Jena 6

[Tanimaga]

Anyone following this news story? Any thoughts?

Apparently, a "White area" under a shade tree was used by a few black students, resulting in the display of several nooses hanging from a branch. Racial tensions arose from this, and eventually several beatings. One putting a white student in the hospitol from what I gather. One of the black students involved is still in custody.

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/law/09/21/jena.hearing/index.html?iref=topnews

[newvalor]

It's turning into another "I'm pulling out the racist/bias card to promote that the guys who beat a kid to a pulp are innocent" tactic.

Or it could be that I'd hate to say that somebody took something too far. So the white kids hung nooses from the tree, ok a racist antic of saying this is ours. They got expelled from education, doesn't look good for college.

Now on the recieving side, we got racially discriminated so lets beat the hell out of the kid for it.

So now they're trying to turn it to where they are the victims and the white guy that was put in the hospital due to thier hatred is the assailant.

Man I love how people are so sue happy and racist card throwing these days.

[Tanimaga]

On first glance, I thought it extreme for holding the kid in jail for what happened. BUT, I was on island during the Rodney King thing, and had a couple of my friends beaten on the Sunabe seawall just for being there alone. Roving gangs of blacks were cruising for white folks to pummel. I was warned by a black friend not to go anywhere alone...especially near black hangouts.

I don't know the details on what happened, but I don't think that law enforcement would hold the guy on these serious charges without substantial reason given the type of attention the case is getting.
There's always just a little more to the story than is told. The place has quite a history of racial tension.

[newvalor]

I think the reason why they are not releasing him is due to his chances of disappearing. Now that they have the support from all the racism/profiling people they could do such that. They could fly him outta country or just help him disappear and start some new debacle to take him off the radar.

Jackson and Sharpton are 2 of the most lowest life people I can think of. Everything they bring up to fight with is somehow racial caused or done, when yet alone it could only involve a black women calling the fire department to come get her cat out of the tree.

Those two guys keep bringing black people I'd hate to say back to the early yrs where racism was a daily thing. Everytime African Americans have made a big step in things, those 2 show up and cause some stir sending everyone back to the GO square.

[Tanimaga]

I definitely agree on those two..publicity hounds.

[newvalor]

Just read the news, they say all the protesting has similar settings as back in the 50's&60's. That right there shows what they're up to, they're just setting everybody back to the starting line.

You'd be surprised how much you'd learn about the African American heritage/culture/history when you take the class.

I have literally never seen an African American person get mad at the teacher (who was African American) because that teacher brought the real perspective of human rights into the spotlight. This girl was so upset she left the classroom cause everything she thought was right was totally wrong doing. She felt embarassed for the way she treated others about racial subjects, but also felt stupid for the way she used things in a racial matter.

Some people just take things too far, and thanks to those 2 guys. Well there ya go.

[Tanimaga]

It is amazing what a little education can do for you. Misinformation is a powerful hate tool.

[newvalor]

not just misinformation but just no common sense of the consequences for said reactions. I'm not racists but when I saw the statistics for how violence is compared to racial tensions, African Americans are the highest.

[Muku]

It also appears to me that within the African American community in the US people do not know how to accept success. I use the example of Obama, he is a very successful man, yet he has been accused it seems, at least from what I heard on the radio, of being too "white". Purely because he hasnt taken a stronger position on the incident in question here.

I also get the impression that people within the black community are divided as well.

On a different note, look at the case of Thomas calling a black woman a few differrent names and then justifying it by saying that it's ok for a black guy to use these words to a black woman because it means something different than if a white person did.

Talk about racist? How many words in English pop to mind that mean one thing when spoken by a white vs a black person?

[newvalor]

Well guyjin thats what lead to the point of everything happening. When the nooses were hung, yes that was a racial antic towards black people. But in retaliation they could have called him a cracker or hung white sheets from the tree. Yes? Instead they retaliated causing bodily harm towards just one white person rather than the group of white guys, they singled out thier target and proceeded to beat him.

That's where the line was crossed causing this whole enterauge(spelling??) of racism and racial profiling being thrown in the spotlight. All because this group could not act like the adults they are being prosecuted as, but rather turned childish and thought that beating a white student would make a difference.

[Fonze]

The guy that got beat up had absolutely nothing to do with the nooses.
While I agree with the punishment for the white kids(suspension) for hanging noose directed towards the black kids. I have to disagree with the charges of attempted murder as adults(thier 16)for the black kids. That kid has been in jail since december. Any other similair crime usually ends up with probation.

If the protest were just for unjust prosecution then I'm for it, but those 2 duchebags sharpton and jackson need to go.

[newvalor]

well thats one thing that has been left out, how badly the kid was beat. I would think that 6 on 1 could end a persons life quickly.

[Fonze]

He got a swollen and black eye and was knocked out. Bad but not horrible.

[socalheart]

I don't think it was right to beat a guy up for being a particular ethnicity. Even if he was one of the guys who put a noose in the tree, the deeds aren't equal. The guys who did the noose stunt, should've been punished more harshly though. It does remind me of the marches that took place back in the sixties. When I first saw it on the news, I thought they were doing a re-creation. One more thing, what was the deal with a "whites only" section? I'd heard of high school cliques, but geewhiz people!

[dk]

If a person hangs up a noose in order to intimidate another race, that person deserves to get his ass handed to him. Am I reading correctly that the person who got beat didn't have anything to do with hanging the noose? What's his story? I've tried to read up on this when I had a chance but I guess I confused the details.

[Tanimaga]

You will have the segregation anywhere you go.. in the Army we had different spots for black & white soldiers..it just happened to form up that way. Yes, we also had severe racial clashes too.
When I was 16, I got jumped in a city parking garage. Jumped me from behind, and kicked me in the face several times. For what I have no idea..
I couldn't even see for quite sometime. Cops just laughed it off, and wouldn't even file a report. Apparently, now I could get them for attempted murder?

I suppose I would have to be within the school system to figure out the mentality of these kids.

The nooses, beatings (of both races), and the burning all have been over quite some time. Its not just the noose ordeal that started it.

[ryukyuboi]

This newstory has not been of much interest to me.

I do wonder why hanging a noose from a tree would not be considered free speech?? Lots of demonstrators in political rallies hang politicians all the time. Would the white students have been suspended if they hung a Confederate flag on the tree?? Or a swastika, or Christian cross?

[Mad Hatter]

I'm not touchin this with a ten foot pole!!

[Muku]

This newstory has not been of much interest to me.

I do wonder why hanging a noose from a tree would not be considered free speech?? Lots of demonstrators in political rallies hang politicians all the time. Would the white students have been suspended if they hung a Confederate flag on the tree?? Or a swastika, or Christian cross?

The noose in the US south is a symbol of a period of time in US history that people would just like to brush under the rug and imagine never occured.
After slavery ended and through the time period of the civil rights unrest in the United States south black men, women, and children were terrorized by white people who wanted to keep them "in their place". Too many people were lynched, dragged from houses, beat up, for percieved crimes, or purely on a whim, a rope tossed over a tree and hung.

No justice was served on the overwhelming majority of people that perpitrated these crimes.

Hanging a politician in effigy is one thing, however not only to the black community but white community as well, particularly in the US south the rope over a tree is a symbol of supression, hate, and terror.

I'll bet the white boys that put that rope over the tree knew very well what they were doing and to them it wasnt an issue of free speech, it was to send a message, a very sick and disgusting one at that.

[ryukyuboi]

Generally, symbolic speech (free expression) is protected under the US Constitution.

http://www.slcgov.com/mayor/speeches/free%20speech%20guidelines.htm

I don't think hanging a noose is a crime. While one may find the symbolic message offensive, I would think hanging a noose would be protected as free expression if this issue ever went to Court. Yet, three students were suspended from school for a number of days for exercising free expression. I am not condoning the actions of the individuals involved with hanging the nooses. I do question if their Constitutional rights may have been violated.

I recognize that the rights of students who hung the nooses is not the main focus of this matter.

An assault of some kind happened. Assaulting is criminal. The punishment should fit the crime. But have the accused been treated justly by the judicial system in Louisiana?

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/070307B.shtml

[Muku]

Generally, symbolic speech (free expression) is protected under the US Constitution.

http://www.slcgov.com/mayor/speeches/free%20speech%20guidelines.htm

I don't think hanging a noose is a crime. While one may find the symbolic message offensive, I would think hanging a noose would be protected as free expression if this issue ever went to Court. Yet, three students were suspended from school for a number of days for exercising free expression. I am not condoning the actions of the individuals involved with hanging the nooses. I do question if their Constitutional rights may have been violated.

I recognize that the rights of students who hung the nooses is not the main focus of this matter.

An assault of some kind happened. Assaulting is criminal. The punishment should fit the crime. But have the accused been treated justly by the judicial system in Louisiana?

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/070307B.shtml
I agree that the assault is what the focus of this case should be as well. However because of the racial tension that has come about for political reasons too the issue has be diverted towards the cause of the crime.

Neither of the actions are justifiable, however the law was broken in the assault and should be punished according to the laws of LA.

I recognize that the rights of students who hung the nooses is not the main focus of this matter.


I agree, but so called civil rights leaders in the US have managed once again to push the focus elsewhere, at least in the media anyway. I hope the LA courts system is not influenced in this case by the media.

I also dont know why the students were suspended other than for using poor judgement in this matter.

Yet I also dont think that the students were using the noose in this as an expression of free speech but rather to send a message to the black kids that sat beneath the tree.

I do question if their Constitutional rights may have been violated.
Personally I dont know. But from the schools point of view I would be willing to bet that there are rules against creating disturbances like this. Schools are not the same as society in general, rules and discipline need to be maintained in order to create an environment that is condusive for learning.

This happened on the grounds of the school right? You cant have kids walking around doing things like this or saying whatever they want in a school.

[ryukyuboi]

Well, students do have constitutional rights that the school authorities must respect as well. It is not like students lose these rights by entering a school zone.

If the accused were arrested on school grounds, I would be willing to bet, as a minimum, that the arresting officer was legally obligated to express their Miranda rights to them....right to remain silent, right to an attorney etc.

[newvalor]

they weren't arrested but thier punishment was carried out accordingly. they were expelled from school, being that what they did was not liked by the school officials. nobody got hurt from that except the students that got expelled for thier own action.

the group of AA's that went on and decided to trample the guy took the situation too far by committing the assault, rather than letting the students suffer in thier own punishments (college is not looking good, etc.) thats where jackson and sharpton loved jumping in a claiming the racial profiling in the case, because they think everything is racist towards thier own.

guys not to sound harsh towards you guys and say you don't know what your talking about, but read up on sharpton and jackson. they got some things that'll make your jaw drop. those two guys have turned a new page for what racism is, to the point where just using certain words is considered racism even when it's used by people of thier race.

plus jump back on one of my last post where I say even more about them, it's crazy the things they try to accomplish for thier race but everytime it ends up setting them back.

[Muku]

Well, students do have constitutional rights that the school authorities must respect as well. It is not like students lose these rights by entering a school zone.

If the accused were arrested on school grounds, I would be willing to bet, as a minimum, that the arresting officer was legally obligated to express their Miranda rights to them....right to remain silent, right to an attorney etc.

Hold on one, which students are you talking about now? The kids that got expelled or the ones that were arrested for the assault?

Oh and btw I agree they have consitutional rights, but I doubt they go so far as hanging a noose in a tree.

Just hanging a noose from the tree, or holding a demonstration, first notifying the and getting permission from the school to do so, and then hanging the noose are two different things alotogether. Plus I would bet the school would turn them down if they had requested it.

It would be the same as if a bunch of students decided to hang in effigy a doll that looked like the principal. Do you think the school is just going to sit by and allow them to get away with it? Or let's say burn an American flag on school property?

[Muku]

they weren't arrested but thier punishment was carried out accordingly. they were expelled from school, being that what they did was not liked by the school officials. nobody got hurt from that except the students that got expelled for thier own action.

the group of AA's that went on and decided to trample the guy took the situation too far by committing the assault, rather than letting the students suffer in thier own punishments (college is not looking good, etc.) thats where jackson and sharpton loved jumping in a claiming the racial profiling in the case, because they think everything is racist towards thier own.

guys not to sound harsh towards you guys and say you don't know what your talking about, but read up on sharpton and jackson. they got some things that'll make your jaw drop. those two guys have turned a new page for what racism is, to the point where just using certain words is considered racism even when it's used by people of thier race.

plus jump back on one of my last post where I say even more about them, it's crazy the things they try to accomplish for thier race but everytime it ends up setting them back.

I agree that it's about Sharpton and Jackson. Do you have any links or information available so we can learn more about what you are talking about.

Anything specific would be helpful and appreciated.

