What is your opinion on this church?

[Go-Shay]

http://http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21566280/

Westboro Baptist Church

[DocTurtle]

Umm...more info?

[keera4]

They believe that US forces are dying because we as a country accept homosexuality. They go out a protest at fallen services members funerals.
I think that they are rude and a bunch of nutzz that are hiding behind the first amendment.

[socalheart]

http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photo_StoryLevel/071031/071031_soldierProtests_hmed_4p.hmedium.jpg

Anti-gay church protested at ceremony for man’s son, a fallen Iraq Marine (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21566280/) (Revised URL link)

I think that these type of protestors are one of the worst examples of America's basic right of religious freedoms. That they use children to encourage their hate is appalling. Some people just need to be taken out and shot... with frozen paintballs.

[dk]

Let's shoot them to the moon. Or into the sun.

[DocTurtle]

Ahh, I'm at my computer at work and images don't always show up. I remember seeing this a couple days back. It's rediculous! These nut jobs need to find a rock to crawl under and just die. I can't believe that they actually brainwashed kids into doing thing too! Shame on those parents for doing that if nothing else.
I agree with the frozen paintball idea as well. Burry them up to their necks and grab a riding mower...you do the math ;)

[NaNaKo]

I've heard news about this church; they're so mean!:mad:

[Crazysix]

humm religion at its best, they should be shipped to Gitmo

[TheNoNamedOne]

Ahh, I'm at my computer at work and images don't always show up. I remember seeing this a couple days back. It's rediculous! These nut jobs need to find a rock to crawl under and just die. I can't believe that they actually brainwashed kids into doing thing too! Shame on those parents for doing that if nothing else.
I agree with the frozen paintball idea as well. Burry them up to their necks and grab a riding mower...you do the math ;)

I see your point, Doc, but is brainwashing to do that (i.e. teaching them to support their family in their ideas and convictions) any different than just teaching them to support their beliefs in a god or religion? And to even act on that by encouraging them to help with church events?

As for brainwashing we do it all the time with Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny.

Perhaps the main point of contention is simply the message of some of the signs about dead soldiers and showing up at funerals. Should that be off limits out of respect for the families grief? Well, some people still grieve badly over the death of Jesus. Should we make putting crucifixes in urine or sculptures of The Virgin Mary out of cow dung off limits, too? Who decides which sensibilities at the cost of protest and freedom of speech gets to be respected and those which have to suck it up?

[Asshat]

Gotta let them protest I suppose. Too bad the family couldn't get a restraining order for the funeral.

I would find it very difficult as a father of a dead son not to go over to the picket and beat the living shit out of every single one of them.

[Fonze]

they did come up with a law that said they couldn't be within a certain distanca of those funerals. Also some bikers were helping out the mourners by keeping the protesters at bay or something i forget.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

I see your point, Doc, but is brainwashing to do that (i.e. teaching them to support their family in their ideas and convictions) any different than just teaching them to support their beliefs in a god or religion? And to even act on that by encouraging them to help with church events?

As for brainwashing we do it all the time with Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny.


Sure it's brainwashing TP.

We don't hesitate in labeling kids as Protestant or Catholic or Jewish or Muslim (or Baptist or whatever religion or sect), but we don't generally say a conservative kid or a liberal kid or a Repulican or Democrat kid. Kids are too young to have been exposed to all the different issues and form their own opinions based on evidence & experience in these matters. Why should religion be any different? Are kids specially equiped to sort out matters of the soul at an early age? Should they blindly follow their parents belief system, without exposure to and a chance to learn more about other belief systems? Must they remain lifelong Baptists because their parents were? This kind of dogma and experience at a young age will handicap these children when exposed with new ideas and situations. They are victims.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Should they blindly follow their parents belief system, without exposure to and a chance to learn more about other belief systems? Must they remain lifelong Baptists because their parents were? This kind of dogma and experience at a young age will handicap these children when exposed with new ideas and situations. They are victims.

Agreed, E.

I would be in favor of a law banning organized religious indoctrination of all children under the age of 14. No public proselytizing to children under the age of 14 as well.

And you know how it is now against the law to use cute animals like camels to sell tobacco products? -- I would also say make it against the law to print religious indoctrination material in comic or cute forms of animals (e.g. Noah and the ark, Jesus being the kindly good shepherd carrying a lamb on his shoulder, etc...) to appeal to children.

[kombu_kid]

If that was my kid's funeral, I'd make those M/F..ers wish they weren't born.

[TheNoNamedOne]

You would turn the day of mourning for your child into a violent occassion? Or make his passing end on one of revenge?

