Lockdown will surpass Monday the 25th

[bravo5840]

Apparently those rumors of the lockdown ending Monday are false...

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=52691

"CAMP FOSTER, Okinawa — Marine officials Thursday shot down rumors that a base restriction for all military-sponsored Americans on the island would end Monday.

“The period of reflection will last for an indefinite period of time,” a press release issued by Marine Corps Bases Japan stated. “At this time, we cannot speculate on future changes to the order.”
The restriction was imposed Tuesday by Marine Lt. Gen. Richard C. Zilmer in his capacity as the Okinawa Area Coordinator, the highest-ranking U.S. officer on Okinawa. It affects all military personnel, dependents and Defense Department civilians on Okinawa and on Marine Corps Air Station Iwakuni and Camp Fuji in mainland Japan.

Under the order they are restricted to their bases, except for travel to their off-base homes, place of duty or employment, worship, education, or medical or dental treatment. All other activity outside the bases, such as shopping or frequenting off-base restaurants and clubs, is prohibited.

Local restaurants were particularly hard-hit.

“I’m standing in an almost empty parking lot,” one restaurant owner outside Camp Foster said Thursday. He asked not to be named.

“I want my customers to come back, and the last thing I want is to have my name connected to complaining about the restriction order,” the owner said. “What bothers me is that the military is punishing all Americans on the island for the acts of one or two stupid individuals.”

At 11:30 a.m., the time his American customers start to fill his tables, the restaurant was almost empty. “Fortunately, I have a good Okinawan clientele,” he said. “They just come a little later in the afternoon.”

[proudtobnotpc]

sweet jesus your in it for the long haul

[slickmetal]

seems the double edged blade is spreading its hurt...on both its sides.

Seems like they want us off the island, but want our business and money....

or

its business owners don't mind us, but other non-business owners and older generations that don't want us here anymore.

Monday, there will be a meeting with higher officials to discuss how things went over the weekend.

I am just glad the Okinawans are finally realizing how much they like or need our business here. Just imagine the housing agencies would react if had to leave OR we had to reside on base.....

Believe me, I want it to end just like anyone else...I just moved to a different off-base house, and my curtains are now too small :(

[Tanimaga]

I am not surprised!
But all the restriction is going to do is build up alot of steam that will eventually lead to a whole lot of tension and frustrations :thumbdown:

I agree..creating the monsters they are trying to imprison.

[DougP]

well the housing agencies are still getting their money for now. Since everyone is able to pay bills and such. But soon there wont be so many living off base over here. Right now its estimated there are over 5000 housing units being rented off base by SOFA personnel. I imagine that will drop over the next two years or so.

[DougP]

I agree..creating the monsters they are trying to imprison.

Very counter productive isnt it. That and my family and I usually shop off base and do most of our daily activities away from base so this is putting a strain on my family. So who is this order really hurting?

[proudtobnotpc]

well the housing agencies are still getting their money for now. Since everyone is able to pay bills and such. But soon there wont be so many living off base over here. Right now its estimated there are over 5000 housing units being rented off base by SOFA personnel. I imagine that will drop over the next two years or so.
yes but by that time the principal will already be paid off so they won't care how much they charge for rent:cursing:

[Tanimaga]

This is exactly why I am renting a new American style home, with all the trimmings for $800/mo. The previous mil. peeps were renting for $2600/mo.

The owner is tired of dealing with swapping renters every 3 months.

[DoctorP]

yes but by that time the principal will already be paid off so they won't care how much they charge for rent:cursing:

The average home here is paid off in ten years...if it is being rented to a gaijin.

[Tempestuous]

I am just glad the Okinawans are finally realizing how much they like or need our business here. Just imagine the housing agencies would react if had to leave OR we had to reside on base.....


Doesn't seem to be an agreed upon thought by many.
Nor does the sentiment last long.
Give it a couple weekend's the same shenanigans will kick back up and the b*tching mill will start running at full speed again.

Really mil is hated if they do & hated if they don't. Just can't "get right" .

[DougP]

This is exactly why I am renting a new American style home, with all the trimmings for $800/mo. The previous mil. peeps were renting for $2600/mo.

The owner is tired of dealing with swapping renters every 3 months.

My rents around 2700 a month and there are no local renters. In fact even though my wife went at first to set it all up they wouldnt rent it out to her any cheaper either. Theres maybe two other families living in our entire building. Its one hell of a place but as soon as the number of SOFA peeps renting off post decline I will try and talk them down on rent. Or move.:D

[DoctorP]

There is an apartment down the road from DocP, built about 5 years ago. Ten HUGE units...they've never rented more than 4 of them!

[slickmetal]

Doesn't seem to be an agreed upon thought by many.
Nor does the sentiment last long.
Give it a couple weekend's the same shenanigans will kick back up and the b*tching mill will start running at full speed again.

Really mil is hated if they do & hated if they don't. Just can't "get right" .

yep always room to bitch about something if your different. But one thing that is always in common, $$$.

Never miss nothing/something, until its gone.

So while they hold us out, they hold them out so they welcome us back to the local economy with open arms. Kinda glad for that part of this ordeal.

[Tanimaga]

My rents around 2700 a month and there are no local renters. In fact even though my wife went at first to set it all up they wouldnt rent it out to her any cheaper either. Theres maybe two other families living in our entire building. Its one hell of a place but as soon as the number of SOFA peeps renting off post decline I will try and talk them down on rent. Or move.:D


I waited and jumped on this one. Glad I did. The owner had 6 renters in the course of a year, and got tired of it. I'm here to stay..:thumbup1:
Big yard..5 car parking..5 foot fence all around to keep my molossers caged up..!

[DougP]

I waited and jumped on this one. Glad I did. The owner had 6 renters in the course of a year, and got tired of it. I'm here to stay..:thumbup1:
Big yard..5 car parking..5 foot fence all around to keep my molossers caged up..!

Im not worried about the price but I am one cheap SOB. So if I can get it for cheaper, Ill damn sure try.:D

[slickmetal]

My rents around 2700 a month and there are no local renters. In fact even though my wife went at first to set it all up they wouldnt rent it out to her any cheaper either. Theres maybe two other families living in our entire building. Its one hell of a place but as soon as the number of SOFA peeps renting off post decline I will try and talk them down on rent. Or move.:D

yeah thats about what I pay...and its an apartment...but rather big and only about 3 years old....my complex is also full now that I filled the last spot...and across the way you can tell the same owner as mine own it...and its all Locals....where my apartment has 6 units, that one has 12 or so...all 1K studios...and completely full...

I think its too much for an apartment, but now I dont have to worry about a yard, and trimming the jungle like I did before...water getting into the lawn mower cause Man Yi blew the provided shed away....and waaay less bugs and critters and geko droppings on everything.

but on topic, i bet this complex is not paid off yet....as the A side of my complex is much smaller apartments than my B side that I live in, thus there rent is probably much cheaper. The new Orchid Valley (Kitnaguskusan) that just opened up several brand new homes, huge homes in fact....that will take years to pay off I bet.

[proudtobnotpc]

The average home here is paid off in ten years...if it is being rented to a gaijin.
there are apt's by me that rent for 3,500/4,000 a month and are always full theres no way it takes 10 years

[DoctorP]

there are apt's by me that rent for 3,500/4,000 a month and are always full theres no way it takes 10 years

True, but all places don't rent for that much. Also, you have to take out the agency charge from that fee. You'd be surprised what some of these agencies are making.

Still, $3,500/month for 10 years is $420,000. If we are talking about a house, that is about right. I would imagine it's not too far off when talking about a new apartment building either. Also remember that usually before your place is 10 years old, there will be several other new places opening around you and that will make it harder for you to rent yours.

[Mad Hatter]

I was told by two people today that the punishment for dependents was deportation. One guy told me that three teenagers and a spouse dependent were found off base yesterday and they are being deported today. Another buddy told me that he went over to drop his car off to get JCI, and the guy that normally works there on the weekend was getting deported tomorrow. He said the reason was that he wasn't supposse to go there after his on base job, and he did anyways.

I hope you guys and gals be careful. I would hate to see anything like this happen to ya'll.

[elgringoloco]

The wild cry of the Okinawan people ain't changed since the 1960s.
"YANKEE, GO HOME, BUT KEEP SENDING US THEM U.S. DOLLARS"

[DoctorP]

I was told by two people today that the punishment for dependents was deportation. One guy told me that three teenagers and a spouse dependent were found off base yesterday and they are being deported today. Another buddy told me that he went over to drop his car off to get JCI, and the guy that normally works there on the weekend was getting deported tomorrow. He said the reason was that he wasn't supposse to go there after his on base job, and he did anyways.

I hope you guys and gals be careful. I would hate to see anything like this happen to ya'll.

Not doubting you MH...but it's hard to believe that in Japan (of all places) that they could process anything quick enough to get you off of this island in as little as two days...or are you referring to the military doing this?

[JimmyHoffalot]

This is just an economic embargo that will force the Japanese Government to control there corrupt and Liberal News Media. Move on to the next story, we all don't like what happend and all of us agree the guy is a complete idiot.

Expect lifitn of restrictions for Civilians first probably Monday then after next payday weekend you will see them put the Military on a Midnight curfew, then a month or two from now it will be back to normal.

