Illegal Aliens...

[Bones]

Back in the States, we have a big problem with "Illegal Aliens".

I can pretty much "Grin&Bear" everything, but not so long ago, there was a big protest back there, where the "Illegals" were demanding to have the same rights as, normal citizens.

They demanded the same freedom, the same rights to welfare/medical treatment,etc..... entitled to every "American" citizen.

That just ticked me off!!!:cursing:

At last count, there are over 11 million illegals living in the USA.

As far as I'm concerned, the only rights that these people should be afforded, are the rights to pack up their bags, and go back home.

What are your thoughts?

NBTP

[Fonze]

My thoughts as my parents were illegals in the 70's and became citizens and hard working americans is kind of mixed. I believe we need to have security yet the majority of these people come to work. My proposal is give these 11 million straight up amnesty with backround checks and anyone after that, anyone that gets pulled over or asked for proof of residency and is here illegal got's to go. I also believe anyone with felonies serious or not loses all rights. DUI's your gone. maybe even mando stint in the mil for the younger ones.

As for medical cost I don't believe they're that big of a burden as people make it seem though it is an issue. I know for mexicans we either use vapor rub or 7 up for everthing. You have to remember these people pay all the taxes you do(gas, food ,sales and others) and they don't get tax returns which is understandable cause they are illegal immigrants.

I and my wife both have people in this situation and they are just trying to raise their fams. Not one of them sends money to mexico. I had a cousin who robbed a bank and served time and got deported and an dui uncle also and no one in the fam feels bad for them.

As for illegals from other countries I wish the congress does something and then they shut the door.

[P_chan]

If they actually become citizens then I don't mind at all. But a lot of illegals just want our rights, but don't want to become citizens. Those are the one's having protests at school and flying the mexican flag over an upside down american flag. That kind of stuff just really pisses me off. There is nothing wrong with loving the country that you came from. But if you love it that much, why are you here and why don't you go back to your own country? I don't really like saying that, but that's what it all boils down to.

I got an idea though. Why doesn't the government force places like walmart to pay illegals the same wage and give them the same benefits at citizens? The essentially the advantage of hiring the illegal is gone, and will even the playing field. But I'm sure they will still hire the illegal. After all, it saddens me to say this, but they will probably work harder and complain less.

[Fonze]

Ya I never liked when they did that either but I think they believe it's no dif than Italian flags and jamaican and others. I don't think it helps their cause though.

[ryukyuboi]

I liked the immigration reform piece of legislation that failed to recently pass in Congress. I don't recall all the features of the bill, but securing the borders with more manpower and other surveillance was in it. I think businesses would have been heavily fined for knowingly hiring an illegal. And there was an identification process in finding out who the illegals were, with an opportunity for illegals to obtain working visas, and an eventual opportunity to acquire citizenship provided a number of different conditions were met. Although it may not have been perfect in satisfying everyone, it was a real start in addressing the problem. I haven't seen any other plan since the defeat of this bill. The beat goes on.....

[Tempestuous]

Our local hospital gives out something like 2million a yr in free health care.....well kind of.

It is health care that is given primarily to immigrants that have no legal job, no social security number, and no insurance.

They come in for emergency care, get it and then never pay the bill. so the hospital foots the costs. I am sure passing it along to the rest of us through higher prices which our insurance providers will not cover and we get stuck paying.

Something like 1 in 20 illegal immigrants pay taxes (with fraudulent social security numbers & documents), others are paid in cash under the table. Many work laborious jobs many American's don't want to do and they usually work for a lower wage than a typical American would work for. I see the draw for companies, less money going out with willing hard workers at hand to bring money in, but it still seems 'dirty' to me.

I don't know that we will ever see a real solution to the issue. Perhaps I am being too pessimistic?

[newvalor]

Our local hospital gives out something like 2million a yr in free health care.....well kind of.

It is health care that is given primarily to immigrants that have no legal job, no social security number, and no insurance.

They come in for emergency care, get it and then never pay the bill. so the hospital foots the costs. I am sure passing it along to the rest of us through higher prices which our insurance providers will not cover and we get stuck paying.

Something like 1 in 20 illegal immigrants pay taxes (with fraudulent social security numbers & documents), others are paid in cash under the table. Many work laborious jobs many American's don't want to do and they usually work for a lower wage than a typical American would work for. I see the draw for companies, less money going out with willing hard workers at hand to bring money in, but it still seems 'dirty' to me.

