it's not a problem for them. If it really bothers and affects your quality of life, it's only your problem. That simple.

And the only way to fix that is by changing your outlook or skedaddlin.

Say what - let's forget it. I guess you meant something else, and I have an open bottle of wine downstairs.

Cheers

[Bones]

There are people who love this place, such as Muku, and myself. We've always loved this place, and we mean to make it our home. A lot of other people love Okinawa, for the same reasons. The people, the Island, the ambiance.

There are people who do not want to be here, and with all of the press coverage about certain idiots these days, coupled with the restrictions, that's understandable.

But if you take a deep breath, explore some of the other things that are available to you on this island (other than the bars), and get away from the bases, you just might find yourself falling in love as well.

We were driving around a bit this afternoon, hitting up some places that we haven't been to in a while. And more than a few locals approached us, wondering why it took so long for us to come back.

This place is home to me, as well as some other ex-pats. If you don't like it leave. If you think that you might like it, explore.

If you feel that people don't like you, take a few minutes to contemplate your behavior off-base.

NBTP

[Crazysix]

C I have to say that Steve has a point here. Your wife is Japanese right?
My wife is Japanese too. And if I am not mistaken here so is Steve's wife as well.

Probably going out on a limb here but I would be willing to bet that at least those three people see things differently than what you are generalizing about in your replies.

There are exceptions to every rule, we both know that. Also I have to believe that you know that it is the media circus and politicians that create the overwhelming majority of "problems" blowing crap out of proportion here.

Also I have to say that I think that the people living around the bases dont have the same sense of security than other parts of Okinawa. The odds of any incidents happening where I am living are slim to none. However purely due to the close proximity of their homes to the bases, the noise, the traffic, the incidents, the nature of the military, all increase stress levels for those people. And they have been living with it over 60 years.

To be honest with you, and not wanting to say that I am taking their side here, although it is going to sound that way :o they have been more than patient.

Heck this is their home, how many thousands, or hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of US servicemen and their families have just "passed through" their neighborhoods, walked down their streets, become friends with, argued with, fought with, killed or be killed by, raped everything. Yet they still live there and "you" as in the US military go back to the states.

I would be willing to bet that things here would be totally different if Okinawa became a 20 or 30 year duty station. Never going to happen I know, but I think you know what I am trying to say here.

I realize that the military is not going to disappear either, and things need to change. One thing though is constant....the Japanese and Okinawan's, the "thing" that constantly changes is the military.

Different faces, same problems, a never ending cycle. Also a harsh reality that there will always be those that oppose the military, and there is nothing you nor I nor anyone else can do to change that situation.

You notice though I said military, these people hate the military, but to many that I know they dont hate "you" just what "you" represent. That is something as well that will never change either. Can't change that either.

I agree with you to a point, AND FYI my wife does tend to feel the same ay as I do on this matter. The military is here and they should learn to live with it. Crimes should be equally punished, and publicized, but in reality as long as People like the Mayor of Oki city and Chatan continue to be outward brash they can expect the same behavior from military and civvy personnel. Its funny how you and steve and few others run to defend rachel and her twisted views, dont forget you are gaijin and no matter how much you want, try or convince yourself you are the same as these people, you never will be. As for what rachal said, well Im not changing my comments to her or anyone else for that matter. The young lady came here to bash Americans and inturn got bashed, then certain members have the captain "save a ho" complex, ran to the rescue in the end nothing changes..NOTHING. Now as far as safety goes I feel alot safer with these bases here, than if there were none...sorry your arguments hold no water with me. ONCE AGAIN ITS THEIR PROBLEM

[Crazysix]

. If you don't like it leave. If you think that you might like it, explore.
NBTP
I love the Island and a few locals too, but over all, My view this place has changed drastically with this incident, and the attitudes of the community over all. So I am leaving it, hopefully god willing soon. I know this time I will not miss it.

[Muku]

I agree with you to a point, AND FYI my wife does tend to feel the same ay as I do on this matter. The military is here and they should learn to live with it.
Why? Why do they have to be forced to learn to live with something that they dont want? Hell even in the US when people dont like something they arent "forced" to live with it, they work to change it. Why can not the Okinawan people have the same "right" to change what they think is a bad situation for them?

