Punishment

[TheNoNamedOne]

Do you accept in principle that it is ok to punish the majority for the failure of a few within the group? By punishment I mean either punitive, or restrictions on freedom.

I accept it as ok because I believe civilization is based on this concept. To me the question hinders on to what degree of punishment.

[Boost]

I have a hard time with this do to being in the military and enduring multiple punishments because of someone else’s stupid action. There was nothing like marching in formation on a Saturday morning, somewhere in the time frame of 0530 - 0600, because some yahoo thought it would be a good idea to drive themselves home after a night of drinking. And to be honest, I question whether this method of group punishment really worked being it usually wasn't very long before someone else decided to repeat the same mistake.

So all in all I would say I am not a fan of group punishment vs. directly punishing the individual.

[dk]

I don't see the point of punishing a group instead of the individual UNLESS it is to keep the individual accountable to the group. If by punishing the whole group, it is likely that the group will somehow persuade the deviant one to change from his wicked ways, then by all mean go right ahead. However, with things like base curfews imposed when one person drives drunk, it hardly seems effective to me.

[TheNoNamedOne]

dk and Boost, what about non-punitive punishment, such as control mechanisms institutionalized that lead to punishment in the form of deprivations?

One simple example in the news recently is not being able to take liquids on planes. All are punished for the threat and actions of a few. People are therefore punished through depriving them of their freedom to bring personal belongings onto a plane.

How about punishment in the form of gun laws? Why should I have to wait for the FBI to check my background when I want to purchase that gun RIGHT NOW?

To not accept group punishment and then not institutionalize it could lead to anarchy. For the sake of an orderly society, don't you think group punishment that impose on our freedoms to some degree are necessary? This is what I mean by punishment in the form of deprivations.

btw, one could even say that culturally, Japan is such a cohesive society with low crime rate due to hundreds of years of Daimyo and Samurai holding whole families and villages responsible for the acts of one of their members and then issueing harsh punitive punishment. Didn't that benefit Japan in the long run in shaping its culture, where now they experience much less crime than many other industrialized nations?

[Boost]

For the sake of an orderly society, don't you think group punishment that impose on our freedoms to some degree are necessary? This is what I mean by punishment in the form of deprivations.

I see, and yes, I would agree that group punishments that impose on our freedoms to some degree are necessary. We just need to keep a vigilant eye that those group punishments are reasonable. I have no problems with waiting out an FBI background check to purchase a firearm; there is a clear need for that to be accomplished. I can live with not taking my soda on a plane so long as the flight attendants are good about providing drinks in flight. Just want to make sure the government doesn't become over zealous in taking away freedoms and rights in order to "protect us."