[VWBOYAF1]

No way, let the lockdown last a whole month for EVERYBODY. It has to be long enough so that the pain is visable. A week or two of low sales will only show up on an accountant's computer. If it lasts a whole month you probably see shops close, and businesses protest to the government.

On the flip side, if the shops that depend on US personnel all close, the businesses that are left will not be affected by future embargos. So when the lockdown is over, make sure to spend a lot of money on the local economy. We will need to build their addiction back up.

[Asshat]

I just don't see the huge enonomic disaster. Sure a few buisnesses will fold in a month, but the people with the "voice" are not them, nor does anyone really care if a few businesses which cater to gaijin close up.

[watzitoou]

I was told by two people today that the punishment for dependents was deportation. One guy told me that three teenagers and a spouse dependent were found off base yesterday and they are being deported today. Another buddy told me that he went over to drop his car off to get JCI, and the guy that normally works there on the weekend was getting deported tomorrow. He said the reason was that he wasn't supposse to go there after his on base job, and he did anyways.

I hope you guys and gals be careful. I would hate to see anything like this happen to ya'll.

My Okinawan friend works with the japanese police and military, he calls me and tells me whats going on, and this lockdown is going to last longer than monday from incidents around town going on during lockdown. There have been "Y" plates at Mcdonalds, Starbucks, Coco's, etc.. I know you can lose command sponorship and debarment if caught.


EDIT: this info is from the military side he works with, he works on base.

[Asshat]

General Zilmer has not told anyone how long this will be for. He definitely has not mentioned anything to any police laison. Not if his Commanders don't know.

I am also seeing SOFA people out. Same old thing. A few jackasses screwing it up for the rest of us.

[Muku]

seems the double edged blade is spreading its hurt...on both its sides.

Seems like they want us off the island, but want our business and money....

or

its business owners don't mind us, but other non-business owners and older generations that don't want us here anymore.

Monday, there will be a meeting with higher officials to discuss how things went over the weekend.

I am just glad the Okinawans are finally realizing how much they like or need our business here. Just imagine the housing agencies would react if had to leave OR we had to reside on base.....

Believe me, I want it to end just like anyone else...I just moved to a different off-base house, and my curtains are now too small :(

Do us all a favor in the future and quit making sweeping generalizations about "the Okinawan's" this or "the Okinawan's" that. Be specific in who you are talking because when you make comments like this you really come across as if you have no damn idea what the actual situation is.:D

[Muku]

I know you can lose command sponorship and debarment if caught.

Damn I never knew that everyone in the US Military today was a lawyer now too....:-| When that happen?:rolleyes:

[okisteve]

My Okinawan friend works with the japanese police and military, he calls me and tells me whats going on, and this lockdown is going to last longer than monday from incidents around town going on during lockdown. There have been "Y" plates at Mcdonalds, Starbucks, Coco's, etc.. I know you can lose command sponorship and debarment if caught.

Addiction and prohibition leads to crime! I say legalize Starbucks coffee and tax the hell out of it!

[Asshat]

Addiction and prohibition leads to crime! I say legalize Starbucks coffee and tax the hell out of it!

Because sooner or later, it will be the War on Curry and we'll have to launch interdicition missions to spray malathion on curry leaves all over the world!

Legalize it I say! Stop creating a criminal caste! It grows naturally in the dirt for God's sake!

[DoctorP]

General Zilmer has not told anyone how long this will be for. He definitely has not mentioned anything to any police laison. Not if his Commanders don't know.

I am also seeing SOFA people out. Same old thing. A few jackasses screwing it up for the rest of us.

From talking to several people yesterday and last night...it seems as though the AF commander is being more lenient with the rules. I also saw people leaving the McD drive thru yesterday, and SB and the like...they actually believe that it is ok to do so.

[Fonze]

Do us all a favor in the future and quit making sweeping generalizations about "the Okinawan's" this or "the Okinawan's" that. Be specific in who you are talking because when you make comments like this you really come across as if you have no damn idea what the actual situation is.:D

Muku just like you made sweeping generalizations on the marines up north?:rolleyes:

On the base lockdown I think it should last a month to teach both sides a lesson. They should also tell the all ranks that they have a duty to correct another dumbasses actions and get them in trouble.

[socalheart]

golly, hope this lockdown doesn't last past 3/15, we have family visiting. heh. worse case scenario, we could hand them off to my mom to go site seeing. ha! LOL. when did it start... this last week right?

[icclearly]

This whole issue now is about politics and money. This so called "day of reflection" will give the local economy a time to reflect on how much money they are losing.

[dk]

This whole issue now is about politics and money. This so called "day of reflection" will give the local economy a time to reflect on how much money they are losing.
Yeah, all of Naha will probably go out of business. Really going to hurt the island.

[okisteve]

Yeah, all of Naha will probably go out of business. Really going to hurt the island.

And who really gives two sh*its about real estate speculators anyway?

[watzitoou]

From talking to several people yesterday and last night...it seems as though the AF commander is being more lenient with the rules. I also saw people leaving the McD drive thru yesterday, and SB and the like...they actually believe that it is ok to do so.


I posted what the 18th Mission Support Group, email I received up:
http://www.japanupdate.com/forum/showpost.php?p=65985&postcount=1

Other than that people are crazy to risk being caught, they may think its fun and what not, but they don't think what its going to do for everyone else!

[TheLastDon]

Wow, nobody on, everybody must be breaking restriction or shopping at the BX.

[hankypanky]

It really bothers me for those of you who are in lockdown to wish ill will to us that have to make a living on the economy. so what i cater to americans. Yes i have a bar, but my sales is karaoke, all ordered from the states, that is why i state having the largest selection on okinawa. So of course I cater to americans first. benn doing it for 10 years on island before i opened a joint.

Because those effected are not your friends or family, you relish the fact that businesses that cater to americans are having a very hard time. this protest is by those that cater to americans? Get your facts straight. those that protest have nothing to do with american bases!

Some out there think that businesses that cater to americans are a ripoff, some are, but americans still go there, why, because they are stupid? No because it is a service to them. be it that it is a bar, resturant, tug job joint. it is a service that is wanted by the american G.I. If your a vegitarian, do you protest over a steak house?

I was in the military before and had the comforts of base with a cushy salary. Never had to worry about feeding my family or when i was going to get paid. I live here because i love this island and the people. I just happen to have a business that caters to americans, not to rip them off, but provide a service. I understand the lockdown, but i don't understand those of you that wish businesses fold.

You might as well say you wish people go hungry and become homeless. that will not happen to me because i am resourseful and will find a way to feed my family. It's just sad that those of you who enjoy people suffering because you can not go to feed your face at an offbase establishment.

This post is more for my venting than a solution. It just makes me dislike american even more, because of the views of society now. You really can't see it till you get away and look from outside. No wonder other countries hope we die. America is slowing self-destructing and losing it's heart, which okinawa as a whole still has.:star:

[Boost]

Hank -

While I understand your frustration and wanting to vent, just understand that majority of the posters here that are posting such things are only doing the same. I think it is out of frustration that they are saying such things, not necessarily because you or anyone else that caters to Americans on Okinawa or doing anything wrong, or that they really want you to suffer.

Hopefully though, this lock down will make some who might have foolish thoughts of doing something stupid out in town, or think they can get away with such stupidity because they are in a foreign country, reconsider such thoughts.

It's my opinion that it is a privileged to get to visit foreign countries on Uncle Sam's dime, and it sure makes for some great stories to tell when you get back home to friends and family. Those of you out there, enjoy your time and for heaven's sake, represent yourself in a respectable manner!

[hankypanky]

Hank -

While I understand your frustration and wanting to vent, just understand that majority of the posters here that are posting such things are only doing the same. I think it is out of frustration that they are saying such things, not necessarily because you or anyone else that caters to Americans on Okinawa or doing anything wrong, or that they really want you to suffer.

Hopefully though, this lock down will make some who might have foolish thoughts of doing something stupid out in town, or think they can get away with such stupidity because they are in a foreign country, reconsider such thoughts.

It's my opinion that it is a privileged to get to visit foreign countries on Uncle Sam's dime, and it sure makes for some great stories to tell when you get back home to friends and family. Those of you out there, enjoy your time and for heaven's sake, represent yourself in a respectable manner!

But usually out of frustation, people's true feeling come out. you would never here these thoughts if they had 100% of liberty? It would be like if i said, keep em all on base, we don't want to see them driving in town!

That wouldn't go over very good, although when i was driving back to the club from chibana last night around 11 pm, it was alot more quieter and easier traffic on 58 without y plates!

but i did notice nashvilles was closed last night but chi-chi's was open:D

[Ammoyankee]

I just wish the gov't would get tired of it all and close all but one or two bases and get it over with. And then, people would have their wish!

[hankypanky]

I just wish the gov't would get tired of it all and close all but one or two bases and get it over with. And then, people would have their wish!

at least it would be a date, not just all of a sudden. but i have to go back to the 7 p's. prior proper planning prevents piss poor performance. but it's my hole and i'll dig myself out. not the first time. time for a drink.:D

[gunny8511]

"although when i was driving back to the club from chibana last night around 11 pm, it was alot more quieter and easier traffic on 58 without y plates!"


Hmmm...odd. It's usually the opposite for me late at night or early in the morning; lack of locals usually makes the drive faster and easier (except for the hordes exiting the bars at 0500 to go to work; careful not to run 'em over).

