Wealth, cybernetics, slavery

[Isaak Brodsky]

Concerning the wealth we may amass or inherit in this world, it is recorded that “For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also” (Mat 6:21). The more time I spend online checking my portfolio and investments in tech stocks, the less time I spend with Him in prayer learning about how the economic power I possess will invariably pass away.

No time in history than the present has afforded the politically powerful the opportunity to wield so much control over the lives of citizens in most, if not all, industrialized nations. Our personal wealth comes at very high price: the handing over of control to the powers that be. That control is economic autonomy, an ability to live in communities free from the oppressive powers of the political institutions that seek to impose increasingly more rule over our lives.

A brilliant professor of cybernetics and electronic engineering, Dr. Kevin Warwick (http://www.kevinwarwick.com/) has personally proven the reliability of chips working in our own bodies to record all of our economic transactions, to store whatever information necessary to buy and sell in this world. These chips are literally and figuratively keys to our economic future.

Some commentators have observed that these experiments demonstrate how near we are to the prophecy of John: "And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six" (Revelation 13:16-18).

What is your feeling about this prophecy standing in light of these technological advancements?

[ja_Patriot]

Interesting how you allude to the "Mondex" Bio-Chip or smart card and then to the New Testament's Book on Revelations, 13:16-18.

http://www.bbsradio.com/files_byothers/666Chip.pps

The link is a PowerPoint presentation of the so-called 666 chip, "the mark of the devil on everyone's right hand".

Afraid this "chain letter (http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/mondex.html)" spam junk on a micro-chip tied to Revelations has been around since Feb 2004.

No one knows anyone else implanted with a micro-chip except in some imaginative minds.

And if you happen to be independently wealthy, then count your blessings, Ian.

You'd be the least affected by advances in technology and robotics, and any infringement of the government or society in libertarian prerogatives.

[Asshat]

Our personal wealth comes at very high price: the handing over of control to the powers that be. That control is economic autonomy, an ability to live in communities free from the oppressive powers of the political institutions that seek to impose increasingly more rule over our lives.

I do not understand this statement Ian. Obviously one must define wealth, but how is the price exacted? I can think of the tax man of course, but I suppose the determining factor must be how those instruments are kept and how they are administered. The only way to side step the oppressive powers is to live under a bartering system.

Some commentators have observed that these experiments demonstrate how near we are to the prophecy of Revelation 13:16-18.

It is all about control and knowledge, but I don't see any great evil in it. For example, for years, an American has not been able to get a bank savings account without producing a drivers license. No license? No problem, the DMV will also sell you an ID card. We have "never" been able to do anything without a Social Security number.

We have also implanted positioning chips in children.
(Edit) Medical chips.

[DougP]

Some how illegal aliens are able to get a drivers license in Utah without a Social Security card/number.

Another example of the evil over lords keeping us under their thumb is the fact I can't buy beer on Sundays in some places. Can't even drink that beer outside or become "buzzed" in public. And why the hell not? I'm in the land of the free right? If some disgustingly overweight woman with more rolls than a bakery can wear spandex in public why can't I enjoy a cold one?

Oppression!!

[Isaak Brodsky]

I do not understand this statement Ian. Obviously one must define wealth, but how is the price exacted? I can think of the tax man of course, but I suppose the determining factor must be how those instruments are kept and how they are administered. The only way to side step the oppressive powers is to live under a bartering system.



It is all about control and knowledge, but I don't see any great evil in it. For example, for years, an American has not been able to get a bank savings account without producing a drivers license. No license? No problem, the DMV will also sell you an ID card. We have "never" been able to do anything without a Social Security number.

We have also implanted positioning chips in children.
(Edit) Medical chips.


Yeah, I guess my point is slightly cryptic. The very high price I'm talkin' 'bout is not only the physical costs (wear and tear to the body) but the cost to personal freedom. Participating in today's post-industrial economy means that the government controls a great deal more personal information on each of us than what it used to during, say, those eras before Woodrow Wilson's presidency.

The social security number was instituted as a way of accounting for those who would contribute to the retirement trust fund after they were too old to work. If our capitalist economy worked before the institution of the social security, why can it not work now without it? As you know very well, the number has come to be mandated for every citizen, young and old, rich and poor. Without it, no one gets to participate. I am not arguing that numbering people is evil, but people themselves with evil intentions who rule over us can use data such as numbers to do some evil things. Maybe that's the thing I am trying to get at, that it is the potential evil in us, that alerts me to the dangers of numbering and of tracking people. The newest craze in tracking technology we are now seeing unfold before our eyes. This sort of technology poses even more of threat to personal privacy than the social security number, seems to me.

[Asshat]

The very high price I'm talkin' 'bout is not only the physical costs (wear and tear to the body) but the cost to personal freedom.

