Why are people so f-ing sensitive these days? [Archive]

atb35

10-17-2007, 07:04 AM

I just read a different post where typing Jap is innapropriate...you have to type Jp, or spell it out instead. I understand this, and I wouldnt use the former because I know people get butthurt when Im not 100% PC...ooops, Politically Correct (dont want to offend any liberals) all the time. I am not saying anything bad about the person specifically that stated that either, this is just a general question.

What the f-k do people get so hurt over words for? THEY ARE WORDS!! I could give a rats ass less if someone walks up to me and calls me a fat bald ugly WOP!! umm, ok, well have a nice day. How on earth did that effect me? oooooh, my feelings were hurt...fu-k that, people need to grow a pair and quit being babies.

words are words, they cannot hurt you, the problem is everyone is treated like a f-king panzy (no offense to the botanical rights activists) from the time they are born these days. I just wish other parents would raise their children to have thick skin, then they wouldnt get all offended when someone happens to say the wrong thing out of anger or spell something incorrectly.

DoctorP

10-17-2007, 07:07 AM

lol...good way to start the day! Don't get your blood pressure checked anytime soon, ok!

atb35

10-17-2007, 07:36 AM

Haha, you know though, I have to thank my ex for my lack of high blood pressure. Getting kicked to the curb after 13 years of marriage made me realize that hell, if I have no control over the outcome of something, I dont worry about it.

Yeah, things upset me, but they only upset me for about 10 mins, then Im fine.

DocTurtle

10-17-2007, 08:16 AM

Sometimes it's you will find it's not the affected people that are the sensitive ones. More often then not, I've found that it's people that are trying to be sensitive for other people that get offended. Like the one southpark episode with the nurse with the dead fetus on her head. Remember that one?

atb35

10-17-2007, 08:21 AM

I understand what your saying, but Im talking about the people who are offended by words. Like that one actor who said something about fags...and got fired for it (maybe not, I dont follow stupid ass dramas). That is retarded (no offense mentally challenged folks). I never understood why people get hurt, to the point of tears from being called names....

themadscientist

10-17-2007, 08:26 AM

It helps if you remember it doesn't matter how you intend a word it is how it is received. Certain words are charged and without being in a very specific situation could almost always be perceived as negative. "Jap" has absolutely no positive definition so I never use it. I am not too fond of being called "cracka" as I am respectful enough not to use any counter deragatory term. I don't lose any sleep over it but much like yourself I have better things to do with my time than walk around waiting to be offended. I do find it illogical why black people call each other "nigga". That word is probably one of the most hate-driven words and to embrace it and try to take ownership of it on the surface might seem like a good way to diffuse it but I think has the opposite effect as it keeps it in circulation, almost acceptable. I call all my black freinds "my cracka" as a fun unoffensive way to point it out. Never fails to get a laugh. It's fun because I am white, very white, Irish, don't come much whiter than that unless your name is Sven. Now if a guy of another race were to say it to me it could be difficult to determine it's intent so I get the tipping point as to who I guess "gets to use" certain words. Basically if a word has no real positive meaning trying to somehow exorcise the hate from it is a very difficult thing so probably best just to not use it.

Muku

10-17-2007, 08:45 AM

Certain words are charged and without being in a very specific situation could almost always be perceived as negative. "Jap" has absolutely no positive definition so I never use it.

People are going to be sensitive to words no matter or not if you think they should or shouldn't be. Look what Isiah Thomas said to the black woman that worked for the Knicks organization. Paraphrasing here, he made the comment that when a black man calls a woman a btich it carries a different meaning than if a white man said the same thing. That's just a word too.

You wrote here you never used it, yet in another thread you did, it is offensive for a number of reasons and since this is a message board about Japan and Okinawa I for one would think that people posting here would be more sensitive to use of words like this.

It isnt just about political correctness either imo, its about using words that are racist or could be seen as being such.

I am not calling you racist nor do I or have I ever thought that you were one

I do not know how old you are or what generation that you or your parents grew up in but I can tell you from my experience that there is no "good" connotation connected with the word. I also feel that it is a generational thing as well. Younger people are not aware of the meaning behind it's use. That doesnt make it right, nor wrong, just a lack of information about it's usage.

Sometimes it's you will find it's not the affected people that are the sensitive ones. More often then not, I've found that it's people that are trying to be sensitive for other people that get offended.
I agree with this statement as I have gound that the people that an offensive word is directed towards often have closed their ears to it and have learned one way or another to let it go. However to others that are sensitive to it's or any words use fights occur.

I call all my black freinds "my cracka" as a fun unoffensive way to point it out. Never fails to get a laugh. It's fun because I am white, very white, Irish, don't come much whiter than that unless your name is Sven.
Myself as well, yet whether it be a joke or otherwise I doubt you would say that to someone you didnt know right?

It's the same as using the word Jap instead of Japanese. You are saying it to an audience that doesnt know you. Even though there was no intention of being racist or discriminatory.

Good topic by the way, I think it's great to have people here both lurkers and people who participate as well to learn about differences in the use of words and language. :D

Muku

10-17-2007, 08:49 AM

atb35

10-17-2007, 09:10 AM

You know I was raised to believe that words can not hurt you, but as I have gotten older I have come to realize that no matter how thick or thin your skin is words do hurt. There are too many times I have seen things that I have said that have caused people pain and discomfort.

[/QUOTE]I have come to realize that no matter how thick or thin your skin is words do hurt[/QUOTE] This is kinda my point, why are people such wusses now?

Sure, when you string together words like, "I hate you and dont ever talk to me again" from someone you care about, that hurts. When someone is directing a negative comment at you, yes, it hurts your feelings, but it isnt the word that is hurtful, it is the intention of the person saying them.

I just think people in general should not be so damn sensitive. They are just words, if it is directed in a negative manner, then be mad at the intent, not the words using to convey that intent. Is there a difference between saying, "You worthless fuc-ing cracka!!" and "You worthless fuc-ing caucasion!!" ??

[/QUOTE]Heck even on this board people have been hurt by just words....just ask Coldnoodles.:D[/QUOTE]

That is an example of someone getting butthurt when they realized they were dead wrong.

themadscientist

10-17-2007, 09:16 AM

People are going to be sensitive to words no matter or not if you think they should or shouldn't be. Look what Isiah Thomas said to the black woman that worked for the Knicks organization. Paraphrasing here, he made the comment that when a black man calls a woman a btich it carries a different meaning than if a white man said the same thing. That's just a word too.

I heard something about that on the news but they didn't quote it, that pretty messed up. I did hear there was a lot of backlash over what he said which is good. Hate and disrespect is the same no matter what.

You wrote here you never used it, yet in another thread you did, it is offensive for a number of reasons and since this is a message board about Japan and Okinawa I for one would think that people posting here would be more sensitive to use of words like this.