I agree that the schools action was also proper. I can not see it as a free speech issue either. At least not in the current situation.

[Fonze]

I thought the white kids only got suspended and not expelled.

[newvalor]

"80s Icon Al Sharpton" author unknown
"80s Icon Tawana Brawley" author unknown
"Al Sharpton’s Jewish Problem" by Richard Goldstein, The Village Voice

the text book I had in the class I sold back to get some spare cash when I was done, it was one of the quick 6 week classes that would run for 3 1/2 hrs so my brain quit after 45 minutes.

http://www.realchange.org/sharpton.htm

It's a good site that carries information about others as well, I found it one night while trying to find something new about leaders/followers for my class report on racial history.

I could even go as far to say that MLK was not what everybody thinks he accomplished. He was the guy that would show up after everything happened. M-X would do his rallies and leave, letting MLK show up and start chanting.

You think thats weird, there was me (hispanic) a mexican, 3 white guys, one white girl in the class and only 1 black person. I would've thought that they would have more interest in thier own history.

[DoctorP]

First off, this story happened 9 months ago!



Generally, symbolic speech (free expression) is protected under the US Constitution.

http://www.slcgov.com/mayor/speeches/free%20speech%20guidelines.htm

I don't think hanging a noose is a crime. While one may find the symbolic message offensive, I would think hanging a noose would be protected as free expression if this issue ever went to Court. Yet, three students were suspended from school for a number of days for exercising free expression. I am not condoning the actions of the individuals involved with hanging the nooses. I do question if their Constitutional rights may have been violated.

I recognize that the rights of students who hung the nooses is not the main focus of this matter.

An assault of some kind happened. Assaulting is criminal. The punishment should fit the crime. But have the accused been treated justly by the judicial system in Louisiana?

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/070307B.shtml


Hanging a noose should not be considered "free expression". It is a threatening symbol to say the least. Whoever hung it up, should have been pummelled until they decided that their dumb ass had learned a lesson and was ready to apologize. The fact that there was an understood "white only" area at a public school tells me that educators should be held at fault also. How in the hell could something like this still be happening in 2006?

[DougP]

First off, this story happened 9 months ago!






Hanging a noose should not be considered "free expression". It is a threatening symbol to say the least.

I often felt the same way about burning another country's flag. When you're protesting in a way that has a negative impact on another group be it an ethical group or not should it be considered free speech or is it a threatening gester?

If one group views another group's symbolic message as offensive does that make the message wrong? I think it might but there's always the other side standing up for their freedom of speech. Saying that the message is not supposed to be offending and that they are simply trying to express themselves. They will also say they are doing so in a rather constructive manner.

[ryukyuboi]

I was merely pointing out that the constitutional rights of the students who hung the nooses were ignored on school grounds, whereas the constitutional rights of the students who allegedly assaulted another were probably not ignored.

Students do not need the approval of the school officials to express themselves freely. For example, a student may wish to wear a button, pass out leaflets, or wear an armband expressing their view on war. We should not just stand by and let the rights of citizens be trampled upon by anyone, much less a school official.

Personally, as a citizen in a free, democratic country, it is very important that the government allow as much personal freedom as possible.... I am not into flag burning, and understand how offensive this act could be to some, but I live in a country where this free expression is legal. I don't have to agree with the message or messenger, but I uphold the right of the individual to express.

[Fonze]

In todays pc america hanging a noose might be considered a hate crime. I think 9 months is plenty of time for kicking someones ass and they should release the kids unless they have prior assault violations and have a forum 2 unite the sides within the community(no jackson or sharpton).

[DoctorP]

The fact that there was an understood "white only" area at a public school tells me that educators should be held at fault also. How in the hell could something like this still be happening in 2006?

Maybe some of you would like to read this part of my post and comment on that? I am still perplexed that this was allowed to happen.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Maybe some of you would like to read this part of my post and comment on that? I am still perplexed that this was allowed to happen.
Guess not everyone's heard of Rosa Parks.:(

[DougP]

Maybe some of you would like to read this part of my post and comment on that? I am still perplexed that this was allowed to happen.

It does supprise me but then again it doesn't. I've been told more or less that my kind wasn't welcome in certain parts before. Hell I can't tell you how many bars around here alone I've been to that actually had "Japanese Only" signs out in front. I find it deplorable that this kind of behavior still exists:thumbdown: boo I say boo:thumbdown::thumbdown::mad:

[ryukyuboi]

What was allowed to happen DoctorP?

Fonze, I like the forum suggestion, but would not exclude anyone interested.

[Fonze]

What was allowed to happen DoctorP?

Fonze, I like the forum suggestion, but would not exclude anyone interested.

I think maybe those two are to polarizing of figures to be takin serious by the opposite side. Maybe they could watch but I'm sure there is someone more amicable than them.

[DoctorP]

I was referring to the idea that there was a space that was "understood" by everyone to be "white only". (paraphrasing).

[socalheart]

A "whites only" section at a school, unofficially created by students, is wrong. Unfortunately, some of the students didn't think it was any different than having a cheerleaders, jock, nerd or burnout (for examples) table in the lunch room. Even more unfortunately, the teachers probably didn't even notice a problem with it.

Janis: [Reading list of the major cliques in high school] You got your freshmen, ROTC guys, preps, J.V. jocks, Asian nerds, Cool Asians, Varsity jocks Unfriendly black hotties, Girls who eat their feelings, Girls who don't eat anything, Desperate wannabes, Burnouts, Sexually active band geeks...

Example: Mean Girls (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0377092/)(2004). Scene from the cafeteria.

[Muku]

A "whites only" section at a school, unofficially created by students, is wrong. Unfortunately, some of the students didn't think it was any different than having a cheerleaders, jock, nerd or burnout (for examples) table in the lunch room. Even more unfortunately, the teachers probably didn't even notice a problem with it.

That's a big part of the problem as well. How how many teachers at the school are black? Not that it should matter, however I would be willing to bet that the white teachers thought nothing of the kids having their own space.

I have not idea how this could happen, other than a lack lack of education, not only of the students, but the faculty and parents as well.

[Tempestuous]

Originally Posted by DoctorP View Post
The fact that there was an understood "white only" area at a public school tells me that educators should be held at fault also. How in the hell could something like this still be happening in 2006?.

My thoughts exactly!!!!!

I can't understand that part of the issue either. Why would the school allow that?
Seems like it would only promote such issues as the one at hand.

[Tempestuous]

That's a big part of the problem as well. How how many teachers at the school are black? Not that it should matter, however I would be willing to bet that the white teachers thought nothing of the kids having their own space.

I have not idea how this could happen, other than a lack lack of education, not only of the students, but the faculty and parents as well.

Unless we are talkin about an predominantly white area tucked in some little town in Louisiana, majority of the school is likely African American.

Everywhere I have been in Louisiana, actually lived there a while & have family there, white is the minority.

But you know it is easy to make a "race" issue out of the typical clique setting. In my high school each clique had a place they hung out....but I never recall there ever being an incident if another group congregated in that area.
Something I now wonder is- Did the media twist the fact that this particular group of boys (who happened to be white) hung out under that tree into the now publicized phrase?

[Fonze]

I saw on cnn they said the town is 75% white.

[Mad Hatter]

Did the media twist the fact that this particular group of boys (who happened to be white) hung out under that tree into the now publicized phrase?


I think that your on to something here... I just think that there were a group of boys that hung out under on place... probably been doing this for alot of years. It's not that it's anyones individual fault that there was a "white tree".... that's just how kids roll now-a-days

Plus... what's wrong with having a "white tree"? There are places all over the US that if you were White... you might not make it out alive. I think the boys that hung the ropes (dumb asses yes!!!) were just marking their spots.

I remember back when I was going to school:old: there were clicks... and some clicks didn't like others... so we stayed away from each other.

So You mean to tell me that those black kids didn't know that a bunch of white boys had been sitting under that tree for some time now?

Or Maybe they knew and just wanted to start some shit!?!

[ryukyuboi]

Fonze, I also read that the ethnic make-up of Jena is 80% white. The population of this small town was slightly over 3000 people. Most of the blacks live on the outskirts of the town.

I think I also read that there was maybe one black teacher on the staff.

What exactly are people thinking/expecting when they express that the educators are at fault because a group of white students hang out under a tree? Students associate with whomever they choose in school as well as outside of school. It is not like there were classes for whites only.

[Muku]

Fonze, I also read that the ethnic make-up of Jena is 80% white. The population of this small town was slightly over 3000 people. Most of the blacks live on the outskirts of the town.

I think I also read that there was maybe one black teacher on the staff.

What exactly are people thinking/expecting when they express that the educators are at fault because a group of white students hang out under a tree? Students associate with whomever they choose in school as well as outside of school. It is not like there were classes for whites only.

Someone somewhere in that environment knowingly put that noose up in the tree. It wasnt a spur of the moment kind of thing.

If you read what I wrote it is a lack of education on everyones part that the students were so insensitive to hang a noose from the tree. It's got nothing to do with free speech, or constitional rights either.

If it had happened even 50 or 100 years ago I would be willing to lay a bet that the white kids would be fully willing to carry out that threat as well. If not at the school somewhere in the community.

It's all about some ignorant white kids, knowing fully well that their actions would provoke a response of some kind. It was a threat to the black kids in that school not to sit somewhere they weren't welcome.

That is a lack of education.....not getting the kids in the school to realize how sensitive to this day, particularly in the deep south, that these kinds symbols of hatred and terror were to the black community.

How would you feel if I burned a cross on your front lawn? I am pretty sure that you would be PO, and so would I if it happened to me, I also think that I would be afraid as well.

What they did was indefensible. Same as the assault as well.

[DoctorP]

What exactly are people thinking/expecting when they express that the educators are at fault because a group of white students hang out under a tree? Students associate with whomever they choose in school as well as outside of school. It is not like there were classes for whites only.

Are you telling me that you are so dim that if you were teaching there, you would not have noticed the difference between friends just hanging together under a tree, and whites hanging under a tree with a "known" but "unlisted" rule that blacks don't go there?

This sounds to me like plain segregation. Maybe not forced by the educators, but also not prevented either.

[ryukyuboi]

Uchinamuku, I agree.

DoctorP, I notice all kinds of racial/ethnic segregation in the USA and elsewhere.

[Fonze]

This must have not been the first time these black kids were picked on and finally took it out on this other kid. Who knows just cause this kid didn't do the noose thing he might have been part of another situation.

[Muku]

Uchinamuku, I agree.

DoctorP, I notice all kinds of racial/ethnic segregation in the USA and elsewhere.


Thanks....

I also agree that there is ethnic and racial segregation as well. I wonder which is worse, the blatantly overt type displayed symbolically by the noose or the more subtle or subconscious type that many foreigners here in Japan experience?

[TheNoNamedOne]

The more overt.

[DoctorP]

DoctorP, I notice all kinds of racial/ethnic segregation in the USA and elsewhere.


Uh, so that makes it ok?? :ohmy:

[ryukyuboi]

I just stated an observation, not a judgement of the observation.

Some people choose to be segregated from others. Immigrants into the US often choose to live among themselves for a variety of good reasons - security, language, culture, religion, etc. Free association is ok.

But if segregation occurs due to legal design, it is not ok.

[Muku]

I just stated an observation, not a judgement of the observation.

Some people choose to be segregated from others. Immigrants into the US often choose to live among themselves for a variety of good reasons - security, language, culture, religion, etc. Free association is ok.

But if segregation occurs due to legal design, it is not ok.

Even as an observation though this wasn't about immigrants and I also highly doubt that it was for security, language, culture or religion either. I find it a bit difficult to see how someone could read so much into this incident as to include all the "variety of good reasons" that you put here.

Sure free association is ok, but not to allow someone to sit underneath a tree because of the color of their skin is unjustifiable.

[Crazysix]

you guys are on the ball, I have seen racism from blacks, whites, hispanics, koreans you name it. I do get tired of seeing sharpton or jackson on everything that pertains to black, I dont reeber voting for him to be my rep. I want Tiger Woods darn it. Seriously being from the south we had race riots in schools. The kid that received the beating was able to attend a school dance later that evening, while the other kids went to jail, and now face attempted murder charges, is that fair.....no. Not like they beat him into a coma or shot him. The kids should receive at worse assault and battery charges. This town was wrong in their decision
to push the charges, but now because of attention and the stubbornness of elected officials the charges will not be dropped. The real problem began at school when officials really didnt act on the initiating factor, but prior to that parents are to blame for fostering ignorance at home and I am talking both black and white parents. Now if you come into my area/yard/personal space and hang a noose from the tree, you may find yourself hanging from it with a nail in your chest. Burn a cross, well after you put it out and receive the asswhoopin that follows, we can talk about it . Paint a swashitka (sorry about the spelling) on my house after the asswhoopin and you repainting my house while being forced to listen to r&b at gun point, I doubt you ever want to pick up a crayon. Call me a nigger, well I will look at the source and laugh and continue on with my day. Lets face it racism though it exist is the dumbest thing the human race has going against but unfortunately will never cease.
Besides that they should change the name of this case. The Jena 6 sounds like a bad singing group or a B rated Porno

[ryukyuboi]

By using the immigrant example, I was attempting to show that people have natural common bonds with each other and people gravitate towards others that share these bonds. Students are no different. They form groups. It would not surprise me at all to see all kinds of groups in a typical high school hanging out in their spot. That's all I was getting at. Educating students about racial sensitivies can be done. It doesn't necessarily follow that the message was heard, or even learned.

I agree that not allowing someone to sit under a tree due to the color of their skin is unjustifiable. I just don't believe the school per se is directly responsible for the actions of the individuals involved. In fact, in this instance, when a black student asked if it would be okay to sit under the tree, the school administrators advised the student that sitting anywhere he wanted was okay. In fact, in this instance, the principal of the school recommended that the individuals involved be expelled for hanging the nooses.

Would you place blame on a school if a high school student was busted for drugs on school grounds? Educating students on substance use and abuse begins in elementary schools these days.

Would you place blame on Columbine High School for the mass murder of students and a teacher? The high school perpetrators of the this crime were ignorant of the law?

What excuse can we collectively find to point the finger at? The School. It must be something the school didn't do, right?

Schools are far from perfect, but should not be held responsible for all the many ills within society - including racism. Individuals need to be held accountable for their own actions.

[Fonze]

So maybe they should've expelled these students to set them as an example for future race based demonstrations of hate. These kids could always go to another school.

[hardplayer]

Talk about racist? How many words in English pop to mind that mean one thing when spoken by a white vs a black person?

Yes, that is true. I feel we have to always gauge everything before we can speak. Sometimes that is maddening, or just makes me not want to voice an opinion about something. Why? I will get in trouble.

[Muku]

By using the immigrant example, I was attempting to show that people have natural common bonds with each other and people gravitate towards others that share these bonds. Students are no different. They form groups. It would not surprise me at all to see all kinds of groups in a typical high school hanging out in their spot. That's all I was getting at. Educating students about racial sensitivies can be done. It doesn't necessarily follow that the message was heard, or even learned.
But this isnt a case about immigrants, and in todays society there is a belief that blacks and whites are integrated into the school systems of the US. Now the reality may be not so, but these children were not gravitating to each other because they had anything in common other than the color of their skin. Nothing more nothing less.

I disagree with you about equaling it with immigrants, even though I understand the point you are making. They were all American kids.

Sure it can be taught, however was it taught at this particular school? If it was taught and not listened to then the school has a bigger problem on it's hands, and one that is not limited to just this case either. The roots run much deeper.

I just don't believe the school per se is directly responsible for the actions of the individuals involved. In fact, in this instance, when a black student asked if it would be okay to sit under the tree, the school administrators advised the student that sitting anywhere he wanted was okay.

I disagree with you here. Why is it or was it even necessary for the student to have to even ask in the first place? Not knowing all the facts here all I can do is speculate and guess that there was some kind of unwritten rule, or something "everyone" knew about that created the situation in the first place. And the school at some point must have been aware of it, but since there were no problems to this point did nothing. Ignorance of a situation is not a justifiable excuse in my opinion.


In fact, in this instance, the principal of the school recommended that the individuals involved be expelled for hanging the nooses

After the fact. I would like to know what the school and parents did afterwards to educate their kids about this issue. Is it possible that the beatings could have been prevented I wonder. If people had gotten involved before this got to the point where an assault occured? What other tensions were there in the school if any? Or for that matter the community. From the sound of it, the community sounds like a segregated one at that, whites in town and blacks outside? There is much that seems to me at least that is unknown.

Would you place blame on a school if a high school student was busted for drugs on school grounds? Educating students on substance use and abuse begins in elementary schools these days.
Depending on the situation, yes....BUT this case is not about sustance abuse but rather racial issues different topic in my opinion


Would you place blame on Columbine High School for the mass murder of students and a teacher? The high school perpetrators of the this crime were ignorant of the law?
Once again different circumstances, however the school does have a responsibility to protect the students to the best oftheir ability. Not every posibility can be covered though.