Lumping Americans into a single category reveals an emotional bias to your opinion; better to stick with logic. This "lockdown" is not hurting military personnel. We all still have access to all on-base services, and are only inconvenienced by the lack of access to off-base services. I wish no ill will toward American business owners, nor Okinawan. I do hope that the message gets through loud and clear to all of the "Americans go home" types. You know the ones...those that have to hire protesters to stand outside our gates.

File this one under: "Be careful what you wish for."

[Oki Cajun]

Who cares how long they keep the boycott ? Okinawa has nothing going for it anyway. They need us more than we need them and the only reason they are getting all this attention is because the National Gov't is tired of hearing their bitching about WW2.

[Oki Cajun]

This post is more for my venting than a solution. It just makes me dislike american even more, because of the views of society now. You really can't see it till you get away and look from outside. No wonder other countries hope we die. America is slowing self-destructing and losing it's heart, which okinawa as a whole still has.:star:

Hank, first of all, your place is great. Your customer service is impeccable, your selection of karaoke is awesome, and your bar is a very, very, very nice place to hang out. I've been a few times and I really like it. I don't now, or have at any time, wished you any will ill, and I hope you are able to continue being a great success. If anything in any of my posts reflect anything other than that, it's purely unintentional. My beef is solely with Okinawa, it's people and it's politics. With that said....

Where is Okinawa's heart ? One person screws up and now everyone is a rapist. You are suffering, people like me who go out in town suffer, and it's because they found their opportunity to make a mountain out of a molehill again. I really don't know who's fault this is really, because Okinawa should be the example of how to get along, being that it's so small and American and Okinawan life is so intertwined here. Wasn't the SOFA agreement designed to handle these kinds of situations ? A SOFA member commits a crime, and they are subject to Japanese law. What else do they want ? The attitude of the Okinawan gov't (notice I didn't say Japanese gov't) that we got what we deserve makes me sick too. They are "pleased" with the strictness ? Who cares ? Okinawa is a gnat on the ass of humanity. They should consider themselves lucky that they are even part of Japan. Most of us have never committed a crime and are a million times more educated than 90% of the local population, yet we will all be looked down upon and frowned at as a potential rapists ? This is the only time in any of their lives where they will have that kind of satisfaction from me, I just hope they relish every minute of it.

[Black Orchid]

sooo.. if i go off base they will send me home immediately? hmmm and i was getting the run around with an ERD and stuff... * behave Black O behave.....*

[Muku]

Wasn't the SOFA agreement designed to handle these kinds of situations ? A SOFA member commits a crime, and they are subject to Japanese law.

Key words here.....SOFA commits a crime....that's the problem, 100%, nothing more, nothing less.

If you understand that, then the rest is truly simple to understand.


Edited to add here......

Ever hear of "zero" tolerance? That is what the people protesting are after.

Is that so unreasonable to expect from a guest?:rolleyes:

[okisteve]

Where is Okinawa's heart ? One person screws up and now everyone is a rapist. You are suffering, people like me who go out in town suffer, and it's because they found their opportunity to make a mountain out of a molehill again. I really don't know who's fault this is really, because Okinawa should be the example of how to get along, being that it's so small and American and Okinawan life is so intertwined here. Wasn't the SOFA agreement designed to handle these kinds of situations ? A SOFA member commits a crime, and they are subject to Japanese law. What else do they want ? The attitude of the Okinawan gov't (notice I didn't say Japanese gov't) that we got what we deserve makes me sick too. They are "pleased" with the strictness ? Who cares ? Okinawa is a gnat on the ass of humanity. They should consider themselves lucky that they are even part of Japan. Most of us have never committed a crime and are a million times more educated than 90% of the local population, yet we will all be looked down upon and frowned at as a potential rapists ? This is the only time in any of their lives where they will have that kind of satisfaction from me, I just hope they relish every minute of it.

Exactly! I mean exactly why you need to be kept locked down or sent home.

[Oki Cajun]

Key words here.....SOFA commits a crime....that's the problem, 100%, nothing more, nothing less.

Then someone needs to just abolish it. I think the SOFA agreement is more than fair, and another problem is Okinawan's probably don't really understand the full scope of it. I could understand all this venom towards us if the guy raped the chick, then came on base as a safe haven, and nothing was done to him. But the thing is, they have the full power of their law to prosecute him. That is way MORE than reasonable. Anything else is to get attention and relish our leaders kowtowing to these country bumpkins who walk their bulls like dogs.

[Muku]

Then someone needs to just abolish it. I think the SOFA agreement is more than fair, and another problem is Okinawan's probably don't really understand the full scope of it. I could understand all this venom towards us if the guy raped the chick, then came on base as a safe haven, and nothing was done to him. But the thing is, they have the full power of their law to prosecute him. That is way MORE than reasonable. Anything else is to get attention and relish our leaders kowtowing to these country bumpkins who walk their bulls like dogs.
You know what, I apologize here first off, but you dont seem to get it.

It isnt the full power of the law, that's got nothing to do with it, using that as an argument assumes the presumption that someone in the military here WILL commit a crime.

If I was a guest in your house, would you presume that I am coming there to commit a crime? I'll bet any money if you felt that way you wouldnt invite me in the first place right?

THe US military are guests here in Japan, yes invited guests but still guests.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

It is true. Guests are held to a higher standard. It doesn't matter how many times the Okinawans have "peed in the shower" in their own home, if the military tries the same stunt, even one time is too many...

[nipponliving]

I guess Oki Cajun is the type that comes to your house, scratches his nuts, farts out load and says “what? I’m the guest. You should be honored I’m here!” Okinawa doesn’t need people like you. You give us American’s a bad name. When do you DEROS? I hope soon.

[dk]

Is that so unreasonable to expect from a guest?:rolleyes:
I keep hearing the term "guest" thrown around. Are we really even a guest here? Did Okinawa invite us? Or were we sort of thrust upon them by the rest of Japan? The bases on mainland Japan are guests to Japan. This heavy concentration of bases on such a small island is something altogether different, in my opinion.

What would be the more fitting term. Roommates? Co-workers?

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Cellmates?

[Oki Cajun]

I guess Oki Cajun is the type that comes to your house, scratches his nuts, farts out load and says “what? I’m the guest. You should be honored I’m here!” Okinawa doesn’t need people like you. You give us American’s a bad name. When do you DEROS? I hope soon.

No dum dum I don't. The guy commits a crime, he is subject to Japanese law. What else can be done ? He is subject to all Japanese law and not protected or harbored in any way by the U.S. or the bases. Thats all I'm saying. I understand the guest thing, but when the dust settles, the main issue is how it's prosecuted.

[dk]

Cellmates?
That's probably closer than guests.

[okisteve]

I keep hearing the term "guest" thrown around. Are we really even a guest here? Did Okinawa invite us? Or were we sort of thrust upon them by the rest of Japan? The bases on mainland Japan are guests to Japan. This heavy concentration of bases on such a small island is something altogether different, in my opinion.

What would be the more fitting term. Roommates? Co-workers?

How about Inlaws who came for dinner and stayed 60 years?:crying:

[dk]

How about Inlaws who came for dinner and stayed 60 years?:crying:
Hahaha... That's another good one. :thumbup:

[nipponliving]

I was just typing almost the same thing okisteve. I was going the way of John Candy as the Uncle that wouldn't leave.

[nipponliving]

Hey Hank…If this “lock down” continues for more that let’s say a week or two, I’d hope that Japanese businesses that continue loose money (i.e. restaurants, auto repair shops, clothing stores and other retail outlets) stand up to the folks that want the military out ASAP. I know the bar association (I can’t remember the real name) did so last time but it’d be better if it came from others as well.

I’m not saying the military should be here forever. I’m just getting tired of the squeaky wheels getting the press and the others remaining silent. I know of MANY who always say great things about the military here. Yes, mostly because it brings them money. I’d love to see them clash a bit with the protesters or AT LEAST complain to the US government about this freaking lockdown. After awhile THEY will join the protesters if they can’t pay their rent. Money talks.

Hang in there Hank sama…I don’t usually go to American bars like yours but I will as soon as I’m “released” and I’ll buy you a beer!

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Uncle Buck?

[nipponliving]

That's it!

[KumaNoPooh]

Hum!!! I wonder if this "base Lockdown Trash" or "Dick Zilmers Internment Camp" would happen at perhaps a state side base. Just wondering. I hope this goes past Monday because I have about four months of paid sick leave I need to use.

[slickmetal]

Do us all a favor in the future and quit making sweeping generalizations about "the Okinawan's" this or "the Okinawan's" that. Be specific in who you are talking because when you make comments like this you really come across as if you have no damn idea what the actual situation is.:D

ok, then I will use the loosely used term "LOCALS" then.

admist the "sweeping generalizations" going on about ALL AMERICANS on this island in the recent weeks....

and believe me, I know what the actual situation is.

This is far from being locked down...try being in Turkey @ 9/11 and I was locked down from September 2001 to April 2002, only because I PCS'd.

So your generalization of me not knowing whats going on is just nonsense.

[Muku]

I keep hearing the term "guest" thrown around. Are we really even a guest here? Did Okinawa invite us? Or were we sort of thrust upon them by the rest of Japan? The bases on mainland Japan are guests to Japan. This heavy concentration of bases on such a small island is something altogether different, in my opinion.

