The right to objectify women

[TheNoNamedOne]

Feminists and perhaps some others find it offensive that men feel they have the right (or that it is acceptable) to objectify the woman's body for their visual pleasure -- be it through ogling or jokes. Whether the target of that objectifying is a willing accomplice in that or not is irrelevant, for all women share the attributes (though not quality) that are being objectified.

Objectifying a human is the most dehumanizing of all actions. For, how low can you become after you've become an object? Even Indians and their Karmic wheel understand the process of being made down to lower and lower ranks within the material world.

Even here in this forum we see images of women being posted in an ogling sense and, therefore, they are objectified. Not like anyone is talking about the "person", but more so about the parts of the body whole as if they were just some object, like as if someone admires a car or motorcycle.

Why shouldn't such treatment of women' bodies be considered offensive and permitted? -- particularly by any group or person who feels they champion the protection of sensitivities of others who they feel are or possibly could be offended?

[Asshat]

Why shouldn't such treatment of women' bodies be considered offensive and permitted? -- particularly by any group or person who feels they champion the protection of sensitivities of others who they feel are or possibly could be offended?

Because many women want to be objectified. There are many examples right here on this forum.

Other women on this forum have put certain avatar owners on ignore because they objected to this objectification.

In other words, it all works out in the end, but it is the woman who needs to ensure she is not an object-since many of her sisters do not feel that way.

Any other option involves having one's cake...and eating it too. And the current divorce court trends are already doing that for us. We don't see feminests protesting when the assets are divided in favor of the woman.

[Hollarey]

I agree with Uminchu about some examples being displayed on this forum. Some women put themselves out their to be objectified.

Women are beautiful. I see why men become fascinated with a women's body. Hell, I fascinate Jessical Biel's body. This site is male dominated so most threads do talk about women's bodies. Well, not most...just a few but that is why I suggested us ladies having our thread as well.

[Asshat]

I agree with Uminchu about some examples being displayed on this forum. Some women put themselves out their to be objectified.

Women are beautiful. I see why men become fascinated with a women's body. Hell, I fascinate Jessical Biel's body. This site is male dominated so most threads do talk about women's bodies. Well, not most...just a few but that is why I suggested us ladies having our thread as well.

I think there is a built-in quota somewhere to keep this male-dominated. Most of us wouldn't be able to stand the heat if you all ganged up on us.

If you had a woman-only thread, I would have to continually bribe dk with my credits to see what you were saying. :D

And yes, a woman's body, even her soul is very fascinating to most of us men.

[socalheart]

It's always been one way or another or both; just the terms for it have changed. I recall reading that back in 17th century Europe, the noble men were the ones gussied up to attract females moreso than the females. During the late 19th century, women were thought more attractive the more covered up they were. (I think I have the times about right. Correct as necessary, as the dates aren't the point.) In the first half of the last century, the women were the ones who turned heads more than the men. In the latter part of the century, the "sexual revolution" tipped the scales back the other way, albeit not balanced.

Women objectify men in a similar way. They're just not as vulgarly obvious at it as most men. heh. Anyhow, a simple browse through the magazine section shows just how much more men objectify women, and how many women put themselves out there to be objectified. It isn't right, but it is.

Again, education is important on both sides of the fence. It's about respect. Appreciating and admiring the body of the opposite gender is great. It's a Golden Rule thing, I suppose. Many people have little to no respect for the opposite gender, so they find nothing wrong objectifying that gender.

As a teenager, I had pictures of movie stars on my locker wall. (I had the biggest crush on Michael J. Fox as Alex Keaton. heh.) The pictures were just of the face or the subject was fully clothed though. These days, the picture is of the actor in their underwear nine out of ten times. What's that about?! People buy it, is what that is about. Sex sells these days. Innocence, or even the semblance of it, has gone the way of the dodo.

[DougP]

Hmm some how how I don't have a problem with any of this. I mean people look at it like women are being objectified when they see a Maxim, Playboy or one of the many magazines for men. But the beautiful women on the cover and in the magazine look at it like "I got payed because I'm hot, yeah suckas!" So While some sit back and think its disgusting others are enjoying it and reaping the benefits. Hell I have no problem with men being objectified. Shit if women wanted to they could try to burn a hole right through me with their glare.:D I take that as a compliment. The human body is a thing of beauty.. well for the most part.. there are a few examples that aren't to pleasant. In those instances I wouldn't consider them being objectified, no sir, that would be torture.:D

[DocTurtle]

You mean people are against this right??

[P_chan]

And yes, a woman's body, even her soul is very fascinating to most of us men.

Exactly! A woman's body is beautiful IMO. The curves are nice and it's just all around nice to look at (unless she has a bush). Now a man's body? That's just kinda gross, all hairy, fat, and sweaty:D

[Hollarey]

Now I can say that I find a female body appealing, why cant a guy say the same about his own sex?? I find broad shoulders and strong arms to be incredibly appealing on men.

[DougP]

Now I can say that I find a female body appealing, why cant a guy say the same about his own sex?? I find broad shoulders and strong arms to be incredibly appealing on men.

I'm much too busy admiring the woman's body to pay any attention to men:first:
Besides if I wanted to admire the man's body I could just stare at myself:D

[Asshat]

Now I can say that I find a female body appealing, why cant a guy say the same about his own sex?? I find broad shoulders and strong arms to be incredibly appealing on men.

There is a difference between sexually appealing and appretiative. When I see a man who has spent a lot of time in the gym, I always think "right on dude, you look good" or something like that. On the other hand, I do not find it to be anything remotely appealing.

Also, you women tend to look at guy's behinds and make value judgements. I doubt any heterosexual guy even knows what a "good ass" on a guy looks like, much less appreciates it.

Enter the metrosexual. But I think they're all still in NYC.

You may have pointed out the major difference between the genders by the way...the ability to determine if one of the same gender is "appealing."

I haven't a clue.

[socalheart]

Besides if I wanted to admire the man's body I could just stare at myself:D

if you look like your avatar dude, I'd go blind staring at you. :p I never got into the superbuff guys, but there's only so much my retinas can handle. heh. ;)

Enter the metrosexual. But I think they're all still in NYC.
don't forget Los Angeles and San Francisco!

[Asshat]

Well, if any of you "guys" are appreciating my ass....stop right now.

[ryukyuboi]

I admire the human form.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Because many women want to be objectified. There are many examples right here on this forum.

What about the ones who do not want to be objectified and associate female form of another with themselves since they are in the same group? Why should some examples that don't mind win out over the feelings of offensiveness that some may have?

Other women on this forum have put certain avatar owners on ignore because they objected to this objectification.

I agree with this action, but why should they have to go out of their way and take it upon themselves to avoid being confronted with those images they find offensive?

In other words, it all works out in the end, but it is the (a)woman who needs to ensure she is not (b)an object-since many of her sisters (c)do not feel that way.

Could the same reasoning be constructed like this:?

In other words, it all works out in the end, but it is the (a)Christian who needs to ensure that he/she is not (b)sensitive to controversial discussions and ideas about their religion since many Christians (c)do not feel the same way that controversial discussions and ideas cannot be put forth and addressed.

What I see is a certain kind of favoritism to a construct that is not cutting across the spectrum. These NSFW threads with women objectified are illustrating that quite well -- and whether someone comes out strongly against them is irrelevant. Could be that those who accept them are just broad minded enough to not play a certain kind of favoritism as the ace they pull out from their sleeve to throw at what bothers them.

[Isaak Brodsky]

...Objectifying a human is the most dehumanizing of all actions. ...

Amen to that.

Yeah, funny how we treat undesirable fetuses.

[Fonze]

Come play poker folks in the casino. texas holdem

[Isaak Brodsky]

Your avatar is bitchin' Camaro.

[Tony Stacks]

Feminists and perhaps some others find it offensive that men feel they have the right (or that it is acceptable) to objectify the woman's body for their visual pleasure -- be it through ogling or jokes. Whether the target of that objectifying is a willing accomplice in that or not is irrelevant, for all women share the attributes (though not quality) that are being objectified.

Objectifying a human is the most dehumanizing of all actions. For, how low can you become after you've become an object? Even Indians and their Karmic wheel understand the process of being made down to lower and lower ranks within the material world.

Even here in this forum we see images of women being posted in an ogling sense and, therefore, they are objectified. Not like anyone is talking about the "person", but more so about the parts of the body whole as if they were just some object, like as if someone admires a car or motorcycle.

Why shouldn't such treatment of women' bodies be considered offensive and permitted? -- particularly by any group or person who feels they champion the protection of sensitivities of others who they feel are or possibly could be offended?


What about the way women objectfy men?
It's natural for both.

Example chicks like omg look at Beckham and Justin Timberlake so what is the difference?

Anybody that sees something attractive will look so wtf?

[TheNoNamedOne]

What about the way women objectfy men?
It's natural for both.

Example chicks like omg look at Beckham and Justin Timberlake so what is the difference?

Anybody that sees something attractive will look so wtf?

Yeah, wtf, right!?

The point is that there are people who find objectifying women (and perhaps men -- or any human) offensive. Are you suggesting that that group which finds it offensive just has to suck it up and accept it because not all people find it offensive?

[mikersoft]

The point is that there are people who find objectifying women (and perhaps men -- or any human) offensive. Are you suggesting that that group which finds it offensive just has to suck it up and accept it because not all people find it offensive?

The point is that there are people who find BLANK offensive. Are you suggesting that that group which finds it offensive just has to suck it up and accept it because not all people find it offensive?

Interesting that you can substitute nearly any action or activity for BLANK.

[Tempestuous]

Now I can say that I find a female body appealing, why cant a guy say the same about his own sex?? I find broad shoulders and strong arms to be incredibly appealing on men.

I think the female body in general is created in a softer manner and it looks beautiful. It is sensual, it is beautiful, it's a work of art, it fuels desire, it is sexual, it is a driving force. I don't think it is JUST an object.

A mans body can look nice, be attractive, etc.
HOWEVER- I believe the mentality between a woman looking at a man vs a man looking at a man is what makes the difference.

The attributes you mentioned are what makes a man appear "manly". They give the perception of protection, stability, power, strength,etc. Attributes that often women desire in a mate.

When a man looks at a man he isn't "drawn" to those attributes. He doesn't emotionally desire those attributes in his mate. Therefore- he looks at a good lookin guy and see's a dude that is fit, worked out or whatever, but is not drawn to it.

When he looks at a woman her body calls to him in much the same way a man's body does to a woman. He sees attributes that turn him on, that create a desire to protect her, shield her, be a knight in shining armor for her, etc.
(Depending on the guy....:D some are shallow and just wanna get some)
A woman can look at a woman & still see the beauty in the body and appreciate it. Many women can admire the beauty of the female body with their male counterparts.

Just some incoherent thoughts on the subject. :)

[Isaak Brodsky]

I think the female body in general is created in a softer manner and it looks beautiful. It is sensual, it is beautiful, it's a work of art, it fuels desire, it is sexual, it is a driving force. I don't think it is JUST an object.

Be careful here; you've got to remember to give credit to only natural physical observable forces of nature as creative entities for the present splendor of a woman's shape.

That shape, in my opinion, is so sublime, so entirely and aesthetically sound that no one can ignore it: hence the marketing of sensuality even in products as banal as belt buckles or pen holders.

[Hollarey]

When a man looks at a man he isn't "drawn" to those attributes. He doesn't emotionally desire those attributes in his mate. Therefore- he looks at a good lookin guy and see's a dude that is fit, worked out or whatever, but is not drawn to it.
:)


I dont think I put that correctly. I look at another woman, and can honestly say that she is hot, beautiful, gorgeous, has nice legs, nice body, etc. However, you never hear a guy compliment another guy. I wasnt meaning that they are "drawn" to them or that they find it appealing. But do guys actually acknowledge other men's physical features as do women with other women?

[TheNoNamedOne]

The point is that there are people who find BLANK offensive. Are you suggesting that that group which finds it offensive just has to suck it up and accept it because not all people find it offensive?

Interesting that you can substitute nearly any action or activity for BLANK.

Indeed, mikersoft. [By the way I see you are a little new (welcome to the forums)]

The nuance of this thread is not so hidden and refers to a balanced playing field (http://www.japanupdate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2713) to some who wish it were not so (http://www.japanupdate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2721).

Biased favoritism in the form of censoring for the sensitivities of others (http://www.japanupdate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2782) on world and social issues sucks. But many still call for that despite people dying for the freedom to do so. I can think of several examples where the fight to stop creative style and topics have resulted in thwarting that freedom to some extent.

[atb35]

I dont think I put that correctly. I look at another woman, and can honestly say that she is hot, beautiful, gorgeous, has nice legs, nice body, etc. However, you never hear a guy compliment another guy. I wasnt meaning that they are "drawn" to them or that they find it appealing. But do guys actually acknowledge other men's physical features as do women with other women?

Outside of a guy saying, "Damn, that guy is huge about some bodybuilder...not really". Who knows though, in todays society it is ok to be gay and have feelings and stuff, so perhaps guys are starting to compliment each other on their exquisite hairy back or ears these days.....

[Tony Stacks]

Yeah, wtf, right!?

The point is that there are people who find objectifying women (and perhaps men -- or any human) offensive. Are you suggesting that that group which finds it offensive just has to suck it up and accept it because not all people find it offensive?


Yup that's right!:cool:

[Tempestuous]

I dont think I put that correctly. I look at another woman, and can honestly say that she is hot, beautiful, gorgeous, has nice legs, nice body, etc. However, you never hear a guy compliment another guy. I wasnt meaning that they are "drawn" to them or that they find it appealing. But do guys actually acknowledge other men's physical features as do women with other women?

No, no I wasn't meaning sexually attracted either. But I don't think they value/appreciate the physique of the same sex in the same manner a female can another female.

I also don't think men are quite as critical of other men like women are to the female form in general.

As for Ian's comment.....
We are all created, we are CAUSED to happen when the sperm burrows it's way to the egg.
Whether you believe it is scientific or ordained by some supernatural being.....you were still created/caused to happen/brought about/constructed/brought into being/evolved or whatnot when the sperm & egg joined, then planted in the uterus & then was gestated/incubated or whatever for the remainder of the pregnancy. :)

[mikersoft]

Indeed, mikersoft. [By the way I see you are a little new (welcome to the forums)] Thanks.

The nuance of this thread is not so hidden and refers to a balanced playing field (http://www.japanupdate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2713) to some who wish it were not so (http://www.japanupdate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2721).

Biased favoritism in the form of censoring for the sensitivities of others (http://www.japanupdate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2782) on world and social issues sucks. But many still call for that despite people dying for the freedom to do so. I can think of several examples where the fight to stop creative style and topics have resulted in thwarting that freedom to some extent.

It’s quite an interesting dilemma we’re in. On the one hand, we want to limit censorship to allow free thinking and creative expression. However, a society needs to have some commonly acceptable practices and beliefs bases on the convictions of its members. Without that, we’re not really a society. We’re just a bunch of clashing humans. That wouldn’t be very productive.

-Mike

[Bones]

As posted by Hollarey:

I dont think I put that correctly. I look at another woman, and can honestly say that she is hot, beautiful, gorgeous, has nice legs, nice body, etc. However, you never hear a guy compliment another guy. I wasnt meaning that they are "drawn" to them or that they find it appealing. But do guys actually acknowledge other men's physical features as do women with other women?

Sometimes they do, but not in the same manner as I'm thinking as it relates to your meaning.

I've run into a lot of guys since I hung up my uniform, back in 94. Some of those guys (they used to be "Babe Magnets" back then), keep asking me how I stay so thin, and young looking?

Got smacked down by a SgtMJ this afternoon while shopping at Foster. Forgot to shave, my hair is a little longer than I usually wear (not too bad, barely touching my ears). So that was probably the biggest compliment that I've received, to date.:D:old:

But I get your drift as well. :D

I think that women are more sensitive to another woman's body, because she represents a threat. Let's say the husband looks at another woman, and immediately the wife starts thinking "Oh-Oh!!!".

NBTP

[DougP]

As for Ian's comment.....
We are all created, we are CAUSED to happen when the sperm burrows it's way to the egg.
Whether you believe it is scientific or ordained by some supernatural being.....you were still created/caused to happen/brought about/constructed/brought into being/evolved or whatnot when the sperm & egg joined, then planted in the uterus & then was gestated/incubated or whatever for the remainder of the pregnancy. :)

Well I guess you can say it doesn't matter who's car we came in, we're here now and that much we do know.:D

[Tempestuous]

I think that women are more sensitive to another woman's body, because she represents a threat. Let's say the husband looks at another woman, and immediately the wife starts thinking "Oh-Oh!!!".

NBTP

I don't mind him lookin. Hell we have partaken many conversations about this or that feature or body we saw.
What I would mind is him actually PARTAKING of another woman.

Besides-
I think as long as a man has a pulse he is gonna look. Especially for those females that have it all hangin out. You have crossed a whole nother line when you pursue it though.

[Maggie]

Because many women want to be objectified. There are many examples right here on this forum.

Other women on this forum have put certain avatar owners on ignore because they objected to this objectification.

In other words, it all works out in the end, but it is the woman who needs to ensure she is not an object-since many of her sisters do not feel that way.

Any other option involves having one's cake...and eating it too. And the current divorce court trends are already doing that for us. We don't see feminests protesting when the assets are divided in favor of the woman.

I'll be subtle.

I couldn't give a horses arse what men think of me, but I appreciate the odd whistle at my age.

Maggie :D

[Maggie]

Yeah, wtf, right!?

The point is that there are people who find objectifying women (and perhaps men -- or any human) offensive. Are you suggesting that that group which finds it offensive just has to suck it up and accept it because not all people find it offensive?

No, women don't have to put up with anything they don't like.

We have voices, we can complain.

Before I go on to say what I'm going to, I need to explain something.

I've worked all my healthy life, and I've never done a female's job.

I've been a road sweeper, the first UK female MOD dog handler. Done some pretty Heavyweight security jobs. Explosives search. Competed in Schutzhund and beat the boys. I've even done stunt jobs.

But, I never burned my Bra. I've done the jobs I liked.

I'm NOT a feminist.

When I go out, I wear makeup, I put on attractive clothes. I wear shoes that are flattering, stockings, I do my hair. I can assure you that I don't do this to attract women.

I'm married, but I want men to see me as an attractive female. Every other female I know does the same, married or not. If we don't want to appear at our best, then why don't we wear old working rubbish, and go out in trainers, and with dirty hair.

If I don't want a man ogling me, I'll tell him. That usually works just fine. I don't feel violated, just annoyed.

Maggie:cool:

[kinville_warrior]

I go to Hooters for two big reasons -- booze and wings!:thumbup:

[kombu_kid]

Too much thinking going on here.....we're on this stinkin' planet together, we screw each other to make babies, (usually) we look at a few select specimens of the opposite gender & think "Wow.....I could rock that!..."

So, what's the B.F.D.?......if you don't like the attention, go become a hermit, wear a burka, or let your appearance go to sh**. Some people just live to run around & bitch how they're "offended"......I think that they "get off" more on that than being ogled, scoped-out, whatever......

Once certain people figure out that they can make people jump by saying "I'm offended"......it becomes a power trip. I can understand a woman not enjoying crude remarks made by construction company cro-mags, but ogling??........gimme a break. I'll check it out 'til my neck hurts. I know some fools would love to take that right away from me too.

[Big-Kokujin]

I blame EVERYTHING on society.

This kinda falls along the same lines. Its society, why, because it glorifies young men banging(for lack of wanting to think of a more appropriate word) their HOT teachers. If it was some 26 year old guy banging a 15 year old chick it wouldn't cause so much controversy. his ass would be thrown in jail, end of story.

Society plays such a big part that even somethings that are wrong seem okay to me, even though I know its not. I know I wish i could have been 16 banging a hot teacher. but legally its wrong. even if it were(and it would be) my choice.

Its society that tells "us" its okay for a man to walk around topless and a woman cant, when in fact its the same "things" you see just in a different shape.

So its society that says a woman can call another chick hot but a guy would be called a homo(pardon the slang, no offense) Its probably because normally when you make statments like that, i.e. anything positive, society make you think its because you are attracted to that which you are commenting on.

Hope I made sense.

[Maggie]

You make perfect sense.
Society seems to lean a little in our favour.

Maggie :cool:

[dk]

So far, society doesn't seem to mind that I walk around in my boxers all day with the curtains open.

Although, I do live on the second floor, so you have to actually try a little if you want to see me. :o

I agree, though, Big-Kokujin. :)

[kombu_kid]

Save the world. Work at home.

And there are other benefits to that as well......

I walk around in my boxers all day with the curtains open.

[dk]

And there are other benefits to that as well......
:D :D :D :D :D