Miscreant Makah Indians kill whale

[TheNoNamedOne]

Well, what do you get when someone uses their culture to justify anything? A lot of horrible things mixed in with the good. And one of the former is the blatant disregard of law and the machine-gunning of a grey whale recently.

NEAH BAY, Washington (AP) -- The Makah Tribal Council (http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/09/09/whale.shot.ap/) on Sunday denounced the killing of a California gray whale that was harpooned and shot several times off Washington's coast, calling it "a blatant violation of our law" and promising to prosecute those responsible.

But pride in culture dies hard, and many feel the government does not have the right to deny them of what is in their "blood."

And the lout said:
"I'm not ashamed. I'm feeling kind of proud," he told The Seattle Times. "There is only a few guys in Neah Bay that can get a whale and bring everyone home safely. You think one of the only whaling captains in 77 years could give it up? I should have done it years ago. I come from a whaling family... It's in the blood (http://hsus.typepad.com/wayne/2007/09/makah-whale-hun.html)."

Funny to hear Native Americans boasting about slaughtering life. At one time they were considered animals and their slaughter, too, was boasted about. I guess pride erases empathy -- and memory.

A whale died (http://hsus.typepad.com/wayne/2007/09/makah-whale-hun.html)this weekend near Seattle after being struck with five harpoons and four sealing harpoons and then shot with a .460 caliber rifle—a firearm so powerful that the bullet can travel four miles. The 40-foot-long gray whale eventually succumbed to the grievous wounds and was left for dead in the ocean. It was a miserable and awful death for a gentle creature just swimming around and living life in Neah Bay—a whale who had perhaps come across thousands of boats, many filled with whale watchers, and never saw any reason to fear them.

The big question is:
"What type of culture needs a machine gun to kill a defenseless animal?" (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2003879892_wedlets12.html)

"Cultural"? With a machine gun? What type of culture needs a machine gun to kill a defenseless animal?

As a former Seattle resident, I understand culture and am appalled. After all, I have lived in Saipan for 12 years with Chamorros, Carolinians, Filipinos, Koreans, Japanese and other people from the Asia Pacific region. I now live in Guam, with people from the same area. This is the first I have heard that using a machine gun is "culturally OK" to meet subsistence fishing rights.

http://media.komotv.com/images/070908_whale_harpooned.jpg

http://media.modbee.com/smedia/2007/09/09/01/962Whale_Shot.sff.embedded.prod_affiliate.11.jpg

[Fonze]

More pictures more pictures.

[Muku]

A whale died this weekend near Seattle after being struck with five harpoons and four sealing harpoons and then shot with a .460 caliber rifle—a firearm so powerful that the bullet can travel four miles.

Strange coming from activists that are so concerned about the manner that animals are euthanized that they should complain about the use of a firearm this powerful. At least the whale when found to be suffering was put out of its misery as painlessly as possbile.

Interesting thread here though, another fish got itself killed.

Fonze wrote;
Oh ya theres already other threads with the same shite going on don't clog the forum with more of the same.

True, but please remember that if you are going to make a comment like this you need to insert it into the thread in such a manner that it doesnt take the post off topic.:D

[TheNoNamedOne]

At least the whale when found to be suffering was put out of its misery as painlessly as possbile.

Had the law not been broken there would have been no killing regardless.

Interesting thread here though, another fish got itself killed.

Someone skipped that biology lesson. Here is some late schooling for ya: A whale is not a fish. Tis a mammal. lol.

[Muku]

Had the law not been broken there would have been no killing regardless.
Hmmm tribal laws says otherwise right? So no laws of the tribe were broken.

So just whose law got broken here?

Someone skipped that biology lesson. Here is some late schooling for ya: A whale is not a fish. Tis a mammal. lol
Gotcha again, I knew that, you knew that, and damn near everyone else here knows it as well.:D

Like I wrote in another thread, you are so predictable. This is as easy as taking candy corn from a baby:D

[TheNoNamedOne]

Hmmm tribal laws says otherwise right? So no laws of the tribe were broken.