What would be the more fitting term. Roommates? Co-workers?
I use the term figuratively, however if I remember correctly when there is a newcomers brief here the incoming military personnel are told that they are guests in this country.

I wonder if that has changed.

[TheLastDon]

It's still the same Muku.

[Muku]

This is far from being locked down...try being in Turkey @ 9/11 and I was locked down from September 2001 to April 2002, only because I PCS'd.

So your generalization of me not knowing whats going on is just nonsense.

What the hell does Turkey have to do with Okinawa? Hmmmm

Let's go back to what I was quoting from you....Who is "they" in the "they" want us off the island?

What other non-business owners and older generations dont want US here anymore.

Umm What Okinawan's do you refer to when you say they are finally realizing they like or need your business?







Seems like they want us off the island, but want our business and money....

or

its business owners don't mind us, but other non-business owners and older generations that don't want us here anymore.
Monday, there will be a meeting with higher officials to discuss how things went over the weekend.

I am just glad the Okinawans are finally realizing how much they like or need our business here. Just imagine the housing agencies would react if had to leave OR we had to reside on base.....

admist the "sweeping generalizations" going on about ALL AMERICANS on this island in the recent weeks....

Oh so one wrong makes another one right? Dont think so.

ok, then I will use the loosely used term "LOCALS" then.

Really? Kind of funny here, but you dont know why do you?
I am a local too. But you dont get the humor in it do you?

and believe me, I know what the actual situation is.

Sorry but I have a hard time believing you here, particularly after what you wrote. You may believe it yourself and that's fine with me, yet you are making sweeping generalizations about quite a few things that are wrong.

[slickmetal]

What the hell does Turkey have to do with Okinawa? Hmmmm

Let's go back to what I was quoting from you....Who is "they" in the "they" want us off the island?

What other non-business owners and older generations dont want US here anymore.

Umm What Okinawan's do you refer to when you say they are finally realizing they like or need your business?











Oh so one wrong makes another one right? Dont think so.


Really? Kind of funny here, but you dont know why do you?
I am a local too. But you dont get the humor in it do you?


Sorry but I have a hard time believing you here, particularly after what you wrote. You may believe it yourself and that's fine with me, yet you are making sweeping generalizations about quite a few things that are wrong.


There is no humor in anything that is going on. Everything that is going on hurts everyone, so we deal with it...but as of late, you seem to only want to deal with it on this message board on your high horse.

BUT

I do hope the "LOCAL OKINAWAN BUSINESS OWNERS THAT CATER TO AMERICAN SHOPPERS" suffer a little, so they can tell the "LOCAL OKINAWAN MEDIA (whom is a big blame for alot of whats going on)" that they appreciate us Americans, so the "LOCAL OKINAWAN MEDIA" can report the suffering from the lack of income, and the "LOCAL OKINAWAN PEOPLE" will then again have open arms for us again....especially when and if the SSgt is found not really raping anyone.


So I hope I was more clear now, and this is not a generalization. Deep down we know this is going on WITHIN the rape outrage. But the lockdown has many motives, that I don't think you see.

I'm done arguing with you, because your not open to what we have to say rather just bent on defending your own....if you want to talk about this more in the future, PM me.

[P_chan]

and the "LOCAL OKINAWAN PEOPLE" will then again have open arms for us again

When did they close their arms to us? You said yourself that the media is partly to blame correct? We'll their only showing you what the anti base types are saying. Which defiantly isn't the average okinawan.

[Muku]

I do hope the "LOCAL OKINAWAN BUSINESS OWNERS THAT CATER TO AMERICAN SHOPPERS" suffer a little, so they can tell the "LOCAL OKINAWAN MEDIA (whom is a big blame for alot of whats going on)" that they appreciate us Americans, so the "LOCAL OKINAWAN MEDIA" can report the suffering from the lack of income, and the "LOCAL OKINAWAN PEOPLE" will then again have open arms for us again....especially when and if the SSgt is found not really raping anyone.

If you knew about the local business that cater to the bases and if you knew about the media here, you would already know that this has happened. Hmmm....think about that.

Part two; Why expect a love fest? The open arms statement to me is rather naive, particularly considering that the bases here account for a small percentage of the economy. Dont start thinking please that Okinawa wont survive without the bases, it will. The American bases here are not the "saviors" of Okinawa.

Whether he actually raped the girl or not isnt the point, try to understand that ok.

So I hope I was more clear now, and this is not a generalization. Deep down we know this is going on WITHIN the rape outrage. But the lockdown has many motives, that I don't think you see.

I dont see? Hmmm I think you dont see something, that I am more attune towhat's happening here that you seem to know. . You have A general on one side that is bending over backwards to appease the host nation and trying to improve it's image, and image btw that is made or broke by the media. Whether entirely true or not. And on the otherside a skeptical media that believes that the US Military can not control it's own people to do the right thing.

It's all friggin politics. That's all....and everyone gets caught in the middle.


I'm done arguing with you, because your not open to what we have to say rather just bent on defending your own....if you want to talk about this more in the future, PM me

Sure there is humor here, a bit of black humor right now, defending my own you say?

Then I am defending you as well. Dont expect any PM's about this, because there are issues here that others on the board can add to as well, and should be shared.

There is no humor in anything that is going on. Everything that is going on hurts everyone, so we deal with it...but as of late, you seem to only want to deal with it on this message board on your high horse.
You have any suggestions on other ways to deal with this? This is one good way, to help you dispell your misconceptions about what's going on here. Helping to educate people about that is pretty damn important I think, expecially in regards to community relations.

[katyp1203]

The lockdown is ridiculous to say the least especially where spouses and children are concerned.

The military stations FAMILIES overseas away from family and the quality of life that they are accustomed to and we do not complain. We embrace it and do our duty by supporting our active duty spouses in every way that we can. We have not broken the law nor have our children. We come here and we try to find a new way of life and do our best flourish in it. We become accustomed to a certain quality of life and then in a moments notice we are treated like wrong doers and PUNISHED for acts that have nothing to do with us or our children. Sure, go ahead and lockdown the service members. That is the way it is. They are brothers/sisters and unfortunately in the military the "team" feels the wrath of the mistakes of their counterparts. The service members signed the dotted line to serve and to be subject to whatever came along with that commitment. I DID NOT. I am not a service member. I do not wear a uniform nor do my children. Therefore I do not appreciate being told what to do and when to do it by some hierarchy of officers who are only concerned with politics and what they need to do to save face and their asses becauase they have not done what was necessary to keep such things as this from happening!

[watzitoou]

The lockdown is ridiculous to say the least especially where spouses and children are concerned.

The military stations FAMILIES overseas away from family and the quality of life that they are accustomed to and we do not complain. We embrace it and do our duty by supporting our active duty spouses in every way that we can. We have not broken the law nor have our children. We come here and we try to find a new way of life and do our best flourish in it. We become accustomed to a certain quality of life and then in a moments notice we are treated like wrong doers and PUNISHED for acts that have nothing to do with us or our children. Sure, go ahead and lockdown the service members. That is the way it is. They are brothers/sisters and unfortunately in the military the "team" feels the wrath of the mistakes of their counterparts. The service members signed the dotted line to serve and to be subject to whatever came along with that commitment. I DID NOT. I am not a service member. I do not wear a uniform nor do my children. Therefore I do not appreciate being told what to do and when to do it by some hierarchy of officers who are only concerned with politics and what they need to do to save face and their asses becauase they have not done what was necessary to keep such things as this from happening!

Eventho you aren't military, when you married your spouse and that person was in the military. Thats when you married the military, you have to accept the orders given. When your spouse is deployed or PSC's do you accept them? You are a military spouse, even your dependents have to follow the rules, laws, and orders from the Military.

My little kids don't understand why they can't see their friends and play, go shopping. Why we can't do the things we always do off base. My little one's scream their lungs out daily telling me whe have to go see Miyuki and her family, we need to go here and there. Its hard telling them sorry we can't go, we have to stay on base. Since the lockdown, we can't go off base, but my Okinawan friends do my grocery shopping for me, pick up my special orders that I get 2 times a month from Jusco, buy bakery goodies every 2-3 days and bring it to me at the gate.

[socalheart]

:rolleyes: Of course we know what we married into and accept it. It doesn't mean that we agree or like it. I don't like when my husband is deployed. I don't like being on lockdown because someone I have no association with acts like a criminal.

:thumbup: I agree with katyp1203. I'm not saying that she's right or wrong, because it's her feelings that she's sharing with us. She isn't telling us to feel the same way or that we're wrong for not feeling the same way. I think that certain people need to get off their high horses and refrain from chastizing those of us who disagree with them as if they're better than us.

Eventho you aren't military, when you married your spouse and that person was in the military. Thats when you married the military, you have to accept the orders given. When your spouse is deployed or PSC's do you accept them? You are a military spouse, even your dependents have to follow the rules, laws, and orders from the Military.

[thinkb4uspeak]

The lockdown is ridiculous to say the least especially where spouses and children are concerned.