It isnt just about political correctness either imo, its about using words that are racist or could be seen as being such.

me?

I am not calling you racist nor do I or have I ever thought that you were one

I do not know how old you are or what generation that you or your parents grew up in but I can tell you from my experience that there is no "good" connotation connected with the word. I also feel that it is a generational thing as well. Younger people are not aware of the meaning behind it's use. That doesnt make it right, nor wrong, just a lack of information about it's usage.

I agree with this statement as I have gound that the people that an offensive word is directed towards often have closed their ears to it and have learned one way or another to let it go. However to others that are sensitive to it's or any words use fights occur.

Myself as well, yet whether it be a joke or otherwise I doubt you would say that to someone you didnt know right?

Only among my freinds. As I said words like that are dangerous to use in all but the most specific circumstances. When in doubt best to err on the side of decorum.

It's the same as using the word Jap instead of Japanese. You are saying it to an audience that doesnt know you. Even though there was no intention of being racist or discriminatory.

Good topic by the way, I think it's great to have people here both lurkers and people who participate as well to learn about differences in the use of words and language. :D

Things like this are hard to discuss and it's really sad that after hundreds of years people are still fixated on something so trivial as race. :(
Just being a human is hard enough without adding preventable friction over something like that.

a_bjyrd

10-17-2007, 09:29 AM

themadscientist

10-17-2007, 09:35 AM

Muku

10-17-2007, 09:48 AM

me?
All apologizes to TheMadScientist...no it wasnt you that was my mistake. Sorry about that:o:o:o

Fonze

10-17-2007, 09:52 AM

I am prejudice but across the board equally. Sometimes more to my own race than others. I know now that the word Jap offends but learned only through Muku. My thing is that Jap doesn't mean anything but shortened for Japan. Now Japs I could someonewhat see some offense but still a shortened word. Why is not offensive to call Okinawans Oki's as I have before?

To me an offensive name towards Japanese would be "slant eyes or yellow skin, or Nips" , but now now Jap is also an offensive word. Maybe an older generational one though.

P_chan

10-17-2007, 09:55 AM

I am prejudice but across the board equally

So you hate everyone equally?

atb35

10-17-2007, 09:57 AM

At the risk of stirring something up I am insightful enough to admit I am racist. I don't like to be around people from the middle east. World events and a few personal experiences have caused this feeling in me.
Here is the important point and where I think things get out of hand. While I feel this very strongly I do understand that no matter what reasons I may have for feeling this way it is not right and it is my problem. When I am around a person who triggers these feelings in me I keep it to myself. It is not that person's fault for what goes on in my head, it's all me. I have tried to stop thinking that way, it is a source of great inner embarassment, but it stays. I try very hard to never let it out because I am lucky enough to be aware of it and keep it in check. I like to think I am a pretty fair person so to have such a thought is very frustrating. I think everyone has something like that they wrestle with, whatever group it may be. The difference is some people don't see anything wrong with giving that thought voice, on acting upon that. I missed the whole thing with Noodles but I think I get the gist of it; an example of not checking ones self.

I know exactly what you mean. While Im white and come from a very poor family, I cant stand them. I am very prejudice against poor people in general. I have no tolerance for them (unless they are trying to make a better life for themselves). This used to be a huge discussion between my ex and I because for whatever reason, she liked to have friends that were poor white trash...I hated it. I would never do anything with them and like you, this was all me. There was nothing wrong with these people, it was just I had a personal issue with them.

Yeah they are just words but words are like a tool. Think of a wrench, it is a tool and a good metaphor. You can take a wrench and fix your car. You can conversely take that same wrench and damage your car. It's just a word but if instead of using it to express something positive somebody uses it to expess something negative it can hurt.

This was a great example of just what I said. If your intent was to fix a car with a wrench, you could. If your intent was to damage it, you would. It is not the tool that does the damage, it is the intent.

Fonze

10-17-2007, 09:59 AM

So you hate everyone equally?

If they are stupid yes.

themadscientist

10-17-2007, 10:27 AM

Why is not offensive to call Okinawans Oki's as I have before?
Because "oki" means "big" in Japanese and the guy thinks you are complimenting his equipment :D
I kid, I kid

DocTurtle

10-17-2007, 10:48 AM

Because "oki" means "big" in Japanese and the guy thinks you are complimenting his equipment :D
I kid, I kid

Lol!!!:w00t::w00t:

DougP

10-17-2007, 02:27 PM

Everyone has their own idea of what is offensive and what is not. Now to some using the term Jap is a big deal and others may think its no big deal. I look at it like this. Think about where you are. You may think its stupid to get offended at words and words alone. But those words carry meanings. And they mean a great deal to some people. Just like the American flag means a great deal to me and I get offended when I watch someone else burn it. To me it means something to others its just a flag.

Now also try to look at it like this. Using the term Jap on an Okinawan based forum may not seem like a big deal to you. So in that sense I suppose its ok for me to use profane language and racial slurs around other peoples children.l Not necessarily the same thing but what if I don't find cussing around kids to be offensive? What if I roll my eyes at people who get offended by me saying colorful four letter words around their little ones? "Ah come on don't get your panties in a bunch."

I think its more about situational awareness than being PC. You wouldn't run up into the middle of the million man march yelling out the N word would you?

atb35

10-17-2007, 02:35 PM

I think its more about situational awareness than being PC. You wouldn't run up into the middle of the million man march yelling out the N word would you?

I wouldnt because I know most people are over sensitive puss..ies.

themadscientist

10-17-2007, 04:54 PM

DougP

10-17-2007, 05:08 PM

I'm sure the thousands of Japanese Americans that were detained during WWII aren't very fond of the word Jap either. I'm sure if you think about it everybody is offended by something sooner or later. That's when making a comment like "Get over it, stop whining." comes back to bite you in the ass.:D

atb35

10-17-2007, 05:10 PM

well with that word it probably invokes memories of that words use by people in the past who treated their ancestors as property. I think they have the right to get a bit pissed. Conversely if I extend the courtesy of not using hateful words to them I expect the same in return.

True, that word invokes hate and discrimination...I bet that is why you could find it in half of the lyrics of rap songs......

DougP

10-17-2007, 05:12 PM

True, that word invokes hate and discrimination...I bet that is why you could find it in half of the lyrics of rap songs......

Yeah I gotta admit I don't see the logic in that as well.:thumbdown:

Skiman1969

10-17-2007, 06:23 PM

My wife is German and the Germans call Americans "Amei's" for short. I could give a shit less, I am not offended, it is just a short version of American's. I call British people Brits and they don't get offended and the call us Yanks. That stems back to a Dutch word for colonist in America. SO F**king what! People are so F**king sensitive these days! It pisses me off!