So just whose law got broken here?

The Makah were well aware (http://hsus.typepad.com/wayne/2007/09/makah-whale-hun.html) that a federal court had ordered them not to kill a whale. The tribe has been seeking a waiver to the Marine Mammal Protection Act that would allow them to go whaling and not be bound by the protective provisions of the Act.

Isn't it a violation of the law to go against a federal court order or to violate the Marine Mammal Protection Act?

Gotcha again, I knew that, you knew that, and damn near everyone else here knows it as well.

You knew that I knew that, but strange you didn't know that. Though some don't mind wearing ignorance on their sleeve.

Like I wrote in another thread, you are so predictable.

Yeah, another thread you can't keep out of keeps proving that about your predictability, and the fact you can't stop posting to me even after you said you would stop.

[Muku]

The Makah were well aware that a federal court had ordered them not to kill a whale. The tribe has been seeking a waiver to the Marine Mammal Protection Act that would allow them to go whaling and not be bound by the protective provisions of the Act.

Isn't it a violation of the law to go against a federal court order or to violate the Marine Mammal Protection Act?

If tribal law says otherwise then I vote that no they didnt break any laws. The government isnt going to do anything about it either I'd be willing to bet.

Off topic reply to an off topic reply;
Yeah, another thread you can't keep out of keeps proving that about your predictability, and the fact you can't stop posting to me even after you said you would stop.

Why dont you go back and actually read what I wrote, you just might find that you are making an arse out of yourself by saying this.

Do I need to actually embarrass you some more and point out your mistake for you?

To refresh your memory a bit here this is what is actually written there; you again made the assumption that I said I would stop.

Also to let you know that we are pretty much going to ignore you, shall we say, your more than a little off the wall commentary, from our point of view anyway, and let you say what you want to say. On occasion some may reply but, we'll see how it goes

Once again, hook, line, and sinker...and this time no bait at all, you took it all by your lonesome. Thank you.

[TheNoNamedOne]

If tribal law says otherwise then I vote that no they didnt break any laws. The government isnt going to do anything about it either I'd be willing to bet.

Tribal law cannot violate federal law or acts of congress AND tribes must get permission to hunt whales from the Federal Government. Violating a federal court order is a violation of law.

Whether the Federal Government does anything about it, however, is another story. Their prosecutors will act on their discression. But they most certainly do have jurisdiction to act.

As for your other part, yes, we did see. Postings to me did not decrease eventhough you tried to make a little silly coalition. And you still never told us who us, we, and our, are? The 3 Strooges? That's my guess -- if there actually are three.

[Muku]

Tribal law cannot violate federal law or acts of congress AND tribes must get permission to hunt whales from the Federal Government. Violating a federal court order is a violation of law.

Whether the Federal Government does anything about it, however, is another story. Their prosecutors will act on their discression. But they most certainly do have jurisdiction to act.


I will wager the government does nothing, and to the tribe, dont know for sure, but I doubt they care one way or the other what the government thinks anyway in this case.

As for your other part, yes, we did see. Postings to me did not decrease eventhough you tried to make a little silly coalition. And you still never told us who us, we, and our, are? The 3 Strooges? That's my guess -- if there actually are three

Damn like I have been trying to tell you all along here today, you are a sucker for posts like the one I wrote before here and got you to reply like this.

I can not believe that you are so damn gullible. I guess I gave you more credit than you deserved.

Keep guessing....because I am never going to divulge my cohorts. For all you know it could all be "ME" with split personalities, or maybe not? :D

[dk]

Uchi the father, Uchi the son, and Uchi the holy forum poster?

[TheNoNamedOne]

Uchi the father, Uchi the son, and Uchi the holy forum poster?

Yes, question marks do make the point.

Perhaps this is more accurate: Uchi, the holy one who BSes.