The military stations FAMILIES overseas away from family and the quality of life that they are accustomed to and we do not complain. We embrace it and do our duty by supporting our active duty spouses in every way that we can. We have not broken the law nor have our children. We come here and we try to find a new way of life and do our best flourish in it. We become accustomed to a certain quality of life and then in a moments notice we are treated like wrong doers and PUNISHED for acts that have nothing to do with us or our children. Sure, go ahead and lockdown the service members. That is the way it is. They are brothers/sisters and unfortunately in the military the "team" feels the wrath of the mistakes of their counterparts. The service members signed the dotted line to serve and to be subject to whatever came along with that commitment. I DID NOT. I am not a service member. I do not wear a uniform nor do my children. Therefore I do not appreciate being told what to do and when to do it by some hierarchy of officers who are only concerned with politics and what they need to do to save face and their asses becauase they have not done what was necessary to keep such things as this from happening!



Well you did join the service when you said I do to your spouse. We are held to the same standards when living overseas as the active duty members. That is part of life as a dep.

[thinkb4uspeak]

:rolleyes: Of course we know what we married into and accept it. It doesn't mean that we agree or like it. I don't like when my husband is deployed. I don't like being on lockdown because someone I have no association with acts like a criminal.

:thumbup: I agree with katyp1203. I'm not saying that she's right or wrong, because it's her feelings that she's sharing with us. She isn't telling us to feel the same way or that we're wrong for not feeling the same way. I think that certain people need to get off their high horses and refrain from chastizing those of us who disagree with them as if they're better than us.


I do't see where she was chastied, and I simply stated that as a dep we are held to the same standard as active duty when overseas.

[Crazysix]

OK . now Dependants are feeling it also, everytime we go on lock down "everybody" is affected. There is no right or wrong, just do as ordered and you will be fine. I really hate to tell you this but as dependant, you can always leave the island and have you hubby amend his tour, this aint going away no time soon. Good luck ladies and hunker down, to me this like being on an LF6F.

[DougP]

Keep hearing rumors this rock down may extend past the next military pay day.:(

[Crazysix]

thats cool with me, just saving money untiil the post lock down party

[slickmetal]

thats cool with me, just saving money untiil the post lock down party

I hear that!! I just moved from off-base place to another off-base place..kinda pricey ATM - but my flood gates will open to buy curtains, since my old ones are not the right sizes.

[Crazysix]

see thats smart, POsitve attitude

[slickmetal]

see thats smart, POsitve attitude

its always positive right now...I've been locked down far worse than this..so when it gets as bad as it was in Turkey then I'll start to feel a bit more bad about it all.

[DougP]

Now that I have a new monitor and a bbq grill I'm set to ride out this period of retardation.:D 4 basic needs of food-beer-sex and internet have been met.:first::thumbup:

[katyp1203]

I would be more than happy to return to the states at the expense of the military!

[katyp1203]

Some of you other spouses may be "Yes Woman" but I am not. You can say in regards to my last post that I married the miliatry when I married my husband if you want to but I disagree. This lockdown does not serve the purpose of serving our country. Anything that my husband has to do in order to serve his country I am all for and will support. But this I do not support and will not be a silent spouse. I have rights and I will not have them trampled on. I say to the military spend the thousands of dollars to send me back to the states, that is fine with me!

[Crazysix]

I told you how to go, tell the hubby I want to leave and amend your tour.

[Crazysix]

Some of you other spouses may be "Yes Woman" but I am not. You can say in regards to my last post that I married the miliatry when I married my husband if you want to but I disagree. This lockdown does not serve the purpose of serving our country. Anything that my husband has to do in order to serve his country I am all for and will support. But this I do not support and will not be a silent spouse. I have rights and I will not have them trampled on. I say to the military spend the thousands of dollars to send me back to the states, that is fine with me!
rights ha" if the military wanted you to have a wife they would have issued you one"- Gysgt @SOI
your are subject to the same rules as he is overseas, leave its easy, but whether you support this or not you will obey it and please dont be stupid and call your hubbys co to cry, it will only make things harder on him:army::army:

[Oki Cajun]

Some of you other spouses may be "Yes Woman" but I am not. You can say in regards to my last post that I married the miliatry when I married my husband if you want to but I disagree. This lockdown does not serve the purpose of serving our country. Anything that my husband has to do in order to serve his country I am all for and will support. But this I do not support and will not be a silent spouse. I have rights and I will not have them trampled on. I say to the military spend the thousands of dollars to send me back to the states, that is fine with me!

Basically you have to understand the situation from the higher ups position. The Marine General who made the call didn't do so just on a whim. He has the U.S. gov't yelling at him in one ear, saying WHAT THE HELL and then in the other the Okinawans yelling NANI O SHIMASU KA ?????? So when faced with two opposing what the hells, he has to make a decision, and a decision that will show we are serious, and something unprecedented, because the other solutions haven't worked in the past. Thus, here we are. The problem is bigger than our rights, it's making sure we aren't kicked out of Okinawa because of it's strategic location. This situation is like a crystal prism triangle; many complicated sides and issues that many of us aren't even aware of. If this was an island off the coast of Alaska, it wouldn't be an issue, but based on where it's at, its paramount on the leadership that we don't lose this. No one likes it, least of all me. That may or may not help, but it should be at least comforting that the true intent isn't to individually punish people, but to take a step back and hopefully allow people to regain reasonable perspective.

[Muku]

The problem is bigger than our rights,

Just out of curiosity here, why do you think it is a right of yours or any of the other military people here to be able to freely travel on and off base?

Isnt it a priviledge? This isnt the US Of A as you know, it's Japan.

[Tony Stacks]

Just out of curiosity here, why do you think it is a right of yours or any of the other military people here to be able to freely travel on and off base?

Isnt it a priviledge? This isnt the US Of A as you know, it's Japan.

Well it is inhumane to lock them on base for the duration of a tour. When you and I were in we got to enjoy town and now others may loose that oppurtunity for the actions of a few shitbirds.

[slickmetal]

Just out of curiosity here, why do you think it is a right of yours or any of the other military people here to be able to freely travel on and off base?

Isnt it a priviledge? This isnt the US Of A as you know, it's Japan.

thats why my non-official US of A Passport is stamped when I entered.

[P_chan]

thats why my non-official US of A Passport is stamped when I entered.


I'm fairly certain that passports don't allow you to stay in country for two years.

[Crazysix]

What about our brothers at gitmo???they dont travel freely through CUBA,(before you start I know the reason why) I couldnt help myself

[Tony Stacks]

What about our brothers at gitmo???they dont travel freely through CUBA,(before you start I know the reason why) I couldnt help myself


Yea but they get paid more and it's a little different.

[slickmetal]

Well it is inhumane to lock them on base for the duration of a tour. When you and I were in we got to enjoy town and now others may loose that oppurtunity for the actions of a few shitbirds.

Yeah aint that the truth...

This is not just a military "person" thing either.....civilians and dependents, etc can cause just as much trouble as any military person as well. Would be real bad right now if your spouse or child etc was out causing trouble out in town right now.... all the mil person could say was "I was unable to be there with them, because I was restricted" Then the mil person gets reprimanded for the actions of the spouse child etc actions...

[Muku]

Well it is inhumane to lock them on base for the duration of a tour. When you and I were in we got to enjoy town and now others may loose that oppurtunity for the actions of a few shitbirds.
Tony is it really inhumane? Geez if that's the case then are the guys stationed in Guantanamo subject to inhumane treatment because they cant travel off base?

I understand what you are saying, however it isnt a right for them nor their families either. It is a privledge, and I dont think the military has changed that much but many personal "rights" are left at the door the minute anyone signs the contract to join the military. The general has the "right" to withhold these priveledges anytime he chooses, and I dont think he made this decision this time on a whim either, he has got to know the problems it would cause and is cousing in the ranks. Top to bottom.

If people really dont like having someone have that kind of control over them they should never have joined the military in the first place. It really is that simple.

Even when I was in the military I can recall plenty of times that going off base for liberty was restricted for any number of reasons. Oh and that wasnt just here either that was in the states as well.

Sure people bitched about it, but then when has NOT bitching been a part of life in the military?

[Tony Stacks]

Tony is it really inhumane? Geez if that's the case then are the guys stationed in Guantanamo subject to inhumane treatment because they cant travel off base?

I understand what you are saying, however it isnt a right for them nor their families either. It is a privledge, and I dont think the military has changed that much but many personal "rights" are left at the door the minute anyone signs the contract to join the military. The general has the "right" to withhold these priveledges anytime he chooses, and I dont think he made this decision this time on a whim either, he has got to know the problems it would cause and is cousing in the ranks. Top to bottom.

If people really dont like having someone have that kind of control over them they should never have joined the military in the first place. It really is that simple.

Even when I was in the military I can recall plenty of times that going off base for liberty was restricted for any number of reasons. Oh and that wasnt just here either that was in the states as well.

Sure people bitched about it, but then when has NOT bitching been a part of life in the military?


I agree with you but it does suck. Of course liberty has been restricted before and will again. It's just ashame.

[Muku]

I agree with you but it does suck. Of course liberty has been restricted before and will again. It's just ashame.

I agree it sucks, and it is a shame. What other option did the General really have in this situation? I mean hell he had everyone in a standown, lectured and then I bet he prayed that nothing would happen.

But something did, and now here we are today.

[Tony Stacks]

I agree it sucks, and it is a shame. What other option did the General really have in this situation? I mean hell he had everyone in a standown, lectured and then I bet he prayed that nothing would happen.

