Locals on Bases

[Oki Cajun]

Ok, am I the only one who is bothered by whole Japanese families on base at the gyms, the PX's etc ? I don't mean Japanese in general, but those Japanese who are non-SOFA and non-ID cards. I feel if this is a period of reflection, then it needs to be one for everybody. As it is, they get the best of both worlds; they can bitch about us and call us all rapists, and our gov't kowtows to this, and now we can't leave. However, they are allowed to come on our bases as they please. Also, why is it there are little to no military spouses working at the PX's etc ? I don't understand why we continue to dump all the jobs on the locals who are ungrateful to us for being here in the first place.

[Ammoyankee]

Most of the Japanese you see roaming freely are either contractors or base employees who do have base passes that are valid for entry during certain hours. I am sure the number of these people that are b!tching and complaining about the bases is minute and as long as they still perform adequately at work, I do not see an issue for them being on base. "We" don't continue to dump jobs on local nationals, there are certain numbers of local hire that are determined by agreement.

[hankypanky]

Ok, am I the only one who is bothered by whole Japanese families on base at the gyms, the PX's etc ? I don't mean Japanese in general, but those Japanese who are non-SOFA and non-ID cards. I feel if this is a period of reflection, then it needs to be one for everybody. As it is, they get the best of both worlds; they can bitch about us and call us all rapists, and our gov't kowtows to this, and now we can't leave. However, they are allowed to come on our bases as they please. Also, why is it there are little to no military spouses working at the PX's etc ? I don't understand why we continue to dump all the jobs on the locals who are ungrateful to us for being here in the first place.

so "those" that offend you so much that you see at the px and gym are the ones bitching? so we just put all of a race in one bucket now. I guess one kkk guy is the example of all white people eh? and all black people are on food stamps too!

man, you need to get out of the sticks and see what is and what ain't. plus, the japanese pay the salaries of "those" working on base. If we had americans doing it, we would be paying twice of what the japanese pay "those" people.

By the way, that's why there are so many mexicans working is the states because americans are too lazy to work hard for a buck. go figure.

[Tempestuous]

I think its interesting the reference to the 'locals' working at PX and NOT spouses......
So what- no one can have a spouse that isn't white?
There aren't any Filipino spouses? No Japanese spouses? No Okinawan spouses?
:rolleyes:

[NaNaKo]

why is it there are little to no military spouses working at the PX's etc ? I don't understand why we continue to dump all the jobs on the locals who are ungrateful to us for being here in the first place.

Who's going to work at the Burger King/Pizza Hut/Subway? The military spouses?

Who's going to tend and water the greens at the golf courses under the hot sun in the middle of summer? The military spouses?

[Crazysix]

OH DAmn did somebody scream "DOGPILE"!!!!!

[TheLastDon]

Too late he logged off, that stealth flame war starter.

[Black Orchid]

hate to say it but i felt that way when i first came here too like why is it so hard for me to get a job here and it took me a year to get a job im not really keen about but i gotta take it because i need the money...

but thats the way it is and i gotta live with it

[dk]

hate to say it but i felt that way when i first came here too like why is it so hard for me to get a job here and it took me a year to get a job im not really keen about but i gotta take it because i need the money...

but thats the way it is and i gotta live with it
This sort of thing (hard to find a decent job) seems quite common on Okinawa.

Sad thing is when business owners and management know it and act accordingly.

[gunny8511]

"We" don't continue to dump jobs on local nationals, there are certain numbers of local hire that are determined by agreement.

Therein lies one of the problems. When the hiring criteria devolves into quotas, vice qualifications, people are going to be eternally pissed off, and rightfully so. As for the person that asked if spouses would water the golf courses and such, they just need to get a grip; if it pays money, there's spouses willing to take the job. The "lazy American" stamp doesn't fit very well in the military. There are, of course, exceptions, but far fewer than in the civilian realm. Odd that she/he/it claims to be allergic to work.

[Daniela]

Hi, new here, lurking for a while now;
funny, I have jobs available, but the wives don't want to work on weekends. They want to work when it's convenient for them. I pay more than the PX does and it's still hard to find someone who wants to work those hours.
Okay, you don't know me; I am in marketing working in the PX's. The job/jobs are a breeze compared to some of the crap I used to do. Still, no luck.
Anybody likes to grill? I have a job for that too!!!
Just grill some of your best food and send it over...since I can't flippin' leave my house and if it's good you're hired!

Daniela

[Black Orchid]

Hi, new here, lurking for a while now;
funny, I have jobs available, but the wives don't want to work on weekends. They want to work when it's convenient for them. I pay more than the PX does and it's still hard to find someone who wants to work those hours.
Okay, you don't know me; I am in marketing working in the PX's. The job/jobs are a breeze compared to some of the crap I used to do. Still, no luck.
Anybody likes to grill? I have a job for that too!!!
Just grill some of your best food and send it over...since I can't flippin' leave my house and if it's good you're hired!

Daniela


i dont mind working on the weekends cause im not doing anything.. i took the job i was offered cause every other job i applied for i didnt get. i really not looking forward to it but i got to because i cant be picky

[IndyGal]

Ok, am I the only one who is bothered by whole Japanese families on base at the gyms, the PX's etc ? I don't mean Japanese in general, but those Japanese who are non-SOFA and non-ID cards. I feel if this is a period of reflection, then it needs to be one for everybody. As it is, they get the best of both worlds; they can bitch about us and call us all rapists, and our gov't kowtows to this, and now we can't leave.

Well I don't believe the Okinawans that are on base are our protesters. They are just like us (providing we could go off base) that just want to enjoy what all the communities have to offer and not feeling that all are the bad guy.

Also, why is it there are little to no military spouses working at the PX's etc ? I don't understand why we continue to dump all the jobs on the locals who are ungrateful to us for being here in the first place.

As stated before there is a quota of Okinawans slotted for on base employment. For spouses or really anyone else it is a matter of who ya know for the most part.

You couldn't pay me enough to work at the PX LOL! :eek:

[Black Orchid]

it really shouldnt be about who you know all the time that kinda annoys me too

[IndyGal]

By the way, that's why there are so many mexicans working is the states because americans are too lazy to work hard for a buck. go figure.

Yes there are lazy Americans, but a lot of businesses get off dirt cheap hiring Mexicans and giving them low wages.

[IndyGal]

it really shouldnt be about who you know all the time that kinda annoys me too

True, annoys me as well. Just a fact of life here though I have found.

[Daniela]

Well,
if you work for me you don't work for the PX. Big difference... and.....since I pay more AND my hours are flexible I DO expect enthusiasm.
oh...and edible food.
Daniela

[P_chan]

The "lazy American" stamp doesn't fit very well in the military.

Wow your serious with this one aren't you? I think I've seen more lazy people in the military then once I was working full time back home at a casino.

[Muku]

I just would love to know how in the hell the OP can tell the difference between an authorized patron at the PX/BX and a visitor. without actually going up to them and asking them to show some type of ID.

Dude must have x-ray vision.:rolleyes:

[dk]

funny, I have jobs available, but the wives don't want to work on weekends.
Got any jobs for non-women (well, you mentioned wives, is only reason I make mention) with an IT/Marketing background and pretty decent education by chance?...

[Oki Cajun]

Thats not what I said at all. I would have to look up the official numbers, but I don't believe the locals working in the PX and around base are spouses period. It has nothing to do with people's wives or husbands being solely white. I am fully aware people marry other races.

[watzitoou]

So you have a problem if I invite/sponsor my Okinawan friends on base?

[Oki Cajun]

To the "dude" who said i must have "x-ray vision"....Thanks

[Oki Cajun]

[QUOTE=Oki Cajun;68319] So you have a problem if I invite/sponsor my Okinawan friends on base?

No, not at all. I'm in the gym, I'm in the sports shop at Kadena, in the PX, and I'm thinking how we are all locked down to reflect..So why would Oki locals be able to come as they please ?

[Muku]

Oki Cajun wrote....No, not at all. I'm in the gym, I'm in the sports shop at Kadena, in the PX, and I'm thinking how we are all locked down to reflect..So why would Oki locals be able to come as they please ?

Question for you...How do you know they are locals? I am a "local" btw and there is no way in hell you would confuse me as being Japanese.

Local's work there, so are you suggesting they stop coming to work because you are locked down?

[trianglechoke]

In the gym i usually assume the ones who are height-challenged, speaking japanese, and doing something foolish (like trying to leg press 1000 lbs with a two inch range of motion) are locals. but maybe that's just terrible stereotyping on my part. :thumbup1:

[QUOTE=Oki Cajun;68322]
Question for you...How do you know they are locals? I am a "local" btw and there is no way in hell you would confuse me as being Japanese.

Local's work there, so are you suggesting they stop coming to work because you are locked down?

[Muku]

[QUOTE=trianglechoke;68340]In the gym i usually assume the ones who are height-challenged, speaking japanese, and doing something foolish (like trying to leg press 1000 lbs with a two inch range of motion) are locals. but maybe that's just terrible stereotyping on my part. :thumbup1:




Do you get the point though? Just because they are Japanese does not necessarily mean that they do not have the same right to be there as you do.

[Oki Cajun]

[QUOTE=Oki Cajun;68322]
Question for you...How do you know they are locals? I am a "local" btw and there is no way in hell you would confuse me as being Japanese.

Local's work there, so are you suggesting they stop coming to work because you are locked down?

Yeah I am. I know there aren't an abundance of jobs here, and part of the agreement to be here is to give jobs to the local population. I just feel like if more people like you want to work on our bases, then why aren't you all making more of a stand against those who are ranting and raving for us to leave ? Everyone says we have Okinawans on our side, but where are they ? I notice on TV everyone that ever has anything positive to say about the U.S. does so anonymously. And you know what ? Maybe the people I saw weren't local Okinawans. They were speaking Japanese, but didn't look Japanese to me though. Oh and before you go attacking me saying " how would I know". I've lived in JAPAN not Jokinawa for 9 years and know the difference.

[Oki Cajun]

[QUOTE]




Do you get the point though? Just because they are Japanese does not necessarily mean that they do not have the same right to be there as you do.

They don't have the right to be in there ! This is more the fault of those administering the lockdown than the people in the gym, but its complete bullsh*t that non SOFA people can go in the gym or anywhere else on base when SOFA people can't leave. They want it both ways, and thats what pisses me off. If you want Americans out of your country so bad, why would you go to a base where you are sure to see more of them than if you stay home ?

[badstreetusa]

[QUOTE=Muku;68327]

Yeah I am. I know there aren't an abundance of jobs here, and part of the agreement to be here is to give jobs to the local population. I just feel like if more people like you want to work on our bases, then why aren't you all making more of a stand against those who are ranting and raving for us to leave ? Everyone says we have Okinawans on our side, but where are they ? I notice on TV everyone that ever has anything positive to say about the U.S. does so anonymously. And you know what ? Maybe the people I saw weren't local Okinawans. They were speaking Japanese, but didn't look Japanese to me though. Oh and before you go attacking me saying " how would I know". I've lived in JAPAN not Jokinawa for 9 years and know the difference.

Most of the MLCs I've talked to on-base have been supportive of the military I'm around. Highly doubt it's a front as I've known the Okinawans for years. Some of the MLCs didn't even know we were locked down. I don't agree with barring the locals from base during the lockdown. The military caused the problem that got the lockdown started not the Okinawans.

[Oki Cajun]

Dude, I LOVE the Freebirds !!! I met Michael P.S. Hayes in Pensacola, FL in 1993...he was playing video poker in rumrunners.

[Muku]

They don't have the right to be in there ! This is more the fault of those administering the lockdown than the people in the gym, but its complete bullsh*t that non SOFA people can go in the gym or anywhere else on base when SOFA people can't leave. They want it both ways, and thats what pisses me off. If you want Americans out of your country so bad, why would you go to a base where you are sure to see more of them than if you stay home ?
You dont get it....how about assuming that those Japanese people are under SOFA status. They have just as much of a right to be there as you, and your comments to the contrary are borderline racist against Japanese.

You assume that because they are Japanese they have no right to be there. Well what about Hispanic people on bases in the US, in California, I suppose you think they all are illegal immigrants as well right?

I just feel like if more people like you want to work on our bases, then why aren't you all making more of a stand against those who are ranting and raving for us to leave ?
Your bases? When did they suddenly become your bases? You are making another assumption here, particularly in reagards to who you are talking to....as in me.

[trianglechoke]

I think you're responding to the wrong person.

But, like the original poster, I think they ought to stay away when not actually working. We Americans are violent, unpredictable, erratic, peace-hating overfed drunken rape-machines. Worse, some of us are black! Alack!

Better for locals to just keep their distance on the safe side of the fence...

[QUOTE]




Do you get the point though? Just because they are Japanese does not necessarily mean that they do not have the same right to be there as you do.

[Muku]

[QUOTE=Oki Cajun;68349]

Most of the MLCs I've talked to on-base have been supportive of the military I'm around. Highly doubt it's a front as I've known the Okinawans for years. Some of the MLCs didn't even know we were locked down. I don't agree with barring the locals from base during the lockdown. The military caused the problem that got the lockdown started not the Okinawans.