Crimes should be equally punished, and publicized,
Now C what do you expect? Do you expect a country that doesnt not have English as it's first language to publish information in English just to satisfy the perceived "need" or "want" of publicity?

Do not the Japanese also have their own right to self determination? Why must they follow some other countries laws? There laws are theirs, and as long as any of us live here we have to deal with that reality and fact.

Just because we wish it to be different wont change it. If you want to change it then you have to become a part of the system. Meaning become Japanese.

Its funny how you and steve and few others run to defend rachel and her twisted views, dont forget you are gaijin and no matter how much you want, try or convince yourself you are the same as these people, you never will be.

C this is going a bit far in my opinion, I have NEVER said I am one of, nor alluded to anything anywhere here that I think that I am the same as the Japanese people. I am very comfortable with who I am and what my situation is here.

However I will say that I think that I understand things a little more clearly about the people and the system as it is, in comparison to many of the people posting here on this forum.

If anyone else had written this I would have commented that their overall view of this in my opinion is borderline racist. C I truly dont think you are. However to someone that has not gotten to know you here, this comment taken as it is could be read that way as well. I repeat here I dont think you are racist, far from it.

As for what rachal said, well Im not changing my comments to her or anyone else for that matter. The young lady came here to bash Americans and inturn got bashed, then certain members have the captain "save a ho" complex, ran to the rescue in the end nothing changes..NOTHING.

There are others here that have done a lot worse. Rachel, in her orginal comments sounded to me as well as bashing. However her responses afterwards had nothing whatsoever to do with any bashing of anyone here. She made some good points in her posts, but to me anyway, because you were pissed at her for her first posts, you didnt cut her any slack and stopped reading what she was writing, and just reminded yourself of her first posts here.

If you notice I didnt reply to her first posts that I can recall anyway, without going back to check into details. However I did quote some of the things that she wrote that made sense.

I am not asking you to take anything back, you both disagree, that's fine.

Now as far as safety goes I feel alot safer with these bases here, than if there were none...sorry your arguments hold no water with me
Not the same thing, different type of safety that I am refering to, and I think you know that as well.

I truly find it ironic that you, being married to a Japanese woman yourself, and living in Japan, would have such animosity towards them.

[Muku]

I love the Island and a few locals too, but over all, My view this place has changed drastically with this incident, and the attitudes of the community over all. So I am leaving it, hopefully god willing soon. I know this time I will not miss it.

Why? This "one" incident?

To me listening to you here there are other underlying issues besides this one incident C.

This incident wasn't that much different than ones that happened before. Plus the Okinawan response was the same as well.

The only difference this time was the US Military's response. THEY are the ones that responded differently this time, not the Japanese. If you are going to point fingers this time I would suggest pointing them at the US Military and not the Japanese.

The Japanese responded as expected and as usual. Hell you have no idea how many times I have heard "responses" like this to incidents.

Crap do you remember the trucks driving into the school grounds? That response was predictable as well. I can go on and on....but it wouldnt matter would it?

Again C if this one incident has changed your views so much that it makes you want to leave I am sorry.

Edited to add here.....
Can I ask a question here C? How long have you been living on the island? Is this the first incident that you have experienced while living here? There are many of us that have been here a while that have gone through seemingly countless numbers of them. Cripes there are so many that I can hardly remember them all.

In the bigger scheme of things the majority of them were minor. Yet the politicians and media went about their merry way and blew them up to make them sound like the entire island of Okinawa was in flames because of this "one" or "that" one incident.

To be honest, for the most part I ignore them, and so do most of the people I know as well. The only reason that I am constantly reminded of them is because people here harp on them to no end.

When in fact "off" base for the most part they have died off and it is ancient news. THIS forum and the posters here keep shit alive long after it has died OFF BASE.

Sure an occasional comment or follow up in the news occurs, but nothing major.

If you watch Japanese news on TV, you will see what I am talking about. :D

[Hollarey]

Good point, Rachel.

Perhaps the military family housing areas should be ungated so that Japanese nationals can roam through them just as military persons are permitted to roam through Japanese residential areas. I think that would be rather fair.