I have been in the AF for almost 18 years, and worked with the other services and from other countries! The AF has become a "Puss-A-Fide Force". So many people are worried about what you say or do offends them or someone else, our job is to kill with Nukes, bombs and missiles and this is ok. But if you use the word "F**K" in a sentence to some of these "pencil pushers" this is considered unprofessional and offensive. Kiss my ass! What the hell kind rational is this? Sorry, but both my parents were from NY and this is the way many New Yorkers including my parents talk. Many of us are in the military, in this forum and many of our jobs basically deal with some sort weapon system for killing, we are not in the Peace Corps!

I do agree that certain words do degrade people ethnic origin but a shorten word for a countries people shouldn't.

I am sure what I have said might get some panties in a bunch, but I am speaking my mind. This is why we are in this why we are here.

Bones

10-17-2007, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by Skiman1969:

I have been in the AF for almost 18 years, and worked with the other services and from other countries! The AF has become a "Puss-A-Fide Force". So many people are worried about what you say or do offends them or someone else, our job is to kill with Nukes, bombs and missiles and this is ok. But if you use the word "F**K" in a sentence to some of these "pencil pushers" this is considered unprofessional and offensive. Kiss my ass! What the hell kind rational is this? Sorry, but both my parents were from NY and this is the way many New Yorkers including my parents talk. Many of us are in the military, in this forum and many of our jobs basically deal with some sort weapon system for killing, we are not in the Peace Corps!

After having read your post, I have to wonder about what rank is pasted on your sleeve, Ski?

Actually, from what I've observed, life in the Air Force has become more difficult for those serving now. Physical fitness standard levels have continually increased, personell rating systems have been improved, automating a lot of the tasks that used to be handled by actual people, needs a heck of a lot of work. Try making an appointment, and getting caught in a serious loop of number pushing, without actually being able to talk a living person. :thumbdown:

our job is to kill with Nukes, bombs and missiles and this is ok.

Close, but your job is to maintain the efficiency of your unit, so that you will be able to do just that, if your unit is called upon by a "Higher Authority", to perform that duty.

It is not ok, to nuke, kill, or maim people, just because you have the capability to do so.

Personally, as it relates to foul language, it has it's place. And it should be confined to the working environment "e.g: when you're at work and something happens....".

Don't need to hear it at the BX, won't subject friends, or family members to it.

If your only reason for you to talk the way that you do, is a family issue, counseling is available. Or a trip to the "Education Office", is in order.

I've been all over the world as well, and one of the skills that I've learned, is treating people, like people. They are no different than you are, they just live in a different country. Customs may vary, but they are facing the same issues as we do, with the added burden of having to support our forces.

Drop the name calling, drop the foul language, treat the people whom you happen to be dealing with, with respect.

NBTP

Muku

10-17-2007, 08:45 PM

I think its more about situational awareness than being PC. You wouldn't run up into the middle of the million man march yelling out the N word would you?

Yet from that majority of posters here I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to.:D

Look my point about the word Jap in particular is something that I would be willing to bet many people here are or were unaware of. Coming from the US people are more attune to words and terminology that is generally speaking generic to the USA. Not using the "N" word or calling a homosexual a "fag" among many others as well.

It wasnt too long ago that the words "Nip's" and "Jap's" had a rebirth of being used in a deragatory manner when the Japanese economy exploded and people started the push to "Buy American".

Like I wrote before because we are on a Japanese island and participating on a forum that has the word Japan in it's title showing a bit of respect for the people and the country we are in is all that I am asking.

Muku

10-17-2007, 08:50 PM

Drop the name calling, drop the foul language, treat the people whom you happen to be dealing with, with respect.

Well said, I think however that some people dont know how not to use foul language when they talk and are uncomfortable not using it.

I think that also happens to come from the manner or environment that they were raised.

I am almost getting the impression here that some people are mixing two different "problems" into one. Making comments or using words that could be racially charged is one thing. Using foul language is another and I think the two should be looked at separately.

Sure on occasion I will use profanity as an expletive, however I make sure what company I am in. I will also say however that I am usually rather uncomfortable using profanity when I talk. That's just the way I was raised. I personally dont see a need for it in daily conversation however.

Bones

10-17-2007, 10:13 PM

Originally posted by Muku:

I am almost getting the impression here that some people are mixing two different "problems" into one. Making comments or using words that could be racially charged is one thing. Using foul language is another and I think the two should be looked at separately.

I don't think so. In a family environment, neither one is called for. In a shopping environment, it's not called for either, since the members of your family are shopping at that particular store while you are at work.

Either way, name calling, or using foul language in public, are the same thing. Some people just don't want to hear it.

I could cuss up a storm if I'm so inclined, but if I'm in your home while I"m doing so, with wife/kids present, my stay would probably be short lived.

If we can practice that kind of discipline at home, why is it such a bother in public?

NBTP

Muku

10-17-2007, 10:18 PM

Originally posted by Muku:

I don't think so. In a family environment, neither one is called for. In a shopping environment, it's not called for either, since the members of your family are shopping at that particular store while you are at work.

Either way, name calling, or using foul language in public, are the same thing. Some people just don't want to hear it.

I could cuss up a storm if I'm so inclined, but if I'm in your home while I"m doing so, with wife/kids present, my stay would probably be short lived.

If we can practice that kind of discipline at home, why is it such a bother in public?

NBTP

I think you and I are reading from the same book here just different chapters.:D

Boost

10-17-2007, 10:50 PM

Here is an interesting article I found related to the subject...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,302528,00.html

'Swearing' at Work Eases Stress, Boosts Team Spirit, Study Says

Having a bad day at the office? Let off a few expletives, it'll ease stress and boost camaraderie, according to a new study.
Researchers at University of East Anglia in Norwich, U.K. conducting a leadership study found the use of "taboo language" made the workplace more tolerable, according to Australia's Daily Telegraph.

Skiman1969

10-18-2007, 12:45 AM

Originally posted by Skiman1969:

After having read your post, I have to wonder about what rank is pasted on your sleeve, Ski?

Actually, from what I've observed, life in the Air Force has become more difficult for those serving now. Physical fitness standard levels have continually increased, personell rating systems have been improved, automating a lot of the tasks that used to be handled by actual people, needs a heck of a lot of work. Try making an appointment, and getting caught in a serious loop of number pushing, without actually being able to talk a living person. :thumbdown:

Close, but your job is to maintain the efficiency of your unit, so that you will be able to do just that, if your unit is called upon by a "Higher Authority", to perform that duty.

It is not ok, to nuke, kill, or maim people, just because you have the capability to do so.

Personally, as it relates to foul language, it has it's place. And it should be confined to the working environment "e.g: when you're at work and something happens....".

Don't need to hear it at the BX, won't subject friends, or family members to it.

If your only reason for you to talk the way that you do, is a family issue, counseling is available. Or a trip to the "Education Office", is in order.

