Bi-lingual/Bi-racial?

[thistle]

I could not decide where to put this, I am sure the moderator will move it if necessary.

Just interested to hear experiences of other parents living here in Japan, on how to help
your child become bi-lingual. For me, my children are not really bi-lingual, their first language
is Japanese, as they have always went to Japanese schools, (International school was never
an option for us, financially), and as I , the mother was the only one talking to them in english, they understand it, but they never liked to use it. From a pretty young age, kids soon grasp how good you are in a particular language, and mine soon worked out that my japanese was good enough for them not to have to talk in english.
It is hard to force a language on children, they have to want to learn it. Over the years with numerous trips back to the U.K., my older one(now 14) can speak it to a certain degree because he has the chance to play with his cousins over there, but the younger one does not do as well. I think it often depends on the child as well, an outgoing, social child will always do better as he/she would be more inclined to play well with other kids of any nationality easily whatever the language they are using.

Can't afford the trip back this year, so am presently looking into alternatives for younger son,
i.e. english camps.

[dk]

I've heard it's a good idea to speak one language at home that is the opposite language they learn/use at school. My daughter isn't nearly at that point in her life yet (only 9 months old), but this is the plan we're most likely going to use. So, if she goes to a Japanese school, we'll be speaking English the majority of the time at home.

I'm sure that's going to be a lot harder to get my wife to stick with than myself.

I'm the new father though. I'm interested in reading others' views on this.

[DoctorP]

My kids do pretty well. BUT...I buy most of their games in English, they watch 80% of their TV in English thanks to SkyPerfect (but occasionally they change it back to Japanese), and they do homework in both languages.

It's difficult, but a necessary evil. I've seen too many people with kids who should be bilingual, but tend to drop one language or the other. We also ensure that they kids have friends both on and off the base. If your kids are too heavily influenced by only one culture, they tend to lean to that side. Three of my kids are bilingual, the fourth is struggling, but that is a seperate story.

[stone_crazy]

My daughter is multiracial with at least four different ethnicities, so I want to get her started on her third language pretty soon. She does well with both English and Japanese right now. My wife's family speaks to her in Japanese while my wife and I speak to her in English. My daughter's vocabulary is limited in both English and Japanese right now, but at least she's on her way to becoming truly bilingual. I think it's a big help if both parents are bilingual so you can translate on the fly. If my daughter starts speaking Japanese to me, I'll follow it up with "Eigo de nantte iu no?"

[Eyeball]

All three of our kids are fluent in both English and Japanese. What we did was my wife only spoke Japanese to them and only acknowledged them when the spoke Japanese to her. I did the same with English. I don't think that any of them were ever confused by this. We set the ground rules early and stuck to them. Now no matter what or where the kids will only speak to me in English.

The youngest two went to school off base at the local public school for five years and now on base. This hasn't seemed to be much of a problem either. They are a bit behind on the reading and writing skills but I'm sure with practice they'll get better.

[Tempestuous]

Children are born with all the tonal frequencies needed for any and all languages at birth.
As they grow and are exposed to the language used in their area their brain starts "ditching" the unused frequencies. That is why they recommend you play foreign language tapes to your infants & young children. To expose them to the tonal frequencies of the languages to keep the frequencies active & available for use. A child who has been exposed to the tonal frequencies has an easier time picking up, learning and utilizing foreign languages than a person who has not.
Interesting thought:
Studies have shown that if a child learns a language before hitting puberty, they will be able to speak the language without their native/primary tongues accent.

[thistle]

I think it's a big help if both parents are bilingual so you can translate on the fly. If my daughter starts speaking Japanese to me, I'll follow it up with "Eigo de nantte iu no?"


I have to disagree with you on that point, but it is only my opinion. If the child knows that you are bi-lingual then she is less likely to stick to the english only rule, maybe when she is very young, but the older they get, the smarter they get. It has been my experience anyway, and from watching young kids (esp. 5-6 age range), who no longer keep up the english, just answer in japanese, and that is with parents who are not fluent in english and Japanese, but they do speak both languages.

[socalheart]

Children are born with all the tonal frequencies needed for any and all languages at birth.
As they grow and are exposed to the language used in their area their brain starts "ditching" the unused frequencies. That is why they recommend you play foreign language tapes to your infants & young children. To expose them to the tonal frequencies of the languages to keep the frequencies active & available for use. A child who has been exposed to the tonal frequencies has an easier time picking up, learning and utilizing foreign languages than a person who has not.
Interesting thought:
Studies have shown that if a child learns a language before hitting puberty, they will be able to speak the language without their native/primary tongues accent.

Interesting. When I was in 1st grade (at OCS before the I), they told my mom to stop speaking Vietnamese to me, because I supposedly wasn't learning English. Not knowing any better, she began speaking only English to me. A year later, the school started to teach me Japanese. :mad: So, I only understand enough Vietnamese (my mother language) to know when mom is really ticked off about something. :o heh. I'm hoping to enroll our child into a Japanese pre-school before going back stateside. Hopefully, the child will be ale to continue speaking Japanese when we move back to Texas. heh. Yeah, that makes me laugh. :D

[Boost]

Hopefully, the child will be ale to continue speaking Japanese when we move back to Texas. heh. Yeah, that makes me laugh. :D

LoL - Now that could be interesting. Speaking Japanese with a Texas accent...you might never be able to understand what they are saying! :D

[thistle]

Now that the number of member's has shot up, I'd still be interested in any other people's experiences here. Whether your child is bi-lingual or not, if they have 2 parent's who speak both languages or one parent who speaks only one of the languages.
If you speak only japanese at home, how you keep your child's english up, because it is a constant struggle for me, to keep saying 'say it in english' and 'how do you say that in english?'.
Of course, exposure, just how much is the child exposed to english when he/she is not with the english speaking parent, how often does the child go back to the english speaking country, for how long?

[socalheart]

A woman came into my store today with her two children, ages five and three-ish. The boy had a Russian name, and the girl had what could've been a Japanese name. I asked the girl what languages they spoke. She said, "Russian, Hungarian, English and Japanese." Their mom smiled and nodded in agreement. Wow. :eek:

Does it tax a kid's brain to learn so many languages at such a young age? :confused:

[Muku]

Eventually I will post a reply here, right now however I need to put my thoughts together to attempt to give an accurate picture of where my family and I were and where we are at now in regards to this topic.

[okibill]

My son spent his first 6 years in the states, and the last 4 here and can't speak Japanese or English properly!! :eek:

[DoctorP]

I tend not to believe anyone who says that their kids are fluent in Japanese and English. FWIW, the kids that I have met were either leaning towards one language or the other, but were definitely not fluent in both. When I am asked about my kids, I do not say that they are fluent, but they are versed in both languages.

They are able to communicate in both languages well enough, moreso in Japanese than in English though. I notice this quite often when I speak to them in English. I have, in the past year, increased their exposure to English and I have seen a big increase in their abilities.

I have several friends whose kids are exposed to both, and no matter what, they all seem to lean more towards one language than the other. When they do that, the second language tends to be more slang than anything else. I doubt (but I do not know for sure) that most of them could write well in both languages whatever their parents would seem to say. But then, I guess most of us on here are just worried whether they can speak or not? (speaking doesn't = fluent!)

[DougP]

I myself can't wait. My wife and I are newlyweds and we both want children.
With her being Japanese and myself American I guess that qualifies us as a bi-racial couple. I've been studying hard more recently in the hopes that I can communicate with our children in both languages. Also since our children will grow up over here I want to be able to be actively involved throughout their schooling and able to communicate with their teachers.

[Muku]

With her being Japanese and myself American I guess that qualifies us as a bi-racial couple
Just because you are an American doesnt necessarily mean that you are bi-racial btw.

What are your roots? That will determine what "race" you are. You probably know this but a nationality does not equal race.

[DougP]

nationality aside I'm not asian and she is so...... :)

[Tempestuous]

A woman came into my store today with her two children, ages five and three-ish. The boy had a Russian name, and the girl had what could've been a Japanese name. I asked the girl what languages they spoke. She said, "Russian, Hungarian, English and Japanese." Their mom smiled and nodded in agreement. Wow. :eek:

Does it tax a kid's brain to learn so many languages at such a young age? :confused:

I don't think so. The more they are exposed to it the easier it is.
I tend to agree with DrP that they have one language they excel at but can speak & understand others.

Children don't see the "big deal" of it that adults do. They do it cause their little brains are sponges soaking everything up, they don't have to think & study like adults do to learn a language.

May be part of our problem, we just over analyze everything, making it harder for ourselves than it has to be??? Would we start picking it up if we just exposed ourselves to it? (Dunno, just wonderin)

[Tempestuous]

Just because you are an American doesnt necessarily mean that you are bi-racial btw.

What are your roots? That will determine what "race" you are. You probably know this but a nationality does not equal race.

Biracial definition is combining members of two separate races.

So he is not Asian and she is Asian, they are a biracial couple, their children will be considered biracial children, since their parents are two different races.

He does not want or feel it is necessary to disclose his racial identity but has sufficed to say he is NOT Japanese/Asian and they are a biracial couple, leave him alone!

I am sure he knows as does everyone else that Nationality does not equate to race.
Otherwise how would we have interracial/biracial marriages in America that we do if Nationality was what you went by. They would both be American so it wouldn't count as biracial.:rolleyes:

I actually hate that it matters. I know someone who is of Mexican decent, she doesn't speak Spanish, doesn't understand Spanish, has nothing to do with the practice's of her nationality, doesn't even appear to be Mexican.
Yet her Mother-in-law constantly tells people
"My son is in an interracial marriage, she is Mexican." Like it gives some sort of 'status' to them .
The MIL will even introduce her to people and state she is Mexican. It is freaking annoying. Who gives a hell???? Why does your race, visible or not need to be broadcast???

[Muku]

So he is not Japanese and she is Japanese, they are a biracial couple, their children will be considered biracial children, since their parents are two different races.

He does not want or feel it is necessary to disclose his racial identity but has sufficed to say he is NOT Japanese and they are a biracial couple, leave him alone!

Excuse me read his post a little closer. He clarified it very well end of discussion. I'm sorry if you are having a bad day, but that is not my fault, pull the fangs back in ok!

With her being Japanese and myself American I guess that qualifies us as a bi-racial couple

American is not a race. No need to lecture here professor. I dont give a hoot if he chooses to disclose his race, the manner in which wrote his post gave the impression that he was assuming American was a race.

Did you read my reply? I dont care if he answered what his roots were and he managed just fine with out needing you here to butt in and throw your uneccessary 2 cents in.

I am sure he knows as does everyone else that Nationality does not equate to race.
Are you so sure, can you read his mind as well? You are what you write.

I actually hate that it matters
You know I agree, but like it or not it is a fact of life. I deal with it daily, and a person can get over it.

Is class dismissed now professor?:barf:

[Tempestuous]

With her being Japanese and myself American I guess that qualifies us as a bi-racial couple.........

Just because you are an American doesnt necessarily mean that you are bi-racial btw.

I'm not having a bad day.
I just thought it was funny (goofy) of you to think he doesn't know if he's in an interracial relationship. Or assume that because he used Japanese/American terminology that in all honesty they likely weren't really interracial????

It just came off on this end that you were questioning the legitimacy of his statement.

Sorry if that was not how it was meant.
Obviously you took my post outside of how I meant it as well.
I was not meaning to come off as lecturing.

[Muku]

I'm not having a bad day.
I just thought it was funny (goofy) of you to think he doesn't know if he's in an interracial relationship. Or assume that because he used Japanese/American terminology that in all honesty they likely weren't really interracial????

It just came off on this end that you were questioning the legitimacy of his statement.

Sorry if that was not how it was meant.
Obviously you took my post outside of how I meant it as well.
I was not meaning to come off as lecturing.
I apologize for my sarcastic reply as well.

I have run across Americans that marry Japanese women, granted they were younger guys, but anyway, they thought that America was a race. Granted they were not the shiniest apples on the tree.

Just wanted to have him clarify what he wrote and he did.

Sorry about the misunderstanding.:)

[Tempestuous]

I apologize for my sarcastic reply as well.

I have run across Americans that marry Japanese women, granted they were younger guys, but anyway, they thought that America was a race. Granted they were not the shiniest apples on the tree.

Just wanted to have him clarify what he wrote and he did.

Sorry about the misunderstanding.:)

Understood, Sometimes with the "body language" part of communication missing we miss meanings and intentions.

We all have our run in with those type of dull apples that you wonder how on earth they survive each day cause it really doesn't appear that there are enough brain cells in their head to motor a fly, let alone a person....especially one firing a weapon :scared:

[Tempestuous]

BTW- I apologize too for it coming off as being hard on you.

It was more the "shushing" elbow or playful slap on the knee to from one of the girls in the group when you & friends are out and about and you start harrasin someone.

[jazzybelle]

my quick 2 cents:
My fiancee is japanese/white. She grew up in Okinawa/Mainland. While she was younger she was in japanese schools and was fluent in japanese. However her father pushed her into DDoDS and since then her profieceny dropped. Now she is limited in what she can say and honestly I think it has hurt her when she speaks to family members and on a daily basis.
Don't restrict your children on any languages. let them speak it all! :)

[Oxmix]

My kids speak English. My wifes native tongue is Korean. She never taught our kids Korean. They took Spanish in high school and the oldest took Spanish in College. He does very well with the Spanish language. My wifes parents were bilingual. Her mother spoke Korean and Chinese. Her father spoke Korean, Chinese, Japanese and Russian.

Regards

Ox

[Muku]

I know its a reply to an old post....it's a good topic to me.:)

my quick 2 cents:
My fiancee is japanese/white. She grew up in Okinawa/Mainland. While she was younger she was in japanese schools and was fluent in japanese. However her father pushed her into DDoDS and since then her profieceny dropped. Now she is limited in what she can say and honestly I think it has hurt her when she speaks to family members and on a daily basis.
Don't restrict your children on any languages. let them speak it all! :)

You know it sounds like you are saying that because her father "pushed" her into going to Dodds she cant speak Japanese. Well then if she didnt go to Dodds what chances are there that she wouldnt be able to speak English?

Sure she might be able to speak English however odds are her grammar and vocabulary would have been very low if she didnt go to Dodd's and only a Japanese school.

It takes work to become truly proficient in two languages. Just because a person can speak a second language doesnt make them fluent in the language.

I'd say dont be too harsh on Dad, I'll bet he was only doing what he thought best for his daughter.

[DoctorP]

I know I'm reviving an old thread, but didn't really need a new one for this.

Here is an example of what happens to many bi-racial children in Japan, this is from a real classified ad:

I need a English tutor for Japanese educated American boys to teach them how to read,

All too often the parents do not enforce both languages, but insist that their kids are indeed bilingual. The thing I hate to hear is when people say their kids are fluent, but when you speak to them they struggle with one language, the other, or both!

If you choose to stay in Japan, please ensure that you help your kids with both languages...do not assume, that just because you speak one language and your wife speaks the other, that your kids will magically learn both.

[thistle]

I know I'm reviving an old thread, but didn't really need a new one for this.

Here is an example of what happens to many bi-racial children in Japan, this is from a real classified ad:



All too often the parents do not enforce both languages, but insist that their kids are indeed bilingual.

Perhaps it is just the way you have worded this, but you cannot enforce a language on any child. forcing or making them learning a language when they are not interested is very hard indeed.

If you choose to stay in Japan, please ensure that you help your kids with both languages...do not assume, that just because you speak one language and your wife speaks the other, that your kids will magically learn both.

'please ensure' again, the way you worded this puzzles me. Most couples i think do do their best to help their children to speak both languages. But sometimes when a kid is surrounded say by only japanese speakers and one english speaking parent who they are with say 3-4 hours a day it is very hard again to ensure that they are able to speak both languages proficiently.
I think living in Japan, japanese will always be the first language, unless of course your child is able to go to International school or american school.

[Tempestuous]

If you are concerned about the lack of exposure of one language- you can do books on tape/cd in that language.
Purchase movies in that language,
Record your own tapes of information that is high interest to them in that language.
There are ways to increase the exposure even if the parent that speaks that language has a limited amount of time with the children.

I have known bilingual families that enforce the rule that at home the opposite language than is spoken in the local community is the ONLY or primary language spoken. (that of course requires parents to be pretty fluent in the language as well)

[Muku]

'please ensure' again, the way you worded this puzzles me. Most couples i think do do their best to help their children to speak both languages. But sometimes when a kid is surrounded say by only japanese speakers and one english speaking parent who they are with say 3-4 hours a day it is very hard again to ensure that they are able to speak both languages proficiently.
I think living in Japan, japanese will always be the first language, unless of course your child is able to go to International school or american school.

Thistle I agree with you. I know a couple, the father is a Marine the Mom is Japanese. The kids can not communicate in English because their father is damn near TDY or, like now, on Recruiting duty and she is here. Dad doesnt speak Japanese either. Mom works, the kids are in a Japanese ES school and Grandma takes care of them after school.

It's kind of hard to ensure that the kids get fluent in that type of environment.

If you choose to stay in Japan, please ensure that you help your kids with both languages...do not assume, that just because you speak one language and your wife speaks the other, that your kids will magically learn both.
Doc each person or family is in a unique situation I think.

However isnt that ad an example of a person recognizing their own weakness and looking for help? Are they not taking responsibility and trying to "ensure" that their child can do just what you are pointing out?

I agree with the dont asume part though. Parents need to keep up with their kids in many aspects of their lives.

[Isaak Brodsky]

Much of my doctoral research is in developmental psychology and linguistics - specifically in language acquisition. Hope the following advice helps.

All of the best research, that is the best arguments, show that children from multilingual households experience a slight delay in developing each language.

Fortuituously, I guess, I was able to confirm the research I was doing by directly observing my own daughter developing language skills in English, Korean and Japanese. She'd attended a local daycare center and preschool, communicated with her Japanese friends only in Japanese, came home afterwards and communicated with her mom only in Korean and then with me only in English.

Like all kids with a similar kind of experience, she has seen delays in her full grasp of each grammar. As expected and as verified by the research, we saw her routinely mix one language with another - syntax as well as diction. That was about five years ago when she was really struggling. Nowadays, she has a fairly good grasp of two languages and has let the third slip away a bit.

All of the research, though, points to the benefits of full immersion. If you want your child to be fully bilingual or even multilingual, you must communicate only in one language and your spouse must communicate only in the other language. This way, the child gets the full complement of both languages. You must never speak to your child in Japanese if your spouse is the one responsible for your child's Japanese abilities and, of course, vice versa for him/her. If you are the English speaker/teacher and your child tries to engage you in convesation in Japanese, you must completely ignore the child. This part should be fairly easy.

Rest assured that the multilingual child will see some slight delays in fluency until about the age of twelve. Once this period passes, the child's language centers will have developed more fully and those physical areas of the brain that govern both languages will be more equipped to produce much more fluent and coherent speech and greater comprehension.

These days, my wife looks at our eight-year-old and still wonders sometimes just what in the bloody h*ll she's saying. I just shrug my shoulders and tell me daughter to go and read a book. It is sometimes frustrating because we witness ocassional garbles of grammar, but we're reminded that she's processing three languages.

If you are worried about any language developmental problems, please send me a PM so that we can talk about them.

Cheers, ib

[yamama]

I am divorced from my children's mother. I still live on the island and the kids stay with me on weekends. I speak japanese and english, and my children speak japanese primarily. My children understand english but prefer to reply in japanese to me out of habit. They go to a church group/bible school that is taught in english and have no problem. I have found out that my children learn in different ways, but as long as you have patience then everything will work itself out.
Forcing a child to speak your language only causes problems. When my daughter did not know the word in english she uses japanese; it helps me learn as well.

[Uniquemami]

Hi all :) This is my very first post so let's hope it's not my last lol. Ok I have 2 scenarios to this topic. First is my own - I was born and raised in Argentina by argentinian parents and moved to Australia at the tender age of 10 lol... at this point I had only spoken Spanish my entire life and my knowledge of English extended to Hello...lol... upon our arrival I remember watching sesame street and playschool (australian show) with my then 4 year old sister lol... within a month my parents enrolled me into grade 5 with very very little english. This was followed by many months of staring blankly at my teachers and other students lol. But to be honest with you I think this is the best thing my parents could have ever done for me as the shock of being placed in such a situation forced me to take the initiative to learn the language for myself. Within 6 months I was fluent in not only English but Spanish. The trend at home then became that my younger sister and I would speak to my parents in English but they would in turn respond in Spanish, and as we had my grandparents staying with us, spanish in the household was a must.
Second scenario - My son is 6 years old born in Australia (Australian father). I have tried my best to keep the spanish active in his every day life but I've found this harder than my parents did with myself and my sister. As I am now married to an American who is very willing to learn Spanish himself lol I've decided that we will have daily "teaching" sessions, and thus hopefully helping him to become fluent. I've also thought of having "fun fact" sessions about mom's and dad's (he's african-american) background so he can get a better understanding and gain some knowledge into both cultures.

EDIT
By the way I wanted to add I just moved to Okinawa 2 weeks ago and my next big aim in regards to my son being bi-lingual is to have him learn Japanese (not sure if this is offered on base) with a tutor once he starts school.

:) Hoping my first post won't lead you to wanting for it to be my last lol due to length or just plain boredom.... hehe

take care everyone have a great night

[okisteve]

Welcome and it sounds like you have had an interesting life.

Based on my experience with kids and stepkids in Japan and in the US, the best way to have your son become fluent in Japanese is to let him learn by playing with local kids, more or less how you learned English in school (don't look now, but you really learned from the other kids, not the teacher!), and how my stepkids learned English after coming to the States.

[Uniquemami]

Thanks :)

And you are 100% right, from memory (seriously bad one) it was wanting to know what the school kids were saying that made me that more determined to learn it. I know they offer spanish on base (well at least in Kadena) but is Japanese another option for them to study? Or would I just be better off hiring a private tutor?

[Oxmix]

It's my understanding that a child under 10 years of age can learn a new language without speaking it with an accent and learn it very quickly.

Regards

Ox

[Muku]

Hi all :) This is my very first post so let's hope it's not my last lol. Ok I have 2 scenarios to this topic. First is my own - I was born and raised in Argentina by argentinian parents and moved to Australia at the tender age of 10 lol... at this point I had only spoken Spanish my entire life and my knowledge of English extended to Hello...lol... upon our arrival I remember watching sesame street and playschool (australian show) with my then 4 year old sister lol... within a month my parents enrolled me into grade 5 with very very little english. This was followed by many months of staring blankly at my teachers and other students lol. But to be honest with you I think this is the best thing my parents could have ever done for me as the shock of being placed in such a situation forced me to take the initiative to learn the language for myself. Within 6 months I was fluent in not only English but Spanish. The trend at home then became that my younger sister and I would speak to my parents in English but they would in turn respond in Spanish, and as we had my grandparents staying with us, spanish in the household was a must.

What garuntees do you have that you child will follow along as you did here? There is a huge leap of faith in thinking that your child can or will follow along in your footsteps.

Plus there is the added cultural aspects to learning the language. I would highly doubt that a child at 10 years old will become fluent in Japanese in 6 months. Maybe able to carry on simple conversations but I can not see fluent. There is more to fluency than just being able to ask How to go to the bathroom....ok just a joke there:D

Oh and please dont forget this...English and Spanish are closely related, sentence structure is similiar right? You can compare them like comparing limes and lemons. But English and Japanese are like comparing watermelons to bananas.

[okisteve]

Not sure because there are some important new ideas around about how kids acquire language, but I doubt if kids ability to learn Japanese is affected by the fact that the structure etc. is so dissimilar to English. It is definitely a problem for adults though!

Anyway, "fluency" at age 4 or 6 is not hard to achieve because it's just "kid talk". Put a young kid together with others his age and they will be mirroring their speech in short order.

Mami - in case you missed my point, I would not go the route of hiring a tutor. You'd be better off finding a preschool or kindergarten off base for your child, or just a bunch of neighborhood kids to hang out with.

[Muku]

Not sure because there are some important new ideas around about how kids acquire language, but I doubt if kids ability to learn Japanese is affected by the fact that the structure etc. is so dissimilar to English. It is definitely a problem for adults though!

Anyway, "fluency" at age 4 or 6 is not hard to achieve because it's just "kid talk". Put a young kid together with others his age and they will be mirroring their speech in short order.

Mami - in case you missed my point, I would not go the route of hiring a tutor. You'd be better off finding a preschool or kindergarten off base for your child, or just a bunch of neighborhood kids to hang out with.

Steve I would just like to add I know a few kids that were dropped into a Japanese school with having zero knowledge of the language, they were sisters and they were from the Phillipines. Mom is Fillipino, step-Dad Japanese, anyway they still had a hard time communicating with anything other than simple phrases and words after roughly a year in the school.

They were also getting tutored outside of school as well. Their English was great, but they didnt learn much Japanese.

I guess that it depends a lot upon the child themselves.

[RenaissanceMan]

Well, KUMON study halls are the best kept secrets on this island. They have both English and Japanese class. Though older people are studying in a room full of kids, even they can learn fast. I learneda nd tested out on reading hirgana and some Kanji in 6 week only going twice a week for about 45min to an hour. Soon I will be started katakana.

If all else fails, you can always go to the Special Forces compound on Torii station. They all learn a new language in six months or less. (=

[Old Timer]

Now that the number of member's has shot up, I'd still be interested in any other people's experiences here. Whether your child is bi-lingual or not, if they have 2 parent's who speak both languages or one parent who speaks only one of the languages.
If you speak only japanese at home, how you keep your child's english up, because it is a constant struggle for me, to keep saying 'say it in english' and 'how do you say that in english?'.
Of course, exposure, just how much is the child exposed to english when he/she is not with the english speaking parent, how often does the child go back to the english speaking country, for how long?


I have two daughters, now adults in Japan. They grew up straddling the divide; both went to DOD schools, both bi-lingual. My wife taught Japanese language by everyday use. They both read and write both languages. The key element is school IMO. Formal education will dictate the stronger language. My oldest is a DOD teacher, the youngest a tattoo artist in Tokyo. :eek:

I know you worry, but let nature take its' course. :old:

[Muku]

I have two daughters, now adults in Japan. They grew up straddling the divide; both went to DOD schools, both bi-lingual. My wife taught Japanese language by everyday use. They both read and write both languages. The key element is school IMO. Formal education will dictate the stronger language. My oldest is a DOD teacher, the youngest a tattoo artist in Tokyo. :eek:

I know you worry, but let nature take its' course. :old:

If your wife taught them spoken Japanese through daily usage I wonder how they learned to read and write Japanese.

As you probably know learning to read and write Japanese takes years of studying.

[Uniquemami]

What garuntees do you have that you child will follow along as you did here? There is a huge leap of faith in thinking that your child can or will follow along in your footsteps.

Plus there is the added cultural aspects to learning the language. I would highly doubt that a child at 10 years old will become fluent in Japanese in 6 months. Maybe able to carry on simple conversations but I can not see fluent. There is more to fluency than just being able to ask How to go to the bathroom....ok just a joke there:D

Oh and please dont forget this...English and Spanish are closely related, sentence structure is similiar right? You can compare them like comparing limes and lemons. But English and Japanese are like comparing watermelons to bananas.

Well I don't recall stating that I was wanting for my son to become fluent in Japanese within 6 months, or that he will follow in my footsteps. Nor have I said that making the transition from English to Spanish and vise versa is easier than Japanese. But I do believe that having a second or third language is a major foot in the door and will try my best to provide this for him. In regards to fluency I was referring to Spanish as most of my family does not speak English so I would love for him to be able to have a conversation with them. Since we'll be stationed in Japan for the next few years it would be nice for him to have some Japanese knowledge as I would love for him to be able to converse with the children that live close to us. No guarantees stated anywhere in my post. Just hopes.

:) have a great day

[okifamily3]

I agree with DK. Speak the language you want them to learn at home. If they ask you something in the other language, tell them to say it in English. It helps my son a lot. He is 4 and he's only 1/4 Japanese but he went to a Japanese school since he was 2. He speaks fluent Japanese. His English is now perfect (well, for a 4 year old) because we made it a habit of speaking a lot of English to him in the house. My mother is Japanese, so she speaks a lot of Japanese. Either way, he is pretty balanced out. Be careful though, as they get older. When I was little, my main language was Japanese. Once I learned English, I started to forget my Japanese and eventually couldnt hardly understand it. I was in high school before I started to pick it back up again from self-teaching.

[RenaissanceMan]

Children are born with all the tonal frequencies needed for any and all languages at birth.
As they grow and are exposed to the language used in their area their brain starts "ditching" the unused frequencies. That is why they recommend you play foreign language tapes to your infants & young children. To expose them to the tonal frequencies of the languages to keep the frequencies active & available for use. A child who has been exposed to the tonal frequencies has an easier time picking up, learning and utilizing foreign languages than a person who has not.
Interesting thought:
Studies have shown that if a child learns a language before hitting puberty, they will be able to speak the language without their native/primary tongues accent.

True all true. That's why is very hard for adults to change languages, it take s a long time to relearn all the tonal frequencies that are ditched.
Another point is that you should start them early listening to the tonal sounds of any language you want them to be fluent in, in the future. Since the experts say that in early childhood development, we learn 50% of everything we know in our lifetimes from 0 - 5 years old, start early. As they reach the cognitive development stage from ages 7 - 12 years old, they will really begin to understand how to "Create sentences, or solve problems with their language" so to speak.

[dndkt]

My son is 4 and speaks English and Japanese very well. He went to a Japanese school from age 2 1/2 to now and is starting with on-base schooling next week. I was afraid that with his familiarity with nothing but Japanese-speaking schoolmates, that he would have problems, but it's not the case. His english is just as good as his japanese and vice versus.... All we have been doing is speaking both english and japanese non-stop. We don't favor one language more then the other. My husband can only speak English and can understand basic Japanese. When he is around, he speaks all of the english and I speak the Japanese (along with my mother). This may be of no help and sounds really simple, but you'd be surprised at the outcome. It does no good to force children to learn something. I spoke fluent Japanese as a young child, then lost it as I got older. Then my parents tried to force me to learn and it made it way harder. I eventually picked it back up around high school when I started learning on my own. Good luck!

[Old Timer]

If your wife taught them spoken Japanese through daily usage I wonder how they learned to read and write Japanese.

As you probably know learning to read and write Japanese takes years of studying.


YES!!! and cram schools against thier will. I thanked you for the great avatar. Nice tits. Somebody you know I hope?:thumbup1:

[Tanimaga]

I learneda nd tested out on reading hirgana and some Kanji in 6 week only going twice a week for about 45min to an hour. Soon I will be started katakana.

Is this the standard learning path? Seems to me one would learn Katakana first, Hiragana second, then proceed to the simple Kanji levels. At least, thats what my daughter has done in Japanese elementary.

[uriel]

A woman came into my store today with her two children, ages five and three-ish. The boy had a Russian name, and the girl had what could've been a Japanese name. I asked the girl what languages they spoke. She said, "Russian, Hungarian, English and Japanese." Their mom smiled and nodded in agreement. Wow. :eek:

Does it tax a kid's brain to learn so many languages at such a young age? :confused:

not according to numerous studies it doesn't. i would tend to agree, although I don't really, as none of us do. i've met kids who have no problems interacting and holding conversations in at least 2 languages. i would think it would be far, far harder for an adult to do that even if they were fluent due to an adults brain being more cemented in it's own certain way of processing information where a child's brain is going in every direction at once... but hey, that's just one man's opinion.

[Muku]

Is this the standard learning path? Seems to me one would learn Katakana first, Hiragana second, then proceed to the simple Kanji levels. At least, thats what my daughter has done in Japanese elementary.
Tani....Are you sure? :scratchchin:

In a Japanese elementary school hirgana is taught first then katana.

Partially because hiragana is more frequently used in writing Japanese sentences than katakana which is mostly used for words of foreign origin.

Edited to add here.....
Hiragana is the first of all the writing systems taught to Japanese children.

Many books for young children are, therefore, written in hiragana only.

[uriel]

I have two daughters, now adults in Japan. They grew up straddling the divide; both went to DOD schools, both bi-lingual. My wife taught Japanese language by everyday use. They both read and write both languages. The key element is school IMO. Formal education will dictate the stronger language. My oldest is a DOD teacher, the youngest a tattoo artist in Tokyo. :eek:

I know you worry, but let nature take its' course. :old:

daaayuuuuum. how old are you?:scratchchin: I mean, uh... seriously though, that is pretty cool how your kids turned out.

[cellophane]

Well what do you all think of non-Japanese military families who have their children in pre-schools out in town that speak only Japanese? I know of such a family and though it's interesting that their 3 year old is learning Japanese I think it's a shame that she struggles with English! Even though her parents speak English exclusivley at home this child can hardly speak any. I imagine being at pre-school for 9 to 10 hours a day verses her few waking hours at home is the main reason. When I have been around this family, mom loves to show off how her little girl speaks Japanese. Yeah it's cute but this child is learning a language that she will not use again once they PCS out of here. You can see that it hurts the child too because she gets frustrated when she is around other English speaking children and can't communicate as well.

[Tanimaga]

Tani....Are you sure? :scratchchin:

In a Japanese elementary school hirgana is taught first then katana.

Partially because hiragana is more frequently used in writing Japanese sentences than katakana which is mostly used for words of foreign origin.

I agree with you, but my daughter's workbook had all the Katakana levels completed, and she was starting on the Hiragana section. Maybe I'll ask my lady when she gets back from work. (She's a teacher)

Maybe my little one just finished off the Katakana in her down time.

[uriel]

Well what do you all think of non-Japanese military families who have their children in pre-schools out in town that speak only Japanese? I know of such a family and though it's interesting that their 3 year old is learning Japanese I think it's a shame that she struggles with English! Even though her parents speak English exclusivley at home this child can hardly speak any. I imagine being at pre-school for 9 to 10 hours a day verses her few waking hours at home is the main reason. When I have been around this family, mom loves to show off how her little girl speaks Japanese. Yeah it's cute but this child is learning a language that she will not use again once they PCS out of here. You can see that it hurts the child too because she gets frustrated when she is around other English speaking children and can't communicate as well.

she's 3. she will figure it out. children deserve more credit than some here give them. and no, it doesn't hurt them. why? well, what happens when they leave? they go back to speaking english and they pick it back up. yes it taxes their little minds. but guess what? in the long run, it actually will help them because they are learning. it's not just what they are learning, it's also the act of learning that helps them develop.

[Muku]

I agree with you, but my daughter's workbook had all the Katakana levels completed, and she was starting on the Hiragana section. Maybe I'll ask my lady when she gets back from work. (She's a teacher)

Maybe my little one just finished off the Katakana in her down time.

Could be...

From what I know, generally speaking here as each school is different of course but the public schools here generally follow the same curicullum, is that the hiragana is taught over the course of a little over one month starting sometime in April at the begining of the Japanese school year.

Since it is summer vacation now odds are that your daughter has already learned all the hiragana.

[Muku]

Well what do you all think of non-Japanese military families who have their children in pre-schools out in town that speak only Japanese? I know of such a family and though it's interesting that their 3 year old is learning Japanese I think it's a shame that she struggles with English! Even though her parents speak English exclusivley at home this child can hardly speak any. I imagine being at pre-school for 9 to 10 hours a day verses her few waking hours at home is the main reason. When I have been around this family, mom loves to show off how her little girl speaks Japanese. Yeah it's cute but this child is learning a language that she will not use again once they PCS out of here. You can see that it hurts the child too because she gets frustrated when she is around other English speaking children and can't communicate as well.


Think it's going to hurt her? I highly doubt it, in fact being exposed to a second language at a young age helps with brain development as well. A child of three will only speak like well a child of three, dont underestimate them. Unless they have a learning diability the child will benefit greatly.

Oh and how in the world can you know that she wont use the language after they leave here? Are you a bit jealous maybe that you or your children cant do the same as this child you are talking about here?

Kids that age dont communicate like adults, she will get over her, excuse me your perception of her frustration.

I've got three bi-lingual children, and they didnt communicate very well at 3 years old either. In fact I know of very few three year olds that can.

Now I cant shut them up.

[cellophane]

Yes Muku very few other 3 year olds communicate well. What I am learning here is what's more important than language is that the communicator has a positive attitude.

[Tanimaga]

My ex-wife being deaf, my daughter was very good at sign language by the age of three. Sign language is a flexible and relatively easy to use tool for a young mind..especially when the words aren't handy.

[glico]

My son's English has strong Japanese accent. :(

Does anyone of you have the same problem?

[dk]

My son's English has strong Japanese accent. :(

Does anyone of you have the same problem?
I sometimes tell people they racka disiprine.

[Muku]

My son's English has strong Japanese accent. :(

Does anyone of you have the same problem?
And the problem is? If your son's English is understandable to those that he is talking to I would be willing to guess that you may be worrying too much.

If you think about it there are plenty of English accents around the world, British, Australian, Malayasian, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, American. The point is being able to be understood and if you son is then why worry.

However, if his English is overall poor as well then that is a different problem.

[izabelai]

I would like to refresh this thread a bit, if you don't mind.
In my case we have three languages in the house. I speak Polish, my husband Japanese and we speak Chinese with my husband (as we met in China as exchange students). As there are not many Polish people here I am actually almost the only one who speaks Polish to them. They understand Polish very well, but they ansewer somtimes in Japanese, sometimes in Polish. But of course Japanese is their first language as they go to Japanese elementary school. Unfortunatelly Polish grammar and pronaunciation is very difficult. I know that my kids won't speak fluent Polish but I am happy they can undrstand and communicate.
But I have a question. What is your language "at the dinning table"? I mean, if there is a rule one parent one language, and one parent doesn't undrestand the language of the other one (like in my case), what language do you use when you are all together and talking about something? Does each one of you speak a different language?

[Richard Burns]

My kids are tri-racial and tri-lingual. They are fluent in Japanese and English. They understand some Tagalog.

[Blues]

wow, that has to be confusing as hell for the kids to mix four languages like that.

[Tanimaga]

I've got English, Japanese, and sign language (which my current wife doesn't understand.. just a subtle thing between my daughter and I).


BTW.. my old co-worker was from Poland, and used to go on and on about the Polish Mafia. I don't think he realized we were holding back explosive laughter.

[SnaFu]

I think that is awesome that so many of you have muli-lingual kids. I wouldn't get too hung up on the accents. If they are placed in an enviroment where it really matters they will probably pick up a cleaner accent (whatever that is) over time.

Big kudos to all of you for encouraging them to be diverse!

[Hisashiburi]

Jin Dubrei! Yak Shimash! (sorry, the spelling is probably terrible, ive never tried writing out my bare minimal Polski on paper before)
My wife and I usually speak a mixture of japanese and english to my son...basically, what ever we feel he is lacking in lately we try to emphasize. We have tried some of the formulas of one parent speaking one languages etc, and found it just didnt work for us. We just go with what feels right. Hope that helps...