I wont enter into the discussion from the biblical prophesy standpoint-since I distinctly remember my father having a discussion very much like this about credit cards and the IRS sometime in the late 60's. :)

Our loss of privacy astounds me. We have absolutely none if we participate in any commerce. If we move away, say to Ruby Ridge, Idaho we come under instant scrutiny from the Government.

Our cellphones are already the ultimate and perfect tracking device and everyone of us who carries one turned on is able to be tracked very easily.

There is only one remaining venue for we "1st worlders" to maintain some degree of privacy and that is to remain in foreign countries whose infrastructure is not as well developed, and hopefully friendly enough to the home country for a visa, yet unfriendly enough to keep them at bay.

I have my target countries. All of them have cracked down recently on expats and certain visa and economic issues. Fine with me. I'm on the cusp of never having to work again. I just can't bring the money to the US or put it in a US instrumentality.

Sorry this is so long. BTW, what parent would NOT want to microchip junior?

[Isaak Brodsky]

BTW, what parent would NOT want to microchip junior?


Excellent question!!!! I hope others will weigh in with reasons why they feel microchips further rather than hinder personal security.

[DougP]

No need to microchip your kids when you can ground them :D

[ja_Patriot]

So when would you uninstall the micro-chip? When your kids are old enough to have sex and start their own families?

I say it all comes with the territory. Anyone who values their privacy so much can always live in Burkina Fasso or Timbuktu.

There are still millions of places in the world where even the postman won't find you, wouldn't you agree?

[Asshat]

So when would you uninstall the micro-chip? When your kids are old enough to have sex and start their own families?

I say it all comes with the territory. Anyone who values their privacy so much can always live in Burkina Fasso or Timbuktu.

There are still millions of places in the world where even the postman won't find you, wouldn't you agree?

You don't see a correlation between freedom and privacy I take it.

Why sit back and say "it comes with the territory" as if it's a "price" we must pay to be American? Or is that no what you meant?

[ja_Patriot]

Correlation between freedom and privacy?

Both could be applied mutually and synonymously, as in you can live like a hermit in a cave or any secluded abode with all the privacy you want and free yourself of the constraints of society, including clothing and manners, an existence devoid of wealth, cybernetic and slavery (the OP's premises).

Sure, an "American" may want to chose to live like a hermit. A good example would be Howard Hughes in his final years, although not without money.

For the normal couch potato, tick off your own punch list and define your "territory": Card cards, loans, owning a car, phones, cell phones, the internet, air travel, health insurance, education, etc..

I don't think any of that can be considered exclusively "American" either.

[Asshat]

I don't think the couch was one of the millions of places you were refering to.

Or perhaps more pointedly, why are you here instead of "there" JA? (Rhetorical question)

Some of us who chose to live here (i.e. not "ordered" here by the job) are here because we want to escape some of the cybernetic strangleholds America places upon it's citizens. This is a good place to slip between the cracks.

Your words about debt are very salient though, and perhaps more endemic to American idiological views towards living requirements than you give it credit. Research into American spending and savings habits compared to the rest of the world for example are telling.

True having our own punch lists with our "requirements" is salient, however being in debt for some of the things on the territorial list which invoke debt do result in slavery.

[ja_Patriot]

I don't think the couch was one of the millions of places you were refering to.

Or perhaps more pointedly, why are you here instead of "there" JA? (Rhetorical question)

Some of us who chose to live here (i.e. not "ordered" here by the job) are here because we want to escape some of the cybernetic strangleholds America places upon it's citizens. This is a good place to slip between the cracks.

Your words about debt are very salient though, and perhaps more endemic to American idiological views towards living requirements than you give it credit. Research into American spending and savings habits compared to the rest of the world for example are telling.

True having our own punch lists with our "requirements" is salient, however being in debt for some of the things on the territorial list which invoke debt do result in slavery.


In my post "couch potato" was a metaphor for the common blow Joe.

"...why are you here instead of "there" JA?..."

You completely missed the point then. I'm here period. The OP's concern on invasion of privacy i.e. 666 chips, I already refuted.

Reading between the lines, are you implying that Okinawa would be a good place to "escape" from the clutches of creditors or a bankruptcy? The info is there, but the pursuit would be more expensive if located in a foreign country, so yes, for some that could work.

Suggestion: Although your response is earnest, why not just try to respond to the OP and also simplify your sentence structures. Looks like you're overreaching for some reason and the delivery gets muddled, but it's really your good ideas that count.

[Asshat]

Suggestion: Although your response is earnest, why not just try to respond to the OP and also simplify your sentence structures. Looks like you're overreaching for some reason and the delivery gets muddled, but it's really your good ideas that count.


Don't patronize me ja. I'm not some young punk here with no life experiences. (Unless you think 50 is young)

Your inability to correctly digest what I have to say has no bearing on my ability to entertain original thought.

And that is where we differ. In 90 percent of your posts, you either have your lips locked firmly on Ian's posterior or are quoting another neocon slogan. (Oops, that was a dependant clause)

Take your last pot shot at me ja- I am finished responding to your rote.