Legislating God into our Lives

[TheNoNamedOne]

Why must we be reminded of an entity that is not proven to be in existence?

The separation of church and state should be just that, and parsimoniously so. But again and again we see religion trying to creep into our lives through legislation. If God exists, then why must we be reminded of it? Why would he not choose to reveal himself to us with a "personal relationship"? I've never had a personal relationship involving love, trust, or respect legislated to me.

Perhaps Christians need that constant reminding for fear that their faith and their own personal relationship will not stand over time without law supporting it.

Look at these funny little movements that have sprung up across the U.S. these last few years in trying to get the "alternative" view of creation into public schools taught within science classes when evolution is taught.

And our money. Our money just was not good enough up until the 1950's. The aesthetics of the design was just lacking something. Somehow legislating "In God We Trust" made us feel better. Now we are reminded of our trusting relationship with superstition in our pockets and with every economic transaction we engage in.

[bokuwa]

;)The country was started with religious beliefs and almost all of the documents written to start the country refer to God or religion. Have you ever read any of them?

I think you are one of the people who want Christmas trees and other decorations like nativity scenes taken down in America, am I right? ;)

[TheNoNamedOne]

I think you are one of the people who want Christmas trees and other decorations like nativity scenes taken down in America, am I right?

Not on private property.

[bokuwa]

Not on private property.

That's what I thought.

[dk]

I'm not too keen on Creationism being taught in schools as it has never had any solid proof whatsoever other than a book that says "here's your proof". They might as well teach every religions' views of the beginning if they're going to teach Creationism. Evolution has not been proven as the reason for life as we know it, but evolution is a far better explanation than "A big being took a clump of mud, made man, pulled out his rib, and woman began."

I don't believe a FULL separation of church and state is required. I do believe that every politician, every teacher, and every random stranger you will ever meet on the street has his own bias and his own reasons, and you cannot expect them to not dominate the choices they make in life. So in that way, you will never have a full separation of Church and state. I do believe that if Christians think they are deserving of special privileges and other religions in America are not, they are wrong. The US is a mixing pot of several races and cultures and as far as inclusion into politics and education, it should be all or nothing. If the Christians cannot cope with that, then they should not be seen as fit for inclusion.

I am not against the Nativity being seen on public property. Whether we agree or not, it IS part of the culture of the United States of America. As I said above though, if Christians are unwilling for other religions' to have their symbols on display in public, then neither should the Christians, but if they can learn to tolerate and play together, then by all means, show your culture.

[Boost]

I do not believe this is any worse then the barrage of those trying to push for legislation that would erase any mention of a God in the United States. I know you have usually hammered on the existence of Bible God, but the mention of God in the Pledge of Allegiance, and the quote "In God we trust" does not specify which particular God it is referring to. So while pledging one nation under God, it could realistically be any God you do believe in.

And on a side note, every one has a God and worships that God. But that sounds like a good topic for another post.

[bokuwa]

I'm not too keen on Creationism being taught in schools as it has never had any solid proof whatsoever other than a book that says "here's your proof". They might as well teach every religions' views of the beginning if they're going to teach Creationism. Evolution has not been proven as the reason for life as we know it, but evolution is a far better explanation than "A big being took a clump of mud, made man, pulled out his rib, and woman began."

I don't believe a FULL separation of church and state is required. I do believe that every politician, every teacher, and every random stranger you will ever meet on the street has his own bias and his own reasons, and you cannot expect them to not dominate the choices they make in life. So in that way, you will never have a full separation of Church and state. I do believe that if Christians think they are deserving of special privileges and other religions in America are not, they are wrong. The US is a mixing pot of several races and cultures and as far as inclusion into politics and education, it should be all or nothing. If the Christians cannot cope with that, then they should not be seen as fit for inclusion.

I am not against the Nativity being seen on public property. Whether we agree or not, it IS part of the culture of the United States of America. As I said above though, if Christians are unwilling for other religions' to have their symbols on display in public, then neither should the Christians, but if they can learn to tolerate and play together, then by all means, show your culture.
************************************************** ********************
America is based on religion and faith, like it or not.
In recent years, depending on how old you are, there has been a dismantling of what America was and how it got started with the documents used to do so. Some people look at this process as progress, getting rid of Christmas decorations in public places, taking prayer out of the schools, re-wording the pledge of allegiance and the list goes on.