Like someone previously said, they are now kept at a considerable distance, so perhaps the scene would not be as carnival like as one may imagine.

[socalheart]

And you know how it is now against the law to use cute animals like camels to sell tobacco products?
Since when is a camel cute? EW! (o.O)

I see how it could be considered "brain washing" children, but it could also be considered "teaching values" to children. I suppose it could be seen as the same difference. Children do have their own opinions, but those opinions are always based on what they know. I think it's in the teen years that they're able to turn opinion into practice of their own free will, which often seems rebellious.

I find it appalling that parents allow their children to spread their (parents') hate, and I believe it's wrong to use your children in that way. I don't say that they can't use their children to spread hate, I simply don't agree with it. I think their church's and its parishioners' beliefs and practices are twisted.

[P_chan]

Should that be off limits out of respect for the families grief?

Um....yeah it should. Commen decencey dictates that. How would you like it if a child of yours had died and while at the funeral a bunch of people were there making a scene? Sure they are at a distance, but they still don't belong there. It's all a publicity stunt anyways.

I agree with kombu, I would go over there and sodomize them with their own signs.

PS: They are being sued for millions by the father of a solider killing in combat:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/31/funeral.protest/index.html

Good for him:thumbup:

[Ammoyankee]

If I recall, there is now a group of veteran bikers that also attend the funerals and stand guard so these j@cka$$e$ cannot directly interfere...

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Since when is a camel cute? EW! (o.O)

I see how it could be considered "brain washing" children, but it could also be considered "teaching values" to children. I suppose it could be seen as the same difference. Children do have their own opinions, but those opinions are always based on what they know. I think it's in the teen years that they're able to turn opinion into practice of their own free will, which often seems rebellious.

I find it appalling that parents allow their children to spread their (parents') hate, and I believe it's wrong to use your children in that way. I don't say that they can't use their children to spread hate, I simply don't agree with it. I think their church's and its parishioners' beliefs and practices are twisted.
Teaching values is distinct from teaching that one and only one religion is the correct one and must be followed for life. You can teach kids to respect others, and be good citizens without forcing a specific religion on them before they are old enough to make their own life choices.

[ja_Patriot]

You would turn the day of mourning for your child into a violent occassion? Or make his passing end on one of revenge?

Like someone previously said, they are now kept at a considerable distance, so perhaps the scene would not be as carnival like as one may imagine.


It never ceases to amaze me how you always manage to pick the wrong side of things.

If my son gave the ultimate sacrifice.... I shouldn't even think of what I'd do with these fringe lunatics but I can guarantee you it won't be pretty.

[Fonze]

Speaking of this church check this out
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,307058,00.html

BALTIMORE — The father of a fallen Marine was awarded nearly $11 million Wednesday in damages by a jury that found leaders of a fundamentalist church had invaded the family's privacy and inflicted emotional distress when they picketed the Marine's funeral.

The jury first awarded $2.9 million in compensatory damages. It returned later in the afternoon with its decision to award $6 million in punitive damages for invasion of privacy and $2 million for causing emotional distress to the Marine's father, Albert Snyder of York, Pa.

Snyder sued the Kansas-based Westboro Baptist Church for unspecified monetary damages after members staged a demonstration at the March 2006 funeral of his son, Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, who was killed in Iraq.

The defense said it planned to appeal and one of the church's leaders, Shirley Phelps-Roper, said the members would continue their pickets of military funerals.

[ja_Patriot]

I knew there was a lawsuit, but that article just came out today (Oct 31).

"Snyder's suit named the church, its founder, the Rev. Fred Phelps, and his two daughters, Shirley Phelps-Roper and Rebecca Phelps-Davis, 46."

$11 million. That will hurt. The next lawsuits should name the complete list of church members as defendants.

[P_chan]

Yep, I posted the exact same thing the post right before yours fonze.:D

[Fonze]

Yep, I posted the exact same thing the post right before yours fonze.:D

I completey missed it, it must be my lazy eyes.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Gotta let them protest I suppose. Too bad the family couldn't get a restraining order for the funeral.

I would find it very difficult as a father of a dead son not to go over to the picket and beat the living shit out of every single one of them.

Of course I agree with you on the emotional aspect of this, and if we are personally involved in it, such as being the father, then it is quite natural for us to want to act on that impulse.

But law and rights, and analyzing those events such as this are not to be judged from as a party with a personal interest in the case. The divorced party from the case without a preconceived thought on the matter is the one which is better suited for the thought exercise regarding it.

If someone is being prosecuted for defrauding someone, that person sure wouldn't want a judge and jury listening to the arguments who were all themselves victims of the same kind of fraud in the past.

[Tempestuous]

I wanna know what the connection between homosexuality and soldiers dieing is?

If you make broad generalizations/analogies like this there is not an sense to it. There is not a direct consequence for the action. No one is "learning a lesson" from a concept no one but this ONE group is making.

Basic principles say that your action has a direct reaction that correlates to what you did. I am not making the connection of how homosexuality = death in a war.

If "god" were punishing America for tolerating homosexuality, as WBC believes, wouldn't he destroy the practicer's & supporters of the act directly?
Why would he jump over here and kill soldiers for the acts of the offenders?

Wasn't it Sodom and Gomorrah which were directly destroyed for their practices.....not some other person/town, etc.

[DougP]

Hmm another church preaching hate.. nothing new here.:rolleyes: Seriously is their one, just maybe one church/ group out there that has something good to say about everyone? One that truly teaches their followers to love and understand everybody? Even homosexuals and soldiers? Or is it God's will to allow humans to continue to use his divine plan and message to distort others into breeding hate? Maybe it is.

[P_chan]

Baptist are crazy anyways:D

[Tempestuous]

Baptist are crazy anyways:D

:)
I have met quite a few baptist that were all in all decent people.
Though I have met a few that were "interesting" people as well :)

[Tempestuous]

Even other countries are jumpin in on this



Hanity & one of the Phelp daughters

[P_chan]

Yeah I know not all baptists are crazy. But where I'm from there is one of the biggest baptist churches in the nation. Probably about 70 to 80% are the crazy type.

[kombu_kid]

You would turn the day of mourning for your child into a violent occassion? Or make his passing end on one of revenge?

Yes, I would. Hey, they got the ball rolling, I would just make them really regret it. No guilt here, baby.

But law and rights, and analyzing those events such as this are not to be judged from as a party with a personal interest in the case. The divorced party from the case without a preconceived thought on the matter is the one which is better suited for the thought exercise regarding it.

Well, the jury was a divorced party who found the church guilty, although I don't really know how "inflicting emotional distress" is chargeable. And while we're on the subject of law and rights......

I would be in favor of a law banning organized religious indoctrination of all children under the age of 14. No public proselytizing to children under the age of 14 as well.

And you know how it is now against the law to use cute animals like camels to sell tobacco products? -- I would also say make it against the law to print religious indoctrination material in comic or cute forms of animals (e.g. Noah and the ark, Jesus being the kindly good shepherd carrying a lamb on his shoulder, etc...) to appeal to children.

People who think like this won't be happy until we have no rights. On another one of my posts I mentioned that these true believer activists never stop in their march, it's just one conquest after another. Today, a stupid picture of a camel makes more kids smoke, tomorrow just mentioning the word "cigarette" makes more kids smoke, so outlaw the word. Then it'll be Big Macs & fries, illegal to show Ronald McDonald....etc.

What a strange, drab, robot-like, 1984-ish world you crave.

[dk]

Hanity & one of the Phelp daughters (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UMP3AK5jwo)
I like to think that her words will be enough of a motivation for people to AT LEAST question the motives of any church they decide to join. I have no doubt that most religious organizations around the world are not nearly this harmful and hateful. People should go into every situation with an open mind and at least ensure that they are picking up a clear understanding of what is being represented by the churches they visit. Sure, they might be able to distinguish "the truth", but their children are just going to accept whatever is fed to them.

Sick so called Baptist Christians. These people represent no one except for their own twisted family and a few sick, twisted _____s who joined their congregation. That church is probably driving more people AWAY from religion.

As far as the comment about them being "Baptist", I have a feeling that probably stems more from their location and the branch of denomination the leader probably grew up before warping the religion to fit his agenda than anything. I grew up Baptist and have no real problem with Baptists other than issues I faced in every other denomination I was introduced to. The only thing I didn't like about Baptists was that they were so freaking conservative. Come on, hymns are what, 300 years old by now? Get a drum set. I met some freaky people in a non-denominational church as well. You can't put a denomination on something like this. These individuals just need to be kept in a padded room, or go through clockwork orange treatment.

[themadscientist]

Drop them into Fallujah and see if they can make it to the Kuwaiti border alive.

[Isaak Brodsky]

the westboro crowd appear to be quaalude-sedated ultra-orthodox numb-nuts.

[Fonze]

Drop them into Fallujah and see if they can make it to the Kuwaiti border alive.

You might as well drop them off in Mecca or even Karachi.

[Isaak Brodsky]

seriously l-ing ol.