Please do me a favor and correct the quote, I didnt write what you are quoting:D

[Muku]

Hey people the quoting function here is screwed up for some reason.....please keep that in mind when responding, I just realized that I misquoted someone else, and the same happened to me.

There are going to be some serious misunderstandings here.

Cheers

[dk]

Hey people the quoting function here is screwed up for some reason.....please keep that in mind when responding, I just realized that I misquoted someone else, and the same happened to me.

There are going to be some serious misunderstandings here.

Cheers
Works for me.

[Oki Cajun]

[QUOTE=Oki Cajun;68354]
You dont get it....how about assuming that those Japanese people are under SOFA status. They have just as much of a right to be there as you, and your comments to the contrary are borderline racist against Japanese.

You assume that because they are Japanese they have no right to be there. Well what about Hispanic people on bases in the US, in California, I suppose you think they all are illegal immigrants as well right?


Your bases? When did they suddenly become your bases? You are making another assumption here, particularly in reagards to who you are talking to....as in me.

No, I do get it. I'm not racist against Japanese, i LOVE Japanese, its the fickle Okinawans I have a problem with. It's Kadena Air Force Base, not Kadena Okinawa Air Force Base. When Okinawans are in the planes flying, or on the flightline, I'll call it Kadena Okinawa Air Force Base.

The illegal immigration issue is a different animal entirely. If you must know, I don't mind them, because they are hard workers, have impeccable customer service, but my problem is that they don't have to go through the same rigerous process to get a green card my wife (who's Japanese by the way) does. And when is the last time you saw an entire Japanese family that was SOFA sponsored ? Oh, maybe you see that all the time on Okinawa, I dunno. SOFA takes the place of a visa. If they are Japanese, a whole family, with no ties to the military, why would they need SOFA ? Its THEIR COUNTRY !

[TheLastDon]

Why do they need a green card to work on base.

What land is the base built on?

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

If the base(s) is/are considered American soil/territory, then I could understand (like an embassy). Is that the case? Do Okinawans need a green card to work on base?

[Muku]

No, I do get it. I'm not racist against Japanese, i LOVE Japanese, its the fickle Okinawans I have a problem with. It's Kadena Air Force Base, not Kadena Okinawa Air Force Base. When Okinawans are in the planes flying, or on the flightline, I'll call it Kadena Okinawa Air Force Base.


Clearing throat here.....Okinawan's are Japanese. Understand that first off, then you might understand your misunderstanding of the situation.

The illegal immigration issue is a different animal entirely. If you must know, I don't mind them, because they are hard workers, have impeccable customer service, but my problem is that they don't have to go through the same rigerous process to get a green card my wife (who's Japanese by the way) does. And when is the last time you saw an entire Japanese family that was SOFA sponsored ? Oh, maybe you see that all the time on Okinawa, I dunno. SOFA takes the place of a visa. If they are Japanese, a whole family, with no ties to the military, why would they need SOFA ? Its THEIR COUNTRY !
You miss the point, immigration has nothing to do with the comment I made.

Here is the point, you judge people based on their looks, without knowing their status or nationality.

Oh one other thing you missed big time.

When I said I was a local what nationality are you assuming that I am?

[badstreetusa]

Dude, I LOVE the Freebirds !!! I met Michael P.S. Hayes in Pensacola, FL in 1993...he was playing video poker in rumrunners.

I don't remember meeting you, I met so many people over the course of my career. I've been living here for some time after I retired, surprised you didn't know that.

[Oki Cajun]

Why do they need a green card to work on base.

What land is the base built on?

Not a green card, but a military i.d. card. I really don't have a problem with locals working on base. I could care less. There are just so many that I don't understand why there aren't more speaking out in our defense against those who are constantly saying how bad we are. They work among us and know how we are, so why isn't this surfacing anywhere ? Or it could be like on cops; Every time they interview someone, it's the dumbest most ignorant person they could find. In this case, the entire Okinawan population of Gate 2 street.

[badstreetusa]

No, I do get it. I'm not racist against Japanese, i LOVE Japanese, its the fickle Okinawans I have a problem with. It's Kadena Air Force Base, not Kadena Okinawa Air Force Base. When Okinawans are in the planes flying, or on the flightline, I'll call it Kadena Okinawa Air Force Base.

The illegal immigration issue is a different animal entirely. If you must know, I don't mind them, because they are hard workers, have impeccable customer service, but my problem is that they don't have to go through the same rigerous process to get a green card my wife (who's Japanese by the way) does. And when is the last time you saw an entire Japanese family that was SOFA sponsored ? Oh, maybe you see that all the time on Okinawa, I dunno. SOFA takes the place of a visa. If they are Japanese, a whole family, with no ties to the military, why would they need SOFA ? Its THEIR COUNTRY !

It's Kadena Air Base....not Kadena Air Force Base...

[badstreetusa]

Not a green card, but a military i.d. card. I really don't have a problem with locals working on base. I could care less. There are just so many that I don't understand why there aren't more speaking out in our defense against those who are constantly saying how bad we are. They work among us and know how we are, so why isn't this surfacing anywhere ? Or it could be like on cops; Every time they interview someone, it's the dumbest most ignorant person they could find. In this case, the entire Okinawan population of Gate 2 street.

Most of the "Okinawan Population of Gate 2 Street" aren't even native Okinawans...yes some of the Indians were born here...have you been out gate 2 lately?

[Muku]

Not a green card, but a military i.d. card. I really don't have a problem with locals working on base. I could care less. There are just so many that I don't understand why there aren't more speaking out in our defense against those who are constantly saying how bad we are. They work among us and know how we are, so why isn't this surfacing anywhere ? Or it could be like on cops; Every time they interview someone, it's the dumbest most ignorant person they could find. In this case, the entire Okinawan population of Gate 2 street.


It's because of the culture of the people, if you get past the 1% or so protesting you might find yourself to be surprised at the non-vocal 99% percent that are actually with the bases.

Ok the percentages are an assumption on my part, however please understand that there are more here with the bases than against them. It's a political issue more than anything else.

[Oki Cajun]

Clearing throat here.....Okinawan's are Japanese. Understand that first off, then you might understand your misunderstanding of the situation.


You miss the point, immigration has nothing to do with the comment I made.

Here is the point, you judge people based on their looks, without knowing their status or nationality.

Oh one other thing you missed big time.

When I said I was a local what nationality are you assuming that I am?

Okinawans are their own race and society. They are the Japanese "Quebecois". They are Japanese when it suits them, otherwise they are their own little planet, and have expressed a desire to one day be independent again. I hope they do it, I really do. There is almost nothing in common culture wise with the mainland. I'm basing that on 10 yrs of living on the mainland. Here there is much more Chinese influence, and distinctly Ryukyuan, not like the traditional Japanese culture you see in the Kanto area.
Long story short, they are taken against their will by Japan in the late 1800's, 1876 I believe, and are assimilated as a prefecture of the newly created Meiji Japan. WW2 happens, they have the massive battles here and they feel like Tokyo threw them under the bus. They've had little to no say about what bases are here, so in effect they are pushed around by Tokyo, and to make matters worse they have the big gorilla in the corner (the U.S.) who has consistently had lapses in discipline.

I don't care what nationality you are, as I'm not making this a "clearing throat", personal attack on you. I know Japanese, I know what they were saying, they were Japanese. Didn't base it all on their looks. Their accent was Okinawan, not anything I heard on the mainland.

[Oki Cajun]

It's Kadena Air Base....not Kadena Air Force Base...

The real Michael Hayes would have called it Badstreet Air Base, surprised you didn't know that.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

And the FLQ are whom?

[Oki Cajun]

Most of the "Okinawan Population of Gate 2 Street" aren't even native Okinawans...yes some of the Indians were born here...have you been out gate 2 lately?

I try not to, so no I haven't been there in a while. I know the hip hop clothes stores are owned by indians, but the other side of the road looks all Okinawan to me. And down there by Koza Music Town it looks all Okinawan, so really, in all, there are like 2 or 3 shops with Indians ? Maybe you haven't been out there much either.

[badstreetusa]

I try not to, so no I haven't been there in a while. I know the hip hop clothes stores are owned by indians, but the other side of the road looks all Okinawan to me. And down there by Koza Music Town it looks all Okinawan, so really, in all, there are like 2 or 3 shops with Indians ? Maybe you haven't been out there much either.

Only 2 or 3 shops owned by Indians? Are you sure you're talking about Gate 2street in front of Kadena? Wake up...

[nipponliving]

You are a very prejudice person Cajun. It sounds like you can’t wait to leave this island..guess what? I can’t wait for you to leave either..

[Muku]

Okinawans are their own race and society. They are the Japanese "Quebecois". They are Japanese when it suits them, otherwise they are their own little planet, and have expressed a desire to one day be independent again. I hope they do it, I really do. There is almost nothing in common culture wise with the mainland. I'm basing that on 10 yrs of living on the mainland. Here there is much more Chinese influence, and distinctly Ryukyuan, not like the traditional Japanese culture you see in the Kanto area.
Long story short, they are taken against their will by Japan in the late 1800's, 1876 I believe, and are assimilated as a prefecture of the newly created Meiji Japan. WW2 happens, they have the massive battles here and they feel like Tokyo threw them under the bus. They've had little to no say about what bases are here, so in effect they are pushed around by Tokyo, and to make matters worse they have the big gorilla in the corner (the U.S.) who has consistently had lapses in discipline.

I don't care what nationality you are, as I'm not making this a "clearing throat", personal attack on you. I know Japanese, I know what they were saying, they were Japanese. Didn't base it all on their looks. Their accent was Okinawan, not anything I heard on the mainland.
You have a rather shallow knowledge of the society here if you insist on trying to say that the Okinawan people are not Japanese.

You dont want to get started about a history lesson about Okinawa with me...really it isnt worth it.:D

Not saying they werent Okinawan's, meaning Japanese, but you side step the point. The Japanese that have SOFA status have just as much of a right to be on the bases as you do, that is a fact, like it or not.

Next the bases are not "yours" they are leased to the US for the use of the US Military. The land is owned by the Japanese and they are compensated for it.

Next if you dont want them there, then I hope you will enjoy not having any base services or anything else becasue they, the Japanese that work there, keep the bases working. It sure the hell isnt the US Military that takes care of the upkeep and services thats for damn sure.

Oh one last thing, MY TAXES pay to keep you here, think about that too. I have an indirect vested interest in the bases being here or not.

[badstreetusa]

Okinawans are their own race and society. They are the Japanese "Quebecois". They are Japanese when it suits them, otherwise they are their own little planet, and have expressed a desire to one day be independent again. I hope they do it, I really do. There is almost nothing in common culture wise with the mainland. I'm basing that on 10 yrs of living on the mainland. Here there is much more Chinese influence, and distinctly Ryukyuan, not like the traditional Japanese culture you see in the Kanto area.
Long story short, they are taken against their will by Japan in the late 1800's, 1876 I believe, and are assimilated as a prefecture of the newly created Meiji Japan. WW2 happens, they have the massive battles here and they feel like Tokyo threw them under the bus. They've had little to no say about what bases are here, so in effect they are pushed around by Tokyo, and to make matters worse they have the big gorilla in the corner (the U.S.) who has consistently had lapses in discipline.

I don't care what nationality you are, as I'm not making this a "clearing throat", personal attack on you. I know Japanese, I know what they were saying, they were Japanese. Didn't base it all on their looks. Their accent was Okinawan, not anything I heard on the mainland.

Cajun is right on this one; folks do your history homework!

[Oki Cajun]

Only 2 or 3 shops owned by Indians? Are you sure you're talking about Gate 2street in front of Kadena? Wake up...

Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about..Who cares ? Are we really arguing over who knows Gate 2 street better ? If so, YOU WIN ! Omedeto Gozaimasu !

[TheLastDon]

Cajun is right on this one; folks do your history homework!

Yeah but a lot of the protesters are from the mainland of Japan.

[badstreetusa]

Yeah but a lot of the protesters are from the mainland of Japan.

I agree with you, and haven't mentioned the protesters in any of my posts...

[Oki Cajun]

You have a rather shallow knowledge of the society here if you insist on trying to say that the Okinawan people are not Japanese.

You dont want to get started about a history lesson about Okinawa with me...really it isnt worth it.:D

Not saying they werent Okinawan's, meaning Japanese, but you side step the point. The Japanese that have SOFA status have just as much of a right to be on the bases as you do, that is a fact, like it or not.

Next the bases are not "yours" they are leased to the US for the use of the US Military. The land is owned by the Japanese and they are compensated for it.

Next if you dont want them there, then I hope you will enjoy not having any base services or anything else becasue they, the Japanese that work there, keep the bases working. It sure the hell isnt the US Military that takes care of the upkeep and services thats for damn sure.

Oh one last thing, MY TAXES pay to keep you here, think about that too. I have an indirect vested interest in the bases being here or not.

I challenge you to prove me wrong on any point about Okinawa history. You keep resorting to calling me names like shallow etc to insinuate that I just have no idea what I'm talking about. If I don't, then prove it. You assume just because I'm not from here that I couldn't possibly know what I'm talking about.