From your posts, Dk and TP, it is apparent that you are happy with the changes made and trying to be made in America. Contrary to the documents that helped start the country. When America was starting there were not the type of holidays that people recognize or knew about then.

But as time moved on in America, more and more other religious holidays were and are observed , I think Hanukkah most likely being one of the first or most popularized other than Christianity to start with. In my opinion, fine, well and good. But to tear down the traditions and fabric of America is not.

Taking down decorations at Rockefeller Center because of protests against Christianity being promoted is Non -American, whether you believe in god or not, it’s tradition now more then religious anyway.

The national Anthem;
Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved homes and the war’s desolation,
Blest with vict’ry and peace, may the Heav’n-rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our Trust"
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

You do notice in this heaven, the power and god, right. Just like the many other documents written when America was new and starting, they have these references made in them, like it or not. This is part of the original writing.

And your, DK, “A big being took a clump of mud, made man, pulled out his rib, and woman began."
Can anyone prove it did not happened, beyond any doubt what so ever? I’ll take a step into the unknown and say, what if like the planet of the apes movie, we got it all ass backwards and a power far beyond what we now understand did just that. You have no idea if it did or didn't. You sound like a gambling type, so I'll ask you, what's the odds in being atheist anyway?

DK wrote;
I do believe that if Christians think they are deserving of special privileges and other religions in America are not, they are wrong. ==The reason they think like that is because the way the country was started, it was not started with Judaism ==
The US is a mixing pot of several races and cultures and as far as inclusion into politics and education, it should be all or nothing.==It is slowly changing and getting rid of what the country started with, maybe not fast enough for some, again the country was started under a different set of ideas and way of thinking than today’s world==
If the Christians cannot cope with that, then they should not be seen as fit for inclusion.==Now, now that’s no way to be Wilbur. If Christians took that mind set, you would be climbing the walls and yelling at the top of your lungs, I am pretty sure. Still just a guess.

It will all be changed eventually I think, to a more what? I always think of Roman when I hear these conversations and ideas being discussed. Regarding changing for the better, what do you think the people thought about as they watched Roman burn down?
Boy, I am glad we came to evolved into this. Gradually developed.:rolleyes:

[dk]

From your posts, Dk and TP, it is apparent that you are happy with the changes made and trying to be made in America. Contrary to the documents that helped start the country. When America was starting there were not the type of holidays that people recognize or knew about then.

But as time moved on in America, more and more other religious holidays were and are observed , I think Hanukkah most likely being one of the first or most popularized other than Christianity to start with. In my opinion, fine, well and good. But to tear down the traditions and fabric of America is not.

Taking down decorations at Rockefeller Center because of protests against Christianity being promoted is Non -American, whether you believe in god or not, it’s tradition now more then religious anyway.
Re-read my post. I stated that I have no problem with religious customs being shown in public AS LONG AS the religions are open to OTHER religions doing the same thing. All or nothing. If they cannot be tolerant, then they have no place in modern America.


And your, DK, “A big being took a clump of mud, made man, pulled out his rib, and woman began."
Can anyone prove it did not happened, beyond any doubt what so ever? I’ll take a step into the unknown and say, what if like the planet of the apes movie, we got it all ass backwards and a power far beyond what we now understand did just that. You have no idea if it did or didn't. You sound like a gambling type, so I'll ask you, what's the odds in being atheist anyway?

I don't have to prove that the Genesis according to the bible is incorrect. You can believe whatever you want to believe. But tell me, which of the two is more likely?