I don't know that we will ever see a real solution to the issue. Perhaps I am being too pessimistic?

right on, you hit the nail right on the head.

Sorry if I don't have the story to post. A local hospital in Dallas, Tx just got done with a story about how illegal immigrants throughout the metroplex have consistantly been the cause of raised taxes and higher costs for medications/hospital costs. They recieve free health care, due to the patient disclosure acts and that there is a no-turn away policy on illegal immigrants.

I do understand that many want a better life here in the U.S. but if a person cannot take the proper and legal way to become a citizen then they do not deserve to be to begin with. Forgive me Fonze as I know it sounds harsh, but compared to the 70's, immigration matters were not in the spotlight or in a debacle like it is now. I could see back then that the U.S. was open to illegal immigration for at those times things were possibly way different then also.

With the amount of people that illegally enter the U.S. adding to the already large population we have, it does bring more strains on the economy. A lot of the scenarios are people looking for better paying work, the problem that hasn't really been talked about why they don't get paid the same is the matter of benefits, unions, etc. that can cause the owner to lose profits. Cheaper labor is better for profits, but when you under pay somebody that gets free healthcare, if he gets hurt he is easily replaced.

Back to my first paragraph, if the person goes thru all the trouble of sneaking into the U.S. hiding in the shadows, uses a fake social #, and whatever else to hide within the populace they do not deserve amnesty as they have broken many laws. If a person wants to be legal they can wait in line along with the others who choose that route, legally.

[Bones]

First off, my post was not meant to point fingers at any one minority, it was aimed at all illegal aliens living within the U.S. But there were a lot of good responses.

Quote:

My proposal is give the 11 million straight up amnesty....

I don't agree with you on that one, Fonze. I also appreciate your honesty on the subject, and applaud your parents for their having obtained their citizenship. Kind of wondering about how they managed to accomplish that, it stands to reason that they had to pay a penalty at one point, or the other, during their citizenship application process.

But as "newvalor", responded later on:

...if the person goes thru all the trouble of sneaking into the U.S hiding in the shadows, uses a fake social #, and whatever else to hide within the populace they do not deserve amnesty as they have broken many laws.

I tend to side with his, as well as other posters out there, that "straight up amnesty", is something that will not easily be swallowed. Not by American citizens, nor by "Naturalized Citizens" like myself, who had to wait in that long line.

Fonze, also made a good point, and some of you out there agreed with him, that they are only over there to improve the lives of themselves, and their families. There is no question that the U.S., and a lot of companies have benefited by their hard labor.

So now the question is:

What, in your opinion, is the best way to resolve this issue?

This is a discussion. This is not a debate. You don't have to post links or anything. You don't even have to answer, if you don't want to.

Looking fwd to your thoughts.

NBTP

P.S.

You can only answer if your name is not, TP.

P.S.S.

Joking!!!! Couldn't resist the urge. :D

[Fonze]

well personaly I liked the bill congress wanted to pass. I know it wasn't perfect but better than nothing. As for my parents my dad got helped by the amnesty in the 80's and mom had a visa and overstayed. I dont think they paid any penalties.

Straight up amnesty is kinda tough to swallow, but they should be allowed to stay here and pay penalties and anyone with criminal record has to go. lets not kid ourselves 1. they cant get them all deported and 2. these people as much as they are illegal do help this economy.Are americans really going to do half the jobs these people do? NO. All the money woes is congress porking up spending.

All in all if they get to stay they need to secure the border and no one else that comes in illegaly gets to stay.

[Bones]

Hey Fonze, just about to log off when I saw your reply.

Good answer, and if your parents took advantage of an earlier amnesty program, good for them. Good for you as well, and I wish you the best of luck. :thumbup1:

Waiting to hear from some of the others out there.

:eek::eek::eek:Iv'e just realized something. There's T.P., and there is N.B.T.P. Maybe some of you out there are thinking the same thing. :eek::eek::eek:

Not the same person, not even trying to be.

NBTP

[socalheart]

Being from California, this is a big deal there. Immigrants should be allowed into the country LEGALLY with a sponsor who is a citizen or legal resident. I'm not saying being super-ridiculously-strict like Japan, but give the immigrants a legal in to the country. I don't disagree that immigrants have the right to humane emergency care while in the country illegal or legal. I don't mind so much when they cross into the country to give birth to a baby for citizenship. I do mind when they use the welfare system and other public services without paying taxes. They aren't legally entitled to any of it. My mother came into the country legally and became a citizen, as did other immigrants I know. I don't see why others can't do the same. Cases of immigrants entering the country illegally from countries with "political issues" are not the same as those who cross the border through a hole in the fence. Illegal immigrants and refugees are not the same thing to me.

[Bones]

Hi Socalheart,

You said:

Immigrants, should be allowed into the country LEGALLY with a sponsor...

Agreed, that's how my family made it over there from Germany.

You've also said:

I'm not saying being super-ridiculously-strict like Japan, but give the immigrants a legal into the country.

This is my fourth time on the island, this time as a permanent resident. Twice military, twice civilian. This time around, I had to contact the Japanese Consulate for an entry Visa. They sent us some paperwork, we filled in the blocks, they sent us our Visa (not the credit card), and we're here. A few days after our arrival, we had to check in with the Chatan-Cho City Office, where I had to register my new address, and to apply for their version of a "Green Card". Received that about eighteen days, after my application.

Total time spent on paperwork, just guessing, just short of thirty minutes. Those thirty minutes of paperwork, were all that was required of me to return to Okinawa. Our relatives over here, spent a lot of time on getting us the documents required of them, to qualify for our sponsorship. It wasn't a strenuous effort, just having to wait a long time for the documents they needed.

Also, "Refugees", do not fall into the same category, as it pertains to this thread. But I'm glad that you know the difference.

NBTP

[Fonze]

One other thing that bothers me is that some don't want to learn english. My dad also hates it cause he use to have to learn to understand and comunicate with people and he says evreywhere people speak spanish.
I was born in Cali and didn't learn english till I was in 1st and 2nd grade go figure.

[DougP]

Disclaimer: The following post is not directed towards anyone in particular.

What I'm still baffled by is the fact that the whole illegal part seems to be escaping some people's mind. I don't find it very difficult to live legally in Japan. Therefore I wouldn't personally consider this place ridiculously-strict. I know it can be a huge pain in the ass to get someone legalized in America. Hell even if that person is your wife you still have a long lengthy process to go through. But you know what that's the way the laws are right now. Things may not be easy over here but I accept that. Japan is not my country so I'm more than ok with following their guide lines so that I can live here legally with my wife.

What gets me is the fact that some people can just waltzes into America illegally and then complain about the rules that are already in place. I mean why would you go to another country and then question that country's rules and regulations on immigration, especially after you've gone there illegally.

So if I break into to someone's house because the one I live in is shit its ok for me to complain about how this other house, that's not mine, is kept? Come on! Give me a break. How can one actually do this. If things are that bad in your own country that you have to run away how can you just sneak in to another country and then protest it? Why not try to change the way things are in your country? I don't understand how your own country can be bad enough to leave but good enough to proudly display the flag while burning the one that belongs to the country you seek economic refuge in.

On top of it all you broke the other country's laws by coming into it illegally!! And now its the governments fault because their laws are forcing you to leave. So wait does that mean I can sneak into Japan and then when they want to tighten security around their boarders and make it more difficult for people to come in illegally I can criticize them? Can I criticize their citizens for wanting to stand behind such measures?

If it isn't my country then what right do I have to go in and try raise hell about how they run things?

And for those who may wish to remind me that America was built on and by immigrants and that's why we should keep our borders open remember this.
It was also built on by those who thought slavery was ok and built by forced labor. The country expanded not only because of immigrant workers but because of the genocide of those who had already been living there long before. So just because its been going on for a while doesn't mean its not in need of a change. There comes a time when you can't just let everyone in because they want a better life. If they want it bad enough maybe they should take their fight to the source. Maybe they should fight for a better life in their own county. America's immigration laws are not the real problem here.
There's obvious a reason why they're trying to leave their country to come into the US.

[Fonze]

On the protest part I don't believe they are protesting the countries policies I think its more of a cry for help as a please let me stay. As for the flag burning Iv'e never seen it besides from the middle east protest but if they do I think it's those leftist dumbasses from anti-american groups that hold onto the hope "america will be returned to it's rightfull peope".

[socalheart]

This is my fourth time on the island, this time as a permanent resident. Twice military, twice civilian. This time around, I had to contact the Japanese Consulate for an entry Visa. They sent us some paperwork, we filled in the blocks, they sent us our Visa (not the credit card), and we're here. A few days after our arrival, we had to check in with the Chatan-Cho City Office, where I had to register my new address, and to apply for their version of a "Green Card". Received that about eighteen days, after my application.

Total time spent on paperwork, just guessing, just short of thirty minutes. Those thirty minutes of paperwork, were all that was required of me to return to Okinawa. Our relatives over here, spent a lot of time on getting us the documents required of them, to qualify for our sponsorship. It wasn't a strenuous effort, just having to wait a long time for the documents they needed.

Well, yay for you and yours. Then you're lucky to have had it so easy. I know of people, myself included, who have family or company sponsorship available here, but Japan didn't grant a visa. It's nice that your family already in-country was able to get most of the paperwork done for you.

As for the US, which was part of the original focus, aren't immigrants also able to serve in the US military to gain US citizenahip? I wasn't sure that was a viable option or a benefit for citizenship. I've seen a PSA about it on AFN.

[Fonze]

Ya but not illegal immigrants as far as I know.

[DougP]

interesting
YouTube - Cost of Illegal Immigration

[Mad Hatter]

Straight up amnesty is kinda tough to swallow, but they should be allowed to stay here and pay penalties and anyone with criminal record has to go.

If they came into the US illegally (abandoned their own country), are they not criminals?

lets not kid ourselves 1. they cant get them all deported and 2. these people as much as they are illegal do help this economy.Are americans really going to do half the jobs these people do? NO. All the money woes is congress porking up spending.

All in all if they get to stay they need to secure the border and no one else that comes in illegaly gets to stay.


I really don't want to think that if they just slide through now... their safe... but anyone after that needs to stay out.

NBTP is alot nicer than I am about this subject. But I have a very far fetched solution:

Go through America and have a "prove yourself" showing of your citizen ship. If J.witnesses can walk door to door ever Saturaday.. so can we!! (but you know some illegals would end up doing it, because of it being "hard work") If you ain't American citizen.. you got to go!!!

I know that it's crude, but I really have a hard problem with letting someone sleep in my backyard, just because they don't have a home. Metaphor!!!

Until someone comes along to fix it... I say use'em while you got'em. Let's face it, there are just some jobs that most people don't want to do. Sure, hire you an illegal to come in there and do that nasty job, because I know that I'm not going to do it...You see, I have this thing called an education and self respect. If they don't like digging ditches, laying sod, cleaning shitters, and all in all construction work.... THEY CAN LEAVE!!!

If I heard of an "illegal" complaining that he doesn't have health insurance... I'd have to smack the shit out of him!!! I'd just have to!!:cursing:

[Mad Hatter]

Oh Man I Was Way Behind This Thread!!!:eek:

But after watching that video.. can we just shot'em?

[kombu_kid]

I think I'll jump in here on this one.....I live in L.A. and was born here. As far amnesty goes, we've already done it back in '86 and that was supposed to be "the last time". Now, we've got Bush and all his big-business backing pushing for "comprehensive immigration reform", which means "let's let as many 3rd world workers come across our borders as possible, and after a specific time period (3~5 yrs), they must return to their home country". Yeah right! We already HAVE a whole slew of laws in place that aren't being enforced, so why do we need more? Simple! To grant amnesty to the 12~20 million illegals who are already here, and make a system to allow the free influx of many more.

To anyone who thinks I'm coming down on Mexicans, or Guatamalans, or Salvadorans, hey, I don't blame them, I blame our government. I'd be coming across the border too. But you can't run a country without order, and that is exactly what we've got. Complete disorder. Hospital E.R.s closing down left and right. Why? Because since the illegals don't have health coverage, they treat the E.R.s like it's the corner free clinic. If an illegal immigrant woman has 5 kids and doesn't pay, how much does that cost the taxpayers? Chances are, her husband is working under the table and contributing zero to the tax base.

This is all basically a big boost in profits for big business while shoving the bill off onto the taxpayer.

The bottom line is: American citizens aren't getting the health care they deserve, their children aren't getting the education they deserve, and every time a hit & run, burglary, assault, murder or rape is committed against an American citizen by an illegal immigrant, it's a freakin' outrage. But the politicians don't think so; they're tucked away in their ivory towers.

George W. Bush barely made a peep when the students in L.A. raised a Mexican flag over an upside-down American flag. I couldn't have any less respect for this guy, and I voted for him twice.

Man, I could go on and on about this subject.

[newvalor]

Good point Kombu and NBTP from your last post.

When I lived in NM, it was a 1 hr drive down to El Paso, Tx. When I would drive down I-10 there would be signs on the side of the highway that shows the people crossing type design. Well I had also asked around and finally got an answer why those signs were there to begin with. In the city of EP, Tx you could be arrested and put in jail on attempted vehicular manslaughter if you were to hit an illegal immigrant while they are crossing the highway. The police considered the highway a safezone due to it being there and they would await along with border patrol on the other side if that person were to make it.

This brings up another point, If we cannot protect our own borders then how are we going to enforce our own laws about this. Currently I have a troop in the office that has been deployed to support the border patrol in Az a few times. She told me that if armed gunmen were to approach her position on american soil they could not defend and they would have to retreat. I find it really rediculous that our military can't defend our own land which we have sworn to defend. She's told me stories of how she could watch armed groups of men(soldiers in fact) across the border pack up vehicles with immigrants and then proceed to drive them across the border, all she and her team mates could do was call it in and leave the area. It's just shameful we can't protect ourselves anymore.

[Fonze]

I agree they shouldn't complain about health care rights but to balme Illegals for the problems is funny to me. They make up such a small percentage.

How many American citizens can't even pay their mortgages, file for bankrupcty, have credit cards they can't pay and then do you guys really think they're going to pay their medical costs, please. American citizens need to stop buying shit they can't afford.

I agree the border needs to be secured both of them cause a lot of asians come thru canada also. I agree these countries need to clean up and provide lifes for thier people and it's slowly happening.

As for my reason to get the ones here a PATH to citizenship is they will pay fines and taxes contribute to the S.S. there kids will grow and get educations and fill jobs that are getting sent overseas.
I do believe this should be the last semi-free pass though no more illegal immigration should be tolerated. so the longer they wait the more that just come in.

[Bones]

Wow!!! There are so many great responses, that it's hard to decide which one to answer first.:ohmy:

Let's start with an easy one.

socalheart, I'm sorry that you, or some others out there, had a hard time obtaining your visa's. One factor involved with obtaining ours so quickly, is being married to a Japanese citizen.

The other factor (just guessing), is that I've spent a lot of time over here with the military, as well as on the civilian side of the house. I've also had a rather close relationship with the local authorities over here. Whenever someone within my squadron got themselves into trouble, I was one of the individuals who had to escort those people to the local police station off-base. You make a lot of friends that way, and I've run into a few of them already.

But if you want to talk about frustration, it took us eight months of paperwork, so many trips to the American Consulate (once went there by mistake, thinking that I was going to work), just to get married.

I was already a citizen when I joined the military, but there was an option where people who were legal residents, could join up and try to gain their citizenship. The military offered Citizenship classes, but there were some limitations. You could not be promoted to NCO status, unless you became a citizen during your current enlistment. You were also denied re- enlistment, if you failed to obtain your citizenship, once your current enlistment expired.

Some never made it that far, but there were a lot that did.

NBTP

[Bones]

Big thanks to DougP, for posting the video.:first:

Quote:

What gets me is the fact that some people can just waltzes into America illegally and then complain about the rules that are already in place.

One of the things that really gets my goat, the "Illegals", have more rights than a person who returns from overseas, with an expired "Green Card". The American Consulate, on Okinawa, couldn't help us with that. Even though we had been married for 18 years, with the documentation to prove it.

My wife was threatened with deportation, even after we had presented the proof that was required of us. Not even an apology, once it was determined that we had presented legal documents.

How sad is that?:mad:

The rules already in place, only benefit those, who have enough money to ensure that their candidate is elected. Border security, depends on how much money the person has, who wishes to come across.

What a joke.:rolleyes:

[ja_Patriot]

That's why I obtained US citizenship for my wife. When we decided to move over, being an Uchinanchu by birth and with the sponsorship of the in-laws obtaining our gaikokujin torokusho wasn't a problem. The immig office even offered that after 10 years or less my Japanese wife could apply to be a Japanese again. LOL.

As far as immigrants are concerned, I'm for those who do the process and assimilate. 2 1/2 years for a green card and 5 years for citizenship. Learn English, pay taxes, act like an American and live your dream.

The president's stand on immigration, amnesty and border control is something I don't support. Along with this weird advocacy for man-made global warming fraud.

[Bones]

This is the hard one. Mad Hatter posted:

Oh Man I Was Way Behind This Thread!!!:eek: But after watching that video.. can we just shoot'em?

I'm pretty much in line with your kind of thinking. But I would pursue the one, two, three, approach.

1. Catch them, send them back.

2. The second time, put them in jail.

3. If they come back again, kill them.

This would be with due process of course, and while those people are within the legal process, the country of their origin, would be required to compensate us for the "Illegals" detention. As well as, for their expulsion/legal fees.

I don't blame the people who come over to the States, for willing to improve their lives. I blame their Governments, for not taking the time to ensure that the people who live in their country are happy, and well taken care of.

But it's much easier to let some less desirable people slip out of the country, and then blame the people who send them back, for rights violations.

A lot easier, than trying to keep your spouse from being deported. Even if you've been married to her for 18 years, with all of the legal documentation to prove it.

But my spouse is Okinawan, not Mexican.

My bad.

NBTP

[Fonze]

You guys know what I was just thunkin. that maybe they don't want to legalize immigrants because if they do they won't work those jobs. Just a thought.

[Bones]

:scared:This is scary!!!:scared:

Originally posted by Fonze:You guys know what I was thunkin. that maybe they don't want to legalize immigrants because if they do they won't work those jobs.Just a thought.

When I first read that, I was laughing my a$$ off, lol. Then I started thinking, what if it's true? :eek::eek::eek:

NBTP

[Bones]

Hey ja, we discussed obtaining American citizenship for my wife, before we were married. So she went to the city office, as well as a few other places, and she was told that if she obtained her American citizenship, she would lose all of her benefits that she had accrued over here while she was working. They informed her that she could re-apply for Japanese citizenship, but even so, she would not be able to get her benefits back. That's why we didn't go that route.

NBTP

[Bones]

Hey Guyjin,

In regards to your post, in my opinion it's not an issue of hate, so much as it is that a lot of people are angry about them being there illegally. Had they immigrated legally, this wouldn't even be an issue. Some of them even did come across the border legally, they just never got their visa's renewed.

Then, as Fonze pointed out, there were a lot of people over here back in 86, that took advantage of the amnesty program, and thus, are in the states legally now. I don't have a problem with that. For those that are still illegals, they do not have a right to complain about the problems that they are facing.

And yes, there are a lot of people crossing our borders that are happy to work the jobs Americans wouldn't take. Doesn't say much for Americans does it? Or, maybe it says too much.

NBTP

[Fonze]

That just proves who the real welfare system rapers are.

[socalheart]

Sometimes, it isn't that Americans don't want the manual labor jobs. Sometimes, it's that Americans want to be paid at least federal minimum wage for doing those jobs. Sometimes, the employers don't want to pay that much to an employee and don't want to pay taxes and other required things on that employee. Sometimes, it isn't laziness. Sometimes, it's about what is fair and right by law.

[Fonze]

Sometimes, it isn't that Americans don't want the manual labor jobs. Sometimes, it's that Americans want to be paid at least federal minimum wage for doing those jobs. Sometimes, the employers don't want to pay that much to an employee and don't want to pay taxes and other required things on that employee. Sometimes, it isn't laziness. Sometimes, it's about what is fair and right by law.

First off lettuce pickers get paid around 8 to 12 an hour and so do construction workers, some even more. So the whole they pay them less than minimun is another funny lie. The reason they pay them this much is cause they know that if they don't they won't work it. The only illegals that get screwed are the ones working minimun wage.

[socalheart]

Minimum Wage Will Rise Today (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/23/AR2007072301427.html)
One of Three Annual Increases Is First in a Decade
Tuesday, July 24, 2007

The nation's lowest-paid workers will soon find extra money in their pockets as the minimum wage rises 70 cents to $5.85 an hour today, the first increase in a decade.Well there has not been a minimum wage increase in................. too long!

Agreed. Employers who hire illegals for labor are cutting their own costs for labor all around. And I think the people who control the money probably say "hmmmm,I can pay 3 immigrants half of what I would have to pay a citizen plus I don't have to provide them coverage,hmmmmm and I can also buy my wife those breasts she has always wanted"
IMO the system is just screwed up:thumbdown:

[Bones]

You've brought up a good point Guyjin. Maybe you could start a new thread.

For example:

"This system is broke..."

One of the things that pi$$es me off, especially after the severe Hurricane season, is how people getting government assistance, waste money on luxury items, rather than fixing their homes.

If you don't want to use hurricanes, perhaps you might use an example of how people spend their money meant for car repairs, or medical bills, on things other than they were not intended for.

Sorry about going off-topic for a bit, but it seems to me the perfect counter-topic that we are discussing within this thread. Americans whining about illegals, about how much money the illegals are costing us in tax dollars. And then turning it around to how many tax dollars the we spend, on defrauding our own government.

By we, I mean anybody that calls him/herself, an American. How much of our tax dollars are wasted by our own citizens, wasting our tax payer money, to buy ourselves things that we actually do not need, instead of using the money as it was intended.

Just a thought.

NBTP

[ja_Patriot]

NBTP,

We had a different situation, I guess. We did the US citizenship of my wife in New York. As she hasn't worked here for many years, the social benefits situation would be different from yours.

What was important for us was no hassles in entering the USA and living a normal citizen's life. Keeping the green card was just too inconvenient, espec after 9/11.

______________

As far as illegals are concerned, I think that the borders should be first secured. It's not as much as closing the borders to Mexicans or other people seeking opportunity to have a better life, it's probably more important to block the Islamists and terrorists coming in disguised as migrant workers.

After the borders are secured (with a fence if necessary), then as a priority we should deal with the deportation of criminal and undesirable elements, and only then should be mass action taken with respect to the rest.

Laws already exist to do the above, and enforcement and not new legislation, is necessary.

Fact is we just can't deport everyone, so it's going be easier said than done.

Amnesty now will only encourage the mass entry of many, many more illegals and overstaying tourists that the situation will be absolutely untenable.

[kombu_kid]

One thing employers who hire illegals have on their side is that the illegals won't complain or "go out" on worker's compensation. That's a big deal here, because companies have to pay worker's comp insurance, and it's expensive. Just imagine, you could hire an American for a particular job that pays $8.00/hr (manual labor), or hire an illegal who is "hungry" for the work and will hustle and kick ass, hopeful that he will be called back again.

There's something about the American worker (not all, of course), that if they know they can make the same amount of money staying home on welfare or worker's comp.......I mean, think about it. IMO, anyone who isn't working should get in a gov't sponsored soup-line, then go pick up their free necessities from a gov't warehouse. No free money that could be squandered on booze, etc. Then they would need to go sweep the street or something; no sitting on their ass in front of the T.V.

When a company hires an illegal, there's no fear of lawsuits, forming of unions, extended lunch breaks, or back-talk at all.

[Tempestuous]

First off lettuce pickers get paid around 8 to 12 an hour and so do construction workers, some even more. So the whole they pay them less than minimun is another funny lie. The reason they pay them this much is cause they know that if they don't they won't work it. The only illegals that get screwed are the ones working minimun wage.

The thing is with 8-12 an hour how well does that support a family? You have to take taxes, medicare, social security and insurance out of that.....IF you are a law abiding citizen that is paying taxes. So in reality that is not a decent wage to support a family on if you are playing by the rules.

If 1 out of 20 illegal immigrants are paying taxes that means the other 19 are getting paid under the table. They get paid in cash which saves the employer $$ on what they pay the worker AND what they pay the government, so it benefits the employer as well, even if he pays a little more than min wage.

[Fonze]

They still pay every other tav that we do. Gas, food sales and more.
Then to say 8 to 12 isn't enough to suport a family is false. These people pay rent and what they need not like stupid americans that buy shit they cant afford have credit they cant pay. To blame illegals for americas woes is just another excuse.

[Bones]

Quote:

To blame illegals for americas woes is just another excuse.

Well put, Fonze.:thumbup:

But the main point of this whole thing was not to lay blame, just about what could be done about it. And my aim was not to point out any particular race, origin, or whatever.

Interesting responses, from all of you out there.

So let's put this issue to rest.

NBTP

[P_chan]

YouTube - south park THEY TOOK OUR JOBS

This thread just reminded me of this episode of south park.

[Fonze]

That was a funny ass episode.

[ryukyuboi]

Immigration_by_the_Numbers.mov

Interesting lecture on the numbers.....

[Boost]

Very interesting lecture ryukyuboi, thanks for posting it!