Why would Japanese have SOFA status ? They are citizens of Japan. SOFA is the "visa" that Americans affiliated with the military come here with. If they didn't have SOFA, they'd have to have a working visa or something. So no Japanese would ever need a SOFA here in Japan.

If you have such a vested interest, then why don't you get more like you to counter those that seem to have the real voice; those that oppose us.

[TheLastDon]

Japanese citizens who marry someone with Sofa, fall under the Sofa.

[badstreetusa]

[QUOTE=Muku;68403]I challenge you to prove me wrong on any point about Okinawa history.

Name all of the Ryukyu Kingdom kings in succession...

[Oki Cajun]

Name all of the Ryukyu Kingdom kings in succession...

Thats about as useful as naming all the Sacremento Kings in succession.

[Muku]

Cajun is right on this one; folks do your history homework!

Umm I think you need to do a bit more research before assuming that this is true. There is no real valid independence movement here in Okinawa. Anyone who actually thinks so is a serious fringe element.

Next

Long story short, they are taken against their will by Japan in the late 1800's, 1876 I believe, and are assimilated as a prefecture of the newly created Meiji Japan.
You really need to go back further than that, Okinawa was under the influence of Satsuma much further back than that. It was assimilated "officially" in the late 1800's. I am too tired to start posting links right now.

They are Japanese when it suits them,
This is so far out in left field that you arent even in the same ball park. I have no idea where you get this idea from but, believe it or not, is wrong.

[badstreetusa]

I was just trying to have some fun and stump Muku on some Okinawan history...lighten up Cajun!

[Oki Cajun]

You are a very prejudice person Cajun. It sounds like you can’t wait to leave this island..guess what? I can’t wait for you to leave either..

Its always easier to take the cop out and accuse me of being prejudice. Based on the depth of your other posts, I expected nothing less. Maybe I've been too wordy for you. I'll make it simple...I NOT LIKE WHEN PEOPLE THINK ALL AMERICANS RAPIST

[Muku]

I challenge you to prove me wrong on any point about Okinawa history.

Name all of the Ryukyu Kingdom kings in succession...
Knock yourself out guy......I am not 10 years old.

[badstreetusa]

Muku, I was referring to the part that Okinawa was once it's own country under the influence of China...you ever wonder why you don't see many Shisha Dogs in mainland? Chinese influence...for God's sake look at the Okinawans...they're make up is a lot more "mixed" than a lot in mainland...

[Muku]

Its always easier to take the cop out and accuse me of being prejudice. Based on the depth of your other posts, I expected nothing less. Maybe I've been too wordy for you. I'll make it simple...I NOT LIKE WHEN PEOPLE THINK ALL AMERICANS RAPIST


Guess what by writing the way you did here right now you are directly thumbing your nose at the Japanese, it is not a joke, and only reinforces the idea that some AMericans are arrogant and racist about their Japanese guests.:thumbdown:

[badstreetusa]

I know that...just trying to lighten things up...

[Muku]

Muku, I was referring to the part that Okinawa was once it's own country under the influence of China...you ever wonder why you don't see many Shisha Dogs in mainland? Chinese influence...for God's sake look at the Okinawans...they're make up is a lot more "mixed" than a lot in mainland...
Guy I have been here a very long time...I know what you are saying, but I also know that Cajun is misguided in what he thinks about the people here in Okinawa.

[P_chan]

:rolleyes:Yeah! God damn Okinawans with there laid back personalties and Uchinan time! I know for a fact that ALL OF THEM think we're rapist, just like they're all lazy drunks with round faces and fuzzy skin!

As far as the "Japanese once it's convenient" comment:rolleyes:

Seems like some mainland hate for the Uchinanchu.

Muku, I was referring to the part that Okinawa was once it's own country under the influence of China...you ever wonder why you don't see many Shisha Dogs in mainland? Chinese influence...for God's sake look at the Okinawans...they're make up is a lot more "mixed" than a lot in mainland...

Why are you assuming that muku, or anyone else here, doesn't know this? I would imagine that the only people who don't know the difference between Uchinanchu and mainland are the ones who sit in their dorm room, never leave base, and constantly say "I hate this place".

[badstreetusa]

Guy I have been here a very long time...I know what you are saying, but I also know that Cajun is misguided in what he thinks about the people here in Okinawa.

Roger that...I agree with parts of what both of you are saying.

I love the Okinawans and Japanese...no complaints here...the best folks in the world.

The main problem is that most Americans over here don't even give the locals a chance and look down on them. It's embarrassing when I see Americans act like they own the damn island...

[badstreetusa]

I would imagine that the only people who don't know the difference between Uchinanchu and mainland are the ones who sit in their dorm room, never leave base, and constantly say "I hate this place".[/QUOTE]

I agree.

[okisteve]

I think you guys need to sit down in front of some strong drink and get together on this Okinawa culture issue, because you're really not very far apart.

Ethnically they are very different from mainlanders, but they do feel Japanese. At the same time they like their culture and traditions, and I don't think even the present-day mainlanders begrudge them that.

It's much like American southerners, many of whom still think of themselves as different from Yankees, want to keep their own ways, speak a different dialect, but are always first and foremost Americans. And just like the minority of Okinawans who protest here, there are also some southerners with very odd ideas.

[nipponliving]

Cajun: You are a very dangerous person. You are obviously educated and knowledgeable on many subjects but you’re freaking prejudice.

Your rants on all these threads about how much you dislike Okinawa people prove it. You’re a racist. You group all Okinawa people into one category. This includes my wife and our family. I went back and looked at all your posts. It’s scary because you seem like a smart dude but warped!

Some people use their education to learn others use it to dominate. I wish you could leave this isalnd by choice because you need to dude.

BTW: I DON”T LIKE PEOPLE THAT THINK BAD OF EVERY OKINAWA PERSON!

[Muku]

Cajun: You are a very dangerous person. You are obviously educated and knowledgeable on many subjects but you’re freaking prejudice.

Your rants on all these threads about how much you dislike Okinawa people prove it. You’re a racist. You group all Okinawa people into one category. This includes my wife and our family. I went back and looked at all your posts. It’s scary because you seem like a smart dude but warped!

Some people use their education to learn others use it to dominate. I wish you could leave this isalnd by choice because you need to dude.

BTW: I DON”T LIKE PEOPLE THAT THINK BAD OF EVERY OKINAWA PERSON!

NipponLiving.....Thank you for sharing your comments here, this board needs more Japanese posters like you that can articulately voice their opinions and thoughts here.

I for one applaude you for taking the time to reply here, hopfully you can share with all of us here about how you think and feel about these recent incidents.

I for one would be very interested in listening.

Thanks

[nipponliving]

Thank you Muku. I’m sorry if I gave you the impression that I was Japanese …although I have been here most of my life (24 plus years and counting).

I think when I said "my wife and family" you assumed I was Japanese? Sometimes I do feel like I am more than American. Don’t get me wrong, I am proud of being American but if you stay in one place as long as I have you kind of become part of the culture and loose part of your nationality to the country you live in.

Most of my friends are Japanese. My wife is from here and my kids go through the Japanese school system. I hope I can add something to the board as I listen to my friends, neighbors and family. I’m new to the forums (any forums) so please excuse me if I make a few mistakes. I do my best.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Your rants on all these threads about how much you dislike Okinawa people prove it. You’re a racist. You group all Okinawa people into one category.

Please refrain from name-calling. Generalizing or having stereotypes that are not fully accurate does not qualify one as a racist. Do not turn this thread into a flame war. Thank you. -- TP

Do not reply to this post.

[P_chan]

Generalizing or having stereotypes that are not fully accurate does not qualify one as a racist.

Then what does?

[nipponliving]

Sorry..lost my head. I guess it’s OK for people to call other people or groups of people racist when they post but not directly to other people in the forum. Still new to this posting thing…Hey I’m learning.

[hankypanky]

ipponLiving says 'Chu-my-chibi!"

i like that, can i use it!:thumbup1:

[Oki Cajun]

Cajun: You are a very dangerous person. You are obviously educated and knowledgeable on many subjects but you’re freaking prejudice.

Your rants on all these threads about how much you dislike Okinawa people prove it. You’re a racist. You group all Okinawa people into one category. This includes my wife and our family. I went back and looked at all your posts. It’s scary because you seem like a smart dude but warped!

Some people use their education to learn others use it to dominate. I wish you could leave this isalnd by choice because you need to dude.

BTW: I DON”T LIKE PEOPLE THAT THINK BAD OF EVERY OKINAWA PERSON!

Thank you for your compliments. I re-read some of what I wrote, and I can see how they were inflammatory. I apologize if I offended your family, and I mean that. First of all I'm not at all against Okinawans per se because of characteristics beyond their control (race, color etc). That would make me a rac**t.It's the vis a vis, the political two stepping thats going on. Some, like Muku say that 99% of people here want us here. Meanwhile the media is saturated with people bodyslamming Americans every chance they get. I'm new to Okinawa and to me, it seems like we're in a tidal wave of hatred from them, and my first instincts are to be defensive. I don't know how to deal with it. I've never experienced this anywhere else in Japan.

Okinawa is in a unique predicament. Really, it's been a long time since they've had a complete say on what goes on here, that I can see how a chip on their shoulder would develop. In many ways I feel bad because they got left hung out to dry pretty much the whole time they are Japanese. They didn't inherit the technology, modernity and other elements that the rest of Japan got. They make up for it with great weather, easy going people, and awesome beaches. I am by no means an expert on Okinawa, and don't claim to be. What I know is what I've picked up on since arriving.

I guess my biggest source of discontent is the fact that this island is the way it is. How can so many Americans, military and civilian, live here and have lived here constantly for so long, still be subject to these overblown charges ? Where is the trust ? Granted there have been incidents, and rape is never something to take lightly. But as the news reports are coming out, its becoming more and more obvious that its more like an actual sexual assault, not rape. I say that because rape has so much more of a bite to it. "Rape" causes Prime Ministers and Secretary of States to get involved. "Rape" also causes knee jerk reactions that never needed to happen. It also seems like an issue that Okinawa takes to a level it just doesn't need to go to. Again, I want to add the caveat: "rape is never to be taken lightly, and i don't condone or support it in any way", but it's not something that should involve international heads of state. Thats just ridiculous and overblown. And if it's such a huge deal, why is it nowhere to be found on the Mainichi Daily News or Japan Times now? That is what makes me wonder why and why the Okinawa gov't makes it sound like the guy murdered someone. They also fail to mention that this girl in question had an American boyfriend before; and he financed a vacation to the U.S. for her and her family.

[jimbob17755]

Hey look,
Didn't we go through this jobs/work/locals/etc.,etc, before? A lazy son of a bitch is a lazy SOB no matter what color he is!:thumbup:

[Muku]

Sorry..lost my head. I guess it’s OK for people to call other people or groups of people racist when they post but not directly to other people in the forum. Still new to this posting thing…Hey I’m learning.
Suggestion here....instead of calling someone a racist directly, do it the round about way.....you come across as a racist, or Are you racist?, you sound to me like you might be racist, or something similar along those lines. Then you won't have or see moderator warnings in threads.

[Muku]

I guess my biggest source of discontent is the fact that this island is the way it is. How can so many Americans, military and civilian, live here and have lived here constantly for so long, still be subject to these overblown charges ? Where is the trust ? Granted there have been incidents, and rape is never something to take lightly. But as the news reports are coming out, its becoming more and more obvious that its more like an actual sexual assault, not rape. I say that because rape has so much more of a bite to it. "Rape" causes Prime Ministers and Secretary of States to get involved. "Rape" also causes knee jerk reactions that never needed to happen. It also seems like an issue that Okinawa takes to a level it just doesn't need to go to. Again, I want to add the caveat: "rape is never to be taken lightly, and i don't condone or support it in any way", but it's not something that should involve international heads of state. Thats just ridiculous and overblown. And if it's such a huge deal, why is it nowhere to be found on the Mainichi Daily News or Japan Times now? That is what makes me wonder why and why the Okinawa gov't makes it sound like the guy murdered someone.
First off good post here, thanks for taking the time to go through and reread your posts. Much appreciated.:thumbup:

The trust has been broken too many times over the past 60 years, there are literally hundreds of cases of crimminal acts by US Military personnel against the local Japanese/Okinawan community. This is from serious crimes as murder and rape, down to petty theft.

You tell me how trust can be built when there is an expectation, particularly amongst the people living closer to the bases that something is going to happen sometime. Try living with that, everyday of your life.

Most people accept it as a price to pay for having the bases here, but there is so much culturally different about Americans and Japanese, particularly Okinawan's. Think about that too, price to pay.

Yeah the press overblows incidents here, oh and it is the local press for the most part, however the mainland press will pickup on major stuff. However it is the media here and the people that have issues with the bases on their own or their own agenda, read politicians, that blown their horn the most.

Believe me it's not that big of a deal with the local island community. Americans generally speaking are more apt to read newspapers and get information and believe it. Here there are many more that take a more cynical approach to the news from my experience. They dont believe everything they read.