Perhaps the only gated areas with security should be those areas with sensitive equipment vital to war fighting.

Why do that here when they aren't even open in the states?

[Crazysix]

Why? This "one" incident?

To me listening to you here there are other underlying issues besides this one incident C.

This incident wasn't that much different than ones that happened before. Plus the Okinawan response was the same as well.

The only difference this time was the US Military's response. THEY are the ones that responded differently this time, not the Japanese. If you are going to point fingers this time I would suggest pointing them at the US Military and not the Japanese.

The Japanese responded as expected and as usual. Hell you have no idea how many times I have heard "responses" like this to incidents.

Crap do you remember the trucks driving into the school grounds? That response was predictable as well. I can go on and on....but it wouldnt matter would it?

Again C if this one incident has changed your views so much that it makes you want to leave I am sorry.
Jesus MUKU Slow down:D, Your right Im not a racist or try not to be, but the attitudes here are so influencing for alack of better words. I apologize to you for my rant, However if the Okinawans dont like the current situation dont bitch tous , bitch to their govt., but then the govt turns a dear ear to them also so it seems give them enough to shut up until next time. No there other things Ive be seen and heard so far, that has made me tire of this place and this is just one more rock on the pile. What I should have stated from jump street, you have good and bad in all societies unfortunately all we ever hear is about and from the bad. It doesnt matter its all water under the bridge anyway. So friends again???

Sieg HEIL

[Crazysix]

No, well what you said before is because Japanese and Okinawans see the situation a certain way, it is THE problem, meaning the whole frikkin world's problem, but what Muku and I am saying is that is just the way things are in this world and it's not a problem for them. If it really bothers and affects your quality of life, it's only your problem. That simple.

And the only way to fix that is by changing your outlook or skedaddlin.

Say what - let's forget it. I guess you meant something else, and I have an open bottle of wine downstairs.

Cheers You are right, I was ranting and I apologize see response to muku.

[Crazysix]

I truly find it ironic that you, being married to a Japanese woman yourself, and living in Japan, would have such animosity towards them.
Not all, only the ones as matter of fact anybody ,that uses, some else's pain for to voice their platform. Why not use this situation to educate the young about the dangers out there from all People,not just American. Instead they( ANTI- BASERS), choose to use it as a tool to move the bases and voice their open dislike and trust of all foreigners. Those are the ONES I refer to and if that makes me a racist WELL I AM A RACIST:army:

[Muku]

Jesus MUKU Slow down:D, Your right Im not a racist or try not to be, but the attitudes here are so influencing for alack of better words. I apologize to you for my rant, However if the Okinawans dont like the current situation dont bitch tous , bitch to their govt., but then the govt turns a dear ear to them also so it seems give them enough to shut up until next time. No there other things Ive be seen and heard so far, that has made me tire of this place and this is just one more rock on the pile. What I should have stated from jump street, you have good and bad in all societies unfortunately all we ever hear is about and from the bad. It doesnt matter its all water under the bridge anyway. So friends again???

Sieg HEIL

For me I have pretty much turned a deaf ear to the majority of it. I do what I do day by day, change or be changed to the people and situations I am put into and find myself in.

And to be honest here, until I joined JU I really never gave a crap about it, being the people that bitched about the bases or the incidents that occured in general. And for the most part neither do the people I interact with daily either.

But please remember this about me, one of the proudest things I have to look back at in my life, besides finishing college, is being able to say I am a former United States Marine.

Oh that and having three great kids and a wonderful wife.:o

So friends again???

Never stopped:thumbup:

[Crazysix]

I Think This Thread Should Be Closed Its Dead!!!!

[kombu_kid]

However if the Okinawans dont like the current situation dont bitch tous , bitch to their govt.,


I think this is important to remember.....Okinawa will always be "owned" by some entity......too small to defend itself. So it takes it's orders from it's "daddy", Tokyo. And "daddy" says it will support a staggering amount of foreign troops. It's a love/hate relationship......just ask Guam & the PI.

[DougP]

I Think This Thread Should Be Closed Its Dead!!!!

Consider it done. Closing this sucker now...... until further notice :D

[DougP]

Thread is now open again for business.