But something did, and now here we are today.

They need to bring hazing back.

[Muku]

They need to bring hazing back.
I agree, but who are you going to haze after the fact?

[Oki Cajun]

Just out of curiosity here, why do you think it is a right of yours or any of the other military people here to be able to freely travel on and off base?

Isnt it a priviledge? This isnt the US Of A as you know, it's Japan.

Yes, in many ways it is a privilege, but we are able to do so because of the SOFA. Both sides outlined what is acceptable and legal on both sides of it, they came to agreement, and thus we are allowed on and off base, here, because sponsored by that agreement. Anything else and you are subject to the rules commiserate with your status, i.e. resident alien, working visa etc. If that wasn't in place, then we wouldn't be able to; we'd have the same rights as resident aliens. I love how you haven't agreed with much, and just keep playing the devils advocate. You act like you are some kind of freedom fighter for the Okinawans. You know why people have the issues with the current situation, but you keep talking down to people as if no one else has lived here or elsewhere in Japan. Your not doing anyone any favors either pro or con for this issue except yourself.

[slickmetal]

Yes, in many ways it is a privilege, but we are able to do so because of the SOFA. Both sides outlined what is acceptable and legal on both sides of it, they came to agreement, and thus we are allowed on and off base, here, because sponsored by that agreement. Anything else and you are subject to the rules commiserate with your status, i.e. resident alien, working visa etc. If that wasn't in place, then we wouldn't be able to; we'd have the same rights as resident aliens. I love how you haven't agreed with much, and just keep playing the devils advocate. You act like you are some kind of freedom fighter for the Okinawans. You know why people have the issues with the current situation, but you keep talking down to people as if no one else has lived here or elsewhere in Japan. Your not doing anyone any favors either pro or con for this issue except yourself.

yeah, i mentioned this earlier as I saw it like you are now too...I then told the person I was done with it and the high horse they stood on and told them to PM me for further discussion, and they were ignorant. Just seems they are on the defensive - and this is how every human acts i guess when they are put on the defensive...but the person has the right to be, just like we do right now. I now find it comical.

[Jrocka83]

I am kind of enjoying this right now, more money is being put into the base and less out in town. I lived in Mainland, and the services and attitudes here are a notch or two down. I miss mainland. But it baffles me, how most of the protesters come from mainland:-|. I feel a lot more segrigated and discriminated down here.. I can't wait to go back to KyuShu. Ahh, I can taste the freedom already. I raely hope we get kicked out of Okinawa.. No, really.:w00t:

[DougP]

Just out of curiosity here, why do you think it is a right of yours or any of the other military people here to be able to freely travel on and off base?

Isnt it a priviledge? This isnt the US Of A as you know, it's Japan.

As a human being, it is everyone's right to free travel. Naturally we should be free to move about as we please. Unfortunately for us there are discriminant laws, dictators, slavery and so forth which throw a wrench into the gears of freedom. I'm one of those buggers who believes in a world without borders anyway.. remember when I say the only race I recognize is the human race? Well the same goes in this situation. Granted the Okinawans were here first but that doesn't give them or anyone the right to treat other nationalities and races like lesser forms of life. Why should one human being have more right to move freely than another law abiding human being?

[Muku]

As a human being, it is everyone's right to free travel. Naturally we should be free to move about as we please. Unfortunately for us there are discriminant laws, dictators, slavery and so forth which throw a wrench into the gears of freedom. I'm one of those buggers who believes in a world without borders anyway.. remember when I say the only race I recognize is the human race? Well the same goes in this situation. Granted the Okinawans were here first but that doesn't give them or anyone the right to treat other nationalities and races like lesser forms of life.
Doug theoretically I agree, however things as you know are not that simple. I would agrue that there are more Americans that treat other peoples and races as lesser forms of life than the Okinawan's. Hell just look at US history.

This isnt a debate about one being better than the other, at least so far that's now how I have read it. I will say though that it is rather easy to get the impression that there are those here that think that the rights that they have as Americans were carried over here with them when they got off the airplane. You as well as I know that isnt true. You also know as I do that the SOFA was negotiated to help protect Americans here in a foreign land.

Lastly you also know that "rights" are not the same for people in the military or their dependants while they are living in an overseas location such as Japan. They are subject to the whims and desires of the officers appointed over them. And as long as those orders are not illegal the only choices people have is either to obey the orders, get out, or face the consequences of breaking those orders.


Why should one human being have more right to move freely than another law abiding human being
You were military right? I am sure you know the answer to this one.:D

[DougP]

I see what you're saying now Muku. You're calling it like it is. And you are spot on. That's the current state of affairs and I wish it would change.

[Muku]

Yes, in many ways it is a privilege, but we are able to do so because of the SOFA. Both sides outlined what is acceptable and legal on both sides of it, they came to agreement, and thus we are allowed on and off base, here, because sponsored by that agreement. Anything else and you are subject to the rules commiserate with your status, i.e. resident alien, working visa etc. If that wasn't in place, then we wouldn't be able to; we'd have the same rights as resident aliens. I love how you haven't agreed with much, and just keep playing the devils advocate. You act like you are some kind of freedom fighter for the Okinawans. You know why people have the issues with the current situation, but you keep talking down to people as if no one else has lived here or elsewhere in Japan. Your not doing anyone any favors either pro or con for this issue except yourself.
Show me in the SOFA agreement where it says that you have the "right" to travel on and off base with impunity?

Sorry I missed something here.... Just because I dont agree with your way of thinking does not mean that I was talking down to you or anyone else here.

Of course I know why people have issues with the current situation, just quit trying to blame the Okinawans for the one you are in now. It isnt their fault that an American or let's be more specific here Americans committed crimes against them. Get that part stright please.

You want to discuss Okinawa and American base issues then great start another thread and I will be happy to share with you my feelings from both sides of the fence. :D

[Muku]

I see what you're saying now Muku. You're calling it like it is. And you are spot on. That's the current state of affairs and I wish it would change.

I agree as well that it should be changed, and I truly feel bad for the 99.99% of the people that do nothing wrong either on or off base.

But to be brutally honest here it isnt the Okinawan's fault that this lockdown occured. I wish that people would accept that.

[Oki Cajun]

I agree as well that it should be changed, and I truly feel bad for the 99.99% of the people that do nothing wrong either on or off base.

But to be brutally honest here it isnt the Okinawan's fault that this lockdown occured. I wish that people would accept that.

I am curious to know if you have lived in any other part of Japan. Also, how long have you been in Okinawa ? And do you read, write or speak Japanese ? And you are an American citizen right ?

[DougP]

I agree as well that it should be changed, and I truly feel bad for the 99.99% of the people that do nothing wrong either on or off base.

But to be brutally honest here it isnt the Okinawan's fault that this lockdown occured. I wish that people would accept that.

agreed. unfortunately I knew ahead of time a lock down would foster these kind of feelings. This is no way to mend two communities or raise awareness of other cultures. It will have negative affects and doubt it will do anything more than give the Okinawans some time away from us.:)

[Muku]

I am curious to know if you have lived in any other part of Japan. Also, how long have you been in Okinawa ? And do you read, write or speak Japanese ? And you are an American citizen right ?
I read, and write Japanese with the aid of my keyboard, however verbally.....I speak Japanese, now then I am not a fair judge so I will let others here that "know" tell you how well I do or do not speak the language, if they so choose to.

I have been here well over 20 years and while I have not lived in mainlaind for any length of time I have travelled enough of it to know it pretty well, thanks in a large part to a former employer.

Yes I am an American citizen, and proud of it as well.:D Oh and I am also a former Marine as well. Semper Fi!

[Muku]

agreed. unfortunately I knew ahead of time a lock down would foster these kind of feelings. This is no way to mend two communities or raise awareness of other cultures. It will have negative affects and doubt it will do anything more than give the Okinawans some time away from us.:)

I dont know if I would go as far as to say no way, however as I wrote in another thread Here's a suggestion for the Military about this recent incident..... (http://www.japanupdate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3804&highlight=suggestions). I believe that there are ways if everyone would stop pointing fingers, including the Japanese as well and work towards an reasonable solution.

[Oki Cajun]

Ok, fair enough. I couldn't figure out where your point of view was coming from, but now I get it. You came off as you were actually Japanese or Okinawan at first. But if you haven't actually lived on the mainland, then you don't know what its like to go from that environment to realize how archaic the rules and regulations are here. It's not like this in any other part of Japan, and the general dislike for us is pretty noticeable. And its not your tax dollars that keep us here. It's the Japanese tax dollars. Thats why when we pay our rent, we don't keep any excess if the rent is under what the cap is. They pay for it, so we have to have exact numbers.

[okisteve]

But if you haven't actually lived on the mainland, then you don't know what its like to go from that environment to realize how archaic the rules and regulations are here. It's not like this in any other part of Japan, and the general dislike for us is pretty noticeable. And its not your tax dollars that keep us here. It's the Japanese tax dollars. Thats why when we pay our rent, we don't keep any excess if the rent is under what the cap is. They pay for it, so we have to have exact numbers.

You might be losing sight of the fact that relatively speaking SOFA personnel are a negligible factor in mainland Japan - what - 50,000 out of 122 million? Here they are about 5% of the population and occupy 20% of the land area, a big enough minority to be noticed and scrutinized.

