DODEA cost of tuition coming to light

[nopar]

Are you a contractor who sends your child to a DODEA school overseas? Have you had to, or considered, leaving your job because of the price of tuition?

That was on the http://www.stripes.com/ front page near the bottom middle.

The cost is a bit extreme for tuition. When we consider the recent drop in scores, the director accused of abusing authority http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=65266

[ryukyuboi]

Costs of running a school system overseas on the US taxpayers dime have nothing to do with test scores or allegations.

[uriel]

you're right ryu. why should the school have to worry about piddly small details like actually TEACHING and EDUCATING students when they have things like saving money tho think about?

[Richard Burns]

I think it's bullshit contractors have to pay for DoDDs school. They're here workng for the government for Christ's sake.

[ryukyuboi]

It is a two way street. It takes a student who wants to learn and be educated. Without this ingredient, no amount of teaching or educating will make any difference.

Seems to me that much of the responsibility for learning has been taken away from the student. Everyone else (parents, teachers, society, etc) is at fault when desired outcomes are not achieved

Wasn't the SAT originally designed to weed out college bound students when space was limited at some colleges?

Perhaps the demographics of the seniors who took the test might give further explanation for the decline in scores??? I didn't see that info in the article nor was it addressed.

I think it is shortsighted and narrow to judge anyone or any system based on a test score.

Tuition has always been outrageous in DoDDS. One either pays it, or moves on. End of story.

[DoctorP]

I think it's bullshit contractors have to pay for DoDDs school. They're here workng for the government for Christ's sake.

Sorry, I just can't agree with this reasoning right now.

[SnaFu]

How much is tuition now? A few years back it was $13,000.00. I hear it's approaching $18,000.00 now per student.

For anyone opposed to the tax payers picking up the "dime" to pay for education of contractors dependants maybe it's time for active duty military members to pay for the tuition of their dependants also out of there own pockets. With no allowances for their dependants!

And don't give me that bullshit that contractors are here by choice. Last time I checked their wasn't a draft so in effect the active duty people are also here by choice. You knew what you were getting in to.

[Richard Burns]

How much is tuition now? A few years back it was $13,000.00. I hear it's approaching $18,000.00 now per student.

For anyone opposed to the tax payers picking up the "dime" to pay for education of contractors dependants maybe it's time for active duty military members to pay for the tuition of their dependants also out of there own pockets. With no allowances for their dependants!

And don't give me that bullshit that contractors are here by choice. Last time I checked their wasn't a draft so in effect the active duty people are also here by choice. You knew what you were getting in to.

I had to groan you. I hate posts like this. Yes people choose to join the military bur after you sign you have no choices. A lot of people join because they have no other options in life. You sign and go wherever the Green Weenie sends you.

Contractorsc DoD civilians can quit if they don't like their job. Military folks on the other hand are indentured servants to the government with no freedom and no voice.

They deserve every bennie they get and then some.

[Richard Burns]

I'd also argue when you join the military you don't really know what you're getting into until you're in it.

[SnaFu]

I had to groan you. I hate posts like this. Yes people choose to join the military bur after you sign you have no choices. A lot of people join because they have no other options in life. You sign and go wherever the Green Weenie sends you.

Contractorsc DoD civilians can quit if they don't like their job. Military folks on the other hand are indentured servants to the government with no freedom and no voice.

They deserve every bennie they get and then some.

Point taken. But the reason many military people don't realize what they are getting into is because they may not have done their homework. There is definately a backdoor draft in effect. No doubt about it.

As far as going where the suck sends you... No shit! You join the military regardless of the reason knowing full well that your primary purpose is to defend your country and be prepared to fight.

What happened to the "Total Force" concept? Personally I think that in itself was bullshit from the get go but that is another thread all together.

I do appreciate what they do but the military is turning into a welfare program where people go to raise families. I am sick and tired of seeing all these programs aimed at quality of life for dependants while the single military member gets jacked. Back in the day the single servicemen could go to a rec room get a cheap beer and cheap food and shoot pool all night for free. Movies and the pool were dirt cheap.

But the main point I was trying to make was that tuition costs for contractor dependants is way over the top. Not all contractors are making enough money to pay that cost. They too may be here because there are no decent jobs anywhere else.

[DoctorP]

Point taken. But the reason many military people don't realize what they are getting into is because they may not have done their homework. There is definately a backdoor draft in effect. No doubt about it.

As far as going where the suck sends you... No shit! You join the military regardless of the reason knowing full well that your primary purpose is to defend your country and be prepared to fight.

What happened to the "Total Force" concept? Personally I think that in itself was bullshit from the get go but that is another thread all together.

I do appreciate what they do but the military is turning into a welfare program where people go to raise families. I am sick and tired of seeing all these programs aimed at quality of life for dependants while the single military member gets jacked. Back in the day the single servicemen could go to a rec room get a cheap beer and cheap food and shoot pool all night for free. Movies and the pool were dirt cheap.

But the main point I was trying to make was that tuition costs for contractor dependants is way over the top. Not all contractors are making enough money to pay that cost. They too may be here because there are no decent jobs anywhere else.

You are sooo right about the homework thing...if most military people had done their homework in high school then they would have been able to attend college instead! :rolleyes:

[Richard Burns]

I agree with most of that SnaFu. The military treats single military guys like shit and does care more about dependants. This pisses me off too.

[Okiman]

Are you a contractor who sends your child to a DODEA school overseas? Have you had to, or considered, leaving your job because of the price of tuition?

That was on the http://www.stripes.com/ front page near the bottom middle.

The cost is a bit extreme for tuition. When we consider the recent drop in scores, the director accused of abusing authority http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=65266

I am a contractor, but I send my daughter to OCSI instead of DODDS. Both have their good point and bad points, but at 1/3 of the cost and a more personal relationship students/parents have with the faculty and staff I think are worth it.

A note as to why the cost of the DODDS is so high is that is the average price that is being spent on children back in the states for their education.

[dk]

OCSI also teaches a mandatory bible class every day. Your child's success will be partly due to how well he or she is at memorizing bible verses. I personally would rather my daughter memorize mathematical formulas, but if money is a big deal then by all means go for OCSI. lol

Not picking on Okiman. I grew up at OCSI. The education was mediocre, the students were extremely cliquish*, the computer classes were a joke (as were the math classes), and all in all I wish my parents had sent me somewhere else. lol

*Long story. :p

[DougP]

OCSI also teaches a mandatory bible class every day. Your child's success will be partly due to how well he or she is at memorizing bible verses. I personally would rather my daughter memorize mathematical formulas, but if money is a big deal then by all means go for OCSI. lol

Not picking on Okiman. I grew up at OCSI. The education was mediocre, the students were extremely cliquish*, the computer classes were a joke (as were the math classes), and all in all I wish my parents had sent me somewhere else. lol

*Long story. :p

But 18K a year to send a kid to Elementary school is pretty steep. :ohmy: Are there any Niki factories near by? Might not be such a bad idea to start off with some vocational education. :D I kid, I kid.:w00t:

[dk]

But 18K a year to send a kid to Elementary school is pretty steep. :ohmy: Are there any Niki factories near by? Might not be such a bad idea to start off with some vocational education. :D I kid, I kid.:w00t:

Home school. lol. Put that wife to work! :D

Is there distance education available for kids? haha. A lot of online universities aren't even that expensive per year. WTF. Do kids get dorms and steak for lunch now?