"You are so gullible, got you to do what I wanted...bla bla blah" Funny if not sad.

[TheNoNamedOne]

I will wager the government does nothing, and to the tribe, dont know for sure, but I doubt they care one way or the other what the government thinks anyway in this case.

Whether the government does act or not only time will tell. They do have jurisdiction though, which you still have not been able to admit.

The tribe probably does care because they have been kissing ass to the government for the last few years trying to get them to let them start traditional whale hunting again -- which the government yanked from them.

Ha! Take that Makah culture!!

[Muku]

Uchi the father, Uchi the son, and Uchi the holy forum poster?


Bless you my son, bless you. May you never be the recipient of a virus!

Perhaps this is more accurate: Uchi the holy BSer.


I am not going to touch this one tonight, it just sound to me like the whinning of a child that cant think of anything else to say, particularly after they have gotten their asses wacked.:D

[TheNoNamedOne]

Yes. We know. Declarations are easy, Uchi. You'd probably best use your time back in the arcade at Mahjong since you are coming up short here.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Yes. We know. Declarations are easy, Uchi. You'd probably best use your time back in the arcade at Mahjong since you are coming up short here.

Oh funny! Done left. BINGO!!

So predictable indeed. LMAO!

[Muku]

Dude is seriously lonely here guys....replying to his own posts and attempting humor at the same time.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Yeah, dk and I both have on occassion quoted ourselves. Guilty as charged. But not lonely. My wife is right here in the same room playing the piano. Nice listening.

[P_chan]

Ha! Take that Makah culture!!

Take that? Why should they take that? Basically, the way I'm reading this, your saying screw their culture. Why? Because their culture clashes with your messed up views on animals? I'm going to assume something here, even thought I don't like to. Your for equal rights correct? Equal rights for gays, minorities, the handicap, CULTURE, and *gulp even animals. So why would you say "Take That" to someone's culture once they are not allowed to practice what their culture teaches?

[socalheart]

(o.O) You guys argue a lot about the same things, huh?

So, from I what understand... The Makah, an American Indian tribe, law states that it's legal to hunt this particular whale for their tribe. Federal U.S. law says that hunting this particular whale is illegal period. (Just talking about this one whale for now as it pertains to the story, not every whale in existence.)

If that's the way it's written, then the Makah have every right as a sovereign nation within the USA to hunt this whale on their reservation lands. If the whale isn't on their land, then it's illegal to hunt it per federal law. It seems simple enough to me. (The last I heard, whales aren't frequently found on land.)

[TheNoNamedOne]

Here is what the tribe itself has said about their own laws on the matter, not to mention that they have violated federal law as well:

All five men (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/11/us/11whale.html?_r=1&oref=slogin) were released after spending much of Saturday evening in jail. A statement by the tribe said all were booked at the Makah jail but gave no indication of the charges.

The statement also denounced the actions of the whalers, saying that they took it on themselves to conduct the hunt and that it was a “blatant violation of our law.”

The hunt was illegal by federal standards and their own tribal law.

And to reiterate the view on it with a quote from their own tribal governor, Christine Gregoir:
“Not only did we lose a very important species here, but that is now sitting at the bottom of the water,” she said at her weekly meeting with reporters. “It does nothing. And it flies in the face of the law.”

and...

The United States attorney’s office here said the whale killing could result in a year in jail and a $20,000 fine.

[newvalor]

Take that? Why should they take that? Basically, the way I'm reading this, your saying screw their culture. Why? Because their culture clashes with your messed up views on animals? I'm going to assume something here, even thought I don't like to. Your for equal rights correct? Equal rights for gays, minorities, the handicap, CULTURE, and *gulp even animals. So why would you say "Take That" to someone's culture once they are not allowed to practice what their culture teaches?



You have seen the Topic Title, kinda Stereotypical don't ya think. But hey since I've now brought it up he'll probably go and edit like everything else here.

