National ID Cards

[Tanimaga]

The mandatory ID cards for American citizens apparently will be out next year.

http://www.americanpolicy.org/priv/main.htm

Any thoughts on this?

Many states in the US are plainly refusing to comply...


Don

[a_bjyrd]

I really dont like that Idea it really kinda scares me actually...like you are on a zap collar or something...Goverment sees all and hears all so lets go them, I would be afraid to sit on the toilet....

[themadscientist]

It scares you for good reason. I see people getting chipped in a mandatory fashion within a decade. They already have the technology but the American people are not scared and brainwashed enough yet to voluntarily play along. It will take a few years of marketing that this will make them safer and they will demand their "zap collars" as you so perfectly put it. 1984 man, it is going to happen, just a question of how long.

[Tanimaga]

Honestly, I was amazed when I went back to the US for the first time in 17 years. When topics such as this were brought up in conversations, people would actually get paranoid. "Don't say that where people can hear...!" was more commonplace than I felt comfortable with. Apparently, you shouldn't say anything about the government and it's policies..
I think that mindset alone speaks volumes.

[themadscientist]

big brother is watching. That is why I routinely go outside and give the finger for satellite photos. Let's get the NSA in on this discussion;

bomb, al queda, osama, ammonium nitrate, george bush, allah, civil liberties,

there that should do it :D

[dk]

Let's get the NSA in on this discussion;

bomb, al queda, osama, ammonium nitrate, george bush, allah, civil liberties,

there that should do it :D
Quoted for repetition.

Wonder if this is like saying "candyman" three times.

[themadscientist]

Why are their black helicopters circling my office?:scared:

[Muku]

Why are their black helicopters circling my office?:scared:

Those would be mine:army:

[dk]

Apparently, those black helicopters just bounce off my invisible forcefield. This is fun to watch.

[themadscientist]

the fuzzy dice on the rear-view mirror is a nice touch.:D

[socalheart]

This is one of those things that seems to have equally good and bad points to me. On one hand, it can be seen as keeping track of private citizens. On the other hand, it can be seen as taking care of private citizens. Sigh.

It seems that this ID card will have information on a person from birth, including but not limited to medical and credit info. This makes me nervous, because there are hi-tech criminals who'd love to have all that info at the click of a button. At the same time, it's convenient for medical info , which is really only useful in the case of universal healthcare, and verifying eligibilty to work. Perhaps they think the ID card will also help to weed out illegal immigrants.

All in all, I'm not bothered by the government wanting to consolidate my infomation into one card. I am against everything about my finances, personal history and medical information being on one card. I don't have anything to hide from the government. I do want to keep my info away from criminals though.

[Tanimaga]

Thanks guys.

Rahowa, Storm Front, White power

That should round things out nicely.


I agree about having the info on one card. It would be very convienent and speed up things when they work. I believe too much automation is a bad thing though. Technology is fickle, and doesn't always work the way it's intended. Putting all my sensitive eggs in one basket makes me nervous.

[Fonze]

I think that if you have nothing to hide you should'nt worry but that things might happen and the gov't needs to be checked on appropriate use of this power. Then again thats just bigger govt.

[themadscientist]

making a driver's license the ID should be adequate. As far as illegals they are easy to weed out if the government actually wanted to do that, they don't. They would however sincerly enjoy consolidating more power over legitimate citizens.

[Fonze]

Thanks guys.

Rahowa, Storm Front, White power

That should round things out nicely.


.

What does this have to do with the topic.

[themadscientist]

supporting this comment :D
big brother is watching. That is why I routinely go outside and give the finger for satellite photos. Let's get the NSA in on this discussion;

bomb, al queda, osama, ammonium nitrate, george bush, allah, civil liberties,

there that should do it :D

[Tanimaga]

Just rounding out all the watched keywords..

[Fonze]

10-4 roger over:thumbup1: you forget suicide bomber.

[ryukyuboi]

I am totally against a national ID card. The Federal government should not need more than a social security number. States could verify the authenticity of the social security number periodically by requiring citizens to prove in person that the number belongs to them - birth certificate, passport or any other recognized form of ID.

[ja_Patriot]

I'm not aware of the exact details but I've read reports that the information required won't be any more than what you'd need to get a passport.

