Does where you work have a Christmas party?

[Muku]

First off to protect the innocent here I am not going to state where this came from or where the "person" I got this from works. Purely to protect this person because there is a very high possibility that people from that work area read this forum. Odds are they will know the shop as well just from the information here, yet will not know who it came from.

Every year this person's work place had a staff Christmas party, let me clarify this is an on base location, the people got all dressed up, at one of the clubs every one got together and had a great time. Their work space was decorated with traditional Christmas decorations, the whole 9 yards.

In comes a new member and everything went to shit, Christmas time approached, people started talking about the party and how they were going to decorate, making plans about exchanging gifts between workers, and this all came to a screeching halt:cursing: because of this "one" employee.

This person pitched a royal fit that Christmas was a religious holiday and since she was atheist believed that her "rights" were being stepped on because other people were celebrating a religious holiday. When in fact the overwhelming majority of the staff were non religious but just celebrating the secular fun of Christmas. No amount of discussion, bitching, arguing could placate this person. They did their job no problems there, generally got along with everyone except for this one "little":rolleyes: problem.

She threatened legal action if the activities took place,....long story short, no party, everyone felt like shit end of year. :cursing::crying::mad:

This was last year, same person is in the shop......what would you do?

[dk]

Throw the party anyway. He/She doesn't have to come.

[socalheart]

Have the party on her day off and don't tell her about it. If she's on an office schedule, decorate the office on Friday night and have the party on Saturday. Exchange gifts secret Santa style and purposefully display them on your work desks, but be sure to leave her out of the exchange.
I don't see why a self-proclaimed atheist even cares about who celebrates a holiday religious or otherwise. People like her get my dander up. :cursing: I hope no one gives her any gifts or acknowledges anything she might celebrate, like her birthday. Afterall, the story goes that jesus had a birthday, and she doesn't acknowledge his exostence, why should anyone acknowledge hers? And no Easter candy for her, or Halloween or anything! grrr...

[Muku]

Throw the party anyway. He/She doesn't have to come.
I said the same thing, and unfortunately because of her a lot of normally cheerful and friendly people really got the blues last year and kind of popped everyones holiday bubbles.

I am hoping that this year things can get off on a better foot and people can do an end run around this "person". Personally I would say screw you, but because people have to be PC, that is not the way to go.

Have the party on her day off and don't tell her about it. If she's on an office schedule, decorate the office on Friday night and have the party on Saturday. Exchange gifts secret Santa style and purposefully display them on your work desks, but be sure to leave her out of the exchange.
I don't see why a self-proclaimed atheist even cares about who celebrates a holiday religious or otherwise.
I dont either, be they felt their rights were being infringed on, and they had the right to work in an environment that was free from any displays of religion. This person even claimed that the Christmas tree was a religious decoration and refused to allow people from displaying one. I was told things got nasty.

One problem is this person is also middle to upper management.

[keera4]

Have a "group gathering" at someones house or at an alternate location and not invite her.

[dk]

Have a "group gathering" at someones house or at an alternate location and not invite her.
That's probably the best advice so far.

[ryukyuboi]

The people of the shop must have felt they were on shaky legal grounds if they decided not to go ahead with their secular Christmas plans on the job. Or perhaps the people were not courageous enough to pursue the legal issue, and chose to back off. I think the workers in the shop should test the legal waters this year. The base legal office should be able to provide guidance.

[Bones]

Posted by Muku:

She threatened legal action if the activities took place,....long story short, no party, everyone felt like shit end of year.

She has the right to do whatever it takes, as far as the work place is concerned. So if that means no decorations, costumes, etc...., you're pretty much restricted to legal avenues.

But if the actual "Party", takes place away from the building that you are working in, say like NCO/Officers Club, she has no legal right to prevent you from having that party over there.

There is nothing that says that you can not go over her head, and file a grievance to a person above her level however. If her only complaint is that she "doesn't celebrate religious holidays", and if all of the party attendees will swear in a Court of Law, that they would be willing to attend that party, of their own free will, without a particular religion being forced upon them for continued employment, she doesn't have a case.

Keep in mind, that all of the gifts that are being exchanged, fit within the guidelines provided by the company that you are working for. For example, if the type of gift that you give to a fellow worker is more expensive, than what some other workers might give that person, and you get promoted ahead of the other people who gave a lesser gift, there will be problems in your future.

Having been an upper level manager, this is the kind of thing that I would put a stop to, real fast. I would listen to the complainer, but if the majority of my workers were made to feel uncomfortable, that person would have to go.

I would try to make some friends at the Legal Office, just to see what your options are, but from what I've read so far.....

Have a GREAT TIME at YOUR CHRISTMAS PARTY!!!!!!

NBTP

[Ammoyankee]

Yeah, we can't even call it a Christmas party. It has to be the Squadron Holiday Party. People Suck!

[P_chan]

Exactly what dk and keera said! Just because you don't believe in something doesn't mean everyone else has to not do what they normally do to make you happy. This "person" forcing everyone to not have a christmas party, is the same thing as someone forcing her to participate in a religious christmas party IMO.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

She threatened legal action if the activities took place,....long story short, no
How serious is a threat like this? Has anyone experienced a similar threat being backed up with action?

[ja_Patriot]

If I were her boss, and seeing how it affected team morale the year before, I would ask her to write her grievance and what exactly she objects to in a memo and take action based on it.

[DoctorP]

Unless someone is reading from the bible and preaching about Jesus and the Virgin Mary, then I don't view a Christmas party as a religious function. All I see it as is a reason for people to get together, drink and exchange gifts...I would tell her to KMA!

[kombu_kid]

Funny how some people just "get their jollies" by trying to control a situation. If the party is scheduled from say, noon to 6PM, just make it optional to attend. This person could just take that time off. Or schedule it as a private function on a certain date & location. A-holes, whiners and jerks need not show up. And as for threatening legal action, I'd call that person's bluff. What's the worst that could happen?

[silviasichigo]

Someone should PM me the office so I can walk in everyday with a different shirt each day that says Jesus Rules!, God is the man shit like that and the closer it gets to Christmas I will start wearing red green shirts that says J's B-day only 15 days, 10days, etc I will walk into her office everyday saying hey lady boy whats up! then maybe she will hit me and I can file legal charges (Man the kid in me is strong)

Sorry I am in a strange mood today

[Tempestuous]

I have know many a believers or one type or another that particular holiday shindigs were not in tradition with their beliefs.
At school or work they simply did not participate in the functions. On holidays like Halloween they would not go to school or would leave before the parties or in the work place did not interact with the function or took lunch during the party.

There are ways she can choose to practice her beliefs without forcing others to NOT practice their own.

As for Christmas- as mentioned it is actually rooted in a pegan holiday.

As for legal action....did no one want to have to deal with that? I don't see how she could honestly pursue legal action. She gonna go into the commissary and threaten to sue cause they put up a Christmas tree and decorations around the store?
Someone in the group there should of had the balls to stand up and actually look into the situation before just automatically bailing on it.

I could see if they were requiring her to participate there being an issue, but doesn't she have a choice not to attend?
Oh well, that is the past.

I like Keera's input to host it somewhere else or during a non-work hour shift for her.

Good luck to that group of people!!!
KEEP YOUR CHRISTMAS PARTY!!!! :)

[P_chan]

I think that girl just needs a good slap in the face:D

[Muku]

I think that girl just needs a good slap in the face:D

The thought has crossed numerous peoples minds on numerous occasions. I am going to be having a chat today with my "friend" and ask that they take a look at this thread here.:)

[drinkandrun]

OK if anyone has read the religion threads it's obvious that I'm an atheist and will not be oppressed by religion or the religious. However, unless you're all praying, singing hymns, or really getting your Jesus on and trying to make everyone do it, this one's just causing problems. I think that the antithesis of atheism is forcing your beliefs on others but that's not the point. No matter what you believe in it's a fact that December is a pretty big month for holidays check it out:

http://www3.kumc.edu/diversity/december.html

So here's what you do with one of these whiners:
1. Call it a holiday party in fliers, emails, or whatever. It's better all around and pretty much acceptable meanwhile most people call it the Christmas party .

2. When she starts to bitch about "Christmas Trees" (lifted from pagan traditions BTW), decorate with a little something from each holiday by placing it on a table in a direct line of sight from her desk E.G. the African-American Unity flag for Kwanzaa. The link above should help you find the stuff you need and it'll cost about 20 bucks but you have to plan it ahead.

3. When she complains just point to the empty corner and tell her she's free to decorate it with whatever atheist symbols she wants. As long as you try, it's fair for everyone and she'll have to shut up and color.

4. Tell her the drinks are free. Even atheists like to booze it up.

With the exception of #4 all of the above will keep you out of "legal trouble", free booze just generally helps in any situation. Work parties make for legendary drunken nights of mischief.

[socalheart]

Just a thought... isn't that girl also infringing on the religious rights and freedoms of the others in the office? If a guy in the office is of the Jewish faith and displays a Star of David to celebrate their holiday, would he have the right to refuse to take it down when she asked? Afterall, she is being intolerant of his right to celebrate, as much as she says the WHOLE office is being intolerant of her right to not celebrate. If she files a complaint, each member of the office (because active duty folks can't file as a group, according to the PSA on TV) can file a counter-complaint. [beeeh-da!]

[NaNaKo]

There's always that one person ruining everything for everybody else.

In my previous job, during monthly staff meetings, we took turn bringing snacks to the meeting table. That was a morale booster and fun and made the meetings go faster.

In came this guy. He didn't say anything until it was his day to bring the snacks. We saw the empty table and asked maybe he forgot? Then he lectured us on how it was against the rule and how it was forced upon him, how he drank his own coffee and he didn't eat any of the previous snacks because he didn't like them. :cursing: We were looking like, why didn't you tell us when your turn was coming up? :thumbdown:

To resolve: We still needed the monthly meetings, and we still wanted our snacks. So we continued bringing the snacks to the table but kept the guy out of the rotation. So the guy during the meeting would sit aside, sipping his coffee. :thumbup:

[socalheart]

Re: 2. Or put get some construction paper, regular paper, pens, pencils, coloring things and make it all for less. It'll also be a nice office group thing to do to build morale.

Re: 3. What is an atheist symbol? No, really, I've never seen one, since I always understood that atheists don't believe in anything religious. Is it just a big X?


http://www3.kumc.edu/diversity/december.html

2. When she starts to bitch about "Christmas Trees" (lifted from pagan traditions BTW), decorate with a little something from each holiday by placing it on a table in a direct line of sight from her desk E.G. the African-American Unity flag for Kwanzaa. The link above should help you find the stuff you need and it'll cost about 20 bucks but you have to plan it ahead.

3. When she complains just point to the empty corner and tell her she's free to decorate it with whatever atheist symbols she wants. As long as you try, it's fair for everyone and she'll have to shut up and color.

[drinkandrun]

Re: 2. Or put get some construction paper, regular paper, pens, pencils, coloring things and make it all for less. It'll also be a nice office group thing to do to build morale.

Re: 3. What is an atheist symbol? No, really, I've never seen one, since I always understood that atheists don't believe in anything religious. Is it just a big X?

Saving cash is always cool and I'd imagine that the atheist corner would be empty which is what makes it funny :D

[Muku]

The "shop" that I am refering to also has Japanese employeess as well, both IHA, MLC and part time workers. The Japanese workers that understood the situation were like....oh well....they didn't want to make a stink about it. And it appears that the supervisor/director(?) was cowed into accepting the one over the many.

The supervisor this year has changed, and there has been a change over with some of the American staff as well. Just have to wait and see for right now.

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and suggestions, they are being passed right along as they come in.:thumbup::D

[DocTurtle]

I'm not a violent person...but hit her with a rock!!:7:
I think most of the advice given already should work. Don't make it a mando function and don't have it in the work environment :)

[Ammoyankee]

The way I look at it, if it offends, don't go! Find your own damn party...