They also fail to mention that this girl in question had an American boyfriend before; and he financed a vacation to the U.S. for her and her family.

I hope you have some source to link this too, because just popping up hearsay facts about this case does little to difuse the issue and just gets more people pointing fingers at each other.

[Oki Cajun]

The trust has been broken too many times over the past 60 years, there are literally hundreds of cases of crimminal acts by US Military personnel against the local Japanese/Okinawan community. This is from serious crimes as murder and rape, down to petty theft.

You tell me how trust can be built when there is an expectation, particularly amongst the people living closer to the bases that something is going to happen sometime. Try living with that, everyday of your life.

I fully appreciate what they are going through. But guess what ? They'd be going through it anyway. You are completely reflecting the local attitude that seems to say that if the U.S. wasn't here, there wouldn't be any crime. Everyone lives with a chance of crime every day. Don' t you think it's just a tad ridiculous that people are treated the same way after NYC was under attack as when one girl was sexually assaulted ? Okinawans are not innocent, and although I don't have access to exact numbers, I am sure they committed double, three, or four times more than the U.S. in 60 years.

Yes I re-read my posts, but I don't believe I was wrong in any way. If they aren't ID card holders, they don't need to be on base using base facilities. And like I said, I don't completely begrudge them for taking advantage, after all they weren't told not too. It just seems in bad taste on their part.

And for the record, I don't think you are Okinawan or Japanese, I think you are probably from a western country, based on your diction and point of view Probably originally American based on the fact that called me a "borderline racist". I believe a true Okinawan (or Japanese) would have brought a different argument to the table, and would have at least mentioned WW2, 1972, and the fact that the Ryukyus went years and years with no military and weren't bothered at all. It would shock me if you even speak Japanese.

[P_chan]

I fully appreciate what they are going through. But guess what ? They'd be going through it anyway. You are completely reflecting the local attitude that seems to say that if the U.S. wasn't here, there wouldn't be any crime. Everyone lives with a chance of crime every day. Don' t you think it's just a tad ridiculous that people are treated the same way after NYC was under attack as when one girl was sexually assaulted ? Okinawans are not innocent, and although I don't have access to exact numbers, I am sure they committed double, three, or four times more than the U.S. in 60 years.

Yes I re-read my posts, but I don't believe I was wrong in any way. If they aren't ID card holders, they don't need to be on base using base facilities. And like I said, I don't completely begrudge them for taking advantage, after all they weren't told not too. It just seems in bad taste on their part.

And for the record, I don't think you are Okinawan or Japanese, I think you are probably from a western country, based on your diction and point of view Probably originally American based on the fact that called me a "borderline racist". I believe a true Okinawan (or Japanese) would have brought a different argument to the table, and would have at least mentioned WW2, 1972, and the fact that the Ryukyus went years and years with no military and weren't bothered at all. It would shock me if you even speak Japanese.

But you leave out the simple fact that if we weren't here, we wouldn't be committing these crimes. Doesn't really matter that the Japanese commit more crimes then us.

Don't need to be on base huh? So your one of those guys who gives me dirty looks once I bring my whole immediate family to sunday brunch?

[Oki Cajun]

But you leave out the simple fact that if we weren't here, we wouldn't be committing these crimes. Doesn't really matter that the Japanese commit more crimes then us.

Don't need to be on base huh? So your one of those guys who gives me dirty looks once I bring my whole immediate family to sunday brunch?


It's not a simple fact at all. Okinawans are not angels. If no one was here, Okinawans included, there would be no crime either. But you can bet your ass that if they came under attack or had a natural disaster, people would be remembering how we bailed them out more than a few isolated incidents that were prosecuted to the full extent of Japanese law and the UCMJ.

No, if your immediate family spent the whole week before badmouthing Americans and then came on base to the buffet, then yes I'd be giving you dirty looks. I have enough couthe and tact that I don't give dirty looks to anyone, much less waste my time and energy getting mad at people I don't know. My wife is Japanese, and when her family is in, we go to the buffet too. But I wouldn't take them on base during this "period of reflection". The point is, if we have to reflect and be confined within the gates, it's bad taste to have Japanese coming and going as they please. Put yourself in the shoes of the E-3 or E-4 that is brand new to the military, been here a few months, then gets totally locked down because of one idiot-ass marine. Have some respect for the innocent servicemembers too !

[Crazysix]

It's not a simple fact at all. Okinawans are not angels. If no one was here, Okinawans included, there would be no crime either. But you can bet your ass that if they came under attack or had a natural disaster, people would be remembering how we bailed them out more than a few isolated incidents that were prosecuted to the full extent of Japanese law and the UCMJ.

No, if your immediate family spent the whole week before badmouthing Americans and then came on base to the buffet, then yes I'd be giving you dirty looks. I have enough couthe and tact that I don't give dirty looks to anyone, much less waste my time and energy getting mad at people I don't know. My wife is Japanese, and when her family is in, we go to the buffet too. But I wouldn't take them on base during this "period of reflection". The point is, if we have to reflect and be confined within the gates, it's bad taste to have Japanese coming and going as they please. Put yourself in the shoes of the E-3 or E-4 that is brand new to the military, been here a few months, then gets totally locked down because of one idiot-ass marine. Have some respect for the innocent servicemembers too !
I was a Marine Pal and maybe they dont teach it in the airforce...... If one fails you all fail . As I remember a fair share of AF personnel have messed up
also. YOU GOTTA UNDERSTAND ONE THING YOU LIVE IN A FORIEGN COUNTRY AND ARE HELD ACCOUNTABLE BY LOCAL LAWS AND THE UCMJ....point blank,
I suggest you, find a new hobby, read book take a class and just ride this out until it ends or you PCS.:army:

[Oki Cajun]

I was a Marine Pal and maybe they dont teach it in the airforce...... If one fails you all fail . As I remember a fair share of AF personnel have messed up
also. YOU GOTTA UNDERSTAND ONE THING YOU LIVE IN A FORIEGN COUNTRY AND ARE HELD ACCOUNTABLE BY LOCAL LAWS AND THE UCMJ....point blank,
I suggest you, find a new hobby, read book take a class and just ride this out until it ends or you PCS.:army:

:thumbup1:Thank you, you substantiated my point. I completely agree with you, we are in a foreign country and are held accountable by local laws and the UCMJ. And thats what's happened. The Marine in question is being held just as accountable as any Japanese citizen. He's granted no special favors, and is fully subject to the local laws. Based on that, I think the rest is overkill.

[Crazysix]

This a knee jerk reaction as far alock down, even in the states if a crime is committed by a military member, they are subject to local laws and the UCMJ. What you need to understand is the fact the personal time is something that can be modified and removed by those of higher ranks.

[Oki Cajun]

This a knee jerk reaction as far alock down, even in the states if a crime is committed by a military member, they are subject to local laws and the UCMJ. What you need to understand is the fact the personal time is something that can be modified and removed by those of higher ranks.

Yes I do realize that, thank you.:thumbup1:

[Crazysix]

well if you understand that why are you bitchin

[katyp1203]

You Are So, So , So Right!!!

[Oki Cajun]

well if you undersatnd that why are you bitchin

Again, thank you. Your input is invaluable.

[Crazysix]

oki, just save your money for the afterparty or pcs

[Oki Cajun]

oki, just save your money for the afterparty or pcs

Crazy, I don't know if you've read the entire thread, but my complaint isn't about being locked down or being held accountable by local law. I actually like Okinawa the island. I think you may have misunderstood what the point of this thread is.

[Crazysix]

well probably did, but i I will say that, it does suck being on lock down because of a few idiots, but it dont mean nothing, and it will pass

[Oki Cajun]

well probably did, but i I will say that, it does suck being on lock down because of a few idiots, but it dont mean nothing, and it will pass

Yeah, and I've been in Japan long enough to have gone through this like 2 or 3 times, but never to the extent of being completely banned from off-base. It will pass, but what lit the fire under my a*^ was how quick we were turned on, and the prevailing attitude that we are the cause for all that goes wrong on Okinawa. That's the biggest difference between here and the mainland. On the mainland when something like this happens, the individual units are punished, not everyone on an entire installation. Me and Muku had some pretty heated and issue-heavy discussions, and those will probably give you a better idea of where I'm coming from and what my point is. The UCMJ and local law issue is the biggest thing to me. Under SOFA, our members are fully prosecutable under local law. So based on that, what else could we possibly do to make amends ? If he had done what he did and then ran onto the base as a safe haven, then I could see outrage. But we've given him up to local authorities, so to me, from a legal standpoint, nothing else can be done and the rest is just character assassination on the American military population.

[thinkb4uspeak]

Okay I don't know if i am posting this on the right thread. I am still new to the whole forum thing. I am a AF dep. I am part korean and american. When I was at shopping on base many of my problems didn't so much happen with active duty member it was with the spouses and children of the active duty members. I recieved many dirty looks and rude comments. I looked like an Okinawan so they thought they where better then me. They assumed and they where wrong. I feel that we are guest on there land and country they have every right to go where they please. If they want to come on base then so be it. If they have a guess pass and they are not making any trouble or harming anyone then so be it. I have encountered many people with this is a military base it's U.S. soil so they have no rights here. I personally find that insulting. Not only for the locals but for me as american to assume we are better and have additonal rights because of such.


My dad taught me never to assume anything cause look at the word assume. He told me that it say it's making an "ass of u and me".

[Crazysix]

sorry but when I was active duty I didnt care for dependents and their kids, I wouldnt worry about it, its their loss if they dont know you just gotta say screw em

[Oki Cajun]

Okay I don't know if i am posting this on the right thread. I am still new to the whole forum thing. I am a AF dep. I am part korean and american. When I was at shopping on base many of my problems didn't so much happen with active duty member it was with the spouses and children of the active duty members. I recieved many dirty looks and rude comments. I looked like an Okinawan so they thought they where better then me. They assumed and they where wrong. I feel that we are guest on there land and country they have every right to go where they please. If they want to come on base then so be it. If they have a guess pass and they are not making any trouble or harming anyone then so be it. I have encountered many people with this is a military base it's U.S. soil so they have no rights here. I personally find that insulting. Not only for the locals but for me as american to assume we are better and have additonal rights because of such.


My dad taught me never to assume anything cause look at the word assume. He told me that it say it's making an "ass of u and me".


You are completely right. I think anyone that is stationed in Japan should take Japanese history lessons and learn the language, or at least take an introductory course. For someone to give you dirty looks on base is blatantly wrong. My problem with people on base is that if now is a period of reflection for the Americans, why would it not be the same with non-Sofa (people with no i.d. cards) and otherwise people who aren't in the military during this period of reflection. I'm not saying Japanese nationals shouldn't be allowed on base, my wife is Japanese, and she is a Japanese National, I think at this particular time, with a forced separation between the base and local community, then the rules should apply to them (local Japanese who are non-SOFA sponsored). I hate the superiority complex more than anyone on the island probably. What burns me up is when I'm off base and I see Americans yelling and speaking slowly at an unwitting store clerk, when they could have found the word for what they were looking for at home, and put it together in a sentence to ask when they got there. Instead they take the lazy way out and expect everyone to speak english.

[thinkb4uspeak]

sorry but when I was active duty I didnt care for dependents and their kids, I wouldnt worry about it, its their loss if they dont know you just gotta say screw em

Oh I do. It's funny to see there reactions when I say "excuse you but your ingorance is showing." and walk away.

[P_chan]

It's not a simple fact at all. Okinawans are not angels. If no one was here, Okinawans included, there would be no crime either. But you can bet your ass that if they came under attack or had a natural disaster, people would be remembering how we bailed them out more than a few isolated incidents that were prosecuted to the full extent of Japanese law and the UCMJ.

No, if your immediate family spent the whole week before badmouthing Americans and then came on base to the buffet, then yes I'd be giving you dirty looks. I have enough couthe and tact that I don't give dirty looks to anyone, much less waste my time and energy getting mad at people I don't know. My wife is Japanese, and when her family is in, we go to the buffet too. But I wouldn't take them on base during this "period of reflection". The point is, if we have to reflect and be confined within the gates, it's bad taste to have Japanese coming and going as they please. Put yourself in the shoes of the E-3 or E-4 that is brand new to the military, been here a few months, then gets totally locked down because of one idiot-ass marine. Have some respect for the innocent servicemembers too !

Never said that all the locals are angels. That's you assuming something again.

But it really is as simple as that. That is how they see it, and it's their country. If we weren't here, it wouldn't happen. So why bitch about it?

Why not bring them on base while everyone is "reflecting"? If someone wants to be quick to judge, let them. I don't really give a shit if they think bad about me or my family.

Innocent service members? Why should I sympathize with an E3 who doesn't make an effort to actually learn something about the local culture? Why should I sympathize with them once all their gonna do is throw my wife in the same bucket as the anti base people without even knowing her? Yeah, I have sympathy for them all right. I feel sorry they live in such a close minded little world consisting of the E club, talking bad about the locals (once they don't know jack about them) and who's banging who in the dorm.

