Period of Reflection continues for SOFA-status personnel

[JUNewsBot]

JUNewsBot Has Just Posted the Following:

Lieutenant Gen. Richard C.

Click here to view the article. (http://www.japanupdate.com/?id=8438)

Feel free to hold a discussion regarding this article here.

[dk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiloZd1H4ow

More to come!

[slickmetal]

yep received the official media release today. As rumored -- has now become fact that it extends over the next pay day period.

Yay! Exception to policy letter to goto Yellow Box!

[Anterrabae]

not only am i british but im also not sofa

im so glad this shit doesnt affect me

blahblahblahblah

[Doomrider]

not only am i british but im also not sofa

im so glad this shit doesnt affect me

blahblahblahblah

Someone get this man a cookie quick! He is in fact special.

[TheNoNamedOne]

yep received the official media release today. As rumored -- has now become fact that it extends over the next pay day period.


Cool. More Starbucks sofas available... and lockdown patrol challenge missions.

[DougP]

key the circus music:D

[RChan]

not only am i british but im also not sofa

im so glad this shit doesnt affect me

blahblahblahblah

Yes, but you're still British...

[LooseCannon]

I wonder if they're going to lock down the local teenagers now that they're being raped by their own now?

[Anterrabae]

Yes, but you're still British...

HERESY!!!!

im british AND non sofa, get it straight or ill remind you in every post i make.......oh wait, i already do.

nevertheless, i digress.....

HERESY!!!

[Oki0619]

The thing I love is how arrogant and ignorant the commanders are, one Col told a Sgt that her visiting family are now under the sofa, then went on to say that all Japanese dependent wives would be kicked off the Island. But most bothering is the lack of direct answers I get when I ask the Japanese wife question, just a bunch of BS misdirection and no one can send me an actual answer, I think this is because they know they are wrong and don't want to be quoted.

[depwets]

The thing I love is how arrogant and ignorant the commanders are, one Col told a Sgt that her visiting family are now under the sofa, then went on to say that all Japanese dependent wives would be kicked off the Island. But most bothering is the lack of direct answers I get when I ask the Japanese wife question, just a bunch of BS misdirection and no one can send me an actual answer, I think this is because they know they are wrong and don't want to be quoted.

I was just wondering for myself, where and how do you send a letter asking about the Japaneses citizen with SOFA (Your J-Wife) to?
Thanks

[Big_Papa]

The Military Justice section of Legal.

[DougP]

SJA = Some Judicial Asshole :D



j/k:)

[Tony Stacks]

SJA = Some Judicial Asshole :D



j/k:)


:thumbup1:******* classic:thumbup1:

[OkiSF]

i posted this in another blog but this is for those who didn't already see this. this was sent down through the chain.

PERIOD OF REFLECTION AND MOVEMENT
LIMITATION ORDER
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
Q: Is my Japanese national spouse subject to the movement limitation order?
A: No. We cannot restrict the off-base movement of Japanese citizens within their own country.
Q: My family is in town from the States and we had plans to tour Shuri Castle, Peace Prayer
Park and the aquarium. Does this mean they have to stay on base or in our off-base home too?
A: This movement limitation order only applies to SOFA-status personnel. Your family
members from the States are tourists on a Japanese tourist visa – they do not have SOFA status.
Your family members may certainly tour the sites, but you will need permission from the first O-
6 (or civilian director equivalent) in your’s (or your sponsor’s) chain-of-command.
Q: Can I pick-up my family from the airport when they arrive tomorrow?
A: Yes. Traveling to the airport to pick-up or drop-off passengers or to conduct authorized
travel (including leave travel) is an exception under the movement limitation order.
Q: Can I go to Okuma this weekend?
A: Yes. Okuma Recreation Facility is a military installation.
Q: Can I still run or man a water station during the Okinawa Marathon this weekend?
A: Yes. The Okinawa Marathon is a community outreach event and an approved exception to
the movement limitation order.
Q: I do not have a vehicle (I just arrived on Okinawa) and I have made a partial down-payment
on a car from an off-base dealership. Can I go to the dealership to pay the rest of my downpayment
and pick-up the car?
A: This is a pre-existing obligation, and a possible exception under the movement limitation
order. You, or your sponsor if you are a dependant, should make your request for an exception
under the movement limitation order to the first O-6 (or civilian director equivalent) in the chainof-
command.
Q: My child attends on off-base child care provider – do I need permission to take my child to
day care off-base and pick up the child every day?
A: Off-base child care is a place of education, one of the exceptions under the movement
limitation order.
Q: I live in an off-base apartment with my dog. Can I take my dog outside to a nearby park so
that it can “take care of business?”
A: Yes, and then you should promptly return to your quarters.
Q: Can I take my child off-base for pre-paid piano or Karate lessons?
A: Yes, these are places of education.
Q: Can I take my car off-base for repairs?
A: If your car breaks down off base you may bring it to a Japanese auto repair shop. If your car
breaks down on base, use available on-base repair services. In order to pick up a car left off base
for repairs, or if on-base services are insufficient to address your vehicle problem, make a
request for exception under the movement limitation order to the first O-6 (or civilian director
equivalent) in the chain-of-command.
Q: Can I go to my off-base job?
A: Yes; your place of employment is an exception under the movement limitation order. Note:
US Forces Japan regulations prohibit employment in any liquor stores, bars, nightclubs, or other
establishments in which the sale or service of alcoholic beverages to the Japanese public is the
exclusive or primary activity.
Q: Can I go to another Airman’s house off-base for dinner?
A: No. You should plan to meet your friend at an on-base establishment or postpone your
dinner plans until after the period of reflection concludes.
Q: Can I make my regular deposit at the bill-paying service off-base?
A: This is a pre-existing obligation, and possible exception under the movement limitation order.
You, or your sponsor if you are a dependant, should make your request for an exception under
the movement limitation order to the first O-6 (or civilian director equivalent) in the chain-ofcommand.
Q: I live off-base and use an off-base laundry service. Can I pick up my clothes and drop off
clothes (the laundry is not in my apartment building)?
A: You, or your sponsor if you are a dependant, should make your request for an exception
under the movement limitation order to the first O-6 (or civilian director equivalent) in the chainof-
command to pick up your clothes. You should then use the laundry services available on-base
until the period of reflection concludes and the movement limitation order is lifted.
Q: I’ve already paid for a “boot camp” style personal trainer program at a gym off base. It’s a
course with predetermined start and completion dates. Can I still attend sessions during the
period of reflection?
A: This is a pre-existing obligation, and a possible exception under the movement limitation
order. You, or your sponsor if you are a dependant, should make your request for an exception
under the movement limitation order to the first O-6 (or civilian director equivalent) in the chainof-
command.
Q: I use an off-base gym where I pay for membership. I prefer to work out there, because it’s
located close to my house and I like the facility. Can I visit that gym during the period of
reflection? Also, can I go running off base?
A: No. If you wish to work out at a gym or run outdoors during the period of reflection, do so
on base.

[Big_Papa]

That came from the AF side of the house, didn't it?

[P_chan]

That came from the AF side of the house, didn't it?

Yes it did. I got that email last week, maybe on tuesday or wednesday.

[OkiSF]

yes through AF side but i'm sure it was co-ordinated through all the services just like this "period of reflection"

[Big_Papa]

Yeah, we never got that. The USMC is trying to take a hardline on this. Keep that stuff secretive. One branch can't do it if the others can't. Right is right, and I'm sure that Dick approved it, he just didn't want all of those released to us.

[joshmurphy]

Being an American meant that you were free to pursue happiness within the confines of the world's governments & laws? The US military was supposedly charged to advance the ideals of democracy around the world, including ALL of the rights asserted to individuals by God?

Apparently, my wife & I accepted civilian contractor employment FOR the children of the military in Okinawa along with a sizeable pay CUT only to be thanked by having our personal lives mandated & controlled unreasonably & without just cause. We only THOUGHT our reward would be getting to see the world & learn about other cultures' beauty. And I thought I'd picked up on unwarranted treatment of people based on their ethnicity & nationality from the Japanese. Apparently, they were only taking a play from the book of the inept & unreasonably command of the US Marines in Okinawa.

"Muscles Are Required; Intelligence Not Essential"

[OkiMike]

Wow, it's almost as if I had ghostwriters doing my bidding in my absence!

Rock on! Glad to see this ship finally board some passengers.

[Tanimaga]

There are still a few with the anti-lapdog mindset.

[Muku]

not only am i british but im also not sofa

im so glad this shit doesnt affect me

blahblahblahblah

Not only am I not British but I'm also not sofa either

Im so glad this doesnt affect me either.

blah blah blah blah:rolleyes:

[DougP]

There are still a few with the anti-lapdog mindset.

Perhaps some people out there should read a little Howard Zimm:thumbup1:

[koralle]

Yes, I am not american, but I am under sofa status... Currently I am thinking about getting a second passport (yes, you can get them, because some countries will not let you in, when you have been to another...)... Just joking! But here is my thoughts in a nutshell: Who is doing all this "bad" stuff??? Mostly service members !!! So why are they infringing on the civil rights of dependants and contractors???? I guess, they do not apply when you are married to service member, that has to swear an oath to uphold the constitution (remember that piece of paper was all about freedom and individual rights).

[Daniela]

Oh great Josh,
the usual blah blah blah. Don't you realize how beautiful Okinawa still is? Even being locked down there are still awesome places to go.
This is only limited and complaining about it doesn't help. Make the best of it and discover some the great places on post.
Yes, I have seen them as I walk at least 5 miles a day....on post these days.
Have you been to Okuma? It's beautiful and it's on post.
I really hope you are not out there educating my child in how to have a bad attitude.
We could be sitting in dump city USA.
Daniela:scared:

[DougP]

Oh great Josh,
the usual blah blah blah. Don't you realize how beautiful Okinawa still is? Even being locked down there are still awesome places to go.
This is only limited and complaining about it doesn't help. Make the best of it and discover some the great places on post.
Yes, I have seen them as I walk at least 5 miles a day....on post these days.
Have you been to Okuma? It's beautiful and it's on post.
I really hope you are not out there educating my child in how to have a bad attitude.
We could be sitting in dump city USA.
Daniela:scared:

That's one of the first things the Nazis probably said at the workers camps.

Nazi Guard: "Hey at least you get to go outside and get some exercise. My you're looking great today! Did you lose some weight?"

Jewish prisoner: :crying::(

Yeah there's always a brighter side to everything isn't there. Kinda like when you drive by a horrific car accident. Look on the bright side, it wasn't me.:thumbup1:

[KumaNoPooh]

but free to go where you want when you want and not told where and how to spend your money

[koralle]

I do not think a bad attiude does make this all better either, but to me it is the principal of the restrictions... I had to explain to my teenage son, that he now has to take the bus to school, because he is not allowed to walk less than a mile from my house by the Okinawa City Hall to gate 2. Does that teach him the right message???? I do want my child to question rules made by the government for understanding, but I do not want him to break them!

[Daniela]

So as a military dependent; what is my alternative?
Go home and be without my husband for the next 2 years? Can I please make the best of it and expect the teachers of my child to not have an opinion as we at home talk about these issues enough.
Between you me and the fence post I have an opinion, but he stated clearly that he came over here to educate my child and that is all I expect him to do.
Daniela:scared:

[Tanimaga]

I've only lived here 17 years...please fill us in on the wonders of the bases..

onegaishimasu..

[Daniela]

I feel you question is sarcastic...so I am not inclined to answer.
Daniela

[TheLastDon]

Chilis and chilis2:rolleyes:

[Daniela]

oh and something else;
you must be insane to compare this to the Nazi camps. Obviously you don't know your subject area very well. Shall we go toe to toe? Since you are dealing with a real German here I am not afraid of a good argument.
Daniela

[OkiMike]

I do not think a bad attiude does make this all better either, but to me it is the principal of the restrictions... I had to explain to my teenage son, that he now has to take the bus to school, because he is not allowed to walk less than a mile from my house by the Okinawa City Hall to gate 2. Does that teach him the right message???? I do want my child to question rules made by the government for understanding, but I do not want him to break them!

Technically, he is allowed to walk to school. Whatever your method of movement (walking, biking, bus, car), you are allowed to proceed directly towards any of the approved locations by that method.

In our case, we only have one car and, should my wife wish to use it, I am more than free to walk, bike or hail a cab to the closest base.

As for teaching him to "break" the rules, keep in mind that Civil Disobedience is a virtue. I recommend you borrow it at your local base library and read it with your son. (The author would be Henry David Thoreau, if you didn't know).

[Ammoyankee]

I feel you question is sarcastic...so I am not inclined to answer.
Daniela

Now that's a "Grade A" copout!:thumbdown:

[Tanimaga]

Relax Adolf.