An imperfect univers was created by a perfect God. That God became bored of the imperfect universe he created, so he decided to make Man. So he made man, and it was good, because it was naive. God then decided to put man smack dab right in the middle of temptation by dropping a tree of knowledge of good and evil into his personal garden. (How would evil even exist if God was perfect and God created everything?) Then God saw that man was bored and lonely, so he pulled out man's rib and made a woman. Then an evil snake who somehow managed to earn the right to live in God's perfect personal garden tempted Eve. HOW IS ALL THIS IMPERFECTION LIVING IN GOD'S PERFECT GARDEN? You know the rest of the story. Man screws up. Man is fruitful and multiplies. For thousands of years, man kills other men for believing other methods for the genesis of the planet. Yadayada.

or

Things evolve.

Which of the two concepts sounds more like a made up story? Things DO evolve. You might not notice if you're not paying attention, but in all aspects of life, evolution and survival of the fittest makes the rules. Governments evolve. Religions evolve. The software I write evolves. Mindsets evolve. Personal preferences evolve. The world is based on change. All things evolve. So why wouldn't life?

I never said I was an athiest. But I've freed my mind enough to not believe what I was told to believe in Sunday school all my life. Just because you're told something when you're a child doesn't make it true. I am not the gambling type. And Christianity, to me, is not a gamble. I'm tired of that whole "better safe than sorry" reasoning for accepting to believe in an invisible entity just because writers 4000 years ago decided to make him an absolute in a book. What if we're wrong? Then we're wrong. I believe Heaven and Hell are control structures. That's what I believe, and I live my life based on that assumption. Many people need the threat of fire and brimstone to guide their morality. I don't.

It doesn't matter if America was started by Christians, Muslims, Hindus, etc. America is not a big church. It's a government.

You've lost me on the rest of your post. I really don't understand what you're getting at. Rome? What? Every nation falls. That has nothing to do with this topic.

[bokuwa]

Re-read my post. I stated that I have no problem with religious customs being shown in public AS LONG AS the religions are open to OTHER religions doing the same thing. All or nothing. If they cannot be tolerant, then they have no place in modern America.




I don't have to prove that the Genesis according to the bible is incorrect. You can believe whatever you want to believe. But tell me, which of the two is more likely?

An imperfect univers was created by a perfect God. That God became bored of the imperfect universe he created, so he decided to make Man. So he made man, and it was good, because it was naive. God then decided to put man smack dab right in the middle of temptation by dropping a tree of knowledge of good and evil into his personal garden. (How would evil even exist if God was perfect and God created everything?) Then God saw that man was bored and lonely, so he pulled out man's rib and made a woman. Then an evil snake who somehow managed to earn the right to live in God's perfect personal garden tempted Eve. HOW IS ALL THIS IMPERFECTION LIVING IN GOD'S PERFECT GARDEN? You know the rest of the story. Man screws up. Man is fruitful and multiplies. For thousands of years, man kills other men for believing other methods for the genesis of the planet. Yadayada.

or

Things evolve.

Which of the two concepts sounds more like a made up story? Things DO evolve. You might not notice if you're not paying attention, but in all aspects of life, evolution and survival of the fittest makes the rules. Governments evolve. Religions evolve. The software I write evolves. Mindsets evolve. Personal preferences evolve. The world is based on change. All things evolve. So why wouldn't life?

I never said I was an athiest. But I've freed my mind enough to not believe what I was told to believe in Sunday school all my life. Just because you're told something when you're a child doesn't make it true. I am not the gambling type. And Christianity, to me, is not a gamble. I'm tired of that whole "better safe than sorry" reasoning for accepting to believe in an invisible entity just because writers 4000 years ago decided to make him an absolute in a book. What if we're wrong? Then we're wrong. I believe Heaven and Hell are control structures. That's what I believe, and I live my life based on that assumption. Many people need the threat of fire and brimstone to guide their morality. I don't.

It doesn't matter if America was started by Christians, Muslims, Hindus, etc. America is not a big church. It's a government.

You've lost me on the rest of your post. I really don't understand what you're getting at. Rome? What? Every nation falls. That has nothing to do with this topic.

{All or nothing. If they cannot be tolerant, then they have no place in modern America.} Who's modern America? Yours or the majority of America.

{I don't have to prove that the Genesis according to the bible is incorrect. You can believe whatever you want to believe. But tell me, which of the two is more likely?} After you wrote this, you state your case where picking God or whatever, whoever created man, the wrong choice. My mother didn't raise a fool.