I've been all over the world as well, and one of the skills that I've learned, is treating people, like people. They are no different than you are, they just live in a different country. Customs may vary, but they are facing the same issues as we do, with the added burden of having to support our forces.

Drop the name calling, drop the foul language, treat the people whom you happen to be dealing with, with respect.

NBTP

WTF??? First off it is not like I go around looking for families and kids to curse around or at. Or use curses every minute of the day. Yes I got a foul mouth occasionally and I do know when and where to use it. I work aircraft maintenance it is not "flowers and rainbows", we tend to eat our own, if you know what I mean. All I am saying about cursing is some folks for example Admin, get all huffy when you use the work "F**k" in their presence. This even in the "my" work section. Then the same person will in turn talk shit behind your back never say anything me that it offended him and report you to his supervisor. "F**K", it's a just a "word" that has many different meanings. O'yea, some of the best ass-chewings (which have included many colorful metaphors) I have witnessed have been by Colonels and Generals, they lay it on real good and no one complains about what words they used! I wonder why?

After living outside of the US most of my life I came to a conclusion, us as Americans have some really screwed up morals and beliefs. First off we will put on TV even "AFN" during the day, the most violent shows possible and let our kids watch it. Then in turn we flip out after seeing a nipple! WTF??? You can walk into a Wal-Mart or Kmart, buy a high powered rifle or shotgun and ammo for it but if you want to buy pepper spray it is illegal. WTF?? You can serve your country and die for it at 18, but can't drink a beer till 21. WTF??? I have had many Europeans ask me questions like this. I really don't have much of an answer for them.

Maku- If you say it is not good to "Jap" to refer to Japanese people then I won't use it. Thanks for letting us know this. I don't to start a big pissing contest before I get to the island.

ja_Patriot

10-18-2007, 01:00 AM

Racial slurs hurt and there are people you'd never care to deal with.

It's easy to be an egoist and a macho man. Wtf's the big deal kinda thing.

Then one day, the lady who helps your aging mother is a kind African-American.

The person who handle the wife's citizenship was Hispanic.

You live in Africa among other places and the Africans and people elsewhere considered you as family.

Your son's best friends in school who watched his back were White, and Hispanic and Asian and one of them who invited him wholeheartedly to stay at their place over one summer was a fellow by the name of Mohamed.

Your other son's best buddies in the Army are African-American and of Korean-descent. He's EOD so you count on those guys on the team to keep your son safe. And of course he's half Japanese.

Who're you calling Jap again? Could be the guy who'd save your ass or be kind to your family one day.

Racial slurs are best avoided. Nothing to do with being sensitive. It's just the decent thing to do.

#

Boost

10-18-2007, 06:59 AM

words are words, they cannot hurt you

Words are not just words, words are a physical or outward manifestation of what is in a person’s heart. That is why words can have the ability to hurt like the sting from a punch, especially if they are coming from someone you respect, love, or care about. So yes, they can and do hurt you even if you refuse to acknowledge it when it happens. Or as it sounds in your case, you turn that hurt into anger and express it that way. Either way, the emotion comes out one way or another.

atb35

10-18-2007, 07:50 AM

Words are not just words, words are a physical or outward manifestation of what is in a person’s heart. That is why words can have the ability to hurt like the sting from a punch, especially if they are coming from someone you respect, love, or care about. So yes, they can and do hurt you even if you refuse to acknowledge it when it happens. Or as it sounds in your case, you turn that hurt into anger and express it that way. Either way, the emotion comes out one way or another.

Nothing against you or what you believe...but BS! Words are words. As I have stated, it is the intent that hurts, not the words themselves. To prove this....

A woman is having sex with a man. She says in a hot passionate voice as she is riding him, "Oh I love your HUGE penis!", the guy is actually going to feel pretty good about himself. Same scenerio except, "Oh I love your tiny penis!"...that same guy will still feel pretty damn good about himself even though both words mean exactly the opposite. The intent of the woman was that she was in ecstasy, the words from her mouth made no difference. (just to note...yes, I understand some men with low self esteem might still be butthurt because she said tiny, but he is a moron, the girl is in ecstasy, even with his two inches of fury!)

So, are words just words or is it the intent behind them?

thistle

10-18-2007, 09:19 AM

When I was still a teenager, we used to sometimes hire a bus to go up to the big city to go to concerts, I remember one time people in the bus, shouting at some Pakistani's, 'hey Paki's'. I felt so embarrased to be sitting in that bus.
How do you think those guys felt by those words....

It is the same for using 'Jap' for us 'gaijin', for american's 'yank'.

They are all slang, using them does not make us feel good.

Muku

10-18-2007, 09:39 AM

Nothing against you or what you believe...but BS! Words are words. As I have stated, it is the intent that hurts, not the words themselves.

Sure but the two are one in the same. If the words weren't used then would the same "intent" come across to the listener? In my opinion I boubt it.

I follow your point about them just being words and I used to think the same thing until I saw people hurt because of the words used, however there was no intent to cause pain when they were used, however the listener felt otherwise. How many times have we all experienced good intentions going wrong?

Noone can take into account how a person is going to receive or take what is being said. That is why in my opinion we have to be more careful not to use language that could possibly offend or hurt the listener.

A woman is having sex with a man. She says in a hot passionate voice as she is riding him, "Oh I love your HUGE penis!", the guy is actually going to feel pretty good about himself. Same scenerio except, "Oh I love your tiny penis!"...that same guy will still feel pretty damn good about himself even though both words mean exactly the opposite. The intent of the woman was that she was in ecstasy, the words from her mouth made no difference. (just to note...yes, I understand some men with low self esteem might still be butthurt because she said tiny, but he is a moron, the girl is in ecstasy, even with his two inches of fury!)

Ok but both women could be liars as well, the first one no wanting to pop the buys bubble when he was actually tearing her apart with pain. And the second guy she was just teasing to make him feel better. The intent was to make one side "feel" better, but the reality could be very different.

Interesting analogy btw.:D

atb35

10-18-2007, 09:45 AM

Sure but the two are one in the same. If the words weren't used then would the same "intent" come across to the listener? In my opinion I boubt it.

I follow your point about them just being words and I used to think the same thing until I saw people hurt because of the words used, however there was no intent to cause pain when they were used, however the listener felt otherwise. How many times have we all experienced good intentions going wrong?

Noone can take into account how a person is going to receive or take what is being said. That is why in my opinion we have to be more careful not to use language that could possibly offend or hurt the listener.

Ok but both women could be liars as well, the first one no wanting to pop the buys bubble when he was actually tearing her apart with pain. And the second guy she was just teasing to make him feel better. The intent was to make one side "feel" better, but the reality could be very different.

