Military Members of the Forum

[TheNoNamedOne]

I am really looking forward to growth in the membership of the forums by the military community (former and present). I like to discuss and debate with those who think differently from me, and since in general the military community is conservative and steeped in tradition, I think they will make good conversation opposites, not only for myself, but for others who consider themselves as progressive on most issues.

Although everyone is welcome to the forums, this is just a special invitation from me to the military community to jump in on threads already in progress or create your own. Whichever is fine, but don't sit on the sidelines lurking for too long. Find your voice and get it out there.

[dk]

I think they will make good conversation opposites, not only for myself, but for others who consider themselves as progressive on most issues.
The problem is that you're basically inviting outsiders military members to be OPPONENTS of PROGRESS.

I don't know... doesn't sound all that inviting to me, personally, how you have that worded.

[TheNoNamedOne]

The problem is that you're basically inviting outsiders military members to be OPPONENTS of PROGRESS.

I don't know... doesn't sound all that inviting to me, personally, how you have that worded.

No no no no. I geuss the confusion is with the word "progressive." Progressive is the word liberals use to refer to themselves ever since Limbaugh has turned that word into a pajorative with his use of it. Just means "liberal." Or as Limbaugh would say, "It is code for liberal."

[dk]

I had to actually look the word up before I replied just to make sure I understood what I was getting bent out of shape about. Here's the entry I came up with from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/progressive.

I didn't see #4 until just now. I understand that it's just a phrase, but if I hickupped on it, it's more than likely others would as well.


1. favoring or advocating progress, change, improvement, or reform, as opposed to wishing to maintain things as they are, esp. in political matters: a progressive mayor.

2. making progress toward better conditions; employing or advocating more enlightened or liberal ideas, new or experimental methods, etc.: a progressive community.

3. characterized by such progress, or by continuous improvement.

4. (initial capital letterhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png) of or pertaining to any of the Progressive parties in politics.

5. going forward or onward; passing successively from one member of a series to the next; proceeding step by step.

6. noting or pertaining to a form of taxation in which the rate increases with certain increases in taxable income.

7. of or pertaining to progressive education: progressive schools.

8. Grammar. noting a verb aspect or other verb category that indicates action or state going on at a temporal point of reference.

9. Medicine/Medical. continuously increasing in extent or severity, as a disease. –noun

10. a person who is progressive or who favors progress or reform, esp. in political matters.

11. (initial capital letterhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png) a member of a Progressive party.

12. Grammar. a.the progressive aspect. b.a verb form or construction in the progressive, as are thinking in They are thinking about it.

No harm done by me. I had a hunch this is what you were trying to say, but that's why I felt it was a bit uninviting.

[TheNoNamedOne]

I see what you mean, dk. But I will presume that most will not see it as meaning they are against progress when opposing me, but that the word is just another term/label for liberal. And part of the quote above you listed specifically points that out here:

...or advocating more enlightened or liberal ideas, ...

But, if there are those of you who did not catch that "progressive" meant liberal and thought it was meaning you were against progress if you opposed my views, then I apologize for that confusion, and I asure you that that was not the intent, and that I am well aware that EVERYONE wants progress for the better.

[dk]

How in the world did I even miss that. Man my eyes must be TIRED.

[coffeejoejava]

I consider myslef a Conservative but I find myself having some middle of the road leanings. I will not bad mouth our government but they have screwed up the U.S.'s standing in this world. We are looked at with disdane and contempt because of our actions and seemingly uncaring attitude about everything.

[DoctorP]

This is one thread that never really took off. Putting it back out there to see if there are any takers!

[quietasariot]

I'm not a military member, I'm just married to a Marine.

I'd say some of my views are fairly conservative, but that was how I felt long before I married somebody who just happened to be part of the military.

[TheNoNamedOne]

QuietAR, on what social/rights issues would you say you're conservative on?

[quietasariot]

Well, I'm against abortion unless it's a medical emergency/rape/incest case. I can't see how abortion is OK when it's used as birth control. Obviously, I KNOW accidents happen. I have a daughter, she was a total "oops" despite birth control. But, I was an adult when I got pregnant, an adult when I had her, and that meant that I was adult enough to make the decision to have sex, get married, get pregnant, etc. Even if people are incapable of caring for the child, what about adoption? I guess my views are more emotional than logical, though :P I am very conservative when it comes to that (major) issue.

I suppose what I mean when I said "conservative" was in how I am as a wife of a Marine, etc. I'm a pretty "old-fashioned" kind of person. I feel my place is in the home, at least while my husband's in the USMC. I don't think it's right to put my kid in daycare when I'm perfectly capable of caring for her and my husband's paycheck more than provides for us. I guess I'm just not into stirring up conflict, getting my husband into trouble at work (surprising how often it happens), etc. Hell, I follow the stupid civilian dress code... mostly..