[P_chan]

You have seen the Topic Title, kinda Stereotypical don't ya think. But hey since I've now brought it up he'll probably go and edit like everything else here.

Well he didn't address what I asked him anyways. I'm not really surprised about that though.

[Fonze]

I wonder why he does this so often. :rolleyes: Wheres the other pictures.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Basically, the way I'm reading this, your saying screw their culture. Why? Because their culture clashes with your messed up views on animals?

Well, laws will determine if my views are messed up. Laws on the books and those recently passed have been confirming that my views are quite compatible with the views of judges and legislatures -- despite cultures or their subcultures. Sure, there is a lot more work to do, and those cultures that exploit and cause suffering to animals will see more imposition on their practices one by one -- and those practices will fall one by one.

I'm going to assume something here, even thought I don't like to. Your for equal rights correct? Equal rights for gays, minorities, the handicap, CULTURE, and *gulp even animals. So why would you say "Take That" to someone's culture once they are not allowed to practice what their culture teaches?

Because rights that impose exploitation on beings cause suffering and The Rights View views that as wrong. That is why white southern culture of 150 years ago could not be defended. Are you saying that THAT culture of 150 years ago should have been defended based on culture as a defense?

Basically, you are putting forth a logical falicy -- more specifically the one known as Appeal to Tradition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_tradition)(school yourself). That doesn't and has never held up against social change seeking to alleviate oppression and exploitation.

[TheNoNamedOne]

The Makah whale hunt is bound by federal permit and must conform to those conditions in order to be legal and allowed to go foreward.

And it was done (http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=whalehunt10m&date=20070910) without conforming to conditions of the federal permit that controlled that 1999 hunt -- permission from the tribe; prior notification to a federal observer who had to be in place at the time of the kill; restricting the hunt to the outer coast to protect "resident" whales in the Strait of Juan de Fuca; approaching the whale in a traditional canoe; and using first a harpoon and then a .50-caliber gun to dispatch the whale.

On Saturday, there was no permit, no observer, no canoe; no restricting the hunt to the coast. Just five whalers, four from the 1999 hunt, casting loose from the downtown dock.

The case isn't looking very good for these miscreants and their total disregard of law.

"Why mess around with a canoe?" Johnson said. "It would have been more people in jail, and we would have lost the canoe."

Well, there goes part of the cultural argument for whaling. No cultural canoe needed anymore.

[Muku]

That is why white southern culture of 150 years ago could not be defended. Are you saying that THAT culture of 150 years ago should have been defended based on culture as a defense?

Here we go again....:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:: rolleyes:

Taking an animal rights issue and managing to interject and equal it to a human rights issue.



What are you going to try and say next, "Killing the whale was racist":rolleyes:

[Fonze]

I think TP is having a comprehension problem about slavery and his trying to interject them with AR is indignant.

Who's Fukin culture was it to have slaves? No ones, only despicable people own others for that purpose. Culture has nothing to do with it. If it did then the whole world is guilty cause the Romans, Egyptians, Chinese, Japanese, Aztecs and Mayans and alot more not named here INCLUDING Africans. So for some that thinks his brain is king needs to do some studying.

[P_chan]

Pretty soon they will have a new word for discriminating against animals. Something like "animalist" or "murderer" (oh wait they already use that one:rolleyes:), or anything to try and make you feel bad for being at the top of the food chain.

TP forgets that animals don't have the same rights as humans AND SHOULDN'T. The day an animal has the same rights as me is the day I go and slaughter me some AR nut jobs. After all, they are equal to animals so why can't I slaughter them like animals?

[TheNoNamedOne]

Pretty soon they will have a new word for discriminating against animals. Something like "animalist" or "murderer" (oh wait they already use that one:rolleyes:), or anything to try and make you feel bad for being at the top of the food chain.

That word already exists, and has since the early 70's. It is called speciesism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciesism). Since you are well enough not aware of it, take a moment to school up on it.

And it isn't there to make you feel bad about being at the top of the food chain, no more than the word racism was created to make one race feel bad about their treatment of another. These words are coined to categorize certain characteristics of behaviour and to examine their phylosophical underpinnings. Feeling bad abuot these words being directed to one's person is a bi-product that is dependent upon the perspective of the person who it is aimed at.

TP forgets that animals don't have the same rights as humans AND SHOULDN'T.

Now, why would you think I have forgotten or am not aware of the present legal standing of animals if in fact I am fighting for them to get those rights? Geeeez!

Humans have the rights they have not because they are human, but because legislatures and world bodies have deemed it through law and developing custom. They have come about due to the fluid nature of law and custom. Since law and custom are fluid, they can easily be ammended to widen those beings which fall under their protection. And in fact we see that happening with the evolution of laws to protect animals.

The day an animal has the same rights as me is the day I go and slaughter me some AR nut jobs.

Well, then you will be safe from having to perform that nasty deed, for AR has no intention of making it so animals can vote or apply for a job without race or religion not being a factor.

After all, they are equal to animals so why can't I slaughter them like animals?

What are you talking about? Presently you can. But you have to abide by laws already passed for minimizing cruelty in the slaughter process. See!? The law has already crept up on you even in that area. You seem to not understand, P, AR is an evolving one of laws and regulations that are not going to come in one fell swoop. Already you are not aware of all their successes. That is why you speak ignorantly about them as if you think their goal is to win the same rights for them as that which you have.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Those miscreant Makah whale killers are in for some Makah trouble as the tribe's judge is about to go tribal on them. Judges Jean and Emma are pretty ill pleased with what those louts have done and intend to exercise their power by metting out some reservation justice.

...the hunt was unauthorized (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003886879_whale16m.html) and regrettable. And they[Makah representatives] have assured the federal authorities that in addition to whatever the feds do, the men will face tribal prosecution.

And get this, in Makah tribal court they are not presumed innocent. Ha!

Neither of them[tribal judges Jean and Emma] makes any pretense of a presumption of innocence for the five whalers. And that's not unusual in tribal court.

Lesson for Makahs: Don't be miscreant law breakers if you don't want to appear before tribal judges Jean and Emma.

[Fonze]

Do you even know how Indian Reservations work dude.

First they're probably related and second they put this out as a public stunt for fools like you. Unless you kill a human tribal justice in my experience is the most linient i've ever seen.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Do you even know how Indian Reservations work dude.

... Unless you kill a human tribal justice in my experience is the most linient i've ever seen.

Well, this man Johnson on this reservation sure isn't taking it lightly. He confesses to being quite worried, Fonze. Maybe he, too, doesn't know how Indian Reservations work despite living on one:

Possible penalties (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003886879_whale16m.html) could include up to a year in jail in Neah Bay and a $5,000 fine.

None of this is lost on the men who killed the whale.

"Of course I'm worried about what could happen," Wayne Johnson, one of the whalers, said last week.

"That jail is like a dog pound. I had a friend in there and they fed him the same surplus-commodity TV dinners from Fort Lewis for three months."

Being kept in a dog pound like existence doesn't sound too lenient to me. He doesn't think so either, Fonze. The thought of a year in there plus a $5,000 fine is worrying him. Are you going to tell him that is lenient and that he doesn't know how Indian reservations work, ----- eeeeerrrrr, dude?

[dk]

TV dinners don't sound too bad. I could use a vacation!

*looks for a harpoon and an ak-47*

[TheNoNamedOne]

I will wager the government does nothing, and to the tribe, dont know for sure, but I doubt they care one way or the other what the government thinks anyway in this case.

@underlined:

Oh really? Then why did they quickly send a delegation to Washington after the killing to meet with officials to assure them that they still respected the Whaling Moratorium order and that they viewed the actions of the whalers as unlawful and that they would be tried in tribal court?

Sounds like if they didn't care they wouldn't have sent a delegation to do some explaining and reassuring.

Of course they care! They are trying to get the government to let them hunt whales again so they are jumping through hoops at trying to appease them over this. This threatens to derail their efforts at getting traditional hunts approved again.

Of course, I don't expect you to come back and say "good point made" or "fair enough" after you have been shown to be decisively wrong on this point (and others throughout this thread), but one can hope... huh?

[Muku]

I will wait two or three weeks from now, well after everyone else has forgotten this thread, necromance it back to life, similar to someone here and then give you a response.

Tactic sound familiar to you?












To those not familiar with the term Necromance in relationship to a web forum here is one rather accurate definition;
Forum necromancy (a.k.a. Thread necromancy) is the dark art of resurrecting long-dead forum threads on forums by posting something new in them and sending them to the very top of the list. This heinous act is not to be mistaken with a "bump" -- sending a baby thread with trouble attracting viewers' eyeballs back to the top of the list. "Bumping" is no more reprehensible than "grinding" is. But beware those who seek to raise dead topics from the grave! These people are dangerous

[TheNoNamedOne]

Oh man, dude! That is just funny!!!

Well, besides the laughter from myself, I see my posts still stand without any address to the points that have shown you decisively wrong on points here.

[Muku]

Oh man, dude! That is just funny!!!

Well, besides the laughter from myself, I see my posts still stand without any address to the points that have shown you decisively wrong on points here.

Like I said in my reply...wait for the "magic" of the necromancer....ooppss that title belongs to someone else here sorry:-|

[TheNoNamedOne]

Uhhhmmm... ok.

Anything on topic to the subject of the thread you have and would like to add?

[Muku]

Uhhhmmm... ok.

Anything on topic to the subject of the thread you have and would like to add?

Are you going to lock it if someone doesnt reply?

[P_chan]

Are you going to lock it if someone doesnt reply?

No he will just let it sit and die for a month. Then he'll be back and he'll 'necromance' it back to life:D

[TheNoNamedOne]

Are you going to lock it if someone doesnt reply?

Why do you ask that? Do you think threads should be locked just because no one replies or if they are inactive?

Besides, this thread is related to a developing news story. Also, while members at any time may lose interest in posting in a thread, new members may come along in the future and add a different perspective with their comments.

[Muku]

Why do you ask that? Do you think threads should be locked just because no one replies or if they are inactive?

Just asked a simple question that's all.:D

[hardplayer]

Strange coming from activists that are so concerned about the manner that animals are euthanized that they should complain about the use of a firearm this powerful. At least the whale when found to be suffering was put out of its misery as painlessly as possbile.

Interesting thread here though, another fish got itself killed.


I am not an activist but reading this story bothers me. Your another fish got itself killed comes off rahter cold. I dont even think it has a point to the talk.

I am sorry, I am reading htis thread now and catching up. I read parts of it a couple days ago. But that seems like a stupid thing to say.

[hardplayer]

Because rights that impose exploitation on beings cause suffering and The Rights View views that as wrong.

What is The Rights View? Is that animal rights? Is that what AR means? I think I have seen this here in other topics this forum so I geuss they are the same?

I am catching up on this thread. It is not too long I think.

[hardplayer]

I will wait two or three weeks from now, well after everyone else has forgotten this thread, necromance it back to life, similar to someone here and then give you a response.

Tactic sound familiar to you?

So we are not allowed to bring old topics back to life? What? I just asked that in my Meet and Greet introduction and someone told me it was ok to do. IF I do this I always have to worry about this kind of reply? Kinda discouraging to those who find an interesting conversation and want to add to it.

I am new here. There are a lot of things that are old to you guys but not me and want to say soemthing about it and am busy so I dont get time to stay caught up.

I dont see how your kind of post is helpful to promote new people feeling welcome to join topics. Do you want me to start a new thread on Mahkah waling so it is not what you describe?

[DoctorP]

You are more than welcome to post your thoughts in any thread. Threads remain open because new members may come along and want to add their own thoughts and ideas. Also, new information may come to light. Do not let anyone discourage you from posting.

[Fonze]

I think that post was something personal towards TP. Continue reading other threads and you will find out who really is the discourager of you wanting to post.

[DoctorP]

Please do not make this a "TP" thread! Keep it on topic!

[hardplayer]

You are more than welcome to post your thoughts in any thread. Threads remain open because new members may come along and want to add their own thoughts and ideas. Also, new information may come to light. Do not let anyone discourage you from posting.

Thank you for making that clear. But I may have things I want to talk about over a long time and want to keep that topic alive when I get a chance to be active here. I gess I am going to be called the same thing sometime in the future if someone disagrees with my opinion.

[DoctorP]

Thank you for making that clear. But I may have things I want to talk about over a long time and want to keep that topic alive when I get a chance to be active here. I gess I am going to be called the same thing sometime in the future if someone disagrees with my opinion.

No biggie....do words hurt that bad?

Bring up what you like!

[hardplayer]

I think that post was something personal towards TP. Continue reading other threads and you will find out who really is the discourager of you wanting to post.

I read some. Not all. There is a lot. I dont agree wth him on many things. I support the Iraq war he is against. I eat meat. But I enjyo his wrting eventhough they are different from my opinion.

Eventually i will finish reading TheProsecutor thread. It is quite interestng. Lots of humor in there if no one takes it personal. I went there once but it was kinda intimidating at first. Someone told me to go to a wax thread instead.

[hardplayer]

No biggie....do words hurt that bad?

Bring up what you like!

Thank you about that. I will.

No words dont hurt that bad. I think you are missing the most important point. That part I was questioning just I didnt see related to the discussion, except to try and stop it from the main participant. Disagreements have main players in them, so those should be the ones who should always be welcome to post if they have the most knowledge or passion on that topic. TP has shown that so why would someone be in a way to try and get him to stop?

[Muku]

So we are not allowed to bring old topics back to life? What? I just asked that in my Meet and Greet introduction and someone told me it was ok to do. IF I do this I always have to worry about this kind of reply? Kinda discouraging to those who find an interesting conversation and want to add to it.

I am new here. There are a lot of things that are old to you guys but not me and want to say soemthing about it and am busy so I dont get time to stay caught up.

I dont see how your kind of post is helpful to promote new people feeling welcome to join topics. Do you want me to start a new thread on Mahkah waling so it is not what you describe?
First off in reply to the very first sentence here I never said that, please dont assume it. You are free to do whatever you wish with any thread here. As Fonze wrote it is something personal, there is quite a bit more to it than just this one thread.

There are tons of other threads here that are not helpful, to use your words, to promote welcoming new people into topics, it isnt just here, and that is just a friendly note that you may want to keep in mind while reading the threads here. To pick this one out and comment like you have seems a bit, well, strange to me....particularly after your comment about the TP thread.

Interesting......

Either way enjoy your stay.

[DoctorP]

hardplayer feel free to post and get this back on topic. I am bowing out of this as there is no need to continue this part of the discussion.

[TheNoNamedOne]

WHOA! Will get back to this.

[TheNoNamedOne]

On Thursday, the five Makah members were charged by a federal grand jury (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420AP_WA_Whale_Shot.html) with misdemeanor counts for killing the whale during a rogue hunt last month. The indictment charged the men with conspiracy, unlawful taking of a marine mammal and unauthorized whaling, each punishable by a maximum year in jail and $100,000 fine.

Damn, and I thought most misdameanors ended up as $50 fines.

Glad to see a federal indictment. Will be nice to see tribal law piled on to it also.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Little by little more of the information from this case involving these louts from the Makaw tribe and their killing of a whale last September is coming out into the open.

