Hunt Whales in Okinawan Waters [Archive]

TheNoNamedOne

06-13-2007, 05:03 PM

Japan gets a lot of criticism for their 'scientific research" whale hunts in the Antarctic. Every year from December to April a number of humpack whales arrive in the waters between the Keramas and Okinawa's mainland.

Out of a gesture of good will to other countries nearby where Japan hunts (Australia and New Zealand), Japan should kill one, two, or five (you know, harvesting what is sustainable) in Okinawan waters. That way Japan can say they are willing to do in their yards what they do near the back yards of others.

I think the whale watching industries from tourists that have sprung up here, should not be protected from the hunt. Saying it is ok to hunt whales near the whale watching industries of New Zealand and Australia, but not in Okinawa, is hypocritical -- particularly since Japan just recently announced that this year, for the first time in many years, they would include humpback whales in their Antarctic hunt -- the same kind of whale which migrates to Okinawa for the whale watching industry here.

What do you say? Japan should hunt Okinawan whales while they are here and easy to get at. With me on this?

xxzjxx

06-14-2007, 05:55 PM

I'm not really big into the whole Wale hunting scene, but is this a pretty big problem in the Western Pacific? Growing up, I always heard that there were too many wales being killed for sashimi, but in some cases, I've heard that hunting certain animals has been a good thing.

Take the bald eagle for example. They have made such a good comeback, that in one town (Dont ask where i read it a long time ago) they had a huge overpopulation of the bird.

Personally, I think its sad when it comes down to killing something that valuable. A whale an eagle.. Fish? ehh.... not so much. Unless its a furry fish, now THAT would be awesome.

06-14-2007, 08:52 PM

Well, whales are kind of like furry fish!

But yeah TP (can i start calling you that for short? :( Freakin long name) I'm KIND.... OF.... with you on this one. However, you do have to kind of understand what's going on in the Okinawans' minds. I think they at least try to believe that they're trying to boost tourism on Okinawa, and it'd be kind of going against that whole idea of trying to try if they started killing whales near the hotspot whale watching areas.

I think Japan should just get with the program and stop killing endangered species for food. And I think the rest of the world should SOMEHOW be a little more stern with Japan on this.

bokuwa

06-17-2007, 12:11 PM

Out of respect to the culture, maybe, let them kill a couple of whales not a lot.
Have a lot of international monitoring to ensure the Japanese keep to whatever agreement.

Asshat

06-25-2007, 10:40 AM

Heck no! First off, the whales through here are not here in prolific numbers. Secondly, the assholes out there running the tour boats up on the herd are the ones who should be hunted.

They are fishermen the rest of the year, but this has gone out of control!

TheNoNamedOne

06-25-2007, 12:42 PM

Heck no! First off, the whales through here are not here in prolific numbers.

Why must they be in "prolific" numbers? Why not just an adequate number to allow a sustainable population through a limited hunt?

What is the number of whales that pass through the area? Surely one, two, or five could be taken in view of tourist boats to let them see and understand the culinary and cultural history of Japan without decimating the herd. You know, pride in culture and letting the world and its tourists see it (i.e. slaughtering)up close.

I don't think those enjoying whale sashimi in izakayas or restaurants are getting the full affect of culture sitting in smoking rooms peering down at their pinching chopsticks.

Asshat

06-25-2007, 01:12 PM

I see your point.

I suppose spearing a mother with a year-old calf with a deck-mounted pneumatic gun and then dragging them the five miles to Zamami harbor and depositing the bloody mess on the Zamami Queen dock would go a long ways towards promoting Japan's right to continue historically important whale killing.

I get so angry at the sightseeing boats out there. I always had my own boats in which to go, but I can not bear to see it anymore. They run spotter boats out which track the herd, then radio to the tour operators. They pretty much drive right on them. Perhaps as more and more Japanese have the chance to see these animals, their desire to see them between their ohashi will diminish.