No such nonsense as credit reports or information on this card.

It's a counter-measure against illegal aliens. Secure the borders, then identify who US citizens are. Non-citizen US residents already have the so-called green card.

If that's one of the steps that will take us out of a nightmare, I'm for it.


#

[kombu_kid]

As far as illegals they are easy to weed out if the government actually wanted to do that, they don't. They would however sincerly enjoy consolidating more power over legitimate citizens.

I totally agree with this statement. Our government probably feels we need way more unskilled workers to take over/take care of the boomers. Then make them legal so they can tax their asses and help bail out S.S. and Medicare.

Also, have you seen how vast the "underground economy" is? You know, all those transactions that fly under the radar and the gov't doesn't get their "cut"? (swap meets or just paying people cash "under the table") I think maybe cash's days are numbered as well; we're well on our way to that. It's kind of scary to think that when you're "chipped", there's almost no place to hide anymore.

Unless you wanna hang out with some tribe in the rainforest with the chickys with their boobies hanging down to their knees.

[Tanimaga]

Unless you wanna hang out with some tribe in the rainforest with the chickys with their boobies hanging down to their knees.

There's nothing about this sentence I don't like.

[ja_Patriot]

I totally agree with this statement. Our government probably feels we need way more unskilled workers to take over/take care of the boomers. Then make them legal so they can tax their asses and help bail out S.S. and Medicare.

Also, have you seen how vast the "underground economy" is? You know, all those transactions that fly under the radar and the gov't doesn't get their "cut"? (swap meets or just paying people cash "under the table") I think maybe cash's days are numbered as well; we're well on our way to that. It's kind of scary to think that when you're "chipped", there's almost no place to hide anymore.

Unless you wanna hang out with some tribe in the rainforest with the chickys with their boobies hanging down to their knees.

Just curious. What gov't "cut"?


#

[kombu_kid]

I'm always buying and selling stuff on Ebay and out of the local free paper, mostly bike and car parts. Of course, I don't pay sales tax or charge any when I make these transactions. If I'm dealing in the thousands on these transactions, and that's just me individually, can you imagine how much the government is losing out on in sales tax revenue? And they're well aware of this. They want their "cut".

Hookers, day laborers, backyard mechanics, swapmeet vendors etc., all those under-the-table transactions add up.

[Fonze]

Ya but these people also buy tons of stuff from taxed sources and pay taxes in the end. I think that is good.

[kombu_kid]

Yeah, that's true. But when let's say, you or me have to pay 25% of our paycheck to the government in income taxes, social security etc., that right there is a lot of money on top of us paying the sales tax and property tax (if you own a house).

If a daylaborer makes say, $1750 per month and pays 8% sales tax on everything he buys, that ain't a lot of contribution to the tax base IMO. Especially if you consider that maybe he had 2 or 3 children here, and their education and health care (and being born) easily runs in the 10's of thousands per year. They also qualify for food stamps and free meals for their kids in school, because they're low income. I guess the people who use daylaborers make out like bandits, like homebuilders, but the tab is being picked up by the taxpayers.

I'm really not trying to down daylaborers, they're just trying to make a better life for their family, and I respect their work ethic. It takes guts to come over here and hustle the way they do.

[themadscientist]

Here is my theory on the government and illegal immigrants. They like that illegals can take jobs away from middle class americans. It lowers costs for thier big corperate contributors and undercuts the strength of a class of citizens who represent a threat to thier goals, more power. A country of poor laborers, neutered middle class living in constant fear of becoming the previous and an elite upper class fully insulated from the other two is a dream. The people who represent the majority will be so preoccupied surviving they will not be interested in what the elites do. It's happening right in front of your eyes America, better get your game face on. :cursing:

[ryukyuboi]

My eyes don't see this conspriacy theory.

[themadscientist]

My eyes don't see this conspriacy theory.
History is populated by people who did not see what was coming, and suffered the consequences. Not everyone has eyes to see.