Whoa! Check out these excerpts and the original scathing news article where they come from:

Stumblebum whalers mounted cruel spectacle (http://www.thenewstribune.com/opinion/story/209342.html)
THE NEWS TRIBUNE
Published: November 21st, 2007 01:00 AM

Not only did they[the arrested Makaw poachers] apparently violate every applicable federal and tribal law – for which they face criminal charges – they botched their poaching so badly that the whale suffered for nearly 10 hours before it finally died. ...

This was the gang that couldn’t harpoon straight. The five wannabe whalers sank four harpoons into the creature without killing it. They also shot it no fewer than 16 times with a .460 Magnum rifle.

They had started out with a more powerful rifle, a formidable .577 caliber weapon that had quickly killed another gray whale in the Makah tribe’s legal 1999 hunt. But they accidentally dropped it overboard.

When the Coast Guard caught up with the fiasco and stopped the torture, the whalers asked for permission to return to shore for more ammunition.

In retrospect, anything that would have put the animal out of its misery at that point would have been a good thing. But these Barney Fifes might have riddled the whale with bullets without killing it. ...

There’s only one reason this whale suffered: It was deliberately attacked by five incompetents in violation of the law. Their vaunted whaling expertise wasn’t up to making a quick kill or even keeping their gun from tumbling into the deep.

The result was a prolonged spectacle of human cruelty. A rat shouldn’t have to die like that, let alone a whale under the protection of the U.S. government.

[TheNoNamedOne]

CONVICTED!

Judge Convicts 2 Makah in Whale Hunt (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hSCPXrHT9ZVLLO7QLBLYvK2mTlsAD8VTETU00)
By GENE JOHNSON – Apr 7, 2008

TACOMA, Wash. (AP) — Two Makah tribal members who led an unsanctioned gray whale hunt last September have been convicted of federal misdemeanor charges. ...

The two were convicted of conspiracy to violate the Marine Mammal Protection Act and unlawfully taking a marine mammal. ...

He[U.S. Magistrate Judge J. Kelley Arnold] also had denied their motions to dismiss the charges based on the Makah tribe's treaty rights to hunt whales. ...

Sentencing is set for June 20. They face a maximum of one year in jail on each count.

"My mom's going to kill me," Johnson joked as the hearing ended.

Look on the bright side, Wayne, she'll probably kill ya much faster than the hours it took fer yer bunch to kill that whale with all the harpoons you stuck in her. Does yer mom own a handgun?

btw, the other 3 miscreants of his team pleaded guilty approx a week prior.

Next update: Sentencing party in June.

[TheNoNamedOne]

I will wager the government does nothing,...


Well, Muk ol' boy... looks like you are wrong -- again. The government sure has done something!

2 Makahs to serve time for illegally killing whale (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008026795_makah01m.html)

Johnson received the longest sentence, five months at the federal detention center in SeaTac — more than double what prosecutors had requested. Noel is to serve 90 days. ...

"They decided to take the law into their own hands. They defied their own community and the laws of this country, which they well knew."

He said Johnson's attorney was "disingenuous" for suggesting there was no difference in the role played by the whalers in the hunt, and accused the whalers of "a conspiracy of silence" to protect each other. "The Court didn't just fall off the turnip truck," he snapped. "I can make an independent judgment as to who is more responsible." ...


Miscreants moved to jail!

Muk (aka Uchinamuku), you should stop wagering.

[OCanadaOurHomeAndNativeLand]

Interesting thread here though, another fish got itself killed.

Like George Castanza the 'marine biologist', you too will learn that whales are mammals.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/v5cache/TBS/Images/Dynamic/i23/seinfeld_episode078_337x233_040420061510.jpg

And, now that we have the rest of the story, I invite you to have a slice of humble pie.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/80/Sein_ep514.jpg

The longer you wait, the worse it's gonna taste...

http://www.culinaryartsblog.com/images/Pie_01.JPG

[TheNoNamedOne]

Here is ol' miscreant Wayne Johnson himself.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2008/04/07/2004333791.jpg