You also talk about not wasting time by getting mad at people you don't know. Are you serious? You made this whole thread to bitch about the locals you see on base. WHO YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT! Care to contradict yourself anymore?

[Muku]

Crazy, I don't know if you've read the entire thread, but my complaint isn't about being locked down or being held accountable by local law. I actually like Okinawa the island. I think you may have misunderstood what the point of this thread is.

I never thought you didnt really, only that you are biased in your opinions about Japanese and Okinawan people.

FYI I am a former Marine, and American no less. Go figure huh.:D

It's not a simple fact at all. Okinawans are not angels. If no one was here, Okinawans included, there would be no crime either. But you can bet your ass that if they came under attack or had a natural disaster, people would be remembering how we bailed them out more than a few isolated incidents that were prosecuted to the full extent of Japanese law and the UCMJ.

This btw is a very naive statement to me. It just sounds like a justification for the crimes committed. No one stated the Okinawans were angels, but that isnt the point. You cant use one to justify or excuse away the other, two wrongs do not make a right. And no it isnt hypocritical either.

Bringing up issues about natural disasters or what ever holds no water either. And btw I have never seen any US Military people help out after floods or typhoons here, off base that is, and in 20 plus years of living here I have seen plenty. Dont take the protector image so personally. You as in the US military are just one part of a larger "team" of both Japanese and Americans that provide security here in Japan. And back to the point of disasters, the JEITAI would be here first before the US Military participated in any assistance or relief efforts. But that kind of discussion only brings to light again the sound of arrogance, and superiority...kind of like telling a child to take their medicine because it's good for them, but knowing fully well that it tasted like crap going down.

Lastly....A few isolated incidents? I think you need to look through the history of the US Military here to understand that you are truly off base with this comment. It isnt just a few, and it isnt isolated either.

Granted in comparison to the past the foot print and incidents are less, but they never stop. And unfortunately they never will either. I am not so naieve to think that there will ever come a time when the US Military wont commit a crime here, it's just a fact of life.

Remember this please about the locals working on the bases, it they werent there the bases wouldnt function, they are an integral part of the overall team making the bases work.

Think about it this way.....Right now with the lockdown and not being able to go off base. Now you are getting a taste of what the overwhelming majority of Japanese people have to go through with having the bases here. :D

[Oki Cajun]

I never thought you didnt really, only that you are biased in your opinions about Japanese and Okinawan people.

FYI I am a former Marine, and American no less. Go figure huh.:D


This btw is a very naive statement to me. It just sounds like a justification for the crimes committed. No one stated the Okinawans were angels, but that isnt the point. You cant use one to justify or excuse away the other, two wrongs do not make a right. And no it isnt hypocritical either.

Bringing up issues about natural disasters or what ever holds no water either. And btw I have never seen any US Military people help out after floods or typhoons here, off base that is, and in 20 plus years of living here I have seen plenty. Dont take the protector image so personally. You as in the US military are just one part of a larger "team" of both Japanese and Americans that provide security here in Japan. And back to the point of disasters, the JEITAI would be here first before the US Military participated in any assistance or relief efforts. But that kind of discussion only brings to light again the sound of arrogance, and superiority...kind of like telling a child to take their medicine because it's good for them, but knowing fully well that it tasted like crap going down.

Lastly....A few isolated incidents? I think you need to look through the history of the US Military here to understand that you are truly off base with this comment. It isnt just a few, and it isnt isolated either.

Granted in comparison to the past the foot print and incidents are less, but they never stop. And unfortunately they never will either. I am not so naieve to think that there will ever come a time when the US Military wont commit a crime here, it's just a fact of life.

Remember this please about the locals working on the bases, it they werent there the bases wouldnt function, they are an integral part of the overall team making the bases work.

Think about it this way.....Right now with the lockdown and not being able to go off base. Now you are getting a taste of what the overwhelming majority of Japanese people have to go through with having the bases here. :D


Interesting

[RChan]

so "those" that offend you so much that you see at the px and gym are the ones bitching? so we just put all of a race in one bucket now. I guess one kkk guy is the example of all white people eh? and all black people are on food stamps too!

man, you need to get out of the sticks and see what is and what ain't. plus, the japanese pay the salaries of "those" working on base. If we had americans doing it, we would be paying twice of what the japanese pay "those" people.

By the way, that's why there are so many mexicans working is the states because americans are too lazy to work hard for a buck. go figure.

This post is comical as you criticize him for labeling and then at the end of your post you say "americans are too lazy"????

[YankeeGrl79]

This post is comical as you criticize him for labeling and then at the end of your post you say "americans are too lazy"????

Shhhh!!! Your gonna get a infraction.

[Jrocka83]

"Okinawa and American relations is like a bad marriage; Americans being the drunk Husband, and the Okinawans are like the evil wife."
-Jrocka83

[macker]

You guys need to get a room!!!

[Aidra]

Who's going to work at the Burger King/Pizza Hut/Subway? The military spouses?

Who's going to tend and water the greens at the golf courses under the hot sun in the middle of summer? The military spouses?

Uh, military dependents, yes. You don't see Americas working there because they're seldom given the option. Go on mccs.com or aafes.com and you won't find many jobs that aren't "intermittent" available for mil dependents, and the jobs that do offer decent hours get a lot of people applying for them.

[TLCoki]

I'm surprised the locals still come to work on base. Surely they must be afraid of getting raped or murdered. After all, we Americans are a barbaric horde.

[thinkb4uspeak]

Uh, military dependents, yes. You don't see Americas working there because they're seldom given the option. Go on mccs.com or aafes.com and you won't find many jobs that aren't "intermittent" available for mil dependents, and the jobs that do offer decent hours get a lot of people applying for them.


I disagree with you. They hire the military dependents. When they interview you they ask can you work these hours. Most people say yes. So they hire the dependents thinking they will work the hours needed. Yet a few weeks later the american workers start bit**hing about there hours. They hired you for thoses hours. They aren't gonna give all the spouses 9-5 hours. They are there to run a business. They do try to work with you but they aren't gonna give you every weekend off and nights off.


Another reason why they hire locals is its cheaper for them. They don't have to pay the full salary wage to a local as they do a dependent and give them benifets.

[P_chan]

I'm surprised the locals still come to work on base. Surely they must be afraid of getting raped or murdered. After all, we Americans are a barbaric horde.

Here we go again:rolleyes:

[Ammoyankee]

I actually do understand OkiCajun's frustration in at least part of his original post. Not considering on-shift base workers and contractors. Why are MLC/IHA workers who are "off-duty" still allowed to bring their family on base to have a feast of Anthony's pizza when I cannot go off-base to eat? I know this because I saw an MLC I know yesterday at the Tiki (Mainstreet USA) on Kadena with his family and I know he does not work weekends. Now, while I normally do not have a problem with this I don't think it should be allowed until the current circumstance is over. Especially since the lines to eat have increased ten-fold because of the lockdown.

[okisteve]

I nearly shed a tear for everyone who is locked onto bases, until I realized from the last post that I cannot (ever) get onto a base to have a feast of Anthony's pizza, etc. because I have no SOFA status. Instead I am forced to eat the slime that passes for pizza off base.

And don't get me started on the tacos!

I'm writing to my hometown paper tonight.
Just sign me,
Mozzarella-deprived

[Black Orchid]

Uh, military dependents, yes. You don't see Americas working there because they're seldom given the option. Go on mccs.com or aafes.com and you won't find many jobs that aren't "intermittent" available for mil dependents, and the jobs that do offer decent hours get a lot of people applying for them.



it took me a year to get my job i start next week and when you ask for an application at aafes they tell you to apply online and when you do that and look for jobs on okinawa there arent any positions available

[Muku]

I nearly shed a tear for everyone who is locked onto bases, until I realized from the last post that I cannot (ever) get onto a base to have a feast of Anthony's pizza, etc. because I have no SOFA status. Instead I am forced to eat the slime that passes for pizza off base.

And don't get me started on the tacos!

I'm writing to my hometown paper tonight.
Just sign me,
Mozzarella-deprived
Actually Pizza House's Pizza's on base taste better to me. I have to suffer with Pizza Ala or make my own. Damn Steve you are right!:cursing: :cursing:

Time for us to start protesting against this injustice, Japanese getting on base to buy pizza's when us red blooded Americans have to suffer off base with pizza ala:thumbdown: :cursing: :cursing: :cursing::rolleyes:

I am going to write the General and President Bush tomorrow....

WHY ARE OUR RIGHTS TO PIZZA BEING DENIED HERE ON OKINAWA! :eek:

[Black Orchid]

^^^ theres always taco rice...

i love taco rice :)

[Tony Stacks]

^^^ theres always taco rice...

i love taco rice :)


Yup King Taco's is the BEST.

[Muku]

Here is a recent photo of the people I have managed to get together to protest our right to get fresh pizza house pizza on base!:rolleyes: :cursing:

http://www.japanupdate.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=252&d=1203850010

[Ammoyankee]

Actually Pizza House's Pizza's on base taste better to me. I have to suffer with Pizza Ala or make my own. Damn Steve you are right!:cursing: :cursing:

Time for us to start protesting against this injustice, Japanese getting on base to buy pizza's when us red blooded Americans have to suffer off base with pizza ala:thumbdown: :cursing: :cursing: :cursing::rolleyes:

I am going to write the General and President Bush tomorrow....

WHY ARE OUR RIGHTS TO PIZZA BEING DENIED HERE ON OKINAWA! :eek:


It's all fun and games but you wouldn't care for waiting in lines either if you were limited to only a few places... As a matter of fact, you would probably have your own rant on it... And of course, anyone who disagreeed would be wrong as usual!

[Muku]

It's all fun and games but you wouldn't care for waiting in lines either if you were limited to only a few places... As a matter of fact, you would probably have your own rant on it... And of course, anyone who disagreeed would be wrong as usual!

Ammo it isnt about the lines I hope you realize.

I'm sorry you have to stand in lines because of this lockdown but that isnt what I am poking fun at here, please dont misunderstand that.

[badstreetusa]

Try Marino's Pizza; it's great. Try the Bismarck or the Bacon and Spinach...

[Big_Papa]

Wow, you guys are really going back and forth. I got tired of reading all the fighting going on.

All of you make great points, and have a lot in common, and if you got off your soap boxes for a moment I think you'd see that.

Muku, where are you from. I know you work on base, and made good points about the locals working there. However, please don't assume that they're SOFA. The sofa doesn't cover Japanese citizens, and states that in the first paragraph. If you don't believe me look it up. Why do you think all the japanese / okinawan wives are out driving around town like nothing happened? It would be strange for our military to try to hold locals "hostage", don't you think. And yes, I separated the two. Ask any okinawan if they're Japanese or Okinawan and they'll reply Okinawan. Sometimes they need to be reminded of what they're passport says. My Japanese wife will be the first to tell you that they're considered GAIJIN in Japan. Yes, outsiders, 2nd rate citizens, cockroachs, what ever you want to call them. She'll also tell you that the government has shit on them time and again.

Okicajun, you're really filled with what seems like hatred. I have many friends on both the mainland and okinawa. Most do want us here. The mainlanders are protesting because they really don't know that much about us. When I lived there, they always acted scared because they don't know us. Here, its the older farts and politicians with their "agendas". Haven't you noticed that? The news certainly won't let them get on tv and say that. They're edited out just like we are. My wife works one of the news agencies. We're not proud of it, but its a paycheck. They wouldn't get many viewers if they just reported what everyone already knows, so relax. Even American news agencies are slanted..

Everyone needs to relax and give each other a chance. We've all got friends on the other side of the line and the civil war ended in 1865.

And who cares if they come on base, they're just giving us their money while their community is learning the painful, economic lesson that this "restriction" was designed to teach. Really now...are they hurting anyone besides the local community?

[badstreetusa]

[QUOTE=Big_Papa;68822]

The sofa doesn't cover Japanese citizens, and states that in the first paragraph. If you don't believe me look it up. Why do you think they are out driving around town like nothing happened? It would be strange for our military to try to hold locals "hostage", don't you think.

USMC is holding Okinawans and Japanese married to GIs to the lockdown order. AF has cleared Okinawan and Japanese wives to roam.

[Big_Papa]

No they aren't. I'm a Marine and talked to the Military Justice folks on Thursday, and they stated as much. I think they were going to try, but the local government was in an outrage about it. It's illegal and in violation of their civil liberties, after all. A crime in itself. Pretty hypocritical don't you think?

In fact, they even loosened the restriction a bit. Before Fri, I couldn't go to teach my Jiu-Jitsu class in Naha or Okinawa City and now that's even changed.

[Tony Stacks]

They were saying that but if they did there is NO way they can enforce it. The U.S. Government can NOT dictate the movement of Japanese people in they're own country.

Wait.....not anymore anyway, they did lock down Japanese Americans in their own country some time ago.

[Oki Cajun]

Okicajun, you're really filled with what seems like hatred. I have many friends on both the mainland and okinawa. Most do want us here. The mainlanders are protesting because they really don't know that much about us. When I lived there, they always acted scared because they don't know us. Here, its the older farts and politicians with their "agendas". Haven't you noticed that? The news certainly won't let them get on tv and say that. They're edited out just like we are. My wife works one of the news agencies. We're not proud of it, but its a paycheck. They wouldn't get many viewers if they just reported what everyone already knows, so relax. Even American news agencies are slanted..

No, not filled with hatred, I was just put off by what I perceived as the local populace coming on base one day, then hating us the next. I admit, I'm new to Okinawa, I don't know how things go here. I believe what you're telling me, because it makes sense. To be honest, I have no idea what my neighbors think of me anyhow. They walk bulls and tend to a really beat up garden all day. They probably have better things to think about. It probably is just the agenda and political posturing. I swear I don't hate anyone here, it's just when I get fired up, I get fired up. I would like nothing more than to make friends here and see what it is that people enjoy so much about Okinawa.

[Oki Cajun]

No they aren't. I'm a Marine and talked to the Military Justice folks on Thursday, and they stated as much. I think they were going to try, but the local government was in an outrage about it. It's illegal and in violation of their civil liberties, after all. A crime in itself. Pretty hypocritical don't you think?

In fact, they even loosened the restriction a bit. Before Fri, I couldn't go to teach my Jiu-Jitsu class in Naha or Okinawa City and now that's even changed.

Well what I told my wife is that she probably doesn't want to go to JUSCO or San A and test the gestapo if they see a Y plate roll up. Anything within walking distance is fine, but she would not handle being questioned by Military Police and ESPECIALLY Okinawan police when she's going about her business as a normal Japanese citizen.

[badstreetusa]

No they aren't. I'm a Marine and talked to the Military Justice folks on Thursday, and they stated as much. I think they were going to try, but the local government was in an outrage about it. It's illegal and in violation of their civil liberties, after all. A crime in itself. Pretty hypocritical don't you think?

In fact, they even loosened the restriction a bit. Before Fri, I couldn't go to teach my Jiu-Jitsu class in Naha or Okinawa City and now that's even changed.

Thanks for the clarification...I questioned the Japanese-spouse issue the first day and was told that she was locked down. I asked for two days before I got the green light. I think the powers-that-be don't want that type of media nightmare on their hands.

The whole thing will pass soon. I'm really anxious to see how many people got caught over the weekend. I'm putting money on 10-20 dummies.

[Oki Cajun]

Yup King Taco's is the BEST.

Kings Tacos IS the best. I'm having withdrawals now..I tried to make it at home, but it's just not the same. I think they put crack in the taco meat to make it addictive.LOL.

[Oki Cajun]

Thanks for the clarification...I questioned the Japanese-spouse issue the first day and was told that she was locked down. I asked for two days before I got the green light. I think the powers-that-be don't want that type of media nightmare on their hands.

The whole thing will pass soon. I'm really anxious to see how many people got caught over the weekend. I'm putting money on 10-20 dummies.

According to my wife there were like 4 people that got busted at starbucks the other day, and an entire American family tried to go to JUSCO. The family allegedly got busted and the dependents have to go to the states. Supposedly the starbucks bandits have to stay on base for 6 months. Also, I heard about an Airman who went to San A in his flight suit !!!! Talk about a dum dum !!!

[TheLastDon]

Actually Pizza Hut is replacing all the anthony's pizza so please edit your rant Okisteve.

[Tony Stacks]

Actually Pizza Hut is replacing all the anthony's pizza so please edit your rant Okisteve.


:cursing::cursing:

[badstreetusa]

According to my wife there were like 4 people that got busted at starbucks the other day, and an entire American family tried to go to JUSCO. The family allegedly got busted and the dependents have to go to the states. Supposedly the starbucks bandits have to stay on base for 6 months. Also, I heard about an Airman who went to San A in his flight suit !!!! Talk about a dum dum !!!

Probably true. The debarment/loss of SOFA status part is probably true. It was covered in the original order. My wife is Japanese and hasn't had any problems or seen anything. I've been able to venture off only to drop my daughter off for sorobon, but that's it; drop and come home. I didn't get any dirty looks, business as normal.

[badstreetusa]

Actually Pizza Hut is replacing all the anthony's pizza so please edit your rant Okisteve.

Do you know when? Kadena has had both for over a year...

[TheLastDon]

i don't know when exactly, that's what I heard like 3 years ago but it hasn't happened yet sooo who knows

[TheLastDon]

The Anthony's pizza at Torri station used to be the best BTW

[Muku]

Muku, where are you from. I know you work on base, and made good points about the locals working there. However, please don't assume that they're SOFA. The sofa doesn't cover Japanese citizens, and states that in the first paragraph. If you don't believe me look it up. Why do you think all the japanese / okinawan wives are out driving around town like nothing happened? It would be strange for our military to try to hold locals "hostage", don't you think. And yes, I separated the two. Ask any okinawan if they're Japanese or Okinawan and they'll reply Okinawan. Sometimes they need to be reminded of what they're passport says.
Originally I hail from Milwaukee, WI. However I dont work on base, but my wife does, and she is Japanese. I dont assume all are SOFA either, I know better. Yet if they have the right to go on base to work, they also have the right to utilize the facilities that they are authorized to.

I understand the argument and points that people are bringing up about not allowing off base or non-sofa status visitors on base during this lockdown, however that is something the command needs to deal with. Until the time the command decides otherwise it is just another gripe to me.

Actually I can introduce you to literally thousands of Japanese people here in Okinawa that will tell you they are Japanese 1st and Okinawan 2nd. Okinawa has been assimilated to the point that the culture here is in serious, serious danger of disappearing. Hence a lot of local PR and work at getting younger kids involved in cultural activities. The difference in reply to the question are you Japanese or Okinawan depends on the generation of the person you are asking.

No the SOFA was written to protect AMERICAN service men and women here in Japan. I know that, but when those people who are under SOFA are Japanese they should be adhearing to the standards as their spouses or sponsors and not given freedom to pick and choose, when the circumstances allow, IN THIS CASE. I am not talking about daily life either. That is also my opinion, and from what I am seeing here there are some, maybe many that are following that too and I applaude them for their honor and honesty. They have been given privledges of utilizing the base and it's facilites by their marriage to a US service member and they should follow the same standards in my opinion.

That is one of the reasons I poked a joke at the pizza comments....I am American, yet I can not go back and forth on the bases. Yet my wife who works there can, and she is Japanese. I dont think it's strange, not at all, but there are some that do, think it is.

My Japanese wife will be the first to tell you that they're considered GAIJIN in Japan. Yes, outsiders, 2nd rate citizens, cockroachs, what ever you want to call them. She'll also tell you that the government has shit on them time and again.

I dont know what experiences you wife has gone through, and I also feel very sorry for what has happened to her and indirectly to you because if I read this right, you feel it too.

I have been married for over 20 years to my wife, yet there has never been a time that she has been discriminated against or called a gaijin, or treated as a 2nd rate citizen because she is married to me. The government too has never shit on her nor my familiy either.

Once again there must be two very different Okinawa's the one I live in and the one that shits on everyone else. Dont get me wrong, I can sit here and discuss issues about the Amer-Asian kids, and the problems their Mom's went through and go through .....however that is a different story, not related to this.

[Muku]

Kings Tacos IS the best. I'm having withdrawals now..I tried to make it at home, but it's just not the same. I think they put crack in the taco meat to make it addictive.LOL.

If this thing lasts until next weekend I promise to go to Kings Taco's near Awase Golf Course and get you some. :D

[dk]

Actually Pizza Hut is replacing all the anthony's pizza so please edit your rant Okisteve.
Can we get one off-base, please? I'm freakin' sick of Pizzala, Pizza House Jr, and Pizza Inn (the worst...)

[Tony Stacks]

I know that, but when those people who are under SOFA are Japanese they should be adhearing to the standards as their spouses or sponsors and not given freedom to pick and choose, when the circumstances allow, IN THIS CASE. I am not talking about daily life either. That is also my opinion, and from what I am seeing here there are some, maybe many that are following that too and I applaude them for their honor and honesty. They have been given privledges of utilizing the base and it's facilites by their marriage to a US service member and they should follow the same standards in my opinion.



NO I cannot agree.
Why because they are Japanese citizens therefore they should NOT have to follow the same regulations as the rest of the SOFA spouses. They are in this country as citizens here.

Now the other spouses should because they don't have visas and are in country with SOFA status.

MY 2 yen

[Big_Papa]

Actually I can introduce you to literally thousands of Japanese people here in Okinawa that will tell you they are Japanese 1st and Okinawan 2nd. Okinawa has been assimilated to the point that the culture here is in serious, serious danger of disappearing. Hence a lot of local PR and work at getting younger kids involved in cultural activities. The difference in reply to the question are you Japanese or Okinawan depends on the generation of the person you are asking.

I will definitely agree with you there. The (I'll call them above 40 crowd) that we deal with still say Okinawan.

No the SOFA was written to protect AMERICAN service men and women here in Japan. I know that, but when those people who are under SOFA are Japanese they should be adhearing to the standards as their spouses or sponsors and not given freedom to pick and choose, when the circumstances allow, IN THIS CASE. I am not talking about daily life either. That is also my opinion, and from what I am seeing here there are some, maybe many that are following that too and I applaude them for their honor and honesty. They have been given privledges of utilizing the base and it's facilites by their marriage to a US service member and they should follow the same standards in my opinion.

I can certainly appreciate your opinion here. My wife is doing the same, except for work. She feels like certain parts of the local community need to learn to watch what they ask for. Of course she sympathizes with all of our friends, and we even miss them a bit. I really miss my students...

I dont know what experiences you wife has gone through, and I also feel very sorry for what has happened to her and indirectly to you because if I read this right, you feel it too.

I have been married for over 20 years to my wife, yet there has never been a time that she has been discriminated against or called a gaijin, or treated as a 2nd rate citizen because she is married to me. The government too has never shit on her nor my familiy either.

I'm glad to here that, its definitely different where my wife comes from.


Once again there must be two very different Okinawa's the one I live in and the one that shits on everyone else. Dont get me wrong, I can sit here and discuss issues about the Amer-Asian kids, and the problems their Mom's went through and go through .....however that is a different story, not related to this.

I with you here, too. I'm not looking forward to my kids having to go to school when they're "half-u", but I'm sure they'll do just fine. We'll be in mainland by then, anyway.

I prefer to be called "gaikokujin" rather than "gaijin". I think most educated Japanese will tell you it sounds less racist. I like it because no one really uses that word when referring to us. My nihongo is exceptional, and I hear some pretty jacked up conversations all the time.

[Big_Papa]

Man, I really suck at the whole quote thing. Hope you can read that.

LMAO

[Big_Papa]

had to change the color real quick. I still suck at it, tho.

[TheLastDon]

Can we get one off-base, please? I'm freakin' sick of Pizzala, Pizza House Jr, and Pizza Inn (the worst...)

Hey DK you want Pizza hut? I will hook you up.<3

[badstreetusa]

I haven't been to Pizza Hut since they got rid of the thin crust...that sux they don't carry it anymore. Marino's off-base or Digiornio frozen for us now...

[TheLastDon]

I haven't been to Pizza Hut since they got rid of the thin crust...that sux they don't carry it anymore. Marino's off-base or Digiornio frozen for us now...

They don't have thin crust anymore? :cursing:Get out of town. I had so much good pizza when I was in Chicago I haven't had desire to go to pizza hut yet.

[Muku]

I with you here, too. I'm not looking forward to my kids having to go to school when they're "half-u", but I'm sure they'll do just fine. We'll be in mainland by then, anyway.

My daughter graduated from a Japanese Elementary School and the "hafu" thing was a non-issue because for the most part I was highly involved in the PTA at her school. 6 Years, I was on the board for the last 2 years.

Where I live I am not refered to as either gaijin nor gaikokujin, I am called either "muku" or T's dad, or M's dad. I know though where you come from when you say that though.

To me it really isnt an issue anymore, I have gotten past worrying or really caring anymore about what people choose to call me.

The one's that know me dont, and the rest.....it's their loss.:D

[okisteve]

Wow, you guys are really going back and forth. I got tired of reading all the fighting going on.

Even amoeba will start fighting with each other when they don't have anything else to do.

All of you make great points, and have a lot in common, and if you got off your soap boxes for a moment I think you'd see that.

Ask any okinawan if they're Japanese or Okinawan and they'll reply Okinawan. Sometimes they need to be reminded of what they're passport says. My Japanese wife will be the first to tell you that they're considered GAIJIN in Japan. Yes, outsiders, 2nd rate citizens, cockroachs, what ever you want to call them. She'll also tell you that the government has shit on them time and again.\

Since I made exactly the opposite claim yesterday I think I need to add something: I said that Okinawans consider themselves Japanese. But the other situation (maybe more common) is that when you meet someone in a strange context and are not sure whether they are Okinawan or a mainlander, they will surely answer that they are Okinawan.

As for being called gaijin in Japan, "outsider" isn't necessarily a negative term. Think of American southerners calling northerners Yankees. They ARE different, and Okinawans always refer to naichu or yamatonchu also. I seriously doubt that most mainlanders think of Okinawans as second-class citizens of Japan though.

