A question to Christians: What is the Bible?

[TheNoNamedOne]

Is it the flawless Word of God?

Or is it the flawed Word of God rife with mistakes, contradictions, and falsehoods? If the latter, then how do you know which parts to cherry pick as Truth and which are ok to ignore? Who decides and why don't/can't all Christians agree on those parts which are to be observed and those which can be ignored -- or those which are figurative and those which are literal, and their meanings?

Is it a contract of promises to be kept by God and the one who professes faith in Him and his Son?

Did God intend his Word to be timeless and directly accessable to all in all ages?

[Isaak Brodsky]

My sneaking suspicion is that the questions posed in the opening thread represent various kinds of bait meant to hook respondents into a protracted debate over quibbles with perceived contradictions or inconsistencies or impossible natural events.

Nevertheless, it is difficult not to respond with something.

Since I could not possibly generate my own fitting response to questions about a book I've only partly finished reading, I thought that the pasted descriptions below might cover TP's query. I hope this pasted work is not taken as a contemptuous response to TP's questions.

Anyone who has studied the Bible knows that it is a long, continuous story with a common thread throughout. It is saturated with symbolism from the beginning to the end to help the reader understand the central point and purpose, which is of course—Christ. In the last book of the Bible, The Revelation, Christ calls himself by a certain symbolic name multiple times. He calls Himself "The Alpha and the Omega". Alpha and Omega are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet—the language the majority of the New Testament was written in. Speaking of Himself, Christ says: "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." Revelation 1:8

The Bible is amazing and unique. It is the world’s best selling and most popular book. It has been translated in whole or in part into 2,300 languages and has converted the hearts of men and women from every race and nation. Through the power of its message, drunkards have become sober, thieves have become honest, murderers have laid down their knives and guns, atheists have become believers in God, and the tongue of the blasphemer has been converted into an instrument of worship.

The Bible is a canon composed of 66 books. It was written by 40 different men over a period of 1,600 years, beginning in about 1,500 B.C. and ending in about 95 A.D., yet it tells one consistent story and contains no contradictions in its facts or teaching. This is a great and amazing miracle. When men living even in the same lifetime try to describe something they have all seen and experienced, there are always many contradictions. For example, when Krakatoa exploded off the western tip of Java in August 1883, it was the largest, most devastating volcanic eruption in known history.

Almost 40,000 people were killed. The sound of the explosion could be heard 3,000 miles away! One historian observed: “Thousands of people, far and wide, suddenly became aware of the events, but their accounts of it, like the accounts of any monstrous and traumatizing event, present today a morass of conflict and confusion” (Simon Winchester, Krakatoa: The Day the World Exploded, p. 210; emphasis added).

Thus we see that apart from a divine miracle, men’s testimonies disagree even when they are reporting about the same event in their own lifetime. In this light it is obvious that the Bible is an incredible miracle, when it was written over a period of 1,600 years by more than three dozen authors yet provides a fully unified message.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Ian, for clarification on what all is the pasted parts, are we to presume it is all from the fourth paragraph starting with "Anyone" all the way to the last paragraph to the last word "message"? If so, could you format it by quoting those parts with a link to the source you took them from?

IF by the next time you visit the forum are unable to edit your post, but you do have the link and are fine with the formatting I have asked you to do, you can PM me and let me know and give me the link URL and I can edit your post to reflect that change.

Thanks.

[ryukyuboi]

I think your presumption is correct.

[Isaak Brodsky]

Your presumption is correct. The passage beginning with "Anyone" is borrowed from:

http://russtanner.com/God/Bible/AmazingBibleFacts/FourthWordOfTheBible.html

The rest of it comes from:

http://www.wayoflife.org/gospel/Bibles-Amazing-Story/index.html

Cheers.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Since I could not possibly generate my own fitting response to questions about a book I've only partly finished reading, ...

Ian, could you qualify "partly finished"? Have you read just 25, 50, or 75% of the Bible?

Btw, thanks for the clarification and links above.

[ryukyuboi]

Jesus Christ!

[ja_Patriot]

Ian gave a response in depth and the only retort is how much of the phone book or the dictionary you've read! Like its intrinsic value would be quantified by the amount of time you thumb through its pages.

It's like the real use of the latter thicker volumes would be as a make-shift high chair for Uncle Dick who stoops, when he visits.

Unless you have an extreme case of zero attention deficit disorder, you really won't go through a dozen pages without falling asleep.

I'm not a religious zealot but I see the points Ian brought up how it's been remarkable with its consistent message over the centuries, written by prophets, scholars, monks and others, who none of us will ever hold a candle to.

As to the ADD comment above, its message is better perceived when preached or delivered by men of the cloth, IMHO.


#

[DoctorP]

From reading the OP...TP are you acknowledging that there is indeed a GOD?

[Isaak Brodsky]

I've read the Good News in its entirety and assorted books of the OT, the major and minor prophets. My long curiosity of the Gospel and of this Jesus character, the focal point, led me to abandon my secular agnostic Jewish-ness. Ja... has a good point too - it's nearly impossible to know how to quantify the effect of the Word on the soul, the seat of the emotions, as you dig in to the words themselves. Rudolph Otto described the effect as the mysterium tremendum - a sudden awareness of the wholly other.

[Asshat]

Rudolph Otto described the effect as the mysterium tremendum - a sudden awareness of the wholly other.

And haven't you spent a lot of time attempting to make this definition? :)There is no definitive answer. Your quote was the perfect answer to the question however.

