Using Quotation Marks or the Quote Option [Archive]

ja_Patriot

11-27-2007, 08:26 PM

In the midst of a heated but calm debate I get this post from The Prosecutor:

"...Ja_patriot, I will come back to address this post soon. But at the moment, I am asking you as a moderator to use the forum quote feature when you quote posts from now. If you look at the top of the dialogue box you are writing in as you create your post reply, you will see something like a comic book bubble for speaking. That is the quote feature. Use that to put the html tags around the portions of a text you are quoting..."

Does it really matter? Using quotation marks is commonly accepted usage. The quote option is there of course for convenience in referring to full quotes.

This type of immaturity is certainly not needed in these forums.

Here's a link to the post:

http://www.japanupdate.com/forum/showpost.php?p=37966&postcount=77

Perhaps The Prosecutor wanted to sidestep the real question in that post as addressed him:

"Question: Does this mean that all those ideas about Animal Rights, among others which you so strongly advocate are just foggy reverie which "...can stand on their own merit without their progenitor coddling them with his own action ...?"

Here's a request: Next time please just tell us up front whether it's an idea which you believe in and which you will champion both in words and deeds, - or not." - ja_Patriot

Fonze

11-27-2007, 08:28 PM

so let me see if i understand ja. You qouted the whole thing and highlighted the part you were making the point on?

DoctorP

11-27-2007, 08:33 PM

I think it is pretty clear what was asked of you. It doesn't take that much effort on your part to comply...please do so!

TheNoNamedOne

11-27-2007, 08:35 PM

This type of immaturity is certainly not needed in these forums.

First off, watch how you refer to the moderating team. Just because I ask you to do something does not entail that you need to view it as an issue of maturity or immaturity. Your whole thread question can stand without this.

There are a few reasons we want you to use the vbulltetin feature of quote formatting:

1. It is easier to discern as a quote to another member here on the forum.

2. When you quote someone properly it also has a very convenient link button at the top to the original post it was taken from.

3. By quoting the way you do, you are garnering credit points. In the quote boxes credit points are not garnered. So, in effect, your credits are like counterfeit credits off of others' works. Now, you may not be a gamer and credits may not matter to you, but you or others could decide to get credits that way.

ja_Patriot

11-27-2007, 08:36 PM

so let me see if i understand ja. You qouted the whole thing and highlighted the part you were making the point on?

Instead of using the quote as displayed above, I posted this way:

Fonze posted: "so let me see if i understand ja. You qouted the whole thing and highlighted the part you were making the point on?"

I use this when I want to pick out sentences and not the whole post.

It's no big deal really, but why bring it out in the middle of a debate?

TheNoNamedOne

11-27-2007, 08:40 PM

You can still use the quote formatting function for picking out individual sentences without quoting the whole post. You just have to use that bubble box to wrap around that part that you want.

From time to time a moderator has to come into the middle of a debate/discussion with a message. A short message as a request is no problem. If you have a problem with that request then you should make your second post directly down in the Forum Issue section by creating a thread to discuss it, rather than posting to that request in the thread. Please note that for future reference. Thank you.

Fonze

11-27-2007, 08:40 PM

oh i see. i usually just highlight the part then copy then when im writing the thing i hit quote and paste it. I do see what you are saying and think your first thought is probably more on target than the complaint against you.

ryukyuboi

11-27-2007, 08:58 PM

Is there a help feature located somewhere on this site to guide users in using features available on the site?

I have used regular quotation marks when I have wished to quote some or all words from a previous poster. I did so not because I was trying to earn credits, but it was the only way I knew how.

Muku

11-27-2007, 08:58 PM

First off, watch how you refer to the moderating team.
Umm unless we are all blind here he was not refering to the moderating "team" he was talking to one individual.

Here's the problem now, as I pointed out before on a number of occasions, you hide behind the moderator hat when something comes at you directly.

If you are going to make a comment as a moderator do it, stating that you are a moderator, otherwise you will be seen as a regular member. Use your red box to make your point, otherwise things are fair game.

JA it just makes it easier to discern between what is quoted material and what isnt. Another thing that should be pointed out here is that there is another poster here that often uses quoted material but does not use the quotation marks either, to me that shows inequality or inbalance in the moderating.

Case in point.....

http://www.japanupdate.com/forum/showpost.php?p=37672&postcount=48

This poster often gets away without using the quotation marks in his posts and his posts are frequently responded to by TP, so where is the balance TP? You critisize one but leave the other alone?:rolleyes:

That is constructive critisism.

TheNoNamedOne

11-27-2007, 09:01 PM

There is a faq/help in the menu at the top. If you do not see that info there, like a tutor, then I would suggest creating a test thread for you to play around with the different features down in the Forum Issues Feedback area.

ja_Patriot

11-27-2007, 09:06 PM

You can still use the quote formatting function for picking out individual sentences without quoting the whole post. You just have to use that bubble box to wrap around that part that you want.

You mean like this? It's not as effective as using this format does not show the orig. poster's ID when picking out partial posts.

May I respectfully suggest that you revisit this feature. There are posters here who do try to make this forum a sensible place as well.

TheNoNamedOne

11-27-2007, 09:08 PM

Case in point.....

http://www.japanupdate.com/forum/showpost.php?p=37672&postcount=48

This poster often gets away without using the quotation marks in his posts and his posts are frequently responded to by TP, so where is the balance TP? You critisize one but leave the other alone?:rolleyes:

That is constructive critisism.

Ian, too, should begin using quote formatting. Thing is, Ian's larger fonts and colors for some reason just made it so I didn't really notice it so much because it was quite easier to read and discern. Though, like I said, he, too, should use the quote feature from now on. If he doesn't and I come across it, I will tell him to do so.

TheNoNamedOne

11-27-2007, 09:11 PM

You mean like this? It's not as effective as using this format does not show the orig. poster's ID when picking out partial posts.

All you have to do is add a "=name" In the first quote bracket to do so. Look:

I am going to attack Iran next.

P_chan

11-27-2007, 09:14 PM

Ian, too, should begin using quote formatting. Thing is, Ian's larger fonts and colors for some reason just made it so I didn't really notice it so much because it was quite easier to read and discern. Though, like I said, he, too, should use the quote feature from now on. If he doesn't and I come across it, I will tell him to do so.

Just wanted to jump in here an say this. You say it was "easier" because of all of Ian's pretty colored fonts? Well Ja usually italicizes what he is quoting and puts "random user said:" before what the person said. I found it very easy to tell what he was quoting, and what he was saying himself.

Fonze

11-27-2007, 09:19 PM

The smarter ones know the tactics of others on this forum. Like i've said before for someone so detailed how can he miss the obvious. Answer, he doesn't.

TheNoNamedOne

11-27-2007, 09:19 PM

Umm unless we are all blind here he was not refering to the moderating "team" he was talking to one individual.

Here's the problem now, as I pointed out before on a number of occasions, you hide behind the moderator hat when something comes at you directly.

If you are going to make a comment as a moderator do it, stating that you are a moderator, otherwise you will be seen as a regular member. Use your red box to make your point, otherwise things are fair game.

I clearly did so as a moderator to Ja and this whole thread was created by Ja as my moderating request. Someone sure is blind.

As for talking to me individually, when doing so as to a moderating point, then it is as if he is speaking to the whole team. This has already been discussed.

DoctorP

11-27-2007, 09:21 PM

This type of immaturity is certainly not needed in these forums.

Neither is your immaturity to open a thread and discuss this in front of everyone when you could have simply discussed this in a PM with TP.

Here's a link to the post:

http://www.japanupdate.com/forum/showpost.php?p=37966&postcount=77

Perhaps The Prosecutor wanted to sidestep the real question in that post as addressed him:

"Question: Does this mean that all those ideas about Animal Rights, among others which you so strongly advocate are just foggy reverie which "...can stand on their own merit without their progenitor coddling them with his own action ...?"

Here's a request: Next time please just tell us up front whether it's an idea which you believe in and which you will champion both in words and deeds, - or not." - ja_Patriot

It is also immature for you to bring the other thread into question here. Keep the threads from mingling!

Add to that, now you have Muku jumping on the bandwagon...enough is enough! What do I have to do...put you guys in a corner?

Please review the following rules:

#1 Feel free to discuss anything you wish. Just keep it civil. If you are unable to have a polite discussion on the topic at hand, stay out of that topic.

#2 Do not engage in a personal attack. Insults do occasionally happen in heated discussion. Avoid stooping to that level. However, there is a definite line between an insult and a personal attack. DO NOT cross that line.

#3 Do not start a flame war on our forums. If you have a problem with a member of our forums, either take it to private messages or contact one of the moderators or administrators.

#15 If a moderator or administrator asks you to do something, do it. Moderators are here to help keep the forums civilized. If you have a serious problem with a moderator, contact the administrator (dk). "I don't like him" does not constitute a serious problem. Do not waste dk's time.

#16 Do not waste dk's time.

Muku...indirectly calling someone an ASS is an insult...do not continue!

ja_Patriot

11-27-2007, 09:23 PM

Though, like I said, he, too, should use the quote feature from now on. If he doesn't and I come across it, I will tell him to do so.

Well, you did come across his posts, so why not send him the same message you sent me?

You know why not? Because he's allied with you in most matters.

Allow me to re-suggest some sub-rules for moderators as they should exist in forums:

"Moderators should take it upon themselves not to moderate any discussion or topic they're involved in to avoid conflict of interest and bias.

Moderators are expected to stay out of all contentious debates, or at least to use alternate accounts to engage in them unbeknownst to common members.

Moderators may participate just as any normal member, provided they remain civil and generally obey the site rules."

Thank you for your attention.

Fonze

11-27-2007, 09:28 PM

I clearly did so as a moderator to Ja and this whole thread was created by Ja as my moderating request. Someone sure is blind.

I hope you also didn't miss this DocP when TP referred to Muku. Or is this the mod oonly one way street.

ja_Patriot

11-27-2007, 09:29 PM

Neither is your immaturity to open a thread and discuss this in front of everyone when you could have simply discussed this in a PM with TP.

Well, with all due respect, a post was addressed to me in public. TP could have posted "Ja, pls look in your PM." and I would have replied to him in a PM.

I think he definitely should take it upon himself not to moderate any discussion or topic he's involved in to avoid conflict of interest and bias.

DoctorP

11-27-2007, 09:31 PM

As a moderator he should correct you in public to keep others from doing the same thing.

Fonze

11-27-2007, 09:31 PM

Well, you did come across his posts, so why not send him the same message you sent me?

You know why not? Because he's allied with you in most matters.

Allow me to re-suggest some sub-rules for moderators as they should exist in forums:

"Moderators should take it upon themselves not to moderate any discussion or topic they're involved in to avoid conflict of interest and bias.

Moderators are expected to stay out of all contentious debates, or at least to use alternate accounts to engage in them unbeknownst to common members.

Moderators may participate just as any normal member, provided they remain civil and generally obey the site rules."

Thank you for your attention.

I think these are very good points ja:thumbup1:

DoctorP

11-27-2007, 09:32 PM

I hope you also didn't miss this DocP when TP referred to Muku. Or is this the mod oonly one way street.

I didn't miss it...are you offended if I call you blind? I doubt it unless you are an umpire. I do think you would not appreciate being called an ASS!

TheNoNamedOne

11-27-2007, 09:37 PM

Well, you did come across his posts, so why not send him the same message you sent me?

You know why not? Because he's allied with you in most matters.

Ian and I disagree on two major points that we usually have discussed between ourselves. 1. Religion, and 2. Human species as cancer/overpopulation

You, Ja_patriot, merely mistake the civil tone of discourse we are able to hold between us as an alliance. That mistake is yours.

I did not send him a message as I honestly explained because for me his didn't catch my attention as much as yours and I think as it relays to th the threads I follow, I have seen you do it more often. Now, had his caught my attention more than yours with a level of difficulty discerning quotes like I find with yours, then I would have mentioned it to him first.

Fonze

11-27-2007, 09:41 PM

I didn't miss it...are you offended if I call you blind? I doubt it unless you are an umpire. I do think you would not appreciate being called an ASS!

just making a statement and if he was offended i dont think you'd give a shit and use your line that if we didn't like it we dont have to be here thats it just a staement.

P_chan

11-27-2007, 09:41 PM

Damn, I really don't want to add fuel to the fire but I can't sit by after this was said.

Muku...indirectly calling someone an ASS is an insult...do not continue!

I've been indirectly called stupid and illiterate by a mod on this forum before, and it wasn't considered an insult.

Fonze

11-27-2007, 09:45 PM

Damn, I really don't want to add fuel to the fire but I can't sit by after this was said.

I've been indirectly called stupid and illiterate by a mod on this forum before, and it wasn't considered an insult.

Pchan its a one way street for some mods.:thumbdown:

11-27-2007, 10:07 PM

Ok, I just woke up from a nap, and I won't have time to review this thread, but for what it's worth, TP brought up the point to me about Ja's quoting several hours before he made mention of it to Ja today. I may have missed something as I haven't seen TP's delivery of the message, but TP brought it up to me in the admin/mod forum that he'd likely be making a request to Ja to use the quote feature rather than doublequotes as they enhance readability.

In the grand scheme of things, that's the story. However, somewhere along the lines, maybe in TP's posting, maybe in Ja's reading--I don't know, and I don't have time to review a bunch of posts right now--something got messed up and now we have one person offended and a bunch of other people jumping in throwing their two cents around.

Here's the facts as far as I see them, and then I'm going to go do something else...

Using the built in quote feature enhances readability and makes it a lot easier to distinguish who said what.
Not using the built in quotes feature gives you credits for text you are quoting and decreases readability.
It's not currently against the rules to use Ja's double-quote method of quoting people.
It will increase the radability of anyone's posts to use the built in quote feature vs. using doublequotes.Hope that was simple enough. I'm really not meaning to offend. I really doubt TP was meaning to offend. I really don't see this as a big deal, it's just one of those things that needs to be dealt with.

And as far as that big badass red admin/mod message you guys are starting to see more regularly these days, I imagine it is a little obnoxious. If I think it's obnoxious, you guys probably think it's downright awful. I'm going to dink around with it a bit to see if I can find a way to look slightly less obnoxious while remaining as official in appearance as it is right now.

Make love, not war. Kumbaya my lord. Kumbaya.

ja_Patriot

11-27-2007, 10:22 PM

As a moderator he should correct you in public to keep others from doing the same thing.

What thing? Using "quotes"? Are you kidding?

DoctorP

11-27-2007, 10:24 PM

was I laughing?

11-27-2007, 10:25 PM

I don't think "using quotes" is the problem. It's more when a person uses quotes to quote a big block of text. Like if I were to do this in the middle of my post.

"In the grand scheme of things, that's the story. However, somewhere along the lines, maybe in TP's posting, maybe in Ja's reading--I don't know, and I don't have time to review a bunch of posts right now--something got messed up and now we have one person offended and a bunch of other people jumping in throwing their two cents around."

Followed by more of my relevant words in this post.

The top usage of quotes is perfactly acceptable. The second usage isn't against the rules, but it'd make your posts far more readable to do this instead:

In the grand scheme of things, that's the story. However, somewhere along the lines, maybe in TP's posting, maybe in Ja's reading--I don't know, and I don't have time to review a bunch of posts right now--something got messed up and now we have one person offended and a bunch of other people jumping in throwing their two cents around.

11-27-2007, 10:26 PM

Please stay on track. We don't need another pissing match... Lets get this done and over with. Any further questions? Anyone else have any questions about any of the other features on the forum?...

P_chan

11-27-2007, 10:29 PM

Please stay on track. We don't need another pissing match... Lets get this done and over with. Any further questions? Anyone else have any questions about any of the other features on the forum?...

Do you think maybe we could have some type of JU pissing match someday? Maybe at the next JU meet? See who can produce the most and/or piss the farthest:D

11-27-2007, 10:32 PM

You betcha!

I know you're tempted (as am I) to go ahead and derail this thread into oblivion, but lets fight the urge. I don't think it's reached that point just yet. :D It's still on topic. We can't do that until it's veered off course at least three or four times.

ja_Patriot

11-27-2007, 10:33 PM

Ian and I disagree on two major points that we usually have discussed between ourselves. 1. Religion, and 2. Human species as cancer/overpopulation

You, Ja_patriot, merely mistake the civil tone of discourse we are able to hold between us as an alliance. That mistake is yours.

I did not send him a message as I honestly explained because for me his didn't catch my attention as much as yours and I think as it relays to th the threads I follow, I have seen you do it more often. Now, had his caught my attention more than yours with a level of difficulty discerning quotes like I find with yours, then I would have mentioned it to him first.

That is lame. If I were posting to support your views you would have given me a lot of slack and leeway.

At the very least, you could have requested me to color code quotes in addition to being within "quotation marks" and being italized and bold for highlights.

Here's a suggestion:

It is noticeable that when the kitchen gets hot, you suddenly are a "team" with DocP and dk, who are well respected here.

So, why don't you take it upon yourself to ask other members of the "team" to moderate any discussion or topic you're involved in to avoid conflict of interest and bias.

Of course you can step in against obscenity and vulgarity anytime. We posters have also taken it upon ourselves to keep these forums clean.

P_chan

11-27-2007, 10:35 PM

Sorry, I apologize! I just wanted to possibly calm some people down and keep them from killing each other:D

TheLastDon

11-27-2007, 10:36 PM

Come on guys how hard is it to use the quote button or the muti quote button.

11-27-2007, 10:38 PM

So, why don't you take it upon yourself to ask other members of the "team", and not take it upon yourself, to moderate any discussion or topic you're involved in to avoid conflict of interest and bias.

Of course you can step in against obscenity and vulgarity anytime. We posters have also taken it upon ourselves to keep these forums clean.
He actually does. We share duties whenever we can, but with the way things are, TP is online a lot more often than myself or DocP are (most days). If something needs to be moderated and neither of us are online, it falls upon TP. But we actually do try to share the moderation duties to avoid any potential blowups. We don't bend over backwards, but we do what we can most days.

You posters have done an excellent job of moderating yourselves in terms of vulgarity, etc.

11-27-2007, 10:39 PM

Come on guys how hard is it to use the quote button or the muti quote button.
No kidding. That's what I'm saying. It's about this hard... It turns into habit.

11-27-2007, 10:41 PM

And Ja, I understand your use of doublequotes for quoting people. On forums where we don't have the quote feature, I'm stuck doing the same exact thing. I don't heavily frown upon it as I can completely understand why someone would do it. All I'm saying is that our quote feature on vbulletin makes things a lot easier for everyone.

OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand

11-27-2007, 10:42 PM

It is noticeable that when the kitchen gets hot, you suddenly are a "team" with DocP and dk, who are well respected here.

I think the admin/mod bunch was always a team. The other mod and admin joined TP to support him in this thread. TP did not change his position, he was backed-up by the others.

11-27-2007, 10:46 PM

I think the admin/mod bunch was always a team. The other mod and admin joined TP to support him in this thread. TP did not change his position, he was backed-up by the others.
Yes. I gave my go ahead to make mention about the doublequotes thing to TP this afternoon while I was at work. Like ten hours ago. So he's always had my support. I just don't understand how it led to a blowup, but then again, this place is a powder keg sometimes.

TheLastDon

11-27-2007, 10:46 PM

Fonze

11-27-2007, 10:47 PM

You posters have done an excellent job of moderating yourselves in terms of vulgarity, etc.

I will try to get us back to the former glory of vulgarity dk.

ja_Patriot

11-27-2007, 10:47 PM

I don't think "using quotes" is the problem. It's more when a person uses quotes to quote a big block of text. Like if I were to do this in the middle of my post.

"In the grand scheme of things, that's the story. However, somewhere along the lines, maybe in TP's posting, maybe in Ja's reading--I don't know, and I don't have time to review a bunch of posts right now--something got messed up and now we have one person offended and a bunch of other people jumping in throwing their two cents around."

Followed by more of my relevant words in this post.

The top usage of quotes is perfactly acceptable. The second usage isn't against the rules, but it'd make your posts far more readable to do this instead:

dk,

Here's an example of the way I quote in my posts:

dk posted: "...In the grand scheme of things, that's the story. However, somewhere along the lines, maybe in TP's posting, maybe in Ja's reading--I don't know..."

Within quotation marks, in italics, with highlights in bold. Do you see anything wrong?

I'll use the quote feature no problem.

The top usage of quotes is perfactly acceptable. The second usage isn't against the rules, but it'd make your posts far more readable to do this instead:

However, using this feature the ID of the orig poster for a partial quote isn't carried over.

I guess it's not a big deal but the ID of the op is important. I will color code in future if I use quotation marks.

Fonze

11-27-2007, 10:49 PM

Plus a lot of people gang up on TP as well. Sure he goes against the majority most times but damn give the guy a little respect sometimes. I am a little new here; well not new but I don't have a lot of posts yet but from what I see most people don't agree with him or his ideas.

not rying to bring stuff up but it's not really his ideas but his bias moderating. He has done better lately though:thumbup1:

11-27-2007, 10:49 PM

I am a little new here; well not new but I don't have a lot of posts yet but from what I see most people don't agree with him or his ideas.
I don't think it's so much about this anymore, but that's just me. Maybe it is. I think most of us have grown accustomed to each other by now to the point where issues and agreement on topics really isn't all that big of a deal.

11-27-2007, 10:51 PM

However, using this feature the ID of the orig poster for a partial quote isn't carried over.

I guess it's not a big deal but the ID of the op is important. I will color code in future if I use quotation marks.
This is something I just finally figured out today (from TP's post...).

If you want to put someone's ID in the field, just put their name in the opening quote tag. Like this:

But get rid of that space between dk and ].

Then put text in the middle and close it with a [/quote ] minus the space.

[quote=dk]Quoted text
Wala!

OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand

11-27-2007, 10:52 PM

I'll use the quote feature no problem.

However, using this feature the ID of the orig poster for a partial quote isn't carried over.

I guess it's not a big deal but the ID of the op is important. I will color code in future if I use quotation marks.
Dear god man, how much more tech support do you need?!

Simply use the quote button to quote the OP, then when the "reply to thread" screen comes up with the entire quote, delete the portion of the text you don't want to appear in the quote window. Be sure not to delete the name of the OP. This isn't rocket surgery!!!:rolleyes:

11-27-2007, 10:53 PM

Please try to not be condescending. As frustrating as tech support may be, it's really not that big of an issue.

Fonze

11-27-2007, 10:54 PM

ya thats how i use to do it until i found out i could copy and paste and the qoute box.

OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand

11-27-2007, 10:55 PM

Please try to not be condescending. As frustrating as tech support may be, it's really not that big of an issue.
Sorry! I come from the RTFM school of thought.:cool:

TheNoNamedOne

11-27-2007, 10:59 PM

I am horrible at acronyms. What does RTFM mean?

11-27-2007, 10:59 PM

Sorry! I come from the RTFM school of thought.:cool:
As did I, but I've come to realize that there are those that are good with manuals and others that are better with instruction. This is simple stuff. If someone genuinely needs help understanding how to use something on the forum, I really don't mind spending a little time walking them through it.

11-27-2007, 10:59 PM

I am horrible at acronyms. What does RTFM mean?
Read the ******* manual.

Either that or "redheaded topless foreign midgets". I can't remember.

ja_Patriot

11-27-2007, 11:01 PM

This is something I just finally figured out today (from TP's post...).

If you want to put someone's ID in the field, just put their name in the opening quote tag. Like this:

[quote=dk ]

But get rid of that space between dk and ].

Then put text in the middle and close it with a [/quote ] minus the space.

Wala!

Thanks, dk. We better put an end to it before the pride and epitome of obscurity "RTFM school of thought" gets a heart attack.

11-27-2007, 11:02 PM

Ok, lol. So are we clear? Can I lock this thread now? Anyone else have any further questions? I wouldn't mind locking this thread at least for a while just to make sure no other outbreaks happen in here.

OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand

11-27-2007, 11:04 PM

As did I, but I've come to realize that there are those that are good with manuals and others that are better with instruction. This is simple stuff. If someone genuinely needs help understanding how to use something on the forum, I really don't mind spending a little time walking them through it.
I agree to a point, but think there is at least one more category - those that are purposefully stubborn. Fodder for another day...:)

TheLastDon

11-27-2007, 11:04 PM

Please try to not be condescending. As frustrating as tech support may be, it's really not that big of an issue.

Really eelecurb no offense but you have been trying to piss people off all day.

Back to TP though, when he suggested that people be charged for saying thanks well at the same time the person being thanked would earn some of the credits. It's like everybody chimed in at once saying how stupid it was. Well TP has never thanked anyone I understood his point of view but DAMN give the guy a break on some stuff.

I am not trying to make enemies here and I enjoy everyones opinion. You all make me laugh and help me relieve stress. DK,TP,DOCP, PCHAN,DougP, FONZE,MH, H&R,JA, ECURB, IAN, MUKE UMI if I left anyone out I'm sorry.

11-27-2007, 11:07 PM

I agree to a point, but think there is at least one more category - those that are purposefully stubborn. Fodder for another day...:)
Yessir, I agree. My dad is a really smart guy, but the funniest thing about him is he just has no ability to learn how to use scanners... Cracks me up because I teach him how to use a scanner every year! This guy has a far more complicated job than this, yet scanners give him a hard time.

But who am I to talk. I'd burn cerial if I tried to make breakfast.