insults

[P_chan]

Don't forget to take your insults up with the insult committee. If the committee doesn't find what someone said about you offensive, even if you took offense, then too bad they can keep on insulting you.

:Warning: If your insults stems from a debate with TP, don't bother reporting it, your wrong. TP is never wrong.

I see another forum dictatorship in the making.:thumbdown:

[dk]

I thought dictatorships were run by a dictator? Am I that dictator? And hell, most web forums ARE a dictatorship. Get used to it. The only democracy here is between me, TP, and DoctorP.

We listen to all of your comments, but at the end of the day, I make the call. So if you guys have any issues with this forum, you have issues with me. You're more than welcome to use the other Okinawan forum if it's that big of an issue.

All forums have drama.

Post the insult here and I'll look into it.

[P_chan]

I know most forums are dictatorships, it's sad really. I thought this one would be different once I first joined, but now I'm starting to think otherwise. Just kinda confusing how a staff member, who is supposed to be setting the example, can insult other members and get away with it.

Just don't forget that the staff members might have the last say in things, but the forum members make the forum.

[dk]

Like I said, show me where he's making a personal attack.

So far, I see a bunch of people who don't like TP failing at arguements with TP.

The only thing TP is "supposed" to be doing is helping me moderate posts. That's his and DocP's job here. Aside from that, they are free members just as the rest of you are and are granted all priveleges you guys have.

Show me a personal attack and if I see it as a personal attack I will take action. I am a pretty neutral guy, as I've already shown. If you actually have a case, post it here.

Another thing: we don't even have a rule against insults. We have a rule against making personal attacks. There's a difference between me saying "that's retarded..." and saying, "good grief you're slow...".

I don't even want to be too strict about insults. They happen on the real world, and they happen on the web. There's a certain amount of thick skin ANYONE who registers with a forum should have. People need to be able to hold their own in a discussion and/or arguement.

[DougP]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/DougGTR32/cry_me_a_river.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/DougGTR32/WB-PVM03015.jpg

[P_chan]

I did show you a personal attack. I showed you what he said I that I considered it insulting and an attack at me. Just because you don't think it's a personal attack doesn't mean that I don't.

Your right I don't like TP, but I never said I don't like him because I lose in arguments to him. Hell their is no winning an argument with someone who thinks their views on a subject are absolute law. No one loses in a debate if you ask me. Just because he, or anyone for that matter, shows some articles supporting his argument doesn't mean he won it in any sense.

[dk]

Where? Where? Post it in here. I don't have time to scour the website looking for this individual post. Copy and past it in here or at least provide me the specific link.

Just because you don't think it's a personal attack doesn't mean that I don't.
Oh sorry, thought I was the admin for a second...

Just because he, or anyone for that matter, shows some articles supporting his argument doesn't mean he won it in any sense.
I doubt he's even expecting to win. All he's trying to accomplish is bringing up discussion--which he's done far better on a TON of topics than most people on this forum.

[P_chan]

Wait a second, so your saying that because your admin you can decide what I find offensive and what I don't find offensive? Wow when did I move to crazy town.

This is what I said once I entered the forum. Trying to keep a humorous demonor to try and lighten everyone's spirits. Mind you I've said "someone call the waaahbumalnce" before to different people, not just to tp. This time I was addressing everyone who was bickering.
Wow I missed a lot today huh?

Somebody call the 'wahhhhmbulance'!

TP then said this.

BINGO!

The boy with anger problems and the innitial whiner pops in! Whaaaa!

Go answer the questions still waiting for you. What, you gonna PM me again about calling you out again. Whaaaaaa. Deal with it. LMFAO!
Slightly rude but nothing major, kinda surprised he would instigate like a 12 year old. Once again, harassing others to go answer unanswered questions.

Then TP said this to me, which is what I considered offensive.

Do you have some kind of attention deficit problem, or reading problem? How many times have I told you that it doesn't matter of you convince the other party because that is not the sole purpose of debate. It is also, and mostly when there is an audience, to affect the audience. I could care less if you or the one I am debating it sees it my way or not.

Now, why do you need people to repeat things to you? Should I type slower for you so you can get it all digestedd?

I knew what he was getting at and he was using question marks and putting it in the form of a question to try and cover his own arse. He's basically telling me I have reading problem, which I found offensive. I told him to stop and he still kept pressing on and instigating.

I reported it and I believe I PMed you but nothing was ever said to me on the subject. Just TP saying that you said it was ok so he had a field day with it. Now if I would have went off and called him an asshole or retard, I would have been told that personal insults are not allowed. If I would have came back with "Are you some type of asshole retarded person?" would that have been ok since I was being vague and beating around the bush? Even though everyone could obviously see what I was getting at?

I highly encourage others to let me know what they think of this? Am I just over reacting or is it more then that? The only reason I still bring it up is because I believe I was never giving a just answer to this.

[Muku]

I agree that on a web forum people need to have a thick skin regarding what they post and how other people view those comments.

However this forum and any other for that matter is most defintely not like real world in the real world if people made insinuations or comments similar to some that I have seen here there would either be a lawsuit or people throwing down and getting into it seriously.

In real life there manners that are expected and counted on in society, that do not exist on a web forum. How dk chooses to administer this board is of course his choice, and myself and others make the choice on whether or not we choose to participate here.

Yet members not the administration are what make a web forum, a community if you wish and depending on what type of community this forum chooses to create is at the discretion of the admin.

If they want a bunch of thugs or create an atmosphere where people are free to attack, insults are a form of attacking a person, like that or not that is a fact, then that is dk's choice. I am not going to insult anyones intelligence here and write the definition of what they are because I assume that everyone knows what they are.

This board has high potential to be a valuable tool for many people coming here to Okinawa, yet it also walks a fine line in having an extremely high turnover rate, as newcomers here will not feel welcome and leave. That is of course each individuals choice as well. It will not grow beyond that in it's current state unless in my experienced opinion leashes are used to hold everyone's comments in place. There are ways to use English to be more subtle. Being polite is not that hard.

This may very well be a dictatorship, yet it is up to the admin to decide if he wants it to be a dictatorship with 3 members, himself and 2 mods, or does he want people to feel welcome to come and join and feel a part of a community.

What type of community do you want here. that to me is the question. Do you want a police state or a benevolent dictatorship that allows all members to feel comfortable enough to say what is on their minds without fear of insults or attack?

[dk]

Do you have some kind of attention deficit problem, or reading problem? How many times have I told you that it doesn't matter of you convince the other party because that is not the sole purpose of debate. It is also, and mostly when there is an audience, to affect the audience. I could care less if you or the one I am debating it sees it my way or not.

This is a perfectly valid question. I myself remember asking a person if they had a reading comprehension problem due to them just not getting it. Re-read that quote. He had every right to question your reading problem if he's had to explain himself more than once... If I did the same thing, I'd expect people to react to me in the same way. Kind of like "Dude, are you deaf? Did you not hear what I told you last time this issue came up?"

Now, why do you need people to repeat things to you? Should I type slower for you so you can get it all digested?
Valid questions. You said yourself that your friends know you for being direct, cutting the crap, and saying it like it is. I see TP doing the same thing, and his frustration is easily visible.

[Muku]

This is a perfectly valid question. I myself remember asking a person if they had a reading comprehension problem due to them just not getting it. Re-read that quote. He had every right to question your reading problem if he's had to explain himself more than once... If I did the same thing, I'd expect people to react to me in the same way. Kind of like "Dude, are you deaf? Did you not hear what I told you last time this issue came up?"


Valid questions. You said yourself that your friends know you for being direct, cutting the crap, and saying it like it is. I see TP doing the same thing, and his frustration is easily visible.

dk I am sure you know that if I came up to you and asked you to your face I think it would be safe to assume that you wouldnt appreciate it.

There are better ways to say it, and I am sure that TP "knows" that as well. He could of asked the very same question something like this;

"Is it possible that you misunderstood what I wrote" or something similar. I doubt anyone would feel insulted, attacked or offended if it was asked in this manner.

To ask something like this in this manner is instigating an argument, particularly on a web forum.

TP has an excellent handle on the English language, and I am sure that he knew damn well that what he wrote was going to anger or inflame PChan. I know I would be a bit ticked off as well.:)

Many times his statements often come across as being very arrogant and anal retentive. He could use his mastery of the English language to tone down the rhetoric, not everyone reads between the lines on a forum. This is of course my opinion here.

[dk]

I agree that on a web forum people need to have a thick skin regarding what they post and how other people view those comments.

However this forum and any other for that matter is most defintely not like real world in the real world if people made insinuations or comments similar to some that I have seen here there would either be a lawsuit or people throwing down and getting into it seriously.
Which thread/post would be cause for a lawsuit? Seriously? It's been pretty polite in here aside from a few hot topics.

In real life there manners that are expected and counted on in society, that do not exist on a web forum. How dk chooses to administer this board is of course his choice, and myself and others make the choice on whether or not we choose to participate here.
I'm just doing the best the way I see fit. You are all welcome to question the way I do my job, but every decision I make is thought through before I've made my choice. You're all free to critique my work here, and lucky for everybody, I actually DO take heed to what people say, but I know by now that there is no pleasing everybody. So, I do the best I can with what I have, and I make the best decisions I can.

Yet members not the administration are what make a web forum, a community if you wish and depending on what type of community this forum chooses to create is at the discretion of the admin.

If they want a bunch of thugs or create an atmosphere where people are free to attack, insults are a form of attacking a person, like that or not that is a fact, then that is dk's choice. I am not going to insult anyones intelligence here and write the definition of what they are because I assume that everyone knows what they are.
We're all in this thing together--admin, mods, and members. We're all members. Just some of us have extra jobs. None of you make this forum more than any of the admin/mod team. We're a small group, and as of right now, we're all on the same boat.

This board has high potential to be a valuable tool for many people coming here to Okinawa, yet it also walks a fine line in having an extremely high turnover rate, as newcomers here will not feel welcome and leave. That is of course each individuals choice as well. It will not grow beyond that in it's current state unless in my experienced opinion leashes are used to hold everyone's comments in place. There are ways to use English to be more subtle. Being polite is not that hard.

It's already been growing at a great rate. We're picking up new active members all the time, and some of them have been great high quality members, including yourself. I believe people do feel welcome. We do not have to all get along. We do all have to be able to live (on this forum at least) together. That's all I ask. That we can all co-exist.

Being polite is not that hard. I agree. I choose to set my boundaries (in the rules) and leave things pretty flexible. I leave it to the members to proove their worth, and I leave it to the members to decide if they want to interact with this member or not.

This may very well be a dictatorship, yet it is up to the admin to decide if he wants it to be a dictatorship with 3 members, himself and 2 mods, or does he want people to feel welcome to come and join and feel a part of a community.
This is a dictatorship as far as the rules are concerned. Unlike most dictatorships, you are more than welcome to add your input (as you have done here), but at the end of the day, I will be the one to decide what the final action will be. As of now, I see no reason to change my tactics.

What type of community do you want here. that to me is the question. Do you want a police state or a benevolent dictatorship that allows all members to feel comfortable enough to say what is on their minds without fear of insults or attack?
I want a free community. I want people to be able to log in and say they had a great time at <insert scenic spot>. I want people to be able to say that <insert internet provider> has terrible customer support. I want people to be able to say that they think <insert forum member> is full of himself. I want people to be themself, and I don't want to control people to the full extent of my capabilities. I do not want to turn this into the carebear fanclub. I want you all to take responsibility for your actions and to earn your own reputations.

Aside from that, follow the rules. That's all I ask. And if you are having trouble with an interpretation of my rules, hit me up with a PM or post here, and if I feel that it's actually a valid complaint, I will consider making changes.

You sent me a mile long PM and I will eventually get to it. My inbox as of this afternoon was 98% full (with a 200 message limit) so I'm sure you can appreciate it takes time for me to get to some user input.

[P_chan]

Sorry but I don't see how those are valid questions. The context in which he was saying them was meant to be insulting. He was just conveniently keeping himself safe, which makes it worse IMO. It's also very cowardly and childish for someone to act like that IMO.

However I will continue to use this forum. I enjoy it here. But now once someone starts up on a certain topic, I might be reluctant to add my 2 cents because I don't want to deal with BS like this. Which, if a lot of users do this, makes the conversation very one sided and bland.

[dk]

dk I am sure you know that if I came up to you and asked you to your face I think it would be safe to assume that you wouldnt appreciate it.

There are better ways to say it, and I am sure that TP "knows" that as well. He could of asked the very same question something like this;

"Is it possible that you misunderstood what I wrote" or something similar. I doubt anyone would feel insulted, attacked or offended if it was asked in this manner.

To ask something like this in this manner is instigating an argument, particularly on a web forum.
I know, TP could have said it nicer, but he didn't break any rules. If my memory is correct, TP was being attacked pretty fiercely to put him into that mood. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I know of TP, and I've known him for a few years, he's not one to lash out unless it's deserved. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't remember the whole situation.

TP has an excellent handle on the English language, and I am sure that he knew damn well that what he wrote was going to anger or inflame PChan. I know I would be a bit ticked off as well.:)

Many times his statements often come across as being very arrogant and anal retentive. He could use his mastery of the English language to tone down the rhetoric, not everyone reads between the lines on a forum. This is of course my opinion here.
See, a lot of people (p_chan included) have told TP he's arrogant. How is that not an attack? Or an insult? One thing my mother always told me when I was a kid: people often mistake cockyness for confidence. I think a lot of that comes into play here as well. He's confident in his stance. Otherwise he wouldn't even bring up his side. How does that make him arrogant?

He's a pain in the neck sometimes, I know. But so are some of you (and positively so am I sometimes), but I'm sure we can all co-exist on these forums just fine.

[DoctorP]

P Chan...have you never said to a friend or coworker, or lower ranking military personell "are you stupid?", "do you have cauliflower growing in your ears?", "did you ride the short bus?", or any other term frequently used by enlisted military while joking around? If you say no, haven't you been around others that said those things jokingly?

I see us as a community here. There is sarcasm used everyday, and people take it fine...why all of the fuss now?

[Muku]

Which thread/post would be cause for a lawsuit? Seriously? It's been pretty polite in here aside from a few hot topics.

Nothing in particular at the moment some where borderline and mostly that statment was meant figuratively and not literally.

Thank you for your input.:)

[P_chan]

P Chan...have you never said to a friend or coworker, or lower ranking military personell "are you stupid?", "do you have cauliflower growing in your ears?", "did you ride the short bus?", or any other term frequently used by enlisted military while joking around? If you say no, haven't you been around others that said those things jokingly?

I see us as a community here. There is sarcasm used everyday, and people take it fine...why all of the fuss now?

because that wasn't sarcasm he was using. Also if I call my coworker a illiterate retard and he/she asks me to stop, I get in trouble if I don't.

[dk]

Sorry but I don't see how those are valid questions. The context in which he was saying them was meant to be insulting. He was just conveniently keeping himself safe, which makes it worse IMO. It's also very cowardly and childish for someone to act like that IMO.
Well, we can agree to disagree. Could TP have been nicer? Yeah. Positively. But he's human, and it looks like you may have caught him in a pissy mood.

It's very likely at least a few of you will catch me in pissy moods as well from time to time, and I expect I'll catch a few of you on ugly moments as well.

However I will continue to use this forum. I enjoy it here. But now once someone starts up on a certain topic, I might be reluctant to add my 2 cents because I don't want to deal with BS like this. Which, if a lot of users do this, makes the conversation very one sided and bland.
I'm glad you enjoy it here. I think all of us do. If you feel threatened, that's something you have to deal with. There are a few topics I haven't put my say into for one reason or another. But we all decide what we want and don't want to do.

[dk]

Nothing in particular at the moment some where borderline and mostly that statment was meant figuratively and not literally.

Thank you for your input.:)
Anytime man. I'm all ears. :)

[P_chan]

Thank you for actually listening to my bitching. Thats all I really wanted, I just felt like it was never really resolved.

[DoctorP]

because that wasn't sarcasm he was using. Also if I call my coworker a illiterate retard and he/she asks me to stop, I get in trouble if I don't.

Who are you to say if it was or wasn't? And I guess by your answer you are saying you do the same things in casual conversation with others right? Nothing more than that has happened here.:D

[dk]

Thank you for actually listening to my bitching. Thats all I really wanted, I just felt like it was never really resolved.
No problem. I've exploded at my wife on occasion for the same reason lol...

[Muku]

See, a lot of people (p_chan included) have told TP he's arrogant. How is that not an attack? Or an insult? One thing my mother always told me when I was a kid: people often mistake cockyness for confidence. I think a lot of that comes into play here as well. He's confident in his stance. Otherwise he wouldn't even bring up his side. How does that make him arrogant?

He's a pain in the neck sometimes, I know. But so are some of you (and positively so am I sometimes), but I'm sure we can all co-exist on these forums just fine.



Btw I didnt call him either arrogant or anal. If I had then I would admit that it was an insult and should be either deleted or modified.

It helps to clear the air, and I should say that with any venture there are growing pains as well.

IMHO I think you are doing a great job, while I may not agree with all of what you write here, not just here but on other threads as well, I still respect your opinions and thoughts.

That to me is something that might be considered for the forum rules btw.
"Showing respect for peoples thoughts, opinions and ideas. Insults or personal attacks will not be tolerated." Emphasis on the respect.:)

[dk]

Thanks man. And I'll consider appending the rules if we don't already have something like this in the rules.

[DoctorP]

Btw I didnt call him either arrogant or anal. If I had then I would admit that it was an insult and should be either deleted or modified.



I don't view either as an insult. Anal is just an attitude to me...I've known many anal people during my life!

[TheNoNamedOne]

That to me is something that might be considered for the forum rules btw.

"Showing respect for peoples thoughts, opinions and ideas. Insults or personal attacks will not be tolerated." Emphasis on the respect

Do you have any idea how wide that could be interpreted? What if someone wants you just to respect my wanting to compare slavery to animal exploitation? You didn't show much respect by dismissing it. I don't mind how you answered me on that topic, the point is that if dk were take what you wrote there and make that a rule, there would be an explosion of violations.

Why should anyone respect the ideas of genital mutilation? I don't think that is an idea or thought worthy of respect. However, what is worthy and deserving of respect is the RIGHT to put those ideas across. And that is what I think rule #1 covers. It is the right to express ideas that should be respected -- the ideas themselves do not need to be respected.

That said, personal insults such as "because you believe in genital mutilation you are a crap of human being." Now that is a personal insult.

Notice the difference, and it is an important difference, of what I said between respecting the right versus respecting the idea. Big difference with huge implications in moderating and rule violation.

[Fonze]

P chan I think when TP insults u or types stuff like that at u consider it a win.

[Muku]

Do you have any idea how wide that could be interpreted? What if someone wants you just to respect my wanting to compare slavery to animal exploitation? You didn't show much respect by dismissing it. I don't mind how you answered me on that topic, the point is that if dk were take what you wrote there and make that a rule, there would be an explosion of violations.

Why should anyone respect the ideas of genital mutilation? I don't think that is an idea or thought worthy of respect. However, what is worthy and deserving of respect is the RIGHT to put those ideas across. And that is what I think rule #1 covers. It is the right to express ideas that should be respected -- the ideas themselves do not need to be respected.

That said, personal insults such as "because you believe in genital mutilation you are a crap of human being." Now that is a personal insult.

Notice the difference, and it is an important difference, of what I said between respecting the right versus respecting the idea. Big difference with huge implications in moderating and rule violation.

However wide open it may be, it still tells people that respect shall be expected here on this forum.

Other than you I can not see the situation arising that someone is going to be talking about genital mutilation on a forum dealing with Japan. Whether you use that as an example or not. And I am sure there are people in the world that view it a whole hell of a lot differently than you do, and they have that right as well.

If I came here and wrote, hell I believe in what Osama Bin Laden is doing as well. If I wrote my opinions and thoughts, people may not respect them, but at least I would not have to fear being attacked or insulted.

We could go on all day trading examples back and forth which would be meaningless. DK understood my point very well, and I will leave it up to his capabale hands.

Plus I dont think dk envisions micromanagment either, you cant cover every forseeable situation, and having a coverall rule that everyone top to bottom has to follow makes plenty of sense.

I know it can be done, I am speaking from experience here.

Where there is a will there is a way.:)

[DougP]

That to me is something that might be considered for the forum rules btw.
"Showing respect for peoples thoughts, opinions and ideas. Insults or personal attacks will not be tolerated." Emphasis on the respect.:)


I think a better rule would be:

"Grow some thick skin. You are about to enter the world of the internet. You may find some comments offensive but please realize they cannot do you any real harm. If you can't take the heat get out of the digital kitchen."

[TheNoNamedOne]

However wide open it may be, it still tells people that respect shall be expected here on this forum.

It would be so wide open that it would lead to so many charges of inconsistencies.

Other than you I can not see the situation arising that someone is going to be talking about genital mutilation on a forum dealing with Japan. Whether you use that as an example or not.

Yes, I could use that as an example in any one of many talking points, or slavery, or rape, or the Halocaust. You on the other hand resort to mere indignance -- a very lazy style of debating. And someone in the future who joins up to become a member may as well want to discuss those or use them.. As far as controversial subjects are concerned, I am sure I am not going to be the only one using controversial examples to make my point as the forum grows. We are not stagnant and stuck with the membership we have now, you know.

And if you did not notice, the forum is much bigger than just subjects about Japan. Look at the menu. It welcomes a wide range of topic areas to discuss on. Your point in red is off base not only in topic, but scope of topic as well.

And I am sure there are people in the world that view it a whole hell of a lot differently than you do, and they have that right as well.

EXACTLY! THAT IS MY WHOLE POINT! Where have I said no one had the RIGHT to discuss anything they wished? On the contrary, my previous post clearly speaks of the right to speak what one wishes to discuss and the need to respect that RIGHT. The idea or thought of what is being put forth however does not need to be respected. I would never respect the idea of genocide as a means to solve a problem, but I am willing to respect the right of at least some person to put it forth so that it stays out in the open so it can be exposed for its falsity.

If I came here and wrote, hell I believe in what Osama Bin Laden is doing as well. If I wrote my opinions and thoughts, people may not respect them, but at least I would not have to fear being attacked or insulted.

You have not been attacked. And if you view your ideas and opinions being attacked in debate as a personal attack, then you do not know the difference between attacking the message versus attacking the messenger. The line between the two is not so fine. It is a rather bold line! and it is only the fair hearted that confuses the two.

We could go on all day trading examples back and forth which would be meaningless. DK understood my point very well, and I will leave it up to his capabale hands.

Not meaningless at all.

Plus I dont think dk envisions micromanagment either, you cant cover every forseeable situation, and having a coverall rule that everyone top to bottom has to follow makes plenty of sense.

What are you talking about!? That is exactly what you are suggesting with the rule you put forth above. dk told me to at least murder one chicken! Oh my! I am insulted that he dared to say such thing to me knowing I am a vegetarian and into animal rights!!! Surely a pro-lifer would be insulted if I said, "C'mon, Mary, get knocked up and at least stick a plunger in there to abort one time pulling it out in little pulpy pieces!" Why should her sensibilities be respected more than mine? After all, P-chan has said it depends on the perception of the one being insulted. Hey, what about P_chan's siggy? Oh, eating three animals for every one I don't eat. It offends me!

Well, not really, but I could make the case that it does if we went by yours and P_chan's carebare feelings. And dk out of respect for consistency would be put in an awkward position of having to be arbitrary in judgement on that. I think he would want a little better guiding post than just that.

Respect for the right to post with no personal attacks (or even insults) is all that is needed, and attacks and insults are defined by directing it at a person. And that does not include enquiring about if they have brocali in their ears or eyes, to use an example similar to what DrP put forth.

[Muku]

All I am going to say in reply is this, you have a rather bad habit of twisting what people write around into something totally other than how it was written in the context of the original post.

I am not just refering to this thread but numerous others as well.:thumbdown:

Do not assume to know what or how I am thinking about a topic and do us all a favor and stop putting words into my mouth, thank you very much.

[TheNoNamedOne]

What have I twisted and what words have I put in your mouth? Quote please and explain how I did so.

Assertions are easy. Please back them up. Thank you in advance.

[Muku]

What have I twisted and what words have I put in your mouth? Quote please and explain how I did so.

Assertions are easy. Please back them up. Thank you in advance.
To practicce what I preach about showing respect for other members here I am responding to you even after I had no intention of doing so.

I will answer by saying this just take a closer look at your responses, I think you are intelligent enough to pick out what I am refering to.

These are not assertions they are facts. You come across as a rather smart, if not opinionated person, you should have no problem finding them if you step back and look objectively.:D

Your welcome in advance:)

[TheNoNamedOne]

I will answer by saying this just take a closer look at your responses, I think you are intelligent enough to pick out what I am refering to.

These are not assertions they are facts. You come across as a rather smart, if not opinionated person, you should have no problem finding them if you step back and look objectively.

Well, I have read the posts several times prior already, and I don't see what words of yours I have twisted or what words I have put in your mouth. That is what the quote feature is for -- to conveniently laser in on what people have written to point out something you would like them to take notice of.

Please consider using it so I can accurately address your assertions on this.

[Muku]

Well, I have read the posts several times prior already, and I don't see what words of yours I have twisted or what words I have put in your mouth. That is what the quote feature is for -- to conveniently laser in on what people have written to point out something you would like them to take notice of.

Please consider using it so I can accurately address your assertions on this.
Trying to infer that I dont know how to use the quote function.....another one of those things that make me go Ummmm.:rolleyes:

You haven't been objective, and on that I can not assist you. I am not going to go back through your copious number of posts to point out every time you did it.

Just be comfortable in knowing that they are there, call it being lazy on my part or whatever, but they are there and that's enough.

I've had enough of this thread for tonight:dead::D

[DougP]

Man by the way you two are at each other's throats I'd swear you both spent some time at the "Bad News Kennels" :)

[TheNoNamedOne]

Man by the way you two are at each other's throats I'd swear you both spent some time at the "Bad News Kennels" :)

I am not at his throat. I am simply asking him to back up what he has asserted. To me I have been dealing with the slippery fish syndrom here.

[Boost]

Maybe it is time to turn these forums into a democracy! Set up a poll asking if TP should remain a mod or be made a regular member, and allow the active users to vote on it.

At the very least it could provide a platform for the forum users to voice what they think without them having to actually engage in a written match with the forum leadership.

[TheNoNamedOne]

You haven't been objective, and on that I can not assist you. I am not going to go back through your copious number of posts to point out every time you did it.

<sigh>

You don't have to point out every time I did so. 3 or 4 would be quite fine. Where have I not been objective -- at least to some large degree where I am abusing my mod position or violating rules?

Since you feel that it is a serious problem with me, then it should be quite easy without much search effort to find them.

Or are you just speaking figuratively and not factualy? I am not asking that question sarcastically. I really want to know, since you have already backpedaled to dk on your assertion that threads were grounds for lawsuits or some other kind of libal or slander, and instead a few posts later claimed it was stated figuratively.

I am wondering if you are doing the same now. If not, then I give you the same challenge dk had previously given you: WHERE?

[okinawapaul]

<sigh>

You don't have to point out every time I did so. 3 or 4 would be quite fine. Where have I not been objective -- at least to some large degree where I am abusing my mod position or violating rules?


Sorry to jump in the middle here, but I have been reading all of this needless drama today from all of you, and I am just wondering if this statement from you admits that you have indeed committed these transgressions? I mean the way I read this is that you have done it repeatedly and that you want him to only post 3 or 4 of them.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Sorry to jump in the middle here, but I have been reading all of this needless drama today from all of you, and I am just wondering if this statement from you admits that you have indeed committed these transgressions? I mean the way I read this is that you have done it repeatedly and that you want him to only post 3 or 4 of them.

No, just as dk issued the challenge to Uchinamuku and P_chan when they claimed things that they felt were here and there throughout the forum because he did not see them, I, too, have asked them to come forth and point them out. Again: WHERE?

[Muku]

Seeing as how TP will not go to sleep until I "prove" something here for the sake of peace and quiet amongst everyone here let me see what I can come up with on such short notice:rolleyes:

First...from the following thread, oh I am only going to put a few up here from today only and let everyone else here be the judge, and as a side comment I do not see you TP as being a fair or biased judge in this matter.

Animal blood sports thread (http://www.japanupdate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=506&page=3)

I reference this individual post;
Post 101 (http://www.japanupdate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=506&page=3)

TP wrote and I quote here;
Quote:
I am all for sending a message that celebrities will not escape jail time (like you have suggest) such as what we have seen with Paris Hilton


I replied; What? When did I suggest that?

Taken from Post 103 (http://www.japanupdate.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12971&postcount=103)

He is refering to of course the statement I made where I wrote;
To me I would say suspend the jail time, give him 5 years probation, community service and a stiff fine. That's for the legal arena.

Which for those not following along was in reply to a post made by P Chan. I was giving an opinion on what I thought his sentence should be, nothing more nothing less. I also refer to my comments about the personal lose of income that Michael Vick has had happen to him because of this incident.

TP replies first with this comment;
I am all for sending a message that celebrities will not escape jail time (like you have suggest) such as what we have seen with Paris Hilton
I never suggested anywhere that Michael Vick escape, jail time, and I made no reference or inference either to Paris Hilton, heaven forbid:rolleyes:

Suspended time is not the same as escaping from jail. Different topic here but just ask the teacher from Dodds about that one. Suspended means that if he breaks the rules of his probation during that time period he will have to serve the sentence handed down. I didnt think it was necessary to explain:rolleyes:.

This is one example of TP, from my perspective putting words into my mouth and instead of asking for clarification making an assumption based on what his beliefs in this matter are.

I refer back to my opening statment on this reply;
oh I am only going to put a few up here from today only and let everyone else here be the judge,

I take this back, this is so asinine, I know what I wrote and if anyone wants to go through all of TP's posts to retrieve the information that I am refering to go for it. That goes for you too TP...Good lord I can not believe I just wrote all this guano down here just to "prove" a stupid point.

If you want more, they are there go find them. I feel so "dirty" and "abused":-|:eek::rolleyes: at being so guillible in replying to this.:cursing::barf:

Oh and I would be willing to make a bet that the majority of regular members here that have had to deal with attempting to carry on a discussion with you will fully understand wtf I have been talking about here.

Think about that one for a moment too would you TP.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Uchinamuku, my post above in the ones you have been trying to prove that I twist or put words in your mouth are quite objective. "Suspend" does not mean "to serve" and that would allow one to escape "jail time." Simple.

However, I don't see how any of that is related to moderating on my part. What? Is your gripe with me as a member, or as a moderator?

I, too, would bet that the majority of the people will agree with you about discussion/debate with me. I am not shy about entering controversial debates and starting them myself. I hold many progressive views on things and debate hard for those. Nothing shocking about that by now I have rankeled more than a few feathers in debate.

Appeal to the majority is fallacy and proves nothing or makes no point you think you are making -- other than perhaps that the majority do not like me. However -- my status as member or moderator is not based on the majority opinion.

Look at the rules -- "I do not like him" does not qualify as breaking a rule.

Even though you failed desparately to prove it, there also is no rule that, "member X is not consistant or twists my words and opinions."

Remember everyone here is not the judge in this mob you are trying to incite. However, I do expect you will be getting some "thumbs up" thanks out of it.

[Muku]

Want another case in point look at your reply. Hmmmm:rolleyes:

This is so wrong on so many different levels that is boggles the mind. You infer and assume so much in the space of a few lines.

I 've made my points, you can throw up as many walls of text as you want, people here can make thier own decisions, no matter what you say, or how deep you choose to bury us in nightshade.

Ever hear this line; fighting for peace is like f*****g for virginity

I am done fighting with you, and dont even attempt to make the inference or assumption that I want to f*** you either, you aint my type.:eek:

[TheNoNamedOne]

Whoa! Don't see how I could make that inference, Uchi.

But sure is a colorful metaphore you have treated us to.

lol. Thanks.

[dk]

Maybe it is time to turn these forums into a democracy! Set up a poll asking if TP should remain a mod or be made a regular member, and allow the active users to vote on it.

At the very least it could provide a platform for the forum users to voice what they think without them having to actually engage in a written match with the forum leadership.
Sorry, as I said, the only democracy on this forum is DrP, TP, and myself. I've chosen these two to assist me, and that's that. If I decide to fire one, it'll be my decision and not up for public debate.

[Boost]

Sorry, as I said, the only democracy on this forum is DrP, TP, and myself. I've chosen these two to assist me, and that's that. If I decide to fire one, it'll be my decision and not up for public debate.

Well it was an idea anyways. I understand your decisions are just that, but thought this might be away to end the debate once and for all and allow the forum users to have some voice in the way the forum is managed.

I also understand you want to stand behind those you have chosen to be mod's but remember not to do that at the expense of the members. I think the ones who have stuck it out and continue to be an active, participating member of this forum should be afforded some voice on this matter then just being told "to bad, so sad."

[dk]

I will stick by my mods before my members. That's like a kid telling a parent to not stand by his spouse at the cost of dissapointing the children... I chose them, and I will not allow a rift to be created just because a few of our members doubt my judgement in choosing TP. I chose him, and I'm sticking with that choice.

As far as I'm concerned, he's done a hell of a job. You all don't see everything that goes on behind the scenes, but TP has helped get these forums to where they are today than MORE THAN ANY SINGLE MEMBER.

I will positively stand by my choice in moderators at the expense of members if it comes down to it. Absolutely positively. I'd be stupid not to.

I've already given you long-timers a voice. Several of you have expressed your irritation to me very clearly by PM. However, I've made my choice, and you can either respect that or you can decide that my choice is unbearable and leave. I'd hate to see that happen, but I'm seriously not backing down from this.

[Boost]

Fair enough...

TP has helped get these forums to where they are today than MORE THAN ANY SINGLE MEMBER.



Were we given the chance? You can't hold something against someone because they did not have to opportunity too.

[Boost]

On a lighter note, I think dk has become the president Bush of the forum. Stays the course regardless of public (forum) opinion. :D

[Muku]

I will stick by my mods before my members. That's like a kid telling a parent to not stand by his spouse at the cost of dissapointing the children... I chose them, and I will not allow a rift to be created just because a few of our members doubt my judgement in choosing TP. I chose him, and I'm sticking with that choice.

First before I start here I think I made myself very clear to you on this subject earlier in this thread.:) This is regarding what or how you think about the board and where it's going, what direction you want it to take etc etc etc.

Even kids get emacipated from thier parents sometimes, and I am 100% sure you have heard of divorce as well. I understand what you are trying to say here but I have a quick question for you;

Are you TP's dad too? :rolleyes: :D :eek:

Standing by someone is admirable, and I am begining to think that you are using TP and his divisiveness to help grow the board. This is of course my opinion, he brings out so many emotions and draws the ire of so many different people he attracts people to his commentary, like hyenas to the kill. If that's the case then I must give credit where credit is due.

Hopefully TP will read between the lines of all the people that are posting on these threads and he will reconsider whether or not he is suited to the position he holds here on this forum and take the decision out of your hands, instead of being the focus of and causing all of this trouble for you. I do not envy the position that you are in. Being constantly reminded of, questioning or having to justify a decision that you made.

I apologize to you for giving you some grey hair.:ohmy:

It is plainly obvious to everyone your loyalty to TP. :first:

[P_chan]

No, just as dk issued the challenge to Uchinamuku and P_chan when they claimed things that they felt were here and there throughout the forum because he did not see them, I, too, have asked them to come forth and point them out. Again: WHERE?

Don't even ask to see what my problem was, I already pointed it out.

[Muku]

....MORE THAN ANY SINGLE MEMBER.

I'm sorry I thought I this was the http://www.exitmundi.nl/borgkubus.jpg I was joining. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[TheNoNamedOne]

Whoa! The size of that image! Took forever to come through. Caused me to have to stretch the browser window, too, because it threw off the dimensions of the text windows.

Perhaps some discernment and self control on image size should be used.

[Asshat]

We all know TP's jackbooted E thug techniques. :) We all know most of us have various adgendas in life and on the boards.

In the end, this board is owned and operated by JU. As such, they (their moderators) have the responsibility to censure or direct whatever course best serves JU.

As far as the rights of the individual, well, like everything else, if we don't like it, we can move on. Sure, we can protest, but in the end, the moderator has the last word.

[Hollarey]

Can I give everyone a great big hug??:w00t::D

[Asshat]

Can I give everyone a great big hug??:w00t::D

I'll take one! Line starts here!

[DoctorP]

On a lighter note, I think dk has become the president Bush of the forum. Stays the course regardless of public (forum) opinion. :D

Does that make me Alberto Gonzales??? I am not resigning! :crying:

[TheNoNamedOne]

Does that make me Alberto Gonzales??? I am not resiging! :crying:

lol. No, he resigned. You are still with the team.

Uchinamuku would like to make me to be Alberto Gonzales. That makes him and a few others here to be the Democratic Party calling for my head. lol.

But using the Bush analogy is an insult to dk. Just look at how stupid Bush is.

[DoctorP]

Does that make me Condoleeza then? I don't look good in pants suits and dresses! :w00t: I'm more of a boots and jeans type of guy! :army:

[dk]

Man, I don't wanna be Bush unless it's the first Bush. Make me Clinton. He's more of a ladies man.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Man, I don't wanna be Bush unless it's the first Bush. Make me Clinton. He's more of a ladies man.

Not sure if Clinton's standard of loyalty would live up to the point Uchinamuku wants to stick to you.

[dk]

Well, if the "do not waste dk's time" rule is broken enough by the same group of people.... over the same petty crap.... let's just say, I won't be having my time wasted by the same group of people over the same petty crap anymore. People can either learn to deal with things the way they are right now or move on.

[Muku]

Did you happen to notice that the last six replies on this thread were between you, DocP and TP?

Maybe locking and putting it in the archives for reference would be a good thing?

[DoctorP]

Did you happen to notice that the last six replies on this thread were between you, DocP and TP?

Maybe locking and putting it in the archives for reference would be a good thing?

...and it was appropriate because the insults were still flying...but we were insulting ourselves!:thumbup:

[DougP]

what are we talking about here? I thought this was the insult thread. Where are the insults:)

[dk]

Yo momma!!!

[TheNoNamedOne]

No reason to close this thread yet.

@DougP: The topic is about some accusing me of insulting them.

[P_chan]

your daddy

[DougP]

ha ha ha now that's what I'm talking about :)

[Muku]

...and it was appropriate because the insults were still flying...but we were insulting ourselves!:thumbup:

:thumbup:You know you guys are pretty insulting as it is, there is no need for you to have a dedicated thread for it:rolleyes:

We can insult you anywhere and everywhere. It is a pretty small island you know.:D

[Muku]

No reason to close this thread yet.

@DougP: The topic is about some accusing me of insulting them.
Dude it's past that, dont you think Doug can read? Hell that's pretty insulting as it is.

Loosen the panties a bit!:-| Blood needs to circulate to the thinking regions of your body!

[TheNoNamedOne]

... dont you think Doug can read?

Of course, I think he can.

Doug, were you insulted by me?

[TheNoNamedOne]

Loosen the panties a bit!:-| Blood needs to circulate to the thinking regions of your body!

LOL! Yes, indeed! Wouldn't want my thinking regions to start resorting to lazy indignance as defense in topics that are being debated. <snicker snicker>

[P_chan]

Dude it's past that, dont you think Doug can read? Hell that's pretty insulting as it is.

Loosen the panties a bit!:-| Blood needs to circulate to the thinking regions of your body!

Be careful Uchina, he's an instigator.

[DougP]

Just for the record I don't get insulted easily :) But I sure do like poking fun at things.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Just for the record I don't get insulted easily.

Good to go! Good to know.

Someone thought I said something that was "pretty insulting" to you.

[DoctorP]

Just for the record I don't get insulted easily :) But I sure do like poking fun at things.

I like poking things too Doug! :w00t:

[Boost]

Well, if the "do not waste dk's time" rule is broken enough by the same group of people.... over the same petty crap.... let's just say, I won't be having my time wasted by the same group of people over the same petty crap anymore. People can either learn to deal with things the way they are right now or move on.

Oh, threatening the ban hammer now eh?

[dk]

Oh, threatening the ban hammer now eh?
Only if rules are broken repeatedly.

Seriously, I doubt I'd ban for this, but you have to at least understand that from where I'm sitting, this is getting old. Really old. I've already decided TP is staying, yet you guys just do not give up. I've already said I'm not going to ditch TP, so really, what do you want me to do? Keep considering dropping TP even though I've already given my reasons?

Screw that.

That's what I call wasting time. I've got more important things to do! I just bought Final Fantasy 12 for my PS2 and this is taking away from it! /sarcasm.

[P_chan]

Only if rules are broken repeatedly.

Seriously, I doubt I'd ban for this, but you have to at least understand that from where I'm sitting, this is getting old. Really old. I've already decided TP is staying, yet you guys just do not give up. I've already said I'm not going to ditch TP, so really, what do you want me to do? Keep considering dropping TP even though I've already given my reasons?

Screw that.

That's what I call wasting time. I've got more important things to do! I just bought Final Fantasy 12 for my PS2 and this is taking away from it! /sarcasm.


I've never said get rid of TP, just that he should have been held accountable for what he said.

Final Fantasy 12 is a decent game. I got to the end of it but then stopped playing because I was busy with getting married. Just wait until you get the chance to fight the big ass T-Rex in the desert. Not the dragon looking one, but the T-Rex hidden in the sand storm. That guy is a bitch.

[Boost]

As far as the rights of the individual, well, like everything else, if we don't like it, we can move on. Sure, we can protest, but in the end, the moderator has the last word.

No doubt, but thought I would take TP's advice and use civil disobedience as a method to try and bring about change. :D

Ah well, it's all good fun and games.

[TheNoNamedOne]

Civil disobedience is for injustice. I have not been unjust here, either in regards to the rules or the position as mod.

[Boost]

Civil disobedience is for injustice. I have not been unjust here, either in regards to the rules or the position as mod.

Well others think differently, but that happens. What can ya do, but have a good time anyways?