[Isaak Brodsky]

Uminchu & Guyjin,

Excellent points!!
The Gospel message is centered on love. This subject may seem trite, but the focus on the practice of love is true.

Nowadays, it seems increasingly more difficult to testify of the power of the Gospel when violence - especially the unpopular military aggression in Iraq - is intertwined with the Christian Crusades.

One response might be that the message of Christ cannot be sullied or nullified by those who pretend to obey its central commands contained in the message.

[Asshat]

The Gospel message is centered on love. This subject may seem trite, but the focus on the practice of love is true.

This was always my belief.

One response might be that the message of Christ cannot be sullied or nullified by those who pretend to obey its central commands contained in the message.

Thus the Christian coallition who are urging for the preemptive strike against Iran can not be considered Christian.

Unfortunately everything is now twisted. Clergy now want war and vie for seats in the new Therocratic government.

[Isaak Brodsky]

You're right.

Those who comprise the Christian Coalition, or any other so-called Christian organization that calls for war as a substitute for diplomacy (the antithesis of war) are only pretending to walk the same path that Christ carved.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Isn't the Bible a contract of promise and hope between Bible God and Bible Follower? i.e. Follower hopes and believes with faith that the depictions/declarations and promises put forth in it are true and will be delivered at some time in the future.

Why would this not be analogous to to an unseen landlord (staff are presenting it i.e. clergy) at a housing agency putting forth before you a contract to accept by signing before even seeing the apartment you are to be given to rent and live in?

Why would you accept it and sign it if the staff admits that this is not the original text of the contract, which they assure you exists somewhere with more accurate details, and you notice some stuff pasted here and there and cut out here and there and what seems to be some contradictions requiring the staff to make great leaps in explanations to make things cogent to some degree?

You are not even permitted to speak with others who have already gone to live there and to verify that the contract is not fraudulant.

[ryukyuboi]

It's a book coauthored by some men over a period of time. I have read the entire Bible. I was raised Christian. I attended Sunday School and church religiously. I enjoyed reading and hearing some of the stories. I have studied other religions as well. My spiritual beliefs are derived from all of the above. I have disassociated myself with organized religion. "The Kingdom of God is Within You." I have no answers to all the questions about religion.

[TheNoNamedOne]

You don't sound like a Christian, Ryukyuboi. You are not of the flock any longer.

[ryukyuboi]

That could be good news for me. Jesus liked to reach out to those on the fringe.

[TheNoNamedOne]

lol.

Geuss we will have to save the topic of "Did Jesus exist" for another thread so we don't risk derailing this one completely on that point. If he didn't, then you have no worry of him reaching out to you no matter how far on the fringe you are.

btw... I am all for "Good News" that is real and verifiable.

[dk]

It's a book coauthored by some men over a period of time. I have read the entire Bible. I was raised Christian. I attended Sunday School and church religiously. I enjoyed reading and hearing some of the stories. I have studied other religions as well. My spiritual beliefs are derived from all of the above. I have disassociated myself with organized religion. "The Kingdom of God is Within You." I have no answers to all the questions about religion.
Your upbringing sounds like a mirror image of mine. The only difference is I didn't find my way by studying other religions. I eventually just came to my own conclusion that every single religion had gotton it wrong and that they were all interconnected. I guess I've found my own way. It's not a religion. I just fail to see man evil. And I'm convinced that man created god, and not the opposite.

If people need the threat of eternal damnation in order to behave, more power to them. But when I die and the lights go out, that'll be the end of me, and I won't care.

[Fonze]

I was just like you guys too. I like to believe in faith, not blind, but general faith. The way I see it is all faiths believe in God and it's kinda of like a hand. The palm is God and the fingers are religion and we all believe in God. If you don't believe thats cool too.

Oh ya I was watching the History channel and Hell was not evented or created by Christians it was way before that time.

[dk]

Christianity actually adopted (stole) a lot from other religions that came before it.

[TheNoNamedOne]

But Christians have gotten around this problem by simply saying that the Devil, the crafty fellow that he is, went back in time to create these other similar points in these other religions to confuse Christians and people who he knew would be coming on the scene soon, and to cause them to raise the point you just did making them skeptical and working to keep the Good News from others.

[Fonze]

Christianity actually adopted (stole) a lot from other religions that came before it.

If you believe everything that movie says.

[dk]

If you believe everything that movie says.
LMAO this isn't news. This isn't something new. And I just saw that movie three days ago. This is something even the tiniest amount of research will reveal.

[ja_Patriot]

Before I was kicked out of a seminary a long time ago, one of the questions unanswered was, "If Jesus was electrocuted on a chair, instead of the Sign of the Cross, would we be rocking on our chairs?"

(I humbly seek God's forgiveness for that stupid comment which befuddled the priests).

But then, those priests did not live in poverty, chastity and obedience per their vows.

The Catholic Church has been guilty of hypocrisy (the Holocaust), and in some instances guilty of crimes (Spanish Inquisition and child abuse scandals). It was an integral part of the Holy Roman Empire and was involved with wars and the slaughter of thousands, if not millions.

The Vatican, a principal caretaker of the Bible, lives in full splendor looking at Darfur and Rwanda on video screens.

So I can see where many leave off, disgusted for their own reasons.

And none of that is intended to take anything away from holy and heroic men and women of the cloth over the ages.

Nor do I believe that hell must be such a large bonfire to accommodate all the Muslims, Jews, atheists and others.

But to survive all adversity, doubt and disbelief says to me something about the Word of the Lord and belief in Jesus Christ.


#