Talindra

07-01-2007, 07:03 PM

Japan catches hundreds of whales every year, mainly from the South Pacific population of Minke Whales. The purpose of this is hotly, and perhaps irreconcilably, disputed by the pro- and anti-whaling lobbies. The Japanese government maintains that its whaling program is purely in the interest of science, as is permitted under the International Convention on the Regulation of Whaling. Those opposed to Japanese whaling, such as the governments of New Zealand, Australia and the United States and other countries say that Japan's whaling program is thinly disguised and subsidised commercial whaling.
Japan is adamant in its belief that a commercial hunt of Minke Whales, and potentially other species, would be sustainable. Japan's desire to restart its commercial whaling is evidenced by its annual petition to the International Whaling Commission requesting that a quota for a commercial Minke Whale hunt be given. Although the IWC General Committee is split roughly 50-50 on whether commercial whaling should recommence, the petition has not yet come close to passing because significant change to the moratorium requires a 75% majority under IWC rules.
(found this on wiki)

I think, if not for science, then hunting whales is down right stupid. They mate like onces every 3 years or something. have only 1 calf (baby) at a time....and if by some bad luck one whale ends up on a beach...its cries bring the rest of its err...pod (?) to the shore and they all die there. and thats what? 20 dead whales right there ? I don't know if every spiecies of whale does it...but its a damn sad thing. And it sure as hell not worth killing for food...when you got chicken or beef...and those wont ever run out.
well thats what i think.. -_-;;;

08-26-2007, 12:05 AM

Thought TP might enjoy this one as it has a lot to do with his original post.

Whale harpooned, hauled in by Japanese boat in front of whale-watching touristsSAPPORO -- Eco-tourists on a whale-watching vessel, looking forward to observing the mighty creatures in their natural habitat, were instead greeted by the sight of a harpooned whale being dragged in by a Japanese whaling vessel on Friday.

At about 10:44 a.m. on Friday, a whale was spotted spraying water from its blowhole near a whaling boat, about 3.5 kilometers away from the whale-watching vessel off the coast of Hokkaido's Shiretoko Peninsula. But when the vessel approached, the passengers on board found that the whalers had harpooned the Baird's beaked whale, and it was hauled in by the whaling boat about 20 minutes later.
http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/national/news/20070825p2a00m0na039000c.html

ryukyuboi

08-26-2007, 05:23 AM

Stop the killing of dolphins, whales and other marine mammals. Please send an email to the Japanese government officials and let them know the slaughtering will not be tolerated.

The Japanese Government:
http://www.kantei.go.jp/foreign/forms/comment.html

The Japanese Embassy, Washington, D.C.
jicc@embjapan.org

Peace.

P_chan

08-26-2007, 10:16 AM

TheNoNamedOne

08-26-2007, 06:07 PM

LOL that made me laugh!

Just curious, P, what part of the story was it that caused you to laugh? Or was it just the thought that people, including children accompanying their parents, expecting to see whales swimming, were instead treated to being showed whales being killed?

I am just trying to understand the humor caused from expectations dashed in lieu of shock from killing. If a child was taken on a bird watching trip by her father to view bald eagles flying majestically, and while she was looking at it through binoculars it was shot dead, I don't think that would be humoruous. Would you laugh in her face about it?

Though, I don't doubt some would indeed do so.

Asking japanese people to stop eating something from the ocean is like asking them to stop being japanese.

Not at all. For a while (several years) they did discontinue hunting whales (in the 80s if I recall), but they did not discontinue being Japanese then, and their Japanese culture surely did not collapse. They got along quite well as a nation without whaling then.

No reason to think that they could not do so now, too.

P_chan

08-26-2007, 09:28 PM

yes I would laugh in her face tp. Kids today are too sheltered if you ask me. That why they grow up and become wussy adults.

I'm not saying give your kid a knife and throw him out into the wilderness. But the world isn't all fuzzy little animals that talk to each other and are friends. If a child happened to see something like that, just explain it to them the best that you can. Like I said before, the world isn't all sunshine and farts.