What excuse can we collectively find to point the finger at? The School. It must be something the school didn't do, right?

Schools are far from perfect, but should not be held responsible for all the many ills within society - including racism. Individuals need to be held accountable for their own actions.

I am not pointing fingers at anyone individual, I would hope that is not how you read my replies so far. It is a problem of society in general as well. And from that point of view the school has a responsiblity in this case as well.

Of course individuals must be held responsible, you'll get no argument from me there.

Lastly I never wrote or suggested that the school was totally responsible either btw:)

[DoctorP]

This next quote is from the OP story:

The incident followed months of racial tension, sparked originally when three white teens hung nooses from an oak tree the day after a group of black students violated an unofficial rule among students that only whites sit in that area

If this was an unofficial rule among students, then I would have to believe that the educators knew full well what was going on. To not lay blame on the educational system would be a travesty IMO.

[DoctorP]

This next part is from an editorial written on the subject:

If there was ever a question of whether students of a certain race could congregate under a campus shade tree, school officials should have dealt with that straight away instead of deciding long after the fact to cut down the tree.
When nooses were hung from the tree, administrators should have set up programs to deal with racial intolerance. If criminal charges were warranted at all, District Attorney Walters should have hit the fighting students with charges that were appropriate to their alleged infractions.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/5160825.html


I have to agree with all that was written...I also agree that the punishments for the white boys that hung the nooses should have been more in line with what was leveed on the black students for fighting.

...after reading some more on this I found this in another article from Aug, 2006:


During the assembly, Bowens said, black students asked if they could sit under a tree with white students who usually eat there, and Windham told them they could sit wherever they wanted. The nooses appeared later that week.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/09/08/america/NA_GEN_US_High_School_Nooses.php


This tells me that the educators of that school felt that there was no tension and that everything was ok. Now I must believe that the three white teens were just total idiots, and they, and their parents should be beaten down!

[Fonze]

When I was in juniopr high there was a tree our "click" hung out under and then another "click" would beat us to it sometimes and that started fights so what the teachers did was ban anyone from hanging out at the tree. They even brought in school police for a couple of weeks to arrest anyone that violated it.

Off topic DocP you have been beat on stick men!

[ryukyuboi]

The present actions of the criminal justice system seem to be more under the microscope than Jena High School from what I have been reading.

In a community of less than 3000, probably everyone knew what was going on everywhere, not only at school, but in the church, at the mayor's office and the grocery store.

[DoctorP]

When I was in juniopr high there was a tree our "click" hung out under and then another "click" would beat us to it sometimes and that started fights so what the teachers did was ban anyone from hanging out at the tree. They even brought in school police for a couple of weeks to arrest anyone that violated it.

Off topic DocP you have been beat on stick men!

only for a few seconds! Check for yourself! :thumbup:

[Muku]

The present actions of the criminal justice system seem to be more under the microscope than Jena High School from what I have been reading.

In a community of less than 3000, probably everyone knew what was going on everywhere, not only at school, but in the church, at the mayor's office and the grocery store.
I dont know if that is true or not.

However, there does seem to be more than meets the eye, and if necessary I would say that maybe in this case the system in place in that particular town very well needs to be under a microscope.

While the assailants deserve the punishment they get from within the system for beating a classmate, the school and the community need to take a good hard look at the underlying reasons that the kids felt comfortable enough to put that noose there in the first place.

This sounds more like something that occured back in the 30's, 40's or 50's and not in 2007.

[DoctorP]

I dont know if that is true or not.

However, there does seem to be more than meets the eye, and if necessary I would say that maybe in this case the system in place in that particular town very well needs to be under a microscope.

While the assailants deserve the punishment they get from within the system for beating a classmate, the school and the community need to take a good hard look at the underlying reasons that the kids felt comfortable enough to put that noose there in the first place.

This sounds more like something that occured back in the 30's, 40's or 50's and not in 2007.

Actually it happened wayyyyyy back in Aug 2006! :thumbdown:

[Crazysix]

Here is a good site with pretty good history, and up to date incidents in jena
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jena_Six

[ryukyuboi]

Is there a reason you left out the 1960s? The Bush in Koza was alive and well during the 60s when the US military administered everything on the island. The Bush was an all black, strictly black area. Imagine the military allowing such a travesty to exist.....