[Daniela]

Dude, it's saving energy!!!! Pick your battles.:old:

[OkiMike]

edited for content

[koralle]

I have a german mother and a french father !!! I have spend a lot of years in both countries!!!! I do believe in the freedom of speech!! To me a teacher is supposed to make his students think and teach! I want my son to think!!!! There is nothing worse than a person a eats (accepts) everything put in front of them!

[Daniela]

Oh yeah great,
I want to see you guys out with the weapons that you are allowed to carry and fight the government on this. Please, I don't like this as much as the next guy. At least in America we are allowed to carry weapons.
All I hear you guys do is bitch and that doesn't make life any better during this period. Everybody here is afraid to lose their job and keeps mighty quiet if they are SOFA.
I want to see some real action. Oh and yes I could go back to Germany. Thankfully I kept my passport, but is that really a good option?

[Daniela]

koralle,
I am my children's first teacher and I don't keep quiet. Why do you thing I have the guts to speak up here?

[Ammoyankee]

Oh yeah great,
I want to see some real action.

Hehe, you need some action huh? Got a school girl uniform???:eek:

[Tanimaga]

Hehe, you need some action huh? Got a school girl uniform???:eek:

LOL!!!! My nipples just cut thru my t-shirt on that one!!

[Daniela]

sorry baby, my husband actually rocks my world:w00t:

[Ammoyankee]

sorry baby, my husband actually rocks my world:w00t:

Well ok, but I will keep you incheck from time to time...:cool:

[koralle]

Daniella;
I spend years in a german university and the vibe I got there was to question everything. That included the teachers/professors too. So why would I complain about a teacher, that has an opinion??? I think, a teacher that explains both sides of an argument is the best. Also who says that this teacher is taking this into a class room full of first graders??? Maybe he teaches high school ???? So would it be appropiate for him to voice his opinion in the first grade class room - probably not. In High school - why not??? So we do not know, if he is really voicing his oppinion anywhere else??? So why scream! You and I as germans should know pretty well to what husch-husch can lead to!

[proudtobnotpc]

sorry baby, my husband actually rocks my world:w00t:
thats why German women rock:first:

[mr.reasonable]

If the reflection does last overthepayday weekend, u can bet thatour general WILL be "leaned" on to lift the restrictions. The local economy was complaing about therestriciton the same day. Maybe it'll helpthe yenrate

[Tanimaga]

What is with this "I'm German" kick?

[DougP]

Oh yeah great,
I want to see you guys out with the weapons that you are allowed to carry and fight the government on this. Please, I don't like this as much as the next guy. At least in America we are allowed to carry weapons.
All I hear you guys do is bitch and that doesn't make life any better during this period. Everybody here is afraid to lose their job and keeps mighty quiet if they are SOFA.
I want to see some real action. Oh and yes I could go back to Germany. Thankfully I kept my passport, but is that really a good option?

What in the world are you going on about, what does having any weapons have to do with this? A lot of us aren't just speaking out on the forums, we are writing congressmen, newspapers/various news media. our companies, legal services(civilian and military) etc. Some of us are even getting our spouses involved. Posting up our gripes here is what some of us like to do in between all of that other stuff. But seriously there's no need for violence.:thumbup:

[KumaNoPooh]

yes writting to these people take time it is just for next time this clown gets the idea of locking up civilians. the pen is mighty or e-mail or fax

[Daniela]

Koralle,
I can't form an opinion as to your German heritage until I further investigate the issue.
As for myself I am born and raised.
French father sounds awful suspicious to me as we have been at war with the French for a long time now and really don't like each other.
Therefore, please submit the require papers. Oh and just to be sure I need your grandfather's high school diploma.
Thanks
Daniela

Honestly now,
I except you to educate my child. If you are starting a discussion on this subject you are walking a fine line. What if you convince a dependent he/she has the right to walk into the next Lawson and then gets caught and yadayadaya...you know the rest.

[gunny8511]

More drama...yawn.

Much ado about nothing. Some people keep whining about being "confined to" their quarters. Nobody is confined to their quarters. We can all drive around the island freely, and frequent all of the bases. We just can't patronize off-base businesses. Big difference.

Maybe some of you should stop using the term "lockdown," since we're not really locked down anywhere. :rolleyes:

[koralle]

What is with this "I'm German" kick?
Here what that was all about: posted by daniella on page 4
oh and something else;
you must be insane to compare this to the Nazi camps. Obviously you don't know your subject area very well. Shall we go toe to toe? Since you are dealing with a real German here I am not afraid of a good argument.

[koralle]

Koralle,
I can't form an opinion as to your German heritage until I further investigate the issue.
As for myself I am born and raised.
French father sounds awful suspicious to me as we have been at war with the French for a long time now and really don't like each other.
Therefore, please submit the require papers. Oh and just to be sure I need your grandfather's high school diploma.
Thanks
Daniela

Honestly now,
I except you to educate my child. If you are starting a discussion on this subject you are walking a fine line. What if you convince a dependent he/she has the right to walk into the next Lawson and then gets caught and yadayadaya...you know the rest.
I do not have to prove anything, but just in case I have a birth certificate....

[koralle]

Koralle,
I can't form an opinion as to your German heritage until I further investigate the issue.
As for myself I am born and raised.
French father sounds awful suspicious to me as we have been at war with the French for a long time now and really don't like each other.
Therefore, please submit the require papers. Oh and just to be sure I need your grandfather's high school diploma.
Thanks
Daniela

Honestly now,
I except you to educate my child. If you are starting a discussion on this subject you are walking a fine line. What if you convince a dependent he/she has the right to walk into the next Lawson and then gets caught and yadayadaya...you know the rest.
Who says this guy is taking to the class room??? He is entitled to his opinion here!

[KumaNoPooh]

Lockdown is the correct term when i can not visit my in-laws or take my mother in-law to work and move freely as I want.. you know the united states did this to the Japanese it was called an internment camp they were not lockdowned either they could move freely about the camps

[koralle]

More drama...yawn.

Much ado about nothing. Some people keep whining about being "confined to" their quarters. Nobody is confined to their quarters. We can all drive around the island freely, and frequent all of the bases. We just can't patronize off-base businesses. Big difference.

Maybe some of you should stop using the term "lockdown," since we're not really locked down anywhere. :rolleyes:
Hey gunny 8511 I have been told by my husbands comander that the only places I can visit are: military installations, the place I pay my bills at and houses of worship. I have also been told that my friend can not visit me, but I can visit her on Foster. To me that is someone telling me where I can go - no if and buts about that!!!!

[koralle]

Lockdown is the correct term when i can not visit my in-laws or take my mother in-law to work and move freely as I want.. you know the united states did this to the Japanese it was called an internment camp they were not lockdowned either they could move freely about the camps
i am with you!!!!

[tanigua]

Gunny's right - this is not a lockdown...it's a lockout. Locked out of all of the places off-base you would normally go. And the establishments of off-base don't use the term lockdown either - they prefer boycott, embargo, sanction...

Get beyond the semantics and it's all a collection of unintended consequences...

[TheLastDon]

Yeah it's not a lockdown

When you get caught driving around Hedo tell whoever stops you that you are driving from Okuma to the Northern Training area.

[gunny8511]

Lockdown is the correct term when i can not visit my in-laws or take my mother in-law to work and move freely as I want.. you know the united states did this to the Japanese it was called an internment camp they were not lockdowned either they could move freely about the camps

Yep; they were in our country, just as we're in theirs. Get over it. Internment camps? You're comparing this to internment camps? Quit huffing paint, get a grip, breathe in a paper bag if you need to, but get back to reality.

[Son Kokujin]

Awright. Here's my 200 yen on this...
I am a veteran w/8 years under my belt. I got out in 2006, and returned to Okinawa, because 1-to actually be with my wife, 2-because despite everything that happens here, I still like Japan, and 3-I will get my dream job of being an artist up and running. I am not SOFA status either, and I am still insulted by this nonsense. Where is the CCU? Gone. Why has disciplining our troops (as well as ourselves) gotten so complicated? When I was in as a junior rank, we simply took care of business...if someone wanted to be disrespectful, it was made painfully clear that it wouldn't be tolerated. I honestly believe that the Military is a refelection of our society...any we all know how home discipline is slipping there...Why are we ALL placed into one group and no one says anything in our defense...ever? Yes, I get stupid looks from the locals until I tell them in Nihongo to please stop glaring at me, I am not SOFA and even if I was, I didn't do anything wrong. I am saying OUR and WE because believe it or not, WE ALL ARE TAKING AT LEAST SOME OF THE IMPACT of this. The protesters? I have spoken to a few after such dirty looks were glared my way...I simply said that I also condemn the incidents that recently occured...but it is UNWISE to assume that EVERYONE is at fault...and that I am NOT going to go away simply because someone who is predejudiced and is chomping at the bit to rub a "Gaijin's" nose in this hasn't got the common sense to see that it isn't everyone who is at fault. Believe me, I have just started to fight on this one. As for the SOFA status people...It sucks, believe me, I know...but I feel your pain, believe it or not. If I see someone screwing up, I will let them know about it, just as I have done in the past. I am prepping a letter to the Japan Times with my thoughts on this. You can't be heard if you don't speak. Keep your heads up.

[gunny8511]

Son Kokujin, there's no pain to feel for most of us; it's not really a big deal not being allowed to shop off base. It's an inconvenience, nothing more.

I too am troubled by being lumped into a single group, all of the members of said group being painted the same shade as the idiots that screw up. Discipline has indeed changed in the military, and it's a sad state of affairs. Rest assured though, there are still plenty of young men and women that do have moral fiber.

[RenaissanceMan]

Same Old Song I Say,

Maybe we should break out and old copy of The Seven Samurai, or the Magnificent Seven. The will paint a very clear picture of what is going on here in Okinawa. But, just as every American is not bad, neither are the Okinawans, my wife being an Uchina herself, but there are crazy people and great people in every society all over the world.

[whatthe...!!]

it's not really a big deal not being allowed to shop off base. It's an inconvenience, nothing more.

But it is an inconvenience for some of us though. Not only do I live out in town and spend virtually all of free time there, I'm also a homeowner and when things come up dealing with repairs, property and other things I now have to ask for permission. Permission as I have been told already that will be denied becuase I cannot go shopping out in town.

[Son Kokujin]

Gunny's right - this is not a lockdown...it's a lockout. Locked out of all of the places off-base you would normally go. And the establishments of off-base don't use the term lockdown either - they prefer boycott, embargo, sanction...

Get beyond the semantics and it's all a collection of unintended consequences...

Hmmm...makes sense. I see where you're coming from.:thumbup1::thumbup1:

[DougP]

it's not really a big deal not being allowed to shop off base. It's an inconvenience, nothing more.

But it is an inconvenience for some of us though. Not only do I live out in town and spend virtually all of free time there, I'm also a homeowner and when things come up dealing with repairs, property and other things I now have to ask for permission. Permission as I have been told already that will be denied becuase I cannot go shopping out in town.

And man is it ever impossible to find what you need on base for home repairs on a Japanese house.:thumbdown: That's one thing they don't seem to have covered. That and the specific type of trash bags you are required to have by the local town office. Without them you're not getting your trash picked up.

Unfortunately for my wife and her family this has completely put her life and theirs on hold. Her family is a very close tight knit group and especially now that her sister is pregnant. Its nice to know I have to type up a letter with dates and places so my wife can conduct family business. I'm sure if another nation's military was forcing anyone of us to do the same back in the states we might not view it as just an inconvenience.

[gunny8511]

This could indeed be viewed as a boycott. There has been significant outcry for American military to leave Okinawa, and this might be an attempt to say, "be careful what you wish for." Will it crumble the Okinawan economy? Hardly. Will it hurt some businesses? Certainly. It's all an exercise in politics, and it won't have any real, lasting effects. Americans will continue to send thousands of troops over here each year, and some of them will undoubtedly be dumber than a box of rocks.

[gunny8511]

And man is it ever impossible to find what you need on base for home repairs on a Japanese house.:thumbdown: That's one thing they don't seem to have covered. That and the specific type of trash bags you are required to have by the local town office. Without them you're not getting your trash picked up.

Unfortunately for my wife and her family this has completely put her life and theirs on hold. Her family is a very close tight knit group and especially now that her sister is pregnant. Its nice to know I have to type up a letter with dates and places so my wife can conduct family business. I'm sure if another nation's military was forcing anyone of us to do the same back in the states we might not view it as just an inconvenience.

So, no joy on the fact that the SOFA cannot restrict the actions of local nationals in their own country? What has the SJA had to say about that? Sounds like a load of crap to me.

[OkiMike]

edited for content

[tanigua]

Son Kokujin, there's no pain to feel for most of us; it's not really a big deal not being allowed to shop off base. It's an inconvenience, nothing more.

I too am troubled by being lumped into a single group, all of the members of said group being painted the same shade as the idiots that screw up. Discipline has indeed changed in the military, and it's a sad state of affairs. Rest assured though, there are still plenty of young men and women that do have moral fiber.

You’re right, it’s not painful – but it goes beyond being a mere inconvenience. There are two issues here; Tyrone the dipshit, and the commands’ response to his actions. With few exceptions, the majority of posters here recognize that he (Hadnott) is an anomaly and does not reflect the behavior or attitude of the military members and DoD civilians that enjoy living and working in Okinawa. Nor do most of the Okinawan’s feel that he somehow represents the majority - there is small, but shrill minority that will use any advantage possible.

That being said, what is most puzzling is the commands’ collective response to the situation. The headline should read “US Military in Okinawa declares marshal law – on itself.” Their actions are rife with irony. While I appreciate the original intent of the “period of reflection”, I think we have now arrived at the point where we begin to rationalize away, to our detriment, the real consequences of what has occurred as mere “inconvenience.”

I think the confusion, aggravation, and divisiveness that has resulted from this approach, far exceeds any benefit we would hope to gain from it.

[DougP]

So, no joy on the fact that the SOFA cannot restrict the actions of local nationals in their own country? What has the SJA had to say about that? Sounds like a load of crap to me.

It does sound like a load of crap to me as well. But when I called the IG I was told that she does fall under SOFA.. I explained to them that in the SOFA it clearly states that the US military does not have the right to restrict the movement of local citizens. Well they weren't hearing that. They said SOFA is SOFA and this restriction order applies to her as well. When I called SJA they said that it did not apply to her. Then III MEF and our COR put out to all of us that this rule does apply to Japanese spouses and if they fail to follow it there will be consequences. So on one hand I have the III MEF, COR and IG telling me one thing and the SJA telling me another. Fun times.

[whatthe...!!]

I believe this has also created an very negative affect in the trust department with the locals as well. This morning a DOD's teacher was detaing by the casheir no less while trying to pay a bill. JP's were called and after an hour of waiting with permission slip in hand the JP's show up and say it ok for the American to be there.

[Tanimaga]

It does sound like a load of crap to me as well. But when I called the IG I was told that she does fall under SOFA.. I explained to them that in the SOFA it clearly states that the US military does not have the right to restrict the movement of local citizens. Well they weren't hearing that. They said SOFA is SOFA and this restriction order applies to her as well. When I called SJA they said that it did not apply to her. Then III MEF and our COR put out to all of us that this rule does apply to Japanese spouses and if they fail to follow it there will be consequences. So on one hand I have the III MEF, COR and IG telling me one thing and the SJA telling me another. Fun times.


More selective enforcement.

[koralle]

This is what troubles me most:
4. The suspension of human/civil rights is always more than an inconvenience, rights like the freedom of movement and association, to ones innocence until proven guilty. from OkiMike's post!!!!

It feels to me as, our rights as dependants are not important to the military. It seems to perfectly okay for my husband to go to war and me stay behind and tend the "homefires", but it is not okay to eat coco's????

[gunny8511]

1. Speak for yourself.

2. I know people who lost money...lot's of money...because they paid for hotel reservations, concert tickets, etc. for their anniversary which they were denied leave. Of course, most requests were granted to most people, but there were a number of people who got the fat end of the stick. And when you leave the approval up to the whims of their supervisor, there's no guarantees when the supervisor turns out to be a royal dickface.

3. Many of us don't receive COLA and can't afford "palaces" in which to spread our legs after work hours.

4. The suspension of human/civil rights is always more than an inconvenience, rights like the freedom of movement and association, to ones innocence until proven guilty.

5. Judging by Son Kokujin's experience and mine as well, the fact that the locals know that all SOFA-holding persons are under "house arrest" allows many locals the liberty to assume that we are all guilty to some degree.

So, if you're not SOFA, what's the problem? In addition, your reference to "house arrest" is a misnomer. As I stated previously, terms like that are false. We can all move about the island freely; we just can't spend our cash at off base establishments (but I suspect that you can). "Palaces?" You must be referring to the housing on Kadena. The rest of us live in pretty spartan quarters, compared to the states. Gotta love that Air Force housing...

[OkiMike]

edited for content

[DougP]

So, if you're not SOFA, what's the problem? In addition, your reference to "house arrest" is a misnomer. As I stated previously, terms like that are false. We can all move about the island freely; we just can't spend our cash at off base establishments (but I suspect that you can). "Palaces?" You must be referring to the housing on Kadena. The rest of us live in pretty spartan quarters, compared to the states. Gotta love that Air Force housing...

Just to add a little information here. You brought up that we can move freely about the island but just cannot buy anything off base. My in laws live within easy walking distance from us(maybe 2 clicks) but I obviously cannot go out of my house and walk there, not without written permission. I wouldn't be buying anything off base but I cannot go for a jog when the mood strikes.. at least not off base. Technically from the word I'm getting from higher is that we are NOT free to roam the island.

[proudtobnotpc]

Just to add a little information here. You brought up that we can move freely about the island but just cannot buy anything off base. My in laws live within easy walking distance from us(maybe 2 clicks) but I obviously cannot go out of my house and walk there, not without written permission. I wouldn't be buying anything off base but I cannot go for a jog when the mood strikes.. at least not off base. Technically from the word I'm getting from higher is that we are NOT free to roam the island.

dude maybe its just me but I don't think anyone would care what you did

[OkiMike]

edited for content

[DougP]

dude maybe its just me but I don't think anyone would care what you did

Probably not, but would you risk it and chance getting fired or your wife fired?

[proudtobnotpc]

Probably not, but would you risk it and chance getting fired or your wife fired?

thats not gonna happen you are not Active duty

[Tanimaga]

Did this thread just suddenly restart?

[gunny8511]

As DougP pointed out, we are not just limited to doing business off-base. We cannot jog, bicycle or step foot outside our apartments unless it is to head toward an "approved destination". For an example of the inanity, surely you read the FAQ that asked about our being able to walk our pets and let them "do their business" and whether or not that was allowed. The response? No walking allowed except on-base. Letting pets do their business off-base is ok, but then you must immediately return to your residence.

Technically, I cannot even purchase a soda from the vending machine that sits near the door of our apartment complex and I run the risk of being debarred from base if an NCIS agent "happened" to see me doing so.

[added]: Actually, I am SOFA, but I was grouping myself with Son's experience because of the nasty/surprised looks I've received when stepping outside into the local community. Makes me wonder if this was how lepers felt when walking through their towns and having people yell "unclean, unclean!" at them as they passed...

I guess I need to get to your neighborhood more, wherever that may be. I've received no harsh looks out in town, no problems with JPs/MPs, and no rudeness whatsoever from locals. I've heard of it taking place, but only second hand (such as on here).

[proudtobnotpc]

Did this thread just suddenly restart?

yeah kind of strange

[DougP]

thats not gonna happen you are not Active duty

but what about that threat to strip me of base access:D You know how it can be. I'm not about to jump on that grenade just so I can tell you how it all went tomorrow.:D

[proudtobnotpc]

but what about that threat to strip me of base access:D You know how it can be. I'm not about to jump on that grenade just so I can tell you how it all went tomorrow.:D
bro very unlikely that that would happen you see black and white only than continue to live in your sheltered world

[Tanimaga]

I just hope something with some substance can be figured out before we all turn into Hogan's Heros.

[DougP]

bro very unlikely that that would happen you see black and white only than continue to live in your sheltered world

?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????

Come again???

[Tanimaga]

Are you on the same island as the rest of us? Or Okanawa?

[DougP]

Me? I'm here on Okinawa

[Tanimaga]

No..proudtobnotpc.

I recieved an Email at work today to be on the lookout for my fellow Americans off base, and report them. Seems pretty real to me.

[proudtobnotpc]

I just hope something with some substance can be figured out before we all turn into Hogan's Heros.
maybe I'm wrong but if you change the context a little. This whole thing started because a military member violated a local national. There seems to be case for the military continuing to violate (civil liberties) the spouses who are local nationals. Do you really think they will push this issue further? by banning them from base? I don't they are trying (blindly) to quell further protests and expedite the move of Futema while at the same time showing the Okinawan community just how much $$ comes from they're American friends- just food for thought

[koralle]

I think, that is the main focuss : showing the okinawans how much money this can cost them and the other focuss is showing the japanese government that they are doing something about it....
Here is my question:
Where is it written that they can restrict dependants??? I really want to know.

[Big_Papa]

It does sound like a load of crap to me as well. But when I called the IG I was told that she does fall under SOFA.. I explained to them that in the SOFA it clearly states that the US military does not have the right to restrict the movement of local citizens. Well they weren't hearing that. They said SOFA is SOFA and this restriction order applies to her as well. When I called SJA they said that it did not apply to her. Then III MEF and our COR put out to all of us that this rule does apply to Japanese spouses and if they fail to follow it there will be consequences. So on one hand I have the III MEF, COR and IG telling me one thing and the SJA telling me another. Fun times.


Well Dougie, SJA is the lawyers. They are the ones determining what is legal or not. If they tell you (as they told me) that our Japanese spouses can come and go as they please, then guess what. They have the lawyers and the judges. The commands can go pound sand. If you're military, like me, if they try to NJP / punish you for your JP spouse SJA is going to tell them to pound sand. IIIMEF is full of shit, I know cuz I work for them. They couldn;t find their ass with both hands.

But...since big Dick is in Korea until Sat, we'll just have to wait for the other nonsense. As for the wife, I tell her to have fun. The IG aren't lawyers and neither is the III MEF staff. **** 'em... (pardon my french).

[proudtobnotpc]

No..proudtobnotpc.

I recieved an Email at work today to be on the lookout for my fellow Americans off base, and report them. Seems pretty real to me.

would you really report them?

[Tanimaga]

would you really report them?

You've got to be joking..I'm no lapdog.

[Big_Papa]

would you really report them?

Hell yeah, wouldn't you. F&$( No, if their nut sack is that big, i say go for it. I have an extremely shady command, so I don't really feel like chancing anything right now.

Maybe later...

[Big_Papa]

Agreement Under Article VI of the Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security between the United States of America and Japan, Regarding Facilities and Areas and the Status of U.S. Armed Forces in Japan
19th January, 1960



The United States of America and Japan, pursuant to Article VI of the Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security between the United States of America and Japan signed at Washington on January 19, 1960, have entered into this Agreement in terms as set forth below:

ARTICLE I

In this Agreement the expression -


(a) "members of the United States armed forces" means the personnel on active duty belonging to the land, sea or air armed services of the United States of America when in the territory of Japan.

(b) "civilian component" means the civilian persons of United States nationality who are in the employ of, serving with, or accompanying the United States armed forces in Japan, but ex-cludes persons who are ordinarily resident in Japan or who are mentioned in paragraph 1 of Article XIV. For the purposes of this Agreement only, dual nationals, United States and Japanese, who are brought to Japan by the United States shall be considered as United States nationals.
(c) "dependents" means
Spouse, and children under 21;
Parents, and children over 21, if dependent for over half their support upon a member of the United States armed forces or civilian component.



I just wanted to post this before I go to bed. Maybe I should've put it in the "IS THIS LEGAL" forum.

Here is the link: http://www.niraikanai.wwma.net/pages/archive/sofa.html

[Okihwn]

"...the specific type of trash bags you are required to have by the local town office. Without them you're not getting your trash picked up."

Good point! The KAB commissary going to stock up on the trash bags for Chatan, Yomitan, Okinawa City, etc.? The Foster commissary going stock up for Chatan, Urasoe, etc.?

[momo-chan]

I hope you all don't mind me jumping in.... My Japanese friend who works at San-A Main City emailed me tonight and said she has seen a TON of American families in there and asked me if the restriction was lifted yet. I rarely go on base except for the necessities, since we live off-base and this restriction totally sucks! I won't even take my baby for a walk outside for fear of being reported.

[Oki Cajun]

not only am i british but im also not sofa

im so glad this shit doesnt affect me

blahblahblahblah

Yeah ur really rucky.

[Magilla]

If you are not going anywhere in town, how would you know how they are treating us? Odd.

I'm with the others. The "leadership" is doing more damage than good at this point. How embarrassing! This is the oldest play in the book. When you can't actually lead - punish everyone!

[Magilla]

Some people are obviously ignoring it.

[Muku]

Agreement Under Article VI of the Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security between the United States of America and Japan, Regarding Facilities and Areas and the Status of U.S. Armed Forces in Japan
19th January, 1960



The United States of America and Japan, pursuant to Article VI of the Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security between the United States of America and Japan signed at Washington on January 19, 1960, have entered into this Agreement in terms as set forth below:

ARTICLE I

In this Agreement the expression -


(a) "members of the United States armed forces" means the personnel on active duty belonging to the land, sea or air armed services of the United States of America when in the territory of Japan.

(b) "civilian component" means the civilian persons of United States nationality who are in the employ of, serving with, or accompanying the United States armed forces in Japan, but ex-cludes persons who are ordinarily resident in Japan or who are mentioned in paragraph 1 of Article XIV. For the purposes of this Agreement only, dual nationals, United States and Japanese, who are brought to Japan by the United States shall be considered as United States nationals.
(c) "dependents" means
Spouse, and children under 21;
Parents, and children over 21, if dependent for over half their support upon a member of the United States armed forces or civilian component.



I just wanted to post this before I go to bed. Maybe I should've put it in the "IS THIS LEGAL" forum.

Here is the link: http://www.niraikanai.wwma.net/pages/archive/sofa.html


Also Japan does not recognize dual citizenships.:o

[ryukyuboi]

Doesn't Japan recognize dual citizenship up until the time the person becomes a legal adult? Maybe the law has changed, but at one time I do know that some individuals, usually minors, had passports from both Japan and the USA.

[Ammoyankee]

Doesn't Japan recognize dual citizenship up until the time the person becomes a legal adult? Maybe the law has changed, but at one time I do know that some individuals, usually minors, had passports from both Japan and the USA.


All three of my children possess both...

[RChan]

I hope you all don't mind me jumping in.... My Japanese friend who works at San-A Main City emailed me tonight and said she has seen a TON of American families in there and asked me if the restriction was lifted yet. I rarely go on base except for the necessities, since we live off-base and this restriction totally sucks! I won't even take my baby for a walk outside for fear of being reported.

They were probably there for the recent Sofa Status 50% sale.. Dont know if its still going on.

[xXNothingnessXx]

I think, that is the main focuss : showing the okinawans how much money this can cost them and the other focuss is showing the japanese government that they are doing something about it....
Here is my question:
Where is it written that they can restrict dependants??? I really want to know.


I have seen two posts, in two different topic, with you asking where the military can restrict dependants. If you have read every post in the topics where you asked that question, you would have read atleast 80 posts about SOFA. The guidance I have recieved is that if the dependant is a Japanese national they are allowed to move about freely but without thier military spouse. Everyone else that is in a SOFA status will abide by the General Order.

In addition I don't think this is a matter about "making the economy feel the effects" but more of a political statement and a precautionary measure. I am sure if there were not on base incidents over this weekend we would probably be off lock down. Hopefully this weekend servicemen will think twice about going to the E-club to get shit faced and start trouble. Or maybe keep thier SOFA status, non Japanese nationals, from violating orders.

[Tony Stacks]

Agreement Under Article VI of the Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security between the United States of America and Japan, Regarding Facilities and Areas and the Status of U.S. Armed Forces in Japan
19th January, 1960



The United States of America and Japan, pursuant to Article VI of the Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security between the United States of America and Japan signed at Washington on January 19, 1960, have entered into this Agreement in terms as set forth below:

ARTICLE I

In this Agreement the expression -


(a) "members of the United States armed forces" means the personnel on active duty belonging to the land, sea or air armed services of the United States of America when in the territory of Japan.

(b) "civilian component" means the civilian persons of United States nationality who are in the employ of, serving with, or accompanying the United States armed forces in Japan, but ex-cludes persons who are ordinarily resident in Japan or who are mentioned in paragraph 1 of Article XIV. For the purposes of this Agreement only, dual nationals, United States and Japanese, who are brought to Japan by the United States shall be considered as United States nationals.
(c) "dependents" means
Spouse, and children under 21;
Parents, and children over 21, if dependent for over half their support upon a member of the United States armed forces or civilian component.



I just wanted to post this before I go to bed. Maybe I should've put it in the "IS THIS LEGAL" forum.

Here is the link: http://www.niraikanai.wwma.net/pages/archive/sofa.html




So this proves that Japanese spouses are exempt unless they are US citizens.:old:

[Muku]

Doesn't Japan recognize dual citizenship up until the time the person becomes a legal adult? Maybe the law has changed, but at one time I do know that some individuals, usually minors, had passports from both Japan and the USA.
Good point, yes you are correct. My mistake, I should have been more specific in my reply, I wasnt thinking about children.

Thank you.

[Obi san]

This is BS i just got off of a month of leave to move my wife and kid to oki. All my kids been talkin about since we got here was how she wants to see the big fishies up at the aquarium. Shes three, How am i supose to explane to her she can't!?

[P_chan]

Hopefully this weekend servicemen will think twice about going to the E-club to get shit faced and start trouble.

Show me a weekend that something doesn't go down at the E club. That's why I hate that place.

[Craig_Sunabe]

I just hope this ends for civilians, before they stop the restriction entirely.

Otherwise, every time this happens we will have this happen to us again.

xXNothingnessXx- I think what koralle is saying is he/she wants to see something on paper that says SOFA civilians can be restricted by the General.

I also haven't seen anything... In fact what I can tell is they are just threatening to remove our SOFA status if we don't follow the General's order.

Coercion

The use of express or implied threats of violence or reprisal (as discharge from employment) or other intimidating behavior that puts a person in immediate fear of the consequences in order to compel that person to act against his or her will; also : the defense that one acted under coercion —see also DEFENSE, DURESS —compare UNDUE INFLUENCE

Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law, © 1996 Merriam-Webster, Inc.

[DougP]

I have seen two posts, in two different topic, with you asking where the military can restrict dependants. If you have read every post in the topics where you asked that question, you would have read atleast 80 posts about SOFA. The guidance I have recieved is that if the dependant is a Japanese national they are allowed to move about freely but without thier military spouse. Everyone else that is in a SOFA status will abide by the General Order.

In addition I don't think this is a matter about "making the economy feel the effects" but more of a political statement and a precautionary measure. I am sure if there were not on base incidents over this weekend we would probably be off lock down. Hopefully this weekend servicemen will think twice about going to the E-club to get shit faced and start trouble. Or maybe keep thier SOFA status, non Japanese nationals, from violating orders.

What's sad is that people are being forced and coerced into making a political statement for someone else's gain. That alone is pretty pathetic.

[Muku]

This is BS i just got off of a month of leave to move my wife and kid to oki. All my kids been talkin about since we got here was how she wants to see the big fishies up at the aquarium. Shes three, How am i supose to explane to her she can't!?


She cant right now, but she will be able to later. It's not like this is a death penalty or sentence of life in prison.

I've had three 3 year old's and if your child is anything like they were their attention span is about as long as my reply to you in this response.:D Dont you make a big deal out of it and she wont either. She feeds off of your emotions and responses.

Get her to think about something else, I'm pretty sure you can do that.

[Okihwn]

This is BS i just got off of a month of leave to move my wife and kid to oki. All my kids been talkin about since we got here was how she wants to see the big fishies up at the aquarium. Shes three, How am i supose to explane to her she can't!?

That seems to be the only way until the off-base restriction is rescinded.

[Oki0619]

This is BS i just got off of a month of leave to move my wife and kid to oki. All my kids been talkin about since we got here was how she wants to see the big fishies up at the aquarium. Shes three, How am i supose to explane to her she can't!?

You could start by telling her that daddy has been grounded because he cannot spell.

[DoctorP]

Tell her the damn truth. Why would you do anything else?

[Craig_Sunabe]

Here's a simple question:

Military members caught not following the General's order, will be punished under the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice), right?

And civilians will be punished under which law?

[Tony Stacks]

Here's a simple question:

Military members caught not following the General's order, will be punished under the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice), right?

And civilians will be punished under which law?


No law.
Administrative action from the Base Inspecter = Loss of SOFA status.

[Oki0619]

Here's a simple question:

Military members caught not following the General's order, will be punished under the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice), right?

And civilians will be punished under which law?

They cannot punish you all they can do is revoke your SOFA status, which = removing you from the Island.

[Muku]

They cannot punish you all they can do is revoke your SOFA status, which = removing you from the Island.

Could you please think about what you wrote here? :rolleyes:

[Craig_Sunabe]

They cannot punish you all they can do is revoke your SOFA status, which = removing you from the Island.

What gives them the authority to revoke my SOFA status, if the General's order was outside of his jurisdiction?

Or is there a document that shows that the General has jurisdiction over SOFA civilians while off-base?

[Muku]

What gives them the authority to revoke my SOFA status, if the General's order was outside of his jurisdiction?

Or is there a document that shows that the General has jurisdiction over SOFA civilians while off-base?

Because you have SOFA status whether on or off base he has jurisdiction.

Take a moment, actually a few minutes and read the SOFA. Without the SOFA status you would not be even able to live off base without proper authorization from the Japanese Government.

THe SOFA allows you to be here without that. His authorization is written in the SOFA.

Might I suggest starting here....
http://www.google.com/intl/en_ALL/images/logo.gif (http://www.google.com/) is your friend:-|

[Oki0619]

Could you please think about what you wrote here? :rolleyes:

Ok I used the term punishment as in he cannot put you in Jail, reduce your rank etc. I will be more clear for those of you not smart enough to read into it. :rolleyes:

[Oki0619]

Because you have SOFA status whether on or off base he has jurisdiction.

Take a moment, actually a few minutes and read the SOFA. Without the SOFA status you would not be even able to live off base without proper authorization from the Japanese Government.

THe SOFA allows you to be here without that. His authorization is written in the SOFA.

Could you please think about what you wrote here?:rolleyes:

With out the SOFA you would not even be able to enter Japan to work on base....

[Muku]

Ok I used the term punishment as in he cannot put you in Jail, reduce your rank etc. I will be more clear for those of you not smart enough to read into it. :rolleyes:

You wrote it, I just questioned it.

Dont like the response think about it before writing it. Plain and simple.


Edited to add here....

People can not read what you are thinking.:)

[Muku]

Could you please think about what you wrote here?:rolleyes:
With out the SOFA you would not even be able to enter Japan to work on base....

Take your own advice here....:rolleyes:


Wanna make a bet on that one? Name the price.......

I'll save you the need to type a response here......keywords here.

Local hire, ever heard of it?

[Oki0619]

I am trying to get a contact e-mail to start the Human rights issue for the Japanese Spouses but all I can find is this worthless web page.
http://www.moj.go.jp/ENGLISH/HB/hb.html

https://www.jinken.go.jp/cgi-bin/soudan/application.cgi
I think this is it but its in Japanese and I can only read part of it

[P_chan]

You could start by telling her that daddy has been grounded because he cannot spell.

Calm down Mr. Condesending. Looks like we've got another person who likes to jump on other users for their spelling:rolleyes:

[Oki0619]

devolution at its finest

[depwets]

No law.
Administrative action from the Base Inspecter = Loss of SOFA status.

wowowwow are you saying if i get caught off base doing whatever im not suppose, eat a burger or something i get my SOFA Taken? thats it? and nothing happens to my dad or mom or whatever?

[Tony Stacks]

wowowwow are you saying if i get caught off base doing whatever im not suppose, eat a burger or something i get my SOFA Taken? thats it?



Yup, that's it.

[DoctorP]

DocP needs a new sofa...the old one is sagging from his large ass sitting on it!

[depwets]

Yup, that's it.

Ahhh I see
well then I don't really care if i lose SOFA as long as it doest affect my parents

[Oki0619]

Take your own advice here....:rolleyes:


Wanna make a bet on that one? Name the price.......

I'll save you the need to type a response here......keywords here.

Local hire, ever heard of it?

Good luck on that one unless your content working for MCCS

[P_chan]

devolution at its finest

I think just about everyone knows about the built in spell checker, no reason to rag on everybody for not using it or mispelling certain words. You know, some people can't even install it on certain computers? Every think about that one?


Do me a favor and say this out loud:

I AM SOFA KING WE TODD DID!

[Oki0619]

Ok I will pander to the morons who cannot spell simple words and continue to bring children into this world, so that they in turn can cause the further spread of stupidity and the decline of society.
:ohmy:

But truthfully I rag on those who can't spell because it makes them look ignorant and in turn people will think their opinions are worthless.

[Mom2Boys]

Good! They can continue this for the next year and a half that I'm here for all I care. Hopefully, some of these Okinawan extremists will realize just how much we really do contribute to their economy. I feel bad for the business owners who already know that and will be hurting because of this...but clearly there are differing opinions of us being here.

[P_chan]

Ok I will pander to the morons who cannot spell simple words and continue to bring children into this world, so that they in turn can cause the further spread of stupidity and the decline of society.
:ohmy:

But truthfully I rag on those who can't spell because it makes them look ignorant and in turn people will think their opinions are worthless.

Yes, because you're above them so you HAVE TO let them know they spell things wrong:rolleyes: You really should change your username to Mr. Condescending. Again repeat after me, and make sure you say it loud enough so others can hear you!

I AM SOFA KING WE TODD DID!

Oh another thing! How fast do you type? How were you taught to type? A lot of people (me included) type very fast and were taught to ignore spelling mistakes once they type. Then go back and let the spell checker catch them. It's a very hard habit to break, and I have a bad habit of not proof reading what I just wrote once I write something on the internet. So combine that with the fast typing, and the fact that I can't install spell checker nor firefox on this computer, and you'll see some spelling mistakes. Sorry, I'm only human, I make mistakes. Too bad I can't be as "bright" as you.:rolleyes:

Now, remind me, whose opinions are more worthless? The guy/gal who tries to voice their opinion on matters but might be lacking in grammar skills. Or the pompous ass who's following people around the forum, calling them out on simple spelling mistakes:thumbdown:

[Craig_Sunabe]

Good! They can continue this for the next year and a half that I'm here for all I care. Hopefully, some of these Okinawan extremists will realize just how much we really do contribute to their economy. I feel bad for the business owners who already know that and will be hurting because of this...but clearly there are differing opinions of us being here.

I keep hearing things like this.

But normal Okinawan's are not the problem. They know we love to blow our paychecks off base, and I am sure they appreciate that to a certain extent.

But what should Okinawan's think when a professional organisation such as the US Military; can't seem to keep out of trouble?

Regardless of how many rapes/murders/DUI that happen by the locals... when it happens by military members, it is all the more shocking.

Oh well, one of my nice employees said he will bring me a bento for lunch :w00t: I had a craving for rice :D

[DougP]

[COLOR=black]I AM SOFA KING WE TODD DID!


You're the SOFA King???:ohmy: Let me go free!!!!!!!:(

[momo-chan]

Ooooohhh... I was just down at the PX and it won't be long before there is an uprising. I was standing in the ladies dept, and there were a couple of wives over near me by the cosmetics section who were about to tackle a group of locals who came in with their friend. "Just look at them. I can't believe they have the nerve to even come up in here." I meandered around and then about 3 minutes later there was a group of about 7 wives who were going on and on about how mad they were that the locals are even being allowed to be signed in as guests on base and then able to come to the PX and have their friend buy them whatever they pick up and put in the cart. Yikes!! I tried to sneak away, but they grabbed me as I was walking by and said "Did you see them?!" So I just said that I did, and hurried away. I didn't even want to get sucked into that brouhaha. Watch out!! Wives are on the rampage!!

[TheNoNamedOne]

Oh, that is funny, momo-chan. Thanks for that report.

[OkiMike]

edited for content

[momo-chan]

YW, Prosecutor... I think if this restriction continues, there is going to be a HUGE backlash. Wonder if we'll see any Americans protesting the entry of locals on-base? After what I witnessed today, I wouldn't be surprised.

Seriously, I think that Lockdown 2008 logo should be made into t-shirts. I'll buy!! :)

[DougP]

YW, Prosecutor... I think if this restriction continues, there is going to be a HUGE backlash. Wonder if we'll see any Americans protesting the entry of locals on-base? After what I witnessed today, I wouldn't be surprised.

Seriously, I think that Lockdown 2008 logo should be made into t-shirts. I'll buy!! :)

As I figured, this period of reflection was going to actually aid in incubating hatred and not developing and nurturing an understanding between two cultures. Well, back to the drawing board.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Wonder if we'll see any Americans protesting the entry of locals on-base? After what I witnessed today, I wouldn't be surprised.

No. Americans in the military/DOD system for the most part are conditioned to STFU and do as they are told. Sure, they will bitch and grumble, but they are usually satiated by that. They are not confidant enough to lead and organize such a finger in they eye movement to the command as a formal protest against locals from entering at the gates.

A few may write some letters to S&S or their congressman. That is about as far as they will go, in addition to cowardly bullying tactics by wives in groups such as finger pointing and pouncing on guests (like you have relayed to us) that have been rightfully invited on base by their friends or family who live there.

[TheNoNamedOne]

As I figured, this period of reflection was going to actually aid in incubating hatred and not developing and nurturing an understanding between two cultures. Well, back to the drawing board.

Maybe General Zilmer should have organized school trips of all 14 yr-old girls to come on the base and have a picnic with the troops so that that could aid and nurture understanding between these two distinct demographic groups.

You know, one big Anthony pizza party on blue plastic tarps on the parade field with school uniform skirts blowing up on a blustery day.

Maybe desensitizing the troops to the temptations they have given into would help them hold back on their urges. Immersion therapy.

[Craig_Sunabe]

Did anyone hear this????!

I had a phone call from someone working for MCSS...

There was a meeting between some SOFA civilians for MCCS and the US Consulate today.

They said that 70 people have been caught at off base restaurants/shops so far.

Also complaints from SOFA civilians were sent via US Embassy to the White House.

It is possible that the restriction will be lifted for civilians as early as Friday.

Can anyone confirm this?

[momo-chan]

I was just curious.... I was actually frightened by this group of wives.... I am sure if they knew I lived off-base and spent my whole 3 years here speaking more Japanese than English they may have labeled me a traitor. That's why I hurried away. I have witnessed very many rude acts towards the locals ("What do you mean you don't speak English?!") but this really bewildered me, and I shouldn't have been so shocked.

[P_chan]

I was just curious.... I was actually frightened by this group of wives.... I am sure if they knew I lived off-base and spent my whole 3 years here speaking more Japanese than English they may have labeled me a traitor. That's why I hurried away. I have witnessed very many rude acts towards the locals ("What do you mean you don't speak English?!") but this really bewildered me, and I shouldn't have been so shocked.

You had nothing to be scared of! As long as you're not asian looking, they won't turn on you. Well, unless you cover yourself with donuts or something along those lines. Then they might try to eat you.:D

[momo-chan]

Too funny! :)

[Muku]

Good luck on that one unless your content working for MCCS

Well then it contradicts your statement earlier now doesnt it? :rolleyes:

So which is it?

With out the SOFA you would not even be able to enter Japan to work on base....

Can you or can't you?:rolleyes:

There are people posting here that have SOFA as local hires too.

[momo-chan]

I just received an email from my KVC. Suggesting that we try GI Bill Pay as an alternative to getting a note signed by the O-6 so we can go out in town to pay our bills... As if I would pay a fee to automatically pay my bills!!

[EatMoreFish]

I just received an email from my KVC. Suggesting that we try GI Bill Pay as an alternative to getting a note signed by the O-6 so we can go out in town to pay our bills... As if I would pay a fee to automatically pay my bills!!

Geez!!! Here we go again. You DO NOT have to get any letter from anyone to go pay your bills!!!! This is a pre-existing obligation!!!! Go pay the damn bills and quit freaking out about all this.

[Mom2Boys]

But what should Okinawan's think when a professional organisation such as the US Military; can't seem to keep out of trouble?


Give me a break....rape, breaking and entering, and counterfeiting are terrible crimes that occur everyday all around the world by all walks of people. These are not crimes that are "American Only" or "Marines Only". Because you have 3 or 4 bad apples it's not necessary to assume the rest of us are the same. What kind of world do you live in that you think 100% of the people are going to do 100% of the right thing all the time??? I think it's absolutely ridiculous to demand that 8,000 Marines be removed from Okinawa based on a few idiots....and that my friend is the reason for the so-called lockdown. If you seriously think it's for any other reason then I'm afraid that you're sadly mistaken and living under a rock. I say keep the lockdown going until the locals are begging for our money again!!

[Tanimaga]

Geez!!! Here we go again. You DO NOT have to get any letter from anyone to go pay your bills!!!! This is a pre-existing obligation!!!! Go pay the damn bills and quit freaking out about all this.


I am required to get a waiver to drop by my housing office on the 7th of March, and also to pay my bills at Family Mart on the same day. This is per my flight chief and Colonel. First hand..no heresay.

[Tanimaga]

Well then it contradicts your statement earlier now doesnt it? :rolleyes:

So which is it?



Can you or can't you?:rolleyes:

There are people posting here that have SOFA as local hires too.

I entered Japan just fine..lived and worked with no problems for some time before getting a SOFA position.

[EatMoreFish]

I am required to get a waiver to drop by my housing office on the 7th of March, and also to pay my bills at Family Mart on the same day. This is per my flight chief and Colonel. First hand..no heresay.

Then the only thing I can say to that is that they are wrong. "Pre-existing obligations" I would think that your bills would fall into that catagory. The entire military just took common sence and threw it out the window.

[Tanimaga]

Then the only thing I can say to that is that they are wrong. "Pre-existing obligations" I would think that your bills would fall into that catagory. The entire military just took common sence and threw it out the window.

I agree. They are 100% wrong. It's just a shame it's going to take so long to prove it.

[momo-chan]

I was specifically told that the only things I could do without a waiver were drive to and from base. Everything else requires a waiver, EVEN paying bills at any of the convenience stores. It is a pre-existing obligation, yes that is true, but I was specifically told that if it was anywhere off-base I had to have a waiver in hand. That came straught from my husband's command as well.

[Muku]

I am required to get a waiver to drop by my housing office on the 7th of March, and also to pay my bills at Family Mart on the same day. This is per my flight chief and Colonel. First hand..no heresay.
Just an observation here but it seems to me that individual commands are interpreting this order as they see fit.

I feel sorry for everyone who has to deal with this crap.

[DougP]

You know what they say guys and gals. We make history either by letting things happen when we should speak up or by standing up for what we believe in.

[Jack Baretz]

I was specifically told that the only things I could do without a waiver were drive to and from base. Everything else requires a waiver, EVEN paying bills at any of the convenience stores. It is a pre-existing obligation, yes that is true, but I was specifically told that if it was anywhere off-base I had to have a waiver in hand. That came straught from my husband's command as well.

The Period of Reflection order was very specific on what is allowed. I would not take a chance on anything that was not on that order without a waiver. These are the allowed movements from the order:

Place of Duty
Place of Employment
Place of Worship
Place of Education
Place of Medical, Dental Veterinary Treatment
Airports (For pick up/drop off)
All On-base facilities
To transit between authorized residence (including off base housing) and and DOD installation via POV, military vehicle or taxi.


I find it amusing that the CG allows me to observe this period of reflection in an Okinawan Church, but will crucify me if I go to Starbucks.

[Muku]

Happy Birthday!!

[OkiMike]

edited for content

[Tanimaga]

Well, I just called the U.S. Consulate in Naha (098-876-4211) and asked them if there is anything a SOFA-status carrying American citizen can do to counteract this "rights" violation and, though certainly courteous, the officer on the other end said that the Consulate has no say in SOFA affairs, least of all that he could forward my complaint to DC.

His recommendation: call Base Legal.

Then he asked for my name and number saying that he'd contact me if he heard anything. Hey, what are those black, unmarked cars doing outside my apartment? ...


I have 100% trust that on base legal assistance will not be swayed by the fact that they are ON BASE legal assistance.

[momo-chan]

So is it true people are actually being stopped by JP's?

[Oki0619]

No. Americans in the military/DOD system for the most part are conditioned to STFU and do as they are told. Sure, they will bitch and grumble, but they are usually satiated by that. They are not confidant enough to lead and organize such a finger in they eye movement to the command as a formal protest against locals from entering at the gates.

A few may write some letters to S&S or their congressman. That is about as far as they will go, in addition to cowardly bullying tactics by wives in groups such as finger pointing and pouncing on guests (like you have relayed to us) that have been rightfully invited on base by their friends or family who live there.


Well apparently all of us active duty members are little b!tches cause we SFTU and do what were told or we could just go to jail, active duty members are prohibited by law from protesting the orders of seniors whether lawful or unlawful. Now for you big tough mouthy CTRs and civilians where are your protests and letters to the President???:rolleyes:

[Jack Baretz]

Well apparently all of us active duty members are little b!tches cause we SFTU and do what were told or we could just go to jail, active duty members are prohibited by law from protesting the orders of seniors whether lawful or unlawful. Now for you big tough mouthy CTRs and civilians where are your protests and letters to the President???:rolleyes:

Just spent $1500 on legal fees to get told that there is nothing civilians can really do. CG has us by the balls this time. If it were related to readiness, then we would be entitled to Standby Pay according to Fair Labor Standards. However, it looks like the CG's legal staff has done their homework by keeping Readiness out of it, so we are screwed just like the military.

I still find it amuzing that I can go to an Okinawan Church to reflect, but not Starbucks.

[Tanimaga]

Well apparently all of us active duty members are little b!tches cause we SFTU and do what were told or we could just go to jail, active duty members are prohibited by law from protesting the orders of seniors whether lawful or unlawful. Now for you big tough mouthy CTRs and civilians where are your protests and letters to the President???:rolleyes:

I believe he meant civilians as well.. Americans in the military/DOD system include us all.

[P_chan]

Give me a break....rape, breaking and entering, and counterfeiting are terrible crimes that occur everyday all around the world by all walks of people. These are not crimes that are "American Only" or "Marines Only". Because you have 3 or 4 bad apples it's not necessary to assume the rest of us are the same. What kind of world do you live in that you think 100% of the people are going to do 100% of the right thing all the time??? I think it's absolutely ridiculous to demand that 8,000 Marines be removed from Okinawa based on a few idiots....and that my friend is the reason for the so-called lockdown. If you seriously think it's for any other reason then I'm afraid that you're sadly mistaken and living under a rock. I say keep the lockdown going until the locals are begging for our money again!!


Hmmmmm now why would Okianwans want all military off this island. That's a tough question but I think I've got your answer. Maybe.....just maybe.....it's because......IT'S THEIR FREAKING ISLAND!

[Naminori79]

Okay, I have read many discussions, complaints, etc. regarding the lockdown and its application to civilian contractors and DoD civilians. Basically they all amount to pointless whining. Lets do something. Below is a description of my own actions, if you have the testicular or ovarian fortitude you can do the same thing!!

Step 1: Gather any pertinent info on the lockdown, e.g. copy of the message, the overall situation and how it affects you (just facts, not my brother's cousin's uncle got deported crap we keep hearing about) , the phone number to Lt. General Zilmer's office (call the base operator, they will be more than happy to provide it! ).

Step 2: Contact your elected representative's office by phone. If you don't have a clue who your congressman/woman and two Senators are then navigate to this web page http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/ click on your state or enter your state-side address and whala!

Step 3: Briefly describe the situation to the representative's staff and don't get emotional - just the facts ma'am.

Step 4: More than likely they will give you their email address (e.g. jon.doe@mail.house.gov) and ask for a written description of your problem.

Step 5: Sit back and wait. Although, I received a read receipt about 30 minutes after I sent the message I am still waiting any action etc, - it has been less that 12 hours.

REMEMBER, there are two types of people in this world; do'ers and those who get things done to them.

[P_chan]

Well apparently all of us active duty members are little b!tches cause we SFTU and do what were told or we could just go to jail, active duty members are prohibited by law from protesting the orders of seniors whether lawful or unlawful. Now for you big tough mouthy CTRs and civilians where are your protests and letters to the President???:rolleyes:


Please tell me where it says I have to obey an unlawful order from my command? While, I'm not calling the lockdown unlawful, I'm fairly certain I don't have to follow unlawful orders.

[P_chan]

Okay, I have read many discussions, complaints, etc. regarding the lockdown and its application to civilian contractors and DoD civilians. Basically they all amount to pointless whining. Lets do something. Below is a description of my own actions, if you have the testicular or ovarian fortitude you can do the same thing!!

Step 1: Gather any pertinent info on the lockdown, e.g. copy of the message, the overall situation and how it affects you (just facts, not my brother's cousin's uncle got deported crap we keep hearing about) , the phone number to Lt. General Zilmer's office (call the base operator, they will be more than happy to provide it! ).

Step 2: Contact your elected representative's office by phone. If you don't have a clue who your congressman/woman and two Senators are then navigate to this web page http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/ click on your state or enter your state-side address and whala!

Step 3: Briefly describe the situation to the representative's staff and don't get emotional - just the facts ma'am.

Step 4: More than likely they will give you their email address (e.g. jon.doe@mail.house.gov) and ask for a written description of your problem.

Step 5: Sit back and wait. Although, I received a read receipt about 30 minutes after I sent the message I am still waiting any action etc, - it has been less that 12 hours.

REMEMBER, there are two types of people in this world; do'ers and those who get things done to them.


Ewwww spammer! How many times are you gonna post this:barf:

[badkitty]

<--- is getting tired of reflecting.... wants to start shopping...... not at Aafes....

[momo-chan]

<--- is getting tired of reflecting.... wants to start shopping...... not at Aafes....

Who actually orders the clothes for the ladies' dept at the PX anyway?!?!?! Horrible!!!! Blech!!! :thumbdown:

[badkitty]

Hey there are ALOT and I mean ALOT women that LOVE those clothes, I just so happen to NOT be one of them.... I don't even buy socks there....

[katyp1203]

Okay, I have read many discussions, complaints, etc. regarding the lockdown and its application to civilian contractors and DoD civilians. Basically they all amount to pointless whining. Lets do something. Below is a description of my own actions, if you have the testicular or ovarian fortitude you can do the same thing!!

Step 1: Gather any pertinent info on the lockdown, e.g. copy of the message, the overall situation and how it affects you (just facts, not my brother's cousin's uncle got deported crap we keep hearing about) , the phone number to Lt. General Zilmer's office (call the base operator, they will be more than happy to provide it! ).

Step 2: Contact your elected representative's office by phone. If you don't have a clue who your congressman/woman and two Senators are then navigate to this web page http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/ click on your state or enter your state-side address and whala!

Step 3: Briefly describe the situation to the representative's staff and don't get emotional - just the facts ma'am.

Step 4: More than likely they will give you their email address (e.g. jon.doe@mail.house.gov) and ask for a written description of your problem.

Step 5: Sit back and wait. Although, I received a read receipt about 30 minutes after I sent the message I am still waiting any action etc, - it has been less that 12 hours.

REMEMBER, there are two types of people in this world; do'ers and those who get things done to them.



I have been DOING concrening this matter. I contacted my husbands command and asked some VERY hard questions and evidently they were so hard that they replied by actually saying that they are awaiting a reply from legal to my questions because they did not know the answer. I also contacted the Stars and Stripes today and did an interview over the phone and wrote a letter to the Oki Mar. Sure can't wait to see what legal is going to have to say!

[Steganos]

So your only option when someone throws a potentially unconstitutional law in your face is to "yessir" them?

Grow a spine, file a grievance, or do anything else that shows you give two damns about your rights. Remember that saying, "Freedom isn't free?" Did you think that only applied to men with guns on the battlefield?
No OkiMike, it seems to apply also to wimps with computers like you.

[OkiMike]

No OkiMike, it seems to apply also to wimps with computers like you.

Uh, the answer I was looking for was that it applies to all of us "wimps" with computers.

Let's hear what you've done besides attack forum members who care.

[Steganos]

No law.
Administrative action from the Base Inspecter = Loss of SOFA status.
You mean the "Base Sphinther"?

[OkiSF]

I just received an email from my KVC. Suggesting that we try GI Bill Pay as an alternative to getting a note signed by the O-6 so we can go out in town to pay our bills... As if I would pay a fee to automatically pay my bills!!

my group Commander created a letter and send it out to the entire group via email so we are covered either way:thumbup1:

[DoctorP]

I just received an email from my KVC. Suggesting that we try GI Bill Pay as an alternative to getting a note signed by the O-6 so we can go out in town to pay our bills... As if I would pay a fee to automatically pay my bills!!

lol...who would reimburse the fee for you? I know that I would sure as hell claim it somewhere!

[Crazysix]

I have been DOING concrening this matter. I contacted my husbands command and asked some VERY hard questions and evidently they were so hard that they replied by actually saying that they are awaiting a reply from legal to my questions because they did not know the answer. I also contacted the Stars and Stripes today and did an interview over the phone and wrote a letter to the Oki Mar. Sure can't wait to see what legal is going to have to say!
And when hubby ends up insome shyt detail because the spouse didnt know her place , he can blame you

[OkiMike]

edited for content(although funny)

[OkiSF]

Ahhh I see
well then I don't really care if i lose SOFA as long as it doest affect my parents

you actually lose your command sponsorship not SOFA status. Which means you are sent back to the states and your parents have to find someone to care for you (particularly if they are military because they have to finish out their assignment). Not to mention you place your parents career in the negative light. This will also affect any future overseas assignments for your parents because the next command could say they don't want them because you can't follow the rules. There is alot that goes with losing command sponsorship. It will affect your parents.

[OkiMike]

edited for content

[socalheart]

you actually lose your command sponsorship not SOFA status. Which means you are sent back to the states...
If that is the case, then you could continue to live her with your spouse or parents; he or she just wouldn't receive benefits for you. I lived here under SOFA status for several months without command sponsorship.

[Big_Papa]

Let me remind everyone...
We don't live in a democracy. We defend it!

Now, stop bitching, get off the internet and go spend time with family...:P

[momo-chan]

Check out this blog post

http://spacetravelsacrime.blogspot.com/2008/02/free-okinawa.html

[Tony Stacks]

Let me remind everyone...
We don't live in a democracy. We defend it!




I do, I'm not SOFA status.:first:

[flower]

Let me remind everyone...
We don't live in a democracy. We defend it!

Now, stop bitching, get off the internet and go spend time with family...:P

OK......and you are on the internet..hmm=

[KumaNoPooh]

basicly this nut job General has an under handed way of dealing with this. If he feels that you are disruptive to the good order and discipline of the bases, (Violating His General Order) he can bar/ban you from them. For me being a self sponsored civilian, if I m barred/banned from the bases I can't go to work and lose my job. It's pretty dirty but thats his right. Thats how I precivie it. I could be wrong then again. I was pretty under handed in my day, I was a Criminal Investigator. thats what I would do.

[OkiSF]

If that is the case, then you could continue to live her with your spouse or parents; he or she just wouldn't receive benefits for you. I lived here under SOFA status for several months without command sponsorship.

there is nothing saying you can not re-enter the country if japan allows it. however, when you lose command sponsorship, then the orders that allowed you to be here become invalid you would have to leave and re-enter the country via normal visa requirements. i have seen some dependants who get ERD come back. what i didn't know until an incident arose was an ERD person who had returned to the island still had his SOFA status. (was informed by the legal office) not sure how that works.

[Uchinanchumuku]

Because you have SOFA status whether on or off base he has jurisdiction.

Take a moment, actually a few minutes and read the SOFA. Without the SOFA status you would not be even able to live off base without proper authorization from the Japanese Government.

THe SOFA allows you to be here without that. His authorization is written in the SOFA.

:-|

No where in the SOFA does it talk about liberty, restrictions or maintaining foreign relations with Japan. Nor does it grant authority to military commanders.

The General's Authority to restrict our liberty is given to him by the UCMJ. According to paragraph 0104B. "deprivation of normal liberty in a foreign country or in foreign territorial waters, when such action is deemed essential for the protection of the foreign relations of the United States, or as a result of international legal hold restriction.

This authority is only authorized while overseas, Stateside Commanders could not do this in CA or NC without applying NJP or court martial.

The legal question is...... Who falls under the UCMJ while in Japan?

[Muku]

No where in the SOFA does it talk about liberty, restrictions or maintaining foreign relations with Japan. Nor does it grant authority to military commanders.

The General's Authority to restrict our liberty is given to him by the UCMJ. According to paragraph 0104B. "deprivation of normal liberty in a foreign country or in foreign territorial waters, when such action is deemed essential for the protection of the foreign relations of the United States, or as a result of international legal hold restriction.

This authority is only authorized while overseas, Stateside Commanders could not do this in CA or NC without applying NJP or court martial.

The legal question is...... Who falls under the UCMJ while in Japan?
He is not creating the order with an eye to the sofa. He made the order as area coordinator and top military official here in Okinawa.

The people under sofa fall under his jurisdiction.

Stateside commanders could very well place his or her base under lockdown if they so choose to without njp or otherwise.

Base lockdowns happen quite often here, just not for long periods of time, but they happen more than people realize. Ever been stuck in a traffic jam trying to get off base because the gates going off base are closed? Same as a lockdown

Sure its for a different reason, but just using that example to show that it doesnt have to be njp or otherwise to do it. And I have experienced it in NC and California as well.

[okidokey]

Timely. One of my favorite blogs (Zen Habits) has a post today titled, "12 Practical Steps for Learning to Go with the Flow."

Excerpt:
No matter how much structure we create in our lives, no matter how many good habits we build, there will always be things that we cannot control — and if we let them, these things can be a huge source of anger, frustration and stress.

The simple solution: learn to go with the flow.

Link:
http://zenhabits.net/2008/02/12-practical-steps-for-learning-to-go-with-the-flow/

I'm not suggesting that we just meditate until this goes away, but offering it as a useful resource for any stress this situation has caused. :)

[atb35]

.A. THIS IS A PUNITIVE ORDER AND AS SUCH VIOLATION OF THIS ORDER BY ARMED FORCES PERSONNEL CAN RESULT IN PUNISHMENT UNDER THE UNIFORM CODE OF MILITARY JUSTICE. ALL OTHER SOFA STATUS PERSONNEL INCLUDING FAMILY MEMBERS ARE REMINDED THEY ARE SUBJECT TO THE FULL RANGE OF ADMINISTRATIVE SANCTIONS INCLUDING LOSS OF COMMAND SPONSORSHIP AND DEBARMENT.

That is an excerpt from the directive that was passed down. Nowhere in there does it state non-military members would be punished under UCMJ, and nowhere does it say that non-military members are required to adhere to the order. It merely reminds them they could be held accountable if they choose not to follow this directive.

[Uchinanchumuku]

Stateside commanders could very well place his or her base under lockdown if they so choose to without njp or otherwise.

Negative Muku,

Contrary to many beliefs....Liberty is a right not a privledge. Read the UCMJ paragraph 104. "Deprivation of normal liberty as a punishment, except as specifcally authorized under the UCMJ is illegal"

Stateside commanders can only restrict liberty thru NJP or courtmartials.

This special authority to place personnel on liberty restriction without NJP is only granted to overseas commanders.

[xXNothingnessXx]

Commanders can take away liberty at anytime as long as they have a justifiable reason. The last time I got back from Iraq my unit had a serious problem with alcohol related incidents (DUI, underage drinking, drunken fights, ect) Our CO went through all of the conventional ways to thwart the incidents and his final solution was to take our weekend libo away for the entire battalion. So we went to work and had inspections all weekend. His reason for taking away libo was we needed to "train." Did we like it no, did Marines call their Congressmen, yes but it worked.

We still have liberty on island, the places we go are restricted

[DougP]

I do not think that a Marine getting picked up on suspicion or rape is justifiable grounds to restrict all of the proponents(military and non military alike) to activities on base and work or home and to prohibit commerce outside the gate. Basically to take up economic sanctions against the local economy.

What better way to stand up against the violations of Okinawans human rights by US service members by doing the same to the proponents of SOFA and restricting their activities when they have broken no law.

[xXNothingnessXx]

My post was directed more toward the previous posts about having to NJP or courtmartial someone to restrict libo. I guess I should have used a quote box. And my point was that we still have liberty.

[AFuel567]

I do not think that a Marine getting picked up on suspicion or rape is justifiable grounds to restrict all of the proponents(military and non military alike) to activities on base and work or home and to prohibit commerce outside the gate. Basically to take up economic sanctions against the local economy.

What better way to stand up against the violations of Okinawans human rights by US service members by doing the same to the proponents of SOFA and restricting their activities when they have broken no law.
You're missing the point, Gen Zilmer had to do something, the Okinawan, Tokyo and DC politicians were all up in arms and playing to the excited splinter groups, they suggested that maybe we should be locked on base. This is a master stroke, it appears to and does address the excited politicos concerns and it gives the mainstream a taste of life without our money. Is it inconvenient, sure, I can't go to the Union two doors away or get my spicy chicken at Family Mart, but getting all bent out of shape and SeaLawyering is nothing but a waste of energy. Maybe you'll discover a service you didn't know about on base, or just spend some quality time with the family, maybe the folks that rely on our money will smack the anti basers, who knows? So I have to drink Bud instead of Orion for a while, oh well, relax and let it play out.

AFuel567

[jodilee31]

I don't like this either but it is an aspect of military life you just have to accept (or get out of the military/government job). As for the dependents it all goes back to the newcomer orientation that everyone had to sit through...
" You aren't required to be here in Okinawa, just your spouse is... It is a privilege to be here with your family... if you don't like it there is a flight leaving Naha everyday"! Would you rather be restricted to base with your spouse or back in the States without them?
This period of reflection does not mean you are stuck here...you are free to go home!!

[Tanimaga]

This period of reflection does not mean you are stuck here...you are free to go home!!


For good or bad, home is Okinawa. Just ask my Okinawan family.

But you are absolutely correct..I am just going to hunker down, take what I have coming to me, and purr when my master strokes my glistening furr. I may even coo when it gets really rough.

[DougP]

I don't like this either but it is an aspect of military life you just have to accept (or get out of the military/government job). As for the dependents it all goes back to the newcomer orientation that everyone had to sit through...
" You aren't required to be here in Okinawa, just your spouse is... It is a privilege to be here with your family... if you don't like it there is a flight leaving Naha everyday"! Would you rather be restricted to base with your spouse or back in the States without them?
This period of reflection does not mean you are stuck here...you are free to go home!!

I don't buy into that "aspect of <fill in the blank> life that you have to accept" To me that is a load of bull. Not you jodilee, just that train of thought and I hope you can find away to get away from it someday. Hopefully someday you'll realize that no aspect of your life should prevent you from doing what you desire, wish for, and need. You may have to work hard for it and sometimes fight for it but you should never convince yourself that you do not deserve it!

[DougP]

I also want to ask something here...

When you are in the states is it a privilege or a right to be with your family?

Now for those of you who might say "but you're not in the states." don't bother. What many fail to realize here is that there are several maybe hundreds of us here that have been here for years and years. Some of us have local families. Some of us have children who have grown up here and have children of their own. To the people like us. This IS home. Home is not something you can base solely on nationality. To me, when you are home, you have every right to be there with your family.

[acidcrash]

No where in the SOFA does it talk about liberty, restrictions or maintaining foreign relations with Japan. Nor does it grant authority to military commanders.

The General's Authority to restrict our liberty is given to him by the UCMJ. According to paragraph 0104B. "deprivation of normal liberty in a foreign country or in foreign territorial waters, when such action is deemed essential for the protection of the foreign relations of the United States, or as a result of international legal hold restriction.

This authority is only authorized while overseas, Stateside Commanders could not do this in CA or NC without applying NJP or court martial.


ALL SOFA MEMBERS ALSO FALL UNDER SHARIA LAW and Japanese law. Allah Akbar.

[Shelley]

The lockdown is unfair, I live in Tokyo and was expecting my fiance to come home next week from Iwakuni base and now he's locked up like everyone else, as far as I'm concerned this is the same as being treated like a criminal.
Rapists will be rapists, pedophiles will remain pedophiles, it's not a ridiculous curfew on everyone else that is going to make it stop, innocent people should not be blamed and punished for one man's actions.
Americans were too kind by giving back Okinawa to Japan after war, locals should be thankful they did...and don't forget why the military is here.
-Just my two cents..

[Rollin_J's]

All your SOFA are belong to us!

[Muku]

The lockdown is unfair, I live in Tokyo and was expecting my fiance to come home next week from Iwakuni base and now he's locked up like everyone else, as far as I'm concerned this is the same as being treated like a criminal.
Rapists will be rapists, pedophiles will remain pedophiles, it's not a ridiculous curfew on everyone else that is going to make it stop, innocent people should not be blamed and punished for one man's actions.......

Are you aware of the reasons that this lockdown went into effect? It isnt just because of the alleged rape. Far from it, in fact if it was "just" that incident I would place a huge bet that it never would have occured.

The following incidents, immediately after the standown, were the main catalyst for the lockdown order being issued.

The DUI, the trespassing, the assault and rape of a Fillipino woman, and the counterfeiter incident. These incidents made the US Military really look like it couldnt control it's people, particularly after the stand down and mandatory classes that everyone evidently had to attend previous to going out on liberty for the Presidents Day weekend.

Sure the overwhelming majority of people did nothing wrong, as usual they dont. However if you just got lectured about local sensitivities and then went out and got into trouble thus making an already difficult situation worse what other option did the General have at the time?

The lockdown is more of a political statement to the Japanese government and people that finally the US Military is taking these issues and incidents seriously. I have to give the General credit for taking this step and enforcing this obviously very unpopular and frustrating decision to lock the bases down. It took balls in my opinion. Right or wrong, I think he did what he thought was right for the time, and to help alleviate the tensions and questions growing with Japan about the security agreement that Japan and the US have.

That said, I really feel for you and all the people that never have and probably never will do anything to put themselves into a situation where an incident like this would occur.

Good luck....things will get better in time.

[Muku]

Americans were too kind by giving back Okinawa to Japan after war, locals should be thankful they did...and don't forget why the military is here.


I wanted to comment separately on this one. Do you realize how many years after the war ended that the US returned Okinawa to Japanese control?

How many years would need to go by before you changed your thinking about this one....50, 100, 500? Seriously, I think that this kind of thinking does little to help alleviate misunderstandings and differences between the cultures here and comes across rather arrogantly about America and it's prescence here in Japan.

Oh and the US didnt just give it back either, Japan paid for it, and it is still paying for it to this day as well.

When did WWII end? Hell even to this day Russia still hasnt returned the islands it took from Japan during the closing days of WWII, dont you think it's time to put this kind of thinking behind and look to the future.

And lastly ...Are you old enough to remember or have experienced WWII? If you are then maybe I can understand your animosity and anger. Yet if you arent, are you just repeating something you learned from a history book?

Or have you inherited the anger of your ancestors as well?

[DougP]

Can anyone tell me if there's really ever any justification in* rounding people up of a certain nationality, even if in another country and putting them on restrictions when they have done no wrong?

If there were 15 incidences committed by Chinese nationals over a period of a week.. would anybody, Chinese government or Japanese government be justified in restricting every other law abiding Chinese national in Japan? Even in restricting them from engaging in commerce out on the local economy or visiting their family? Or how about restricting the Japanese spouses of those Chinese nationals?

*I think this is what through you off Muku

[Muku]

Can anyone tell me if there's really ever any justification to rounding people up of a certain nationality, even if in another country and putting them on restrictions when they have done no wrong?


The former East Germany, the former Soviet Union, North Korea, umm the Holocaust....are a few that pop into mind right off the bat as places or incidents that never needed a justification to round up anyone.

[DougP]

The former East Germany, the former Soviet Union, North Korea, umm the Holocaust....are a few that pop into mind right off the bat as places or incidents that never needed a justification to round up anyone.

................ ok ...................... I think you missed the point but Thanks for supporting my earlier satirical references between this situation and those of the past. So far I cannot see any justification for this one.. Looks like they took a few pages from some of the "greats" in History.

[okisteve]

The former East Germany, the former Soviet Union, North Korea, umm the Holocaust....are a few that pop into mind right off the bat as places or incidents that never needed a justification to round up anyone.

Ahhh, you forgot the internment of innocent US citizens of Japanese descent by none other than Uncle Sam. Hey people, how does a nice 3-year vacation in a desert sound? (No yakisoba shops). And when you go home your house and farms might not belong to you anymore.

[DougP]

Muku please see edited post:D its the beer I swear:D

[Muku]

................ ok ...................... I think you missed the point but Thanks for supporting my earlier satirical references between this situation and those of the past. So far I cannot see any justification for this one.. Looks like they took a few pages from some of the "greats" in History.

I got your point, Doug. I'm sorry for your situation too.

Just right now though and this might just be me here but the point is getting pointless recently.:(


No problem Doug...and I am jealous, I havent had my first one yet, damn you!:thumbup: Ok that does it....it's beer time. Thanks for reinforcing the thought DOug!

[DougP]

Ahhh, you forgot the internment of innocent US citizens of Japanese descent by none other than Uncle Sam. Hey people, how does a nice 3-year vacation in a desert sound? (No yakisoba shops). And when you go home your house and farms might not belong to you anymore.

Hey they have everything you need in those camps... its just a minor inconvenience :D

[Muku]

Ahhh, you forgot the internment of innocent US citizens of Japanese descent by none other than Uncle Sam. Hey people, how does a nice 3-year vacation in a desert sound? (No yakisoba shops). And when you go home your house and farms might not belong to you anymore.


Paybacks a mother fvker isnt it!:cursing:

I think I am going to start calling KAB the Kadena Internment Camp.

Along with the rest of the MC Bases as well. MC Internment Camp Futenma etc etc

[DougP]

I got your point, Doug. I'm sorry for your situation too.

Just right now though and this might just be me here but the point is getting pointless recently.:(

Can't give up man..... This stuff boggles my mind really... Muku, lemme just ask you something, being the guy you are now, today, can you see any reason why someone should tell you where you can or cannot go? When you haven't broken any laws. I mean, to say to you and your family you cannot purchase food at San-A, or go see your family members without a waiver. Does any of that make sense? Seriously? I know the point may be moot to you but man being caught up in the middle of it... :argh3::argh3::argh3: X (until further notice)

Actually I know I'm preaching to the choir on this one.:)

[okisteve]

Paybacks a mother fvker isnt it!:cursing:



Troof man. I can't think of one thing bad that I have done in my life that hasn't come back to me one way or another.:crying: That's the main drawback of living long.

[Muku]

Can't give up man..... This stuff boggles my mind really... Muku, lemme just ask you something, being the guy you are now, today, can you see any reason why someone should tell you where you can or cannot go? When you haven't broken any laws. I mean, to say to you and your family you cannot purchase food at San-A, or go see your family members without a waiver. Does any of that make sense? Seriously? I know the point may be moot to you but man being caught up in the middle of it... :argh3::argh3::argh3: X (until further notice)

Actually I know I'm preaching to the choir on this one.:)

No I cant see any reasonable reason either Doug, and I dont see either the benefits of getting worked up about something that takes time to change.

I look at it as trying to change the things I can change, and the ones I cant change today I work at a little bit each day to make improvements and make things better for those after me.

Ranting once in a while sure relieves stress, but bitching about the same things constantly instead of relieving stress builds it up and ends up hurting you more.

Doug you are a great guy, and I would hate to see you continue to stay this worked up about this situation. Take the energy and put into something positive that can improve or change the situation.....positive thinking guy.

Do you remember the post where I asked you a couple of questions.... the number 1 and 2? Your reply to both sounded fairly similar, work to ensure either way that things are clarified better so noone else has to go through this again in this fashion.

That sounded like a plan Doug....why not turn your energy into that instead of showing so much frustration here?

[Hawk1142]

Are you aware of the reasons that this lockdown went into effect? It isnt just because of the alleged rape. Far from it, in fact if it was "just" that incident I would place a huge bet that it never would have occured.

The following incidents, immediately after the standown, were the main catalyst for the lockdown order being issued.

The DUI, the trespassing, the assault and rape of a Fillipino woman, and the counterfeiter incident. These incidents made the US Military really look like it couldnt control it's people, particularly after the stand down and mandatory classes that everyone evidently had to attend previous to going out on liberty for the Presidents Day weekend.

Sure the overwhelming majority of people did nothing wrong, as usual they dont. However if you just got lectured about local sensitivities and then went out and got into trouble thus making an already difficult situation worse what other option did the General have at the time?

The lockdown is more of a political statement to the Japanese government and people that finally the US Military is taking these issues and incidents seriously. I have to give the General credit for taking this step and enforcing this obviously very unpopular and frustrating decision to lock the bases down. It took balls in my opinion. Right or wrong, I think he did what he thought was right for the time, and to help alleviate the tensions and questions growing with Japan about the security agreement that Japan and the US have.

That said, I really feel for you and all the people that never have and probably never will do anything to put themselves into a situation where an incident like this would occur.

Good luck....things will get better in time.

What happens when the lockdown is over?

The first weekend there will be multiple incidents, so are we going to go through this every time some service member does something stupid?

Like I said before, I think the CG pulled his trump card.

[Muku]

Troof man. I can't think of one thing bad that I have done in my life that hasn't come back to me one way or another.:crying: That's the main drawback of living long.

How damn true that is.:-|

Sometimes I get the feeling posting here, present company excluded :D, that I am getting paid back for all the hell I raised in school as a kid.:o

[Muku]

What happens when the lockdown is over?

The first weekend there will be multiple incidents, so are we going to go through this every time some service member does something stupid?

Like I said before, I think the CG pulled his trump card.

Maybe so, maybe not.....I would like to think that there wont be anything that happens, however like you wrote here, that may be wishful thinking.

There will always be "incidents" here in Okinawa with the US military, sadly it's just a matter of time.

[DougP]

Do you remember the post where I asked you a couple of questions.... the number 1 and 2? Your reply to both sounded fairly similar, work to ensure either way that things are clarified better so noone else has to go through this again in this fashion.

That sounded like a plan Doug....why not turn your energy into that instead of showing so much frustration here?

I look at it more like I am harvesting positive energy and applying to my posts.
I don't see anything negative about a post or comment that's in favor of people exercising rights or one that ridicules or condemns the the restriction of those rights.

Sorry if it does seem like a broken record. I do get the impression that most of those who do agree do not mind the continuation. Those who don't usually respond with a quickness and give a retort. If I was unable to respond to retorts here and exercise my voice then those plans that I spoke of would seem even more of an uphill battle. I do not view speaking out as a negative thing.. in fact it is quite liberating.:)

[okisteve]

Maybe so, maybe not.....I would like to think that there wont be anything that happens, however like you wrote here, that may be wishful thinking.

There will always be "incidents" here in Okinawa with the US military, sadly it's just a matter of time.

I think it's going to require a real stepup in training. Like maybe videos of Japanese prison life and a free sample of waterboarding.

[Muku]

I look at it more like I am harvesting positive energy and applying to my posts.
I don't see anything negative about a post or comment that's in favor of people exercising rights or one that ridicules or condemns the the restriction of those rights.



Here is a great example Doug, instead of just using it here for your posts apply it to a bigger scale and audience and figure out how to make the changes that you have pointed out here.

[okisteve]

Here is a great example Doug, instead of just using it here for your posts apply it to a bigger scale and audience and figure out how to make the changes that you have pointed out here.

I guess nobody took up a suggestion I made, that JU publish an article that expresses some of these viewpoints. I didn't read that article in Stars and Stripes very carefully, but it looked like there was some venting going on there also. What about reprinting that article and adding some more comments?

[DougP]

Here is a great example Doug, instead of just using it here for your posts apply it to a bigger scale and audience and figure out how to make the changes that you have pointed out here.

And a great example it is.:thumbup:
But now that I have some down time and can't go anywhere...... I suppose the "online" audience of the forums in Okinawa will have to suffice.

Its Friday, been a long week, I'm on beer #3 at the moment.
A few more beers might kill the pain of fighting conformity.:D


I'll try to remain calm but you better hope no body steps in and takes my place, Muku.:D:thumbup::first:

[DougP]

I guess nobody took up a suggestion I made, that JU publish an article that expresses some of these viewpoints. I didn't read that article in Stars and Stripes very carefully, but it looked like there was some venting going on there also. What about reprinting that article and adding some more comments?

The actual news paper(S&S) did seem like it had a few more interviews than the online article. It was on the cover of the front page too!

[Shelley]

I wanted to comment separately on this one. Do you realize how many years after the war ended that the US returned Okinawa to Japanese control?

How many years would need to go by before you changed your thinking about this one....50, 100, 500? Seriously, I think that this kind of thinking does little to help alleviate misunderstandings and differences between the cultures here and comes across rather arrogantly about America and it's prescence here in Japan.

Oh and the US didnt just give it back either, Japan paid for it, and it is still paying for it to this day as well.

When did WWII end? Hell even to this day Russia still hasnt returned the islands it took from Japan during the closing days of WWII, dont you think it's time to put this kind of thinking behind and look to the future.

And lastly ...Are you old enough to remember or have experienced WWII? If you are then maybe I can understand your animosity and anger. Yet if you arent, are you just repeating something you learned from a history book?

Or have you inherited the anger of your ancestors as well?


I have not inherited the anger of my ancestors, it would be ironic if I did, because I'm a quarter Japanese and European born in South America, so I couldn't possibly hold hatred against any country, I'm not old enough to have memories of WWII, but I do have many years of life experience under my belt, I'm a mother of two kids, living in Tokyo, a city where by now should be more flexible concerning foreigners here, instead I see my 10 year old sad when he comes home back from school telling me that he can't play with his best friend after schoool because his family do not allow the kid to play with foreigner kids, now after being here for 17 years, working and paying taxes as any Japanese citizen equally, we can not be treated like equal human beings, even having a Japanese heritage, sure let's not generalize a nation, but I speak the language I see the protests held here against foreigners and I've witnessed many times foreigners being treated like animals, if you ask me, then why I'm still here, I'll tell you, because even though I'm aware of how most Japanese people do not like foreigners, there are good sides of Japan that I do not take for granted, after so many years here one learns to 'read' the Japanese society and believe me it's not beautiful as you've seen in books back home, if someone is still stuck with the idea of WWII in their heads it's the Japanese not me.
All this protests the Japanese are doing against the military is an over reaction, do you read the Japanese news? do you follow the Japanese news on TV?
How many crimes would you say the Japanese citizens and other foreigners commit in Japan comparing to the military?
They let other foreigners who raped and murdered children go home unscathed without putting any effort into bringing them back to be punished, orto be punished in their own country and that happens because it's not as important for them as blaming a few military criminals and try to get every single of them out of the country, all because the presence of the military here still reminds them of the war and it always will.

[Shelley]

Are you aware of the reasons that this lockdown went into effect? It isnt just because of the alleged rape. Far from it, in fact if it was "just" that incident I would place a huge bet that it never would have occured.

The following incidents, immediately after the standown, were the main catalyst for the lockdown order being issued.

The DUI, the trespassing, the assault and rape of a Fillipino woman, and the counterfeiter incident. These incidents made the US Military really look like it couldnt control it's people, particularly after the stand down and mandatory classes that everyone evidently had to attend previous to going out on liberty for the Presidents Day weekend.

Sure the overwhelming majority of people did nothing wrong, as usual they dont. However if you just got lectured about local sensitivities and then went out and got into trouble thus making an already difficult situation worse what other option did the General have at the time?

The lockdown is more of a political statement to the Japanese government and people that finally the US Military is taking these issues and incidents seriously. I have to give the General credit for taking this step and enforcing this obviously very unpopular and frustrating decision to lock the bases down. It took balls in my opinion. Right or wrong, I think he did what he thought was right for the time, and to help alleviate the tensions and questions growing with Japan about the security agreement that Japan and the US have.

That said, I really feel for you and all the people that never have and probably never will do anything to put themselves into a situation where an incident like this would occur.

Good luck....things will get better in time.


Thank you, I'm positive that things will get better sometime too, once Japan is aware that they can not do without foreigners anymore, they're already aware of the birth rate that keeps decreasing every year in Japan, and in the end their last resort will be respecting us and accepting all of us, so this now known as a 'first world country' continues to hold its tittle.

[Shelley]

Can anyone tell me if there's really ever any justification in* rounding people up of a certain nationality, even if in another country and putting them on restrictions when they have done no wrong?

If there were 15 incidences committed by Chinese nationals over a period of a week.. would anybody, Chinese government or Japanese government be justified in restricting every other law abiding Chinese national in Japan? Even in restricting them from engaging in commerce out on the local economy or visiting their family? Or how about restricting the Japanese spouses of those Chinese nationals?

*I think this is what through you off Muku

Nothing will happen to other criminal foreigners, not as a whole....

[Muku]

I have not inherited the anger of my ancestors, it would be ironic if I did, because I'm a quarter Japanese and European born in South America, so I couldn't possibly hold hatred against any country, I'm not old enough to have memories of WWII, but I do have many years of life experience under my belt, I'm a mother of two kids, living in Tokyo, a city where by now should be more flexible concerning foreigners here, instead I see my 10 year old sad when he comes home back from school telling me that he can't play with his best friend after schoool because his family do not allow the kid to play with foreigner kids, now after being here for 17 years, working and paying taxes as any Japanese citizen equally, we can not be treated like equal human beings, even having a Japanese heritage, sure let's not generalize a nation, but I speak the language I see the protests held here against foreigners and I've witnessed many times foreigners being treated like animals, if you ask me, then why I'm still here, I'll tell you, because even though I'm aware of how most Japanese people do not like foreigners, there are good sides of Japan that I do not take for granted, after so many years here one learns to 'read' the Japanese society and believe me it's not beautiful as you've seen in books back home, if someone is still stuck with the idea of WWII in their heads it's the Japanese not me.
All this protests the Japanese are doing against the military is an over reaction, do you read the Japanese news? do you follow the Japanese news on TV?
How many crimes would you say the Japanese citizens and other foreigners commit in Japan comparing to the military?
They let other foreigners who raped and murdered children go home unscathed without putting any effort into bringing them back to be punished, orto be punished in their own country and that happens because it's not as important for them as blaming a few military criminals and try to get every single of them out of the country, all because the presence of the military here still reminds them of the war and it always will.
I will reply to this tomorrow, however until then please use the edit button and put some of what you wrote here into paragraph format instead of http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20021223_05_mistake.gif It would make things so much easier to read here. Thank you very much:D

[Shelley]

I will reply to this tomorrow, however until then please use the edit button and put some of what you wrote here into paragraph format instead of http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20021223_05_mistake.gif It would make things so much easier to read here. Thank you very much:D

Sure, no problem..
I'm on my second glass of red wine here..

So I can't even bother using the spell checker, besides pardon my English it's not my first language, but I do try my best to put into words my thoughts.