[DougP]

Home school. lol. Put that wife to work! :D

Is there distance education available for kids? haha. A lot of online universities aren't even that expensive per year. WTF. Do kids get dorms and steak for lunch now?

lol, you have to pay for school lunch too at dudds. The lunch at Japanese schools looks a hell of a lot better than what they are getting on base. I saw some of the local school's lunches and honestly, I'd rather eat my lunch there. :) I have a feeling my daughter will probably attend a local school, that is, if we are still here.

[dk]

lol, you have to pay for school lunch too at dudds. The lunch at Japanese schools looks a hell of a lot better than what they are getting on base. I saw some of the local school's lunches and honestly, I'd rather eat my lunch there. :) I have a feeling my daughter will probably attend a local school, that is, if we are still here.

Wherever you go, I'm going. Let's start a traveling circus.

[Okiman]

OCSI also teaches a mandatory bible class every day. Your child's success will be partly due to how well he or she is at memorizing bible verses. I personally would rather my daughter memorize mathematical formulas, but if money is a big deal then by all means go for OCSI. lol

Not picking on Okiman. I grew up at OCSI. The education was mediocre, the students were extremely cliquish*, the computer classes were a joke (as were the math classes), and all in all I wish my parents had sent me somewhere else. lol

*Long story. :p

True, like I said there are ups and downs, but I heard that this year they are trying to get 18 Mac Books :first:

As for the kids, hell yeah they are extremely cliquish I thought that I was the only one that noticed. The other thing is that it seems to be the only school where kids can take English as a second language and they come out talking like valley girls. How does that happen?

[dk]

True, like I said there are ups and downs, but I heard that this year they are trying to get 18 Mac Books :first:

As for the kids, hell yeah they are extremely cliquish I thought that I was the only one that noticed. The other thing is that it seems to be the only school where kids can take English as a second language and they come out talking like valley girls. How does that happen?

Mac books are worthless without quality computer teachers. lol.

[Okiman]

Mac books are worthless without quality computer teachers. lol.

You mean that the intro disk was not intended to teach people how to actually use a Mac? Awww damn it now I do not believe in anything, I am going back to school to finish my masters and go to law school to become a lawyer. :D

[DoctorP]

Home school. lol. Put that wife to work! :D

Is there distance education available for kids? haha. A lot of online universities aren't even that expensive per year. WTF. Do kids get dorms and steak for lunch now?

Wait until the new International school starts up...I'm wondering what the tuition costs for that will be.:scratchchin::-|

[Richard Burns]

I see where you're coming from SG but if the government can afford to bailout AIG, GM and waste tax dollars in that fashion anyway then they have no excuse not to offer DoDDs schools to contractors' kids for free. Just my opinion. I never attended a DoDDs school and don't have any knowledge on their curriculum to pass judgement on it.

[hankypanky]

pffft....

I grew up in DoDD's or DoDEA schools until around 13 or so... Then it was time to go to normal stateside public schools... Nite and Day.. i couldnt believe how slow the curriculum was at the public schools.

One thing about the contractors and the price of school here... If you dont like it.. suck it up and go back to the states and put your kid in public school... for free (tax $$)

oh.. i am sorry.. you cant or wont go back for whatever is the reason why you are here on oki as a civi contractor anyway (the sun and great beaches):rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

i wonder if the Dodds bashers here actually think about the costs associated with running a school district... there are a ton of logistical, supply, infrastructure, staffing, etc... costs associated with running these learning centers...

i see a lot of people bitching about how much fully qualified and well educated Dodds teachers make....

I personally think they deserve every dime... to see how they come here and take everybody's bad ass kids and actually teach them something that they probably arent getting at home and producing productive members of society in the end...

the only downside to dodds schools is being overseas the sports opportunities are really limited... you are not playing with or against the cream of the crop in whatever sport you play and you can only develop as much as the competition around you will let you...

let's not forgot the 50-60k they get for housing, somebody has to pay that, why not pass it on. :D

Bad ass kids? I just did kubasaki's homecoming dance and they were the most behaved kids I've seen in a long time. Not that i have been back to the states in the last 12 years, but you tell me what high school dance where there are no fights, no drugs or booze, and kids having manners. These teachers have a lot more easier gig than a stateside teacher. They have the bases on their side, if the kid messes up, they ship em back to the states.

[Richard Burns]

I have no clue how contracting works. I know some make big money and others get paid garbage since they're private companies and all IIRC.

I'm simply expressing I'd rather see tax money spent on their kids getting free school too asoppsed to tax money going to greedy corrupt businesses.

[hankypanky]

believe it or not every adult is not qualified to TEACH effectively young children on up to young adults... IMO they deserve their housing packages...

and yes the children here may be well behaved as opposed to some places in the states.. Like my junior high and high school...

if you believe they are angels you are sadly mistaken...

so your saying there a cut above a stateside teacher? do we give housing allowance to stateside teachers, why give them so much? Think they come to work for dods for the housing? So be it. They are teachers and i am not. I don't pay their salaries, so enough.

I remember just a few years ago, NAF employees had to put their kids on a waiting list for base schools, majority of them had there kids in school out in town.

[hankypanky]

When i grow up i wanna be just like you SG:smile4:

[SnaFu]

The whole point is that of contractors having to pay to put their children through dodds. Granted the contractors are here by choice. But they do provide a vital role in the overall mission. Just as much if not more so than some of these GS workers who sit on their asses all day trying to figure out a way to justify their existance until they reach retirement. Some GS workers, not all. The pentagon always boasts about the total force concept which includes contractors who free up more service members for the fight.

Do GS workers who get free schooling for their children? Yes
What about Dodds teachers? I'm curious as to where their children go to school and who picks up the tab along with the free housing.

Somebody, please present a good argument as to why other civilian components of the military get free schooling for their children and contractors don't other than the parrent company knows they have you buy the short hairs because they know you need a job and the contract goes to the lowest bidder. Again... Low man on the totem pole takes it in the ass and because he is overseas he don't even have a voice.