Interesting analogy btw.:D

That is my point entirely. People shouldnt get so f-ing butthurt over words..they are just words. I KNOW people are sensitive and take offense over words, regardless of the meaning...that is what frustrates me. The only reason those words are hurtful is because the people that are offended by them give those words power. If nobody was offended by the word nigga...it would lose meaning. Right now it is conveyed by racist people with a negative connotation. If nobody ever took offense to it, the racist would stop using it (yes, a pipe dream I know, but im just saying...).

Im not denying that people do take offense to words, Im not saying words arent hurtful...the point of the thread is that I am wondering why? Why do people get hurt when they are just words. The only answer I can come up with is because of the way they were raised in combination to how weak emotionally our society is these days.

ja_Patriot

10-18-2007, 10:17 AM

I see where you're going with this.

By hurt you mean physical pain inflicted, whereas words are just air passing through your mouth to the ears of your listener, therefore no physical bruises evident.

Any reaction by the listener to your words, you consider as sensitive.

Let's see how sensitive you are in the various aspects of words reaching your ears:

"You've won the Lotto. Really!"

"You kid got hurt badly in the ball park, go call an ambulance!"

"Your mother died today!"

Honest reaction? The first one would be - Ooookay! The last two would - bad joke.

Now if words are justs words, call up your mom or daughter or wife or sister and tell each one over the phone, "Your a fxxxxx whore with a dxxx pxxxx and I don't want to ever talk to you again, you cxxxx."

Just words, huh. No black eyes, no bruises.

Words may not cause physical pain, but they can cause mental pain and anguish, which most of the time hurts just as much or even worse than physical pain.

Words are so powerful, sometimes it even hurts just to think or say them.

#

atb35

10-18-2007, 10:39 AM

No, I mean that words SHOULDNT hurt at all...physically or mentally. It is the intent behind the words that hurt.

"You've won the Lotto. Really!"
If I say this all excited and happy, you would be inclined to believe me, if I say it sarcastically, you would say...bullshit. Exact same words, two entirely different intents.

The whole reason I started this was because someone posted the word jap. He meant NOTHING negative about it, was just using it a shortened version of Japanese. My point is, why do people get hung up on the word rather then the intent? Again, I KNOW it has negative connotations...and there in lies the problem, but it shouldnt. If people would pay more attention to the intent of words, rather then just what the words are, maybe our society wouldnt be such oversensitive babies.

Skiman1969

10-18-2007, 12:27 PM

It is the same for using 'Jap' for us 'gaijin', for american's 'yank'.

They are all slang, using them does not make us feel good.

Who the hell gets offended buy "yank" O MY GOD? I can't believe some Americans really get offended by Yank? What is so bad about being called a Yank? I know some southerns out there might bring up the The War of Northern Aggression a.k.a. The Civil War, and there are not yanks, but the term references Americans in general. Let me be the first one to start handing out the Tampax. SO WHAT! People have nothing else to worry about than being called a yank!

gaijin- Doesn't that mean foreigner in Japanese. Please, correct me if I am wrong. And why is this so bad? Is this a word that only Japanese speakers can use and English speakers not? Don't we call foreigner's, foreigner's in English? Or is now foreigner a bad word?

People What the hell has happened to America and even the world? We get worked up over such trivial BS. There is much more important things going on than worrying about silly crap like this!

Muku

10-18-2007, 12:42 PM

gaijin- Doesn't that mean foreigner in Japanese. Please, correct me if I am wrong. And why is this so bad? Is this a word that only Japanese speakers can use and English speakers not? Don't we call foreigner's, foreigner's in English? Or is now foreigner a bad word?

Depending on the sensitivities of the audience here the word 外人 or gaijin in Japanese literally means "outside person" 外 meaning outside and 人　meaning person. And as you may know it used by Japanese to talk about people other than themselves, meaning foreigners.

Even if Japanese people go overseas where they are the foreigner's, they will often use the word , 外人 to describe the people of the country they are in, very few will ever recognize themselves as being 外人.

And yes to some foreigners living here in Japan the word is extremely, offensive and prefer/demand that Japanese call them or refer to them only as
外国人　which means 外　outside 国　country 人　person, or a person from another country.

Semantics yes, but to some a very important difference, and it isnt just Americans that get upset when this word is used to describe them but people from many other places as well.

thistle

10-18-2007, 01:01 PM

I have no idea if American's get offended by being called a 'yank', I just threw it in there.

Whether the term 'gaijin' is slang, racist whatever has been talked about a lot, on other Japan forums.

The fact of the matter is that the correct word is 'gaikokujin' and though I certainly don't believe in any way people calling me a 'gaijin' is racist and that is just the word they have grown up using 'gaijin'.
I still don't like to hear it, I don't let it bother me, but I usually correct people,
even young kids so that they know what the correct way to say it is and they don't spend their life shouting 'gaijin' at every foreigner they see.

10-18-2007, 01:12 PM

"Gaijin" gets under my skin just for the fact that I've been on this island for as long as I can remember. I felt more like a foreigner back when I was going to college in the states. It's not that big of a deal. Just something that irritates me for reasons Muku stated above.

Skiman1969

10-18-2007, 01:27 PM

Depending on the sensitivities of the audience here the word 外人 or gaijin in Japanese literally means "outside person" 外 meaning outside and 人　meaning person. And as you may know it used by Japanese to talk about people other than themselves, meaning foreigners.

Even if Japanese people go overseas where they are the foreigner's, they will often use the word , 外人 to describe the people of the country they are in, very few will ever recognize themselves as being 外人.

And yes to some foreigners living here in Japan the word is extremely, offensive and prefer/demand that Japanese call them or refer to them only as
外国人　which means 外　outside 国　country 人　person, or a person from another country.

Semantics yes, but to some a very important difference, and it isnt just Americans that get upset when this word is used to describe them but people from many other places as well.

I hear what you are saying. It sounds like some people situational awareness. I am an American living here in Germany and I am a "auslander" (foeigener), when I come to Japan I will become gaijin. I do not take offense to this. I realize I am a guest in Japan and accept this. Why non-Japanese people take offense to this is beyond me. I have lived in many countries and realize people are pretty much the same everywhere you go. They might speak a different languages and have different customs, but you have good and bad, educated and not so educated, trailer-trash with or without the trailer everywhere you go. :D

Muku

10-18-2007, 01:38 PM

Personally speaking here, unless someone comes up to me and yell's "gaijin da" in my face I have gotten to the point in my life here that I ignore it.

"Gaijin" gets under my skin just for the fact that I've been on this island for as long as I can remember. I felt more like a foreigner back when I was going to college in the states. It's not that big of a deal. Just something that irritates me for reasons Muku stated above.
It used to bug me as well, I guess I just realized one day out of the blue \:-) that hell there is no way everyone on island is going to know me or how long I have been here. Plus I realized that the more I made an issue about it the more "some" people became alienated by me reminding them about the differences between the words.

In my opinion the nuances are often times lost on people from older generations. At least that has been my experience here.

I also think that the amount of time that it takes for each person to find their own comfortability level with the use of the word varies quite a bit, no matter how long or short they have been living here.

Asshat

10-18-2007, 02:05 PM

I am an American living here in Germany and I am a "auslander" (foeigener), when I come to Japan I will become gaijin.

Well, maybe not. What color is your skin? Do you see the difference now?

The term is not used nearly as much in Japan proper as it is on Okinawa, and from my persepective, the racism towards non-Japanese is much less noticiable in Japan than it is on Okinawa.

OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand

10-18-2007, 02:43 PM

The term is not used nearly as much in Japan proper as it is on Okinawa, and from my persepective, the racism towards non-Japanese is much less noticiable in Japan than it is on Okinawa.
In my years on the Japanese mainland, the term gaijin was extremely commonplace. In my relatively limited experience here, it is used about the same frequency as it is elsewhere in the country. I haven't found the racism to be especially different between other parts of the country either. Naturally, city folk tend to be more used to foreigners on average than country folk. Generally the same pattern as other places. Okinawans who suffered in the war sometimes have prejudice toward mainland Japanese, and others have some animosity towards Americans due to the military presence. While the groups dislike is directed towards may change, the levels of discrimination and hatred don't seem to change much from area to area.

Asshat

10-18-2007, 03:08 PM

While the groups dislike is directed towards may change, the levels of discrimination and hatred don't seem to change much from area to area.

Probably depends quite a bit upon where the comparisons are being made. Because of the manner in which I travelled, I was quite a way off the beaten path and that racism was null. (Country folks)

Be that as it may, I see and feel much less racism in Tokyo than I do in Chatan.

And black people are not called gaijin, though they are as foreign as there countrymen. That sort of puts the cap on that who literal translation thing. I know for a fact that gainjin is generally accepted as a negative trait here when the word is used alone.

DougP

10-18-2007, 03:35 PM

It also depends on who you're around. Some people may not use those words when you (the foreigner) are near by. Sometimes you'll hear it passing by sometimes you wont. I have noticed on quite a few occasions Japanese make derogatory comments at one another all the time. Often Okinawans I know will use terms like naicha and yamatunchu in a not so nice manner towards people from mainland. Mainlanders who come down make snide comments about Okinawans, hogen and many other things to do with this island. Not necessarily a racial thing but its condescending none the less.

I don't mind your run of the mill curse words. Shit I use them quite a bit myself. The usually work well in situations where you're very frustrated and have more of an impact on a statement than an exclamation point.

But racial slurs? No freaking way should they be acceptable on any level. That's when words become more than words.

atb35

10-18-2007, 04:08 PM

But racial slurs? No freaking way should they be acceptable on any level. That's when words become more than words.

They are only racial slurs because people allow them to be. The reason 'cracka' is laughed at when used is because us white people dont get butthurt over it, we dont care...therefore it becomes a joke, not a racial slur.

DougP

10-18-2007, 05:25 PM

I suppose if people had been whipping white folk and forcing them into slavery for a few hundred years while calling them cracka it might have been different. :D

TheNoNamedOne

10-18-2007, 06:42 PM

words are words, they cannot hurt you, the problem is everyone is treated like a f-king panzy (no offense to the botanical rights activists) from the time they are born these days. I just wish other parents would raise their children to have thick skin, then they wouldnt get all offended when someone happens to say the wrong thing out of anger or spell something incorrectly.

Yeah, I guess parents should start calling their kids names and using expletives towards them at 2 years old to get them prepared for the world. You know... growing some thick skin on them.

Johny, you are a loser and crybaby. Look at how stupid you look trying to jump rope as good as mommy can. Ha! (wait 20 seconds). Gotcha! Just kidding! Funny, huh?

Suzie, you look like a freak growing tits and you're only in the 4th grade. You are a weirdo. I bet no kids like you and you have no friends. Probably because you act bitchy all the time you little c**t. (Wait 20 seconds) Gotcha! Makin' ya tough, aren't I?

Yeah, I can see how raising them to have a thick skin by desensitizing them to just words can have a big help in their mental and self esteem development.

atb35

10-18-2007, 07:34 PM

Yeah, I guess parents should start calling their kids names and using expletives towards them at 2 years old to get them prepared for the world. You know... growing some thick skin on them.

Johny, you are a loser and crybaby. Look at how stupid you look trying to jump rope as good as mommy can. Ha! (wait 20 seconds). Gotcha! Just kidding! Funny, huh?

Suzie, you look like a freak growing tits and you're only in the 4th grade. You are a weirdo. I bet no kids like you and you have no friends. Probably because you act bitchy all the time you little c**t. (Wait 20 seconds) Gotcha! Makin' ya tough, aren't I?

Yeah, I can see how raising them to have a thick skin by desensitizing them to just words can have a big help in their mental and self esteem development.

At no point did I say we should raise kids by calling them names and degrading them. We should raise them to treat everyone equal, to not get butthurt by being called names and they should pay more attention to the intent of what others are saying rather then the words themselves.

atb35

10-18-2007, 07:38 PM

Yeah, I guess parents should start calling their kids names and using expletives towards them at 2 years old to get them prepared for the world. You know... growing some thick skin on them.

Johny, you are a loser and crybaby. Look at how stupid you look trying to jump rope as good as mommy can. Ha! (wait 20 seconds). Gotcha! Just kidding! Funny, huh?

Instead of treating your child like shit in this example, try this:

Johnny, your not as good at jumping rope as your mom because she has alot more practice then you. Dont be upset if you arent as good, you will get there in time if you practice.

Suzie, you look like a freak growing tits and you're only in the 4th grade. You are a weirdo. I bet no kids like you and you have no friends. Probably because you act bitchy all the time you little c**t. (Wait 20 seconds) Gotcha! Makin' ya tough, aren't I?

Suzie, it is ok that you are developing faster then other girls. Kids are mean, they will make fun of you because that is what kids do. Just be strong and in time they will catch up to you. Dont stoop to their level and call them names or act out, it just makes you a bad person.

Yeah, I can see how raising them to have a thick skin by desensitizing them to just words can have a big help in their mental and self esteem development.

So unlike your dumbass example, you can reinforce a child to have thick skin without degrading them...but hell, what do I know...I have a comprehension problem!

Fonze

10-18-2007, 07:39 PM

I think words like loser and stupid and idiot are worse than the f word and asshole.

TheNoNamedOne

10-18-2007, 07:45 PM

atb35

10-18-2007, 07:49 PM

@atb35:

Oh, I see. So words can hurt.

Why do you think that even if a parent raised them with the style you inserted as a counter example, if they are talked that way to by their peers it would not affect them. At certain points in a child's development, I would bet that peer group opinion and words from that can be devastating despite how a parent has tried to raise and get across to them that words are just words and they can't hurt you.

It isnt the words that are hurting them, it is the parents treating them like shit and the intent of the parent to degrade them. Nobody will convince me that parents cannot raise their kids to have thick skin and not let what others say bother them. I have a 15 and 13 year old to prove that point.

Muku

10-18-2007, 07:51 PM

At no point did I say we should raise kids by calling them names and degrading them. We should raise them to treat everyone equal, to not get butthurt by being called names and they should pay more attention to the intent of what others are saying rather then the words themselves.

I know that, and you know that, but the "hidden one" recently likes to post stuff here mix up the pot and then go stick his head back in the sand.

Dont get too tied up in knots in replying to a person that has to "hide" themselves from public view here on this forum.:rolleyes:

If I could I would put him on ignore until he decides to be man enough to "show" his face and let people know he is around here.

Fonze

10-18-2007, 07:51 PM

so your saying teach them that those words exist, but only have power if they let them. Gotch ya. am i right?

Muku

10-18-2007, 07:53 PM

I think words like loser and stupid and idiot are worse than the f word and asshole.

Depending on how they are used I would agree, along with ignorant as well. However I would also like to point out that it depends in my opinion on how the people that are hearing those words were raised, and what level their vocabulary level is at.

Fonze

10-18-2007, 07:55 PM

Hey I just noticed the hidden guy too I wonder what self righteous purpose is trying to be shown or not.

TheNoNamedOne

10-18-2007, 07:58 PM

It isnt the words that are hurting them, it is the parents treating them like shit and the intent of the parent to degrade them. Nobody will convince me that parents cannot raise their kids to have thick skin and not let what others say bother them. I have a 15 and 13 year old to prove that point.

So, it is all dependent on the parents? There is no innate uniqueness to an individual child and their mind that could determine how they filter words despite what efforts a parent may go through to teach them to have thick skins?

Perhaps you should write a book to benefit all of society on your child raising techniques that grows a thick skin on them. I am sure it could be quite a success if it were sound advice. What would your credentials be on the jacket for the professional world to take you serious and make it so that book reviewers would seriously consider critiquing it?

atb35

10-18-2007, 08:10 PM

so your saying teach them that those words exist, but only have power if they let them. Gotch ya. am i right?

Exactly!! Finally someone gets it (hoping your not being sarcastic..lol)

Fonze

10-18-2007, 08:12 PM

No I feel where your coming from completely. On the racial words I can also I agree but probably think it is better not to use words that others feel offended by.

A line I heard when a teen. " I'm sorry you took the time to get offended"

atb35

10-18-2007, 08:30 PM

Perhaps you should write a book to benefit all of society on your child raising techniques that grows a thick skin on them. I am sure it could be quite a success if it were sound advice. What would your credentials be on the jacket for the professional world to take you serious and make it so that book reviewers would seriously consider critiquing it?

I would love to, but unfortunately I dont have pieces of paper showing I went to school xx amount of years...all I have is my lowly 35 years of life experience and two great children. Its good enough for me though, Im happy.

As most of the people here are proving, society isnt ready to grasp this concept. I wouldnt expect it, nor would I think in my lifetime I will see it.

ja_Patriot

10-18-2007, 08:30 PM

Hello TP,
Funny you're posting today, I don't see you active in the front page log.

atb35,
Picking up where we left off, IMHO a racial slur is a slur and it really doesn't depend on whether people intend or allow it to be a slur or not.

In some instances, the target of a slur may not even notice.

Like, you get pissed and blurt out, "Get off me, you freaking Jap (or the "N" or "S" word)". That person may not even know what you'd be talking about or may not even hear you and know anything about your "intentions", but that doesn't make it any less of a slur.

You'd just be degrading yourself. And constant usage of slurs bite your in the butt eventually.

So, to answer your initial question in this thread, IMHO, words are not just a jumble of letters and most do not depend on intentions to convey a meaning. Being sensitive to slurs is simply applying common decency.

Jap is a slur. I think "Yank" is far from it and so is "gaijin". But that's another muku /dk sub-thread.

#

atb35

10-18-2007, 08:37 PM

Like, you get pissed and blurt out, "Get off me, you freaking Jap (or the "N" or "S" word)". That person may not even know what you'd be talking about or may not even hear you and know anything about your "intentions", but that doesn't make it any less of a slur.

Really? So if we as a society stopped getting offended by the word "N" it would always still be a slur? I feel that if people took control and stopped looking at it as a slur, it wouldnt be one at some point...in a few generations it wouldnt be any different then any other word. (probably just my stupid wishful thinking, but hell, its my opinion:))

Dont get me wrong, like I have stated, I know that isnt going to happen. I know that using words with negative connotations is going to invoke anger. I dont do it, wont use those words at all. I just dont know why people get so hurt over them.

I guess it is just our society...its not going to chage anytime soon.

Muku

10-18-2007, 09:03 PM

Exactly!! Finally someone gets it (hoping your not being sarcastic..lol)

I happen to agree, I guess however that I know too many people that haven't gotten to the point in their lives to make that distinction.

I think it would be wonderful for everyone to have the ability to let "crap" go in regards to what is said, however I think that will only occur when Utopia comes around.

Muku

10-18-2007, 09:06 PM

I dont do it, wont use those words at all. I just dont know why people get so hurt over them.

Correct me if I am wrong here please....

I think you know the reasons why, but would appreciate more people looking at it from your point of view.

In that regards I am forever the optimist that people will finally understand, yet I am also a realist in knowing that, to me at least, the majority of people in the world will never get there.

atb35

10-18-2007, 09:50 PM

Yep, I feel the same way, just thought it would be a good topic of discussion.

Boost

10-19-2007, 07:24 AM

No, I mean that words SHOULDNT hurt at all...physically or mentally. It is the intent behind the words that hurt.

Without reading through the rest of the posts yet, I think what I meant in my post is essentially the same thing as what you are saying here just you say intent and I said from the heart (though you could swap this with being, or soul, or whatever other internal factor you like).

While the words "I hate you fookin guts" doesn't hurt me any, if it were to come from my wife, then yes it would hurt. Because that would tell me that in her heart, she doesn't love me any more and she said those words with malintent.

So pretty much it is the same difference, what I said and what you are saying.

OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand

10-19-2007, 09:44 AM

Probably depends quite a bit upon where the comparisons are being made. Because of the manner in which I travelled, I was quite a way off the beaten path and that racism was null. (Country folks)
I lived in the countryside on the mainland, and traveled from Hokkaido to Kyushu, camping all the way. Stayed off the highways, and saw the beautiful Japanese countryside. People were polite in the countryside, but I heard far more racist talk while eating at restaurants, going to onsen, and just walking about.

Be that as it may, I see and feel much less racism in Tokyo than I do in Chatan.
Which was exactly my point about people in large cities being far more used to and open about people from other places and cultures.