{Which of the two concepts sounds more like a made up story? Things DO evolve. You might not notice if you're not paying attention, but in all aspects of life, evolution and survival of the fittest makes the rules. Governments evolve. Religions evolve. The software I write evolves. Mindsets evolve. Personal preferences evolve. The world is based on change. All things evolve. So why wouldn't life?} So what is your point here? All change is good? I don't happen to believe that, along with a few others in the world.

{ never said I was an athiest. But I've freed my mind enough to not believe what I was told to believe in Sunday school all my life. Just because you're told something when you're a child doesn't make it true. I am not the gambling type. And Christianity, to me, is not a gamble. I'm tired of that whole "better safe than sorry" reasoning for accepting to believe in an invisible entity just because writers 4000 years ago decided to make him an absolute in a book. What if we're wrong? Then we're wrong. I believe Heaven and Hell are control structures. That's what I believe, and I live my life based on that assumption. Many people need the threat of fire and brimstone to guide their morality. I don't.} Thats becoming an adult, making up your own mind what to believe and not to. Guess you were not happy in Sunday school, huh. Okay, so you do not believe in the bible teachings . What does that have to do with the price of eggs?

{ It doesn't matter if America was started by Christians, Muslims, Hindus, etc. America is not a big church. It's a government} A government started by Christians, my friend.


{You've lost me on the rest of your post. I really don't understand what you're getting at. Rome? What? Every nation falls. That has nothing to do with this topic}
Rome, once the greatest advance civilzation was downed by too many changes, some history books says. I think it has a whole lot to do with the topic.

Did you believe in Christmas growing up? Are you going to or do you celebrate Christmas with your family now? No need to reply here, just if you feel this strongly about all this. I would think you wouldn't want to be a hypocrite.

You seem to want to be perceived as a progressive thinker when it comes to the American government and the Christian religion. That is good, advancement in thinking is what helped America evolve and become the power it is today.

I have attempted to say that and we should also be respectful of our past and beginings as a country and not dismiss our foundation building blocks.

[TheNoNamedOne]

bokuwa, I wish you'd learn to format your replies in a way that is easier to follow. Also, you do not need to quote the whole post, particularly when it is not just a few sentences.

Just some advice, if you are a person who wants others to read your posts. I think a lot of people will not torture themselves going through that kind of post.

Formatting tools and discretion are your friends.

[dk]

I was about post the same thing. Thanks Prosecutor. Here comes my response.

[dk]

Who's modern America? Yours or the majority of America.
Modern America. It's a very simple concept. Modern day America.

After you wrote this, you state your case where picking God or whatever, whoever created man, the wrong choice. My mother didn't raise a fool.
So, you're basically saying that anyone who chose a different way than you did is a fool. Well, at least you don't beat around the bush.

So what is your point here? All change is good? I don't happen to believe that, along with a few others in the world.
My point is that evolution is everywhere. And that, my friend, is fact. Even the Christian faith has evolved from it's own beginnings.

Thats becoming an adult, making up your own mind what to believe and not to. Guess you were not happy in Sunday school, huh. Okay, so you do not believe in the bible teachings . What does that have to do with the price of eggs?
This has nothing to do with being happy in Sunday school. Do you believe everything just because it makes you happy? Or just because it strikes a nerve? Or just because it sparks an emotion? I certainly hope not for your own sake.

A government started by Christians, my friend.
The only thing that matters is the final outcome. I couldn't give a care if Joseph Smith or Jeffrey Dahmer invented America. Things aren't what they were during the beginning. Things change. Get over it. Slavery was widely accepted in the beginnings of America? Wanna revert back to that? Just because something played a major part in government back then doesn't mean it should play a major part in governmnt now.

Rome, once the greatest advance civilzation was downed by too many changes, some history books says. I think it has a whole lot to do with the topic.
It's not change that downs a nation. It's spreading yourself too thin and being unable to protect your own borders and interests.

Did you believe in Christmas growing up? Are you going to or do you celebrate Christmas with your family now? No need to reply here, just if you feel this strongly about all this. I would think you wouldn't want to be a hypocrite.
I treat Christmas the way non-theists treat Christmas. I treat it as a day of gift giving and relaxation with my family. And man, if you really want to get into the actual holiday of Christmas, there's an explosive topic right there. If you don't know why, google it or start a topic.

You seem to want to be perceived as a progressive thinker when it comes to the American government and the Christian religion. That is good, advancement in thinking is what helped America evolve and become the power it is today.
I really couldn't care less what I'm perceived as. I place no label on myself. I affiliate myself with no political movement. I am neither conservative nor liberal as far as alliegances are concerned. I am myself, and I am comfortable enough in my beliefs to stand alone with my beliefs if need be.

I have attempted to say that and we should also be respectful of our past and beginings as a country and not dismiss our foundation building blocks.
I agree completely. I am not advocating a total dismissal of our past. I am advocating religious tolerance across the board. You seem to be arguing against it.

[bokuwa]

I understand the concept. Do you understand main stream America and the majority.

There is an OLD expression we old folks use and it goes like this.
Man says to other man " what do you want the chicken or this $100.00 bill?" the man says " my mother didn't raise a fool, I'll take the $100.00"

Yes, things change. Not all things. I will say it again, not all change is for the better. Time will tell.

Do I believe everything that I was ever taught? The answer would be no.

Because something was and isn't now, I should get over it. Seems to me main stream America is still running the show.

The down fall of the Roman empire makes good reading.

A day of gift giving, on the day that Christ was born, sounds a little religious to me.

Maybe not, but I think at some point in a person's life they will have to take a stand and pick a side. Should the person want to seriously undertake the challenge to have things change to more of their own like.

Just an old friggin guy arguing about whatever comes up.

I hope life turns out to be what you want.

[dk]

A day of gift giving, on the day that Christ was born, sounds a little religious to me.

Christ wasn't actually born on December 25.

Here, I'll make it easy for you: http://de.essortment.com/christmaspagan_rece.htm

In fact, many Christmas customs have pagan origins. Just google it.

Here's more. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Christmas_traditions

A day of gift giving, on the day that Christ was born, sounds a little religious to me.

Even more ironic that you brought up gift giving. From the second link:

The custom of giving gifts at Christmas goes back to two Roman festivals, Saturnalia and Kalends, which were sacred to Saturn and Janus respectively. The very first gifts were simple items such as twigs from a sacred grove (as good luck emblems), figs, honey, and pastry. Soon that escalated to small items of jewellery, candles, and statues of various gods. The early Christian Church saw gift giving at the winter solstice as a residue of paganism and, therefore, severely frowned upon it. The people, however, would not part with the tradition, so the church exercised its old strategy of absorbing the practice. The Council of Tours, in 567 AD, declared that the twelve days between the Nativity and the Epiphany formed one, festal cycle. The Roman custom of giving presents at the solstice season was retained across much of Europe.

[bokuwa]

You don't have offer an explanation to your gift giving. I just thought it was interesting relating to all the other things you discussed.

I will guess what you are really waiting to hear is something to the effect that your right, I am wrong in my thinking. Or I see your point of contention and concur.

I say you have presented a good discussion on your part, well done.

[dk]

Good enough for me. :)

[InDuhUSA]

Why must we be reminded of an entity that is not proven to be in existence?

The separation of church and state should be just that, and parsimoniously so. But again and again we see religion trying to creep into our lives through legislation. If God exists, then why must we be reminded of it? Why would he not choose to reveal himself to us with a "personal relationship"? I've never had a personal relationship involving love, trust, or respect legislated to me.

Perhaps Christians need that constant reminding for fear that their faith and their own personal relationship will not stand over time without law supporting it.

Look at these funny little movements that have sprung up across the U.S. these last few years in trying to get the "alternative" view of creation into public schools taught within science classes when evolution is taught.

And our money. Our money just was not good enough up until the 1950's. The aesthetics of the design was just lacking something. Somehow legislating "In God We Trust" made us feel better. Now we are reminded of our trusting relationship with superstition in our pockets and with every economic transaction we engage in.

You know, the problem with atheists and agnostics is that they want their cake and eat it too. They rant against government funded religious symbols being used on public property, but where are they when the government funds a picture of Jesus in a pool of piss in some art museum. On the contrary, they will cheer the ACLU fighting to keep such "art" there.

Where is your righteous indignation when the ACLU fights for such groups as MANBLA (Man-Boy Love Association). Many of you anti-god/anti-religion in government folks are usually pro-abortion nd you wink at the fact that many of these things are government funded. Where is your righteous indignation at government funded killing of fetuses? If you feel that a woman has a right to do what she wants ith her body, then let's be consistent and not have my tax dollars pay for her right.

So There :p

[InDuhUSA]

I'm not too keen on Creationism being taught in schools as it has never had any solid proof whatsoever other than a book that says "here's your proof". They might as well teach every religions' views of the beginning if they're going to teach Creationism. Evolution has not been proven as the reason for life as we know it, but evolution is a far better explanation than "A big being took a clump of mud, made man, pulled out his rib, and woman began."

What kind of reasoning is THAT?!!!! :eek:

If something cannot be "proven" then it should not be taught - PERIOD!!! Just because something appears to one person to have a better explanation than another is no reason to teach it if there is no valid evidence for it. If creationism (which many, many legitimate scientists believe in and have written books to make a case for) cannot be proven then it should not be taught. If evolution (which is still said to be a "theory" and which many scientists are now disputing) has no evidence then it should not be taught.

An unbias teacher should present both possibilities and let the individual decide. Instead an evolution and a creationist both attempt to convert young impressionable minds to their point of view. I am a creationist personally, and I believe that there is strong evidence for it. But if we are going to be fair and exclude creationism from our schools, then do the same with evolution. One should teach based on proven facts, and not simply what makes the most sense to the one presenting the idea.

If you ask me, evolution really makes no sense. How in the world can all of the detailed structure of human DNA, variou species of animals, trees, flowers, food, etc. have just come about by some great big explosion? How can someone say we went from a little guppie, to a fish, to an ape. To say that warmongering man came from an ape is to insult every monkey on the planet :D

[dk]

There is a whole lot more proof to back evolution than there is to back creationism. Heck, Christians still believe the earth to be 4000 years old, don't they?

How would you even prove creationism short of God almighty himself doing an interview.

[InDuhUSA]

There is a whole lot more proof to back evolution than there is to back creationism. Heck, Christians still believe the earth to be 4000 years old, don't they?

How would you even prove creationism short of God almighty himself doing an interview.

I think the amount of proof depends strongly on one's bias. The books I have read supporting creationism and intelligent design by legitimate scientists say that not only is there more scientific proof supporting creationism, but that more scientists lean towards creationism than the media and other staunch evolutionists (which I consider to be a "religion" in and of itself) would lead us to believe.

It has been a while since I have read the books but I would figure you prove creatiomism/intelligent design the way you prove someone created a sculpture or anything else. I have not yet seen anyone prove that one can create beautiful trees and mountains and the intricate details of a human's body by a big cosmic explosion. ;)

Knowing how detailed the human body is (and even the bodies of animals), intelligent design seems to be the most sensible option in my bias opinion. Even if there was evolution (and I don't believe there is), someone intelligent being would have to be in charge of the evolution process. The complex details of the human body does not come by chance.

[dk]

Good post. And I agree, it's all bias.

Quick question. Does the bible give a specific reason why God has always been invisible? Well, practically always. What's the point in being invisible all the time? Do you have any specific verses about this?

Also, why would a perfect entity need to rest after 6 days? Does perfection actually get tired? Or was it for recreation?

[Asshat]

Good post. And I agree, it's all bias.

Quick question. Does the bible give a specific reason why God has always been invisible? Well, practically always. What's the point in being invisible all the time? Do you have any specific verses about this?

Also, why would a perfect entity need to rest after 6 days? Does perfection actually get tired? Or was it for recreation?

It's to test us. To ensure we have faith. The same reasons we are given when a child dies. God’s will, because otherwise it makes absolutely no sense. Like considering the infinite vastness of the universe, we simple men can not understand it, so God made it. We can not understand how a sperm knows to penetrate an egg and create a life, so we say God made that right after he made the universe.

The posts which speak of God this and God that in the forming of America, (the original premise of this thread) fail to fully address the required separation of church and state. This omits the fact that "inspired by god" or not, our forefathers knew enough to stipulate this separation. After all, this was the reason the Puritans left England in the first place.

Call it faith, call it superstition, Christianity is categorized with the other mystic religions in the same theological category given to Buddhism, Hinduism, and those evil Muslims.
There is a difference between practicing a religion and practicing spirituality. To be spiritual, one need not be religious.

The current brand of self-proclaimed Soldiers of the Right has done more harm than good. Terry Shiavo stays hooked up to life support for seven years, her husband wants her disconnected-what we term "primary next of kin" and the President of the USA feels it necessary to weigh in on the matter. Yet his home state leads the world in "legal" executions. He himself has sentenced many of our young men to death in an ill-conceived and non-supported engagement.

Cures for disease such as cancer are being researched with promising results, yet universities who perform stem cell research are denied certain Federal grants for doing it.

I see a certain amount of contradiction in the current state of affairs, but from my understanding of what Christ represented- love, forgiveness, peace- are the antithesis of what the conservative right seems to be about.

Religion should be the right of the individual. But leave religion out of government.

[InDuhUSA]

Good post. And I agree, it's all bias.

Quick question. Does the bible give a specific reason why God has always been invisible? Well, practically always. What's the point in being invisible all the time? Do you have any specific verses about this?

Good questions DK. Now please understand that I don't claim to be a Bible expert and someone else may be able to answer your question much better than I can, but since I like challenges, let me give this a shot. I believe the book of Deuteronomy provides the best answer to your question here:

The Lord spoke to you at Mount Horeb out of the fire. But you didn't see any shape or form that day. So be very careful. Make sure you don't commit a horrible sin. Don't make for yourselves a statue of a god. Don't make a god that looks like a man or woman or anything else. Don't make one that looks like any animal on earth or any bird that flies in the sky. Don't make a statue that looks like any creature that moves along the ground or any fish that swims in the water. When you look up at the heavens, you will see the sun and moon. And you will see huge numbers of stars. Don't let anyone tempt you to bow down to the sun, moon or stars. Don't worship things the Lord your God has provided for all of the nations on earth. (Deuteronomy 4:15-19; New International Reader's Version)

From this passage, we see that God often allows Himself to stay invisible to the naked eye because of man's propensity to create images of Him to worship rather than to worship the creator Himself. Furthermore, we must remember that God is a spirit (John 4:24) and you and I live in a flesh and blood world. However, God did make Himself visible by sending His Son Jesus. Jesus told one of His disciples, "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father." (John 14:9)

Anyway, the Bible seems to teach that our worship of God is not based on a physical form, but on faith (Heb. 11:6).

Also, why would a perfect entity need to rest after 6 days? Does perfection actually get tired? Or was it for recreation?

Again a very good question, one that I am not sure that I can answer because places in the Bible that says that God is never tired or weary (Isaiah 40:8) and that He never slumbers or sleeps (Ps. 121:4, 5). So the only answer I can think of from the Bible is that God rested on the seventh day in order to provide man an example - that man should rest:

But the seventh day is a Sabbath in honor of the Lord your God. Do not do any work on that day. The same command applies to your sons and daughters, your male and female servants, and your animals. It also applies to any outsiders who live in your cities. In six days I made the heavens and the earth. I made the oceans and everything in them. But I rested on the seventh day. So I blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. (Ex. 20:10, 11)

So it seems that God rested on the seventh day, not because He was tired or needed recreation, but because He wanted to provide an example that man should follow. Man should have one day of rest and not work.

Agaian, this is my understanding of the Bible's explanation for these things. Of course one must believe that the Bible is an authoritative book in order to even take any of what I have quoted seriously. Nonetheless, I do believe that those might answer your questions I hope. If not, someone who is more knowledgeable than myself may have to step in and do a btter job. ;)