I like to keep myself on the down low... but, as I thought about what I AM conservative on, there's not a whole lot. Abortion is the big one.

There are still things I'm confused about - I'm still young, haven't voted yet just because I never felt that I've been educated enough to do so, nor do politicians EVER get an honest reputation, so it's hard to know who to trust. It seems like the country did better while Clinton was in office. Now that there are *more* troops going in to the Middle East, *more* people dying, I can say more than ever I do not support him. I don't think the war is doing a whole lot any more. Maybe he started with the proper intentions, but it certainly doesn't seem that way now.

I suppose I better get off my lazy butt and do some educatin' of my self :)

[ukreal1]

I am a liberal married to a marine, you can only imagine some of the debates we get into.

[ukreal1]

ps: what is this civilian dress code (so I can make sure I don't follow it LOL just kidding kind of, my husband refers to me as a rebel)

[TheNoNamedOne]

I am a liberal married to a marine, you can only imagine some of the debates we get into.

Hope you get him to come around.

[Fonze]

they shoul call this the liberals wa chat since the forum ad and forum moderatoer are so tilted to one side and wish they could have a one sided chat

[dk]

Wow, you're incredible. You've really got me pegged. By pegged, I mean, you appear to not know shit. Apparently, you can't even read, as I haven't even posted in this topic other than to debate the use of the term "progressive".

[P_chan]

Fonze you are the most ignorant person I've seen come into these forums. Hell I don't even like debating TP but at least he's not ignorant like you. Your going around and trying to start shit now. I think you should heed my advice and think a little before you droll us with your pathetic mewling.

[dk]

Fonze you are the most ignorant person I've seen come into these forums. Hell I don't even like debating TP but at least he's not ignorant like you. Your going around and trying to start shit now. I think you should heed my advice and think a little before you droll us with your pathetic mewling.
Be careful. He'll likely call you liberal anti-base hippy scum as soon as he sees your post. :army:

Which would just crack me up to no end.

[P_chan]

Seriously I don't think you get more middle of the road then me. I'm not a 'liberal hippy' that is for sure!

[dk]

Seriously I don't think you get more middle of the road then me. I'm not a 'liberal hippy' that is for sure!
I'm pretty much a little left of center, which to me seems healthy. I'm not going to judge people by placing them under categories like "liberal" or "conservative". From what I've seen in life, most people tend to fall a little to the left or right. Extremists are pretty rare.

[Fonze]

thanks for the advice p chan i will honestly think about it, but is there not to be a different point of view from the other views, sorry dk

[dk]

No problem Fonze.

You're welcome to have a different view. Most people who use these forums ARE military, so I'm sure you'll find a lot of agreement.

[socalheart]

... liberal anti-base hippy scum as soon as he sees your post. :army:
Which would just crack me up to no end.

Hippies scare me... but, I love the piggies! :thumbup:

I'm a Republican from Orange County, CA (which only means something if you know CA). My husband is a Texas Democrat. We both vote Republican. Ha! :D (heeheeheeheehee...)

[Tempestuous]

I was thinkin.....Rep in Orange County???? Hmmmm, that's interesting, THEN I saw the Dem Texan and I KNEW something was fishy. ;)

[Muku]

I am former military, and for the record I am neither Republican nor Democrat.

In my opinion there are many things that I agree with from both parties and yet there are many things I strongly disagree with as well. On some issues I probably would be viewed as liberal but on others strongly conservative, so what does that make me a "libercon"?

I also do not like labeling people as one or the other, when I feel in most cases most are somewhere in between.

Oh and lastly for the record here I support the US Military, however just because I support the military does not mean that I accept everything it does or doesnt do either.

Just as I respect peoples lifestyle choices, but I have a personal policy of "Don't ask don't tell":ohmy:

[heather]

Uchinamuku made a great piont just beacuse most americans are apart of the military in some form or anouther does not mean that they are librals. Some time they just have to do what they are being told without question. and if i really not on the right page some one please info me so i don't look like a complete fool :)

[A'Sharad]

I was thinkin.....Rep in Orange County???? Hmmmm, that's interesting, THEN I saw the Dem Texan and I KNEW something was fishy. ;)

What??? Wasnt my choice to be Dem. One of those family things...Family has alway been Dem but since i joined the military i have voted Rep. Republicans take care of their military....means mo money fo me :thumbup:

[TheNoNamedOne]

Republicans take care of their military....means mo money fo me

Oh, I see. You mean by lieing for the reasons to send them into harm's way?

I am sure life insurance payout money has meant "mo" money for about 3,000 families within the last several years. And then after a year, those widows and widowers are told to leave the base and take their neatly folded 3 cornered flag with them.

[A'Sharad]

Oh, I see. You mean by lieing for the reasons to send them into harm's way?

I am sure life insurance payout money has meant "mo" money for about 3,000 families within the last several years. And then after a year, those widows and widowers are told to leave the base and take their neatly folded 3 cornered flag with them.

Dont get pissy now. I have folded those flags and presented those flags to weeping mothers or wives and even husbands. They all know the risks, but OUR military is an all volunteer force. There is no conscription. We are put in harms way everyday...its a part of military life. I was speaking about the quality of life for us now. When i joined in 91, life really sucked and we were below the minimum wage for most jobs in the REAL world. Since then every DEM has cut our pay checks, closed bases and really made life hard on us. Every REP has raised out quality of life and our pay. I dont agree with some things being done by the current CINC but I cant speak out against him. He tells me where to go...I go. :army:

[TheNoNamedOne]

I dont agree with some things being done by the current CINC but I cant speak out against him.

You can in a forum like this.

[ryukyuboi]

The Secretary of Defense in the Clinton years was a Republican. Donald Rumsfeld, another Secretary of Defense Republican, pushed for closing bases. Closing bases has more to do with necessity and available funds.

Also, funds were available to increase the pay of military members after the Clinton years because Clinton was able to create a surplus of federal funds. The federal funds have been in the red since the Republicans took over.

Republicans talk about less government and less government spending, and do otherwise. Bush created the Dept. of Homeland Security. Check out their budget and spending. The war in the Middle East costs taxpayers about a billion dollars per week under the Bush administration. For what?

I lean left politically, but think Americans need to come together as a people. Divisiveness, especially since Bush took office, does more harm than good for the country. More compromise and working together, despite differences, will be a good thing for the USA.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Divisiveness, especially since Bush took office, does more harm than good for the country. More compromise and working together, despite differences, will be a good thing for the USA.

But don't Republicans think that a president's wife working on health care and a president scenting his cigars with an intern are more divisive than misleading about reasons to invade a country that has killed 3000 of our servicemen and has strained our alliances?

[DougP]

Both sides seem to do a great deal of dwelling on the past instead of looking forward and finding solutions.:rolleyes:

[dk]

Both sides seem to do a great deal of dwelling on the past instead of looking forward and finding solutions.:rolleyes:
Well he is still president... I can see us getting over it, you know, if it wasn't his fault.

[DougP]

I for one am moving on. Shit is way too inclusive for me. Its easy to point figures now even though all the cards haven't been delt. I'm sure this will be debated like Kennedy's assassination for years to come. Conspiracy theorists love this kind of drama. Me I'm not going to drag my feet on this one. Yes we can't forget the past but we can't dwell on it either.

Its like children crying "But he started it.."

[dk]

So how long is your attention span? Most of the American public have an attention span of about 2 weeks.

I prefer to remember the facts and to dwell on them. Kind of helps in real life when it comes to knowing who you can trust and who you can't. Imagine if you let some guy rob you every 2 years, yet you still hung out with him. No, I'll remember, thanks.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Both sides seem to do a great deal of dwelling on the past instead of looking forward and finding solutions.:rolleyes:

Yes, but the past is instructive for lessons learned and for avoiding future pitfalls which may be burried in the past. That said, we should take a certain amount of time to dwell on the failures of our intelligence, leadership, and the sacrifices paid in blood from those.

Looking at the failures of Clinton allows us to put some perspective on what we have now. Clinton's seem rather light in comparison. Thousands of friends and family members will attest on behalf of 3000 on that.

[Fonze]

So are you guys saying one party is better than the other?

[dk]

I'm not saying anything. I'm not partial to either party. I view people as individuals and judge them by their character and the character of those they associate with.

Democrats... Republicans... both have the opportunity to be equally harmful.

[DougP]

So how long is your attention span? Most of the American public have an attention span of about 2 weeks.

I prefer to remember the facts and to dwell on them. Kind of helps in real life when it comes to knowing who you can trust and who you can't. Imagine if you let some guy rob you every 2 years, yet you still hung out with him. No, I'll remember, thanks.

which is why I'm still angry at those who thought it would be a good idea to hijack some planes and get us all into this mess. If it weren't for terrorists what problems would we be having in Iraq? I choose to dwell on those who truely caused us the most harm:D

[dk]

True that.

If it weren't for 9/11, do you think we'd even be in Iraq? Do you think Bush would have as easily been able to dupe the public without the WTC attacks? What do you think our justification would be and how would we be able to call it a war and not an invasion?

[Fonze]

Some people are just so anti bush that they emotionally invest themselves and refuse to look at facts. That man along with those before him have the most stressful job. I would never want his job.

[DougP]

True that.

If it weren't for 9/11, do you think we'd even be in Iraq? Do you think Bush would have as easily been able to dupe the public without the WTC attacks? What do you think our justification would be and how would we be able to call it a war and not an invasion?

I doubt he would have been reelected:) We would not be in Iraq.

[Asshat]

Every REP has raised out quality of life and our pay.

I TOTALLY disagree with this statement. The very first chunck of "above and beyond "approprated funding for the war in Iraq came from the VA. Bush is the one who grabbed it.

Every single bit of legislation that has gone towards assisting the VA has come from a Democrat. Please don't go on about how good the Republicans are for giving you an extra six persent of COLA, or that 5.1% pay raise. They're the ones who put you in harm's way in the first place after telling the country about all those WMD's. They're the ones who infered that Saddam Hussein was harboring terrorists.

After you've Googled which party has been historically behind legislation for vets, you might try Googling who has been behind the BRAC action over the years, and why.

Sorry to come off like a dick, but as a lifelong Republican, this last six years have gone a long way towards changing my way of looking at the Big Buisness Party. The Republicans have done nothing for me.

[Asshat]

Some people are just so anti bush that they emotionally invest themselves and refuse to look at facts.

Please tell me which facts you refer to that made the invasion of Iraq legitimate.

I became anti-Bush when I found out he'd lied to me.

The US military is the best fighting force on the planet. I am proud of all they do. I am not proud of what they are told to do.

I also understand that if a military person in harm's way adopts my way of thinking, it undermines that individuals efforts to feel he/she is doing something worthwhile.

You keep doing what you're doing. It's what you signed up for, and I am proud of you. But I can not swallow the koolaide laddled out to the middle class who sends their kids to war for the benefit of Haliburton, and a religious right who is hell-bent on turning our country into a theocracy.

[ryukyuboi]

uminchu, your last two posts are thoughtful and well written. Well done.

[Asshat]

uminchu, your last two posts are thoughtful and well written. Well done.

Thanks...after I posted them, I watched the news for awhile and realized I should have added that the Democratic party is a complete joke.

When my wife saw that Oprah was backing Obama, she said; "but he has no experience." My reply: "At least he doesn't owe anyone anything."

All I can say to the current crop of warriors out there is "hurry up and win, so we can get you out of there." Unfortunately, our politicians need to pull their heads out of their asses before that is possible.

[socalheart]

Well, technically, all the political parties as they are now can be considered a "complete joke." Way back when during once upon a time, the politics were really about what was best for "the Republic" and "we the people". Now, it just seems to me to be about who talks the best game, or going along with what you're familiar with instead of spending tons of time cutting through the fat to get to the meat of things, whether it be candidates or issues.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Way back when during once upon a time, the politics were really about what was best for "the Republic" and "we the people".

I tend to not believe this when I see it. I mean, when is "way back when"? Politics have always been rough and tumble and it is inherent that political systems with multi parties are going to work in a way where things are not so simple in doing what is best for the country.

"Way back when" -- say in the 1860s -- politics working for the best of "the Republic" did not prevent the country from splitting in two, and then a devastating war to bring them back together.

The point is, 100 years from now a people will be talking about their current political situation with an eye on us as "way back when" just as we do so now to years before us. But our grandfathers, too, looked longingly to the past before them as a model of better times.

This "way back when" thing as a better time is an elusive concept.

[Fonze]

Please tell me which facts you refer to that made the invasion of Iraq legitimate.

I became anti-Bush when I found out he'd lied to me.

.

The facts are that sadly we gave him weapons and he did not disclose them when asked to. The question should be where are they cause just cause we didn't find them there does not mean they don't exist.

On you being anti-bush I hope your'e also anti-clinton caused he believed all these thing as well as all his hardcore dem followers. I believed he also was misled and made a mistake and has accepted fault, but saddam also was removed for other reasons and sadly the biggest one wasn't FOUND.

AS for all you anti-Iraq war people that say we should have used diplomacy yet were okay with the us involvement in kosovo, because the genocide of MUSLIMS that we assisted in stopping the murder of. That shows you that the UN is garbage cause they neede help we helped, We neede help they said no and not because they thought it was wrong but their corrupt oil for food program. What makes kosovo victims more important than iraqi ones?Also many are now saying let's help darfur? At what price.?

I do belive Iraq was mishandled for many reasons and the biggest one was our hope that they wanted freedom more than we wanted it for them. I believe if we pull out Iran (which no one can deny is stirring up shit) will follow us to afganistan knowing they need to do the same thing they did in iraq and we will leave.

You anti-iraqs do believe we should be in afganistan right? Even if we lose 100,000 youv'e all admitted thats where the fight should be and I hope you have a strong stomach for that cause thats what will happen. I believe this fight is just as or more important than WWII, but thats just me.

In the end I believe if we'e going to fight let's go hard,if not lets just help our allies and say FUK the rest of the world and wait for WW3 cause thats what will happen.