U.S. orders total lockdown of troops

[JUNewsBot]

JUNewsBot Has Just Posted the Following:

Under heavy pressure from the Japanese government, the USMC has taken strong measures on its military forces. the Okinawa Area Coordinator and senior U.

Click here to view the article. (http://www.japanupdate.com/?id=8416)

Feel free to hold a discussion regarding this article here.

[Kye77]

I think this is just brilliant! Inconvenient it may be but this will show the local community just how much the American community contributes to the economy here. I bet they will figure they have bitten off more than they can chew & never reckoned that MANY establishments will suffer the loss of business the American community gave them.

[Asshat]

I fully support this decision, though I don't like it.

I doubt this will have an impact on Japanese buisness off base. Most of the buisnesses that cater to Americans are owned by Americans.

[badkitty]

I would love to know just how a financial loss will prove a point? How have the Okinawan people bitten off more than they could chew? It wasn't an Okinawan man that allegedy raped a young girl? It wasn't an Okinawan that broke into someones home.. It was the idiotic behavior of a few people (irregardless of branch of service) that made is suck for the rest of us who use our common sense.

[Kye77]

I would love to know just how a financial loss will prove a point? How have the Okinawan people bitten off more than they could chew? It wasn't an Okinawan man that allegedy raped a young girl? It wasn't an Okinawan that broke into someones home.. It was the idiotic behavior of a few people (irregardless of branch of service) that made is suck for the rest of us who use our common sense.

The point is NOT about the senseless girl or the perverted man! It is all about making it a HUGE issue when an American commits a crime & the people making a ruckus or targeting other GOOD Americans because of it. We do not see the locals getting such CRAP when they commit crime against Americans now, do we?

[LooseCannon]

One thing that no one has even considered here (at lleast I've not seen it mentioned) is that SSgt Hadnot might be the one telling the truth here. We're so quick to condemn before the poor SOB has even had his day in court. The problem is I would expect this from the far left lunatic fringe here on the rock, I wouldn't have expected it to be almost universal on the American side too. There's little doubt that even if he turns out to be telling the truth, his career is over.

Anyway, Kye77's post is correct. There is some overweight gray haired balding pony tailed 1960's retread out there on the Japanese news every night lately saying that the American's bring nothing positive to Okinawa. I hope they keep the shut down in place for a couple of weeks. Once the business leaders start feeling it in their pocket books, they'll get together and start complaining to these "stoned on Awamori and God only knows what else retread hippy wannabes" a.k.a. local elected officials. Then again, I can afford to say that, I'm retired and non-SOFA. This doesn't affect me directly but I still feel the pinch, get the looks and feel for all of you.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Gonna go buy some cammies and walk around Gate2 area to have fun with the MPs.

[Harley_Diverson]

Thing is, they take news against americans and totally blow it up. Bet you still havent heard about the MLC that was discharged from a middle school for touching a 7yr old boys private now have you. Fair and Unbalanced reporting is what we need.

[Oki0619]

I fully support this decision, though I don't like it.

I doubt this will have an impact on Japanese buisness off base. Most of the buisnesses that cater to Americans are owned by Americans.

Yes because the CoCo Ichiban across from foster that is normally full of Americans is owned by an American....:rolleyes: Oh and all the bars and stores on gate 2 street too:rolleyes: Oh and Jusco and McDonalds:rolleyes: oh and etc..... It may not be evident at first but let it go on a week or two and we will see what happens.
For those of you who dont remember the first gulf war put several businesses under in Oceanside and Jacksonville, as well as all the drycleaners that went away when we switched to the new cammies.

[LooseCannon]

Uminchu, It's not true that most businesses out there that cater to American's are owned by Americans. You must have heard that on the Communist News Network (CNN).

[TheNoNamedOne]

Hmmm...reading the article and about those residing offbase being locked down with the exceptions for reasons why they can leave their residences, I notice they made no mention of taking Spot out for walks to do his "business."

Should keep the Sunabe sea wall area free from all those pet strolling DoD personel.

[badkitty]

No matter what country you go to, anything Americans do (mostly negative) will be blown out of proportion. If we continue to have people act negatively then that's EXACTLY whats going to happen in the media. Quit giving them stuff to write about and maybe just maybe the 98% of Americans that do good won't have to explain to their kids why they can't play outside with their Japanese neighbors or why we can't go to the park.

[socalheart]

Is it a "day of reflection" or "regret"? :rolleyes: Someone needs to get their "days of" straight.

Whether or not the businesses that rely on American patronage being owned by Americans has nothing to do with it. Most of the hiphop style clothing stores on Gate 2 Street are owned by non-Americans. All of them will be impacted by this on some level. Sales are already poor, given the bad weather and year-round deployments. Cutting at least 50% of their customer base cuts the same in sales.

Again, hopefully this restriction thing won't last long.

[Harley_Diverson]

Prosecutor,
I wished your yard was close to the seawall so my dog could mark his spot.:ohmy:

[EatMoreFish]

I believe the point is that General Zilmer is being preasured by both the US and Japanese governments to show the world that he is taking charge of the situation.

[socalheart]

I understand that you may take your pet or child for a walk or go running yourself, just as long as you don't go into a building that isn't your residence. If you have to pee or poop, hold it or find a bush. heh.

[DougP]

Hmmm...reading the article and about those residing offbase being locked down with the exceptions for reasons why they can leave their residences, I notice they made no mention of taking Spot out for walks to do his "business."

Should keep the Sunabe sea wall area free from all those pet strolling DoD personel.

Plenty of Okinawans out there that are restricted due to this new order as well.
Local Nationals who are command sponsored dependents are NOT exempted."

Guess they need to take some time and "reflect" as well. Wouldn't want my Okinawan wife to go out there and rape someone.:eek: Glad they created this time of reflection for her well being.:rolleyes:

[Ammoyankee]

I don't regret anything, for I didn't do anything. My sorrow goes out to any victim but regret I will not!

[Harley_Diverson]

I have to agree ammo.

s/f

[DougP]

Does anyone feel the need to "reflect"? I know I don't.:D

[LooseCannon]

No matter what country you go to, anything Americans do (mostly negative) will be blown out of proportion. If we continue to have people act negatively then that's EXACTLY whats going to happen in the media. Quit giving them stuff to write about and maybe just maybe the 98% of Americans that do good won't have to explain to their kids why they can't play outside with their Japanese neighbors or why we can't go to the park.

Dude, or dudette! Face it, the media hates America first. You don't see them worrying about how the ChiComs are building up their forces nor how brutal they are. Likewise with the Cubans and they think that lil shit for brains sawed off piece of shit dog eating despot freezing his nads off north of the Korean DMZ is the cats meow!

How many stories do you see in the news paper now that the surge is working in Iraq. None! but if a GI looked under a burka because the person under it was 6'8", it was front page on the NY Times as sexual harassment and what beasts American's are.

[LooseCannon]

Gonna go buy some cammies and walk around Gate2 area to have fun with the MPs.

I live closer to Henoko, a.k.a. "Hooterville"

[Oki0619]

I really hope that someone's Japanese national wife is given shit for going to Jusco that will be a media nightmare for us, I can see it now "US Government now placing restrictions on Japanese Citizens ability to move freely through their own country."

[VWBOYAF1]

Local Nationals who are command sponsored dependents are NOT exempted."

One of the first rules to follow when creating a regulation, is to make sure that it is actually enforceable.

Do you really think that an American is going to tell an Okinawan that they can't go to Jusco, because they are supposed to reflect on how an American raped an Okinawan? Never going to happen. I wish I was Okinawan so I could test this out. I would raise such a stink!!

[badkitty]

I know that no matter what we do we will crucified in the media but again why contiunally give them ammo? Breaking the law is just that, breaking the law.

[Ammoyankee]

I really hope that someone's Japanese national wife is given shit for going to Jusco that will be a media nightmare for us, I can see it now "US Government now placing restrictions on Japanese Citizens ability to move freely through their own country."

Well, since I am on leave this week, I called my command and inquired about my wife. The last time this scenario happened, they gave special permission to Okinawan spouses to travel to and from their family residences freely. Though, they still are prohibited from entering any establishments or shopping whatsoever. But, being able to go home is better than nothing. Once there, she will probably jump in a Kanji plate with her mom and do whatever anyway...

[DougP]

I really hope that someone's Japanese national wife is given shit for going to Jusco that will be a media nightmare for us, I can see it now "US Government now placing restrictions on Japanese Citizens ability to move freely through their own country."

I agree.:thumbup:

[DougP]

One of the first rules to follow when creating a regulation, is to make sure that it is actually enforceable.

Do you really think that an American is going to tell an Okinawan that they can't go to Jusco, because they are supposed to reflect on how an American raped an Okinawan? Never going to happen. I wish I was Okinawan so I could test this out. I would raise such a stink!!

I'm just passing what's coming down the pipe and in the order. It sounds pretty stupid to me as well, but sit back and watch it happen. Should make for some good press.:D

[badkitty]

Now, the DUI rate on base is going to be INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!! I would love to work at Macaroni Grill right about now, tips will be awesome!

[okisteve]

Well, since I am on leave this week, I called my command and inquired about my wife. The last time this scenario happened, they gave special permission to Okinawan spouses to travel to and from their family residences freely. Though, they still are prohibited from entering any establishments or shopping whatsoever. But, being able to go home is better than nothing. Once there, she will probably jump in a Kanji plate with her mom and do whatever anyway...

It sounds lika a lot of fuss and worry over very little. Who's going to stop an Okinawan woman and check her ID? MPs? Japanese police? Good idea to not use your Y plates though.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Do people tip better when they are frustrated, isolated, and feel unfairly singled out?

[badkitty]

I dunno, I guess we will find out.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Prosecutor,
I wished your yard was close to the seawall so my dog could mark his spot.:ohmy:

Doesn't sound like you are doing much reflecting on this day of reflection?

One bad apple always spoils the others.

[VWBOYAF1]

That is the stupidest effing thing they could do. Why include command sponsored locals? Now they are just asking for trouble. I hope somebody does tell the media, though the locals probably won't care because they look down on the command sponsored locals anyway.

Could you imagine living in the US and a foriegn government tells you that you can't travel because your married to one of their nationals, who is a guest in your country. There would be gun battles for sure.

[silviasichigo]

Now, the DUI rate on base is going to be INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!! I would love to work at Macaroni Grill right about now, tips will be awesome!

hmmmm scratches head and thinks about part-time employment....:thumbup:

[DougP]

It sounds lika a lot of fuss and worry over very little. Who's going to stop an Okinawan woman and check her ID? MPs? Japanese police? Good idea to not use your Y plates though.

Some families don't have much of a choice on this one and may only have Y plates. So I guess its best for these Okinawans just to stay in. Quietly imprisoned in their own home in their own country, away from the gestapo.:thumbdown: Land of the free... :argh3:

[badkitty]

I called Chilli's already...... No openings..... :(

[DougP]

Do people tip better when they are frustrated, isolated, and feel unfairly singled out?

Not usually but it might lead them to drinking a lot more and then tipping:first:

[okisteve]

Is it a "day of reflection" or "regret"? :rolleyes: Someone needs to get their "days of" straight.

Whether or not the businesses that rely on American patronage being owned by Americans has nothing to do with it. Most of the hiphop style clothing stores on Gate 2 Street are owned by non-Americans. All of them will be impacted by this on some level. Sales are already poor, given the bad weather and year-round deployments. Cutting at least 50% of their customer base cuts the same in sales.


Hip-hop sales are poor? That's a GOOD thing, innit?

[VWBOYAF1]

Do people tip better when they are frustrated, isolated, and feel unfairly singled out?

Are we being unfairly singled out? I thought we were getting what we deserve.:rolleyes:

[TheNoNamedOne]

Hip-hop sales are poor? That's a GOOD thing, innit?

lol. Looks like that "Playaz" store on Gate2 is in for some hard time.

[silviasichigo]

lol. Looks like that "Playaz" store on Gate2 is in for some hard time.

:P that was the funniest thing I have ever seen you type (heard you say).....It will probably be the last but damn that was funny.......:thumbup:

[P_chan]

Wow TP actually said something funny!

[socalheart]

and gawd save the poor soul who stops the pregnant woman from going to mister donuts during a craving. personally that poor boy would probably be in traction. heh. talk about your international medical incidents. oddly enough, we still have my car in kanji plates due to repair issues. it may come in handy just in case.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Gonna start asking wives off base to explain theirselves being out of their residences.

[hankypanky]

Uminchu, It's not true that most businesses out there that cater to American's are owned by Americans. You must have heard that on the Communist News Network (CNN).

well i know many that cater to americans, mine included. if the are not owned by americans, then it is owned by their wives. kitamae owner, bk owns about 3-4 businesses for example. bar owners are not the ones raising the flag, but the ones who will be hurt the most. when pyramids was put off limits by the base, they tried to get japanese to come to the place. many would not because it was an american style club. Most american style clubs have some okinawans that frequent the places, but a majority of okinawans would not come into those places, because, well they are afraid of americans or they are too noisy.

that's why any japanese snack that wants to make money will deal with hostesses because it brings in big bucks. a japanese bar, you better own the place because japanese don't drink like americans. you'll have trouble selling enough drinks to pay the rent, less make a profit. So many will put in pool tables, darts, karaoke etc to bring in extra revenue.

it's a hard business but a lockdown really puts the brakes on. Oh well, plan B, open a whorehouse:D

[P_chan]

Wow, everyone hates you umichu! Don't worry, I still love you.

Anyways, he's right, it won't be as big of a hit as you're all making it out to be. Sure there will be some effect, but nothing that would put anyone under (unless it's a privatly owned business such as hank's situation.). Big companies like McDonalds surely won't suffer at all.

[DougP]

Gonna start asking wives off base to explain theirselves being out of their residences.

While you're at it, ask them where their star of David patch is too.. er.. wait, wrong era :D sorry.

[Asshat]

Wow, everyone hates you umichu! Don't worry, I still love you.

Anyways, he's right, it won't be as big of a hit as you're all making it out to be. Sure there will be some effect, but nothing that would put anyone under (unless it's a privatly owned business such as hank's situation.). Big companies like McDonalds surely won't suffer at all.

I am not the one saying it will make a shit. I have two friends who own bars that cater to an equal base of Japanese and Americans.

As far as what I hear on CNN, no, I make my own little observations about bar ownership on my lifetime of living here.

[hankypanky]

everyone needs food, not everyone needs booze, except me, dk, umi, etc, etc, etc it will hurt for awhile, but it won't last forever. there is always tomorrow. hell, might give me a reason to start something else up.:D

[silviasichigo]

Big companies like McDonalds surely won't suffer at all.

You would be surprised good buddy of mine owns the MCdonalds on 58, (in SAN-A, and 330 behind foster....he complains all the time about the hits he takes. Most of the english that is attempted from thoes Macdo's is straight out of my notebooks (wish they would study harder) You got to remember that Micky D's is franchised and still owned by an individual or 's.....they have monthly tolls of customer base and for the area's around base they are booming with Americans But again the numbers will tell after this........

[hapsan]

It's a good idea. They are trying to prevent what happened in 1970. A Navy man hit an Okinawan man with his car. Numerous anti American radicals happened to be in Okinawa from the mainland drinking in bars. A riot occured. American cars were stopped, the occupants were dragged out of their cars and their cars were set on fire. Gate two was damaged, the USO,which was just outside gate two was also damaged. It was an ugly situation.

[devine]

Gonna go buy some cammies and walk around Gate2 area to have fun with the MPs.


Why not look even more ridiculous.. get Army Blouse, AF Belt, Marines Pants, and Navy shoes. I think you will just stand out then. Sounds good to me!


Obviously this is gonna hurt both the Americans and the Okinawans but the point is not the financial loss they will have it's the principal of it all. I have read on here so many times that Okinawa can survive without Americans and they want us out. This will be a true test of that but the reason for the lockdown is to bring back faith that we Americans understand what happened are sorry for the troubles and understand the consquences.
At the same time I hate feeling grounded especially since I am not 20 year old kid here. I am a bit older than that. I ground my children from the fun stuff now the military has grounded all SOFA STATUS Personal.

[Asshat]

everyone needs food, not everyone needs booze, except me, dk, umi, etc, etc, etc it will hurt for awhile, but it won't last forever. there is always tomorrow. hell, might give me a reason to start something else up.:D

I'm good to go for awhile. And I can easily pass as non-SOFA as I have the right credentials for that too. :) Hank, you can get all the overrun!

[silviasichigo]

I'm good to go for awhile. And I can easily pass as non-SOFA as I have the right credentials for that too. :) Hank, you can get all the overrun!

gotta love the gorudo-meinkyo and gaikokujintorokusho :thumbup: glad I did it when I had the chance made it to gold two years ago I mean the guy I know who looks like me :o

[hankypanky]

umi, you muscle-bound bitch. i knew you took care of your six!

[DougP]

gotta love the gorudo-meinkyo and gaikokujintorokusho :thumbup: glad I did it when I had the chance made it to gold two years ago I mean the guy I know who looks like me :o

right on:thumbup: I just can't drive:argh3:

[silviasichigo]

right on:thumbup: I just can't drive:argh3:

You mean the guy who looks like you :D wait why can't you drive? too slow on the testo?


Oh yeah the lock down is cool :thumbup1:

[Asshat]

umi, you muscle-bound bitch. i knew you took care of your six!

A girl has to be ready for anything! And I do mean anything.:D

[okisteve]

Wow, everyone hates you umichu! Don't worry, I still love you.

Anyways, he's right, it won't be as big of a hit as you're all making it out to be. Sure there will be some effect, but nothing that would put anyone under (unless it's a privatly owned business such as hank's situation.). Big companies like McDonalds surely won't suffer at all.

I thought McDonald's are all individually owned franchises. Or by other small companies.

[silviasichigo]

I thought McDonald's are all individually owned franchises. Or by other small companies.

refer to my post you are correct usually 1 or a few persons own 1 or a few stores. Like Famima, lawsons, etc

[P_chan]

You would be surprised good buddy of mine owns the MCdonalds on 58, (in SAN-A, and 330 behind foster....he complains all the time about the hits he takes. Most of the english that is attempted from thoes Macdo's is straight out of my notebooks (wish they would study harder) You got to remember that Micky D's is franchised and still owned by an individual or 's.....they have monthly tolls of customer base and for the area's around base they are booming with Americans But again the numbers will tell after this........

Ahh I see. I didn't know that.

[nate123453]

This lock down has been great I hope it will last forever and the military will get better pay like in cuba. I hope the also remove all Okinawan/Japanese employees from the base.

[silviasichigo]

Yeah just like the US, Saudi. and one day Iraq LOL franchised McDonalds, Colters etc all up and down the tigris river hahaha

If unless the Marines get locked down over there in Iraq hehe

[Ammoyankee]

This lock down has been great I hope it will last forever and the military will get better pay like in cuba. I hope the also remove all Okinawan/Japanese employees from the base.

Were you touched inappropriately as a child or what?

[silviasichigo]

This lock down has been great I hope it will last forever and the military will get better pay like in cuba. I hope the also remove all Okinawan/Japanese employees from the base.

then would could hire more of the jobless Americans on Island to do so work hehe

[silviasichigo]

Were you touched inappropriately as a child or what?

haha that is great :D

[nate123453]

Were you touched inappropriately as a child or what?

Yeah by your Mom and I loved it.

[nate123453]

then would could hire more of the jobless Americans on Island to do so work hehe

Or maybe some homeless in the US.

[DougP]

Alright, no name calling, talking about each others moms, or inquiring about each others abusive pasts. Keep it clean in here.

[DougP]

edit: never mind Doc P cleaned it up. Thanks doc!

[Oki0619]

I have said it before Okinawans "be careful what you ask for" refer to the PI they asked for it and got it.

[msshort]

I think putting SOFA personnel on lock down may only irritate an already sensitive subject. I find it hard to believe that taking away ones right to roam freely off base will serve as a lesson. Base commanders just had ethics training as a requirement before securing for the 96 what makes anyone think that training and locking down is going to make a difference. Get us the heck off this island and let the Japs struggle. They want us off so badly but want the American dollar. This whole thing is ridiculous.

[pnayangel]

One bad apple ruins it for the whole bunch...we need to be reminded that were are only guests in this country. That is all.

[Oki0619]

I think putting SOFA personnel on lock down may only irritate an already sensitive subject. I find it hard to believe that taking away ones right to roam freely off base will serve as a lesson. Base commanders just had ethics training as a requirement before securing for the 96 what makes anyone think that training and locking down is going to make a difference. Get us the heck off this island and let the Japs struggle. They want us off so badly but want the American dollar. This whole thing is ridiculous.

What are you like 90 years old and fought in WWII???

[Tony Stacks]

...we need to be reminded that were are only guests in this country. That is all.


Actually the military are not guests here they are ordered here.

[Asshat]

I think putting SOFA personnel on lock down may only irritate an already sensitive subject. I find it hard to believe that taking away ones right to roam freely off base will serve as a lesson. Base commanders just had ethics training as a requirement before securing for the 96 what makes anyone think that training and locking down is going to make a difference. Get us the heck off this island and let the Japs struggle. They want us off so badly but want the American dollar. This whole thing is ridiculous.

It is a guesture made by the General. Nothing more, nothing less. A message.

[EatMoreFish]

It is a guesture made by the General. Nothing more, nothing less. A message.

Uminchuy is correct. I stated the same basically thing earlier. This is a 3 Star doing what he has to do to appease a whole lot of politicians.

[RChan]

Uminchuy is correct. I stated the same basically thing earlier. This is a 3 Star doing what he has to do to appease a whole lot of politicians.

This is not a message. It's a reaction to the trust these "idiots" lost from him when he decided not to restrict this past four day liberty. He gave them the opportunity and trusted them and they blew it for everyone.

Also we must remind ourselves that although the U.S is a "guest" here in Japan, they are not leaving anytime soon. This thing is bigger than all of us voicing our opinions , albeit silly most of the time, and those who wish for the Americans to leave the region. If there was no U.S prescence in Asia , you would have China and North Korea doing as they please. Until the Japan- US Security Treaty of 1951 (http://www.niraikanai.wwma.net/pages/archive/ampo51.html )goes away, they will be here for a long time to come.

[msshort]

:old::old:What are you like 90 years old and fought in WWII???
Sure....why not....probably the smartest assumption you've made

[BigMan40]

I think its messed up. Especially if you try to go on Leave to Mainland Japan and you still got to go by this crazy rule. Im a cilivian and I became one so I dont have to be treated like a 20 year. But I see as long as you got ties to the government you will always get treated like a kid. But sorry one thing I believe is if we are on lock down then the locals should be on lock down from working on the base. I mean there are alot of MLC and IHA that do messed up things but hey no body says nothing!!!

[Steganos]

I am mad, extremely mad, that my wife and myself, having both served in US Armed Forces, and choose to come here to Okinawa to continue serving and working for the benefit of probably many of you that have written on this forum. Have to be grounded like little children because of the actions of a few IDIOTS. I am also mad at the arrogance shown by most of you in this forum. "Loss of bussisness, Jusco, Coco Ichibans, blah, blah, blah..." If you all really think that the Okinawans need our wothrless dollar to survive, you all better wake up, and instead start doing what you are all suposed to be doing, like reflecting on the situation and thinking about how YOU are going to make a difference and help to keep idiots from doing this again. Act like adults and not like whining little boys and girls.

[GeoGeek]

Do you really think that an American is going to tell an Okinawan that they can't go to Jusco, because they are supposed to reflect on how an American raped an Okinawan?

When was Sgt Hadnott convicted?

[okisteve]

That was a realistic appraisal by Steganos, in my opinionated opinion. I just hope that some Ryudai professor or military economist has her pencil sharpened and calculator wound up so we can get a good reading on the effect on the local economy.

I am fairly sure that all Americans will feel less shy about calling out the jackasses for stupid behavior from now on. Or at least until it's all forgotten again.

[Asshat]

I am mad, extremely mad, that my wife and myself, having both served in US Armed Forces, and choose to come here to Okinawa to continue serving and working for the benefit of probably many of you that have written on this forum. Have to be grounded like little children because of the actions of a few IDIOTS. I am also mad at the arrogance shown by most of you in this forum. "Loss of bussisness, Jusco, Coco Ichibans, blah, blah, blah..." If you all really think that the Okinawans need our wothrless dollar to survive, you all better wake up, and instead start doing what you are all suposed to be doing, like reflecting on the situation and thinking about how YOU are going to make a difference and help to keep idiots from doing this again. Act like adults and not like whining little boys and girls.

Good points Steganos. I would ask however that you remember this is a place where people come to BS, and not an extension of the military or any other community. It is also populated by many people of whom have nothing to do with the DoD.

For many of us, reflecting on what we can do to keep this from happening is about as germain as reflecting how to fly to the moon. Many of us also realize this is an overature. To expect my dependants, none of whom are US citizens or affiliated with the DoD to sit home grounded in reflection is also ludicrous.

[Steganos]

Like I said, how are we going to keep the IDIOTS from doing this to us again? Moaning and complaining will not do.

[P_chan]

I am mad, extremely mad, that my wife and myself, having both served in US Armed Forces, and choose to come here to Okinawa to continue serving and working for the benefit of probably many of you that have written on this forum. Have to be grounded like little children because of the actions of a few IDIOTS. I am also mad at the arrogance shown by most of you in this forum. "Loss of bussisness, Jusco, Coco Ichibans, blah, blah, blah..." If you all really think that the Okinawans need our wothrless dollar to survive, you all better wake up, and instead start doing what you are all suposed to be doing, like reflecting on the situation and thinking about how YOU are going to make a difference and help to keep idiots from doing this again. Act like adults and not like whining little boys and girls.

Wow! Most worthwhile post of the day IMHO.

[TheLastDon]

Steganos this is where a lot of people come to whine and let off steam.

And for 99.999% of the people reflecting and being locked down is not going to help anything either.

[proudtobnotpc]

this just means instead of drinking at home I will have to go out and help the local econ

[OtisPMerriweather]

I too think it is extreme arrogance to think that the Okinawan economy will dry up due to us not being able to leave base. There are only 40,000 or so SOFA status personnel living here, compared to almost one and a half MILLION Japanese. Factor in the money Japanese tourists spend and factor OUT the fact that a large number of that 40K are actually dependent minors under the age of 18 that don't work, and you see what a tiny impact we really have when compared to Japanese.

Most of the major money going out into town (housing agency rental fees, bills, cell phones, etc.) won't even be affected, and your average American doesn't go anywhere in town anyways except for Kin, Gate 2, Sunabe/Am.Village/Hamby, and maybe what, Kokusai St. And trust me American Village and Kokusai street will definitely go on. I drove through there (A.V.) today on my way home and it was more crowded than it's been in weeks. Most of the places on Gate 2 and Kin that Americans go ought to probably be razed anyways.

They can come up with all kinds of numbers and estimates, but please believe, for every American who won't go to Gate 2 and buy 3 dollar rum/cokes, there's a Japanese tourist that will spend hundreds.

Stop being so arrogant. My wife is Japanese and yes, I have made it clear to her, she's not going anywhere she doesn't absolutely need to go until this thing blows over. It is those of you who are trying to find a way around the orders and poke holes in the theory who will be the next one caught and make things worse! Everybody says it's the other guy..but I have seen 5 or six people already trying to find a way to cheat the system...it's the American way I guess.

[okiambassador]

this will show the local community just how much the American community contributes to the economy here. .

I agree with this though I also think enforcing a lockdown is good. "Peer pressure" after this experience will hopefully be enough to keep people in line.

It is sad to me that young girls wear barely enough clothes to cover their behinds and expect military men not to inquire.

It is also sad to me that military people (supposed to be of the highest class citizens) come here and act like that when we're guests in another country.

[Asshat]

Like I said, how are we going to keep the IDIOTS from doing this to us again? Moaning and complaining will not do.

Unless you were the duty NCO on the evening the young men did the DUI/Passout on the couch trick, or perhaps their supervisor, you can do nothing.

I put up with military control over every breath I took for over 20 years. I've lived here for three decades and have family here. I know of at least one spouse who is Japanese whose husband is on duty thousands of miles away. She has the kids. Does this make sence to restrict the movement of people like her? People like you?

There were other options. Okay it's an olive branch to our Japanese community.

But still. Staff NCO's are not doing their jobs. This is a military problem, not a SOFA problem. Tell me this is happening because we need to send a unified message to our hosts and I am okay with that. But please sir, do not tell me that I am supposed to take my retired ten years ago ass, current civilian status, and that of my non-American family and contemplate what I can do to prevent this from happening again.

Parting shot: I can and will support this.

[Black Orchid]

Quote:
Originally Posted by okisteve View Post
Hip-hop sales are poor? That's a GOOD thing, innit?
lol. Looks like that "Playaz" store on Gate2 is in for some hard time.

y'all gotta problem with hip hop?

[Asshat]

y'all gotta problem with hip hop?

lol! Orchid, you focused on that? :) How ya doing?

[okisteve]

y'all gotta problem with hip hop?

Not if it's your music, baby.

[Black Orchid]

^^^ uminchu could be better but im hangin in there... and as for this lockdown i really dont leave the base unless i really want and have to. i go to church off base and apparently need permission from the group commander to do so now? craziness
this whole thing is crazy to me but oh welll..

[Asshat]

^^^ uminchu could be better but im hangin in there... and as for this lockdown i really dont leave the base unless i really want and have to. i go to church off base and apparently need permission from the group commander to do so now? craziness
this whole thing is crazy to me but oh welll..

Are those new photos I see?

[Black Orchid]

Are those new photos I see?

new to you old to me

and okisteve my stuff
is better than that crappy soulja boy d4l laffy taffy ringtone bubble gum crap...

[okisteve]

I don't want to turn this into an AFN post, but I just turned it on for the second time since 648 came back on. (Man, Ed Schultz sounds like he aged three years in one year he's been away from Okinawa!)

Well, anyway, what's tonight's most popular PSA? Right - the reflection order. I thought it was well done, but if it's repeated on AFN every 5 minutes, you suppose there will be anyone left listening by, oh say, 9:30?

[Ammoyankee]

^^^ uminchu could be better but im hangin in there... and as for this lockdown i really dont leave the base unless i really want and have to. i go to church off base and apparently need permission from the group commander to do so now? craziness
this whole thing is crazy to me but oh welll..

According to the commanders channel and AFN, a place of worship is allowed which means it shouldn't need special permission...

[Black Orchid]

I don't want to turn this into an AFN post, but I just turned it on for the second time since 648 came back on. (Man, Ed Schultz sounds like he aged three years in one year he's been away from Okinawa!)

Well, anyway, what's tonight's most popular PSA? Right - the reflection order. I thought it was well done, but if it's repeated on AFN every 5 minutes, you suppose there will be anyone left listening by, oh say, 9:30?

ya i jsut saw it too

every 5 mins it was my first time seeing it

[Black Orchid]

According to the commanders channel and AFN, a place of worship is allowed which means it shouldn't need special permission...

my hubbys command is an exception apparently

[Ammoyankee]

my hubbys command is an exception apparently


Well I would go for whatever it takes, I can't see anyone denying right to worship, at least not for long...

[okisteve]

Well I would go for whatever it takes, I can't see anyone denying right to worship, at least not for long...

Can you see the headlines?

[Asshat]

No, its in the order. You can attend worship. No doubt about it.

[DoctorP]

DocP says he worships at SanA, so he's covered!

[Ammoyankee]

No, its in the order. You can attend worship. No doubt about it.


Never forget that stupid little rule that applies to so many things that says local commanders must obey directives but can always issue an order that is more restrictive...

In the case of a Commander requiring special permission for church, I wouldn't think that would go far/last long...

[OtisPMerriweather]

Actually, local commanders can impose further restrictions on those that fall under them, they just can't do anything to make it more lax.

This passed by the base commander at a brief we all had to attend today. Fortunately, he has not done so, but just because the message says one thing doesn't mean that the local O-6 level commander cannot impose his will on the troops.

It's the same as the drinking policy (which will probably be going back up to 21 now) a local commander can secure drinking priviliges, liberty, etc. at his discretion.

[wkarma]

I really hope that someone's Japanese national wife is given shit for going to Jusco that will be a media nightmare for us, I can see it now "US Government now placing restrictions on Japanese Citizens ability to move freely through their own country."


Im not to sure if a Japanese Citizen is actually command sponsord, or they are here on there citizenship and because they are married to a sofa status person thay have sofa status privledges.

Peace

[Ammoyankee]

Im not to sure if a Japanese Citizen is actually command sponsord, or they are here on there citizenship and because they are married to a sofa status person thay have sofa status privledges.

Peace

They are command sponsored or you wouldn't get the COLA or housing entitlements for them...

[socalheart]

random related question: Why do the rest of us have to be punished with a lockdown, because the guys in trouble didn't have friends and fellow whatevers watching out for them? I don't know those guys from Bob; so, why am I suddenly a stranger's keeper? It's like saying I'm responsible for what Hillary Clinton does, because she is an American female. WTF?! over.

[Steganos]

Unless you were the duty NCO on the evening the young men did the DUI/Passout on the couch trick, or perhaps their supervisor, you can do nothing.

I put up with military control over every breath I took for over 20 years. I've lived here for three decades and have family here. I know of at least one spouse who is Japanese whose husband is on duty thousands of miles away. She has the kids. Does this make sence to restrict the movement of people like her? People like you?

There were other options. Okay it's an olive branch to our Japanese community.

But still. Staff NCO's are not doing their jobs. This is a military problem, not a SOFA problem. Tell me this is happening because we need to send a unified message to our hosts and I am okay with that. But please sir, do not tell me that I am supposed to take my retired ten years ago ass, current civilian status, and that of my non-American family and contemplate what I can do to prevent this from happening again.

Parting shot: I can and will support this.
You hit the nail on the head on this one, seems to me that for 20 years you always had someone telling you what to do, so now you do not even know how to think on your own. Maybe you can start by not condoning stupid behavior from those that cannot see a difference between "having fun" and being stupid. As for the IDIOT alleged rapist, wheter he did raped the girl or not, a 38 year old has no busisness messing around with 14 year old girls REGADLESS OF WHAT SHE MIGHT BE WEARING. Have any of how who defend this moron have stopped to think that it could have been your own daugther. What would you have done? To me it seems that the Okinawans have patient enougth and are handling this case very civil. BUT I AM STILL MAD ABOUT BEING PUNISHED FOR THIS MORONS DID!

[hankypanky]

Im not to sure if a Japanese Citizen is actually command sponsord, or they are here on there citizenship and because they are married to a sofa status person thay have sofa status privledges.

Peace

doesn't matter what nationality you are as a spouse. sponsorship allows them to draw quarters on base with flights overseas etc, not only laws of sofa status. the only difference would be that being japanese they would fall under japanese law, if they break it as would anyone else in town.

[Medama_Oyaji]

same stuff that happened before will happen again...eventually, local commerce will suffer a bit and the gates will reopen for americans to spend money in town again...folks that have been here a while know this is the truth.

[Asshat]

You hit the nail on the head on this one, seems to me that for 20 years you always had someone telling you what to do, so now you do not even know how to think on your own. Maybe you can start by not condoning stupid behavior from those that cannot see a difference between "having fun" and being stupid. As for the IDIOT alleged rapist, wheter he did raped the girl or not, a 38 year old has no busisness messing around with 14 year old girls REGADLESS OF WHAT SHE MIGHT BE WEARING. Have any of how who defend this moron have stopped to think that it could have been your own daugther. What would you have done? To me it seems that the Okinawans have patient enougth and are handling this case very civil. BUT I AM STILL MAD ABOUT BEING PUNISHED FOR THIS MORONS DID!

Yeah, and we have beat that subject to death in the preceding days. I think it is important to understand most Okinawans are not indicting Marines, or Americans. They realize that people do stupid things.

As far as thinking for myself, I too provide a service for the vast majority of military people on this island, and have quite a few accomplishments of my own.

So I will take your comment that I am unable to think for myself as a grain of salt.

No one here condoned anything, and as far as I am concerned, (and this is the fifth time I have said it) forgetting the age issue, when a woman says "no" it means "no."

However there are parts of this that you are not aware of. Parts that are not politically expedient to publish. I wont call them mitigating factors, however they do shed some light on the lockdown.

I understand your anger. I share it. I do not feel that blanket statements about my intellect, or the intellect of 50,000 people are germain anymore than they would apply to the conduct you exhibitied which would contribute to one or two assholes.

[TheLastDon]

same stuff that happened before will happen again...eventually, local commerce will suffer a bit and the gates will reopen for americans to spend money in town again...folks that have been here a while know this is the truth.

Wow, where you been Medame?

[Medama_Oyaji]

Wow, where you been Medame?

just lurking...

[Isaak Brodsky]

Like I said, how are we going to keep the IDIOTS from doing this to us again? Moaning and complaining will not do.

Good questions with a nice tone of disgust!!

Unless the so-called "lock down" isn't part of an ongoing strategy imposed on military folks here in Okinawa, it is absolutely impossible to prevent in the future the sort of crap we have seen in the past couple of weeks. Take heart, though, because morons turn up in every culture.

Unfortunately, United States military personnel receive the most attention and criticism because of who they are - a foreign power forced upon the local citizenery.

Every time some cross-cultural bridge of mutual understanding is built, some ass-wipe is bound to come 'round and knock it down. This has been the trend.

I think the root problem, though, lies in the military's general arrogance and tacit contempt for local cultures, not just the Okinawan variety. I've been listening to my own university students for the past fourteen years express some of the most un-informed, unsavoury and downright ignorant observations about Okinawans. Their observations reflect what military folks tend to think of Koreans too when I was teaching in Korea fifteen and sixteen years ago. Of course, I am in no way suggesting here that all military members are arrogant and stupid.

It is just that a fairly significant number of Americans representing the military tend to say and do things that are entirely contrary to being an ambassador.

It is, in fact, outrageous that the military establishment itself neither requires nor provides adequate training for incoming personnel to at least raise awareness of the historical and cultural uniqueness of a foreign area of operations. If you asked most military folks what exactly they are doing here, you'd probably hear a fantastic range of responses. If you asked most military folks about the history of Okinawa since WWII, you'd probably hear the same.

Since members of the military are only serving on a "tour," it is only reasonable for those members to feel a remote interest in the local people, culture and history. Perhaps the most significant undoing of America's military might throughout the globe is its lack of motivation to learn anything about those with whom it comes in contact.

So far, when a crisis emerges, like the one that precipitated the “lock down,” the mandatory re-training begins, and this pathetically paltry approach to fixing the deeper problem is just not adequate.

If you want to keep the morons in check, change their attitudes about who they are, what they represent, and how they should treat their neighbours.

[sosareyes]

http://www.dprkstudies.org/documents/asia015.html


Many Japanese and Okinawan NGOs seek the reduction or removal of USFJ (U.S. Forces Japan) from Okinawa, where American troops have been stationed since taking the island in World War II.

One of the primary justifications given is that USFJ uses nearly 75 percent of the island for military facilities. (Japan Oks, 1997) However, another angle often used is that USFJ personnel commit relatively more, and more violent, crimes compared to native residents:

Japan called on the U.S. military on Wednesday to crack down on crimes by servicemen, a day after police issued an arrest warrant for a U.S. Marine for attempted rape on Okinawa, home to most of the U.S. forces in Japan. (Lies, 2002)

This perception is often echoed:

For some local Okinawans, the attack only served to reinforce their feeling that the forces are not welcome on the island. “These incidents happen again and again. There seems to be no end to crimes against Okinawans,” said Hagu Kido, a 25-year-old computer salesman who works near Kadena. In the past the people of Okinawa have reacted with fury to crimes committed by US forces, whose presence dominates the island. (Japan rape, 2001) [emphasis added]

This begs the question: Do U.S. service members stationed in Okinawa actually commit more crime than the local population? If so, how much more crime do American service members in Okinawa commit? According to the available statistics, the answer is not only that USFJ members do not commit more crime, but that they actually commit several times less crime than Okinawans.

In order to reach this conclusion with any level of confidence, one needs some specific information:

1.) The number of U.S. SOFA [1] status personnel (active duty service members, civilians & dependents) in Okinawa:

There are approximately 50,000 SOFA status personnel in Okinawa. This includes about 21,000 Marines, 8,000 civilian employees, 12,000 dependents, and about 9,000 USAF active duty, civilian, and dependents. (Active Duty, 2002; Major Marine, 2003 & Deployment, 1994)

2.) The number of male Okinawans in a comparable age group to the SOFA status group (roughly 15-50), and the ratio of Okinawans vs. SOFA status:

Japan’s population is about 127 million. Okinawa’s population is about 1.29 million, or about 1 percent of Japan’s population.

The number of males in the most likely age group to commit crimes (15-64) in Japan is approximately 43 million, or 33 percent of the population. The comparable number of Okinawan males is about 426,000. However, since the likelihood of committing a crime tapers severely after 50 (i.e., senior citizens rarely commit violent crimes), the group of Okinawan males will be reduced to about 400,000. (World Factbook, 2002 & Outline, 2001)

SOFA status personnel at 50,000 vs. 400,000 comparable Okinawans yield a ratio of 1:8. SOFA personnel make up about 3.9 percent of the overall Okinawan population, and about 20 percent of the most likely offender population (this is skewed slightly in favor of the Okinawans since Japanese males are excluded, while SOFA females and children are included).

3.) Data on the numbers of crimes committed by both Japanese and military in Okinawa & putting the numbers together:

SOFA personnel comprise approximately 3.9 percent of the populating and committed about 1.7 percent of crimes (average, 1972-2001), or about half as much crime compared to the entire population of Okinawa. In the past ten years of data (1992-2001) SOFA personnel committed only 0.82 percent of crimes in Okinawa, or nearly five times less than the general population. (The Number of, 2001)

Although this does not take into account a very small fraction of crimes committed on USFJ installations, there is no possible way to deny that USFJ personnel commit several times less than the native population on Okinawa. Links in the references section below are available for anyone who would like to verify the above conclusion.

Japanese, NGO members, or anyone else who continues to insist that, “There seems to be no end to crimes against Okinawans,” are not obviously not aware of the facts, or are purposely dissemination misleading information in order to further other ends likely related to the removal of USFJ from Okinawa and Japan.



References:


Active Duty Military Personnel Strengths by Regional Area and By Country. (2002). Department of Defense. Retrieved 2003 June 14 from,
http://web1.whs.osd.mil/mmid/m05/hst0902.pdf

Deployment of U.S. Forces in Okinawa. (1994) Japan Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Retrieved 2003 June 14 from,
http://www.mofa.go.jp/region/n-america/us/q&a/ref/10c.html

Japan OKs law to continue U.S. bases on Okinawa. (1997). CNN. Retrieved 2003 June 16 from, http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9704/17/us.okinawa/

Japan rape report worries US. (2001). BBC. Retrieved 2003 June 16 from, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1414851.stm

Lies, Elaine. (2002). Japan Calls For Crackdown On US Military Crime. Retrieved 2003 June 16 from, http://www.rense.com/general32/crackdown.htm

Major Marine Corps Installations, District Headquarters and Reserve Commands. (2003). USMC. Retrieved 2003 June 14 from, http://mcrsc.mfr.usmc.mil/GuideBook/AppendixA/MCInstallations.asp

Outline of Okinawa. (2001). Retrieved 2003 June 14 from, http://ogb.go.jp/move/english/ooo.htm

The Number of Criminal Cases in which SOFA Status People have been Arrested. (2001). [2] Retrieved 2003 June 14 from,
http://www2.pref.okinawa.jp/oki/okinawa.nsf/98ec0e16075d27aa
492567340044e504/6b5dda8761e27dd049256b7200236c4d?OpenDocument

World Factbook. (2002). CIA. Retrieved 2003 June 14 from,
http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ja.html#People

[Asshat]

Ian, I really want to argue with you on this....but I can not. I agree completely. Well said. Sad, but well said.

One caviot to your words, however is to not paint everyone in the same brush. I spoke with military leaders today who have Okinawan wives, and have lived here for decades.

American views of non-American idiology is another subject. However when you go there, please take into account that she is a young country and did not have the opportunity to subjegate vast continents like some older countries did...and learn the ensuing lessons vis-a-vis colonialism.

[hankypanky]

lockdown is on the front page of the okinawan newpaper, pretty much word for word of the old mans letter. also, they, the japanese, are sending protesters to okinawa from mainland to raise hell again. these guys are well organized!:cursing:

[Medama_Oyaji]

...I think the root problem, though, lies in the military's general arrogance and tacit contempt for local cultures, not just the Okinawan variety...Of course, I am in no way suggesting here that all military members are arrogant and stupid....It is just that a fairly significant number of Americans representing the military tend to say and do things that are entirely contrary to being an ambassador...

It is, in fact, outrageous that the military establishment itself neither requires nor provides adequate training for incoming personnel to at least raise awareness of the historical and cultural uniqueness of a foreign area of operations. If you asked most military folks what exactly they are doing here, you'd probably hear a fantastic range of responses. If you asked most military folks about the history of Okinawa since WWII, you'd probably hear the same...

...So far, when a crisis emerges, like the one that precipitated the “lock down,” the mandatory re-training begins, and this pathetically paltry approach to fixing the deeper problem is just not adequate...

...If you want to keep the morons in check, change their attitudes about who they are, what they represent, and how they should treat their neighbours.

a lot of us can remember when there was no jrc or new join briefs to try and educate newcomers...i don't think the lock down is a knee jerk reaction to correct something as opposed to appease political idiocy surrounding okinawa. people will do what they do, regardless of lock downs, education or discipline...i don't see anyone talking about the okinawan idiot that was throwing rocks at the apartment buildings or spitting into Y plate cars, telling americans to go home...

[Asshat]

a lot of us can remember when there was no jrc or new join briefs to try and educate newcomers...i don't think the lock down is a knee jerk reaction to correct something as opposed to appease political idiocy surrounding okinawa. people will do what they do, regardless of lock downs, education or discipline...i don't see anyone talking about the okinawan idiot that was throwing rocks at the apartment buildings or spitting into Y plate cars, telling americans to go home...

Lockdown is the CG's method of applying "gomen" money in a traffic accident.

[DoctorP]

a lot of us can remember when there was no jrc or new join briefs to try and educate newcomers...i don't think the lock down is a knee jerk reaction to correct something as opposed to appease political idiocy surrounding okinawa. people will do what they do, regardless of lock downs, education or discipline...i don't see anyone talking about the okinawan idiot that was throwing rocks at the apartment buildings or spitting into Y plate cars, telling americans to go home...

DocP remembers all of that, but he also thinks this stand down should have been done last weekend instead!

[TheLastDon]

Yep, but we have to support him for doing it.

[Medama_Oyaji]

...but he also thinks this stand down should have been done last weekend instead!

the same stuff that happened this past weekend happens a lot...let's not act like drunken idiots "crashing" in a local's house is a new thing...neither are dui's...this past weekend, last year or 1 year from now...those things will happen. it's disheartening to admit that but it's the truth.

[Isaak Brodsky]

Ian, I really want to argue with you on this....but I can not. I agree completely. Well said. Sad, but well said.

One caviot to your words, however is to not paint everyone in the same brush. I spoke with military leaders today who have Okinawan wives, and have lived here for decades.

American views of non-American idiology is another subject. However when you go there, please take into account that she is a young country and did not have the opportunity to subjegate vast continents like some older countries did...and learn the ensuing lessons vis-a-vis colonialism.

Dear Uminchu,

I think that I have taken great care not to digress into hasty generalizations about military folks. Please say that I haven't.

I have, though, merely pointed out what appears to be a trend. This trend has not really changed, either, since my days in Panama.

At the least, I think that some enterprising and aspiring anthropologist could take a closer look at the shift in general attitudes of American military personnel since Vietnam.

Cheers.

[Medama_Oyaji]

i am checking...i scared all the kids off the sea wall earlier.

[DoctorP]

the same stuff that happened this past weekend happens a lot...let's not act like drunken idiots "crashing" in a local's house is a new thing...neither are dui's...this past weekend, last year or 1 year from now...those things will happen. it's disheartening to admit that but it's the truth.

Wow...you make it sound like it is ok. That's scary. The fact that these last two were both "routine" incidents do not and will not make anyone feel better...perhaps that is just the problem, no one sees this as being a big deal if a guy that you don't know comes in and sleeps on your couch.

I'd have killed the bastard myself, whether it happened here or in the US.

[Asshat]

Dear Uminchu,

I think that I have taken great care not to digress into hasty generalizations about military folks. Please say that I haven't.

I have, though, merely pointed out what appears to be a trend. This trend has not really changed, either, since my days in Panama.

At the least, I think that some enterprising and aspiring anthropologist could take a closer look at the shift in general attitudes of American military personnel since Vietnam.

Cheers.

It was this statement Ian:

It is, in fact, outrageous that the military establishment itself neither requires nor provides adequate training for incoming personnel to at least raise awareness of the historical and cultural uniqueness of a foreign area of operations. If you asked most military folks what exactly they are doing here, you'd probably hear a fantastic range of responses.

This is something you aver, yet have no proof it is the case. You may say, "the proof is in the pudding." And to that I would say, these are young lads, which if I am interpreting you correctly, provide a degree of sustainence to you who are in their teens in most cases.

All of those troops by the way, know they are here protecting Japanese oil interests, and their pervasive fear of NK.

[Medama_Oyaji]

...I'd have killed the bastard myself, whether it happened here or in the US.

i agree. i am not condoning their behavior or my desensitization to the fact that it happens way too often. no need to be afraid, docp...

[roxy_skyy]

I hope this whole situation proves to the Marines that this isn't a joke. I'm sure there are a lot of things that military members get away with that we're not aware of on a regular basis. I know that most people are mad....yes I'm upset as well but if this shows the Marines that no one is playing around and just lowering rank or getting a pay cut isn't much of a option anymore, then maybe just maybe they'll take it seriously and maybe as someone said earlier (forgive me I forgot) it'll influence the Marines to use peer pressure in a good way.

I enjoy being off base I explore and learn new things and now I'm confined to my home and my work place for something I had no control over so having a positive outlook on this might actually help me get through it a little quicker.

(Atleast I have more time for JU) :thumbup:

[Steganos]

Good questions with a nice tone of disgust!!

Unless the so-called "lock down" isn't part of an ongoing strategy imposed on military folks here in Okinawa, it is absolutely impossible to prevent in the future the sort of crap we have seen in the past couple of weeks. Take heart, though, because morons turn up in every culture.

Unfortunately, United States military personnel receive the most attention and criticism because of who they are - a foreign power forced upon the local citizenery.

Every time some cross-cultural bridge of mutual understanding is built, some ass-wipe is bound to come 'round and knock it down. This has been the trend.

I think the root problem, though, lies in the military's general arrogance and tacit contempt for local cultures, not just the Okinawan variety. I've been listening to my own university students for the past fourteen years express some of the most un-informed, unsavoury and downright ignorant observations about Okinawans. Their observations reflect what military folks tend to think of Koreans too when I was teaching in Korea fifteen and sixteen years ago. Of course, I am in no way suggesting here that all military members are arrogant and stupid.

It is just that a fairly significant number of Americans representing the military tend to say and do things that are entirely contrary to being an ambassador.

It is, in fact, outrageous that the military establishment itself neither requires nor provides adequate training for incoming personnel to at least raise awareness of the historical and cultural uniqueness of a foreign area of operations. If you asked most military folks what exactly they are doing here, you'd probably hear a fantastic range of responses. If you asked most military folks about the history of Okinawa since WWII, you'd probably hear the same.

Since members of the military are only serving on a "tour," it is only reasonable for those members to feel a remote interest in the local people, culture and history. Perhaps the most significant undoing of America's military might throughout the globe is its lack of motivation to learn anything about those with whom it comes in contact.

So far, when a crisis emerges, like the one that precipitated the “lock down,” the mandatory re-training begins, and this pathetically paltry approach to fixing the deeper problem is just not adequate.

If you want to keep the morons in check, change their attitudes about who they are, what they represent, and how they should treat their neighbours.
Finally!, something worth reading!

[Asshat]

i agree. i am not condoning their behavior or my desensitization to the fact that it happens way too often. no need to be afraid, docp...

Good words there Medama....desensitization. Perhaps many of us do suffer from that. Spend enough time here, and those items do become somewhat passe.

Imagine waking up to find a drunk foreigner passed out on the couch.

[Medama_Oyaji]

I hope this whole situation proves to the Marines that this isn't a joke. I'm sure there are a lot of things that military members get away with that we're not aware of on a regular basis. I know that most people are mad....yes I'm upset as well but if this shows the Marines that no one is playing around and just lowering rank or getting a pay cut isn't much of a option anymore, then maybe just maybe they'll take it seriously and maybe as someone said earlier (forgive me I forgot) it'll influence the Marines to use peer pressure in a good way.

I enjoy being off base I explore and learn new things and now I'm confined to my home and my work place for something I had no control over so having a positive outlook on this might actually help me get through it a little quicker.

(Atleast I have more time for JU) :thumbup:


there is no peer pressure that can force AMERICANS to behave in other countries if their own parents can't instill simple courtesy in them.

[Medama_Oyaji]

Man I was so hoping to see the banana show this weekend,my master plan has been foiled again!

the man giveth...and he taketh :w00t:

[plan b]

I was here in 1995 when they first had the lockdown and it was actually Japanese business folks that suffered and so they too ralleyed to end the lockdown, so indded local business was hurting...

[Medama_Oyaji]

Yea but he could have waited a bit longer to take away!

true...you can never time these things just right for anyone, i guess :o

[socalheart]

This isn't a new thing for me actually. ;) It probably explains why I chuckled when I first read that part of the article... desensitized. heh.
Imagine waking up to find a drunk foreigner passed out on the couch.

[roxy_skyy]

there is no peer pressure that can force AMERICANS to behave in other countries if their own parents can't instill simple courtesy in them.

True, however I'm just trying to think positive at the moment plus it's not all Americans..just the few who cause problems....

[DoctorP]

Imagine waking up to find a drunk foreigner passed out on the couch.

DocP finds his wife like that sometimes!

[Medama_Oyaji]

...just the few who cause problems....

it just happens to be the face of all of us that everyone gets to see...:(

[TheLastDon]

Yea but he could have waited a bit longer to take away!

Yeah I was hoping to hit a soapie this weekend. :rolleyes:\:-)

[Steganos]

Very informative post. However the issue should not be that U.S. or SOFA status personnel are commiting less crimes against the Okinawans. The real issue is that they should be NO CRIMES at all commited by us against not only Okinawans, but against no one at all.

[Asshat]

Finally!, something worth reading!

It's a shame to see you feel you are so far above. So much for reflection eh?

Or do you somehow contribute to educating young military people?

I assume Ian does that...and if he does it at a contracted facility, his organization is bilking the US gov at the rate that Harvard charges.

[Medama_Oyaji]

DocP finds his wife like that sometimes!

i find myself like that at times....

[Tony Stacks]

They are command sponsored or you wouldn't get the COLA or housing entitlements for them...

Actually that is only half true. If you get COLA for them than they are command sposored but you can get housing without command sponsorship.

[Asshat]

Very informative post. However the issue should not be that U.S. or SOFA status personnel are commiting less crimes against the Okinawans. The real issue is that they should be NO CRIMES at all commited by us against not only Okinawans, but against no one at all.

Agree 100 percent! It should be ZERO and that includes DUI's!

[Medama_Oyaji]

...and that includes DUI's!

for the whole population of the island.

[roxy_skyy]

it just happens to be the face of all of us that everyone gets to see...:(

I know and that's tough on everyone....I hate it I feel like I had to drive down the aisle of shame coming on Kinser this evening when all the local nationals were staring at the few straggling Americans going on base to be sent to their houses....

[TheLastDon]

Agree 100 percent! It should be ZERO and that includes DUI's!

Yeah in a perfect world, not going to happen anywhere.

[hankypanky]

:scared:




Well looks like all those Filipino chicks on gate 2 are gonna have to buy each other drinks for a while LOL

Man I was so hoping to see the banana show this weekend,my master plan has been foiled again!

i'm sure a few of you sofa guys can get together and "produce" your own banana show! let umi have a couple of beers and he will direct it:D

[Asshat]

i'm sure a few of you sofa guys can get together and "produce" your own banana show! let umi have a couple of beers and he will direct it:D

No, I swore, nothing else will ever go up me arse, never!

[TheLastDon]

Maybe we can see DK produce 500 yen coins out of his arse.

[hankypanky]

No, I swore, nothing else will ever go up me arse, never!

no you just need to set the music to the mood, write another song for the "Banana Show".:D

[spike7165]

I thought I would weigh in as I am a Brit on Okinawa and therefore a Japanese resident.
This doesnt apply to me but I'm just waiting for the looks and questions and maybe MPs stopping me when out.
I will of course tell them to f** off as I'm not sofa *(should be quite fun) might go to Gate 2 later just to do that and report to you later what its like.....

Anyway point is, I've got friends in the services and Japanese married to military and this does seem just to be PR.
Why don't the military or in particular the marine command do something useful like limiting the junior ranks to be on base only PERMANENTLY unless they have special permission.
Every time I have seen problems in my two years here it has been young drunk marines, not Army, AF or spouses of military.
My favourite was a young marine in Gate 2 a year ago, very drunk, who proudly said to me...."I kill people" thats all I do and I'm good at it.
With that kind of drunken attitude walking around Japan is it any wonder Okinawans backlash?

[Asshat]

I thought I would weigh in as I am a Brit on Okinawa and therefore a Japanese resident.
This doesnt apply to me but I'm just waiting for the looks and questions and maybe MPs stopping me when out.
I will of course tell them to f** off as I'm not sofa *(should be quite fun) might go to Gate 2 later just to do that and report to you later what its like.....

Anyway point is, I've got friends in the services and Japanese married to military and this does seem just to be PR.
Why don't the military or in particular the marine command do something useful like limiting the junior ranks to be on base only PERMANENTLY unless they have special permission.
Every time I have seen problems in my two years here it has been young drunk marines, not Army, AF or spouses of military.
My favourite was a young marine in Gate 2 a year ago, very drunk, who proudly said to me...."I kill people" thats all I do and I'm good at it.
With that kind of drunken attitude walking around Japan is it any wonder Okinawans backlash?


Yo spike, you'd love the convo a friend of mine had with some of your military countrymen on the island of Diego Garcia! lol..

I agree with your point that those who mess up be held accountable, but please, the "attitude" you speak of is prevailant amoung our warriors.

If I weren't in my cups, I'd relate the story. Your bad asses are badder than our badasses however!

Cheers!

[hankypanky]

I thought I would weigh in as I am a Brit on Okinawa and therefore a Japanese resident.
This doesnt apply to me but I'm just waiting for the looks and questions and maybe MPs stopping me when out.
I will of course tell them to f** off as I'm not sofa *(should be quite fun) might go to Gate 2 later just to do that and report to you later what its like.....

Anyway point is, I've got friends in the services and Japanese married to military and this does seem just to be PR.
Why don't the military or in particular the marine command do something useful like limiting the junior ranks to be on base only PERMANENTLY unless they have special permission.
Every time I have seen problems in my two years here it has been young drunk marines, not Army, AF or spouses of military.
My favourite was a young marine in Gate 2 a year ago, very drunk, who proudly said to me...."I kill people" thats all I do and I'm good at it.
With that kind of drunken attitude walking around Japan is it any wonder Okinawans backlash?

being this so call rape was commited by a 38 yo leader of marines, that kinda puts that in the wash. You would have all kinds of problems caging up junior marines. they would go stir crazy. it would be worse than it is now. just like in a combat zone when they would get some free time to drink on r&r.

[Steganos]

It's a shame to see you feel you are so far above. So much for reflection eh?

Or do you somehow contribute to educating young military people?

I assume Ian does that...and if he does it at a contracted facility, his organization is bilking the US gov at the rate that Harvard charges.
No, I gave up trying to educate military people when I realized that you try to put a tuxedo on a monkey, it is still just going to be a monkey wearing a tuxedo, if you know what I mean. What I do is irrelevant to the matters at hand, but the fact of the matter is that I am doing it, and if you must know, it has to do somewhat with keeping the frigging monkey inside its cage.

[Tony Stacks]

Anyway point is, I've got friends in the services and Japanese married to military and this does seem just to be PR.
Why don't the military or in particular the marine command do something useful like limiting the junior ranks to be on base only PERMANENTLY unless they have special permission.



Well lets see it was a SSgt that is suspected of rape, and Cpls over the weekend so what will keeping only the junior ranks on base accomplish?

[Bones]

As posted by Guyjin:

I should have done 20 years that way i could do what the hell I pleased!

Yeah, Guyjin. Maybe you should have.

I've done my 20, am not effected by the lock-down, and I can do whatever I want to do.

Two things to consider here tho:

1. I don't run around the island doing stupid things, like the guy's who got us into this mess.

2. If I do manage to get myself into trouble, I'm on my own. I'll have to face the consequences for my actions. And nobody will be able to bail me out. I don't have the luxury of "SOFA" status. I no longer wear the uniform. I have no job. All legal representation, will have to be paid for by myself.

Does this worry me?

Of course not. Why? Several reasons.

1. At my age, I'm too old to pick up 14 year old kids.

2. At my age, I'm not stupid enough to try to print any kind of currency on my printer, and pass it off on the local economy.

3. On the rare occasions when I get issued a "Kitchen-Pass", I use a Taxi to get me home safely.

4. If I were to go to Hank&Rumi's, my daughter lives close enough to their establishment, where I can just use my key and crash at their place. It might be a long walk/crawl, but nothing that I couldn't handle.

The bottom line is, whenever I have the opportunity to do something on my own (very rarely), we plan for it in advance. There is of course a penalty that would be imposed upon me by our family, but it pales to what the legal system would impose upon me if I were caught by local law enforcement officials.

Just because I have served my time, does not equate to a "Free Pass", from the local authorities.

NBTP

[spike7165]

I do see your point and why a 38 yr old hooks up with a 14 year old is another story, I was more referring to the guy who ended up on the sofa of a Japanese house and the DUI over the weekend.
Not sure how old they were, but they were the ones who tipped Zilmer too far though of course the other guy started it.
Maybe the answer is to make the punishments for any kind of incident a lot harsher for individuals?
I just cant see how this helps anyone really long term. When the curfew comes up Gate 2 will be full again of drunken fighting guys.
I know a lot of them do a great job and so do my countrymen alongside you often fighting in something they may not believe in but they believe in their country but they do need to understand the Japanese mentality better and that regardless of the fact they have sofa status they ARE in a foreign country where attitudes are different to the UK and USA

[Asshat]

No, I gave up trying to educate military people when I realized that you try to put a tuxedo on a monkey, it is still just going to be a monkey wearing a tuxedo, if you know what I mean. What I do is irrelevant to the matters at hand, but the fact of the matter is that I am doing it, and if you must know, it has to do somewhat with keeping the frigging monkey inside its cage.

Excellent post Steganos. You got me chuckling on that one, and indeed keeping the monkey in the cage is what many of us are relegated to doing. (For a buck)

Ah, I could relate stories, but the wrong format here. Problem I have (and for another day) is that our government wants the monkey in and out of his cage, but only when told to do so. A difficult situation for any monkey, especially one in his teens.

But as long as the oil flows and the military industrial complex is adequately fueled, these little errors are easily corrected by telling you and I we are "grounded" in the corner 'till further notice.

In that, we are all monkeys I fear.

[spike7165]

Completely agree with No Bones to Pic
I behave myself completely here and drive carefully not because I'm a great guy.. but because I know what the legal system can do to you here.
I too have no protection therefore am very careful not to break any local laws.
SOFA maybe is a blessing and a curse in the minds of those who misbehave

[macker]

When this lockdown is over I'm going to go out and get SOOOO FVCKED UP!!!!

[Asshat]

I do see your point and why a 38 yr old hooks up with a 14 year old is another story, I was more referring to the guy who ended up on the sofa of a Japanese house and the DUI over the weekend.
Not sure how old they were, but they were the ones who tipped Zilmer too far though of course the other guy started it.
Maybe the answer is to make the punishments for any kind of incident a lot harsher for individuals?
I just cant see how this helps anyone really long term. When the curfew comes up Gate 2 will be full again of drunken fighting guys.
I know a lot of them do a great job and so do my countrymen alongside you often fighting in something they may not believe in but they believe in their country but they do need to understand the Japanese mentality better and that regardless of the fact they have sofa status they ARE in a foreign country where attitudes are different to the UK and USA


In this sir, we agree. Good post and very salient. Diego Garcia isn't Okinawa after all.

[TheLastDon]

When this lockdown is over I'm going to go out and get SOOOO FVCKED UP!!!!

how's this different from any other time macker?

[Tony Stacks]

When this lockdown is over I'm going to go out and get SOOOO FVCKED UP!!!!


Go to the shoppette and buy some booze

[spike7165]

Exactly and thanks
Maybe its because I FEEL like I am living in Japan when I come here which makes me more likely to obey Japanese law (apart from other reasons)
But when send here on PCS, maybe the younger guys feel like they are still in the US, apart from their base they have pretty much the same facilities, same language, still paid in dollars etc. So to them Okinawa is the same as Diego Garcia as Texas etc.
And if thats true, no one is going to be able to do a lot about changing how someone FEELS about living in Okinawa

[Steganos]

Excellent post Steganos. You got me chuckling on that one, and indeed keeping the monkey in the cage is what many of us are relegated to doing. (For a buck)

Ah, I could relate stories, but the wrong format here. Problem I have (and for another day) is that our government wants the monkey in and out of his cage, but only when told to do so. A difficult situation for any monkey, especially one in his teens.

But as long as the oil flows and the military industrial complex is adequately fueled, these little errors are easily corrected by telling you and I we are "grounded" in the corner 'till further notice.

In that, we are all monkeys I fear.
Hot damn! It's a frigging monkey world! I'm going to have me a banana BUT NOT FOR THE SHOW THAT HAS BEEN MENTIONED HERE.

[Asshat]

Exactly and thanks
Maybe its because I FEEL like I am living in Japan when I come here which makes me more likely to obey Japanese law (apart from other reasons)
But when send here on PCS, maybe the younger guys feel like they are still in the US, apart from their base they have pretty much the same facilities, same language, still paid in dollars etc. So to them Okinawa is the same as Diego Garcia as Texas etc.
And if thats true, no one is going to be able to do a lot about changing how someone FEELS about living in Okinawa

True, and when I was serving, I saw the attitudes you and Ian (in another post) speak of. This is my home too. I suppose I have became used to living with a group of people who come and go and maintain a feeling of temporary life.

In the end, there is no way to change this attitude, but there is a way to curb the outward displays of it. It is called diplomacy of course. In my emplyment here, I have noted...

A difficult way with words here, but a more calous approach, or an attitude that say's "sot it, they pay me to kill people, and now I come here for a few months and they expect me to forget all that."

This speaks of another issue haunting the US Gov re certain syndromes. I do see this first hand.

[socalheart]

When this lockdown is over, I'm going to go out and eat at my favorite buffet and restaurants!!! :w00t: In the mean time I guess I'll eat whatever the husband cooks. sigh... heh.
When this lockdown is over I'm going to go out and get SOOOO FVCKED UP!!!!

[treqi]

I really hope this doesn't effect my move off base the was hopefully happening next week:argh3::mad:.... what do you guys think? My housing agent is really confident but the Army has yet to approve a 4187......... ugh this could not have happened at a worse time my friends mom is coming from Antarctica on Monday and all of our activities will now be restricted to bases ugh......

[Steganos]

When this lockdown is over, I'm going to go out and eat at my favorite buffet and restaurants!!! :w00t: In the mean time I guess I'll eat whatever the husband cooks. sigh... heh.
When this lockdown is over, I am to pig out on Soba, and the first idiot that I see acting stupid..., welll... I'll just going to have to educate his ignorant ass.

[Asshat]

I really hope this doesn't effect my move off base the was hopefully happening next week:argh3::mad:.... what do you guys think? My housing agent is really confident but the Army has yet to approve a 4187......... ugh this could not have happened at a worse time my friends mom is coming from Antarctica on Monday and all of our activities will now be restricted to bases ugh......

According to the reg, you can request exemptions and approved by O6. I don't see a problem.

[spike7165]

Not sure about the move treqi, I was speaking to a housing agent today who said no-one is even allowed to go and pay their rent!

[msifive]

Not sure about the move treqi, I was speaking to a housing agent today who said no-one is even allowed to go and pay their rent!

That weird seeing that we can still pay are car notes. O.o

[Medama_Oyaji]

...who said no-one is even allowed to go and pay their rent!

that's a bit of a stretch...the old man did mention we "may" have to get into charlies to go pay bills...:rolleyes:

[Traveller]

Uminchu, Ian Brody and Steganos. Kudos to you for some well thought out words. For the most part, I line up alongside in agreement.

It seems, though, that there's an awful lot of quasi-alibi'ing for the behavior of the military. Being here, away from home, in a new culture not necessarily of their choosing. B.S. Common sense conduct should be applied everywhere. I wonder how many of us would even think of doing the same things back home as we do here. There are idiots of every ilk everywhere int he world, but the moral code of conduct somehow seems to get ignored "because we're far away".

It IS a military problem, and not a SOFA problem. Where has leadership slipped? And I mean from top to bottom. What have senior officers been doing to instill fair and balanced (sorry Fox News) disciplinary policies, and then enforce them? What about company grade officers? Many of them behave like the corporals. And now, to the real crux of the matter: Staff NCO's are not filling their roles like they should, and like they used to. How much are they checking? Do their troops know, understand, and maybe even worry about the gunny nailing them for doing something stupid?

How many take the buddy system seriously? What are we doing to make sure the system works? Can't be sitting home with mama while the young bucks head for Gate 2 Street or Kin or wherever. The majority of incidents I can recall over the past few years could well have been prevented if the buddy was where he was supposed to be. How about the guy who drowned downtown 3-4 years ago by Naha Music. People had seen him drinking on Kokusai, including officers and staff NCO's, he didn't have a buddy, and nobody intervened (could it have put a damper on their personal time, leading them to place self over mission?). Drunk, he died alone.

Let's police our own. We'll not be perfect, but it certainly can't be a worse situation than the lockdown we're now in. The CG can't do it alone, and let's remember he's catching hell like we most likely never will

[treqi]

According to the reg, you can request exemptions and approved by O6. I don't see a problem.

unfortunately my husband is only an E-3 with a CoC that is less than kind to him ..... my hands are completely tied and I :cursing:HATE!!!:cursing: it........

[smhersweetie]

Okay...this thread is just jumping and still reading it!! I don't really care to go out or not, but when I crave Coco's and Sushi I'm gonna be pissed!! Glad I ate it a few days ago otherwise I'd be wanting to beat those D**BA$$3$ who made those poor decisions!! And if I see that 14 yr. old girl I will beat her A$$ for going with the guy!! And if the parents aren't punishing her for going with the guy...well they can ROT in hell!!

[Asshat]

unfortunately my husband is only an E-3 with a CoC that is less than kind to him ..... my hands are completely tied and I :cursing:HATE!!!:cursing: it........

Chill woman. This wont last. Get out and enjoy yourself. Trust me. It gets better.

[Medama_Oyaji]

...Let's police our own...

we keep saying that...people slip through the cracks...while everyone's been cracking down on the jr. nco's, the ssgt decided to slip us a mickey...the good ol' days of SP's/MP's and such being out in the ville need to be brought back. noone fears a paper punishment but i know an ass whooping would give me pause...

[Steganos]

I'm all for that, bring back the SP/MP patrolling the streets again!, better yet make joint patrols with the local police, like we used to do in Germany.

[Steganos]

we keep saying that...people slip through the cracks...while everyone's been cracking down on the jr. nco's, the ssgt decided to slip us a mickey...the good ol' days of SP's/MP's and such being out in the ville need to be brought back. noone fears a paper punishment but i know an ass whooping would give me pause...
That's the problem right there, a 38 year old trying to slip right into some 14 year old's crack.

[Brand_X]

WOW I am so glad I am out and not SOFA anymore. Its sucks that a few can ruin it for so many but the service members are not looking out for each other. My unit was locked down for 3 months before. People will get by and things will get better. I dont think a service lock down is the way to go but I am not the man in charge. Why not lock down the units that get put in the blotter? Maybe stop throwing around these "little" NJPs and hand out some courts martials. There are better ways of correcting misbehavior then to say "You, You, and You ****** up so screw everyone. There are some of the best poeple in the world serving here who would have done anything they could have to prevent these problems but are not in a position to police everyone. A guy on Kinser how is he gonna stop a guy on schawb from doing something stupid? He cant if he isnt there or dosent know that something is going on.

The military here is given way to much freedom and so many are allowed to live off base that have no reason to. If your married to a local national or there is no billiting are the only reasons you should have off base housing. But thats a different issue.

I dont think the lock down will hurt anyone but the communities just off base and they are some of the few supporters the military has here.

[Tony Stacks]

[QUOTE=Brand_X;65781]

The military here is given way to much freedom and so many are allowed to live off base that have no reason to. If your married to a local national or there is no billiting are the only reasons you should have off base housing. But thats a different issue.
QUOTE]


BULLSHIT they get a lot less freedom here than they do in the states.

[Medama_Oyaji]

BULLSHIT they get a lot less freedom here than they do in the states.

as we should...

[Steganos]

[QUOTE=Brand_X;65781]

The military here is given way to much freedom and so many are allowed to live off base that have no reason to. If your married to a local national or there is no billiting are the only reasons you should have off base housing. But thats a different issue.
QUOTE]


BULLSHIT they get a lot less freedom here than they do in the states.
Hey, kevlar head!, we are not in the States!!

[Tony Stacks]

[QUOTE=Tony Stacks;65782]
Hey, kevlar head!, we are not in the States!!


i said they get way less freedom then they do in the states so I already said we re not in the states asshat.

i was a Marine but shit like this is y i got out. Punishing everyone for the actions of a few is utter bullshit:cursing:

still love the Corps and i feel sorry for u guys to have to pay for what a few dumbasses did

[Tony Stacks]

as we should...

no u shouldnt

[Medama_Oyaji]

no u shouldnt

never said i liked it...

[Tony Stacks]

never said i liked it...

never said you said you liked it

[Steganos]

[QUOTE=Steganos;65784]


i said they get way less freedom then they do in the states so I already said we re not in the states asshat.

i was a Marine but shit like this is y i got out. Punishing everyone for the actions of a few is utter bullshit:cursing:

still love the Corps and i feel sorry for u guys to have to pay for what a few dumbasses did
What a bunch of malarky!, you got out because you didn't had the discipline to be part of a solution. So you ran away from the problem, way to go!!

[LuvOki]

I 100% agree it should be a time of reflection to see where the root of the problem lies. The reflection should start with a social study focusing on incidents by severity through the 70s, 80s, 90s, and today. I would surmise the results would illustrate a decrease of incidents through each of the respective decades. Also, I would guess the percentages are relatively proportionate or lower than those same numbers taken from any stateside base for each corresponding decade. However, the most important and telling numbers would relate to the often held view the respective military service is a direct reflection of American society during that point in time...in essence a snapshot of American society in general. I hold this view and would wager the military incident numbers would be proportionate with those of the corresponding decade for the average American environment. Finally, I would guess the final conclusions from such a study would support the notion the problem doesn't lie deep within the belly of the service or in a total break down of good order amongst our service members as has been put forth here and many other places. It wouldn't support the case of the "old school" was much better than the "new school" or a lack of discipline is an intrinsic characteristic of our services. It would conclude the number of incidents are within the social norms of American military and civilian societies for each corresponding period. Is the DoD ready to address the social problems of American society in general? For arguments sake let's say these assumptions turned out to be correct. We could predict these types of events will happen again and again over the years in any normal "American" environment. How will a "lockdown" do anything to help...it hasn't before and won't in my opinion. The bottom line is it's just an appeasement measure. It will stand until those who wanted it have gotten their goals accomplished, their message across, or just before it begins to be transparent to the masses...both Americans and Okinawans. We are pawns in a political chess match between prefectural leaders and the Japanese government. The prefectural leaders are sick of bearing the majority of the American military footprint. The media is an awesome tool and can be used for many things from many angles. It's been used in this instance to showcase and spin the burden of hosting a massive US military presence. Their goal is to show, albeit falsely, the recent incidents as proof the lack of order and discipline is endemic to all US military services and is a direct reflection of each and every service member and American in Okinawa. It's designed to show "that what we (Okinawans) are forced to endure each day". Now don't be confused with my use of the word "Okinawans". I am not speaking of the average Okinawan here in this post. Do we honestly believe the majority of Okinawans think the majority of Americans are uncontrollable heathens hell bent on pillaging the island and its people while going on weekend long benders? It's merely one party exploiting a situation for political gain and it happens all the time throughout America too. It's just part of the game and we'll wait it out until it wears off. We'll do it all over again sometime down the road when another incident can be used. Now with that said, I am not condoning or justifying the actions of anyone and feel any violations should be dealt with in accordance with both US military and Okinawan laws. In closing, remember these are merely the assumptions and opinions of one person and please please don't fall for the hype.

[Medama_Oyaji]

I 100% agree it should be a time of reflection to see where the root of the problem lies. The reflection should start with a social study focusing on incidents by severity through the 70s, 80s, 90s, and today. I would surmise the results would illustrate a decrease of incidents through each of the respective decades. Also, I would guess the percentages are relatively proportionate or lower than those same numbers taken from any stateside base for each corresponding decade. However, the most important and telling numbers would relate to the often held view the respective military service is a direct reflection of American society during that point in time...in essence a snapshot of American society in general. I hold this view and would wager the military incident numbers would be proportionate with those of the corresponding decade for the average American environment. Finally, I would guess the final conclusions from such a study would support the notion the problem doesn't lie deep within the belly of the service or in a total break down of good order amongst our service members as has been put forth here and many other places. It wouldn't support the case of the "old school" was much better than the "new school" or a lack of discipline is an intrinsic characteristic of our services. It would conclude the number of incidents are within the social norms of American military and civilian societies for each corresponding period. Is the DoD ready to address the social problems of American society in general? For arguments sake let's say these assumptions turned out to be correct. We could predict these types of events will happen again and again over the years in any normal "American" environment. How will a "lockdown" do anything to help...it hasn't before and won't in my opinion. The bottom line is it's just an appeasement measure. It will stand until those who wanted it have gotten their goals accomplished, their message across, or just before it begins to be transparent to the masses...both Americans and Okinawans. We are pawns in a political chess match between prefectural leaders and the Japanese government. The prefectural leaders are sick of bearing the majority of the American military footprint. The media is an awesome tool and can be used for many things from many angles. It's been used in this instance to showcase and spin the burden of hosting a massive US military presence. Their goal is to show, albeit falsely, the recent incidents as proof the lack of order and discipline is endemic to all US military services and is a direct reflection of each and every service member and American in Okinawa. It's designed to show "that what we (Okinawans) are forced to endure each day". Now don't be confused with my use of the word "Okinawans". I am not speaking of the average Okinawan here in this post. Do we honestly believe the majority of Okinawans think the majority of Americans are uncontrollable heathens hell bent on pillaging the island and its people while going on weekend long benders? It's merely one party exploiting a situation for political gain and it happens all the time throughout America too. It's just part of the game and we'll wait it out until it wears off. We'll do it all over again sometime down the road when another incident can be used. Now with that said, I am not condoning or justifying the actions of anyone and feel any violations should be dealt with in accordance with both US military and Okinawan laws. In closing, remember these are merely the assumptions and opinions of one person and please please don't fall for the hype.

what ? :D

[Asshat]

I 100% agree it should be a time of reflection to see where the root of the problem lies. The reflection should start with a social study focusing on incidents by severity through the 70s, 80s, 90s, and today. I would surmise the results would illustrate a decrease of incidents through each of the respective decades. Also, I would guess the percentages are relatively proportionate or lower than those same numbers taken from any stateside base for each corresponding decade. However, the most important and telling numbers would relate to the often held view the respective military service is a direct reflection of American society during that point in time...in essence a snapshot of American society in general. I hold this view and would wager the military incident numbers would be proportionate with those of the corresponding decade for the average American environment. Finally, I would guess the final conclusions from such a study would support the notion the problem doesn't lie deep within the belly of the service or in a total break down of good order amongst our service members as has been put forth here and many other places. It wouldn't support the case of the "old school" was much better than the "new school" or a lack of discipline is an intrinsic characteristic of our services. It would conclude the number of incidents are within the social norms of American military and civilian societies for each corresponding period. Is the DoD ready to address the social problems of American society in general? For arguments sake let's say these assumptions turned out to be correct. We could predict these types of events will happen again and again over the years in any normal "American" environment. How will a "lockdown" do anything to help...it hasn't before and won't in my opinion. The bottom line is it's just an appeasement measure. It will stand until those who wanted it have gotten their goals accomplished, their message across, or just before it begins to be transparent to the masses...both Americans and Okinawans. We are pawns in a political chess match between prefectural leaders and the Japanese government. The prefectural leaders are sick of bearing the majority of the American military footprint. The media is an awesome tool and can be used for many things from many angles. It's been used in this instance to showcase and spin the burden of hosting a massive US military presence. Their goal is to show, albeit falsely, the recent incidents as proof the lack of order and discipline is endemic to all US military services and is a direct reflection of each and every service member and American in Okinawa. It's designed to show "that what we (Okinawans) are forced to endure each day". Now don't be confused with my use of the word "Okinawans". I am not speaking of the average Okinawan here in this post. Do we honestly believe the majority of Okinawans think the majority of Americans are uncontrollable heathens hell bent on pillaging the island and its people while going on weekend long benders? It's merely one party exploiting a situation for political gain and it happens all the time throughout America too. It's just part of the game and we'll wait it out until it wears off. We'll do it all over again sometime down the road when another incident can be used. Now with that said, I am not condoning or justifying the actions of anyone and feel any violations should be dealt with in accordance with both US military and Okinawan laws. In closing, remember these are merely the assumptions and opinions of one person and please please don't fall for the hype.

FYI- the average American only reads one paragraph. Your thoughts are important, but please, help us mentally challenged and use...paragraphs.

[Tony Stacks]

[QUOTE=Tony Stacks;65787]
What a bunch of malarky!, you got out because you didn't had the discipline to be part of a solution. So you ran away from the problem, way to go!!

No I got out because I served my time. I was a Cpl and I took damn good care of MY Marines. I could'nt police the world.

Plus I wanted to be a civilian, and wanted my freedom.

[Redsox'sNation]

But still. Staff NCO's are not doing their jobs. This is a military problem, not a SOFA problem. Tell me this is happening because we need to send a unified message to our hosts and I am okay with that. But please sir, do not tell me that I am supposed to take my retired ten years ago ass, current civilian status, and that of my non-American family and contemplate what I can do to prevent this from happening again.

Parting shot: I can and will support this.

Sir, I as a fellow SNCO, find it very appalling that you would state SNCO's are not doing their jobs. One is only able to control a situation so much. Anyone who thinks he or she can control what their Marines will do 24/7 is a liar not only to themselves but to their senior leaders as well. I hear leaders making statements much like the one you made and realize most of those making that statement have lost touch with reality! I find it very upsetting to see a statement like yours due to the nature behind it. Stating SNCO's are not doing their job leads me to believe you think we are a possible catalyst for the actions which have taken place of over the last 2 weeks and that is unacceptable. We can only educate, direct and honestly pray that our Marines will conduct themselves properly. I, everyday, with my fellow SNCO's preach everyday. I find myself to be a highly educated Marine who has been doing this for a long time. I have seen my fair share of everything the Marine Corps has to offer and I lend my wisdom to my Marines. But, I do not sleep with them here in the rear. I try to eat with them whenever I can, during working hours, because my family deserves my time when I am not required to be at work, they have earned that. I randomly call them to see what they are doing as to give me a somewhat of a feel good but even I feel that is not enough sometimes. So making the statement which you have made offends me as I am sure it would offend many of the SNCO's I know.

[Brand_X]

I was just saying that what we get is too much. I know its less that what we get in the states. Why are there single E-5's and below living off base? It happens a lot. There is no need that will justify it. There are Staff NCO's and Officers that dont have a need to live off base. Its a wast of tax payer dollars and always gives a higher chance or something going wrong. ie bringing an underage girl to your house and forcing yourself on her. would it have happned if he lived on base? who knows. less of a chance though.

Most are just "I wanna live off base because (insert BS reason here)" Most just say "because I want to".

But hey there is a lockdown now so I think things will get more strict and rightfully so.

[LuvOki]

I apologize for the long winded rant lacking in any paragraphs and not confining to the unwritten rules of most forums...but I started going and couldn't stop. I actually got bored re-reading my own post!!

I 100% agree it should be a time of reflection to see where the root of the problem lies. The reflection should start with a social study focusing on incidents by severity through the 70s, 80s, 90s, and today. I would surmise the results would illustrate a decrease of incidents through each of the respective decades. Also, I would guess the percentages are relatively proportionate or lower than those same numbers taken from any stateside base for each corresponding decade. However, the most important and telling numbers would relate to the often held view the respective military service is a direct reflection of American society during that point in time...in essence a snapshot of American society in general. I hold this view and would wager the military incident numbers would be proportionate with those of the corresponding decade for the average American environment.

Finally, I would guess the final conclusions from such a study would support the notion the problem doesn't lie deep within the belly of the service or in a total break down of good order amongst our service members as has been put forth here and many other places. It wouldn't support the case of the "old school" was much better than the "new school" or a lack of discipline is an intrinsic characteristic of our services. It would conclude the number of incidents are within the social norms of American military and civilian societies for each corresponding period. Is the DoD ready to address the social problems of American society in general?

For arguments sake let's say these assumptions turned out to be correct. We could predict these types of events will happen again and again over the years in any normal "American" environment. How will a "lockdown" do anything to help...it hasn't before and won't in my opinion. The bottom line is it's just an appeasement measure. It will stand until those who wanted it have gotten their goals accomplished, their message across, or just before it begins to be transparent to the masses...both Americans and Okinawans. We are pawns in a political chess match between prefectural leaders and the Japanese government.

The prefectural leaders are sick of bearing the majority of the American military footprint. The media is an awesome tool and can be used for many things from many angles. It's been used in this instance to showcase and spin the burden of hosting a massive US military presence. Their goal is to show, albeit falsely, the recent incidents as proof the lack of order and discipline is endemic to all US military services and is a direct reflection of each and every service member and American in Okinawa. It's designed to show "that what we (Okinawans) are forced to endure each day". Now don't be confused with my use of the word "Okinawans". I am not speaking of the average Okinawan here in this post. Do we honestly believe the majority of Okinawans think the majority of Americans are uncontrollable heathens hell bent on pillaging the island and its people while going on weekend long benders? It's merely one party exploiting a situation for political gain and it happens all the time throughout America too. It's just part of the game and we'll wait it out until it wears off. We'll do it all over again sometime down the road when another incident can be used.

Now with that said, I am not condoning or justifying the actions of anyone and feel any violations should be dealt with in accordance with both US military and Okinawan laws. In closing, remember these are merely the assumptions and opinions of one person and please please don't fall for the hype.

[Brand_X]

THings are getting crazy and you cant blame anybody but those who did it and those who where in a position to stop it. This isnt our country so why should we get freedome here? Its a gift not a right.

The states its a gift and a right.

[Asshat]

Sir, I as a fellow SNCO, find it very appalling that you would state SNCO's are not doing their jobs. One is only able to control a situation so much. Anyone who thinks he or she can control what their Marines will do 24/7 is a liar not only to themselves but to their senior leaders as well. I hear leaders making statements much like the one you made and realize most of those making that statement have lost touch with reality! I find it very upsetting to see a statement like yours due to the nature behind it. Stating SNCO's are not doing their job leads me to believe you think we are a possible catalyst for the actions which have taken place of over the last 2 weeks and that is unacceptable. We can only educate, direct and honestly pray that our Marines will conduct themselves properly. I, everyday, with my fellow SNCO's preach everyday. I find myself to be a highly educated Marine who has been doing this for a long time. I have seen my fair share of everything the Marine Corps has to offer and I lend my wisdom to my Marines. But, I do not sleep with them here in the rear. I try to eat with them whenever I can, during working hours, because my family deserves my time when I am not required to be at work, they have earned that. I randomly call them to see what they are doing as to give me a somewhat of a feel good but even I feel that is not enough sometimes. So making the statement which you have made offends me as I am sure it would offend many of the SNCO's I know.


Ok, fine. But as a retired Marine and Staff NCO, I don't have a problem with saying what I said. Now as a retired Marine, and SOFA employee, my liberty is secured.

So you tell me Marine, what am I supposed to feel here? Maybe you didn't **** up, but someone did, and as the heartbeat of the Corps, that SNCO let some shit bird slip through the cracks.

And the liberty card policy also ran by SNCO's has failed too.

So are you in the Army of One, or are you your brother's keeper? Not you personally, but you get my point.

[blazingdrgnx]

I 100% agree it should be a time of reflection to see where the root of the problem lies. The reflection should start with a social study focusing on incidents by severity through the 70s, 80s, 90s, and today. I would surmise the results would illustrate a decrease of incidents through each of the respective decades. Also, I would guess the percentages are relatively proportionate or lower than those same numbers taken from any stateside base for each corresponding decade. However, the most important and telling numbers would relate to the often held view the respective military service is a direct reflection of American society during that point in time...in essence a snapshot of American society in general. I hold this view and would wager the military incident numbers would be proportionate with those of the corresponding decade for the average American environment. Finally, I would guess the final conclusions from such a study would support the notion the problem doesn't lie deep within the belly of the service or in a total break down of good order amongst our service members as has been put forth here and many other places. It wouldn't support the case of the "old school" was much better than the "new school" or a lack of discipline is an intrinsic characteristic of our services. It would conclude the number of incidents are within the social norms of American military and civilian societies for each corresponding period. Is the DoD ready to address the social problems of American society in general? For arguments sake let's say these assumptions turned out to be correct. We could predict these types of events will happen again and again over the years in any normal "American" environment. How will a "lockdown" do anything to help...it hasn't before and won't in my opinion. The bottom line is it's just an appeasement measure. It will stand until those who wanted it have gotten their goals accomplished, their message across, or just before it begins to be transparent to the masses...both Americans and Okinawans. We are pawns in a political chess match between prefectural leaders and the Japanese government. The prefectural leaders are sick of bearing the majority of the American military footprint. The media is an awesome tool and can be used for many things from many angles. It's been used in this instance to showcase and spin the burden of hosting a massive US military presence. Their goal is to show, albeit falsely, the recent incidents as proof the lack of order and discipline is endemic to all US military services and is a direct reflection of each and every service member and American in Okinawa. It's designed to show "that what we (Okinawans) are forced to endure each day". Now don't be confused with my use of the word "Okinawans". I am not speaking of the average Okinawan here in this post. Do we honestly believe the majority of Okinawans think the majority of Americans are uncontrollable heathens hell bent on pillaging the island and its people while going on weekend long benders? It's merely one party exploiting a situation for political gain and it happens all the time throughout America too. It's just part of the game and we'll wait it out until it wears off. We'll do it all over again sometime down the road when another incident can be used. Now with that said, I am not condoning or justifying the actions of anyone and feel any violations should be dealt with in accordance with both US military and Okinawan laws. In closing, remember these are merely the assumptions and opinions of one person and please please don't fall for the hype.

Well I did this study you are speaking of....I have come up with the answer..."No Marines... NO PROBLEM" *smiles* :thumbup:
Here's to you who find the need to find sexual pleasure in young girls...

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q105/Montsegur87/Humor/Pedobear_18.jpg

[LuvOki]

[QUOTE=blazingdrgnx;65809]Well I did this study you are speaking of....I have come up with the answer..."No Marines... NO PROBLEM" *smiles* :thumbup:

Thanks I was hoping we could get someone to take care of that tonight!

[Steganos]

what ? :D
Everything you say is correct, and yes it is a small group of Okinawans that are being manipulated (or should I say paid) by political groups, making the majority of the noise , And yes I may happen again and again in the future. But the fact of the matter is that it did happened and it happened know! And because of it I am here sitting in front of a computer having this chats when I could have been enjoying a nice katsudon dinner with a hughe bowl of soba. But no! because some horny 38 year old wanted to get some 14 year old crack, some dumb ass got drunk and broke into someone's house, and another idiot got caught DUI, there is no soba, no katsudon, and no sushi. So I'll conclude by saying that maybe the lockdown was not the best solution, but it was the solution that the General thought most efective at the time, specially after he warned these assholes not to do these things. If I was a commander with his responsiblities and had to go through the embarrassment of having to go and kiss some politician's ass, specially a foreign politician's ass because of what some stupid subbordinate did. Not only I would have done the lockdown, but those responsible retards, would be by now in Iraq looking for IED's wearing nothin but shorts and flip flops, and their tool for finding IED's would be a hammer to bang on everything they find suspicious.

[Redsox'sNation]

Ok, fine. But as a retired Marine and Staff NCO, I don't have a problem with saying what I said. Now as a retired Marine, and SOFA employee, my liberty is secured.

So you tell me Marine, what am I supposed to feel here? Maybe you didn't **** up, but someone did, and as the heartbeat of the Corps, that SNCO let some shit bird slip through the cracks.

And the liberty card policy also ran by SNCO's has failed too.

So are you in the Army of One, or are you your brother's keeper? Not you personally, but you get my point.

I am not sure if you read all of what I wrote. SNCO's do not have the right to put people on restriction and as I have stated, we as I am sure you might remember, can only watch them so much. To believe a SNCO can baby sit a Marine 24/7 is delusional. So, as I have stated before making a blanket statement that SNCO's are not doing their job is a copout. I understand you are a Marine, SNCO and did your time but it does not give you the right to make a statement like you did when most of the SNCO's are doing above what they are required to do...

[Steganos]

Sir, I as a fellow SNCO, find it very appalling that you would state SNCO's are not doing their jobs. One is only able to control a situation so much. Anyone who thinks he or she can control what their Marines will do 24/7 is a liar not only to themselves but to their senior leaders as well. I hear leaders making statements much like the one you made and realize most of those making that statement have lost touch with reality! I find it very upsetting to see a statement like yours due to the nature behind it. Stating SNCO's are not doing their job leads me to believe you think we are a possible catalyst for the actions which have taken place of over the last 2 weeks and that is unacceptable. We can only educate, direct and honestly pray that our Marines will conduct themselves properly. I, everyday, with my fellow SNCO's preach everyday. I find myself to be a highly educated Marine who has been doing this for a long time. I have seen my fair share of everything the Marine Corps has to offer and I lend my wisdom to my Marines. But, I do not sleep with them here in the rear. I try to eat with them whenever I can, during working hours, because my family deserves my time when I am not required to be at work, they have earned that. I randomly call them to see what they are doing as to give me a somewhat of a feel good but even I feel that is not enough sometimes. So making the statement which you have made offends me as I am sure it would offend many of the SNCO's I know.
So you do have to agree that because some SNCO's did not do enough (like trying to stay away and try to get into the pants of a 14 year old), your family that you hold so dear, have to suffer too. Wouldn't that offend you too?

[macker]

WOW.... Since this morning the blame game is still in effect...

How about, using the collective minds and experiences here (and some self proclaim to be smarter than Steve Hawkings!:) to find a solution or part of a solution or the beginning.. whatever...

NO Marines is NOT an option....

How could the liberty policy be fixed? without lockdowns and curfews?

I was thinking on my home tonight, how come all the bases in Europe combined don't seem to have the same issues (Maybe they do, but I haven't heard of them on international news)?? What does Europe do different than Japan?
I know many have been based in Germany and England, please provide input?

Maybe some SNCO will take the info here to a meeting or whatever, maybe one of the forums better writers could get all the ideas that seem viable and put pen to paer and send to General. I'm sure he and his upper ups would welcome a "new" and do-able idea on how to remedy what I will now coin as "Okinawa disease". (I need to get famous for something!!)

Seriously, all the blame is NOT gonna fix anything.

Anyway, I'm out for a beer!!! :D

[LuvOki]

Everything you say is correct,....


I concur...I was simply questioning any notion that a "lockdown" and sensitivity/leadership training will address the root causes. It's a necessary measure from a higher diplomatic or political stance, but do you think it address the root causes? Did they lock down Lejeune and use the alleged rape and murder of a fellow Marine as proof of a total breakdown across II MEF? If they did, does anyone actually buy that? I mean if Forces Japan are on lockdown for some break down of good order and discipline why not do a "lockdown" DoD wide? Or are we saying it's just an Okinawa "thing" and service members and liberty incidents are much less frequent off island? Look at the media reporting..."Under pressure from the Japanese Gov't...". That says it all...

[LuvOki]

WOW.... Since this morning the blame game is still in effect.. :D

How can you remedy something that is statistically going to happen regardless of measures put forth? I totally disagree with your "Okinawa Disease" concept. You have to consider the difference in environment when considering these incidents. Do you think drunken misconduct gets reported in England where Americans freely interact with minor cultural or language barriers and where getting "sloshed" or going on "the crawl" is a pastime? In regards to violent crimes I would have to do some research, but I would guess the numbers usually work out to be relatively proportionate across most bases.

just my .02

[spike7165]

Maybe someone senior should be asking the question:
Why is it always the marines?
Out of the 4 incidents in the global news in the last 2 weeks all four are marines the latest being the guy printng $20 bills on his home PC. I mean what the f**k!
What is different in the Marines with discipline and attitude that causes the problems you dont see from the Air Force or Army.
I'm sure they have their problems but whatever they do it doesnt seem to end up in the global media?
Discipline, attidude who knows but if they want to fix it, they should look at what differentiates the marines from others.

[spike7165]

Being British I can say with authority the reason nothing gets reported in the UK is a) the UK is very multicultural and Americans definitely dont stand out and b) the British drink at least as much if not more than the Americans and probably behave a lot worse than you guys!

[TheLastDon]

Simple answer, a lot more marines here.

[okisteve]

Ahh, Igirisu, the inscrutable land of contrasts... Shakespeare, Shelley, football hooligans, and skinheads.

[macker]

Do they not have SOFA in Europe?

So how come rapes/people robbing etc is not as common... Never mind making excuses as to why you THINK it doesn't happen, ask is the any DIFFERENCES that ensure it doesn't happen.. (if in fact it's not as common)

[macker]

I say stop bashing the marines exclusively...Thiese issues could have been done by any member of any other sevice

[spike7165]

okisteve - Yes I know hence why I like being in Okinawa...:-)
macker - Sofa applies everywhere as far as I know, each one being specific to the country the military is in.
I dont think the marines behave any differently anywhere they are its just that ANYTHING bad here appears and sticks out in a big way because Japan is a low crime country and Americans stick out.
I am sure that the same things do occur in the UK but although it may or may not get reported it just doesnt stick out.
Also a foreigner commiting a crime in the UK is not a big deal compared to Japan. Hell we have so many muslims in Jail with no trial thanks to security service information from us and you guys!

[spike7165]

macker - Yeah agreed but the point is they weren't.
And its not just one incident its 4, I listened to Zilner on the radio and he specifically said it was due to more incidents over Presidents day weekend, ie the sofa marine, the dui marine and now the counterfeting marine!

[macker]

So.. What news ideas can be proposed to help curb these minor incidents?

[Steganos]

Do they not have SOFA in Europe?

So how come rapes/people robbing etc is not as common... Never mind making excuses as to why you THINK it doesn't happen, ask is the any DIFFERENCES that ensure it doesn't happen.. (if in fact it's not as common)
When I was stationed in Germany, what actually kept GI's from acting stupid was simple, the German Police do not take shit from anyone, don't get me wrong, they are the friendliest people you can met in Germany, but they dont take shit from no one. They would only press charges on GI's for serious crimes, like robbery, assault and battery, rape, murder, and they will make shure that spend a long time in jail for these crimes. Minor stuff like public drunkenness, disorderly conduct, or just being plain stupid, for these they will just beat you senseless, they will not kill you, but they are done you are going to the hospital, when you get out of the hospital you get your well deserved Art. 15, if you was a NCO, you also get a plane ticket, a bad conduct discharge and a boot up your ass. Any alcohol related offense, you go to rehab, for e-4's a below, if you was a NCO, then you just became the Batallion Drug and Alcohol program NCO and you get to educate everybody else on the dangers and consequences of drug and alcohol abuse. Any DUI (if the Germans don't get you first, if they do you are done!), you just pack your stuff and say aufwiedershen to deutchland and your military career. Same for domestic violence involving alcohol.

[okisteve]

Ouch! No more jokes about bratwursts, please!!!

[jlevinson04]

i agree w/ you. they don't want us out in town, but they sure as heck showed up to work "on" base and get that american dollar.

[macker]

When I was stationed in Germany, what actually kept GI's from acting stupid was simple, the German Police do not take shit from anyone, don't get me wrong, they are the friendliest people you can met in Germany, but they dont take shit from no one. They would only press charges on GI's for serious crimes, like robbery, assault and battery, rape, murder, and they will make shure that spend a long time in jail for these crimes. Minor stuff like public drunkenness, disorderly conduct, or just being plain stupid, for these they will just beat you senseless, they will not kill you, but they are done you are going to the hospital, when you get out of the hospital you get your well deserved Art. 15, if you was a NCO, you also get a plane ticket, a bad conduct discharge and a boot up your ass. Any alcohol related offense, you go to rehab, for e-4's a below, if you was a NCO, then you just became the Batallion Drug and Alcohol program NCO and you get to educate everybody else on the dangers and consequences of drug and alcohol abuse. Any DUI (if the Germans don't get you first, if they do you are done!), you just pack your stuff and say aufwiedershen to deutchland and your military career. Same for domestic violence involving alcohol.

It appears that Okinawa /Japan may learn a few things from Germany!!

[TheLastDon]

i agree w/ you. they don't want us out in town, but they sure as heck showed up to work "on" base and get that american dollar.

Who's that exactly?

[Steganos]

i agree w/ you. they don't want us out in town, but they sure as heck showed up to work "on" base and get that american dollar.
I think they get paid in Japanese Yen by the Japanese contractors no?, or maybe I am wrong.

[LuvOki]

The below sheds a bit of light on the topic and maybe helps with all the generalizations being made here. Also, a quick google search on the news side will bring up more than enough recent arrests of airmen, soldiers, and seamen all over the globe to illustrate the fact this isn't a "Marine thing". Quick question for you Oki experts...I was informed that all housing monies (OHA) originate with the GoJ...can anyone confirm this?

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=59767&archive=true


http://www.stripes.com/08/feb08/crime210b.jpg



http://www.stripes.com/08/feb08/crime210a.jpg

[Isaak Brodsky]

... I assume Ian does that ... and if he does it at a contracted facility, his organization is bilking the US gov at the rate that Harvard charges.

Would you kindly elaborate on your use of "bilking" here? At the very least, it suggests that you've misconstrued the relationship between universities here that serve SOFA/non-SOFA students and the US Gov..

Just curious to know what fresh insight you can bring to the issue of what you perceive to be the agreement between Uncle Sam and these schools.

Cheers, ib

[Redsox'sNation]

Maybe someone senior should be asking the question:
Why is it always the marines?
Out of the 4 incidents in the global news in the last 2 weeks all four are marines the latest being the guy printng $20 bills on his home PC. I mean what the f**k!
What is different in the Marines with discipline and attitude that causes the problems you dont see from the Air Force or Army.
I'm sure they have their problems but whatever they do it doesnt seem to end up in the global media?
Discipline, attidude who knows but if they want to fix it, they should look at what differentiates the marines from others.

So if I understand you correctly just because the last 4 incidents were Marine related they are now "the only ones" who get in trouble? What is different in the Marines with discipline and attitude? Across the board Marines are the most disciplined of all the branches of services. But enough of that because it is useless trying to defend that point to someone who is not a Marine.

I see many questions about what to do and what went wrong. I leave this and this may not be the reason or catalyst but it might. The US is fighting a war with many Marines who are going to the fight from here or are coming from the fight from here and maybe, just maybe, some Marines are acting out in ways they only feel comfortable in. Or mayber, they are doing things because there are many issues they are dealing with and need some help...

[Tony Stacks]

[QUOTE=Tony Stacks;65787]
What a bunch of malarky!, you got out because you didn't had the discipline to be part of a solution. So you ran away from the problem, way to go!!

So it's my problem even though my time is up and I have to re-enlist to be part of the solution?

Is this your theory?

It7s not running away from the problem. Once your enlistment is up it's not your problem anymore.

[bad_karma]

Good point, Sox.

A lot of these kids have been in some hellish situations these last few years and may just have some of the inherent issues involved with that, as seen post-Vietnam.

Peace,

BK out

[spike7165]

Ok then, then the point is that the senior marines are letting them down.
Look I am not a marine, hell i'm not even military and I dont agree with a lot of things my government (british) and your government does in our name but i do respect anybody who fights for their country.
The point is that if these kids do have problems or they don't then someone is letting them down. They are either not getting the support they need or they are not getting the kick up the ass they need.
Point I was making is, someone should be figuring out what it is that needs to happen, not just having a politically correct knee jerk reaction to the media scrutiny that is currently on Okinawa and the US military.

[macker]

Spike... Like I said a few pages ago.. We need answers, Not blame and knee jerks....

[LuvOki]

Listen...a lot of this discussion is based on generalizations and/or conjecture. Saying "Why is rape more common in Okinawa in the DoD ..." or "Why are only Marines doing the bad bad things" etc. isn't entirely a good thing to post in a forum discussing this type of topic. Hit that google thing up to find some numbers/background for your questions, arguments, assertions, generalizations, stereotypes, etc. I guess it's just a matter of informing yourself prior to informing others. I wonder how many people in America and other places now think the Marines are on a rampage in Okinawa raping and pillaging the island-side Lief the Lucky-style (think viking) based on the media's shoddy and irresponsible reporting.

edit - not a good thing to post if you have no evidence to support it

[LuvOki]

Ok then, then the point is that the senior marines are letting them down.
Look I am not a marine, hell i'm not even military and I dont agree with a lot of things my government (british) and your government does in our name but i do respect anybody who fights for their country.
The point is that if these kids do have problems or they don't then someone is letting them down. They are either not getting the support they need or they are not getting the kick up the ass they need.
Point I was making is, someone should be figuring out what it is that needs to happen, not just having a politically correct knee jerk reaction to the media scrutiny that is currently on Okinawa and the US military.

well said...

[LuvOki]

repost...

This was put out on Feb 10th...

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=59767&archive=true

[wkarma]

They are command sponsored or you wouldn't get the COLA or housing entitlements for them...

Ic. I was not sure how that worked.
peace

[P_chan]

Ic. I was not sure how that worked.
peace

While they could bust your sofa status japanese citizen wife for breaking the lockdown. It's not like there will be MPs patrolling off base checking for them. Of course if you have a Y plate, and your wife is driving it, and she gets spotted she could get you into trouble.

Good thing my wife has hiragana plates:D

[LuvOki]

Do these look like average Okinawans to anyone? Serious question with no sarcasm inserted...they don't look like the average Okinawans I see daily, but of course my two eyes get a relatively minimal amount of exposure.

From cnn...
http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/02/19/japan.military.ap/art.japan.jpg

[Kye77]

I think this is just brilliant! Inconvenient it may be but this will show the local community just how much the American community contributes to the economy here. I bet they will figure they have bitten off more than they can chew & never reckoned that MANY establishments will suffer the loss of business the American community gave them.

To the many people who indicated that to think this way is arrogant. It is not my intention to be arrogant. I am neither American nor am I Okinawan so there is nothing for me to be arrogant about.

It is true that MANY establishments will suffer a lack of business because their main patrons are Americans. Why I say this? During the 2 years I've been here, I've ventured all over the place to find eats! I found plenty of establishments that are exactly that. Many Okinawans do not even think to go to these places & the reason being just that. Especially those with prejudice.
I was only thinking of eats when I posted that Qpost. Think about places like pet grooming shops, beauty parlors, bars, taxis & etc. Some of them start their businesses near the military bases in hopes of getting the American community's patronage. I reckon the rent is extra high too. Imagine the many places that thrive on takeouts. I heard that the military sometimes do takeouts that can hover around 20-30(just one squad) orders each mealtime.

Question: Is going to car dealers or repair shops allowed?

Question: What will happen IF there is a typhoon & the bases are closed? Do the people who live off-base just starve?

As a spouse, I truly feel that restricting us is uncalled for. Many spouses & dependents accompany their loved ones here because they support them. Not because they prefer to or they are happy to. Children have to get uprooted from their schools & friends(sometimes many times), spouses have to try to make friends or just be bored & be even more bored or worried when their loved ones go TDY.

This incident has become a media's circus & the higher ups probably had to keep the fires from becoming bigger. Somewhere in the back of my head, something is telling me that someone might still do some dumb rebellious thing even though there is a lockdown because this someone might just want to do what they want to do & think "heck it!". What else will the higher ups do? Move everyone on base & lock the gates?

[chiefk]

It's a good idea. They are trying to prevent what happened in 1970. A Navy man hit an Okinawan man with his car. Numerous anti American radicals happened to be in Okinawa from the mainland drinking in bars. A riot occured. American cars were stopped, the occupants were dragged out of their cars and their cars were set on fire. Gate two was damaged, the USO,which was just outside gate two was also damaged. It was an ugly situation.
I was one of those people dragged out of my car and beaten up on Moromi St. My car was burned up and I was rescued by the Okinawan Police. The point- I don't know why it is a good idea to restrict every GI's movement on the island because of a couple of idiots actions. Do you think that the Okinawans are going to burn cars again or what??

[Steganos]

To the many people who indicated that to think this way is arrogant. It is not my intention to be arrogant. I am neither American nor am I Okinawan so there is nothing for me to be arrogant about.

It is true that MANY establishments will suffer a lack of business because their main patrons are Americans. Why I say this? During the 2 years I've been here, I've ventured all over the place to find eats! I found plenty of establishments that are exactly that. Many Okinawans do not even think to go to these places & the reason being just that. Especially those with prejudice.
I was only thinking of eats when I posted that Qpost. Think about places like pet grooming shops, beauty parlors, bars, taxis & etc. Some of them start their businesses near the military bases in hopes of getting the American community's patronage. I reckon the rent is extra high too. Imagine the many places that thrive on takeouts. I heard that the military sometimes do takeouts that can hover around 20-30(just one squad) orders each mealtime.

Question: Is going to car dealers or repair shops allowed?

Question: What will happen IF there is a typhoon & the bases are closed? Do the people who live off-base just starve?

As a spouse, I truly feel that restricting us is uncalled for. Many spouses & dependents accompany their loved ones here because they support them. Not because they prefer to or they are happy to. Children have to get uprooted from their schools & friends(sometimes many times), spouses have to try to make friends or just be bored & be even more bored or worried when their loved ones go TDY.

This incident has become a media's circus & the higher ups probably had to keep the fires from becoming bigger. Somewhere in the back of my head, something is telling me that someone might still do some dumb rebellious thing even though there is a lockdown because this someone might just want to do what they want to do & think "heck it!". What else will the higher ups do? Move everyone on base & lock the gates?
It is possible, but another more devastating solution could be to move ALL Military personnel to the base, lock the gates and send all their family members back to where they came from and make Okinawa a hardship tour of duty where soldiers are not authorized to bring their family members. Pretty cool huh?

[Kye77]

I was one of those people dragged out of my car and beaten up on Moromi St. My car was burned up and I was rescued by the Okinawan Police. The point- I don't know why it is a good idea to restrict every GI's movement on the island because of a couple of idiots actions. Do you think that the Okinawans are going to burn cars again or what??

It must have been horrendous for you. It is scary to think that could happen. A middle school teacher mentioned that there was some stone throwing at American housing. Anyone know anything about that?

[Kye77]

It is possible, but another more devastating solution could be to move ALL Military personnel to the base, lock the gates and send all their family members back to where they came from and make Okinawa a hardship tour of duty where soldiers are not authorized to bring their family members. Pretty cool huh?

I agree, that is pretty devastating to even think about. However, I do not believe it will happen. Too much restructuring, planning & work involved. Is there any base that is like that anyhow?

[Mad Hatter]

My house is pretty much like that... :D

[spike7165]

Love the crazy frog picture, feel I must apologise though as a Brit invented the damn thing. We had to suffer it before the rest of the world....

[Mad Hatter]

I'll kill it! Don't worry, I'll kill It!!!

[6Mopar9]

Hello Japan update,
I have been following the news here in Amarillo,TX.

Okinawa was my home from 1974-1977. I lived off base and in Makiminato.

I love and miss Okinawa.....I hope things work out for everyone.

I agree with one of post;......Balanced News reports are needed.

[elgringoloco]

I spent about 6 years on Okinawa waaaay back in the early 60s. This is a little off subject, but maybe a little relevent to the Okinawan mind set. Every year, the local folk had big 'yankee, go home' rallys I think on 1 May and would set forth their resolutions. The first one was always "Yankee, go home. Reversion now". The second was always "Give all (Local) base workers a pay raise"

[DoctorP]

New sports poll in the casino:
JU Casino (http://www.japanupdate.com/forum/casino.php?)

Bet on how long you think the lockdown will last!