Omoro Soshi

[Muku]

Who here is familiar with the Umuru Sushi (Omoro Soshi)?

I know one person is, however besides him?

[dk]

lol. Wonder if GT is familiar with it.

[Zanpa]

Omoro!!!!!!

[Asshat]

lol. Wonder if GT is familiar with it.

This would be a great discussion on an Okinawan board. Even then, few are versed enough in 400 year old island dialects to enjoy it. :)

[Muku]

lol. Wonder if GT is familiar with it.

Good point!

Do you know anyone with a copy or access to them?

[dk]

Good point!

Do you know anyone with a copy or access to them?
No, but I think Kari mentioned that he does.

[Muku]

No, but I think Kari mentioned that he does.

Ok thank you.

[Sex Wax]

Tukwase tiche mibai.

[Muku]

This would be a great discussion on an Okinawan board. Even then, few are versed enough in 400 year old island dialects to enjoy it. :)

Well whether or not you are aware of this I don't know but the Omoro Soshi are used in some HS and College and University Japanese Kanji koten classes. Koten being classical Japanese.

You dont need to know classical or Shuri-hougen which is what they were written in but is not commonly spoken today. Shuri hougen is widely considered to be the standard hougen on the island yet there are not all that many people that can speak it because it was also the language of the king as well. One would have had to been a part of the royal family or related to it or had business dealings with it to understand it.

The diplomatic language of the day was Chinese. So there would be any need to understand 400 year old plus hougen.

Also there is also a guide that comes with the books that gives the students a usable translation of the meaning of the hougen as well.

The Omoro Soshi can be purchased at just about any book store here in Okinawa.

[commando]

what about engrish?

[Muku]

what about engrish?

Believe it or not that is the goal.......:D

[commando]

Believe it or not that is the goal.......:D

Kool..you a translater?

[commando]

Can you translate it?

Kiyu ya uiche ugadi
Iruiru nu ashibi
Acha ya umukaji nu
Tachiyu Tumiba

[Muku]

Kool..you a translater?

I am in the learning process myself ......

[Muku]

Can you translate it?

Kiyu ya uiche ugadi
Iruiru nu ashibi
Acha ya umukaji nu
Tachiyu Tumiba

Question for you.......Where did this come from or where was it taken from?

I can read some of the words but it doesnt make sense without the rest.

[commando]

Question for you.......Where did this come from or where was it taken from?

I can read some of the words but it doesnt make sense without the rest.

its from a little book of peotry that lots of people dont know about. Omoro soshi.

It's wonderful to get together today
To play and enjoy life,
But, when I think of you tomorrow
I'll wonder how can I live without you?<3

[dk]

I would love to own an English translation.

[Sex Wax]

I would love to own an English translation.

Quit trolling or you will be infarcted.

[commando]

I would love to own an English translation.

Turtle books in the plaza house has them. Good cury too.

[dk]

Turtle books in the plaza house has them. Good cury too.
Woah, neat. So somebody actually translated it?! Man, I'm going to go pick up a copy tomorrow if that's the case!!! :w00t:

[Muku]

its from a little book of peotry that lots of people dont know about. Omoro soshi.

It's wonderful to get together today
To play and enjoy life,
But, when I think of you tomorrow
I'll wonder how can I live without you?<3

Ok you took it from the book itself thank you.....

In all honesty could you read it yourself without the translation?

[Muku]

its from a little book of peotry that lots of people dont know about. Omoro soshi.

It's wonderful to get together today
To play and enjoy life,
But, when I think of you tomorrow
I'll wonder how can I live without you?<3

Btw what was your point of asking if you already knew the answer?

Fool me once shame on you........

Fool me twice shame on me.....

Ok I took you at face value thinking you were sincere in asking your question about translating what you had written, my bad, believe me it won't happen again.

Enjoy your laugh.:)

[commando]

I got the book like 10 years ago or something. Your talking here like hardly nobody knows it but your a scholer or something. Thought you were taking the Mickey so threw a poem out there to see. I think what you wanta say is fool me once shame on me. Fool me twice wont get fooled again.

[OtisPMerriweather]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A

[dk]

I got the book like 10 years ago or something. Your talking here like hardly nobody knows it but your a scholer or something. Thought you were taking the Mickey so threw a poem out there to see. I think what you wanta say is fool me once shame on me. Fool me twice wont get fooled again.
This book has failed in its marketing then, because as far as I knew and as far as long time foreigners on Okinawa have known, this translation had not been done. I'm going to try to pick myself up a copy of it today. Also, I thought it was several volumes, not just one book.

Regardless, if this translation has actually been done, the author deserves a medal...

[P_chan]

we're talking about that old poem book that is probably in hougan?

If anyone knows of a website that sells the translated version I'd be interested

[dk]

we're talking about that old poem book that is probably in hougan?

If anyone knows of a website that sells the translated version I'd be interested
Several books of poetry in hougan detailing the history of the Ryukyu Kingdom.

[P_chan]

Several books of poetry in hougan detailing the history of the Ryukyu Kingdom.


Interesting, I heard about it a few times but never heard about a translated version.

[dk]

Interesting, I heard about it a few times but never heard about a translated version.
If it has been translated, it is a huge deal. I wonder if only a few poems have been translated or if you can actually get a translated copy of the entire volume. Going to go check. I really hope they still have copies...

[P_chan]

I checked on amazon and a few other websites but only found it in japanese.

[Muku]

I got the book like 10 years ago or something. Your talking here like hardly nobody knows it but your a scholer or something. Thought you were taking the Mickey so threw a poem out there to see. I think what you wanta say is fool me once shame on me. Fool me twice wont get fooled again.

Actually I KNOW that there are people here that are familiar with it and I also know that there is an interest in seeing it in English as well.

And it doesnt take a scholar to have an interest in history or language either.

And no the phrase as I wrote it is correct, next time you might learn something.....

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me (http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/fool+me+once,+shame+on+you;+fool+me+twice,+shame+o n+me.html)

You got your one shot, like I wrote I hope you enjoyed your laugh.

[Muku]

If it has been translated, it is a huge deal. I wonder if only a few poems have been translated or if you can actually get a translated copy of the entire volume. Going to go check. I really hope they still have copies...

I agree that it would be a huge deal.

The discussion came up recently about trying to translate more of it as a hobby or on going project for studying both English, Japanese and Hougen.

I have a friend that is interested in this and I am looking into seeing if there is more here besides the "one". I have a good friend that has translated some where in the neighborhood of 200 or so pulp fiction books into English and we were talking about starting this project. May never happen but who knows.

Also I don't want to purchase the set in Japanese not yet anyway.

[Asshat]

The discussion came up recently about trying to translate more of it as a hobby or on going project for studying both English, Japanese and Hougen.


I should say so. To translate it correctly, one would need to have a Japanese language degree with a minor in Anthropology.

It would exceed that which one's local spouse would be able to provide. Heck, I couldn't get the ex to correctly translate my 300 level Japanese text.

Maybe she was just dumb.

[DoctorP]

Maybe she was just dumb.

she married you right?

[gtlm2000]

Omoro Soshi? I forgot about this :D

[-Rudel-]

Shoot guys, I was at the library with my wife one day, I think I found some old Okinawan Umuru Sushi. Whne I get back, Ill have to look for it again.

[Muku]

I should say so. To translate it correctly, one would need to have a Japanese language degree with a minor in Anthropology.


Actually I dont think that is going to be a problem, first off the Japanese used from what I have been taught is not all that difficult in reality, it is mostly written in hiragana and uses simple kanji.

As I wrote earlier there is a guide attached as well in Japanese to explain the hougen.
My friend I referred to earlier is more than capable of handling the Japanese side and hougen as well.


It would exceed that which one's local spouse would be able to provide. Heck, I couldn't get the ex to correctly translate my 300 level Japanese text.

How true, that's not the intent though and my wife would have no interest in it either.

[commando]

Omoro Saushi (おもろさうし)


Perhaps the most interesting of all of the principle written historical resources is the Omoro Saushi, or Anthology of the Poems of Sentiments. Although the first volume was not compiled until 1531-32 (Volume II in 1613, and Volume III in 1623) the Omoro contains poems and songs describing life in Okinawa and Amami from as far back as the early 12th century. Prior to the 17th century, history was transferred orally from generation to generation in songs and poems and always in the various dialects of Ryukyuan. These provide clues to the nature of society and culture from the 12th to the 17th century. As such, they constitute the earliest tangible record of Okinawa's history. They were gathered together and committed to paper in the 17th century, but in such a way that scholars still struggle to find objective meaning in some of the texts. Scribes, often barely familiar with Ryukyuan, attempted to render original verses into Japanese. While dedicated scholars have spent decades trying to decipher meaning and have been able to offer interpretations for most of the verses there are still sections which remain largely indecipherable.


In the Miyako region the Omoro equivalent is the Aagu or Ayagu.


外間守善、 おもろさうし （Omoro saushi）. 東京:角川書店、1993. 本館沖縄開架B – 911/HO. Presents the original Omoro script above and Hokama’s modern rendering of its meaning in Japanese below. Hokama Shuzen is the most experienced living scholar of the Omoro. He joins a very short list of distinguished scholars who devoted a significant portion of their academic lives to understanding and disseminating to a wider audience the meaning of the Omoro. Previous luminaries include Iha Fuyu and Nakahara Zenchu.


仲原善忠, 外間守善著、 おもろさうし （Omoro saushi）. 東京:角川書店、1967.本館沖縄開架B – 911.03/NA. The best of all Omoro-related books. A two-volume set. The original text is included with Japanese translation and annotations. For background on the Omoro locate the excellent “[おもろさうし]総説” pages 13-53.


Sakihara Mitsugu, A Brief History of Early Okinawa based on the Omoro Soshi. Tokyo: Honpo Shoseki Press, 1987. 本館沖縄開架B – 911/SA. The best text in English explaining the meaning of selected passages of Omoro text in the context of a narrative history of early Okinawa.


The Omoro Saushi [external Wikipedia website - Japanese - retrieved 16th October 2007]

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/おもろさうし

[dk]

Ah, so the book you have is just bits and pieces that have been translated. It's not the entire collection?

[commando]

Ah, so the book you have is just bits and pieces that have been translated. It's not the entire collection?

I's right! Dude know nothing about this book he be preaching. My bit was from the kunkunsi, the textbook of okinawa song. boy didn know what that hogan was and didn know were it was from. Beware the local preacher man!:rolleyes:

[dk]

Talking about Muku? Pretty sure both of us would like to know about the book. If we knew about it, we wouldn't be looking for a translation, now would we?

[Asshat]

Actually I dont think that is going to be a problem, first off the Japanese used from what I have been taught is not all that difficult in reality, it is mostly written in hiragana and uses simple kanji.

I forgot about that Muku. You are correct of course, it would be written in original Japanese, (hiragana) so should be straight forward.

Perhaps the challenge would be the use of archaic forms of Hougen?

At any rate, it sounds like a very cool project.

One note here though. Hougen is not exactly the most "romantic" language out there as far as poetry is concerned. At some point, phonetic license will have to be considered in it's English equivalent.

Just a guess here, but translating from the Japanese version might yield a more beautiful work. Or is that the plan?

[Muku]

I's right! Dude know nothing about this book he be preaching. My bit was from the kunkunsi, the textbook of okinawa song. boy didn know what that hogan was and didn know were it was from. Beware the local preacher man!:rolleyes:
Boy Lmao here.....I am probably an idiot for responding to you here:rolleyes: more than like a waste of time.

I asked you a straight question whether or not you could read what was written there on your own. I never wrote anyway here that I spoke hougen well enough either you made that ASSumption, another thing the hougen in that song btw is not commonly known as well, it's not like people talk like they sing. I happened to ask someone, not my wife btw who speaks hougen rather well, and they didnt know it either, my advice to you is dont assume to "think".

Oh and you also conveniently skipped that question and just copied something from a book. Now your post is a copy and paste job minus the quote function?:rolleyes:

Beware the preacher man? Me thinks you need to look in the mirror, I told you ....fool me once, you are not getting a second chance, and you proved my suspicions right with your previous cut and paste job.:rolleyes:

[Asshat]

I happened to ask someone, not my wife btw who speaks hougen rather well, and they didnt know it either,

I sent the words to someone from Amami-O who didn't get it either. She got the same words I did.

[Muku]

I forgot about that Muku. You are correct of course, it would be written in original Japanese, (hiragana) so should be straight forward.

Perhaps the challenge would be the use of archaic forms of Hougen?

At any rate, it sounds like a very cool project.

One note here though. Hougen is not exactly the most "romantic" language out there as far as poetry is concerned. At some point, phonetic license will have to be considered in it's English equivalent.

Just a guess here, but translating from the Japanese version might yield a more beautiful work. Or is that the plan?

That is the plan, there are a few problems in getting started and the biggest is first starting.

Talking about it is one thing, doing it is another. :)

[commando]

So, we gots 2 guys here that don know about all the diffrent kinds of hogan. Itoman hogan and 3 kinda Naha hogan and Motobu hogan not counting all the diffrent hogans on the islands around here. I herd miyako has real diffrent hogan and then theirs the inbreeding problems. Ishigaki has even more hogans than miyako and maybe as much inbreds.
No surprize your buds cant read hogan from one specific area if their not from there. Yer gonna cut threw all the diffrent kinds of talk out there and decifer the old writings for us.:clear19:

[dk]

Shit, you can barely decipher English, lol.

[commando]

Yea u got me!! My bullshite detector works better than my spell checker!!!

[DougP]

Man, for a minute there I thought we were going to have another "I know more about Japan/Okinawa than you do!" war.

Another epic battle will be fought in the land of the rising sun. The RPG that's entertained a few, its the return of Gaijins Quest.

Watch as level 42 Super Gaijins that re classed to permanent residents, do battle to find out, who is more knowledgeable on all things Japan!!

Thou hast reached tatami room, What wouldst thou deau?

Open door

Thou hast entered tatami room, a Robert Baldwin appears!
http://www.japanprobe.com/2007/01/robert-baldwin.jpg
command?
You cannot run away!

The Robert Baldwin calls out, a Arudo Debito appears!
http://wakayama-jalt.org/images/Debito_Yunohana.jpg
command?
You cannot run away!

The Robert Baldwin casts the spell of Omoro Soshi !

Damage delt 9999 HP

Thou art dead....

[Muku]

So, we gots 2 guys here that don know about all the diffrent kinds of hogan. Itoman hogan and 3 kinda Naha hogan and Motobu hogan not counting all the diffrent hogans on the islands around here. I herd miyako has real diffrent hogan and then theirs the inbreeding problems. Ishigaki has even more hogans than miyako and maybe as much inbreds.
No surprize your buds cant read hogan from one specific area if their not from there. Yer gonna cut threw all the diffrent kinds of talk out there and decifer the old writings for us.:clear19:

Geez got 1 guy here that actually "thinks" and responds like he's a bigger smart ass than me on this board. Cool:thumbup:

FYI Geez you missed the sub-dialects of Shimajiri, Tomigusuku, all the little villages around the south end of the island and Kudaka the Island of the God's, and lets not forget Ishikawa, Katsuren, and that area, oh and how about Kushi, Nago, Nakajin, Ogimi, Higashi, and all the variations of "Pa, pi, pu, pe,po" too. :rolleyes:

[commando]

Suddenly a Gregory Clark appears to crush the pansies in his path.
http://www.gregoryclark.net/gregbw.jpg
The overwieght and unsitely nerds are slaughterd.
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/eo20090115gc.html
http://www.gregoryclark.net/
Ozzy ozzy ozzy oi oi oi!:first:

[DoctorP]

I've never seen this book