To Christians: What about former Christians who have renounced Christianity?

[TheNoNamedOne]

Do Christians consider those who are atheists now who claim to have once been a Christian to have actually been a Christian then? Or, do they hold the view that they never were Christians in the first place?

[DougP]

Its funny you should ask that because I often wonder if I was ever really a Christian in the first place. I did attend church and read the good book, sing from the hymnals etc. But because I never really felt like a true believer, more like I was being made to go through the motions, I can't say for sure if I was a true Christian. Good question indeed.

[Isaak Brodsky]

Fantastic question TP.

Religion, to me, is just a series of rites and rituals that prepare your mind for some sort of worship or veneration of some object of desire.

Strip away the religion, and you will find the heart of the message.

Those who turn away from the Good News perhaps never uncovered that News buried under all of the rituals and hypocrisies of those seeking the same thing.

I hope this is not offensive. It is certainly not meant to be. I was apprised of this Good News in the opposite way, so maybe my points here aren't really helpful to the question.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Those who turn away from the Good News perhaps never uncovered that News buried under all of the rituals and hypocrisies of those seeking the same thing.

Ian, so to me...I interpret this as your way of expressing your opinion that: "No, they never were Christians."

Minus the fluff, that is what you are saying, isn't it?

I hope this is not offensive. It is certainly not meant to be. I was apprised of this Good News in the opposite way, so maybe my points here aren't really helpful to the question.[/SIZE][/FONT]

Not offensive at all. Your kind (and other Christians') of pointed opinion is exactly what I am looking for here. Could you actually come out and say directly, "They never were Christians"?

I don't think being a Christian demands that you have the feeling of feeling like a Christian does (whatever that means), does it?

[Isaak Brodsky]

Ian, so to me...I interpret this as your way of expressing your opinion that: "No, they never were Christians."

I can see now why you'd conclude this.

I didn't really mean that.

Of course, how can one turn away from what one is not aware of??

To illustrate further: On the surface, Christianity appears to be a major religion, but I think that if you strip out the countless architectural monuments of devotion that have been erected throughout, say, Europe and America, all of the concrete symbols of Christ's passion upon which people focus, all of the rites and rituals, then the central point of Christ's message can emerge.

I only imagine that to those who have pondered the meaning of all the concrete markers of faith that their wondering produced no relevant answers.

As such, the apparently pointless ritualistic endeavors provided no impulse for those who've found themselves in communion with other Christians to dig even more deeply for communion with Christ.

Perhaps guilt or innocense by association cannot be counted in this case as a marker of explicit awareness of and experience in Christ's presence.

Hope this clarifies my point.

[TheNoNamedOne]

[FONT="Trebuchet MS"][SIZE="3"]I can see now why you'd conclude this.

I didn't really mean that.

Of course, how can one turn away from what one is not aware of??

Clever reply, and again it can only be interpreted to mean that you believe they never were Christians.

Of course I catch the meaning of your answer; it is nuanced quite well, but for argument's sake, let's say you had to explain that answer to a child who surprised you with that question in front of a group of other children and you wanted all of them to understand clearly without trying to catch nuances (or speak only to the more clever child who came up with the question); if the children were all 8 years old, would you clearly state something like, "I person who says he stopped being a Christian, never was a Christian." or "A person who stopped believing Jesus was God and the Son of God, never ever really did believe such a thing."?

How would you explain it to small children, Ian? While I enjoy your style and vocabularly, there are times I would like you to speak more simply -- particularly to pointed questions. Or at least acknowledge with a "Yes, that, too, is an accurate interpretation."

[Isaak Brodsky]

How would you explain it to small children, Ian? While I enjoy your style and vocabularly, there are times I would like you to speak more simply -- particularly to pointed questions. Or at least acknowledge with a "Yes, that, too, is an accurate interpretation."

Good questions. I suppose I'd use the same sorts of illustrations I've been using in this forum such as the one about me remembering that "I am an orphan, a ..."

[Bones]

Just a thought.

One of the things that we struggle with, is the "Cause&Effect Theory". Something, somewhere along the line, caused the "Big Bang", which supposedly got this whole mess started.

For that event to have occurred, something triggered that event. In our line of thinking, how can something start from nothing?

It boggles the mind.

NBTP

[Tony Stacks]

Nobody can say anybody is a true Christian.
I believe in Jesus but I don't really consider myself a Christian because I have my own theories on things. I don't think the Bible is 100% dependablr alone.

One theory I have is that an Atheist can make it to heaven. Why? Because think about it: An Atheist that is a good person is a good person because they want to be.

[Tony Stacks]

One thing to add I have seen many Atheists that act a lot more Christ like than these damn Bible thumping Xenofobes.

[devine]

I was raised a Christian in my days I have fallen away from the church to worship and have my "issues" with GOD. But I don't believe that makes me any less of a Christian nor makes me a bad Christian. I believe everyone one has a right to their own belief and own opinion on how they precieve any religion. It's what is right for you. I believe that the bible is a guide book to good humanity and values. Morals and values are what is missing in a lot of our children now growing up. I am not saying the church is the answer to instill those. But if the "Bible" was to be written in a "How to..." format than I am sure it would be looked at in a different way. Of course. I don't believe everything in the bible is to be true or how it should be today. The fact of giving tidings to a church from a family who can not afford to put food on the table is rediculous. Also who cares if a gay couple gets married, it might not be my thing but ya know to each their own and that is what I been saying about so many things. If only so many others could just say.. To Each Their Own. Then we would have so much less conflict about religion, politics and let's say it... Abortion.
Are you gonna take away the love of your life because he is a man? or a woman? No.. I prefer man over woman. Never kissed a woman either to know if that would interest me. I am sure my husband would love to see that happen. lol. Either way. Just as you hold hatred for a preference of someone, you shall be judged in the same mannor.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Devine, I think you made some interesting remarks, which I will probably use to start another thread, but speaking as a Christian and to address the OP, how do you feel about people who say they are now not Christians but at one time were? Do you think they ever truely were Christians?

I have often come across Christians who deny the title to those who claim they once were Christians.

[devine]

Seriously. I believe everyone is different is this situation. It is possible to have faith and lose it. It happens to a lot of people. Simply peoples ideas change over time. When you are younger and brought up to be Christian you believe in something as you grow up and you have a better understanding of what is possible and/or not possible then I think you can decide that you are not or ever have been Christian but how you were intianally raised. Either way. It's either never had it or loss of faith. Which is where I am borderline. Loss of faith. I still believe in Santa. Does that make me crazy? A whole another topic.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Thanks devine for your answer. Btw, you may want to check this new thread (http://www.japanupdate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2943) out which I quoted you in the OP.