08-26-2007, 09:54 PM

So P_chan, you're all for taking preschool kids to slaughter houses?

socalheart

08-26-2007, 10:06 PM

To see a child crying about what could possibly be the killing of an animal, and then laughing at or in the face of the child is not necessarily "toughening up" a child, it is very often considered disrespectful. For me, this is a matter of respect of a person's feelings about death.

I don't know what practical purpose killing a whale serves. Once upon a time, killing whales had practical purposes to humans. What practical purposes does it serve now? Due to the low numbers of whales in the world's oceans, I'm currently against whale hunting. If there were a successful way to breed them in captivity for food, as is done with cows and such, then those "whale farms" would be able to supply the world's desire for whale bits, and hunting them in the wild wouldn't be necessary.

I'm not saying that entire cultures must change to fit the world's latest fad "save the blank" crusade. As previously stated, countries have found alternatives to foodstuffs, like imitation crab, without extinguishing whole cultures or global diets. There's going to be a point when we run out of certain animals that can't be bred in a farm type environment.

TheNoNamedOne

08-26-2007, 11:22 PM

Muku

08-26-2007, 11:47 PM

So P_chan, you're all for taking preschool kids to slaughter houses?
I have no problem with taking my kids to a slaughter house , if they are educated to know what they are seeing before they are taken there.

newvalor

08-27-2007, 03:14 AM

I have no problem with taking my kids to a slaughter house , if they are educated to know what they are seeing before they are taken there.

X2, exactly as I would put it. Explaining how the death of an animal contributes to the living of another animal or human would be a great way in helping a child understand. Besides, I've already seen a few sites post that Japan has another overabundance of whale meat/blubber again this yr, so of course innocent whales had to die, again...

Killing whales in my eyes is bad, as there are fewer and fewer every yr. What possible science could you perform on a whale in the first place???

I'm sick and tired of people always complaining about hurt feelings or being offended. it's how you grow thicker skin and they can deal with problems later in life, rather than be some wussy kid/adult. I don't care what people think of me or my thoughts because they are mine, if somebody has a problem with them, Oh Well it's the internet in the first place.

08-27-2007, 03:22 AM

I have no problem with taking my kids to a slaughter house , if they are educated to know what they are seeing before they are taken there.
The reason I ask the question: http://www.japanupdate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=455&page=7 starting at post 67.

TP felt that rather than take kids to dig up sweet potatos in pre-school, they should be taken to watch cows and other animals be slaughtered. Was just trying to see if you guys had something in common. Apparently you do.

TheNoNamedOne

08-27-2007, 03:40 AM

TP felt that rather than take kids to dig up sweet potatos in pre-school, they should be taken to watch cows and other animals be slaughtered.

I thought I had posed it as "why not?" Not in the sense of suggesting to do it, but "why don't they if blah blah blah?" Perhaps I could have worded it better.

That was a long exchange of posts if I recall. Perhaps someone will feel like starting that up again. At the moment, I am not up to it. But will, if someone does decide to.

Muku

08-27-2007, 05:57 AM

The reason I ask the question: http://www.japanupdate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=455&page=7 starting at post 67.

TP felt that rather than take kids to dig up sweet potatos in pre-school, they should be taken to watch cows and other animals be slaughtered. Was just trying to see if you guys had something in common. Apparently you do.
I doubt it, after reading the thread in question I would take my kids for a totally different reason probably as newvalor had wrote. I do not and can not agree with anyone that thinks that killing animals for human consumption is unethical as TP does.

P_chan

08-27-2007, 07:59 AM

Good point, Socal.

But perhaps P will claim we have taken him out of context on the point. Don't see how, but that claim sure is a convenient one.

hey maybe tp won't be a pompous ass for once....oh wait too late:rolleyes: Oh and maybe he will try to see things from another person's point of view...oh wait he's always right I forgot about that.

Once you shelter a child and keep everything bad away from them once their young, they end up being sheltered adults that have a hard time making it on their own. Hell they might become overly sensitive and think we should give animals the same rights as humans. I don't think you should take preschoolers to a slaughter house, maybe 3rd graders.

newvalor

08-27-2007, 10:17 AM

I doubt it, after reading the thread in question I would take my kids for a totally different reason probably as newvalor had wrote. I do not and can not agree with anyone that thinks that killing animals for human consumption is unethical as TP does.