[socalheart]

Exactly what kind of business are you people running here anyways? :scared: I call shenanigans!!! :p No, really, what were you people going on about?

I have a question for you dk and the other moderators: Do you ever get that not so fresh feeling?

[DougP]

Exactly what kind of business are you people running here anyways? :scared: I call shenanigans!!! :p No, really, what were you people going on about?

I have a question for you dk and the other moderators:

You have no idea:(

[afansi]

Ramsey Clark is singing from the same colonial hymnsheet as Hillary, Dubya and McCain. A right is something you have to fight for, otherwise it will be taken away from you.

That's the first lesson we should learn from seven years of George W. Bush.

I have mixed feelings about this thread, given the toxic nonsense it has generated from some quarters, but that doesn't strike me to be a good reason to close it down.

If people don't want to get involved, just let them carry on talking about the weather.

[Crazysix]

dont you love how one persons comment can bring out the prejudice in all of us, from the ramblings of afansi and rachal, it did in me. Anyway I have a question for DK.......Can you drink an ugly woman fine?

[DougP]

dont you love how one persons comment can bring out the prejudice in all of us, from the ramblings of afansi and rachal, it did in me. Anyway I have a question for DK.......Can you drink an ugly woman fine?

Well if I can do it...:D

[Crazysix]

god knows I ve dont it and hell it even helps with conversational Japanese

[Rachel]

dont you love how one persons comment can bring out the prejudice in all of us, from the ramblings of afansi and rachal, it did in me. Anyway I have a question for DK.......Can you drink an ugly woman fine?

Sorry, but what does "Can you drink an ugly woman fine?" mean.

[Sex Wax]

Sorry, but what does "Can you drink an ugly woman fine?" mean.

Test: Drink till this foul female looks "fine".

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g129/hklbryhd/ugly-girl.jpg

Good Luck!!

[shawncot]

Test: Drink till this foul female looks "fine".

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g129/hklbryhd/ugly-girl.jpg

Good Luck!!




Man thier ain't enough booze in the world to drink that poor thing pretty!!!

[Crazysix]

Test: Drink till this foul female looks "fine".

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g129/hklbryhd/ugly-girl.jpg

Good Luck!!
HOLY CHRIST FVCK

[Sif: wife of Thor]

:scared::scared::scared::scared::scared:

[SPMF#1]

:barf::barf:

[Crazysix]

Test: Drink till this foul female looks "fine".

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g129/hklbryhd/ugly-girl.jpg

Good Luck!! aint no way in fVckin hell.... I rather get head from a tigershark

[Isaak Brodsky]

i guess this recent post of the photo of a totally "hot" babe represents that awkward silence when no one in the conversation knows quite what to say because the last piece of pizza of the topic sits in the pizza box waiting to be consumed.

Perhaps since this thread had been aimed at dk and since dk has not really thrown in his two cents for a while, we could conclude that this topic is spent.

It might be nice to reflect on all of our input and share with one another what we've learned about ourselves AND about our host neighbors.

[Crazysix]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Supreme_pizza.jpg

[Isaak Brodsky]

that's a righteous pie.

[Isaak Brodsky]

... but would disparging comments about "ugly" women appeal to all women, such as your sister, mom, grandma, wife, girlfriend or neighbor?

Just wondering, here, if the question about "drinking an ugly woman fine" just a back-handed slap in the face of Rachel for putting in her two cents?

[okisteve]

Just wondering, here, if the question about "drinking an ugly woman fine" just a back-handed slap in the face of Rachel for putting in her two cents?

That would be pretty darned subtle for this environment.....

I like the idea that you don't have to read posts you don't want to read, but you might miss some hidden gem. That principle is analogous to the "paper bag" principle with respect to that face, where some real treasure might be hiding at the other end.

Pizza, yes. But does anyone seriously feel that black olives add anything to a good pizza?

[Muku]

Btw just to add a couple of cents here, if I am not mistaken that picture of the scary looking "woman" is actually a guy.:eek:

[okisteve]

Btw just to add a couple of cents here, if I am not mistaken that picture of the scary looking "woman" is actually a guy.:eek:

What, the scars and acne? Hmm, now that you mention it....