[Muku]

Ok, fair enough. I couldn't figure out where your point of view was coming from, but now I get it. You came off as you were actually Japanese or Okinawan at first. But if you haven't actually lived on the mainland, then you don't know what its like to go from that environment to realize how archaic the rules and regulations are here. It's not like this in any other part of Japan, and the general dislike for us is pretty noticeable. And its not your tax dollars that keep us here. It's the Japanese tax dollars. Thats why when we pay our rent, we don't keep any excess if the rent is under what the cap is. They pay for it, so we have to have exact numbers.

Guy it's MY tax yen that supports you. I am a green card carrying foreigner here in Japan. I pay roughly $5,000 a year in tax yen not including the 5% sales tax on every purchase I make.

I have a vested interest in the bases here from that point of view:D

How are the rules here for the military archaic in respect to living here in Okinawa and mainland?

Because the laws in Japan are pretty much uniform otherwise.

[Oki Cajun]

Guy it's MY tax yen that supports you. I am a green card carrying foreigner here in Japan. I pay roughly $5,000 a year in tax yen not including the 5% sales tax on every purchase I make.

I have a vested interest in the bases here from that point of view:D

How are the rules here for the military archaic in respect to living here in Okinawa and mainland?

Because the laws in Japan are pretty much uniform otherwise.

I've never seen 9 installations simultaneously prohibited from going off base. The rules are uniform in regards to SOFA and the UCMJ, but the lengths the commanders go to are much more drastic here. Thats probably more to do with the unimaginable pressure being put on him from both the Japanese and US sides. I think the guy who posted before you hit the nail on the head in saying that relatively speaking we are here in very low numbers, but Okinawa being so small, we are much more noticeable. I'm sure this is the way it's always been here, but I personally don't take comfort in that. The old timers here have seen this kind of thing come and go without batting an eye I'm sure.

[Oki Cajun]

You might be losing sight of the fact that relatively speaking SOFA personnel are a negligible factor in mainland Japan - what - 50,000 out of 122 million? Here they are about 5% of the population and occupy 20% of the land area, a big enough minority to be noticed and scrutinized.

Yeah thats exactly right too. Thats probably why this kinda thing doesn't make this kind of stink on the mainland. There's just too much hustle and bustle and people paying attention to much more worthwhile issues than what the Americans are up to.

[youngatheart]

Why is the topless woman picture (Guyjin's) not considered offensive and obscene??

[P_chan]

Why is the topless woman picture (Guyjin's) not considered offensive and obscene??

Hmmmmmmmm........maybe someone should do an IP address check:D

[Tony Stacks]

Why is the topless woman picture (Guyjin's) not considered offensive and obscene??


Because it's not. Go read the rules.:cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing ::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cur sing::cursing:

[Gunny's Wife]

We arrived here in Iwakuni about 5 weeks ago. I felt like we had won the lottery when we were allowed to come here. (My husband has been here twice before, but the kids and I never had.) I do not speak the language, but I am trying to learn. I'm humble and polite with everyone I meet. I remove my shoes, I kneel at low tables (even though it KILLS my knees!), I do everything I know to do to respect the Japanese people and their country and culture. So, this whole lockdown situation really came as a slap in the face. I found myself sitting on the floor today crying. And, trust me, it takes a LOT to make me have a melt down! I don't know what really happened in Okinawa. I wasn't there so I'm not going to insert myself into something I am ignorant about. I do know there have been a few other incidents, but again, I don't know enough to comment. All I know is this SUCKS!!! I haven't done anything wrong. Neither have my kids. Neither have all the people I know here at MCAS. But we are stuck! I'm not trying to be disrespectful of POW's, but I feel like a prisoner. If I could speak to the powers that be, I would apologize on behalf of those individuals that created this situation just so we could get off the base. I've jokingly suggested we start making paper cranes with messages of apology and tossing them over the fence, but now I think maybe it's not such a bad idea.... Just venting. I know it's not the end of the world, and eventually we'll get our privileges back. It's just an icky way to start life here.

[hankypanky]

We arrived here in Iwakuni about 5 weeks ago. I felt like we had won the lottery when we were allowed to come here. (My husband has been here twice before, but the kids and I never had.) I do not speak the language, but I am trying to learn. I'm humble and polite with everyone I meet. I remove my shoes, I kneel at low tables (even though it KILLS my knees!), I do everything I know to do to respect the Japanese people and their country and culture. So, this whole lockdown situation really came as a slap in the face. I found myself sitting on the floor today crying. And, trust me, it takes a LOT to make me have a melt down! I don't know what really happened in Okinawa. I wasn't there so I'm not going to insert myself into something I am ignorant about. I do know there have been a few other incidents, but again, I don't know enough to comment. All I know is this SUCKS!!! I haven't done anything wrong. Neither have my kids. Neither have all the people I know here at MCAS. But we are stuck! I'm not trying to be disrespectful of POW's, but I feel like a prisoner. If I could speak to the powers that be, I would apologize on behalf of those individuals that created this situation just so we could get off the base. I've jokingly suggested we start making paper cranes with messages of apology and tossing them over the fence, but now I think maybe it's not such a bad idea.... Just venting. I know it's not the end of the world, and eventually we'll get our privileges back. It's just an icky way to start life here.

hang in there gunny wife, times will soon get better. iwakuni is just caught up in all this like most here on oki. soon you'll be out on kintai bridge and riding the bullet train!! keep your head up!

[Gunny's Wife]

Thanks, Hank. I was afraid I was going to get bashed for voicing my feelings. It's nice to have kind words.

[DoctorP]

No bashing. Sucks that you guys are caught up in this along with Fuji...but the other bases in mainland are free to move about. You'll be ok, Iwakuni is a nice place to be.

[DoctorP]

I've never seen 9 installations simultaneously prohibited from going off base. The rules are uniform in regards to SOFA and the UCMJ, but the lengths the commanders go to are much more drastic here. Thats probably more to do with the unimaginable pressure being put on him from both the Japanese and US sides. I think the guy who posted before you hit the nail on the head in saying that relatively speaking we are here in very low numbers, but Okinawa being so small, we are much more noticeable. I'm sure this is the way it's always been here, but I personally don't take comfort in that. The old timers here have seen this kind of thing come and go without batting an eye I'm sure.

You need to quit thinking of it as 9 installations. As far as the Marines go, Okinawa is known as Camp Butler...one big installation (with several smaller ones inside it). Kind of like Camp Pendleton with all of it's smaller areas inside it. Why would the commander lock down say only Camp Foster? You would still have 1,000's walking the streets and the locals wouldn't see any progress.

[RChan]

We arrived here in Iwakuni about 5 weeks ago. I felt like we had won the lottery when we were allowed to come here. (My husband has been here twice before, but the kids and I never had.) I do not speak the language, but I am trying to learn. I'm humble and polite with everyone I meet. I remove my shoes, I kneel at low tables (even though it KILLS my knees!), I do everything I know to do to respect the Japanese people and their country and culture. So, this whole lockdown situation really came as a slap in the face. I found myself sitting on the floor today crying. And, trust me, it takes a LOT to make me have a melt down! I don't know what really happened in Okinawa. I wasn't there so I'm not going to insert myself into something I am ignorant about. I do know there have been a few other incidents, but again, I don't know enough to comment. All I know is this SUCKS!!! I haven't done anything wrong. Neither have my kids. Neither have all the people I know here at MCAS. But we are stuck! I'm not trying to be disrespectful of POW's, but I feel like a prisoner. If I could speak to the powers that be, I would apologize on behalf of those individuals that created this situation just so we could get off the base. I've jokingly suggested we start making paper cranes with messages of apology and tossing them over the fence, but now I think maybe it's not such a bad idea.... Just venting. I know it's not the end of the world, and eventually we'll get our privileges back. It's just an icky way to start life here.

How does this situation in Okinawa affect you guys over there in Iwakuni??:-|

[DoctorP]

How does this situation in Okinawa affect you guys over there in Iwakuni??:-|

Iwakuni and Camp Fuji are locked down as well....they fall under III MEF.

[VWBOYAF1]

We arrived here in Iwakuni about 5 weeks ago. I felt like we had won the lottery when we were allowed to come here. (My husband has been here twice before, but the kids and I never had.) I do not speak the language, but I am trying to learn. I'm humble and polite with everyone I meet. I remove my shoes, I kneel at low tables (even though it KILLS my knees!), I do everything I know to do to respect the Japanese people and their country and culture. So, this whole lockdown situation really came as a slap in the face. I found myself sitting on the floor today crying. And, trust me, it takes a LOT to make me have a melt down! I don't know what really happened in Okinawa. I wasn't there so I'm not going to insert myself into something I am ignorant about. I do know there have been a few other incidents, but again, I don't know enough to comment. All I know is this SUCKS!!! I haven't done anything wrong. Neither have my kids. Neither have all the people I know here at MCAS. But we are stuck! I'm not trying to be disrespectful of POW's, but I feel like a prisoner. If I could speak to the powers that be, I would apologize on behalf of those individuals that created this situation just so we could get off the base. I've jokingly suggested we start making paper cranes with messages of apology and tossing them over the fence, but now I think maybe it's not such a bad idea.... Just venting. I know it's not the end of the world, and eventually we'll get our privileges back. It's just an icky way to start life here.

Don't worry. You shouldn't take it personally. This whole thing is just to smooth over relations. After the lockdown, people should try to go out to make new Okinawan friends. The more Okinawans there are who have American friends, the less they will look at us as scary neighbors.

When you said that you felt like you "won the Lottery", I knew exactly how you feel. That is how I've been feeling since I got my orders to Kadena. My wife and I actually broke down in tears we were so happy. Nothing is going to get me down in Okinawa, not even a short lockdown. I'll still have my in-laws who will bring us whatever we need from off-base.

[Big_Papa]

Gunny's Wife,
I know you haven't been there very long, but so you know there was an alleged gang rape there in Oct.
I was there before we came here (talk about good fortune to remain in JP), and there were several instances just like the ones occurring here now. Iwakuni is a lot smaller than MCB Butler, but the locals there sit up and take notice as well. Fortunately for you, its dealt with quickly, and the media isn't really into using terroristic scare tactics like they are here.
My wife is from Hiroshima, and works for a news agency here. OMG, you should here her talk about how slanted the media is here. "Get a rope boyz"!!!

[Doomrider]

End this damn thing sweet jesus. I need a car and I love the beach :(

[thistle]

Because it's not. Go read the rules.:cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing ::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cur sing::cursing:

I hate having to go and read rules - what does it say??

I put Guyjin on ignore as did some other people as I don't want to look at the pic. and I have this on at work so it would not be appropriate.

Perhaps it is time he changed his avator, then we could ALL read his posts!

[Tony Stacks]

I hate having to go and read rules - what does it say??

I put Guyjin on ignore as did some other people as I don't want to look at the pic. and I have this on at work so it would not be appropriate.

Perhaps it is time he changed his avator, then we could ALL read his posts!

Perhaps it's not :rolleyes:

[thistle]

Perhaps it's not :rolleyes:


Whatever:rolleyes:

[Tony Stacks]

Whatever:rolleyes:


Whatever :rolleyes:

[KumaNoPooh]

Here are a couple of atricles I found. I think he can order the military but not civilians, he can only ask that we abide by the spirit or intent of the general order. Somebody with more education than me needs to look into this for the next time. I just checked there are no threats for Japan as of late.
http://www.nffe.org/ht/display/ArticleDetails/i/899/pid/176

Look for Curfew Issue (Apr2005 - ???) I tried to find the end resualt, but it is closed to the public by both parties according to the article.
http://kalaniosullivan.com/OsanAB/OsanSongtanHistorya3.html#Curfew

According to his radio broadcast he issues this to the military not civilians probably because he can not really do it to civilians. Like I said I hope somebody with more education and wisdom looks into this please.

[Tony Stacks]

I AM NEVER CHANGING MY AVATAR SO YOU AND WHOEVER ELSE CAN JUST GET BLIND FOLDS AND KEEP IGNORING ME TILL THE END OF TIME!


Well put!:first::first::first::first:

[okisteve]

I AM NEVER CHANGING MY AVATAR SO YOU AND WHOEVER ELSE CAN JUST GET BLIND FOLDS AND KEEP IGNORING ME TILL THE END OF TIME!

Well, I sure hope at least you're changing the popcorn once in a while:w00t:. Or are you selling it as "slightly used"?.

[hankypanky]

Well, I sure hope at least you're changing the popcorn once in a while:w00t:. Or are you selling it as "slightly used"?.

i'll take two bags, with butterrrrrrrrrr:D

[TheLastDon]

I hate having to go and read rules - what does it say??

I put Guyjin on ignore as did some other people as I don't want to look at the pic. and I have this on at work so it would not be appropriate.

Perhaps it is time he changed his avator, then we could ALL read his posts!

You can turn the avatar pictures off. :)

[thistle]

You can turn the avatar pictures off. :)

It's ok, I don't think I want to read the posts anyway.

I'll come back in a few months and see what's going on.

Feeling way too outnumbered by the guys these days.

It's been interesting, but lately it has become more like a Men's only club in here.

See ya around.

[Tony Stacks]

It's ok, I don't think I want to read the posts anyway.

I'll come back in a few months and see what's going on.

Feeling way too outnumbered by the guys these days.

It's been interesting, but lately it has become more like a Men's only club in here.

See ya around.

See ya:cool:

[OkinawaStud]

Just got the "Official" word. Lock down until 3 Mar. at the earliest.

[OkinawaStud]

MEDIA RELEASE
III Marine Expeditionary Force/Marine Corps Bases Japan
From: 1st Lt. Judd Wilson Mail to:
Media Relations Officer Consolidated Public Affairs Office
USMC, Okinawa
Questions: Call: (DSN) 645-0792/0790/0791 MCB Camp Smedley D. Butler
FAX: (DSN) 645-3803 Unit 35002
Comm: (098) 892-5111 Ext. 645-0790 FPO AP 96373-5002
E-mail: OkinawaPAO@usmc.mil
Web site: www.usmc.okinawa.mil/media

Release number: 08-04 Date: Feb. 25, 2008

Period of Reflection continues for SOFA-status personnel

MARINE CORPS BASE CAMP BUTLER, Okinawa, Japan – Lt. Gen. Richard C. Zilmer, the Okinawa Area Coordinator and senior U.S. military commander on Okinawa, met with senior military leaders from all the services Feb. 24 to evaluate the effects and impacts of the “Period of Reflection.” As a result, Lt. Gen. Zilmer decided the “Period of Reflection” will remain in place until further notice while service leaders continue to review procedures and orders that govern the discipline and conduct of all U.S. service members serving in Okinawa. However, the order governing the limited movement of SOFA-status personnel will be reassessed again by senior service leaders on March 3.
Lt. Gen. Zilmer said, “I need leaders at all echelons in all the services to continue to reinforce what the vast majority do well as forward serving ambassadors of America.”
The U.S. military and its commanders take very seriously all incidents and allegations involving misconduct by service members, especially those that impact the host nation community.
For the indefinite future, SOFA-status personnel will continue to be limited to their place of duty or employment, worship, education, or medical or dental treatment. SOFA-status personnel are authorized to transit between U.S. military installations or their off-base residence via privately owned vehicle, military supported transportation, or commercial taxi.
There is no restriction to regularly scheduled activities and facilities aboard any U.S. base or installation
“I highly encourage our service members, civilians and family members to continue to utilize the plethora of activities and services aboard all camps and installations on Okinawa,” Lt. Gen. Zilmer said.

(30)

[DougP]

Here's the latest news from the Japanese side of things

Got it from another forum so no link(gomen)

TOKYO, Feb. 25 (Xinhua) -- The U.S. force in Southern Japan's Okinawa Prefecture said Monday its self-imposed curfew on all military personnel and nonmilitary staff in the prefecture will goon at least through March 3.

The U.S. force made public in a press release the decision of Lt. Gen. Richard Zilmer, commander of the U.S. forces in Okinawa.

The Japan-based U.S. forces imposed the curfew from last Wednesday as a measure to tighten discipline in wake of a series of crimes which infuriated Japanese people.

According to the order, all servicemen, nonmilitary staff and their relatives are forbidden from leaving bases, but are still allowed to go to workplaces, schools and medical institutions.

The U.S. Forces also decided to designate Feb. 22 the "Day of Reflection" and set up a "Sexual Assault Prevention and Response Task Force."

I love this one here:
According to the order, all servicemen, nonmilitary staff and their relatives are forbidden from leaving bases, but are still allowed to go to workplaces, schools and medical institutions.

It would seem that nobody is on the same page on what we can or cannot do. Be it Air Force, Marine or even local authorities and media.

[BakaOnna]

I'll just be happy when I can do things such as go down to the Family Mart and buy trash bags for my town without getting written permission from my husband's shop. Some things should have been better accounted for in the mandate.

[carms328]

We arrived here in Iwakuni about 5 weeks ago. I felt like we had won the lottery when we were allowed to come here. (My husband has been here twice before, but the kids and I never had.) I do not speak the language, but I am trying to learn. I'm humble and polite with everyone I meet. I remove my shoes, I kneel at low tables (even though it KILLS my knees!), I do everything I know to do to respect the Japanese people and their country and culture. So, this whole lockdown situation really came as a slap in the face. I found myself sitting on the floor today crying. And, trust me, it takes a LOT to make me have a melt down! I don't know what really happened in Okinawa. I wasn't there so I'm not going to insert myself into something I am ignorant about. I do know there have been a few other incidents, but again, I don't know enough to comment. All I know is this SUCKS!!! I haven't done anything wrong. Neither have my kids. Neither have all the people I know here at MCAS. But we are stuck! I'm not trying to be disrespectful of POW's, but I feel like a prisoner. If I could speak to the powers that be, I would apologize on behalf of those individuals that created this situation just so we could get off the base. I've jokingly suggested we start making paper cranes with messages of apology and tossing them over the fence, but now I think maybe it's not such a bad idea.... Just venting. I know it's not the end of the world, and eventually we'll get our privileges back. It's just an icky way to start life here.

I hear ya Gunny's wife...
We're so pumped to be headed over there, then I get word of this and it about made me sick. I feel for all of you "worthy" servicemen/families and hope that this ends before too long. It's going to be hard enough for me to be away from my family for the first time (new AF wife here) let alone be confined to my house. Blehhh....