Dependant schoolingt should be written into the contract as a government provided service for SOFA status dependants and maybe in some cases non-SOFA depending on the situation.

By the way good point RB. The government bails out the big money instititions with billions of out tax dollars but can't pay for schools. Total bullshit! They are printing money out of thin air anyway so we may as well all be able to enjoy the ride before the whole system goes tits up.

[dk]

lets hate everyone that might just do a little bit better than you for no good reason..
Might as well. Usually happens anyway.

[dk]

Somebody, please present a good argument as to why other civilian components of the military get free schooling for their children and contractors don't other than the parrent company knows they have you buy the short hairs because they know you need a job and the contract goes to the lowest bidder. Again... Low man on the totem pole takes it in the ass and because he is overseas he don't even have a voice.
Wait, what? Civilian components of the military? How do I get one of these gigs?! lol

[dk]

hold on i thought none of these guys would want their kids going to dodds schools anyway....


so.... why are they bitching?:scratchchin:
Because Okinawan educations are constantly the worst in the country. lolol.

[dk]

i find it funny when half assed english teachers in japan try to slam on dodds teachers...

"In the land of the blind the man with one eye is king!"
I hate when English teachers in Japan try to come across as real teachers. lolol

[P_chan]

You must never forget the gaijin hierarchy! It's not their fault, JET teachers are just superior to the rest of the gaijin (according to them).

[dk]

You must never forget the gaijin hierarchy! It's not their fault, JET teachers are just superior to the rest of the gaijin (according to them).
No they're not. IT workers are ahead of English teachers in Japan. In fact, entry level IT workers are ahead of English teachers in Japan. lol

And don't forget about the vast number of deadbeat entrepreneurs we have out here! :D lol (Not talking about the ones on this forum who have actually had success. Talking about the ones who print out their own business cards and call themselves consultants. lol)

[P_chan]

No they're not. IT workers are ahead of English teachers in Japan. In fact, entry level IT workers are ahead of English teachers in Japan. lol

And don't forget about the vast number of deadbeat entrepreneurs we have out here! :D lol (Not talking about the ones on this forum who have actually had success. Talking about the ones who print out their own business cards and call themselves consultants. lol)

See, every gaijin is at the top of their own version of the gaijin hierarchy list:)

[DougP]

Talking about the ones who print out their own business cards and call themselves consultants. lol)

Speaking of business cards... LOL

[dk]

Speaking of business cards... LOL
Haha, yeah, have to give you and the mods those. Those are business-card sized flyers, not business cards. lol. Big difference. And we didn't print them at home.

[dk]

See, every gaijin is at the top of their own version of the gaijin hierarchy list:)
Oh, no. It's a verifiable fact! Ask around! Get a networking professional from Citigroup and sit him down next to a Jet teacher from Oroku (or wherever) and watch how things flow. lol

[DougP]

Haha, yeah, have to give you and the mods those. Those are business-card sized flyers, not business cards. lol. Big difference. And we didn't print them at home.

Better yet! :D :first:

[dk]

Better yet! :D :first:
I'm ashamed to have a super mod who can't tell the difference between a business card and a business card sized flyer. lol

[DougP]

I'm ashamed to have a super mod who can't tell the difference between a business card and a business card sized flyer. lol

Perhaps its because the admin kept calling them business cards. Damn language barrier. :D Oooh and mistook the JU business cards on my desk for one of the new "business cards" you keep talking about.

[dk]

Perhaps its because the admin kept calling them business cards. Damn language barrier. :D
You can't prove it! Deny, deny, deny!!!!

[canjap02]

Because Okinawan educations are constantly the worst in the country. lolol.

Ill agree with that, hell the fools highered me didnt they. Not to say myself and some of the other english teachers in japan are totally incompetent. I may not be a `real teacher` but Im good at what I do, my kids are happy and learn alot more then most of the schools I visit.

[dk]

my kids are happy and learn alot more then most of the schools I visit.
Based on quantifiable data?

[DougP]

Ill agree with that, hell the fools highered me didnt they. Not to say myself and some of the other english teachers in japan are totally incompetent. I may not be a `real teacher` but Im good at what I do, my kids are happy and learn alot more then most of the schools I visit.


See me after class. :grin1:

[canjap02]

Based on quantifiable data?

based on the yearly tests. The same test is given to all schools, and from the others schools Ive visited (which isnt all of them) I have found my two schools test higher. Plus after watching other schools its seems to me that my kids participate more in class.

[uriel]

Ill agree with that, hell the fools highered me didnt they. Not to say myself and some of the other english teachers in japan are totally incompetent. I may not be a `real teacher` but Im good at what I do, my kids are happy and learn alot more then most of the schools I visit.

i can understand not punctuating and capitalizing, but can you AT LEAST use the correct words? what kind of english are you teaching?

[canjap02]

See me after class. :grin1:

I Did say not Totally incompetent ;) Plus I stay away from teaching spelling, cause I suck at it.:smile4:

[Richard Burns]

If you guys are talking about ALTs vs DoDDs teachers there is no comparrison.

DoDDs teachers have Master's degrees, are certified to teach in at least one of the 50 states IIRC, have teaching experience with a district IIRC, their degrees are usually in education or in the filed they're teaching and they recieve specialized training in how to help kids cope with the military lifestyle.

ALTs many times are still college students and teach while going to school or hold degrees in things other than education. Also they at the equivelent to a teacher's aide. A lot of trainng seminars, workshops and OTJ training is involved.

In short of course a DoDDs teacher is waaay more qualified and should be. They are licensed teachers and ALTs are not.

If I worked on base I would never send my kids to DoDDs schools not because I'm bashing them but I want my kids to learn Japanese and be as Japanese as possible since we're here forever.

[canjap02]

If you guys are talking about ALTs vs DoDDs teachers there is no comparrison.

DoDDs teachers have Master's degrees, are certified to teach in at least one of the 50 states IIRC, have teaching experience with a district IIRC, their degrees are usually in education or in the filed they're teaching and they recieve specialized training in how to help kids cope with the military lifestyle.

ALTs many times are still college students and teach while going to school or hold degrees in things other than education. Also they at the equivelent to a teacher's aide. A lot of trainng seminars, workshops and OTJ training is involved.

In short of course a DoDDs teacher is waaay more qualified and should be. They are licensed teachers and ALTs are not.

If I worked on base I would never send my kids to DoDDs schools not because I'm bashing them but I want my kids to learn Japanese and be as Japanese as possible since we're here forever.

Good post RB, but I have to point out, just having a degree in teaching (opposed to for ex. my masters in criminology) does NOT make you a good teacher. Me I do this cause there isnt much else to do here on island. (and im ok at it) Take a look at my brother for ex. he doesnt have a degree (although he is working on it) but has been an ALT and a private english school owner for about 12yrs. He is a great english teacher. he is a hell of a lot better then any english teacher ive met so far. ( my brother never did very good in school but in his time here he has mastered japanese and hogan. Owns and runs two successful school and has a student base of a little over 200.) He loves teaching, that is probably what makes him so good.

My general point being, ya you can be smart enough to pay the teachers exam but that in no way makes you a good teacher.

People are always putting down ALTs and private english teachers (ya a lot blow) but some are probably some of the best teachers you ever met.

last but not least, ya never send your kids to an on base school if your going to always be here. If your kids stay here there whole life an on base school wont help them get a job in the japanese market aswell as a japanese based education would.

[Richard Burns]

People that put down ALTs have no clue how it works and assume "so and so only has his AA degree. He can't teach English".

They don't know that the other teachers and the principal and vice principal write evaluations on you to the Board of Education or how ALTs are observed by the Board of Education randomly.

In short it comes down to people assuming.

[Richard Burns]

well ill be damned...

its all good for Party A to assume asinine shit... but when parties B- Z assume shit about Party A then its a problem??!!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


Did you even read my first post?

Of course it's wrong for both sides to assume. I didn't excusivly say that because if anyone thinks an ALT is more qualified than a DoDDs teacher they're smoking crack.

I think I stuck up for DoDDs quite nicely earlier.

[SnaFu]

like i said... all contracts are different... some contracts do pay for dependant schooling and whatnot...

as i said before what happens quite often is that the employee pockets the moeny allocated for the schooling of their kid...

the govt is paying the contractor that money.... the contractor divvies it up into their packages.. the employee.. depending on the job and package makes the final decision wether they are gonna use the money or pocket it...

i am not one to stick up for the gov bailing out the big dogs in any way....

but unless you are blind.... the MAJOR defense contractors ARE the big dogs.... and i am not talking about the local nickel and dime contractors here...

i am talking the Raytheons, the Lockheed Martins and so forth... these are the people you should be pissed off at... all the perks and entitlements for positions that are contracted out are paid for by the gov... its on the company to exercise due diligence and take care of its employees...

i am not sure if their is a Dept of Labor representative out here or assigned to this region.. but if there are valid violations of the contracting process going on then they need to know about it... they WILL get to the bottom of it and if the contractor is doing some BS shady shit with the Govts money... then they will pay the price...

i have been down that road and walked that path... and got paid in the end along with a whole bunch of other people when the CONTRACTOR decided to nickle and dime and not operate IAW with the contract as written...

in some instances the contractor pays for general schooling... that doesnt necessarily mean DoDDs...

a contractor is a contractor is a contractor... period.. even as a civil service worker you have to sign some oath of allegiance affadavit or whatever... not sure about NAF...

I am not talking about the nickel and dime local contractors. There are however the small business 8A set aside contracts where the contracts are written that the government will not pay for dependant schools. These are stateside companies who usually get stuck under Article XIV of the SOFA. Many times these contracts start out with good perks and bennies for the employees but as the contracts come up for re-bid the bennies begin to disappear as the lowest bidder usually gets the contract. The companies who win the bids in so many words say that if you want to keep your job and be hired on for the next contract to suck it up. It would take a small book to spell out all the specifics but I am sure that someone will pick this apart totally missing the point I am trying to make. When we bring up department of labor issues we are told that they do not apply because we are overseas. Long story.

If you know for sure that a Dept of Labor claim can be made against these 8A contracts please shed some light. Many people here would be in your debt.

[Okiman]

pffft....


One thing about the contractors and the price of school here... If you dont like it.. suck it up and go back to the states and put your kid in public school... for free (tax $$)

oh.. i am sorry.. you cant or wont go back for whatever is the reason why you are here on oki as a civi contractor anyway (the sun and great beaches):rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


Not complaining because the tax breaks that we get is more than enough to pay for the schooling so it is like getting free tuition. No need to go back to the states :D.

[Okiman]

like i said... all contracts are different... some contracts do pay for dependant schooling and whatnot...

as i said before what happens quite often is that the employee pockets the moeny allocated for the schooling of their kid...

the govt is paying the contractor that money.... the contractor divvies it up into their packages.. the employee.. depending on the job and package makes the final decision wether they are gonna use the money or pocket it...

i am not one to stick up for the gov bailing out the big dogs in any way....

but unless you are blind.... the MAJOR defense contractors ARE the big dogs.... and i am not talking about the local nickel and dime contractors here...

i am talking the Raytheons, the Lockheed Martins and so forth... these are the people you should be pissed off at... all the perks and entitlements for positions that are contracted out are paid for by the gov... its on the company to exercise due diligence and take care of its employees...

i am not sure if their is a Dept of Labor representative out here or assigned to this region.. but if there are valid violations of the contracting process going on then they need to know about it... they WILL get to the bottom of it and if the contractor is doing some BS shady shit with the Govts money... then they will pay the price...

i have been down that road and walked that path... and got paid in the end along with a whole bunch of other people when the CONTRACTOR decided to nickle and dime and not operate IAW with the contract as written...

in some instances the contractor pays for general schooling... that doesnt necessarily mean DoDDs...

a contractor is a contractor is a contractor... period.. even as a civil service worker you have to sign some oath of allegiance affadavit or whatever... not sure about NAF...


Great points. Onething that I have noticed with the larger contractors is that it is the actual employer that pays the schools directly as a benifit to their employees, so it might seem that they are getting free schooling when it is just a benifit.

[dk]

People that put down ALTs have no clue how it works and assume "so and so only has his AA degree. He can't teach English".

They don't know that the other teachers and the principal and vice principal write evaluations on you to the Board of Education or how ALTs are observed by the Board of Education randomly.

In short it comes down to people assuming.

I was an AET for two years. Easiest job in the world. Couldn't screw up if I tried.

Was a lot of fun.

When people treat you like a celebrity all the time, though, people begin to think they're really hot shit awesome teachers.

[Godzilla]

You want to the difference between an ALT and a DoDDS teacher? Simple, it is about $70,000 - $80,000 a year. You can say all you want about how hard it is to be an ALT and not everyone can do it, blah, blah, blah. But at the end of the day the DoDDS teacher is getting paid the big bucks while the ALT is working for chump change.

Furthermore, every DoDDS teacher is qualified to be an ALT but I guarantee you will never find one willing to slump to the level of an ALT. And on the other hand, I would say that less than 3% of ALTs are qualified to teach at DoDDs because if they were they wouldn't work as an ALT.