And black people are not called gaijin, though they are as foreign as there countrymen. That sort of puts the cap on that who literal translation thing. I know for a fact that gainjin is generally accepted as a negative trait here when the word is used alone.
On the mainland, Africans and those of African descent are called gaijin, and also kokujin. Some of the locals felt the need to classify just what type of gaijin - sangokujin, kokujin, etc. - and others gave us all the blanket term gaijin. The tone of voice and context of conversation gives away how the speaker feels about non-Japanese. Most locals I have spoken to here and on the mainland use gaijin in a neutral way. Some take pains to say gaijin-san or gaikokujin to be extra polite. But it really boils down to tone and context. I've heard gaikokujin used in the coldest, most unfriendly way, and I've heard gaijin used as a term of admiration and respect.

themadscientist

10-19-2007, 10:04 AM

Muku

10-19-2007, 11:20 AM

I don't like "gaijin" because it takes my identity away. I am a foreigner but I am from somewhere; call me "American". By calling me "gajin" you have simply called me "not japanese" which just identifies what I am not, not what I am which is very disrespectful. I don't call people who visit America foreigners. If I get involved with them and need to refer to their nationality i find out where they are from and show them the respect of calling them German, French, Japanese etc. The whole gaijin thing is just another example of many Japanese peoples ingrained xenophobia.
I am sorry but I dont agree with you about it taking your identity away. You may feel that way and I respect your opinion for it but I can not agree. Your identity is what you choose it to be or what you want it to be, it may be influenced by those around you but you are the one that has the final decision on what it is. It you let others define who you are, for you, then you may find yourself awash just floating around.

However without knowing where you are from I would hope that they wouldnt just come up and call you American either. This particularly happens more here in Okinawa because of the close proximity of the bases.

Yet there are something like 120 or 130 different countries national's residing here in Okinawa, at least that is what a friend of mine who works at the city office once told me, and it is wrong to assume that all foreigners are Americans too.

Yet without getting into a discussion about where you are from, how do you expect people to know you are American and expect them to call you one as such?

America was built upon the backs of immigrants and people from all over the world have gotten together there, so people in America are more attuned to the sensitivities of using or calling people "foreigners".

I have Japanese friends that went to work in Guatemala, where ever they walked on the streets people would point fingers at them and say "Cheena" "Cheena"....assuming they were Chinese. Which bothered them greatly, because they obviously are not Chinese. At least to them. These friends truly understand our position here as "gaijin".

However just because one may or may not like the use of the word it really helps to get beyond that and just be yourself and try to let it go. It wastes an awful lot of energy trying to fight the entire system. I would suggest trying to change those you can change and let the rest go. Unless you want to be a crusader like Deibito Arudo.

Fonze

10-19-2007, 11:29 AM

Ya older hispanics don't call them chinos out of disrespect it's more likely out of education , but my mom says chinos too even after the times I remind her they are Japanese. Chinos I think is because of there eyes in a way. In the states they do more call them by country if they know but if they don't all asians are called chinos.

themadscientist

10-19-2007, 11:44 AM

I am sorry but I dont agree with you about it taking your identity away. You may feel that way and I respect your opinion for it but I can not agree. Your identity is what you choose it to be or what you want it to be, it may be influenced by those around you but you are the one that has the final decision on what it is. It you let others define who you are, for you, then you may find yourself awash just floating around.

However without knowing where you are from I would hope that they wouldnt just come up and call you American either. This particularly happens more here in Okinawa because of the close proximity of the bases.

Yet there are something like 120 or 130 different countries national's residing here in Okinawa, at least that is what a friend of mine who works at the city office once told me, and it is wrong to assume that all foreigners are Americans too.

Yet without getting into a discussion about where you are from, how do you expect people to know you are American and expect them to call you one as such?

America was built upon the backs of immigrants and people from all over the world have gotten together there, so people in America are more attuned to the sensitivities of using or calling people "foreigners".

I have Japanese friends that went to work in Guatemala, where ever they walked on the streets people would point fingers at them and say "Cheena" "Cheena"....assuming they were Chinese. Which bothered them greatly, because they obviously are not Chinese. At least to them. These friends truly understand our position here as "gaijin".

However just because one may or may not like the use of the word it really helps to get beyond that and just be yourself and try to let it go. It wastes an awful lot of energy trying to fight the entire system. I would suggest trying to change those you can change and let the rest go. Unless you want to be a crusader like Deibito Arudo.

That is why I said when I deal with them, ie interact. Very rarely do you actually need to point out a person's nationality in daily conversation, only when it is appropriate to the discussion and I would try to determine the other person's nationality rather than call them "foreigner" and I expect the same? no, not frequently but I don't mind correcting people. "no I am not a foreigner, I am American". I don't get highly offended, I just don't like it so I fix it when I can. It embarrases me when Americans do it more. I have people from back home that call any asian-looking person "chinese" and see nothing wrong with it. :rolleyes:

ja_Patriot

10-19-2007, 06:57 PM

Muku

10-19-2007, 09:27 PM

We're gaijin to the Japanese here in Japan, just as we'll be called gaijin by the Japanese even when they're in America.

It stems from the fact that theirs is a homogeneous society. The Yamato society. Although technically the Ryukyuans are a minority group within the Japanese society. So anyone's who's a non-Japanese is called a gaijin.

Can't change the order of their society. That's just how it is.

Some of the so-called Chugokujin, Taiwanjin, and Kankokujin and Chosenjin, or people from East Asian neighboring countries who have been in this country for one or more generations still aren't considered or called Nihonjin as citizenship is acquired by blood (jus sanguinis), and have not acquired whatever rights citizenship confer i.e. right of suffrage (right to vote or get elected).

If anyone ever had a raw deal, those East Asian folks would be on the pedestal in this respect.

For the rest of us, well, it's another day of living uniquely in Japan.

#
The people who really have the short end of the stick are the "zainichi-kankokujin", the people who were forced into coming to Japan during the time period in the early 1900's until the end of WWII. They and their descendents are technically still Koreans, even though their forefathers were annexed as a part of Japan during the Japanese occupation of Japan.

There are literally hundreds of thousands of these "stateless" people living in a type of limbo here in Japan. They have to carry the foreign registration card, and can not vote, yet the majority have been born, raised and educated here in Japan. You all might be surprised at the number of "geinojin" or actors and actresses here in Japan that are of Korean descent.

Japan will not give them citizenship and yet they know nearly nothing of their ancestoral roots in Korea.

All I can say to the people that get upset or are bothered by being called "gaijin" to think about these people and the problems they face while living here in Japan. Being called a gaijin is nothing in comparison.

Oh and btw, I have just scratched the surface of what kinds of discrimination these humans face.

Please think about that the next time a Japanese person calls you "gaijin". It really isnt a big deal in comparison.