Big Meat Eaters & cancer

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17122667

...As expected, Cross found more cases of colon cancer among the big meat eaters. But she also found about the same increase in lung cancer with big meat eaters, as well as increases in cancers of the esophagus and liver. Among men, there was an increase in pancreatic cancer...

If people do choose to eat red meat, Curran says they should avoid high-temperature cooking like barbecuing and pan-frying, which cause cell-damaging compounds to form.

Grilling meat over a direct flame results in fat or meat juices dripping onto the hot fire. That creates flames that contain the harmful compounds, which can then adhere to the surface of the food. That process can happen with chicken and turkey as well as red meat.

"That's why we recommend if you're barbecuing, take particularly chicken, for example, you may want to microwave it halfway cooked, and then put it on barbecue," Curran said. "You don't want to cook it the whole duration, because that really increases the risk of these compounds forming, which are known carcinogens."...

[DougP]

Hmm, interesting. I'll take my chances.:)

[TheLastDon]

Always something new or not so new giving people cancer. :scared::dead::scared::rolleyes:

[DougP]

I think a lot of times life in general gives people cancer.:D

[okisteve]

That warning contained nothing very new. The info about cancer-causing compounds resulting from high-temperature cooking of meats has been around at least 20 years.

I heard a short clip on BBC the other day on this by some twangy-voiced American lady scientist who sounded about 18 . Bad enough when my own daughter (33) lectures me about my diet, I don't need any PhD Valley Girl doing it too.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

I think the variety in types of cancer surprised the researchers. Colon cancer has been a known risk for big meat eaters for some time, but lung cancer was certainly an unexpected find.

[Go-Shay]

If you live long enough eventually you will get cancer. Why not enjoy life?

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Sure Go-Shay, but why not do whatever possible to prevent early cancer, and enjoy life in your 50s, 60s, and 70s, rather than suffering early and having a miserable middle and late age...

[Go-Shay]

Sure Go-Shay, but why not do whatever possible to prevent early cancer, and enjoy life in your 50s, 60s, and 70s, rather than suffering early and having a miserable middle and late age...

I guess that is up to an individuals interpretation of enjoying life

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

I guess that is up to an individuals interpretation of enjoying life
Tru dat. Me, I like having my joints pain-free so I can walk easily (no judo, sumo, or football for me), and being cancer-free as long as possible so I don't need surgery, chemo, or whatever when I'm still young. Sure, there are some factors beyond our control, but there are plenty we can do something about, and still enjoy life.

[TheNoNamedOne]

I think the variety in types of cancer surprised the researchers. Colon cancer has been a known risk for big meat eaters for some time, but lung cancer was certainly an unexpected find.

i have to agree with this. also, this one of the largest and most comprehensive studies to date.

The researchers (http://health.yahoo.com/news/reuters/cancer_meat_dc.html) studied 500,000 people aged 50 to 71 who took part in a diet and health study done in conjunction with the AARP, formerly the American Association for Retired Persons.

After eight years, 53,396 cases of cancer were diagnosed.

"Statistically significant elevated risks (ranging from 20 percent to 60 percent) were evident for esophageal, colorectal, liver, and lung cancer, comparing individuals in the highest with those in the lowest quintile of red meat intake," the researchers wrote.

The people in the top 20 percent of eating processed meat had a 20 percent higher risk of colorectal cancer -- mostly rectal cancer -- and a 16 percent higher risk for lung cancer.

it never ceases to amaze me how people are so quick to poo poo scientific studies when their pleasures are at stake, as if the percents from the statistics and data are meaningless and of no concern to them. but, how many would let their child go to school on a day where it was announced because of a recent infected visitor, your child would have 20% chance of contracting ebola? or even 10%? i would say, "10% is too high. you are not going to school today."

when personal pleasures are involved it seems like the mind goes into a disconnect mode. strange. when personal relations are involved the mind goes into protective mode. but isn't protecting yourself one of the best ways to protect a personal relation?

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

when personal pleasures are involved it seems like the mind goes into a disconnect mode. strange. when personal relations are involved the mind goes into protective mode. but isn't protecting yourself one of the best ways to protect a personal relation?
It's not too hard to understand. You have an addicted brain arguing in favor of the thing it's addicted to. Anything pleasureable - drugs, sex, intense, extreme experiences - release dopamine in the brain, and that is one of the major modes of addiction. Of course when the fix is bad for you the brain can't accept it. It would mean giving up the dopamine.

[TheNoNamedOne]

good point. meat sure can be addictive if the fats cause dopamine to be released and bring the pleasure. our minds should be able to over ride that with reason from more and more studies that keep coming in, but like junkies, I geuss the resistance to giving up that pleasure becomes quite strong.

i have to look, but if i recall, seventh day adventists, which usually adhere to a vegetarian diet, have some of the lowest rates of cancer of any subgroup.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Damn!
Guess I will have to cut back on yakitori:mad:
Seems like everything gives you cancer these days!

but some statistically higher than others. and not just marginally so. i think that is the point to consider.

[DougP]

it never ceases to amaze me how people are so quick to poo poo scientific studies when their pleasures are at stake, as if the percents from the statistics and data are meaningless and of no concern to them. but, how many would let their child go to school on a day where it was announced because of a recent infected visitor, your child would have 20% chance of contracting ebola? or even 10%? i would say, "10% is too high. you are not going to school today."

when personal pleasures are involved it seems like the mind goes into a disconnect mode. strange. when personal relations are involved the mind goes into protective mode. but isn't protecting yourself one of the best ways to protect a personal relation?


Doesn't surprise me at all. We see this all the time when it comes to personal matters be it diet, beliefs, stance of global warming etc. :rolleyes:

[TheLastDon]

It said big meat eaters DUH. If you want to eat a lot of meat or drink a lot of alcohol or smoke 3 packs a days then yes you are a moran.

Moderation is the key and eating a healthy diet, I noticed how it didn't mention anything about how much vegetables or fruit these big meat eaters consumed.

[okisteve]

Believe it or not, the radio interview I heard said your risk increases if you eat more than the equivalent of three hamburgers a week!

I hope she meant Double Whoppers.

[DougP]

It said big meat eaters DUH. If you want to eat a lot of meat or drink a lot of alcohol or smoke 3 packs a days then yes you are a moran.

Moderation is the key and eating a healthy diet, I noticed how it didn't mention anything about how much vegetables or fruit these big meat eaters consumed.

moran?:D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/DougGTR32/moran.jpg

[okisteve]

You're on a roll today, Doug. How do you find this stuff so fast? Google Images?

[DougP]

I had that one on tap(photobucket):D It gets more play on forums than one might think. All in good humor.:)

[P_chan]

Everything gives you cancer now-a-days, people worry too much. Once you die, you die.

[iAmtheMovie]

Run! Carcinogens are contained in everything!
'Cept in the things that fight off carcinogens.

Apparently sunlight aids in preventing cancer.. well, sunlight in moderation.
People with melanoma should be immune to every other form of cancer.

There should be more cancer-neutral foods.

[okisteve]

Grow yer own!

[Oxmix]

I think your genetic make up is the most important factor with regards to disease. On my last physical I talked to my doctor about my PCB and Agent Orange exposure. He basically told me that some people were not affected. Again probably genetic make up. I had one grandmother live to 100. She was a chain smoker her whole life. She never developed cancer. My other grandmother lived to 98. Non drinker, non smoker. No heart disease or cancer. She ate what ever she wanted and never went to the doctor.
Now having said that I myself don't eat red meat, stay away from saturated and trans fats, don't use dairy products such as milk and ice cream, I substitute soy products. I take nutritional supplements and exercise regularly.
I think that if your family had a history of cancer or heart disease you might just want to make some life style changes to reduce your risk. There are lots of great tasting healthy foods out there. :old:

Regards

Ox

[Tanimaga]

I think your genetic make up is the most important factor with regards to disease.

I believe this is true. Lifestyle is a major factor as well. I knew many old farmers nearing the triple digits who insisted on still doing the farm duties. 3 eggs every morning..plenty of bacon, butter, and cream along with it. All the foods that will kill you.

[okisteve]

Anyone read The Okinawa Diet?

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Anyone read The Okinawa Diet?
Yup. Great read. I hear the authors are still around continuing their research.

[okisteve]

Anyone interested in why the Okinawans live so long should grab it.

The authors are still around and did an interesting nutrition study this year with the help of MC nutritionists, based on Okinawa vegetables and using about 150 mostly SOFA people (lots of DoD teachers) as guinea pigs. I think the results will be out soon. It was written up in JU too.

Cholesterol: I could not get mine down by dieting, so I am now on drugs (couldn't you tell?;)). So you are right about there being strong genetic factors in cancer and heart disease.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Not a big believer in cholesterol numbers...

[okisteve]

Not a big believer in cholesterol numbers...

We have total freedom of belief or non-belief on this forum, eel, until informed otherwise.

However, there is pretty solid evidence that high cholesterol increases your risk of coronary artery disease. Most people don't worry about it as long as they don't have any symptoms.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Last I heard, no-one really knows just how cholesterol is manufactured by the body. It's seems rather difficult to correlate with cholesterol consumption...

[okisteve]

That's the point I was trying to make above - that diet alone does not always help. But it doesn't matter whether you have high cholesterol from foods or from your mom, you're at a higher risk.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Gotcha! My powers of perception have been weak as of late...some sort of forum kyptonite lying about, perhaps.

[okisteve]

Naah. Kryptonite is odorless.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Your wicked sense of humour is much appeciated!

[Oxmix]

Cholesterol: I could not get mine down by dieting, so I am now on drugs (couldn't you tell?;)). So you are right about there being strong genetic factors in cancer and heart disease.

Believe it or not, one or two beers a day can increase your good cholesterol in case you didn't already know that.

Regards

Ox

[okisteve]

Believe it or not, one or two beers a day can increase your good cholesterol in case you didn't already know that.

Regards

Ox

I would love to believe that! Do you have any links that would help convince me before I start chugging? I wonder if there is some association between beer-yeast-niacin? Niacin in megadoses does raise HDL and I have tried it.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

That may be the so-called "French paradox"...those who drink a glass or wine or two daily, along with eating a lot of rich foods seem to be as healthy as non-tipplers who shun rich foods.

From a mag I like to read:
http://archive.salon.com/travel/food/feature/2000/02/04/paradox/

One of the big things researchers have noticed recently is that the French, while eating more fats overall than Americans, they do take in fewer calories (ie. smaller portions/meals). There has been a 25-75% portion size differential noted between restaurant portions between NYC and Paris.

[Tanimaga]

Do they consider island living and small overall body size as contributing factors to the Okinawan longevity? Both are pluses for long life.

[okisteve]

Do they consider island living and small overall body size as contributing factors to the Okinawan longevity? Both are pluses for long life.

I don't know about island living per se like living on any old island (Manhattan?), but the Okinawa lifestyle is considered a definite plus. Relaxed, easygoing, close family ties, spirituality, positivity about one's own culture, etc.


Others - goya, papaya, leafy greens, tofu, well-cooked pork (who knew?).

Maybe small body size too. I donated my copy to the library so I can't check.

[Tanimaga]

I do recall seeing a National Geographic documentary on how semi-isolated island life was a major key in healthy long lives. Manhattan doesn't seem to qualify there though.

If being small means long life, I better not buy green bananas.

[okisteve]

That may be the so-called "French paradox"...those who drink a glass or wine or two daily, along with eating a lot of rich foods seem to be as healthy as non-tipplers who shun rich foods.

From a mag I like to read:
http://archive.salon.com/travel/food/feature/2000/02/04/paradox/

One of the big things researchers have noticed recently is that the French, while eating more fats overall than Americans, they do take in fewer calories (ie. smaller portions/meals). There has been a 25-75% portion size differential noted between restaurant portions between NYC and Paris.

From that Saron rink you cited:

Nutritionists on this side of the Atlantic are just as dour in their predictions. Marion Nestle, chair of New York University's department of nutrition, says that the wonderful food she found on every street corner in Paris when she lived there in 1983 has changed. "Then you could go into some local bar, and you would be given a little tart, a little salad and a little quiche that would knock your socks off," she says wistfully.

How can anyone take nutrition advice seriously from someone named Nestle. Anyway, everyone knows you aren't just given a tart, you have to buy one.:old::old:

[okisteve]

Following the McDonaldization - Okinawa longevity connection.... The same researchers from The Okinawa Diet (Willcox, Willcox, and Suzuki) and colleagues from Ryudai have correlated the increased fat consumption on Okinawa following WWII with the increase in average body weight, and the decreasing longevity lead that Okinawans had over other prefectures.

It's the Spam, stupid!

[okisteve]

I do recall seeing a National Geographic documentary on how semi-isolated island life was a major key in healthy long lives. Manhattan doesn't seem to qualify there though.

If being small means long life, I better not buy green bananas.

Seems like a lot of big guys around here. So why isn't anyone taking up my brilliant idea of a BMI Poll?

Mine's 22.8 as of today.

Island living is probably low-stress in general, as long as there's enough to go around. Unfortunately it looks like global warming is going to be changing that idyllic picture, and there are other exceptions like Niue and Kiribati and Tokelau where they have screwed things up all by themselves.

I came to Okinawa a few years after being in a super high-stress environment
and I feel it has saved my life. I have almost zero contact with westerners, and I'm not boasting about my poor Japanese but there are some plusses to being able to tune out what other people are saying.:first:

[Tanimaga]

BMI poll? I'm 6ft, 270ish..a good solid biker build. I think well above the 30 mark.