The government shitting on the Okinawans. Sure, in the past. But I wouldn't say that massive infrastructure investments etc. in the more recent past fall into that category.

Even American news agencies are slanted..

Oh no.... tell me you're kidding.:rolleyes:

Everyone needs to relax and give each other a chance. We've all got friends on the other side of the line and the civil war ended in 1865.

Let's go back to the South for a moment.....




All in good fun!

[okisteve]

Actually Pizza House's Pizza's on base taste better to me. I have to suffer with Pizza Ala or make my own. Damn Steve you are right!:cursing: :cursing:

Time for us to start protesting against this injustice, Japanese getting on base to buy pizza's when us red blooded Americans have to suffer off base with pizza ala:thumbdown: :cursing: :cursing: :cursing::rolleyes:

I am going to write the General and President Bush tomorrow....

WHY ARE OUR RIGHTS TO PIZZA BEING DENIED HERE ON OKINAWA! :eek:

You'll get a fancy form letter back saying that they also consider it a high priority, etc. Hey - if you're ever at Palette Kumoji there's an Italian restaurant on the top floor that makes really excellent pizza, and their other food is also very nice. They have a good deal on lunch sets that can include pizza.

[TheLastDon]

You'll get a fancy form letter back saying that they also consider it a high priority, etc. Hey - if you're ever at Palette Kumoji there's an Italian restaurant on the top floor that makes really excellent pizza, and their other food is also very nice. They have a good deal on lunch sets that can include pizza.

If it has corn on it I'm gonaa kick your butt Steve.:rolleyes:

[okisteve]

Nope, no squid either. They use a lot of Italian herbs and I think fresh basil.

[nipponliving]

Here my 2 yen for the night… I’ve been on this island for more than 20 years (3 active duty, 12 as a civilian without an ID card, and the last 8 as a ‘local hire’ with an ID card). I had to give up my gaijin torokusho in order to get the base job. I own my own house here (in my name) and also have land in a few locations. My job does not pay for my house or any utilities (local hire). Do I still need to be locked down? Here’s my opinion.

My Japanese wife should not need to “reflect” and stay on-base or in our off-base home because of a few of my countrymen’s wrong doings. My duel citizen teenage child who attends a local Japanese school should not need to go straight home after school to “reflect”.

I on the other hand choose to accept the position on base and knew I’d be loosing some of my privileges I enjoyed in order to gain a few privileges and stability as my child finishes school. I don’t really like that I can’t take my child to our favorite fishing spot or pick him up when he’s at a friend's house. But those are the rules…for now. I agree with some and not with others but I must obey them. If the lockdown were to continue for a long period of time (I don’t think it will) I will need to rethink my employment. My entire family is off-base, my life outside work is off-base. I’d have no problem giving up my shopping and mailing on-base privileges for my off-base privileges if I HAD to. I wouldn’t want to but this lockdown does make me think.

I see many posts talking about the exceptions to the lockdown. I here saw the post showing the AF FAQ sheet and do’s and don’ts. I saw a similar one for one of the Marine units but I heard it was a rumor. My employer informed all of us what they expect from us and gave NO general additional exceptions to the first rules from the General.

It will be an interesting week to come.

BTW – Here's a fun thought for DK –Muku - Hank and others that are not SOFA. Make some t-shirts up in Japanese and English saying – I’m NOT SOFA so please STOP staring at me!

[Tony Stacks]

My Japanese wife should not need to “reflect” and stay on-base or in our off-base home because of a few of my countrymen’s wrong doings. My duel citizen teenage child who attends a local Japanese school should not need to go straight home after school to “reflect”.




They don't have to. They cannot restrict the movement of Japanese citizens in their own country.

[Muku]

BTW – Here's a fun thought for DK –Muku - Hank and others that are not SOFA. Make some t-shirts up in Japanese and English saying – I’m NOT SOFA so please STOP staring at me!


DK what size do you wear?

While this suggestion is humorus the only sad part about it is that the only people that would understand the word SOFA itself are the Americans, because in Japanese SOFA translates to a phrase that while indicates the agreement between Japan and the USA regarding the forces here people don't or wouldnt get the idea.

I would suggest for the Japanese translation ..

Chaa mii suruna! Watashiwa Beigun janai desu!

Which translates to Quit staring I'm not American Military. Oh and the -begining part for those that dont know is Okinawa hougen.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seriously though, it really doesnt bother me anymore when people here stare, they are going to do it anyway and I have gotten past the point of caring unless they decide to enter my or my families personal zone.

Which has happened before. I mean shit it isnt worth getting excited about, I wonder if the people making comments here about the looks that they are getting are just becoming aware of it now, in comparison to the past. For the most part, and if the staring person doesnt go the next step and become an intruder, then it should only bother someone if they want it to. People are possibly hypersensitive about this now, not saying it's wrong, but am saying dont let it get to you. Now you know how I feel everyday.:D (I'm lying there, but there was a time I did)

I feel people control their own feelings and should now allow situations to control them. People give up their power of choice when they allow others to dictate how they should feel. I mean hell, if I look that great that you want to stare come and ask me for my autograph at least:thumbup1::cool:

Also are they misreading the looks, hell I dont know I wasnt there, but if I had a 100 yen for ever time someone stared at me...I'd own this island:w00t:

I hope this thing ends soon, but I will say that for many it has been a learning experience on both sides of the fence.:D
---------------------------------------------------------------------

They don't have to. They cannot restrict the movement of Japanese citizens in their own country.

Tony are you sure about this?

If the person is on base, either active duty or dependant and under SOFA status why not? They have been given the privledges of the bases, they are under the SOFA, they are bound by it's regulations as well.

If that's the case then if they choose not to follow the regulations they should be stripped of SOFA status and not allowed on base, or have to go through the same procedures as everyone else that doesnt have an ID card. No special privledges.

Hell think about this, American local hires have to give up their residency status here in Japan to take SOFA status jobs on base.

Edited to add.....
Correct me if I am wrong here please. Tony I believe that the General has the right to limit access to the bases as he fit. Whether or not he decides to implement that right to include the Japanese citizens or any other citizens that are under his control, specifically under SOFA that includes Japanese citizens is another issue.

[DoctorP]

Took out the extra post Muku

[Big_Papa]

Correct me if I am wrong here please. Tony I believe that the General has the right to limit access to the bases as he fit. Whether or not he decides to implement that right to include the Japanese citizens or any other citizens that are under his control, specifically under SOFA that includes Japanese citizens is another issue.


Actually, all of the legal offices have stated that there will be no trying to restrict the movement of Japanese spouses, since they do not fall under the SOFA.

To all that continue to post that they get their privileges (PX / Comm) because of the SOFA are incorrect. They get them from simply having an ID card.

Driving privileges (for Y plates) are considered SOFA privileges, and housing/cola etc are because of command sponsorship. As I've been on duty all night, I can't really think of any others.

[Muku]

Actually, all of the legal offices have stated that there will be no trying to restrict the movement of Japanese spouses, since they do not fall under the SOFA.

To all that continue to post that they get their privileges (PX / Comm) because of the SOFA are incorrect. They get them from simply having an ID card.

Driving privileges (for Y plates) are considered SOFA privileges, and housing/cola etc are because of command sponsorship. As I've been on duty all night, I can't really think of any others.


BigPapa just for clarification here I have a question....Japanese spouses of US military members that are not US citizens right?

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

I would suggest for the Japanese translation ..

Chaa mii suruna! Watashiwa Beigun janai desu!


Interesting switch between masculine and feminine patterns of speech in the two sentences.

[Muku]

Interesting switch between masculine and feminine patterns of speech in the two sentences.

Not everyone here eel is male eel:rolleyes:

For those that really care...take out the Watashiwa....and just leave

Chaamii Suruna!
Beigun Janai :rolleyes:

Ensure that you use the :rolleyes:

Oh and btw...chaamii suruna can be either masculine or femine in practical usage.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Well Muku, a lady would not use suruna in public, but certainly a particular type of woman may use that very masculine sort of speech. Further, as you claim to be a man, you may wish to use male patterns of speech, and point out when you are departing from them for the benefit of your audience.

[P_chan]

They don't have thin crust anymore? :cursing:Get out of town. I had so much good pizza when I was in Chicago I haven't had desire to go to pizza hut yet.

Chicagoland pizza is some of the best pizza in the world IMHO.

[Muku]

Chicagoland pizza is some of the best pizza in the world IMHO.

I agree...I prefer Gino's East personally!:thumbup:

[Muku]

Well Muku, a lady would not use suruna in public, but certainly a particular type of woman may use that very masculine sort of speech. Further, as you claim to be a man, you may wish to use male patterns of speech, and point out when you are departing from them for the benefit of your audience.

And like all TShirts here in Japan are gramatically correct too.:rolleyes:

Oh and learn a little more hougen, before you lecture here about what a woman, "lady" or otherwise would or would not say. In private or public for that matter.

Read the line under my non existant avatar....that btw refers to you, you should feel honored by that.:rolleyes:

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Muku, you are losing, and losing badly! Suruna is the same in standard Japanese. The "na" form of the verb "to do". I was correcting your Japanese, not your Uchinaguchi (I'll do that at some other occasion of my choosing).

A primer on this verb conjugation from http://www.jref.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-12598.html for your benefit, Muku.
Also, you can use na after the dictionary form of a verb to make the setence negative. I think that function is used only in informal speech though since it does come off as sort of crude in formal speech...
It doesn't make the whole sentence negative, it makes the verb into a (extremely blunt and direct) negative imperative (command form), e.g. "Ugoku na!" = Don't move! (or "Freeze!").

[P_chan]

Uh oh, someone is getting on someone else about something that really doesn't matter. I better dial "whine-one-one"

http://doogs.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/whambulance.jpg

[scarlett belle]

hate to say it but i felt that way when i first came here too like why is it so hard for me to get a job here and it took me a year to get a job im not really keen about but i gotta take it because i need the money...

but thats the way it is and i gotta live with it

I hear ya! :thumbup: Even with "spouse preference" and a degree it still took me nearly 8 months to land ANY job and I applied everywhere: AAFES, NAF, GS/NSPS, DoDDS, Army, Navy Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard...wait...we don't have Coast Guard here. :D But you can bet, if they had had one, I'd have applied there!! :first: And I wasn't picky either; wait staff, daycare, volunteer work, you name it. Still took me 8 months. Good news is, while waiting for an interview or job offer, I got to bop around Okinawa, see the sights, taste some treats! :thumbup:

It is frustrating...annoying even that it's so hard to get a job...ANY job on the island. In today's society, dual incomes are the norm...not to mention the fact that the military doesn't pay nearly what the civilan sector would for equivelant experience or expertise. But getting and maintaining a job; let alone building a career is nearly impossible as a military spouse.

Every time our sponsor moves...any foot hold we've managed to gain at the current job is **poof** gone! :cursing: The networking we spent months building...is of little or no use at the next station...unless ofcourse someone there knows someone here. :D We're not guaranteed a job, let alone an equivelant paying job. Even GS/NSPS that goes into LWOP status and hangs in limbo for up to a year...keeps you from loosing sick/annual leave...but you have to LAND THE NEXT JOB!! otherwise...*poof** there it goes. :crying:

Bottom line, and I know I'm a fixing to upset some folks...but spouses married to active duty military members should have FIRST priority. Period. Even if that means an incumbant teacher, local national, GS/NSPS, etc gets bumped from their job (similar to stopper lists) the military spouse who is trained, qualified, and willing to do that job should have first dibs. Incumbants have a choice, they can get another job in the local area or back in the states. Military spouses are at the whimsy of the PCS gods. Priority placement would atleast even up the playing field a bit.

**sneaking off my soap box now** :o

[Oki Cajun]

Muku, you are losing, and losing badly! Suruna is the same in standard Japanese. The "na" form of the verb "to do". I was correcting your Japanese, not your Uchinaguchi (I'll do that at some other occasion of my choosing).

A primer on this verb conjugation from http://www.jref.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-12598.html for your benefit, Muku.

That was actually pretty helpful. I never learned the na conjugation. My wife says when I speak Japanese I sound bookish. But that could be because I break up my conversations into chapters and page numbers.

[Oki Cajun]

I hear ya! :thumbup: Even with "spouse preference" and a degree it still took me nearly 8 months to land ANY job and I applied everywhere: AAFES, NAF, GS/NSPS, DoDDS, Army, Navy Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard...wait...we don't have Coast Guard here. :D But you can bet, if they had had one, I'd have applied there!! :first: And I wasn't picky either; wait staff, daycare, volunteer work, you name it. Still took me 8 months. Good news is, while waiting for an interview or job offer, I got to bop around Okinawa, see the sights, taste some treats! :thumbup:

It is frustrating...annoying even that it's so hard to get a job...ANY job on the island. In today's society, dual incomes are the norm...not to mention the fact that the military doesn't pay nearly what the civilan sector would for equivelant experience or expertise. But getting and maintaining a job; let alone building a career is nearly impossible as a military spouse.

Every time our sponsor moves...any foot hold we've managed to gain at the current job is **poof** gone! :cursing: The networking we spent months building...is of little or no use at the next station...unless ofcourse someone there knows someone here. :D We're not guaranteed a job, let alone an equivelant paying job. Even GS/NSPS that goes into LWOP status and hangs in limbo for up to a year...keeps you from loosing sick/annual leave...but you have to LAND THE NEXT JOB!! otherwise...*poof** there it goes. :crying:

Bottom line, and I know I'm a fixing to upset some folks...but spouses married to active duty military members should have FIRST priority. Period. Even if that means an incumbant teacher, local national, GS/NSPS, etc gets bumped from their job (similar to stopper lists) the military spouse who is trained, qualified, and willing to do that job should have first dibs. Incumbants have a choice, they can get another job in the local area or back in the states. Military spouses are at the whimsy of the PCS gods. Priority placement would atleast even up the playing field a bit.

**sneaking off my soap box now** :o


You could get a job at Whisper Alley, they are always hiring...HAHAH...just kidding

Seriously though, my wife doesn't work by choice, because yes, its hard to get a job on base (dependent wife Japanese are in a different hiring category than local population Japanese, or so I'm told), and off base the jobs pay shit and you'd just be paying your entire salary to gas or insurance. She was saying at most temp kinda jobs it pays like 500 or 600 yen an hour.

[badstreetusa]

I hear ya! :thumbup: Even with "spouse preference" and a degree it still took me nearly 8 months to land ANY job and I applied everywhere: AAFES, NAF, GS/NSPS, DoDDS, Army, Navy Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard...wait...we don't have Coast Guard here. :D But you can bet, if they had had one, I'd have applied there!! :first: And I wasn't picky either; wait staff, daycare, volunteer work, you name it. Still took me 8 months. Good news is, while waiting for an interview or job offer, I got to bop around Okinawa, see the sights, taste some treats! :thumbup:

It is frustrating...annoying even that it's so hard to get a job...ANY job on the island. In today's society, dual incomes are the norm...not to mention the fact that the military doesn't pay nearly what the civilan sector would for equivelant experience or expertise. But getting and maintaining a job; let alone building a career is nearly impossible as a military spouse.

Every time our sponsor moves...any foot hold we've managed to gain at the current job is **poof** gone! :cursing: The networking we spent months building...is of little or no use at the next station...unless ofcourse someone there knows someone here. :D We're not guaranteed a job, let alone an equivelant paying job. Even GS/NSPS that goes into LWOP status and hangs in limbo for up to a year...keeps you from loosing sick/annual leave...but you have to LAND THE NEXT JOB!! otherwise...*poof** there it goes. :crying:

Bottom line, and I know I'm a fixing to upset some folks...but spouses married to active duty military members should have FIRST priority. Period. Even if that means an incumbant teacher, local national, GS/NSPS, etc gets bumped from their job (similar to stopper lists) the military spouse who is trained, qualified, and willing to do that job should have first dibs. Incumbants have a choice, they can get another job in the local area or back in the states. Military spouses are at the whimsy of the PCS gods. Priority placement would atleast even up the playing field a bit.

**sneaking off my soap box now** :o

Oh, hell no...if you dislike the situation that much, file for divorce and leave the island...how selfish to declare you should bump every one else...

[scarlett belle]

It's not that I "hate it that much"...my family and I are enjoying Okinawa. The people and culture are fascinating. Okinawans as a whole are the most genuinely sincere and gentle people I've ever encountered (and we've traveled the world).

My point is that the employment opportunities for military SOFA status dependants is in dire need of an overhaul. Part of the problem is that too many jobs are locked-in...ie nobody rotates so the job never becomes available.

The beauty of military families working on base is that military families rotate... when they PCS the jobs open up...the next bunch PCS in and there are jobs waiting. Magic.

With regards to the AAFES, Chilis, USO, clubs, and Mainstreet jobs...the numbers of temp staff holding those positions is staggering. Why not allow a teenager looking for summer jobs or a dependant spouse looking for that needed second income, have first shot at replacing a temp worker before the contract is renewed? Why not impose the 8 yr limit on DoDDs teachers so they rotate openning another opportunity for military spouses? It's not about "shoving someone out" it's about making the playing field more fair.

[Tony Stacks]

It's not that I "hate it that much"...my family and I are enjoying Okinawa. The people and culture are fascinating. Okinawans as a whole are the most genuinely sincere and gentle people I've ever encountered (and we've traveled the world).

My point is that the employment opportunities for military SOFA status dependants is in dire need of an overhaul. Part of the problem is that too many jobs are locked-in...ie nobody rotates so the job never becomes available.

The beauty of military families working on base is that military families rotate... when they PCS the jobs open up...the next bunch PCS in and there are jobs waiting. Magic.

With regards to the AAFES, Chilis, USO, clubs, and Mainstreet jobs...the numbers of temp staff holding those positions is staggering. Why not allow a teenager looking for summer jobs or a dependant spouse looking for that needed second income, have first shot at replacing a temp worker before the contract is renewed? Why not impose the 8 yr limit on DoDDs teachers so they rotate openning another opportunity for military spouses? It's not about "shoving someone out" it's about making the playing field more fair.


Because dependant spouses don't have to work. You get free housing, COLA, free medical, COMRATS, so if you don't want tp work you don't have to.

[badstreetusa]

It's not about "shoving someone out" it's about making the playing field more fair.

Spoken like someone that's jealous of they system. The DODDs folks got in on a good deal and shouldn't be forced out. And they are hiring, I know two folks that got hired in the last year as DODDs teachers.

[scarlett belle]

Not everyone is so lucky. There are a myriad of reasons why in today's society a second income is vital to the family's overall economic growth and stability. COLA doesn't cover everything. Certainly not as much as a second income would. Ask any enlisted spouse who is trying to buy food at the commissary and ship half their necessities from the states because AAFES doesn't carry it. Some use that second income to pay off college loans, support a sick family member back home, put a son/daughter through college, make car payments on the vehicle they had to leave in storage, make mortage payments on the house they can't sell because the market is busted. Family members don't get BAS/COMRATS; only the military member gets those and he/she has to be TDY/Deployed.

Situations may have changed since you were active duty. Situations may be different than outside perception. Having a second income is not a frivilrous endeavour that "selfish" dependants search out like the holy grail. It's a necessity that unfortunately isn't readily available as it probably could...or should be.

[Tony Stacks]

Not everyone is so lucky. There are a myriad of reasons why in today's society a second income is vital to the family's overall economic growth and stability. COLA doesn't cover everything. Certainly not as much as a second income would. Ask any enlisted spouse who is trying to buy food at the commissary and ship half their necessities from the states because AAFES doesn't carry it. Some use that second income to pay off college loans, support a sick family member back home, put a son/daughter through college, make car payments on the vehicle they had to leave in storage, make mortage payments on the house they can't sell because the market is busted. Family members don't get BAS/COMRATS; only the military member gets those and he/she has to be TDY/Deployed.

Situations may have changed since you were active duty. Situations may be different than outside perception. Having a second income is not a frivilrous endeavour that "selfish" dependants search out like the holy grail. It's a necessity that unfortunately isn't readily available as it probably could...or should be.

NO you don't NEED to work. You don't pay rent, utilities or medical.

I'm not saying you will be comfortable. But it can be done.

[scarlett belle]

I should probably add, that this isn't an attempt to swindle or con someone else out of a job. Not a day goes by that I don't hear in conversation or in passing mention how hard it is to find work on Okinawa. Personally, I'm blessed...work is something I do for the sheer fun of it. But others aren't so fortunate, and if posting will get the attention of someone in a position to make the changes necessary...then all the harsh criticism is worth it. I don't claim to have the answers...I just want the opportunity to work. Why is that such a bad thing? I'd think you'd be praising us for wanting to support our family and make a better contribution to society.

[Tony Stacks]

I do but I resent it when a spouse gets a job over a retiree or a vet.
jmo

[scarlett belle]

NO you don't NEED to work. You don't pay rent, utilities or medical.

I'm not saying you will be comfortable. But it can be done.

It's not always about comfort, rent, utilities, and medical. Yes, living on base you don't pay utilities or rent. But if you're off base the difference comes out of your check. And if you PCS when there's no availability guess where you go? Yup. Off base.

Also, Tricare doesn't pay for everything. There are plenty of families who use off base facilities and pay out of pocket because the service they need isn't "supported" (no facilities/docs to handle it). Tricare doesn't reimburse that. There are folks paying car loans and house payments for things they couldn't sell before arriving on island. The military doesn't reimburse those costs nor does it suppliment them. Again there are many reasons outside of "bank rolling" for a second income to be necessary.

[Tony Stacks]

It's not always about comfort, rent, utilities, and medical. Yes, living on base you don't pay utilities or rent. But if you're off base the difference comes out of your check. And if you PCS when there's no availability guess where you go? Yup. Off base.

Also, Tricare doesn't pay for everything. There are plenty of families who use off base facilities and pay out of pocket because the service they need isn't "supported" (no facilities/docs to handle it). Tricare doesn't reimburse that. There are folks paying car loans and house payments for things they couldn't sell before arriving on island. The military doesn't reimburse those costs nor does it suppliment them. Again there are many reasons outside of "bank rolling" for a second income to be necessary.


When u live off base you get OHA.
Tricare prime covers everthing.
Tricare standard has a fee.

[scarlett belle]

I do but I resent it when a spouse gets a job over a retiree or a vet.
jmo


As a vet, I agree. Quality should still trump the "want" to work. A spouse shouldn't get the job just because he/she is a spouse. That being said, there is an ever increasing number of vet spouses. Why not give that vet spouse preference over a temp worker? Especially if he/she is qualified and willing to work it?

[Tony Stacks]

As a vet, I agree. Quality should still trump the "want" to work. A spouse shouldn't get the job just because he/she is a spouse. That being said, there is an ever increasing number of vet spouses. Why not give that vet spouse preference over a temp worker? Especially if he/she is qualified and willing to work it?


this i agree 110%

[scarlett belle]

When u live off base you get OHA.
Tricare prime covers everthing.
Tricare standard has a fee.

OHA will offset the cost, it's not meant to "cover" everything.

Tricare prime only covers what Tricare sanctions. :old: If you have a back/neck injury and require regular therapy...Tricare's answer is a rubber stretchy band and some paper hand outs. Oh!! And if you're a really good girl...they might just stretch you out once every 4-6 weeks. :first: Compare that to a civilian/off base doc who treats the patient weekly with deep tissue massage, guided physical therapy, and strengthening exercises. Tricare prime won't cover it, because in their paper world the rubber band is cheaper. :army:

[Tony Stacks]

OHA will offset the cost, it's not meant to "cover" everything.



Yes it does cover everything. It is whatever the rent amount on your lease says or the max amount for your rank plus additional money for utilities.

I know.

[Tony Stacks]

Tricare prime only covers what Tricare sanctions. :old: If you have a back/neck injury and require regular therapy...Tricare's answer is a rubber stretchy band and some paper hand outs. Oh!! And if you're a really good girl...they might just stretch you out once every 4-6 weeks. :first: Compare that to a civilian/off base doc who treats the patient weekly with deep tissue massage, guided physical therapy, and strengthening exercises. Tricare prime won't cover it, because in their paper world the rubber band is cheaper. :army:


Yea, I agree that base medical sux. Motrin and water for everything:army: Well it's not that bad, it's better than nothing.:)

[DoctorP]

To make a point. If people live within their means then they would have no problem with only one income in Okinawa. Why does an E-4 with a family need a 60" TV? That's right, they don't. Why do they run their A/C 24 hours a day and have a $500 electric bill? That's where the money is going.

As for the job thing. DocP can't agree that spouses should have first shot at a job. The ground should be level, and the best qualified person should get the job period!

Also, and I can say this as a supervisor. Socal, DocP would prefer to hire people who are going to be around for a while. If DocP hires someone that will leave in a year, what good does that do DocP? There will be no continuity in that position. A high turnover rate in some jobs will hurt customer service, and in turn make quality of life lower for the military. DocP could see doing it for some jobs...but not all of them.

[Isaak Brodsky]

Ok, am I the only one who is bothered by whole Japanese families on base at the gyms, the PX's etc ? I don't mean Japanese in general, but those Japanese who are non-SOFA and non-ID cards. ...

Oki Cajun, the local folks whom you are likely referring to here are probably MLC workers who have every right to be on base but who probably have excellent SOFA friends who have signed them into the PX and/or other places.

Does their presence in these places really bother you that much? Despite the so-called lockdown now in place, don't you also want to venture off base and get 'hold of some of your favorite sushi? Just wonderin' if you want to do the very things that you see our hosts doing - only on base rather than off.

[Ammoyankee]

Does their presence in these places really bother you that much? Despite the so-called lockdown now in place, don't you also want to venture off base and get 'hold of some of your favorite sushi? Just wonderin' if you want to do the very things that you see our hosts doing - only on base rather than off.

Ian, as I stated in another post... The only reason it bothers me now is that everything on base has lines that have increased due to the lockdown and at this time I do not feel I should have to wait behind a local national MLC worker who decides to bring his family on base for a weekend meal. Nothing against the locals as my wife is one and she agrees...