[DougP]

Maybe that's where the pizza comes in:)

[Rachel]

Some of the messages on this thread are sexist trash, including horrible lies about the girl, and posting that stupid photo. If you don't agree, tell me what does that photo - or the (woman=sex object) and the comment it's supposed to justify – have to do with anything?

As soon as a woman has an idea Mr Macho Men is too stupid to understand, why does she get called ugly witch or bitch or something like that?

And besides, when I'm born again, I prefer to be the girl in the photo than Adolph Hitler.

Meantime, should DK or prosecutor decide when this thread is closed, or should the general public?

[Muku]

Some of the messages on this thread are sexist trash, including horrible lies about the girl, and posting that stupid photo. If you don't agree, tell me what does that photo - or the (woman=sex object) and the comment it's supposed to justify – have to do with anything?

As soon as a woman has an idea Mr Macho Men is too stupid to understand, why does she get called ugly witch or bitch or something like that?

And besides, when I'm born again, I prefer to be the girl in the photo than Adolph Hitler.

Meantime, should DK or prosecutor decide when this thread is closed, or should the general public?
Rachel...things have pretty much calmed down on this thread about the issues that you raised. Thanks for participating your posts were insightful to me and I look forward to reading more of them.

I think that you raise an interesting question here, we have quite a number of women that post regularly on this board and what do you say to starting a thread on this issue in a thread all its own. I think it would be easier to follow along for everyone.

That's a guy btw in that photo.......:o

[TheNoNamedOne]

Meantime, should DK or prosecutor decide when this thread is closed, or should the general public?

The general public or a mob piqued by provocative and controversial postings does not decide when a thread is closed. The members of the moderating team do so.

[Bones]

Hey, Muku.

I don't want to be a kill-joy or anything, but some of the pictures floating around the forums could be construed as being a little racy. Especially, when the wife is looking over your shoulder while diving the threads. She got a bit peeved at me the other night when the girly pictures started showing up.

While I don't think that the trash talking has gotten out of hand, I think some moderation is required for the images. Especially now that someone has spun off a thread for the women (guy pictures).

Perhaps it's something that you mods could discuss in the background.

NBTP

[Sif: wife of Thor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1ph2i9fyAU

[Muku]

A simple hey we decide would have worked just as well your lordship:rolleyes:

[Muku]

Hey, Muku.

I don't want to be a kill-joy or anything, but some of the pictures floating around the forums could be construed as being a little racy. Especially, when the wife is looking over your shoulder while diving the threads. She got a bit peeved at me the other night when the girly pictures started showing up.

While I don't think that the trash talking has gotten out of hand, I think some moderation is required for the images. Especially now that someone has spun off a thread for the women (guy pictures).

Perhaps it's something that you mods could discuss in the background.

NBTP
You have a great point bones....:thumbup:

[TheNoNamedOne]

A simple hey we decide would have worked just as well your lordship:rolleyes:

Yeah, and you can stop being flippant to a mod when they moderate with a message.

Do not reply to this post in this thread.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

I think that you raise an interesting question here, we have quite a number of women that post regularly on this board...

You may have to be careful about showing off your knowledge of underage thong mags, and corresponding collection of links. Say, you were in the service, weren't you...

[kombu_kid]

It's alllllllll in the interest of investigative reporting, sir.........

[DoctorP]

Hey, Muku.

I don't want to be a kill-joy or anything, but some of the pictures floating around the forums could be construed as being a little racy. Especially, when the wife is looking over your shoulder while diving the threads. She got a bit peeved at me the other night when the girly pictures started showing up.

While I don't think that the trash talking has gotten out of hand, I think some moderation is required for the images. Especially now that someone has spun off a thread for the women (guy pictures).

Perhaps it's something that you mods could discuss in the background.

NBTP


Bones,

We shall discuss this in the back amongst us, but please note that the threads you question are labeled with NSFW...which some people read as Not Safe for Work...you however should probably read that as Not Safe for Wife and choose not to open those threads. :D

[P_chan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1ph2i9fyAU

Hell yeah!

Bleach FTW!:thumbup: