Scientology

[DougP]

Well we members of JU certainly do discuss Christianity and Atheism enough.:D
Haven't really discussed this one yet though. Scientology. A religion started by science fiction novelist L Ron Hubbard. In mid-1952, Hubbard expanded Dianetics into an "applied religious philosophy" which he called Scientology.
Lots of mystery surrounds this religion that is often considered a cult in some areas. Germany for one, is try to ban Scientology from its country claiming it is in violation of their constitution. Heres a couple oof vids to go along with this OP.

Let me know what your take on this is. Is it a real religion? Is it legitimate? Does it offer the truth? Is it pure hog wash? Or could Scientology be one of L Ron Hubbard's greatest pulp fiction creations ever? Perhaps his final masterpiece.

Video starts off talking about Tom Cruise and then dips a bit into Scientology.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB87IJT78M8

Cult awareness 60 minutes
YouTube - Scientology - The Cult Awareness Network

A video that says not so nice things about Scientology
YouTube - The Un-Funny TRUTH about Scientology

BBC Panorama: "Scientology and Me"
YouTube - BBC Panorama: "Scientology and Me"

[DougP]

Some more on the BBC documentary.
Part 1
YouTube - Scientology and Me Panorama L Ron Hubbard PART 1 OF 3

Just follow the links on the page to the next parts.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Let me know what your take on this is. Is it a real religion?

Of course it is a real religion. Why wouldn't it be?

Is it legitimate?

Legitimate in what sense?

Does it offer the truth?

Probably in some bits and pieces yes and no, just like other religions. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Is it pure hog wash? Or could Scientology be one of L Ron Hubbard's greatest pulp fiction creations ever? Perhaps his final masterpiece.

Yes and no to all points here.

[DougP]

Well I was a bit vague in the opening with my questions in hopes that the responses might not be. But ok, TP do you recognize Scientology as a religion? Or do you think its a cult? What are your opinions on Scientology?

[kombu_kid]

I know pretty much nothing about it, except that Tom Cruise looks weird to the point of being downright scary. Him and Travolta seem to be total true believers.

[TheNoNamedOne]

But ok, TP do you recognize Scientology as a religion? Or do you think its a cult?

A religion is a cult. Just as a small propeller plane is a flying craft like a 747 is. One is just more flashy and stronger in its total parts.

Why would Scientology or Heavens Gates be a cult and Catholicism/Christianity not be? Is it just about familiarity, size, and organization?

Surely it isn't about swallowing absurd and unlikely stories and assertions, is it?

What are your opinions on Scientology?

As a religion or cult, as are all religions and cults are, it, too, is dangerous because it perverts reason.

Doug, does Scientology have a basic premise in a one or two sentence format to give us a general gist of their beliefs.

I am pretty sure I could sum up Christianity in a short para. Since you are bringing up Scientology, perhaps you could paraphrase their beliefs briefly. I bet absurdities could be seen in it. As it is now, I am still trying to get over Tom Cruse telling Brook Shields to get off her antidepressant drugs and take vitamins to cure herself.

[DougP]

Ha ha yeah I remember that.:D I'll list up a few basic beliefs here later. I'm really still digging into this whole thing myself. Funny considering I grew up not to far from the Mecca of Scientology, Clearwater, Florida.:) What separates this particular cult from the others is that it the course it charges for does not amount to worship. Very peculiar to say the least. The other big league religions do at least follow a pretty basic model of Deity, prophet, disciples, saints and followers.

Until then you should watch some of the vids or dig a bit into it yourself. :)

[DougP]

Ok some more information on Scientology. Here's a little bit on Dianetics, beliefs and goals in life according to their church.

Taken from their website: http://www.scientology.org/
The word Scientology literally means "the study of truth." It comes from the Latin word "scio" meaning "knowing in the fullest sense of the word" and the Greek word "logos" meaning "study of."

Scientology is the study and handling of the spirit in relationship to itself, others and all of life. The Scientology religion comprises a body of knowledge extending from certain fundamental truths. Prime among these:

Man is an immortal, spiritual being. His experience extends well beyond a single lifetime. His capabilities are unlimited, even if not presently realized — and those capabilities can be realized. He is able to not only solve his own problems, accomplish his goals and gain lasting happiness, but also achieve new, higher states of awareness and ability.

In Scientology no one is asked to accept anything as belief or on faith. That which is true for you is what you have observed to be true. An individual discovers for himself that Scientology works by personally applying its principles and observing or experiencing results.

Through Scientology, people all over the world are achieving the long-sought goal of true spiritual release and freedom.

Dianetics
Dianetics comes from the Greek words dia (through) and nous (soul). Dianetics could be said to be what the soul is doing to the body. It provides answers to the fundamental riddles of the mind with a thoroughly validated method that increases sanity, intelligence, confidence and well-being. It gets rid of the unwanted sensations, unpleasant emotions and psychosomatic ills that block one's life and happiness. Dianetics rests on basic principles that can be easily learned and applied by any reasonably intelligent person—as millions have. It is the route to a well, happy, high IQ human being.

Dianetics addresses the part of the mind that operates below the conscious level, exerting a hidden influence that causes you to react irrationally, say and do things that "aren't you," and have inexplicable emotions and ills that hold back intelligence and ability. It all resolves with Dianetics.

Goal in life
One of the most fundamental breakthroughs of Dianetics is the concise statement of the goal of life itself. This, the dynamic principle of man's existence, was discovered by L. Ron Hubbard. From this fundamental discovery many hitherto unanswered questions about man and life were resolved. The goal of life can be considered to be infinite survival. That man seeks to survive has long been known, but that it is his primary motivation is new. Man, as a life form, can be demonstrated to obey in all his action and purposes the one command: SURVIVE!

SURVIVE! is the common denominator of all life, and from it came the critical resolution of man's ills and aberrations. Survival is not only the difference between life and death. Nor does it mean merely existing. It encompasses things like ideals, love and art as vital aspects. The better one is able to manage his life and increase his level of survival, the more he will have pleasure, abundance and satisfaction.

Pain, disappointment and failure are the result of actions which do not promote survival. Dianetics addresses these moments of pain and threat to survival, and it provides a precise technology to increase your ability to survive and live a happier, healthier life.

Dianetic results: http://www.scientology.org/en_US/religion/presentation/pg002.html
When you hear that using Dianetics can enable you to live a better, happier life, it isn't exaggeration. Asked to estimate how it had affected them, users said on a scale of 1 to 10, that Dianetics increased their personal level of happiness from an average of 3.9 on the scale to 7.7.

More to come.:)

[TheLastDon]

Here is a list of top ten things wrong with L. Ron and Scientology.


1. Hubbard was a drug abuser

2. Hubbard was a liar

3. Hubbard was dishonest in his marriage

4. Hubbard was a criminal

5. Scientology uses dirty tricks

6. Scientology has killed

7. Scientology is a rip off

8. Scientology is anti-psychiatry

9. Scientology is un-scientific

10. Scientology is a secret organization


Taken from this website: http://listverse.com/bizarre/top-10-problems-with-scientology/

A lot more information can be found there.

[DougP]

He was also a science fiction writer.:)

Here's a little on Operating Thetans: http://www.scientologytoday.org/Common/question/pg12.htm
What is Operating Thetan or OT?

Operating Thetan is a spiritual state of being above Clear. Thetan refers to the spiritual being, and operating means here “able to operate without dependency on things.” An Operating Thetan (OT) is able to control matter, energy, space and time rather than being controlled by these things. As a result, an OT is able to be at cause over life.

Basic levels of Scientology help a person deal with his personal relationships and day-to-day problems, to free his attention to address higher aspects of existence. At the level of Operating Thetan, one deals with his own immortality as a spiritual being.

Like any other spiritual level in Scientology, the state of OT is attained by proceeding through a series of gradient steps, each one slightly more advanced than the last. The precise sequence is firmly established and variations from that sequence are unproductive. Thus, it would be fruitless to try to move somebody onto the OT levels before he is ready for them. One may as well demand that a baby run before first learning to crawl and learning to walk. Similarly, in Scientology individuals can only receive the benefits of the counseling that brings one to OT after completion of more basic steps.

At the level of OT, Scientologists study the very advanced materials of L. Ron Hubbard’s researches. According to those who have achieved OT, the spiritual benefits obtained are beyond words.

You are now entering the Twilight Zone

[FDokinawa]

they belive in aliens.. they're off their rockers.

[DougP]

Oh yeah:) It gets better too. Through auditing and studying the teachings of L Ron Hubbard one can achieve higher levels of dynamics. These levels are from 1 to 8. The 8th level "is the urge toward existence as infinity."
This is also identified as the Supreme Being. Thus, this dynamic can be called the infinity, or God, dynamic.
Which brings us to the next part:
Does Scientology have a concept of God?

Most definitely. In Scientology, the concept of God is expressed as the eighth dynamic—the urge toward existence as infinity, as God, or the Supreme Being. As the eighth dynamic, Scientology’s concept of God rests at the very apex of universal survival.

In his book Science of Survival, L. Ron Hubbard wrote: “No culture in the history of the world, save the thoroughly depraved and expiring ones, has failed to affirm the existence of a Supreme Being. It is an empirical observation that men without a strong and lasting faith in a Supreme Being are less capable, less ethical, and less valuable to themselves and society .... A man without an abiding faith is, by observation alone, more of a thing than a man.”

Unlike religions with Judeo-Christian origins, the Church of Scientology has no set dogma concerning God that it imposes on its members. As with all its beliefs, Scientology does not ask individuals to believe anything on faith. Rather, as one’s level of spiritual awareness increases through participation in auditing and training, he attains his own certainty of every dynamic and, as he moves from the seventh (spiritual) dynamic to the eighth, will come to his own conclusions concerning the nature of God (or the Supreme Being or infinity) and his relationship to it.

Scientology seeks to bring one to a new level of spiritual awareness where he can reach his own conclusions concerning the nature of God and what lies in store for him after his present lifetime. Thus, like many Eastern religions, salvation in Scientology is attained through personal spiritual growth and enlightenment.

So I guess if you can reach a high enough level you can live for ever, bend space and time and become a God... interesting.

[Asshat]

Many of L Ron's "attributes" could be attributed to me. ha! I always knew I could start a religeon!

[swindland]

The very first time i've ever heard of scientology is of tom cruise. I did a little bit of research but not too much. I did notice that there are lots of rich people that are scientologist. as far as it being a real religion..i'm not too sure. but will smith thinks it has a lot of similitary with the christian religion. I saw that interview online and he was talking about it.

when i was station in california i went crusing around the LA area and the scientologist church is freakinggggggggg hugeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee and it was nice though and it was gated. i wanted to go in there just to get more information about the religion but my friends didn't want. LOL. i'm like oh well. :ohmy:

[swindland]

they belive in aliens.. they're off their rockers.


maybe they are aliens. remember men in black were a lot of celebrities are aliens LOL...:w00t:

[TheLastDon]

Many of L Ron's "attributes" could be attributed to me. ha! I always knew I could start a religeon!

Church of Uminchutology:D:thumbup1:

[Go-Shay]

Church of Uminchutology:D:thumbup1:

Sounds great, what time are the services?:w00t:

[DougP]

Another great video
YouTube - Scientology Crazy Followers

[DougP]

YouTube - Scientology: Rolling Stone Article

[P_chan]

These people are nuts

[mikersoft]

Here's the latest Tom Cruise nuttiness.

http://gawker.com/5002269/the-cruise-indoctrination-video-scientology-tried-to-suppress

He blabs about Scientology for about 10 minutes, without really saying much at all. :rolleyes:

-Mike

[Go-Shay]

its the damn aliens. How do supposedly intelligent people believe this crap? at the very least Christianity has some level of plausibility

[retributionnk]

A friend sent me the link to that clip earlier this morning. All I could say was
'Wow'. It was amazingly stupid! All his talk about the SPs, and reading KSW (Keep Scientology Working) made me want to slap him. What a holier-than-thou asshole!

[macker]

Here is a list of top ten things wrong with L. Ron and Scientology.


Quote:
1. Hubbard was a drug abuser

2. Hubbard was a liar

3. Hubbard was dishonest in his marriage

4. Hubbard was a criminal

5. Scientology uses dirty tricks

6. Scientology has killed

7. Scientology is a rip off

8. Scientology is anti-psychiatry

9. Scientology is un-scientific

10. Scientology is a secret organization

Taken from this website: http://listverse.com/bizarre/top-10-problems-with-scientology/

A lot more information can be found there.

The LastDon....

MMM.. A few of these apply to Catholicism!!!

I am a catholic... I have a right to say that!!:w00t:

[swindland]

Here's the latest Tom Cruise nuttiness.

http://gawker.com/5002269/the-cruise-indoctrination-video-scientology-tried-to-suppress

He blabs about Scientology for about 10 minutes, without really saying much at all. :rolleyes:

-Mike


I watched the video and a lot of the things he says are repetitive. I'll just stick to watching his movies rather than hearing talk about scientology..

[The_Zach2681]

If scientology want's to recruit members, and make money, they should just incorporate with "Hooter's".

[retributionnk]

If scientology want's to recruit members, and make money, they should just incorporate with "Hooter's".

I bet all that bullshit would make the wings taste bad. :thumbdown:

[P_chan]

I didn't know hooters wings tasted good in the first place.

I prefer buffalo wild wings. I love their BBQ sauce!

[Bones]

As posted by P_chan:

I didn't know hooters wings tasted good in the first place.

That's why the girls are there.:D

NBTP

[Go-Shay]

Anonymous also encouraged members to harass the church with phone calls, send so-called "black faxes" to use up ink and use a method called "Google bombing," where the word "Scientology" is linked to other terms such as "dangerous" and "cult" so that people entering the search term "scientology" get skewed results

Hackers declare war (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,325586,00.html)

[texabella]

OK, party people, here are a few tips for you:

-- Scientology is absolutely a cult
-- They have killed people-- go here to read about it (http://www.whyaretheydead.net/)
-- They are responsible for [the single biggest
infiltration of the U.S. government in
history; called "Operation Snow White";
read about it here
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White)
-- Read-up on what they did to Paulette Cooper-- an
author in the 1970s who wrote an exposé on them--
called "Operation Freakout"-- which included getting
her prosecuted for terrorism
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freakout).
-- They cut-off their members from "suppressive"
people, i.e., people in the members' families who
are against the Co$ in any way.
-- L. Ron. Hubbard was the founder, head, and 'god' of
their church. Read about his dabblings in satanism,
sexual perversity, and drive to make lots of money
(heading-up a religion being the surest way, in his
words to many people) here
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Ron_Hubbard)
-- Want to know the truth? Turn on your sound and
go to
(http://theunfunnytruth.ytmnd.com/)

All of this is documented in the U.S. court systems and other government documents.

There's nothing benign, or religious, about this group.

Sorry to be so link-happy, but this is a group that really is dangerous. No one should be on the fence about this.

[swindland]

I wonder what would happen to Tom Cruise if he tried to get out of scientology:rolleyes:

[kombu_kid]

....and then come out against it?!! Maybe a little "accident".....or "suicide"?
It will be fun to see if he ever does.

[texabella]

I honestly think the Co$ is the reason that Nicole Kidman doesn't have full custody of their children-- they live with Cruise and attend a Co$ school. I suspect they did some rotten blackmailing to keep her away.

[A'Sharad]

Well things petered out here so let crank them back up. Each day Ill update something else I have found about this wonderfully rich and enlightening religion......excuse me a sec.....*barfs in trash can*. Sorry...I want to hear what everyone thinks about the cyberwar launched by ANONYMOUS!!

[A'Sharad]

CLEARWATER - Shawn Lonsdale, whose one-man crusade against Scientology made him a public enemy of the church, was found dead at his home over the weekend in an apparent suicide. He was 39.

Police discovered Lonsdale's body at 12:20 p.m. Saturday after neighbors reported a foul odor. They found a garden hose stretched from the exhaust pipe of Lonsdale's car into a window of his home at 510 N Lincoln Ave., according to Clearwater police spokeswoman Elizabeth Daly-Watts. rest here http://www.sptimes.com/2008/02/19/Northpinellas/Scourge_of_Scientolog.shtml

[A'Sharad]

CLEARWATER - Shawn Lonsdale, whose one-man crusade against Scientology made him a public enemy of the church, was found dead at his home over the weekend in an apparent suicide. He was 39.

Police discovered Lonsdale's body at 12:20 p.m. Saturday after neighbors reported a foul odor. They found a garden hose stretched from the exhaust pipe of Lonsdale's car into a window of his home at 510 N Lincoln Ave., according to Clearwater police spokeswoman Elizabeth Daly-Watts. rest here http://www.sptimes.com/2008/02/19/Northpinellas/Scourge_of_Scientolog.shtml

There was no sign of foul play, said Clearwater police spokeswoman Elizabeth Daly-Watts.

Interesting that she would be the police spokeswoman would be Elizabeth Daly-Watts considering she's a scientologist herself. A quick search of Google will follow that up.

Somethings fishy here

[TheNoNamedOne]

Are you suggesting religionists are killing others, C2?

Seems to be a common theme and not so novel amongst them. I would bet that Scientology is way behind on the number of killings compared to other religions. Perhaps we should let them catch up before being too hard on them.

[proudtobnotpc]

There was no sign of foul play, said Clearwater police spokeswoman Elizabeth Daly-Watts.

Interesting that she would be the police spokeswoman would be Elizabeth Daly-Watts considering she's a scientologist herself. A quick search of Google will follow that up.

Somethings fishy here
all organized religion is a scam:cursing:

[A'Sharad]

Are you suggesting religionists are killing others, C2?

Seems to be a common theme and not so novel amongst them. I would bet that Scientology is way behind on the number of killings compared to other religions. Perhaps we should let them catch up before being too hard on them.

I have issues with them killing and then taking everything the person owned..

Catholics, Baptists and Muslims have been killing each other off for religion for centuries. Scientologists do it for the money.

[TheNoNamedOne]

I have issues with them killing and then taking everything the person owned..

Catholics, Baptists and Muslims have been killing each other off for religion for centuries. Scientologists do it for the money.

I bet you can find a lot of Inca and Aztec gold and silver throughout Rome and European churches. And a lot of Indians were killed in the process of having that acquired.

[GODH8SU]

Let me know what your take on this is. Is it a real religion? Is it legitimate? Does it offer the truth? Is it pure hog wash? Or could Scientology be one of L Ron Hubbard's greatest pulp fiction creations ever? Perhaps his final masterpiece.

About as "REAL" as Mormon. Just another made up religion by some wack job!

[AFuel567]

[QUOTE=DougP;45314]Well we members of JU certainly do discuss Christianity and Atheism enough.:D
Haven't really discussed this one yet though. Scientology. A religion started by science fiction novelist L Ron Hubbard. In mid-1952, Hubbard expanded Dianetics into an "applied religious philosophy" which he called Scientology.
Lots of mystery surrounds this religion that is often considered a cult in some areas. Germany for one, is try to ban Scientology from its country claiming it is in violation of their constitution. Heres a couple oof vids to go along with this OP.

Let me know what your take on this is. Is it a real religion? Is it legitimate? Does it offer the truth? Is it pure hog wash? Or could Scientology be one of L Ron Hubbard's greatest pulp fiction creations ever? Perhaps his final masterpiece.


Its a cult based on an exceedingly boring book. Those people are wack jobs. I like South Parks take on it after Issac Hayes left the show.

[DougP]

About as "REAL" as Mormon. Just another made up religion by some wack job!

Well, God would know.:first::D:thumbup:

[afansi]

Nothing personal but ...

I think it's a bit unfair to single out one particular bunch of religious nutters and try to pretend they have a monopoly on crazy religious beliefs.

Fantasists of all kinds on this forum will believe whatever suits them and deny the absolutely obvious when it comes to what's actually going on in the world.

When they go to their fundamentalist meathead church they'll swallow the Adam and Eve story and then condemn incest.

Also I find the story that Mary got knocked up by the one and only God less than convincing, and more than a bit hypocritical.

[A'Sharad]

Church of Scientology warns Wikileaks

Wikinews has learned that The Church of Scientology has warned the documents leaking site Wikileaks.org that they are in violation of United States copyright laws after they published several documents related to the Church. Wikileaks has no intentions of complying, and states that in response, they intend to publish thousands of Scientology documents next week.

Rest found here: http://studentpa.info/spip.php?article577

[A'Sharad]

Church of Scientology warns Wikileaks

Wikinews has learned that The Church of Scientology has warned the documents leaking site Wikileaks.org that they are in violation of United States copyright laws after they published several documents related to the Church. Wikileaks has no intentions of complying, and states that in response, they intend to publish thousands of Scientology documents next week.

Rest found here: http://studentpa.info/spip.php?article577

Havent seen many cases of churches trying to have the bible or Koran(sp) removed from the internet.

[Asshat]

When they go to their fundamentalist meathead church they'll swallow the Adam and Eve story and then condemn incest.


Or shout "right to life" at abortion clinics and say "an eye for an eye" at a public execution.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Also I find the story that Mary got knocked up by the one and only God less than convincing, and more than a bit hypocritical.

Very unconvincing -- and ripe for satire. We've discussed it here (http://www.japanupdate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2713&highlight=whore).

[A'Sharad]

OK folks focus here. Lets discuss the issue...which is SCIENTOLOGY.

[A'Sharad]

"A circuit court judge has denied the Church of Scientology's second request for an injunction against protests by the internet group "Anonymous." The Church sought to prevent Anonymous from protesting on the birthday of the Church's leader, the late Ron L. Hubbard. The petition filed by the Church listed twenty-six individuals allegedly affiliated with Anonymous, but "accidentally" included others who merely work near the location of the first protests held in February and did not participate in them, such as a Starbucks employee. Furthermore, the Church failed to show that any of those listed actually committed any wrongdoing."

rest here: http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/civil/article416511.ece