[Richard Burns]

Also a DoDDs teacher is a licensed teacher. An ALT is an Assistant teacher. A DoDDs teacher is a GS. An ALT is a temporary city employee.

[SnaFu]

Not complaining because the tax breaks that we get is more than enough to pay for the schooling so it is like getting free tuition. No need to go back to the states :D.

Some state side contractors are lucky to be making 50 K / year with no housing allowance. The tax break won't come close for covering 18K tuition for one or two kids plus paying the bills.

[DougP]

Some state side contractors are lucky to be making 50 K / year with no housing allowance. The tax break won't come close for covering 18K tuition for one or two kids plus paying the bills.

Damn, if someone is going to pay 18 grand a year, out of pocket, to send their kid to school, I hope the diploma has some nice university's name on it. Come to think of it, there's quite a few universities out there that charge around half that for undergraduate tuition. High-cost state institutions charge what? 20 grand or so annually? Seems like a reasonable price for getting a degree at a nice college but not reasonable for getting through elementary school. Maybe I'm just crazy, I dunno. :)

[Richard Burns]

Some state side contractors are lucky to be making 50 K / year with no housing allowance. The tax break won't come close for covering 18K tuition for one or two kids plus paying the bills.

State side contractors' kids have public school they can go to.

I'm not sure what your trying to relay with this post.

[SnaFu]

State side contractors' kids have public school they can go to.

I'm not sure what your trying to relay with this post.

What I mean is SOFA US contractors who came from the states to work here. Not the local Non-SOFA contractors.

[Richard Burns]

I'd also argue when you join the military you don't really know what you're getting into until you're in it.

Why would I get groaned for this post? It's true. Yes you can learn every order, directive, statistics, knowledge, military operations, you can talk to different recruiters, vets and active duty folks but the fact is you really don't know if the military is for you or not until you're in it.

[Richard Burns]

RB has a solution that should make everyone happy and is fair.

For contractors to send their kids to DoDDS charge the tuition based on their income. You submit your proof of income and they make a price chart based on different salaries.

[SnaFu]

Why would I get groaned for this post? It's true. Yes you can learn every order, directive, statistics, knowledge, military operations, you can talk to different recruiters, vets and active duty folks but the fact is you really don't know if the military is for you or not until you're in it.

I noticed a trend in the short time I've been on the forum RB. Some people seem to love to break your balls!

[Richard Burns]

I noticed a trend in the short time I've been on the forum RB. Some people seem to love to break your balls!

This is true. But I will man up and say 50% of it I do bring it on myself. But the other 50% is just ppl breaking my balls.

[SnaFu]

RB has a solution that should make everyone happy and is fair.

For contractors to send their kids to DoDDS charge the tuition based on their income. You submit your proof of income and they make a price chart based on different salaries.

Thats a damn good idea but I'd be surprised to see it happen any time soon. It makes way too much sense.

[Godzilla]

The fact of the matter is that DoDEA is a private school. They can charge whatever they like. Is it too expensive - yeah it is super expensive! But IMHO I say keep it that way. If they lowered the prices then maybe they would be forced to cut those 6 figure salaries. DoDEA pays super good and they got to get that money from somewhere. So what if a contractor can't afford it! I could care less. And for those that can I am sure all the DoDEA teachers are thanking you for helping to pay their salary!!

[DougP]

The fact of the matter is that DoDEA is a private school. They can charge whatever they like. Is it too expensive - yeah it is super expensive! But IMHO I say keep it that way. If they lowered the prices then maybe they would be forced to cut those 6 figure salaries. DoDEA pays super good and they got to get that money from somewhere. So what if a contractor can't afford it! I could care less. And for those that can I am sure all the DoDEA teachers are thanking you for helping to pay their salary!!

I'm pretty sure the teachers' salary isn't dependent on a handful of contractors that pay to send their kids to school. :)

[canjap02]

You want to the difference between an ALT and a DoDDS teacher? Simple, it is about $70,000 - $80,000 a year. You can say all you want about how hard it is to be an ALT and not everyone can do it, blah, blah, blah. But at the end of the day the DoDDS teacher is getting paid the big bucks while the ALT is working for chump change.

Furthermore, every DoDDS teacher is qualified to be an ALT but I guarantee you will never find one willing to slump to the level of an ALT. And on the other hand, I would say that less than 3% of ALTs are qualified to teach at DoDDs because if they were they wouldn't work as an ALT.

Godzilla I think you missed the whole point I was trying to make. Ya a DoDDS teacher makes more and has a teachers licence, but Im not nocking that. My point is simple JUST because you have a teachers licence DOESNT make you a good teacher. you take a DoDDS english teacher and a ALT and they might be just as good a teacher as the other. The major difference is DoDDS teacher are teaching english to mostly english as a first language students, were as a ALT/or privite english teacher has to teacher to kids who dont speak english. A little harder I think.

Its not very hard to be a AET, but it can be if as the teacher you really want your students to do good. Plus a lot of the times you might be put in a school were the teaching stuff doesnt want a gaijin teaching there. Believe me that isnt fun.

[Godzilla]

Godzilla I think you missed the whole point I was trying to make. Ya a DoDDS teacher makes more and has a teachers licence, but Im not nocking that. My point is simple JUST because you have a teachers licence DOESNT make you a good teacher. you take a DoDDS english teacher and a ALT and they might be just as good a teacher as the other. The major difference is DoDDS teacher are teaching english to mostly english as a first language students, were as a ALT/or privite english teacher has to teacher to kids who dont speak english. A little harder I think.

Its not very hard to be a AET, but it can be if as the teacher you really want your students to do good. Plus a lot of the times you might be put in a school were the teaching stuff doesnt want a gaijin teaching there. Believe me that isnt fun.

I get your point, or what little bit of a point you are trying to make. So big deal - you think a teaching License does not make an individual a good teacher.

And my point is whether or not you consider a DoDEA teacher “good or bad” doesn’t really amount to a hill of beans. Because at the end of the day when all the opinions of the underpaid, under-qualified, and in most cases under-educated ALT’s are all said and done the DoDEA teacher is still the only real legitimate qualified teacher. When you apply for a “real” teaching position there is no spot on the application that says: “Check here if you are a good teacher” or “Check here if you are a bad teacher”. Nope sure isn’t, but you will find questions about your certifications, qualifications, and your education.

ALTs are a joke to the education community. They have become the default occupation of the misplaced native English speaker. When no other occupation is available while aboard you can always teach English. No qualifications or experience needed just the ability to speak English. Also, based upon your fine example of English provided above the ability to read or write is not required. I could probably train a monkey to be an ALT, whether he would be a good or bad teacher is yet to be seen.

On a side note, if you don’t mind I would like to send your above message to some of my DoDEA friends. Just so that they can read it and realize how much of a great teacher you are. I think they would get a kick out of it and it would also open their eyes to the quality of ALT’s out there.

[Richard Burns]

Godzilla I agree with pretty much all of your post but I will say an ALT is not a joke. As I posted earlier they are evaluated and if an ALT doesn't know there shit they're gone.

DoDDS teachers are better teacher because they're real teachers. To become a DoDDS teacher you need you're Masters and teaching experience and even then it's competitive.

ALTs can be hired while still in college or even with an Associate's but in any case are not teachers.


To compare a DoDDS teacher to an ALT is like comparing a PFC to a Colonel. Both are in the education field but one position is much more prestigious just as the PFC and the Colonel are both involved with the military but........you see where I'm going I hope.

[Muku]

I get your point, or what little bit of a point you are trying to make. So big deal - you think a teaching License does not make an individual a good teacher.

And my point is whether or not you consider a DoDEA teacher “good or bad” doesn’t really amount to a hill of beans. Because at the end of the day when all the opinions of the underpaid, under-qualified, and in most cases under-educated ALT’s are all said and done the DoDEA teacher is still the only real legitimate qualified teacher. When you apply for a “real” teaching position there is no spot on the application that says: “Check here if you are a good teacher” or “Check here if you are a bad teacher”. Nope sure isn’t, but you will find questions about your certifications, qualifications, and your education.

ALTs are a joke to the education community. They have become the default occupation of the misplaced native English speaker. When no other occupation is available while aboard you can always teach English. No qualifications or experience needed just the ability to speak English. Also, based upon your fine example of English provided above the ability to read or write is not required. I could probably train a monkey to be an ALT, whether he would be a good or bad teacher is yet to be seen.

On a side note, if you don’t mind I would like to send your above message to some of my DoDEA friends. Just so that they can read it and realize how much of a great teacher you are. I think they would get a kick out of it and it would also open their eyes to the quality of ALT’s out there.
How much do you actually know about what it takes to be an ALT and or where they are hired from?

There are plenty of licensed teachers working as ALT's in Japan. Don't know if you knew that or not but it is true. Also all the JET's that are working as ALT's in Japan have graduated from Universities or Colleges in their home countries prior to coming here to Japan to work in the schools here.

In my opinion your statements are overly general regarding ALT's.

Also there are some ALT's that work in schools because they like the challenges of the job and work well with kids. Not all do it because that's all there is to it.

I think you may be confusing ALT's with people who teach at eikaiwa school's. There is a difference. Oh and on a personal note here I passed on the opportunity to take a Dodd's position a number of years ago. Why you ask? At that time I had no desire to work on base AND I was making more money working for the Japanese company that I was with at the time.

I still would pass on it, because for myself at least, I dont want to have to deal with the politics and horsehit that goes along with a Dodds position, no matter what the money is.

Good teachers are dedicated to their jobs no matter what their compensation is or isnt. And just because a person on an internet forum doesnt use proper punctuation or grammar is by no means a measure of their abillity to teach or not.

I also think that you will find here in Okinawa many if not most of the people working as ALT's are more than qualified educationally to hold their positions and many as well would be qualified as well to teach at a Dodds school too.

[canjap02]

I get your point, or what little bit of a point you are trying to make. So big deal - you think a teaching License does not make an individual a good teacher.

And my point is whether or not you consider a DoDEA teacher “good or bad” doesn’t really amount to a hill of beans. Because at the end of the day when all the opinions of the underpaid, under-qualified, and in most cases under-educated ALT’s are all said and done the DoDEA teacher is still the only real legitimate qualified teacher. When you apply for a “real” teaching position there is no spot on the application that says: “Check here if you are a good teacher” or “Check here if you are a bad teacher”. Nope sure isn’t, but you will find questions about your certifications, qualifications, and your education.

ALTs are a joke to the education community. They have become the default occupation of the misplaced native English speaker. When no other occupation is available while aboard you can always teach English. No qualifications or experience needed just the ability to speak English. Also, based upon your fine example of English provided above the ability to read or write is not required. I could probably train a monkey to be an ALT, whether he would be a good or bad teacher is yet to be seen.

On a side note, if you don’t mind I would like to send your above message to some of my DoDEA friends. Just so that they can read it and realize how much of a great teacher you are. I think they would get a kick out of it and it would also open their eyes to the quality of ALT’s out there.

How many times do I have to tell people I suck at spelling?

ALT is not something anyone who speaks english can get. Every year between 100-200 people apply for the job, and like this year only 17 are hired. So you do have to know what your doing and have a good educational back ground. I may be a bad speller when Im typing fast, but I do have a masters in Criminology. My speaking ability is far above my typing ability.

I think we have gotten off track here. My original comment was based on someone saying DoDDs teachers were better teachers because they were licenced, but thats just not true for everyone.

[canjap02]

How much do you actually know about what it takes to be an ALT and or where they are hired from?

There are plenty of licensed teachers working as ALT's in Japan. Don't know if you knew that or not but it is true. Also all the JET's that are working as ALT's in Japan have graduated from Universities or Colleges in their home countries prior to coming here to Japan to work in the schools here.

In my opinion your statements are overly general regarding ALT's.

Also there are some ALT's that work in schools because they like the challenges of the job and work well with kids. Not all do it because that's all there is to it.

I think you may be confusing ALT's with people who teach at eikaiwa school's. There is a difference. Oh and on a personal note here I passed on the opportunity to take a Dodd's position a number of years ago. Why you ask? At that time I had no desire to work on base AND I was making more money working for the Japanese company that I was with at the time.

I still would pass on it, because for myself at least, I dont want to have to deal with the politics and horsehit that goes along with a Dodds position, no matter what the money is.

Good teachers are dedicated to their jobs no matter what their compensation is or isnt. And just because a person on an internet forum doesnt use proper punctuation or grammar is by no means a measure of their abillity to teach or not.

I also think that you will find here in Okinawa many if not most of the people working as ALT's are more than qualified educationally to hold their positions and many as well would be qualified as well to teach at a Dodds school too.

wow will you marry me. you just said everything I wanted to, but with getting your point across much better then I ever could in writing.

[dk]

wow will you marry me. you just said everything I wanted to, but with getting your point across much better then I ever could in writing.
That's why it pays for English teachers to be proficient in their own language. Like Muku. You can write more good den!

[Muku]

wow will you marry me. you just said everything I wanted to, but with getting your point across much better then I ever could in writing.


Only if you promise not to eat cookies in bed!:D\:-)

Seriously though, I understood the point you were trying to make and I agree with what you had to say as well.

Unfortunately there is a kernel of truth to what Godzilla wrote about some ALT's or if I was not mistaken trying to read between the lines a bit from his post, that eikaiwa teachers are a joke.

There are a few of them that have caused many others in similar positions undue scrutiny. Guilty by association kind of thinking.

Kind of like what often happens here in Okinawa when a military member goes off the reservation and does something stupid. All get branded for the actions of a few.

[Richard Burns]

l..

the fact of the matter is many of the people who are here as contractors... sofa or non sofa are here entirely of their own accord...
So are the GS people.
The only people that might be here against there will are active duty military.

[Crazysix]

So are the GS people.
The only people that might be here against there will are active duty military.

not true, I know contractors that were moved here or be fired, that fits into "against your will theory"

[Richard Burns]

That's not against his will C6. That's given the choice move here or get fired or quit. Unlike the military where you indentured to Uncl Sam for x amount of years and you do what they say and go where you're sent and that's it.

[P_chan]

That's not against his will C6. That's given the choice move here or get fired or quit. Unlike the military where you indentured to Uncl Sam for x amount of years and you do what they say and go where you're sent and that's it.

Yeah but if you REALLY didn't want to go somewhere or do something in the military you can always just be a **** up and get kicked out.

[SnaFu]

Close DoDDS and sent all the kids to OCSI at evryones own expense. If you can't afford it the kids can help the ojiis cut sugar cane in the fields and put down the shima after work.

[canjap02]

Only if you promise not to eat cookies in bed!:D\:-)

Seriously though, I understood the point you were trying to make and I agree with what you had to say as well.

Unfortunately there is a kernel of truth to what Godzilla wrote about some ALT's or if I was not mistaken trying to read between the lines a bit from his post, that eikaiwa teachers are a joke.

There are a few of them that have caused many others in similar positions undue scrutiny. Guilty by association kind of thinking.

Kind of like what often happens here in Okinawa when a military member goes off the reservation and does something stupid. All get branded for the actions of a few.

I have nothing against DoDDa teachers, and never said I did. I see what Godzilla was saying. I was only pointing out just being a DoDDs teacher doesnt make you an automatic good teacher.

I agree some ALTs are a complete joke. As for Eikaiwas, ya most of the teacher there are just sucking up time. But not all, as like I posted previously about my older brother.

[Richard Burns]

Im not sure if this is true but if it is then America's schools are even more ****** than I thought.

This is what I was told from some dude so take it with a grain of salt.

Dude said this company English teaching company called Nova hired with this criteria.

If an American applied they had to have a 4 year degree in either English or Education.
If an Australian applied they only had to have a 2 year degree in anything.
If a British person applies thy only need a high school diploma.

Now like I said I only heard this from sme dude. I no nothing a about Nova. If there's truth to this or not I don't know.

[SnaFu]

so using your logic.... if everyone here is here by their own will.. voluntarily...(except active duty) for whatever reason (sun and beautiful beaches):rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

****4 smileys for that one...

why in the hell do you feel as though contractors should be entitled to Dodds tuition or whatever it is you are arguing for...???

they willingly and knowingly moved or stayed here for (see above reason) knowing full and god damn well all the hard ships that entails...

Just curious... Do you think GS workers should also be entitled to DoDDS at tax payers expense or is that option just reserved for military dependants?

[canjap02]

Im not sure if this is true but if it is then America's schools are even more ****** than I thought.

This is what I was told from some dude so take it with a grain of salt.

Dude said this company English teaching company called Nova hired with this criteria.

If an American applied they had to have a 4 year degree in either English or Education.
If an Australian applied they only had to have a 2 year degree in anything.
If a British person applies thy only need a high school diploma.

Now like I said I only heard this from sme dude. I no nothing a about Nova. If there's truth to this or not I don't know.

I have no idea about Nova either, but didnt they go under like a year back. If Nova was owned by a British guy, ya I can see it only being high school. Although it would be baised.

[Richard Burns]

I get you but so did the GS people. What makes the GS people any different than a contractor.

Yes I know GS is DoD and a contractor is hired by a private company.

But when ya get down to th real meat and potatos thure both civilans and both are here by choice.

All I was saying is there both here by choice.

[DougP]

they willingly and knowingly moved or stayed here for (see above reason) knowing full and god damn well all the hard ships that entails...

I know some GS and military folks that fit into that same category as well. :) I hope that isn't the determining factor on who qualifies for free tuition or not. Imagine if the government found out that they were here voluntarily and liked it, they'd be screwed. lol. I wonder if its more of a rationing/space available thing. You know, military and their dependents get priority because they are the main reason why all the supporting facilities and jobs are here in the first place. Everything else gets sorted after they are taken care of.

[Richard Burns]

Im not bitching. I just like devmbating this issue. Off topic but I don't like so many GS anyway. They're taking away jobs from active duty and forcing them into field MOSs.

[SnaFu]

actually i see no problem with US civil service workers assigned or employed overseas having DoDDs benefits at taxpayers expense...

its no different than public schools in the states... you pay taxes and shit gets funded...

the whole tax defense is dodgy in the first place.. i have yet to see anyone successfully track down where exactly there tax dollars went...

now i have not been a contractor over here in okinawa.. so i am not sure.. but i have heard people say they pay no us taxes and some say they do...

if they dont pay any taxes... then WTF is the problem... if they do pay taxes... then you have no idea what those taxes are going to in all actuality...

but as i said... the same ones in this thread bitching about this dodds tuition are the ones who say they wouldnt send their kids to dodds schools anyway... (or so it seems)

Well... Your entitled to you opinion. It's all good.

But I have to disagree. I think anyone working overseas to support the US military as a SOFA staus employee should have free schooloing for there dependants. They are held accountable to every other retarded restriction placed on SOFA status personnel. For anyone who argues that the taxpayers shouldn't be burdebed with the cost... Give me a break. Our government probably pisses away more tax payer dollars in a week providing services to non American citizens throughout the world than it would cost per year paying for schooling for SOFA staus dependants regardless of purpose being overseas.

IMHO

[SnaFu]

Like I said before.. as a US federal Employee you are required to take an oath of allegiance to support and defend the constitution...

It is no way as near as cut and dry as you try to make it seem RB...

Using your logic.. our President should not have any entitlements due to him being a civilian..

There are certain benefits and privileges afforded to Federal Workers overseas and DoDDs tuition is one of them...

Period...

Some of our presidents should have been put in jail.

[Godzilla]

Im not bitching. I just like devmbating this issue. Off topic but I don't like so many GS anyway. They're taking away jobs from active duty and forcing them into field MOSs.

Negative, GS is great. Whats not to like about it. Good pay, easy work, nice bennies. So what you take a job away from an active duty, if active duty could do their job half as efficient as a GS then maybe they would have to worry about loosing it.

[SnaFu]

I don't believe I ever made a post saying that I would not want to send my kids to DoDDS. In fact I did send to DoDDS and had to pay the redicoulus cost until I could no longer afford it.

The point I am trying to make is that if someone is here SOFA then they should get the bennies. Because if they are SOFA they are considered part of the civilian component of the US military.

FYI: If a contractor is making enough money to afford to sustainably send his children to DoDDS schools you can bet your ass that he's paying taxes because he is making well over the overseas tax exemption limit.

I would also be willing to bet that when the big time companies pay the tuition for their employees the cost is in fact passed onto the government in the contract price and they are more than likely adding on additional costs on top of it. It probably costs the government more money in the long run.

[SnaFu]

good post...

i am not saying that contractors SHOULDNT have free DoDDs tuition...

but they should fall in the appropriate place... active duty - fed civv- then space A contractors...

as far as who pays for it.. thats between the govt and the contracted company... lack of funds for the schooling.. you can probably point the finger at the contracted company more often than not...

as far as contractors being a component of the DoD or US military... nope...
attached to the military yeah...

Please read article I and XIV of the SOFA.

[Richard Burns]

how do you figure they are taking jobs away from the military...

dude.. they are freeing up the military to conduct its wartime mission...

and these decisions are made by people with stars... so your hate and discontent with the us federal civilians is way misplaced...

damn dog.. it has to be tough in this world full of color when all you see is black or white... and not at the same time....

What are you talking about dude. I don't hate DoD civilians and many are vets themselves so that's stupid.

I hate DoD and the way DoD does business.

For one thing I think the military should be self sufficient or at least should try to go in that direction.

I said I hate so many meaning I hate there's so many attacche to the units not actually hate them.

[SnaFu]

http://www.niraikanai.wwma.net/pages/archive/sofa.html

ARTICLE I

In this Agreement the expression -


(a) "members of the United States armed forces" means the personnel on active duty belonging to the land, sea or air armed services of the United States of America when in the territory of Japan.

(b) "civilian component" means the civilian persons of United States nationality who are in the employ of, serving with, or accompanying the United States armed forces in Japan, but ex-cludes persons who are ordinarily resident in Japan or who are mentioned in paragraph 1 of Article XIV. For the purposes of this Agreement only, dual nationals, United States and Japanese, who are brought to Japan by the United States shall be considered as United States nationals.
(c) "dependents" means
Spouse, and children under 21;
Parents, and children over 21, if dependent for over half their support upon a member of the United States armed forces or civilian component.


ARTICLE XIV

1. Persons, including corporations organized under the laws of the United States, and their employees who are ordinarily resident in the United States and whose presence in Japan is solely for the purpose of executing contracts with the United States for the benefit of the United States armed forces, and who are designated by the Government of the United States in accordance with the provisions of paragraph 2 below, shall, except as provided in this Article, be subject to the laws and regulations of Japan.

2. The designation referred to in paragraph 1 above shall be made upon consultation with the Government of Japan and shall be restricted to cases where open competitive bidding is not practicable due to security considerations, to the technical qualifications of the contractors involved, or to the unavailability of materials or services required by United States standards, or to limitations of United States law.

[Richard Burns]

You do realize that if everything associated with the defense of our country was straight military that would equal epic fail...

so they should have an MOS,AFSC, or Navy Rate for every job within the DOD...

R U serious... impossible...

WoW...

in what universe do you think that would work?

That's why is said or at least ahold try to go in that direction.

[Jazz]

I hope when I have kids I will be just as passionate and knowledgable about this stuff as you guys...then again maybe I don't...based on a brief skim, it appears stressful...:)..

Ignorance is bliss.

[Richard Burns]

I think the authors of the SOFA made it so hard to understand on purpose. Bastards.

[SnaFu]

I think the authors of the SOFA made it so hard to understand on purpose. Bastards.

It helps to read it if you have a beer or twenty first. :D

Unfortunately I spent more time reading that damn thing than I care to remember. Probably why I can't stand reading anymore. SOFA PTSD flashbacks.

[Richard Burns]

to try to go in that direction would make absolutley no sense..

you would be putting the costs associated with an initiative like that would be so staggering i dont even wanna think about it... more debt more debt..

so lets have a bigger military.. you do realize any modern military MUST have a civilian workforce supporting it...

if you dont understand that nor agree with that statement then i am sorry RB.. i can no longer debate with you on this subject...


I do agree with you.

But in the past the military was more self sufficient.

It's not a debate either it's all just IMHO.

[Richard Burns]

Also it would save money to make the militry bigger.

Remember military guys don't get paid overtime, get paid less, do more than jar their job. I'd say all this contracting out and GS is costing more.

[Richard Burns]

That's a funny pic first of all. Like I said I so agree with you and still have my own opinion so that's that.

[SnaFu]

That's a funny pic first of all. Like I said I so agree with you and still have my own opinion so that's that.

I think there is an amendment to tha Japanese Constitution that states people with avatars without ears on forums are not entitled to an opinion.

I could be wrong... Maybe someone can google it.

[Richard Burns]

^ Thats true on JU anyway lmao.

[ryukyuboi]

I'm pretty sure the teachers' salary isn't dependent on a handful of contractors that pay to send their kids to school. :)

I believe the salaries of DoDDS teachers are based on the average of the top 10 largest school districts in the USA - urban areas like Los Angeles and New York. Urban school districts often offer lower salaries for teachers compared to the salaries of teachers in the more suburban areas of the USA.

[SnaFu]

I heard that Kubasaki is going to Henoko and Futenma is going to the housing side of Foster by bldg 1.

[Richard Burns]

DoDDS teachers are GS 10 and above iirc.

[Godzilla]

DoDDS teachers are GS 10 and above iirc.

Yeah but most are 13's. Only the newbies are 10. After all the bennies are thrown in (they get on hell of a housing allowance sometimes like $4,000 a month) they are looking at about $80,000 - $100,000 a year. It really is one of the best gigs on island. And the job security is out of this world.

True story, I know a DoDEA teacher that was well into her 80’s and still teaching. She was falling asleep in class and the students were doing whatever they wanted. Well, she got fired and sent back to the states. She then sued DoDEA and won. DoDEA was forced to pay her 1.5 million and rehire her. So she comes back to Okinawa and they give her a promotion. She is now at district office at Tori Station. She has no responsibilities all she has to do is sit at a desk and collect a paycheck.

[Richard Burns]

It's all good. As they say education pays.

[DoctorP]

DoDDS teachers are GS 10 and above iirc.

DoDDs teachers are GS-nothings...different pay scale completely.