'Comfort Women' of the Japanese Army

[TheNoNamedOne]

Just recently the U.S. passed a resolution demanding that the Japanese government admit and accept responsibility for the tens of thousands of women from Korea, China, Taiwan, and the Philipines that were forced into prostitution by the Japanese Army/government in WW2.

For the most part, Japan has not officially accepted responsibility for war time brothels, stating that these accusations do not rest on any proof, other than testimoney of women who were prostitutes by choice.

Some documents showing government or army collusion in setting up these brothels are coming out, but then when they do they are either dismissed or their authenticity is questioned. Of course, if Japan admits in no ambiguous terms that it did indeed force women into prostitution it could open up a flood gate of payment reparations -- that probably they would prefer to not pay, and particularly since in recent years they have been trying to instill a sense of nationalism in the younger generation. Admitting such a dispicable thing by the government could set back those efforts.

It seems that the government of Japan is taking more of a "hold out until all parties die" strategy.

Do you believe that Japan has responsibility for the services these women were 'forced' to provide? Has the passage of time erased all need to address the issues? Or perhaps you side with the Japanese government, that there just is no proof so no need to act on something so suspect?

How do you feel about the Japanese Comfort Women issue?

[Monstersmama]

:(I do not agree at all with "forced prostitution"...(such as what we are seeing with trafficking of sex slaves from Thailand and China and other Asian countries today)...It is a disgusting practice.

Jenna

[Fairlady]

I agree with you monstersmama

[okibill]

There is no such term as "forced prostitution". Forced prostitution is rape.

[TheNoNamedOne]

There is no such term as "forced prostitution". Forced prostitution is rape.

Barring the semantics of what happened; then -- what do you think the government of Japan should do in order to atone for it -- the government sanctioning and policy of 'rape'?

[Muku]

There is no such term as "forced prostitution". Forced prostitution is rape.

However to the Japanese, and this is where this subject gets really dicey semantics play a very large part in this issue.

I had pledged to myself to stay out of this discussion as, well at least one person here knows I have a tendency to go ballistic on people that think that this issue never occured.

Believe me there are many Japanese that think this is a non-issue and should not be brought up, particularly from Americans. They feel that the US should apologize first for the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They will intertwine so many different issues including the rape of Nanking and the "official" military brothel's. You will get people that will tell you that the women were paid better than General's of the day amongst a huge list of other denials and "red herrings".

Too many if not most of the people posting here this issue is a "fact". However dont let that fool you, you can find arguments against this issue purely because there is no evidence to support the claims of these women.

Even though there is a substantial amount of circumstantial eveidence to support these women there is no physical evidence to support their claims.

I rest.....

[okibill]

I think the real question is...What will they do to atone for it? Which is most likely nothing. Any payment to the victims, or their families would be an admission of guilt, which will not happen soon.

[Muku]

I think the real question is...What will they do to atone for it? Which is most likely nothing. Any payment to the victims, or their families would be an admission of guilt, which will not happen soon.

Ah lest everyone here forget the government did set up the "private" Asian Women's Fund in an attempt to compensate the women making these claims against Japan.

However since the majority of the women realized that the fund was not an official Japanese government entity they refused any compensation. To them the issue is no longer just about compensation but recognition of what they suffered AND more importantly for future generations not to forget.

Meaning that they should be openly acknowledged for their suffering and not forgotten by future generations.

I rest again....

[TheNoNamedOne]

Ah lest everyone here forget the government did set up the "private" Asian Women's Fund in an attempt to compensate the women making these claims against Japan.

If I recall correctly, that fund has recently been discontinued, or requested that it be discontinued.

[socalheart]

Do you believe that Japan has responsibility for the services these women were 'forced' to provide? Has the passage of time erased all need to address the issues? Or perhaps you side with the Japanese government, that there just is no proof so no need to act on something so suspect? How do you feel about the Japanese Comfort Women issue?

I think that the Japanese government has a responsibility to admit the wrong done to these women by their military forces during that time. The Japanese government should also provide some form of restitution to these women and their families. The passage of time doesn't negate the fact that it happened. The Japanese government should also publicly apologise to the women. I also think investigations by a third party are required to verify authenticity of claims, like a photograph for example.

[Muku]

If I recall correctly, that fund has recently been discontinued, or requested that it be discontinued.

Yes it conveniently expired on 31 March of this year.

[Muku]

I also think investigations by a third party are required to verify authenticity of claims, like a photograph for example.

I understand your feelings but just a picture would not be enough to convince the authorites here in Japan that evidence existed about these women and their situation. There are many photographs available, please look at the following link;
Comfort Women.org (http://comfort-women.org/v2/)

It isnt evidence, neither is their testimony accepted either. Many will say that they have falsified their statements to gain compensation, but can not back it up when the women refused the compensation. They turn a different direction.

Believe me I have butted my head countless times listening to Japanese people 100% refute that this even existed or occured. All of the women to them were prostitutes. Forced or otherwise, once they were paid, not matter how they were obtained for service, they were prostitutes.

[ness4k]

Hearing about forced prostituion isn't that of the way with the world we live in now. I mean in the US military we have to receive training on the modern slave and sex trade stuff. It's pretty bad when u think about it but that's the world today. And the worst. As hard as anyone could try nothing will ever be done. It will always be there no matter how hard we try.

[Ammoyankee]

I seem to remember a few years back when a few of the women managed to get some compensation from the gov't that amounted to around 10 grand. But after that, nothing... Like the vets, many of the women are dying of old age now so I think the current gov't hopes it will not be an issue in a few more years when they are all gone.

[Muku]

I seem to remember a few years back when a few of the women managed to get some compensation from the gov't that amounted to around 10 grand. But after that, nothing... Like the vets, many of the women are dying of old age now so I think the current gov't hopes it will not be an issue in a few more years when they are all gone.
There was no official compensation from the government of Japan itself. The government helped to set up a private group called the Asian Women's Fund to first research and pay any claims of compensation that these women had. A small percentage took the money but an over whelming majority refused the cash because it didnt come directly from the government and there was no official recognition that their cases are legitimate. This is one of a number of cases that are extrememly complicated regarding issues surrounding WWII.

Oh the Asian Women's Fund mandate ran out this year on March 31. Their website no longer exists either.

Closing of the Asian Women's Fund (http://www.awf.or.jp/e3/dissolution.html)

[themadscientist]

I can't get a japanese person to admit they stuck a pet bottle in the burnable trash for crying out loud, the government will NEVER admit it. Until there is admission of guilt there can be no closure. For some reason to the japanese it is best to act like nothing happened, ever. that is why they moved to scrub the textbooks. They will wait until these women all die and then they will just stop talking about it altogether.

[Muku]

I can't get a japanese person to admit they stuck a pet bottle in the burnable trash for crying out loud, the government will NEVER admit it. Until there is admission of guilt there can be no closure. For some reason to the japanese it is best to act like nothing happened, ever. that is why they moved to scrub the textbooks. They will wait until these women all die and then they will just stop talking about it altogether.
Here's the point though, unlike the textbooks issue, which is pretty much an internal one only, this issue about the comfort women and others as well concern Japan's neighbors in the region too. So even if Japan stops talking about it countries like China, the Phillipines, and Korea will not let it go. Hell even the US got involved with it as well.

[themadscientist]

It doesn't matter. No amount of pressure will make them admit it, none.

[Muku]

It doesn't matter. No amount of pressure will make them admit it, none.

Actually if you do a little bit of research there have been a number of apologies given by the Japanese Government regarding this issue.

The bigger problem however is the back sliding that has occured, mostly with the last PM and his administration.

Are you aware of the issues that are involved in this topic?

Have you ever read the following?

Statement by Chief Cabinet Secretary Koichi Kato on the Issue of the so-called "Wartime Comfort Women" from the Korean Peninsula
July 6, 1992

Since December 1991, the Government has conducted an inquiry as to whether it had been involved in the issue of the so-called "wartime comfort women" from the Korean Peninsula into the ministries and agencies which might keep the related materials. I would like to announce the following findings as a result of this inquiry.

They are as described in the handouts, and I will summarize the main points here. That is, the inquiry has revealed that the Government had been involved in the establishment of comfort stations, the control of those who recruited comfort women, the construction and reinforcement of comfort facilities, the management and surveillance of comfort stations, the hygiene maintenance in comfort stations and among comfort women, and the issuance of identification as well as other documents to those who were related to comfort stations. Regarding the specific contents of the inquiry, we have outlined each material for those who are interested to read. The Cabinet Councilors' Office on External Affairs will explain in detail later, so that you can ask any questions you have on the contents.

The Government again would like to express its sincere apology and remorse to all those who have suffered indescribable hardship as so-called "wartime comfort women", irrespective of their nationality or place of birth. With profound remorse and determination that such a mistake must never be repeated, Japan will maintain its stance as a pacifist nation and will endeavor to build up new future-oriented relations with the Republic of Korea and with other countries and regions in Asia.

As I listen to many people, I feel truly grieved for this issue. By listening to the opinions of people from various directions, I would like to consider sincerely in what way we can express our feelings to those who suffered such hardship.


Taken fromStatement by Chief Cabinet Secretary Koichi Kato on the Issue of the so-called "Wartime Comfort Women" from the Korean Peninsula
(http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/postwar/state9207.html)

How about this please note the names of the Chief Cabinet Secretary.

Statement by the Chief Cabinet Secretary Yohei Kono
on the result of the study on the issue of "comfort women" (http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/women/fund/state9308.html)

The Government of Japan has been conducting a study on the issue of wartime "comfort women" since December 1991. I wish to announce the findings as a result of that study.

As a result of the study which indicates that comfort stations were operated in extensive areas for long periods, it is apparent that there existed a great number of comfort women. Comfort stations were operated in response to the request of the military authorities of the day. The then Japanese military was, directly or indirectly, involved in the establishment and management of the comfort stations and the transfer of comfort women. The recruitment of the comfort women was conducted mainly by private recruiters who acted in response to the request of the military. The Government study has revealed that in many cases they were recruited against their own will, through coaxing coercion, etc., and that, at times, administrative/military personnel directly took part in the recruitments. They lived in misery at comfort stations under a coercive atmosphere.

As to the origin of those comfort women who were transferred to the war areas, excluding those from Japan, those from the Korean Peninsula accounted for a large part. The Korean Peninsula was under Japanese rule in those days, and their recruitment, transfer, control, etc., were conducted generally against their will, through coaxing, coercion, etc.

Undeniably, this was an act, with the involvement of the military authorities of the day, that severely injured the honor and dignity of many women. The Government of Japan would like to take this opportunity once again to extend its sincere apologies and remorse to all those, irrespective of place of origin, who suffered immeasurable pain and incurable physical and psychological wounds as comfort women.

It is incumbent upon us, the Government of Japan, to continue to consider seriously, while listening to the views of learned circles, how best we can express this sentiment.

We shall face squarely the historical facts as described above instead of evading them, and take them to heart as lessons of history. We hereby reiterated our firm determination never to repeat the same mistake by forever engraving such issues in our memories through the study and teaching of history.

As actions have been brought to court in Japan and interests have been shown in this issue outside Japan, the Government of Japan shall continue to pay full attention to this matter, including private researched related thereto


Were you aware of these statements and apologies? The problems run much deeper.

[themadscientist]

I am suprized. Where is the government reparations?

[Muku]

I am suprized. Where is the government reparations?
See that is another problem separate but also important.
Japan's Records on War Reparations (http://www.jiyuu-shikan.org/e/reparations.html)

Indemnity & grants (in yen, at the time of payment)
Loans (in yen, at the time of payment)

Micronesia 1950
18 billion donated

Myanmar 1955, 1963
72 billion indemnity
50.4 billion grant
18 billion
10.8 billion

Philippines 1956
198 billion indemnity
90 billion

Indonesia 1958
80.3 billion indemnity
(+63.7 billion credit write-off)
144 billion

Laos 1958
1 billion grant


Cambodia 1959
1.5 billion grant


Vietnam 1960
14 billion indemnity
6 billion

Korea 1965
108 billion
72 billion

Malaysia1967
2.9 billion grant


Thailand
15 billion


Taiwan
58 billion


Singapore 1967
2.9 billion grant


Holland 1956
3.6 billion compensation


Switzerland 1955
1.1 billion compensation


Denmark 1955,1959
3 billion compensation
4.23 billion compensation


Sweden 1958
5 billion compensation

The issue of payments to the Comfort Women was covered "unofficially" with the Asian Women's Fund, recently closed on 31 March 07. The AWF was a quasi-government/private organization set up to make payments to women who had claims against the Japanese government. Some women were paid however the overwhelming majority refused the payments because their was no "official" government recognition of what they went through.

Like I wrote earlier there are some very serious and deep issues that are connected with this issue.

[themadscientist]

the governments using of an external channel of money is a face-saving measure. I am glad the majority of the women turned down the hush money.
Without it being official money it allows wiggle room for creative interpretation.

[Muku]

the governments using of an external channel of money is a face-saving measure. I am glad the majority of the women turned down the hush money.
Without it being official money it allows wiggle room for creative interpretation.
True, but technically all issues of reparations were taken care of previously. The question arises is where do the reparations stop?

Did you know that there are some Japanese that believe that the US should pay reparations to the victims of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

The bigger issue is one of recognition for the women, they want Japan to officially, now and forever. Not go back and forth saying one thing one time and something else another time.

[themadscientist]

Well I don't know if they have but I think it would be appropriate for the United States to express condolences to the victims of the bombs but reparations are not appropriate.
That terrible thing was a military action conducted during time of war. A very terrible one to be sure and the deaths were no means trivial. One good thing about the grizliness of war is it is unpleasant and hopefully discourages people from pursuing it lightly. With the advent of point and click warfare though I fear we may be desensitized by the video game nature of it in modern times.

[DougP]

I also think there is a slight difference in the way innocent civilians are killed during wars by bombs and gun fire as apposed to they way thousands, millions are displaced for sexual slavery and genocide. One although excessive can be chalked up to collateral damage while the other one is just a deliberate act of violence and oppression to another group of people.

A better comparison would be having the US publicly apologizing for the detention of thousands of Japanese Americans during WWII.

[Muku]

A better comparison would be having the US publicly apologizing for the detention of thousands of Japanese Americans during WWII.

It did, and it also paid compensation to the families of the people that were in detention as well.

The US opened the door on compensation for issues regarding WWII when it did.

[themadscientist]

I disagree. That was perpetrated against American citizens not those of another country. No precedent for reparations to a foreign national.

[Muku]

I disagree. That was perpetrated against American citizens not those of another country. No precedent for reparations to a foreign national.

What do you disagree to? The fact that the US paid reparations?

[themadscientist]

It did, and it also paid compensation to the families of the people that were in detention as well.

The US opened the door on compensation for issues regarding WWII when it did.
that by compensating citizens for detention America opened itself up for reparations by foreign citizens

[Muku]

that by compensating citizens for detention America opened itself up for reparations by foreign citizens

This might be a bit hard to follow but by paying reparations to the detainees in the camps, even though they were Americans, the women involved in the comfort women issue used this as an one of the arguments that the Japanese government should also pay reparations for what happened to them.

Up until that time there were very few of any individuals paid reparations for the actions of a government in the aftermath of WWII. Most of the compensation or reparations until then were given to the governments involved.

THis isnt about the US paying reparations to foreigners but the Japanese government paying compensation to the Comfort Women.

[themadscientist]

too many threads within the thread :D my last post is only in regards to the suggestion that America pay reparations to the atomic bomb victims. I beleive Japan must pay reparations to the comfort women and in an official fashion.

[Muku]

too many threads within the thread :D my last post is only in regards to the suggestion that America pay reparations to the atomic bomb victims. I beleive Japan must pay reparations to the comfort women and in an official fashion.

Actually all of these issues are intertwined together, one leads to the other and back again.

Why should Japan pay reparations to the comfort women, if you dont believe that the US should pay for the victims of the atomic bombs?

If the US shouldnt pay to foreign nationals, why then should the Japanese pay the comfort women who were foreign nationals as well?

Do you see where this goes?

[DougP]

Actually all of these issues are intertwined together, one leads to the other and back again.

Why should Japan pay reparations to the comfort women, if you dont believe that the US should pay for the victims of the atomic bombs?

If the US shouldnt pay to foreign nationals, why then should the Japanese pay the comfort women who were foreign nationals as well?

Do you see where this goes?

read my other post. If that was to be the case then we should go back and pay reparations to every country we have ever bombed. Might as well pay reparations to all the families of anyone who was shot and killed during the past wars too. I think the Tokyo fire bombing victims, survivors and their families would be just as deserving of such reparations as well. My previous post explains the differences that I see between the bombings and the sexual slavery/ genocide that was committed. Those were not preceded by warnings nor were they provoked by sneak attacks and an unwillingness to surrender.

I often feel its not the finger that pulls the trigger that should get the blame as much as it is the leader that got everyone there in the first place. Who ever leads their country into a fire fight/ war bears the burden of all bad things to come afterwards. That's why I also put misery of Iraq on the jihadist's shoulders as much as the politicians who voted to go there in the first place.

Whether a country feels pressured into getting involved or declaring a war the leaders of said nations should be prepared to except the responsibility for what happens as a result. Otherwise it gets grandfathered down to the successors much like what we're seeing today. I do think there is a line in where reparations are to be concluded. I also think there is a line on what one needs to apologize for and who should apologize for it.

[Muku]

read my other post. If that was to be the case then we should go back and pay reparations to every country we have ever bombed. Might as well pay reparations to all the families of anyone who was shot and killed during the past wars too. I think the Tokyo fire bombing victims, survivors and their families would be just as deserving of such reparations as well. ..................

I often feel its not the finger that pulls the trigger that should get the blame as much as it is the leader that got everyone there in the first place. Who ever leads their country into a fire fight/ war bears the burden of all bad things to come afterwards. That's why I also put misery of Iraq on the jihadist's shoulders as much as the politicians who voted to go there in the first place.


Whether a country feels pressured into getting involved or declaring a war the leaders of said nations should be prepared to except the responsibility for what happens as a result. Otherwise it gets grandfathered down to the successors much like what we're seeing today. I do think there is a line in where reparations are to be concluded. I also think there is a line on what one needs to apologize for and who should apologize for it.
Doug I read your other post, I know where you are coming from and I think you can see where it leads to as well. There is no end in sight to who pays what, where to whom. Everyone ends up deserving compensation for something.

Now since the Japanese government has already paid war reparations why is it necessary to pay compensation to the comfort women now?

My previous post explains the differences that I see between the bombings and the sexual slavery/ genocide that was committed. Those were not preceded by warnings nor were they provoked by sneak attacks and an unwillingness to surrender.

Sure I understand and agree with you, yet mixed in here as well confusing the issue to a truly great degree are the women that actually were professional prostitutes as well. Do they deserve compensation for doing what they did?

We also are looking at the problem with 20/20 hindsight. Even back in those days people were selling their children and it happens that many of the women were sold into servitude and the families well compensated for too.

I personally think the Japanese government today needs to make it official and recognize the part it played in the Comfort Women issue.

I feel that the current Japanese Administration "owes" these women and the rest of the world, at the minimum an honest acknowledgement that this issue happened and it isnt just a figment of everyones but the Japanese peoples imagination. Also the current Administration and all that follow afterwards need to include this and other issues from WWII in the ES/JHS/HS history lessons as a sad but important part of Japan. Particularly in its relationships with other countries in Asia. The government has to quit trying to rewrite history.

The following is what I think the current government here should do;

First have the Prime Minister go to the United Nations and make a speech in front of the General Assembly denouncing the Japanese Imperial Army for it's actions during WWII, to include all war crimes, including the coercion, kidnapping, and rape of the women from "Comfort Women" issue, among a list of other things as well. Making sure there is the maximum amount of exposure on TV and other media throughout the world.

Denounce all that oppose laws protecting women and children, particularly nowadays with the problems of human trafficing and call on all nations to work together to eradicate the reasons for this crime in the first place...poverty.

Included in that speech should be an unambigiuous apology to all women that were victims of being "Comfort Women".

Make a statement that all Japanese from this generation onwards will be educated about the horrors of war and that the Japanese Imperial Army and Government at the time were guilty of atrocities, including the Rape of Nanking, the Comfort Women Issue, and the human experimentation done within Unit 731. Express the deepest possible apology that a Japanese PM could make. Ask for forgiveness from the world community for not admitting and facing up to this horrific part of Japanese history. Ensure that by law noone from now on could ever attempt to retract or rephrase this statement in any way, shape, or form.

Next after the speech make an official tour of Asia and all countries, including Denmark, that had women that were Comfort Women. Offer apologies to the governments and people involved and meet with some of the surviving Comfort Women and listen to what they have to say. Go to the religious shrines of those countries and pay respects to the dead, including the Comfort Women dead as well, include them as official victims of WWII.

Help the healing process to finally begin for all of Asia. Be a leader and show others how to truly make ammends, no matter how far back the animosities run.

Part One......

[Muku]

This is what I think they should also do.......

Set up an official Government Agency fully funded by the Japanese government, no private funding whatsoever, to investigate and compensate women that were Comfort Women. Ensuring that the the guidelines or criteria are realistic. The amount to be given to those individual's can be decided upon by using guidelines established by other countries and their compensation policies.

However since there are few remaining Comfort Women, as you know most have or soon will die, use this Government Agency as a focal point in education and research regarding issues related to women and children. Human trafficing, poverty, violence issues, etc etc etc. Use the funding set aside for compensation to also set up centers in the countries where these atrocities occured. Help those countries educate their women and children about issues related to them. Become a true leader and ambassador for the world in these issues. Use the history as a starting point to educate people that this is what Japan did wrong, but now this is how we are working to save the future.

Make it for all women including Japanese.

Use this center also as the focal point of having ES/JHS/HS history textbooks reviewed prior to publishing, ensuring that these issues are prominently displayed and covered. Ensure that the future generations of Japanese people understand that this was a part of their history. Not "today" but the history of Japan, and ensure that they clearly state the issues and the positive corrective actions the Japanese people of today have done in creating a world where women and children are protected and honored as equals.

Make sure that the children should understand that they have no need to feel shame today for the actions of their ancestors, only to remember that to not study this would mean that it is possible to repeat it.

If by some chance all of this came to pass, from part one and part two of my posts here I think that all countries would let this subject die out.

[DougP]

Honestly I don't think they need to pay anymore. Just think they need to stop trying to sweep it under the rug.

PM needs to come out and say. "Yeah ok we were monsters, we killed hundreds of thousands of Chinese, Philippino, Malay, Indo and many other eastern asians. We also forced thousands to be sex slaves and give our troops a good "rub and tugs" so they could continue to fight for the Emperor with a smile on their face." and then close with "That was 60 some years ago. Can you get off our asses finally? Geeze I mean come on we were an imperial Japan back then with a fierce army. Now we are a country of Hello Kitty, J-Pop and know how to do some fierce drifts. Things have changed."

That should do it :D

[DAPRINCE69]

thanks for the info....useful news now. didnt suprise me at all:thumbdown: