Why don't marines let women marines get buzz cuts? [Archive]

TheNoNamedOne

09-09-2007, 04:50 PM

Probably one of the biggest markers of being a marine is that traditional marine high and tight. It screams, "I AM A U.S. MARINE!" Indeed, far from bases, camps, or port cities, civilians or former marines may approach them when they are in civies and say, "You are a marine, aren't you?" and some conversation is struck up on that -- often times with former marines going into war stories for the benefit of the marine they approached.

I think marines take pride in the fact that they can stand out even in civies and nothing does that for them more than a high and tight haircut.

Why should women marines be denied that same experience? I think that if they want to get a high and tight, then they should be allowed to. There is no practical reason to deny it, is there? -- other than discriminating against them and wanting them to retain femininity. But, if a woman who is in the marines wants nothing to do with femininity and wants to sport a highly motivating hard charg'n kick ass oohrah oorah high and tight (or buzz cut), then why not?

Besides, some women in buzz cuts look tough and are sexy:
http://edition.cnn.com/STYLE/9608/03/buzz.cuts/demi.large.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/49/129538013_c43ea573c9_o.jpg

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/3012664/2/istockphoto_3012664_pretty_woman_smiling.jpg

Surely nothing unprofessional about it.

socalheart

09-09-2007, 05:15 PM

Is there actually a regulation against female Marines getting a buzz cut? If so, what is its wording?

(Who's in that third pic, and why is she so danged perky? She bugs me...)

P_chan

09-09-2007, 05:17 PM

bald women scare me.

TheNoNamedOne

09-09-2007, 05:36 PM

Is there actually a regulation against female Marines getting a buzz cut? If so, what is its wording?

Yes, it is a new reg. Haven't tracked the official order down yet, but here is a PDF on the matter from the Marines:

Women’s hairstyles are also covered. (http://www.logcom.usmc.mil/logcom/files/grooming%20standards%20article.pdf) In response to a number of female Marines shaving their heads in Iraq, the board decided to define how short a woman’s hair can be, Boyt said.

During the review process, the board received feedback from male officers who wanted women to maintain feminine hairdos to ensure “they could tell the difference between their male and female Marines,” Boyt said. The new regulation states women must have hair longer than a quarter-inch from the scalp.

So, basically, here these women are in Iraq 'fighting for their country' risking their lives, and probably wanting to keep their heads buzzed for hygene reasons in the dry air where they are sweating and baking all the time, and the men marines want them to look feminine.

Their reasoning? So they can tell them apart from men. WTF! You gotta be kidding me, right? Would that really be a problem affecting the overall mission of the marine corps?

Let's listen in on a Marine conversation:

"Oh shit! StfSgt Jones, I phuked up and sent Smith out on patrol."

"So, what's the problem?

"At the time I didn't notice she was a woman. She didn't look feminin."

"Oh. Well, don't make that mistake again."

"Ok."

"But why do you got that woman over there getting ready to go out on patrol?"

"Oh, That is Miller. He is a guy. He just has a feminine body."

"Oh, I see."

socalheart

09-09-2007, 06:51 PM

(o.O) So, it's a new thing. I've never seen a female Marine with a buzz cut in the real world before. I guess that they (the ones I saw) were as about being a Marine as being feminine. I can also understand why females would want to buzz their hair while on desert duty. ...to ensure “they could tell the difference between their male and female Marines... This bit seems asinine to me. They're always talking about all the Marines looking the same and acting the same and all that stuff. That could be considered sexual discrimination. It's annoying.

DougP

09-09-2007, 07:03 PM

yeah not my type. I don't like women who look like 12 year old boys in a military school <yuck>

79Stomper

09-09-2007, 07:39 PM

My spin on the whole Buzz Cut thing.

First off I don't really see an issue with a Female Marine having one. It is their hair and they can do with it as they see fit.

As far as hygiene reasons in Iraq. Well to a certain extent. Female Marines in Theater are required to stay at the Major bases, unless they are in direct support of a mission. If they are at one of the smaller FOB's then it has to be approved by the Area Commander in writing that they can be at a smaller FOB.

Now on all of the larger bases, they live in "Cans" or small little rooms withing the base. have daily access to showers and such. Hygiene there really isn't a problem.

Smaller FOB still have access to showers. Granted it isn't daily access but enough to have a shower or two a week. Now they are not allowed to leave the FOB unless in direct support of a mission, that being a convoy driver delivering supplies out to the smaller firm bases and such. These consisting of usually a day run.

Now a female out on a patrol. Not going to happen. Why, usually 03's are the one's patrolling the streets. Female Marines are not assigned the 03 MOS. Everything else but not 03. Now usually during a PTP a unit trains together and builds the camaraderie. Knowing everyone in your platoon, squad and section or what have you. Getting a female mixed up with a male due to the haircut is highly unlikely.

TheNoNamedOne

09-10-2007, 10:06 AM

(Who's in that third pic, and why is she so danged perky? She bugs me...)

Don't know, but looks like she has a good attitude. I think she'd make a good highly motivated, hard chargin, can't get enough United States Marine.

atb35

09-10-2007, 10:26 AM

>Ch 5 1. Short Hair Length. Short hair is defined as hair length that extends no more than 1 inch from the scalp (excluding bangs). Hair may be no shorter than 1/4 inch from the scalp, but may be evenly graduated to within 2 inches of the hair line. Bangs, if worn, may not fall into the line of sight, may not interfere with the wear of all headgear, and when worn with headgear must lie neatly against the head. The width of the bangs may extend to the hairline at the temple.

That is the new regulation...it can be 1/4 inch long, that isnt short enough?

TheNoNamedOne

09-10-2007, 01:55 PM

That is the new regulation...it can be 1/4 inch long, that isnt short enough?

Well, no. 1/4 is not a buz cut or a high and tight. There is no practical reason for denying a woman marine to be able to get a traditional marine hair cut that would let others identify her as a marine in public, and one she can take pride in letting others know that she is a freakin hard chargin marine.

The sexist reason has already been given, when male officers were asked how they want WMs to look, their reply was feminine. Some women don't want to look feminine. Some are to the bone Tom Boys. And there should be nothing wrong with that or them sporting a true Devil Dog cut.

Why do the officer alpha dogs have to treat the females like their bitches?

Fonze

09-10-2007, 02:29 PM

my wife says the navy has the same rule because they want women to keep a feminine look. I personally don't mind it, does look funny though.

TheNoNamedOne

09-10-2007, 02:47 PM

my wife says the navy has the same rule because they want women to keep a feminine look. I personally don't mind it, does look funny though.

What looks funny? Women with buzz cuts and high and tights?

Looks funny on a dude, too.

Both sexes should have the right to look equally funny.

DoctorP

09-10-2007, 02:50 PM

To clarify..."buzz cuts" are supposed to be against regulation for male Marines as well! The only time a head can be clipped "to the scalp" is for medical reasons, or at boot camp. (unless the regs changed)

Now...reading what P_Chan posted, sounds as though women could have the same haircuts as men. No lower than 1/4 inch...so 1/4 inch all the way around would be pretty close to a male haircut.

TheNoNamedOne

09-10-2007, 02:56 PM

Are women marines allowed to get high and tights? Does anyone have a definitive answer on that? I don't think they are allowed, and the sexist point about male officers wanting their women to look feminine -- hence the new regs to insure that they do not copy male marines in hair cuts, is proof of that.

I took buzz cut not to mean shaved to the scalp, but those cuts done with electrick clippers, that can be seen from the examples in the OP. I always considered a buzz cut and a burr cut to be the same.

DougP

09-10-2007, 03:20 PM

Well women are allowed to grow their hair out longer than males are in the military. Does that make anymore or less sense than a woman not being allowed to have a buzzcut?

atb35

09-10-2007, 03:57 PM

1/4 inch is very short, if I let my hair grow a week, it will be close to 1/4 "...that not being good enough is just ppl wanting to bitch about something. If they said you could have it down to 1/1000th of an inch, you and whomever else would still complain, because it is a rule....

Like someone else mentioned, why cant men have long hair? Why is it that women can have facial hair and men cant? How come men cant wear earrings? Why cant men have fingernails that extend out past their fingertips, and arent able to paint them? Why cant men wear skirts or high heels?

DoctorP

09-10-2007, 04:35 PM

I took buzz cut not to mean shaved to the scalp, but those cuts done with electrick clippers, that can be seen from the examples in the OP. I always considered a buzz cut and a burr cut to be the same.

Then let me clarify more. Buzz cut is when the hair is trimmed closely to the scalp using electric clippers and giving the scalp a uniform length across the entire area. Also, shaving of ones head is not permitted.

Are women marines allowed to get high and tights? Does anyone have a definitive answer on that? I don't think they are allowed, and the sexist point about male officers wanting their women to look feminine -- hence the new regs to insure that they do not copy male marines in hair cuts, is proof of that.

Going by the way the order is written, then I suppose that one could. However, this would open them up to other types of problems...the least of which she would be butt ugly!

TheNoNamedOne

09-10-2007, 05:02 PM

Well women are allowed to grow their hair out longer than males are in the military. Does that make anymore or less sense than a woman not being allowed to have a buzzcut?

To me, no -- it doesn't. Is there a health issue involved? Is there an ability to perform one's job involved?

No one has yet given any good reasoned reason why women marines should not be allowed to have a high and tight, and I mean a closely cut high and tight like the men sport.

The only reason thus far presented, and one that fails, is based on sexism from male officers who prefer the women look feminine. Hell, why don't they just make them wear a Hellow Kitty patch or some other feminine sign in place of the Eagle Globe and Anchor on their covers? Or better yet, line their covers with lace with a soft pink hue.

P_chan

09-10-2007, 05:05 PM

Doesn't look funny as much as it looks weird on a girl. Defiantly not a sexy look, thats for sure.

TheNoNamedOne

09-10-2007, 05:13 PM

Doesn't look funny as much as it looks weird on a girl. Defiantly not a sexy look, thats for sure.

Well to each his own.

Do you think it is right that male officers make the decision about wanting them to look feminine based merely on a sexist view of preference?

P_chan

09-10-2007, 05:21 PM

No, as long as they are in regs, it's ok by me. If they want to look like a guy then it's fine by me.

ryukyuboi

09-10-2007, 05:30 PM

The US military is not an equal opportunity employer, so therefore, military members are not treated equally.

TheNoNamedOne

09-10-2007, 05:35 PM

The US military is not an equal opportunity employer, so therefore, military members are not treated equally.

That is a good answer for productivity and efficiency in MOS work and skills based on physical abilities which have limiting affects on women. However, a haircut does not impact on that.

Or do you have some data or examples that show otherwise?

Fonze

09-10-2007, 05:39 PM

Well to each his own.

Do you think it is right that male officers make the decision about wanting them to look feminine based merely on a sexist view of preference?

Thats very assumptious of you to think that a woman wasn't part of the decision.

ryukyuboi

09-10-2007, 05:57 PM

TheNoNamedOne

09-10-2007, 05:57 PM

Thats very assumptious of you to think that a woman wasn't part of the decision.

What are you talking about? I posted above a USMC PDF on it that specifically states that male officers wanted women marines to look feminine. No where in that did they state ANYTHING about women marines being in on the decision. They specifically single out male officers and what their "want" was/is on the topic matter.

TheNoNamedOne

09-10-2007, 06:00 PM

No data. No examples.

My guess is that the hair regs could be linked to a certain image the USMC would like the public to have of them, or even how the USMC sees itself in a mirror.

The GI Jane image obviously has not been embraced yet as an acceptable standard of dress and appearance.

Well, all that is obvious. Hence the debate on it, and hence an effort by male marines to nip it in the bud by regulating against it, because it seems to have gotten popular enough in Iraq amongst women marines to draw the attention of the brass to it.

atb35

09-10-2007, 07:59 PM

What are you talking about? I posted above a USMC PDF on it that specifically states that male officers wanted women marines to look feminine. No where in that did they state ANYTHING about women marines being in on the decision. They specifically single out male officers and what their "want" was/is on the topic matter.

Of course they asked Male officers, and that is what they wrote about. Did they ask any women officers or enlisted members? If they did, doubt their story would be as interesting. That is why news is retarded...it doesnt give the whole story, only the story they want you to read.....

Fonze

09-10-2007, 08:08 PM

What are you talking about? I posted above a USMC PDF on it that specifically states that male officers wanted women marines to look feminine. No where in that did they state ANYTHING about women marines being in on the decision. They specifically single out male officers and what their "want" was/is on the topic matter.

A qoute from that PDF:
"During the review process, the board received feedback from male officers who wanted women to maintain feminine hairdos"

So see TP it also doesn't SPECIFICALLY say it only recieved feedback from only male officers.
They(the reporter) specifically singled out only the males, TP don't just cut out what you want to believe MR. moderator.

TheNoNamedOne

09-10-2007, 08:14 PM

Fonze, if there would have been a reference to womens' view on it, I would have included it. It was not there. Perhaps there is some women officers feedback that was put forth on it -- I don't know, but then again just because that possibility exists and that there is no proof suggesting it does, I or anyone should base our decision on what is available.

I have looked for women feedback on the issue given to the brass for the new regulation. I haven't come across anything, and until I do it is right to assume that the male marines came up with the policy based on their sexist "want" pertaining to the issue. IF you can find something contrary to that, then I would welcome you pointing it out. Please do so.

socalheart

09-10-2007, 08:23 PM

Just a think I thunked. :) Is it possible that the Marines want to keep female Marines' hair longer to avoid possible signs of homosexuality? I'm not saying that all females with buzz cuts are homeosexuals. Based on what I've seen, many females with a shaved head in the L.A. area are homosexuals. Ripley is the only female I've seen portrayed in the movies able to pull-off the shaved head well.

DoctorP

09-10-2007, 08:34 PM

The original order (before the revision) had no such wording as to ban women from having "buzz" cuts. However, the provision for men states that "buzz" cuts, or shaving the hair to the scalp is not allowed...thus it is simple to assume that it is/was not allowed for women.

The new order states that women must not cut their hair below 1/4 inch as TP stated, but it also outlaws, mohawks, horseshoes, and teardrops for men. That still leaves a lot of leeway for the women to move about. To me, it basically just says that you can no longer buzz cut your hair if you are a woman. I really doubt that people are going to be measuring to ensure that it is longer than 1/4".

Fonze

09-10-2007, 08:42 PM

Just a thought, we are here discussing if women should be allowed to buzz cut, but is there an actual group of women marines that want to buzz cut or is TP making something out of nothing.

Not to say they shouldn't if they wanted to.

DoctorP

09-10-2007, 08:48 PM

@ Fonze...The PDF TP provided, and a few military sites mention that WM's downrange have been getting buzz cuts.

Fonze

09-10-2007, 09:05 PM

@ Fonze...The PDF TP provided, and a few military sites mention that WM's downrange have been getting buzz cuts.

sorry TP:crying: Are they getting in trouble?

atb35

09-10-2007, 09:35 PM

It is TP starting a thread to open discussion. There is no uproar from women Marines, there are no groups out there calling for equality.

I will say this....I would be my retirement pay that the 'male officers' that keep getting quoted were NOT the ones making the decision. They may have had a say in the decision, but i am willing to bet they got input from females as well. The military is so pc-a-phobic these days there is no way they would do anything to offend any sex or race.

TheNoNamedOne

09-11-2007, 12:15 AM

It is TP starting a thread to open discussion. There is no uproar from women Marines, there are no groups out there calling for equality.

Are marines allowed to ban together to form groups demanding change? I think that, too, is against regs.

Just saw a PSA on AFN talking about rights under the UCMJ or military regs saying you were allowed to write letters of complaints to leaders and members of congress, but not as a group. They had to be individual letters and not part of a miltary grass roots kind of group call for change or complaint. Perhaps that has something to do with discouraging mutinies.

And what happens when an individual questions the regs and causes an uproar? Aren't they labeled as "a bad attitude problem" and "not with the program" ???

I will say this....I would be[t] my retirement pay that the 'male officers' that keep getting quoted were NOT the ones making the decision. They may have had a say in the decision, but i am willing to bet they got input from females as well. The military is so pc-a-phobic these days there is no way they would do anything to offend any sex or race.

If they are so PC then they could have seen what you are suggesting as being a problem, so why didn't they make sure that women officers were quoted as well? Surely you can find something to support that, can't you?

I have searched and found nothing. Zero.

It is not so hard to believe that sexism is still left-over in higher echelons of the military. Hell, torture is still left-over from the past, but we still do it. We've just gotten better at being more subtle about it -- for PC purposes.

Mad Hatter

09-11-2007, 12:34 AM

How about this one... I really don't think that women should even be in the Marines. I'm not saying that a woman can't serve... just pick a different branch. It's not that woman can't carry their own weight, some can. It's all the others that make it harder for the rest. Let's face it... if a female Marine was to make enough of a fuss about this hair thing... they would get their way... that's just the way it is.

atb35

09-11-2007, 07:11 AM

If they are so PC then they could have seen what you are suggesting as being a problem, so why didn't they make sure that women officers were quoted as well? Surely you can find something to support that, can't you?

I have searched and found nothing. Zero.

It is not so hard to believe that sexism is still left-over in higher echelons of the military. Hell, torture is still left-over from the past, but we still do it. We've just gotten better at being more subtle about it -- for PC purposes.

Read my post from earlier....it wouldnt be a story if they quoted women as well....common sense.

TheNoNamedOne

09-11-2007, 08:43 AM

Read my post from earlier....it wouldnt be a story if they quoted women as well....common sense.

It appears there are no women that you assert exists which have had their say on this. Unless you can track them down. As of yet you have not. The default, therefore, is that there are none.

TheNoNamedOne

09-17-2007, 08:42 PM

Perhaps some brave woman marine reading this, if by chance we do have some women marine visitors to the forum, would take a chance and push the envelope by getting a hard chargin highly motivated oorah oorah can't get enough USMC high and tight hair cut. It could bring the matter to a head.

And it would even be greater if you could post a photo of yourself with that high and tight -- if you are willing.

P_chan

09-17-2007, 09:49 PM

I doubt any woman in the marines would want to do this. After all, they are still women and would like to look like a woman.

TheNoNamedOne

09-17-2007, 10:01 PM

Can't a woman marine look like a woman even with a high and tight?

If they can still look like women with a burr cut, I don't see why they couldn't still look like women with a traditional hard chargin motivating high and tight. Or, do only male marines rate the hard chargin signature haircut of the corps?

Why should gender for a haircut be an issue? If women marines would not want one like you suggest, then there should be no reg to prevent them from trying one out once in a while.

Why do you think there is a reg if it is not there to prevent it?

DoctorP

09-17-2007, 10:06 PM

Why should a haircut define who you are anyway? There are many male Marines that never sport a high and tight. Does that make them less of a Marine? I think not.

P_chan

09-17-2007, 10:25 PM

Because it still looks manly to have a buzz cut. Even if your the cutest girl, it's still not cute. I imagine if I was a lady, I would want to look more like a lady. Thus I wouldn't want a high and tight or buzz cut. I'm sure you can be a 'highly motivaed' female marine with any haircut.

Like Dr.P said, a haircut doesn't define who you are. That is unless you judge by what you see before you actually get to know that person? You don't do that now do you TP?:rolleyes:

Mad Hatter

09-17-2007, 10:39 PM

But everyone knows that you feel better after a good hair cut

Fonze

09-17-2007, 10:43 PM

[QUOTE=TheProsecutor;18095]
If they can still look like women with a burr cutQUOTE]

They do:ohmy: Only cause their jugs stick out and it's not very lady like looking.

TheNoNamedOne

09-17-2007, 11:09 PM

Why should a haircut define who you are anyway? There are many male Marines that never sport a high and tight. Does that make them less of a Marine? I think not.

Then we are in AGREEMENT.

A haircut is irrelevant for defining us. It should be up to choice. All marines should be able to choose from the same menu option of haircuts.

To sport a high and tight? Or not to sport a high and tight? That is the question.

DoctorP

09-17-2007, 11:12 PM

Then we are in AGREEMENT.

A haircut is irrelevant for defining us. It should be up to choice. All marines should be able to choose from the same menu option of haircuts.

To sport a high and tight? Or not to sport a high and tight? That is the question.

No we are not in agreement. You are saying that it appears as though a female is less of a Marine if she can't have a high and tight. I'm saying the opposite.

TheNoNamedOne

09-17-2007, 11:33 PM

No we are not in agreement. You are saying that it appears as though a female is less of a Marine if she can't have a high and tight. I'm saying the opposite.

Point the post out that you get that from. Quote please.

I have said that because they ARE marines that they should have the right to get the same haircut as male marines.

Women employees of P&G should get the same pay for the same ranking job as male employees of P&G because they are all employees of P&G. They are not anywhere near less of an employee of P&G because they do not get the same pay, BUT, they surely should have the right to get the same pay.

DoctorP

09-17-2007, 11:40 PM

Fonze

09-17-2007, 11:42 PM

You always try to compare something with something else not realizing everything is it's on topic or problem and should be dealt on a case by case basis.

Hold on everybody here comes another comparison. And your on.

TheNoNamedOne

09-17-2007, 11:51 PM

Enough said?

Not nearly enough on your part.

No where there have I said that the high and tight defines a marine. I said it can be a marker of identifying them and that it screams in the case of males, "I am a Marine." The experience of graduating from Boot Camp defines the Marine (enlisted).

Fonze

09-17-2007, 11:53 PM

I said it can be a marker of identifying them and that it screams in the case of males, "I am a Marine." The experience of graduating from Boot Camp defines the Marine (enlisted).

Where was this. Oh let me guess you edited it in.

DougP

09-18-2007, 02:38 PM

Some of the women in the military are bigger than most guys :D So yeah the buzz cut wouldn't help much in that aspect. Perhaps it would cut down on sexual harassment.:)

DoctorP

09-18-2007, 04:56 PM

Probably one of the biggest markers of being a marine is that traditional marine high and tight. It screams, "I AM A U.S. MARINE!" Indeed, far from bases, camps, or port cities, civilians or former marines may approach them when they are in civies and say, "You are a marine, aren't you?" and some conversation is struck up on that -- often times with former marines going into war stories for the benefit of the marine they approached.

I think marines take pride in the fact that they can stand out even in civies and nothing does that for them more than a high and tight haircut.

Why should women marines be denied that same experience? I think that if they want to get a high and tight, then they should be allowed to. There is no practical reason to deny it, is there? -- other than discriminating against them and wanting them to retain femininity.

You never outright say anything...but you allude to the idea that if a femal Marine can't have a "buzz" cut, then she isn't really a Marine. Do you deny that? You purposely left your post open for interpretation this way in order to spur discussion. Everyone can see that. What more do you want me to show you?

The One

09-20-2007, 07:47 AM

Well everyone.
This discussion is not looking at the big picture. I can't say where I am from and I have seen women Marines with buzz cuts in Iraq. You all fell to realize the time that we are in. All decisions are based off of the war experience. Now that we have been in Iraq for over 4 years. I believe that this is where the decision comes from. The regs are the regs. No shaving of heads! You can't walk five feet without seeing a Marine with a shaved head. Although it is rare but there are Female Marines with Male regulated hair cuts.
When those officer said that they wanted Female Marines to look feminine that is not bad. The bigger picture is having the enemy see them as male comnbatants. Female Marines are not doing patrols as stated earlier but they do in fact contribute greatly to our effort in the fight. Training or in combat no matter what MOS as long as I know that the Marine to my left and right has been through the same training as me. I will have there back as I know that they will have mine. Female Marines go through the same annual training as Male Marines. No matter what hair cut they have.

swindland

11-20-2007, 10:24 AM

Yesterday me and my hubby was at the hot spot waiting for our order from pizza hut. Then i pointed out at one marine to my hubby and said he needs a haircut. My hubby goes ummm honey that's not a dude, that's a WM i'm like whatever!!! and it turns out to be a female. i don't know what unit she is from but it comes close to a buzz cut. I'm surprised she hasn't got in trouble yet. just thought share that with you guys.

happily_married_1206

11-20-2007, 12:45 PM

Men arent even allowed to shave theyre heads out here... supposedly is a "FAD" a fashion statement kind of thing... i messed up my husbands hair one night before the corporals course was out and i told him well we could just shave it all off and you could be bald? he said he couldnt hed get in more trouble if he shaved it than he would for having it just a little screwed up!

hankypanky

11-20-2007, 04:47 PM

As a former Marine, we preserve democracy not practice it. Good bitchin' session but those are the rules. It would take a female commandant to change those regs. LOL:barf:

DocTurtle

11-21-2007, 08:38 AM

Yup, it's considered faddish. Men are even suppose to shave their heads certain ways due to that reason. You can have the horseshoe any more, or the screaming eagle. No more motivated duckbills :p lol.
Plus, I think most people would associate women with that kind of hair cut with dikes? (I apologize if that term is offensive to anyone in advance) I could be wrong, and I'm not saying only they have that kind of hair cut, but I think most think they do. And for that reason it kinda steps on that whole line of "Don't ask, Don't tell". If you are running around looking like Elton John and hang out a gay bars and shooting gay porno on your off time, I really don't think you have to ask?
Oh, and I have the upmost respect for Elton John, musical genious! :D

Tempestuous

11-21-2007, 10:04 AM

What about the other service members that wear high and tights?

So every high and tight a civilian sees equates to marine?
Just curious.

I have to laugh though as a female that wears their hair short
(not butched off, but at or below chin length in the front)-
On a regular basis amongst military or at functions with military I have people ask if I am active duty.

DocTurtle

11-21-2007, 12:04 PM

The high and tight I think was adopted by the marine corps in 1775...lol.
The high and tight is acceptable for males, not for females though. They just came out with a new order not too long ago stating that female hair actually has to be no short than some length. I'm not exactly sure what that is, I could look it up but I cbf :p

I actually have longer hair know that I am in the military, then I did when I was a civie. I used to always keep my hair about 1/4 to an 1/8" long before I joined.

happily_married_1206

11-21-2007, 02:32 PM

ok as far as the females go... female a.d. memebers are allowed to have short hair... only thing is that they have to wear it up and if they choose to cut it short enough to where they cant put it up, their hair CAN NOt touch their collars... correct me if im wrong.

hankypanky

11-21-2007, 03:14 PM

as i remember, it cannot go below the lower edge of the collar. Hell i've known WM's who had hair down to their ass, but kept it in a bun during working hours.

TheNoNamedOne

11-22-2007, 08:19 PM

P_chan

11-22-2007, 11:06 PM

kombu_kid

11-22-2007, 11:30 PM

I still have yet to see a practical reason divorced from prejudice or sexism as to why a woman marine should be denied to have a high and tight if she so choses.

Maybe we can work on the women's high and tight issue right after we allow them to walk down the street topless.:thumbup:

Actually, WMs can get high and tights.....they're just called "landing strips":D

drinkandrun

11-28-2007, 07:02 PM

I still have yet to see a practical reason divorced from prejudice or sexism as to why a woman marine should be denied to have a high and tight if she so choses. Just because it is a reg to not be allowed is not a practical reason. That is simply a decree.

The practical reason is that the Marine Corps presents a conservative image. This is why we have appropriate civilian attire regs, earing regs for males, and no shaved heads for the women. Anything that is faddish or eccentric is considered counter to good order and discipline. The Marine Corps is not about being a unique snowflake, it's about immediate obedience to lawful orders. Locate, close with, and destroy the enemy by fire and maneuver or support those that do. That's the deal.
If you think a woman with a high and tight or shaved head is not eccentric, name five female characters from TV (live action only) that have shaved heads. That's always a pretty good barometer for the feelings of what is acceptable as presenting a conservative image.

pandalvr2003

12-29-2007, 04:02 AM

So why cant the guys grow their hair out? Oh wait its the whole gas mask issue isnt it?

atb35

12-29-2007, 07:33 AM

I think it would be wrong if they allowed women to shave their heads, but Im not worried, its never going to change in my lifetime. Maybe its to preserve femininity....and maybe that is the reason women arent allowed on the front lines.

TheNoNamedOne

12-29-2007, 03:09 PM

So why cant the guys grow their hair out? Oh wait its the whole gas mask issue isnt it?

lol. Good point, panda! Indeed, I think I have heard that reason given before.

I guess the command doesn't mind the WM's dropping dead from a gas attack, so long as they look feminine doing so.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38215000/jpg/_38215913_israelgasafp150.jpg
Too feminine and a future casualty...

But gas this (http://vermont-archives.org/research/photos/Development/gasmask.JPG)...and this (http://static-p2.fotolia.com/photos_mini/2005-39/400_F_72129_KMsOCr12YhjsOCrWBqUeoK8efpqVfJ.jpg).

IndyGal

12-29-2007, 03:26 PM

I think I've said this before. It's a simple matter of common sense IMO. High and tights would make a woman look butch, or (pardon my french) like a dike. Honestly, how many woman (even if they are tough tom boys and in the marines) want to look like a guy?

I have seen plenty of wm's on base that you have to look two or more times to determine if they are male or female. The ones that walk around and try their best to act as though they are a man. They come complete with the large belt buckle, wallet in one back pocket and chew in the other. :ohmy:

Bones

12-29-2007, 08:07 PM

As posted by pandlvr2003:

So why cant the guys grow their hair out? Oh wait its the whole gas mask issue isnt it?

Up to a point, with military appearance, sanitary considerations, etc.....

Even with the "New Standards" in place today, the only thing that I've seen growing on older "N.C.O.'s/Officers" is their waist line. Both sexes included in this category.:army:

On the other hand, once you retire, when you really want to let your hair grow out, some of us are faced with a new reality.

The hair that used to grow on your head starts to thin out. Only to be replaced by hair growing out of your nose, or ears.:old:

NBTP

TheNoNamedOne

12-31-2007, 05:22 PM

I have seen plenty of wm's on base that you have to look two or more times to determine if they are male or female. The ones that walk around and try their best to act as though they are a man. They come complete with the large belt buckle, wallet in one back pocket and chew in the other. :ohmy:

And those are the ones who would probably get a high and tight if permitted to do so -- and wear it proudly. I see no reason to not let them do so if they are also allowed to swear, smoke, chew dip, or get tattoos...just like other marines.

Tony Stacks

01-12-2008, 08:46 PM

Well when I was in the Corps I always git the low reg.

Tony Stacks

01-12-2008, 08:55 PM

btw TP it's "Marine" not marine you always capitalize the "M", just some friendly advice.

Tony Stacks

01-15-2008, 01:23 PM

That was a great question "Why can't the guys grow their hair out?"

Or why can guys wear earings but they can?

ojedaa

08-12-2008, 12:35 PM

but they could be doing the whole women can't get the buzz cut because of other reasons.. there have been alot of sex crimes in the marine corps... they said they wanted to distinguish the difference between men and women that could be a reason.... well i don't know...

08-12-2008, 12:53 PM

lazarus, come forth!

Sex Wax

08-12-2008, 12:55 PM

http://www.clubfuji.com/Ash/thread%20necro.jpg

Isaak Brodsky

08-12-2008, 04:02 PM

bald women scare me.

bald women are seriously hot.

DougP

08-12-2008, 04:11 PM

bald women are seriously hot.

I'd imagine they'd be a whole lot cooler without all that hair trapping in heat.:first:

Old Timer

08-12-2008, 04:17 PM

I'd imagine they'd be a whole lot cooler without all that hair trapping in heat.:first:

.........and aid the dykes and bulldykers in a ready form of identification. :mir31:

jthizz

08-14-2008, 08:51 AM

wow thought this was just a popular new thread, didnt even notice the date till i skipped to the end

NewGuy08

08-25-2008, 11:07 AM

I must really be bored because I just spent the last 45 minutes reading this entire topic. I've seen a female on Foster that has pretty much a high and tight right now..... She also got punched by a guy at the Globe a few weekends ago because he probably didn't know it was a female.

Trail

08-25-2008, 11:33 AM

socalheart

11-15-2008, 12:17 PM

I was watching The Unit and another tv show the other day and thought of this thread. :p The Unit had an Army chick with a buzzcut. When I first saw her, I thought she was a man, even when she spoke. On the other tv show, the buzz cutt haired female at least had a higher pitched voice. Just sharing, so it leaves my head...

http://www.clubfuji.com/Ash/thread%20necro.jpg

-Rudel-

11-15-2008, 12:35 PM

The HQMC wants us to practice Anti-terrorism. You know keep "low key" while in foreign land.

Why not let us have longer hair like the Army or Air Force?

socalheart

11-15-2008, 12:39 PM

The HQMC wants us to practice Anti-terrorism. You know keep "low key" while in foreign land.

Why not let us have longer hair like the Army or Air Force?

There are some foreign countries that no matter how long your hair is, you're going to stand out. The Sesame Street song "One of these things is not like the others" comes to mind. Short of major plastic surgery, some of you people are going to stand out in some foreign countries.

LOL :grin1:

Jimmy Hoffa

11-15-2008, 12:44 PM

The HQMC wants us to practice Anti-terrorism. You know keep "low key" while in foreign land.

Why not let us have longer hair like the Army or Air Force?

you can. You only need 1/8 to be zero and fade up to 3 inches. aka low reg Marines get them all the time.

Spadesy

11-17-2008, 12:37 PM

^ Depends on your unit. Okinawa Marines don't seem to mind it too much, I think...when I was augmented to deploy with 1/12, the battery guns didn't like my low fade and had me go straight to the barber shop to get a higher cut, then come back and see him in the afternoon.

Never again with Hawaii units. Bunch of nazis. :rolleyes: