"Liberty policy will remain in effect this week"

[bravo5840]

Found this in another forum:

"From tonight's meeting with Gen Zilmer, the current restricted liberty policy will remain in effect this week and is officially still considered “until further notice”. LtGen Zilmer deeply appreciates our support on this. Our positive response and period of reflection has been helpful to our cause of supporting a healthy military relationship with our Japanese hosts. Let's keep our people on track and push the positive things such as the many healthy recreational activities available on our various installations. "

"The same exception policies are in effect. People shall continue to pay bills, walk their dogs, etc.... If you have a prepaid/registered event, plan on doing it - the intent is NOT for our people to lose money. Still no liberty dining, drinking and shopping out in town.
We all know that this is painful to a degree and even more so for those living out in town, but let's keep our focus on maintaining the strategic alliance that we talked to so much last week and carry on until the transition from this restricted liberty policy. I’ll provide more info as it continues to develop. Ask your chain of command if you have questions/issues."

[slickmetal]

yeah rumors flying around it will last till after this upcoming payday.

curious, what forum is that excerpt from?

[DougP]

Rock Down 2008:w00t:

[slickmetal]

Rock Down 2008:w00t:

Sponsored by: AAFES, DECA, USAF Clubs and MCCS !!!

should have that added to those Tshirts in the other thread.

[bravo5840]

yeah rumors flying around it will last till after this upcoming payday.

curious, what forum is that excerpt from?

http://www.zeroyon.com/forums/

[dsbmississippi]

This is crap...it needs to end. Our rights are being removed one by one. We aren't animals...a small percent F it up for everyone. Maybe we should leave and see what happens then.
I'm sure we'd be back with the quickness.
We should all go "TDY" to guam or to the states for a month or so, i'd like to see how that plays out.

[atb35]

Damn, I go away for a week and come back to being locked on base....Niiice.

This is retarded though. The majority of the problems result from people being stupid and drinking. Make harsher punishments and restrict drinking...hell stop drinking all together.

[P_chan]

This is crap...it needs to end. Our rights are being removed one by one. We aren't animals...a small percent F it up for everyone. Maybe we should leave and see what happens then.
I'm sure we'd be back with the quickness.
We should all go "TDY" to guam or to the states for a month or so, i'd like to see how that plays out.

Welcome to the military!

[DougP]

Welcome to the military!


Shit, welcome to SOFA. It appears as though its more than just an agreement between two countries. Its a condition where anyone covered under it is stripped of their basic humans rights and is used to threaten people into compliance. This life of bullshit is not just for the military anymore.:D

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

And none of these rules, regulations, and conditions are secret. If you can't accept and refuse to abide by any of them, why would you sign up and agree to them?

[macker]

Taken from another forum.....
A very good start for a letter.....

So let me know what you think of my letter so far:

You mentioned that if we did not agree with the lockdown we should look for employment elsewhere within the company. I have found several positions that I would be my second choice to staying in Okinawa. I love living here and this place feels like home, but I cannot subject my family to these ill-conceived rules. If I had my choice I would stay on Okinawa far into the conceivable future, but frankly, the ideal of being under house arrest and restriction for the near future overwhelms any desire stay here. I want to fulfill all of my obligations to XXCOMPANYXX, but my family comes first. If there are no repercussions to the government for demanding that we follow these rules then I cannot imagine where or when these rules will stop. I have no problem following the government’s rules if our time restricted was billable, but that is not the case. We have been told to ‘deal’ with our suffering. It seems that the company has no interest in protecting our rights. If SOFA is a benefit that can be dangled in front of our eyes every time the military wants us to do something what is stopping us from having required physical fitness standards or wearing uniforms? It seems there is no ‘line in the sand’ to keep the local command in check regardless of what XXCOMPANYXX’s contract with the military states. I took this position under the assumption that I must follow the laws of Japan and Okinawa as well as XXCOMPANYXX's and the military’s policies while at work. The line between work and the rest of my life has become so blurred that I can no longer see straight.

[DougP]

And none of these rules, regulations, and conditions are secret. If you can't accept and refuse to abide by any of them, why would you sign up and agree to them?

What rules are you referring to? No body has been able to produce anything from the existing SOFA that indicates what is currently happening part of any rules that were already in place. And to add to that what I signed on for and what was on the contract that I signed did not say anything about being confined to my place of residence. I have still yet to see anything in writing that states that what is going on right now is NOT in violation of my contract.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

You stated you have SOFA status (somewhere on JU, IIRC). Have you read through the entire agreement? If such status is granted or maintained by your contract, then whatever is in SOFA applies to you.

[DougP]

You stated you have SOFA status (somewhere on JU, IIRC). Have you read through the entire agreement? If such status is granted or maintained by your contract, then whatever is in SOFA applies to you.

And as I asked in the other thread. Can you show me where it states that I can be ordered to be confined to my place of residence and cannot shop off post in the SOFA? I did not read or agree to anything like that when I signed my contract. I do know however that when being on orders(any orders) to be at a particular place at a prescribed time and it is not in the original contract, then we as contractors are supposed to be payed for that time. That has also not happened yet.

[macker]

what eelcurb is alluding to is the portion that states you will follow the orders of those in charge of okinawa (something like that),

Actually, Maybe it's this "That I will govern my movement and actions in accordance with instructions of the <Branch of service> and the Commanding officer in the activity to which I am attached or in which I am employed".... etc.


So it is there.....

However, there is a point where orders become "UNLAWFUL", and the UCMJ makes that quite clear.

There is a case for a hot-shot lawyer ya know.....

[DougP]

what eelcurb is alluding to is the portion that states you will follow the orders of those in charge of okinawa (something like that),

Actually, Maybe it's this "That I will govern my movement and actions in accordance with instructions of the <Branch of service> and the Commanding officer in the activity to which I am attached or in which I am employed".... etc.


So it is there.....

However, there is a point where orders become "UNLAWFUL", and the UCMJ makes that quite clear.

There is a case for a hot-shot lawyer ya know.....

And that's already in the works:thumbup1: These "orders" still have to be constitutional and lawful in order for civilians to follow them. Especially in a non war zone like Okinawa. I guess martial law can be turned on at the flick of a switch.

[DougP]

what eelcurb is alluding to is the portion that states you will follow the orders of those in charge of okinawa (something like that),

Actually, Maybe it's this "That I will govern my movement and actions in accordance with instructions of the <Branch of service> and the Commanding officer in the activity to which I am attached or in which I am employed".... etc.



Also that is way to broad of a statement. "in the activity to which I am employed" there you have it. So while I am working and on the job or if it is a job related activity I have to obey/follow the instructions of the commanding officer. At least that's how I would perceive it.

But of course to them it means "blah blah your ass is mine":D:D

As I said before "people" are already looking into this legally. The military has tried this stunt before and failed for similar reasons.

[atb35]

Bottom line is....if you are sponsored by one of the services, you will obide by their rules, regardless if they are civilian lawful or not. Nobody is forcing you to remain employed by the military....go back to the states whenever you want and be completely free.

[macker]

I love it when people say "bottom line is..."....

Such a bullying tactic.....

I will go back, But the difference in my salary from being here and back there for the remainder of my contract can be paid to me.....Really I don't mind at all....

:D

[atb35]

Not trying to be bullying, and you would not get your contracted money. If you arent willing to live with the terms of your contract, you lose it...unless you got some awesome contract that states you can leave at will...

[Jack Baretz]

And that's already in the works:thumbup1: These "orders" still have to be constitutional and lawful in order for civilians to follow them. Especially in a non war zone like Okinawa. I guess martial law can be turned on at the flick of a switch.

:thumbdown: How would someone in uniform like it if they were dishonorably discharged from service without a Captain's Mast or Court Martial? You all have UCMJ, so if you get busted out in town this week all that will happen is an NJP and a slap in the wrist. Hell, they might even restrict you to base.
Civilians on the other hand, will get screwed without any constitutional rights. I actually wish I were still in uniform at the moment.

The Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution says:

“ No person shall be ... deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law .... ”

The Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution says:

“ No State shall deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law ....

[RODSCALIP5]

You guys want some cheese with that whine? At least you guys have the option of "quitting" if you dont like it. Obviously you need the job or else you would have left already.

[macker]

Ahhhh....

The old contractor vs. Military debate.......

At least this.... At least That.....

At the end of the day, I have NEVER met any military member who DIDN'T WANT to be a contractor when they got out.....

I was one of them!!

[DougP]

Bottom line is....if you are sponsored by one of the services, you will obide by their rules, regardless if they are civilian lawful or not. Nobody is forcing you to remain employed by the military....go back to the states whenever you want and be completely free.

Sounds like the usual rhetoric to me. The infamous "Love it or leave it" response. Did you just make that rule up or are you regurgitating what your supervisors have told throughout the years:rolleyes:

[DougP]

Not trying to be bullying, and you would not get your contracted money. If you arent willing to live with the terms of your contract, you lose it...unless you got some awesome contract that states you can leave at will...

And once again I am living within the terms of MY contract. This house arrest is not within those terms.:thumbdown:

[RODSCALIP5]

Ahhhh....

The old contractor vs. Military debate.......

At least this.... At least That.....

At the end of the day, I have NEVER met any military member who DIDN'T WANT to be a contractor when they got out.....

I was one of them!!

That is my plan when I get out :D

[DougP]

You guys want some cheese with that whine? At least you guys have the option of "quitting" if you dont like it. Obviously you need the job or else you would have left already.

We also have the ability, right and responsibility to speak out against violations of our rights. We should not have to quit our jobs in order to pursue those rights.

[RODSCALIP5]

We also have the ability, right and responsibility to speak out against violations of our right. We should not have to quit our jobs in order to pursue those rights.

Your rights are not being violated when Nation Interest is at stake.

Believe it or not there is reason for the "Lockdown" other than punishment ie. threats from Okinawan Gangs.

BTW, I am not against you, if I could bitch and complain I would. I am out of Trash Bags and need to pay bills :D

[DougP]

Your rights are not being violated when Nation Interest is at stake.

Believe it or not there is reason for the "Lockdown" other than punishment ie. threats from Okinawan Gangs.

BTW, I am not against you, if I could bitch and complain I would. I am out of Trash Bags and need to pay bills :D

Yeah I hear the reasons, nation's interests, safety.. Do I buy into all of it? Not really. :D

[Tony Stacks]

:thumbdown: How would someone in uniform like it if they were dishonorably discharged from service without a Captain's Mast or Court Martial? You all have UCMJ, so if you get busted out in town this week all that will happen is an NJP and a slap in the wrist. Hell, they might even restrict you to base.
Civilians on the other hand, will get screwed without any constitutional rights. I actually wish I were still in uniform at the moment.

The Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution says:

“ No person shall be ... deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law .... ”

The Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution says:

“ No State shall deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law ....


Are you crazy? You guys have a lot more rights than military members. You can quit your job if you don't like it. A military guy can't. You can complain. Military guy can't. There are a number of things that a military guy can get in trouble for that a civilian won't. So what are you talking about?

[Jack Baretz]

Yeah I hear the reasons, nation's interests, safety.. Do I buy into all of it? Not really. :D

Any of those reasons would be money in the bank for us. "Period of Reflection" is just a cheap way to get us to enforce the Embargo. Last time this came up, USFJ SJA stated the following:

The result, he said, is simple: to protect forces, maintain readiness and preserve bilateral relationships, commanders can create reasonable rules that apply to everyone assigned to their command.

“It has to be a narrowly drawn set of prohibitions,” he said. “If there is specific conduct that is aggravating the relationships between the two countries” then a commander can restrict that conduct.

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=33677&archive=true

Same thing happened in Korea a few years ago while I was there. We got action by sticking up for our legal rights. LaPorte still owes me money. Gotta love Freedom of Speech.

[Kye77]

How different is this to a parent disciplining their children? Example: You have 5 kids & 1 misbehaves, do you discipline ALL of them? If you had their friends over(another person's kids), should you discipline them too? I just feel this disciplinary action by the military higher ups are, though necessary, unfair.

I know this is not a very good example since we are talking about politics here but many of us are not politically inclined. Many of us dependents who are here are subjected to isolation because we are away from our extended family or what we are used to. Now we are even more isolated. Time is precious & now we are going to be spending that time at home or on bases.

If this lockdown is an ongoing issue, how many of you would have wanted to PCS here? Do people even have a choice? I know I would have second thoughts accompanying my husband here.

Even if the lockdown drags on, there is still no guarantee that something will not happen. For example, a drug trafficker. He knows that if he smuggles drugs into a certain country, it would be the death penalty. Why does he still do it? Human beings do things that are unexpected & at times, they just do not care about the consequences. These people are the minority & they are everywhere, in ALL countries.

What can the military higher ups do for total security save lock the troops up? There are NO guarantees otherwise.

[KumaNoPooh]

For our protection yeah right. If the were that concerned, they would not premit us to live off base and move us all inside.

[slickmetal]

And once again I am living within the terms of MY contract. This house arrest is not within those terms.:thumbdown:

dang how many times you going to get house arrest twisted with "restricted to"
;)

[Burado]

Just wait until they release the caged lions...... do you anticipate many problems?

[DougP]

Oh heck yes, Pandora's box will be opened when that day finally comes.

[Trail]

This is crap...it needs to end. Our rights are being removed one by one. We aren't animals...a small percent F it up for everyone. Maybe we should leave and see what happens then.
I'm sure we'd be back with the quickness.
We should all go "TDY" to guam or to the states for a month or so, i'd like to see how that plays out.

You can leave if you want to, just go to Starbucks. ;) Maybe you'll get a ride in a heli.

Personally, I want to stay here so I have no other option than to bend over and think of something else while it's getting "put to me.":crying:

[KumaNoPooh]

I hears LtGen Zilmer does that he likes it. You know swing both ways

[Trail]

I hears LtGen Zilmer does that he likes it. You know swing both ways

lol he likes fudge and marshmallow cream :barf:

[KumaNoPooh]

to go with his latte

[Trail]

2 generals one cup?!?

[KumaNoPooh]

yeah i think thats it we need to somehow inpose his face on that video

[Rollin_J's]

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