[Fonze]

Here is my theory on the government and illegal immigrants. They like that illegals can take jobs away from middle class americans. It lowers costs for thier big corperate contributors and undercuts the strength of a class of citizens who represent a threat to thier goals, more power. A country of poor laborers, neutered middle class living in constant fear of becoming the previous and an elite upper class fully insulated from the other two is a dream. The people who represent the majority will be so preoccupied surviving they will not be interested in what the elites do. It's happening right in front of your eyes America, better get your game face on. :cursing:

Would you do half the jobs illegals do? Probably not.

how many americans would? Probably very little.

[themadscientist]

Would you do half the jobs illegals do? Probably not.

how many americans would? Probably very little.
AH HA! That old chestnut. You have bought into that BS.
I have done half the jobs the illegals do. To say Americans won't do a certain job is complete and total BS. They did them before illegals showed up on the scene, what changed? There should be an asterix after that catchphrase. Americans won't do the jobs illegals do without proper compensation, health insurance, union representation and a retirement plan.
Americans expect to be fairly compensated for their labor, protected from unfair employer practices, provided a safe working environment and a plan for their later years. Illegals want to work, they shut up and take whatever they are given, the perfect laborer.
Illegals with their willingness to do menial tasks for chump change and no benefits undercut any power a middle class labor force would have to negotiate fair compensation. Now which Americans benefit here? This is also why there is an across-the-board outsourcing of labor and production to third world countries including China. Americans love it because it cuts production costs and makes things cheaper but what they are doing is supporting the loss of jobs of fellow Americans. It's all good to your job gets outsourced but by then it's too late.

[Fonze]

So blame it on americans and not illegals. Who's the real problem?

Also if Americans would why aren't they in the fields and in the factories there applying for these jobs and demanding better comp and demanding illegals out. Just cause you have don't mean the majority of americans would or will.

[themadscientist]

So blame it on americans and not illegals. Who's the real problem? Greedy American corperations and the Americans that believe the myth that Americans won't do labor.


Also if Americans would why aren't they in the fields and in the factories there applying for these jobs and demanding better comp and demanding illegals out. Just cause you have don't mean the majority of americans would or will.
You didn't really read what I posted did you?
Pay levels and benefits have been eroded over time by the steady influx of illegals into the workforce. People will not do any job for substandard pay and no benefits. You underestimate the American work ethic; Americans will work but they expect to be compensated. Business will not change these practices unless forced to, why should they? Their cost of goods is rediculously low, they would be stupid to pay Americans a fair wage with benefits when the government turns a blind eye to their use of illegal immigrant labor.
Illegal immigration will not be solved by a fence. It is not supply side push, it is demand side pull. If there were no jobs for them when they got here they would not come, no fence necessary. Until companies are held accountable for their dependance on illegal immigrant labor they will continue to operate as they have. If however the vacuum is turned off companies will have no choice but to pay Americans a fair wage and provide benefits. Then Americans will do these jobs.

[Fonze]

Now your in a little bit of lala land. I agree there needs to be a fix but If Americans that want these jobs for fair wage, where are they?

[themadscientist]

Now your in a little bit of lala land. I agree there needs to be a fix but If Americans that want these jobs for fair wage, where are they?
They are unemployed because these jobs are handed out to illegals from the back of a pickup truck at 6AM. Do you not pay attention?
How old are you? i have a legitamate reason for asking not tryinmg to insult you.

[Fonze]

wow they are unemployed cause illegal wow,BS. I'm 25 and I didn't mean the lala thing in disrespect to you.

Have you seen all the employement ads lately..

[themadscientist]

Not too young, you should not have trouble with the concept that Americans will work hard if fairly compensated. If you were 15, I don't know, I think I am getting too old, the younger generation doesn't impress me very much.
The "lala" thing doesn't offend me, I got it. :)
I used to do roofing and general construction. That is hard work, in the weather and in constant danger. I was paid well for my labor and had benefits available to me. Hard work is not a problem for most people under these conditions. Over time I watched the faces change and their pay was not equivalent and they had no benefits. Were I to go back now I would expect to find ALL workers offered that arrangement. A person would be stupid to do that kind of work for no compensation but an illegal would.
Let's look at the UAW which is often maligned as a detriment. Auto worker have a strong union and they can fight against the company. They have great pay and benefits by comparison. They bolt cars together, very dirty manual labor but people would kill to do those jobs. Because they are compensated. Cost for products is artificially deflated by illegal labor and offshore outsourcing. Chinese products continue to demonstrate their danger but will Americans on the whole do anything about it? Of course not, they like Walmart cheap prices. Similarly as long as their jobs are not immediately threatened many Americans will turn a blind eye to the use of illegal immigrant labor in "the jobs Americans won't do" sector. Well that's where it starts. Next comes entry level white collar work. Tried calling tech support for, hell, anything recently? Get an American? Good luck, you will likely be talking to some dude in India. Now lets go after skilled labor and devalue them as well. Before too long you have a work force that is completely incapable of pressing for improvements to their situation for fear of being replaced by some guy who will take anything. The only people who win are Government and corperations. I'm sorry you can't understand that, you are not alone. That is why America is in it's death throes. We had a good run but all great civilizations eventually fall apart. We are just unfortunate to be the generation that gets to ride it on the way down.

[ja_Patriot]

I'm always buying and selling stuff on Ebay and out of the local free paper, mostly bike and car parts. Of course, I don't pay sales tax or charge any when I make these transactions. If I'm dealing in the thousands on these transactions, and that's just me individually, can you imagine how much the government is losing out on in sales tax revenue? And they're well aware of this. They want their "cut".

Hookers, day laborers, backyard mechanics, swapmeet vendors etc., all those under-the-table transactions add up.


kombu kid,

Death and Taxes. These are the only two things certain in life, as you may know.

The government already has its "cut". Everyone (incl hookers, day laborers, etc..) pays sales taxes (consumables, services) , federal excise taxes (gas, tobacco, liquor, telephone), property & school tax, road tax, car reg., doc. stamps, etc..

Sure people can barter or sell stuff for non-commercial purposes without sales tax authorization. Key is "non-commercial". Sell your dirt bike to cousin Tom for $1, no problem. Sell your car to Uncle John for $50 fine but if he wants to transfer title, guess what, he pays tax (reg, road, etc.).

For Ebay & the internet, the US Supreme Court is on our side at it has exempted most internet and mail order firms from collecting state and local sales taxes. However, Congress has the ability to change that situation, but that I feel is going to be a long debate for many reasons.


#

[Fonze]

Alot of these pickup companies are either independent workers or small businesses that can't afford to give the comp you ask. Yes there are big corps that do hire illegals but the majority aren't. I see what you are saying but don't agree fully just partly. UAW is protecting people but for what to watch the big 3 go down the drain. Toyota and Honda are thriving in america and they have good benefits, I have family that works for them.

[themadscientist]

Yeah those are some lean and mean companies. I think they may be the example for the future. Kind of ironin they learned it from us :rolleyes:

[Fonze]

I believe they should allow the illegals to come out ,give them a path to citizenship,lock the border down at least for a couple years while these here get rounded up and tagged. Those who are criminals got to go and then when a cop ask you for proof you got to show it just in case you were one of the criminals that didn't come out.

Oh and then any new illegals are automatically given the boot they got to go through the legit process.

[Jrocka83]

"In 2005, Congress passed the Real ID Act, a "counter-terrorism" measure recommended by the 9/11 commission."

"While the VeriChip may not be the Antichrist's "mark of the Beast," it is a giant step in that direction."
http://www.spychips.com/blog/VeriChip%20Home%20Again%20chip%20rice%20and%20dime .jpg

"Cameras everywhere, national ID cards, global positioning satellites (GPS), microchips implanted under the skin. The latest sci-fi?--No, just topics that now routinely appear in the news. In fact, many of them are no longer news. One particular development, however, warrants keeping an eye on."


"The All Seeing eye"
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Illuminati/dollar_ase.gif

“He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.”

[themadscientist]

I believe they should allow the illegals to come out ,give them a path to citizenship,lock the border down at least for a couple years while these here get rounded up and tagged. Those who are criminals got to go and then when a cop ask you for proof you got to show it just in case you were one of the criminals that didn't come out.

Oh and then any new illegals are automatically given the boot they got to go through the legit process.

Reagan administration did that once before. How many times do we have to try the same thing before we acknowledge it doesn't work?

[Fonze]

he didn't lock it down and make it a must for citizens to prove they are here legally. And for you to say it did'nt work is false cause my parents benefited and are now middle income taxpayers with children all puting into this country.