I applaud you there, and Thank You. Evolution of the human species has evolved around the killing of animals and eating vegetables/crops and not just one way or the other. To base somebody's personality or ways of thinking because they are vegan/carnivorous is still not good either way. But with todays type of people and children complaining about every issue that doesn't seem fair to just them has got to end. I am tired of just having to act like a freakin Host accomodating to everybody I am around, I could give .02 cents what they think of my personality or my views as you can see thru my posts, if somebody doesn't like my point of view most times I just say stfu and deal with it. and more often then enough there are usually more of me than of them.

Sheltering a person creates the people we have most trouble with these days, they base everything off of television or what they view in a made to think world rather than the real world. If you can teach a young one at the appropriate age of your choice then you are teaching them the real world and how to interact within it, if you shelter them you have the chances or creating someone who when they don't fit in becomes a distraught person or possibly a criminal that thinks it is all fun and games just like the type of life they have grown up in. You see many cases these days of children stealing cars because they got the idea from a video game, murders commited from the thought process percieved from a movie or game, etc. I'll admit now, by age 12 whether I have a son/daughter I will teach gun safety and how to use in a situation for protection "inside" the home, I'm even going as far to teach about how a gun is not a toy and should not be shown off where most incidents of accidental death/shooting is from children thinking its a toy and showing it off to friends. I'll more than likely hide it but eventually kids are sneaky enough to find it.

I know i'm goin a little off topic but once again I have to throw a little real world at some peoples directions, sorry it's not all cake and ice cream for everybody, some people are dealt a sh!t sandwich while others have the scraps.

But i'm still against whale hunting, but not some crazed out greenpeace fag. anyways, somebody still enlighten me. what possibly could be done to a whale for science???

Muku

08-27-2007, 04:15 PM

But i'm still against whale hunting, but not some crazed out greenpeace fag. anyways, somebody still enlighten me. what possibly could be done to a whale for science???
I have no idea either, although the Japanese use the sale of the meat and byproducts to fund the research. At least that is what any number of sites about this topic have written in them, and few if any go into any detail about the reasons for the research in the first place.

I will admit I have eaten whale meat before and to be brutally honest here, it ain't nothin' to write home to Mom about that's for sure.

Here in Okinawa there are many people that think they are or have eaten whale meat at sushi restraunts but the majority have eaten either porpise or dolphin meat.:eek:

ryukyuboi

08-27-2007, 05:59 PM

"But i'm still against whale hunting, but not some crazed out greenpeace fag. anyways, somebody still enlighten me. what possibly could be done to a whale for science???"

People who are committed enough to a cause and take action based on their beliefs are usually the people who make a difference - as action speaks louder than words. Most everyone has an opinion that can be expressed hiding behind a computer screen. Greenpeace members have made a difference at times because they not only have expressed, written beliefs, but take action on their beliefs. They are activists.

I agree with you that whale hunting should stop, and also seriously question the "research" the Japanese have conducted on whales. I think your viewpoint would have been more persuasive had you not resorted to the heterosexist comment.

Peace.

Muku

08-27-2007, 06:14 PM

People who are committed enough to a cause and take action based on their beliefs are usually the people who make a difference - as action speaks louder than words. Most everyone has an opinion that can be expressed hiding behind a computer screen. Greenpeace members have made a difference at times because they not only have expressed, written beliefs, but take action on their beliefs. They are activists.

You see them as activists, others view them as radicals to the point of being terorrists in their actions. Using these anti-whaling activists as an example here; they have gone so far as to cause injury, rammed Japanese whalers and caused ships to flounder and send out calls for assistance, there are eco-terrorists amongst them as well, and they think nothing of the human beings that are on board those ships.

Their actions are close to attempted murder.

I am active in what I believe in, however I disagree with people that willing attempt to cause injury or harm to human beings with the goal of sparing an animal.

Peace to you as well:)

newvalor

08-28-2007, 02:26 AM

You see them as activists, others view them as radicals to the point of being terorrists in their actions. Using these anti-whaling activists as an example here; they have gone so far as to cause injury, rammed Japanese whalers and caused ships to flounder and send out calls for assistance, there are eco-terrorists amongst them as well, and they think nothing of the human beings that are on board those ships.

Their actions are close to attempted murder.

I am active in what I believe in, however I disagree with people that willing attempt to cause injury or harm to human beings with the goal of sparing an animal.

Peace to you as well:)

X2 again on your post, I've had experiences of dealing with these type of activists.

I work for one of the units on okinawa that consists of parachuting around the island. many times while in the white beach areas or on one of the islands that has a landing zone we run into the activists type of protesters from okinawa, and I'm not just saying we see them at the dock or on the road, they follow us out in thier kayaks and literally come within ft of our 40ft. boat, they get in the way of my personnel landing in the water. If anybody knows hitting the water at higher speeds can feel like hiting concrete, anyways these people get in the way and nearly cause injuries to my team members, all cause they don't want us jumping there.

To be an activists and protest in methods of getting in the way will eventually get someone hurt and or killed, all for what? because they don't want us there, we are not damaging anything. they are there because they think we are going to land in thier backyard. but still to keep on point, it's not going to change our places to jump, and either one of the protesters will get hurt or possibly drown being a retard and not understanding what they are doing, to get thier so-called idea across.

I have heard about greenpeace making the false stress calls to pull ships away from whale groups, and yes that is good. but to be on the verge of possible crimes against the people that are getting paid to do something is past my limit of what I call a protester or activist, I call them idiots because eventually someone will do something in return that they do not want to happen.

hopefully you catch onto what i'm getting at, I care less for greenpeace. And so what if I called them homo's, it' my expression of how I percieve them as and not a hetrosexual remark to what I think in my mind. too many people these days just assume before knowing the facts of any situation or statement, they just assume the worst case scenario every time.

ryukyuboi

08-28-2007, 06:28 AM

I recall the US Navy bombing the island of Kaho'olawe for target practice. The Hawaiian activitists paddled their way to the island to get in the way of the bombing. The US Navy was forced to stop the bombing, and eventually the island was returned to the people of Hawai'i. A similar situation happened in Puerto Rico. Activism often and eventually bears fruit.

You did not call anyone a "homo." You used the word fag. Using either term is sooo gay *smirk*.

Why doesn't the military stop their war games if there is a possibility of endangering civilians or themselves. It is a choice, no?

Muku

08-28-2007, 06:43 AM

newvalor

08-28-2007, 07:40 AM

newvalor I think I understand what you are saying here. I am not against people actively pursuing a goal of workings towards preserving the resources we have on this planet. Even greenpeace as you wrote has raised awareness of soem of the problems we are facing. If they can do it in a peaceful manner without harming other humans in the process then I say all well and good.

Thanks,

as said in my above post taking action can be done in a civilized manner, it's safer for both parties at times. now with protestors crowding an island that is bombed for target practice is just stupid, what if nobody knew they were there. they would blame the military of course as usual, but who would really be at fault? I would blame the protestors for being there in the first place where they know death could happen. there's signs posted that it is not a place for entry to the average person.

It gets me pissed off to see the protestors get in the way and raise the risk of my personnel and themselves, kinda pointing why I said they would blame us for thier stupidity.

Now you do have the violent protest of rock throwing, molotov cocktails, etc. now those are the ones that need to be put to rest, they endanger other peoples lives and yet the police or military cannot help because if they do anything it would be considered harrassment to a "peaceful" protest from what I've seen on the news when they occur. Those people are just idiots, they don't get nothing across, except a rock or two but other than that they just prove how worthless anybody elses life is to them.

ryukyuboi

11-17-2007, 05:51 PM

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/J/JAPAN_HUNTING_HUMPBACKS?SITE=WWL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

The beat goes on....

Asshat

11-19-2007, 07:14 AM

pardus

11-20-2007, 10:06 AM

I don't think it matters very much to each individual who is cut down, though, how many others in its species there are in the world. To someone in conservation, yes it matters a lot. To someone who doesn't like to see sensient life slaughtered, it doesn't.

I don't know anything about this particular woman's views, I'm just explaining the difference between the two views.

Go-Shay

11-20-2007, 07:06 PM

more information and live web cam at Greenpeace (http://www.greenpeace.org/international/news/whalers-depart-181107)

I killing doesn't bother me as much as the way they do it and the bs about scientific research:barf:.

ryukyuboi

12-08-2007, 07:39 PM

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20071208f3.html

More whaling news...

OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand

12-08-2007, 07:50 PM

I didn't meander through this thread, sorry....but I was watching TV the other day, and some US actor woman was shown all tearfull as they slaughtered some pilot whales.

What a joke. What an embarrasement. The Pilot whale is very prolific...as prolific as anything else out there fish-wise. I went through a school of them that was at least ten miles in diameter. I probably ran over some of them.
Yeah, that actress from Heros was a bit over-the-top. But, do you know why Japan is hunting and killing pilot whales? It's the fishing industry. The costal waters (and pretty much all the seven seas) have been so over-fished, that the locals view dolphins and whales as competition, and cull them so as to reduce/eliminate competition. Only, they claim the hunt as their heritage and right, and try to bamboozle everyone with the nonsense that the whale meat will be processed and served. Most of that meat is so contaminated with mercury that it is hazardous to anyone who eats it. It is usually sent to landfills and/or incinerated.

12-08-2007, 07:58 PM

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20071208f3.html

More whaling news...
I can't help but respect this guy. :p

Shooting pie filling and rotton butter at Japanese whalers = classic! :D

Tony Stacks

12-10-2007, 03:59 PM

Okinawa has the right to hunt for whatever they want in Okinawan waters!
Why do people mainly US and UK feel they have the right to dictate what another culture does. People should MYOB!

Krazy8

12-13-2007, 08:28 AM

Personally, I think everyone's missing the real issue here about what the real subject matter is all about. We can't always blame the Animal Activists for imposing humanitarian rights when first of all, they aren't aware nor are they understanding the differences in cultures varying from one country to another. However, it isn't bad to know that there are people out there who DO give a care.

It's also good to be informed that this can and/or could possibly pose a serious issue in regards to effects on global warming, overfishing & polluting our oceans, and destroying all plant and animal life that are crucially linked to the balance of our planet.

~ Biology major

pardus

12-23-2007, 02:28 AM

I can't help but respect this guy. :p

Shooting pie filling and rotton butter at Japanese whalers = classic! :D

He's a character. Writes wickedly funny editorials. Calls Greenpeace "the Avon ladies of the environmental movement."

Paul Watson (http://www.seashepherd.org/crew-watson.html) for pix of him standing on the ice in front of a Soviet whaling ship.

btw, in all hs protesting, he and his crew have never caused injury to anyone. They whalers claimed that they threw acid on them, but it was butyric acid as noted above, rancid butter. They have, on the other hand, been beaten bloody by sealers & been threatened at gunpoint with the Canadian Mounties looking on in silence. And the only thing they were doing was filming. They had to stay 50ft away because the sealers are protected by law.

Here's his perspective:

These fast steel hulled killing machines hunt down the whales without mercy firing grenade tipped harpoons into their bodies that explode and shred internal organs sending bolts of agonizing pain through the whales and forcing them to release adrenalin that gives them the strength to try and escape as another harpoon slams into their backside and sometimes even a third, and still it may take more than thirty minutes to die as the whale strains against the pull of the cable and the winches and screams painfully into the unforgiving cold sea and air, heard only by men with hearts so black that they do not grimace nor care, men without compassion, without empathy and without conscience.

Yet these same men call us who seek to protect life "eco-terrorists" and have the audacity to accuse us of violence as they fill the cold sea with the hot blood of the whales. It is a black comedy of absurdities and it speaks of the alienation that allows for the dispassionate slaughter of magnificent beings by petty hominid apes whose reality revolves around material self gratification.